Re: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated.
I foster cats and kittens for my local humane society. Last week a 2 year old kitty died. She tested positive for FeLV. I got her as a kitten and at that time she tested negative. I have got quite a few cats that have been living with me as long as she has been with me. They all share the same food bowls and litterboxes. None are vaccinated against FeLV since every cat or kitten that comes into my house has been tested first. It terrified me when I found out she had been positive, especially since I have a 5 month old kitten that has been living with me since he was 8 weeks old. Today I had him and an older kitten that is about 8 months old tested at the vet's office. The older kitten has been with me since he was about 12 weeks old. They both came out negative. A couple weeks ago I had an adult that had been with me almost as long as the FeLV cat was with me and she tested negative as well. So, I tell you this Jannes to confirm what the others have said because it shows that not all cats contract FeLV and there is no need to panic right now. The vet felt that since those kittens and the cat that I had tested had been exposed to FeLV for so long that if they were going to get it they would have already gotten it. Especially the cat that had lived at my house with the FeLV + cat for a year and a half. A friend of mine has also had 3 or 4 FeLV positive cats living alongside her healthy cats for years. She gets her healthy cats vaccinated against FeLV and they have never contracted the disease from the FeLV cats. I would vaccinate your healthy cats now and let the FeLV + cat run around the basement and if she tests negative in a few months or test negative with the ELISA and IFA test I would let her in the rest of the house with the other cats. But, that's what I would do, not necessarily what you should do. Actually, I would trust the vaccine and after your healthy cats get their vaccination (it takes a series of two shots the first time) then I'd let all three hang together. But it's your cats and you have to make that decision. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 14:26:53 -0700 From: jgonza...@pacbell.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated. I realize now that I did not address the concern you posted about. I felt the need to educate you about the testing protocol for FELV because I would hate to see you cage a cat for 3 months that may not even be infected with the virus. You cannot consider a cat persistently viremic until they test positive on the IFA test. If it turns out the cat you rescued is really FELV positive, she is not going to transmit the virus to your other cats through some chance encounter. It would take prolonged contact with your other cats to infect them with the virus. Even if they had prolonged contact, it does not mean your other cats would get the virus. Some cats are able to build an immune response and fight off the virus. I rescued a cat over the summer that tested positive on the combo snap test and the ELISA test but tested negative on the IFA. Thirty days later, he tested negative on the snap test, the ELISA test and continued to test negative on the IFA test. As a precaution, we tested again 30 days later, and he continued to test negative on all three tests. His body built an immune defense and fought off the virus --- On Mon, 3/14/11, Jannes Taylor jannestay...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Jannes Taylor jannestay...@yahoo.com Subject: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated. To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Monday, March 14, 2011, 1:50 PM Hello, I rescued a stray two weeks ago. Took her to the vet a week ago and they said she was FELV positive. She was starving when I found her, but she has gained weight and is looking good. Her eyes just glisten and she seems healthy. The vet said she was about a year old. She only weighed six pounds last week. I did not have the heart to euthanize her when she is not suffering. However, I have three healthy cats upstairs and I live in constant fear that they will escape to the basement where this cat we now call Amber is staying. I keep her in a nice cage during most of the time and let her out to get her exercise in the basement about four hours per day. My husband is building her a 8' long x 4' wide x 6' tall cage so she will have more room I do hate keeping her caged up, but don't have a choice. She is very sweet and it is just a sad situation. I tried to find a home for her but no one seems to want a cat with her issues. We are trying to be very cautious
[Felvtalk] How long can FeLV stay dormant?
I've heard from some of the vets that FeLV can hide in the bone marrow for a while before ever showing up on a combo test. How long do you think that can happen before the combo tests shows positive? Anyone have experience with this? If the FeLV + cat and the other cat have been living together for a year and the healthy cat's combo test was negative after a year together with lots of exposure, is there a chance it is still hiding in the healthy cat's bone marrow and not showing up yet? It seems to me that a year would be enough time for the virus to show up in a test. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated.
Matter of fact, I have an FIV + cat living with me that hasn't contracted the FeLV. I'm not quite sure how that has happened because he should have gotten it right away. I'm going to have him tested a couple more times over the next few months to be sure. Maybe FeLV isn't as contagious as they say. I'm still shaking my head on that one. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 14:26:53 -0700 From: jgonza...@pacbell.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated. I realize now that I did not address the concern you posted about. I felt the need to educate you about the testing protocol for FELV because I would hate to see you cage a cat for 3 months that may not even be infected with the virus. You cannot consider a cat persistently viremic until they test positive on the IFA test. If it turns out the cat you rescued is really FELV positive, she is not going to transmit the virus to your other cats through some chance encounter. It would take prolonged contact with your other cats to infect them with the virus. Even if they had prolonged contact, it does not mean your other cats would get the virus. Some cats are able to build an immune response and fight off the virus. I rescued a cat over the summer that tested positive on the combo snap test and the ELISA test but tested negative on the IFA. Thirty days later, he tested negative on the snap test, the ELISA test and continued to test negative on the IFA test. As a precaution, we tested again 30 days later, and he continued to test negative on all three tests. His body built an immune defense and fought off the virus --- On Mon, 3/14/11, Jannes Taylor jannestay...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Jannes Taylor jannestay...@yahoo.com Subject: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated. To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Monday, March 14, 2011, 1:50 PM Hello, I rescued a stray two weeks ago. Took her to the vet a week ago and they said she was FELV positive. She was starving when I found her, but she has gained weight and is looking good. Her eyes just glisten and she seems healthy. The vet said she was about a year old. She only weighed six pounds last week. I did not have the heart to euthanize her when she is not suffering. However, I have three healthy cats upstairs and I live in constant fear that they will escape to the basement where this cat we now call Amber is staying. I keep her in a nice cage during most of the time and let her out to get her exercise in the basement about four hours per day. My husband is building her a 8' long x 4' wide x 6' tall cage so she will have more room I do hate keeping her caged up, but don't have a choice. She is very sweet and it is just a sad situation. I tried to find a home for her but no one seems to want a cat with her issues. We are trying to be very cautious regarding the other cats, but it is does make me fearful. I plan to have her rested in three months. I am so new to this situation, so any comments or ideas are much appreciated. Jannes ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] How long can FeLV stay dormant?
So you think FeLV would show up by 3 months after the first combo test? I'm just wondering what the maximum amount of time it can take to show up on a test once they've been exposed to FeLV. Someone recently said it can take up to a year before the test would indicate that the cat is positive. I wonder if that is true. Yeah, I've have heard that a cat with no symptoms could be a carrier of FeLV. FIV is harder to spread than FeLV according to everything I've read. It can only be spread by a deep bite wound. The saliva carrying the FIV virus has to go directly into the bloodstream. It cannot be spread by mutual grooming or sharing food bowls. So if the cat isn't a biter then there is no danger of him spreading FIV to other cats in the household. That's why I've never separated my FIV cat from the others. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 22:02:07 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] How long can FeLV stay dormant? Ideally, when a cat is tested for anything, FIV/FeLV, it should be isolated for three months and retested. However, rescue groups cannot do it because of space limitations, especially isolation areas. When a cat tests negative, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's true - the cat may just have been exposed to it, and it would show up 3 months later I've never had a FIV cat living with healthy ones, nor can I do it as a rescue organization. However, we had one cat that tested negative for FIV/FeLV, and many years later, started being illmy vet asked for some blood test at the lab, but they mistakenly tested for FIV - it turned out that she was positive. No one living with her ever became sick, to this day. She died about two years later at age 14/15. However, FIV is not as serious as FeLV, which seems increasingly more mysterious to me after having been reading all the posts about FeLV+ cats living with healthy ones. The two FeLV+ cats we have, are very healthy, exhibit absolutely no signs of any symptoms. I'm not sure what exactly it means when someone says that a FeLV cat with no symptoms could be a carrier; it can't be that the cat is perfectly healthy and can't mean that at some point, will not become symptomatic, does it? I do everything I can to keep them very healthy with supplements, good food, TLC, etc. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Maureen Olvey Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 8:11 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] How long can FeLV stay dormant? I've heard from some of the vets that FeLV can hide in the bone marrow for a while before ever showing up on a combo test. How long do you think that can happen before the combo tests shows positive? Anyone have experience with this? If the FeLV + cat and the other cat have been living together for a year and the healthy cat's combo test was negative after a year together with lots of exposure, is there a chance it is still hiding in the healthy cat's bone marrow and not showing up yet? It seems to me that a year would be enough time for the virus to show up in a test. I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn't..the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further. - Mark Twain ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated.
My FIV cat has never been vaccinated against FeLV which is why I assumed he would get it from the other kitty. Doesn't make sense. Oh well, I'm glad he didn't get it. Maureen To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org From: create_me_...@yahoo.com Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 02:26:16 + Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated. My FIV cat lived on and off for 10 years with FeLV cats never got it. Of coarse he was vaccinated. Beth Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com Sender: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 20:18:40 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated. Matter of fact, I have an FIV + cat living with me that hasn't contracted the FeLV. I'm not quite sure how that has happened because he should have gotten it right away. I'm going to have him tested a couple more times over the next few months to be sure. Maybe FeLV isn't as contagious as they say. I'm still shaking my head on that one. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 14:26:53 -0700 From: jgonza...@pacbell.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated. I realize now that I did not address the concern you posted about. I felt the need to educate you about the testing protocol for FELV because I would hate to see you cage a cat for 3 months that may not even be infected with the virus. You cannot consider a cat persistently viremic until they test positive on the IFA test. If it turns out the cat you rescued is really FELV positive, she is not going to transmit the virus to your other cats through some chance encounter. It would take prolonged contact with your other cats to infect them with the virus. Even if they had prolonged contact, it does not mean your other cats would get the virus. Some cats are able to build an immune response and fight off the virus. I rescued a cat over the summer that tested positive on the combo snap test and the ELISA test but tested negative on the IFA. Thirty days later, he tested negative on the snap test, the ELISA test and continued to test negative on the IFA test. As a precaution, we tested again 30 days later, and he continued to test negative on all three tests. His body built an immune defense and fought off the virus --- On Mon, 3/14/11, Jannes Taylor jannestay...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Jannes Taylor jannestay...@yahoo.com Subject: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated. To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Monday, March 14, 2011, 1:50 PM Hello, I rescued a stray two weeks ago. Took her to the vet a week ago and they said she was FELV positive. She was starving when I found her, but she has gained weight and is looking good. Her eyes just glisten and she seems healthy. The vet said she was about a year old. She only weighed six pounds last week. I did not have the heart to euthanize her when she is not suffering. However, I have three healthy cats upstairs and I live in constant fear that they will escape to the basement where this cat we now call Amber is staying. I keep her in a nice cage during most of the time and let her out to get her exercise in the basement about four hours per day. My husband is building her a 8' long x 4' wide x 6' tall cage so she will have more room I do hate keeping her caged up, but don't have a choice. She is very sweet and it is just a sad situation. I tried to find a home for her but no one seems to want a cat with her issues. We are trying to be very cautious regarding the other cats, but it is does make me fearful. I plan to have her rested in three months. I am so new to this situation, so any comments or ideas are much appreciated. Jannes ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman
Re: [Felvtalk] How long can FeLV stay dormant?
The reason I'm curious about it is because of my foster cats. Some people, including some vets, are saying that since they've been exposed to it this long and they tested negative recently that they should be fine and to go ahead and adopt them out. My 8 month old kitten came here when he was 8 weeks old so he's been exposed to FeLV for 6 months. I'm not sure how many cats in my house may have it, but the one that died last week did test positive which is how I found out about it. So far, I have only tested 3 of my other cats so far and they were negative so I really don't know yet if any others in my house have it. So as far as the 8 month old kitten goes, I wonder if that's enough time for it to show up on a combo test. I don't want to adopt him to someone with a cat and then their cat catch it from him. If I were the person looking to adopt a cat and I knew for sure the kitty had been exposed to FeLV even if he tested negative yesterday I probably wouldn't adopt him. Anyone have any opinions? Should I put him up for adoption? “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 14:06:29 -0700 From: westnint...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] How long can FeLV stay dormant? Good for you. Mine r healthy too. If it an broke ,don't fix it. It the cat tests neg. why wait for it to be positive? regards, CAthy --- On Mon, 3/14/11, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: From: Natalie at...@optonline.net Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] How long can FeLV stay dormant? To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Monday, March 14, 2011, 10:02 PM Ideally, when a cat is tested for anything, FIV/FeLV, it should be isolated for three months and retested. However, rescue groups cannot do it because of space limitations, especially isolation areas. When a cat tests negative, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's true - the cat may just have been exposed to it, and it would show up 3 months later I've never had a FIV cat living with healthy ones, nor can I do it as a rescue organization. However, we had one cat that tested negative for FIV/FeLV, and many years later, started being illmy vet asked for some blood test at the lab, but they mistakenly tested for FIV - it turned out that she was positive. No one living with her ever became sick, to this day. She died about two years later at age 14/15. However, FIV is not as serious as FeLV, which seems increasingly more mysterious to me after having been reading all the posts about FeLV+ cats living with healthy ones. The two FeLV+ cats we have, are very healthy, exhibit absolutely no signs of any symptoms. I'm not sure what exactly it means when someone says that a FeLV cat with no symptoms could be a carrier; it can't be that the cat is perfectly healthy and can't mean that at some point, will not become symptomatic, does it? I do everything I can to keep them very healthy with supplements, good food, TLC, etc. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Maureen Olvey Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 8:11 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] How long can FeLV stay dormant? I've heard from some of the vets that FeLV can hide in the bone marrow for a while before ever showing up on a combo test. How long do you think that can happen before the combo tests shows positive? Anyone have experience with this? If the FeLV + cat and the other cat have been living together for a year and the healthy cat's combo test was negative after a year together with lots of exposure, is there a chance it is still hiding in the healthy cat's bone marrow and not showing up yet? It seems to me that a year would be enough time for the virus to show up in a test. I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn't..the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further. - Mark Twain ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo
Re: [Felvtalk] How long can FeLV stay dormant?
I think you're right. I couldn't adopt out to a person without telling them everything. It's not right to do that and I would feel so guilty. Then it's their decision as to whether they want him or not. The kitty did test negative yesterday so there's hope he won't or doesn't have it but time will tell. Yeah, I think I'll just try to find him a home as the only cat. If I can't find him a home, he can stay with me. I've already decided to keep most of my fosters since I found out so what's one more as they say! Thanks for your input. You kind of confirmed what I had been thinking. I just wanted to hear it from someone else. I wish I had known the kitty that had it was positive before she died. She didn't show any symtoms until the day before she died. Her breathing was kind of shallow and rapid so I took her to the vet and they found that she was bleeding in her chest and she died while we were talking about it. They did the necropsy and saw the huge tumor in her chest and the vet said it ruptured a vein or something around her heart. The vet was curious about it because the kitty was not yet two years old so she did a combo test and it came out with a strong positive for FeLV. If I had known I wouldn't have ever taken in any more fosters but I had no clue. She tested negative as a kitten and never looked sick so I had no reason to suspect it. It sucks. I love them all but she was special to me. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 20:21:50 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] How long can FeLV stay dormant? That does present a problem - that's precisely the reason why I cannot mix the cats. I cannot take the chance that a cat getting adopted from us might possibly infect an adopter's cat. If they were all here to stay, I would definitely do it. I also do not mix FIV with FeLV - don't want to expose each to yet another disease - not fair to them, as long I have separate areas for each group. Follow your instinctif you believe that the kitten would be happy being the only one in a household, try to find one without another cat. I would not take the chance with someone's cat, and it wouldn't be fair NOT to tell an adopter the situation, right? -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Maureen Olvey Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 5:50 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] How long can FeLV stay dormant? The reason I'm curious about it is because of my foster cats. Some people, including some vets, are saying that since they've been exposed to it this long and they tested negative recently that they should be fine and to go ahead and adopt them out. My 8 month old kitten came here when he was 8 weeks old so he's been exposed to FeLV for 6 months. I'm not sure how many cats in my house may have it, but the one that died last week did test positive which is how I found out about it. So far, I have only tested 3 of my other cats so far and they were negative so I really don't know yet if any others in my house have it. So as far as the 8 month old kitten goes, I wonder if that's enough time for it to show up on a combo test. I don't want to adopt him to someone with a cat and then their cat catch it from him. If I were the person looking to adopt a cat and I knew for sure the kitty had been exposed to FeLV even if he tested negative yesterday I probably wouldn't adopt him. Anyone have any opinions? Should I put him up for adoption? I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn't..the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further. - Mark Twain Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 14:06:29 -0700 From: westnint...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] How long can FeLV stay dormant? Good for you. Mine r healthy too. If it an broke ,don't fix it. It the cat tests neg. why wait for it to be positive? regards, CAthy --- On Mon, 3/14/11, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: From: Natalie at...@optonline.net Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] How long can FeLV stay dormant? To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Monday, March 14, 2011, 10:02 PM Ideally, when a cat is tested for anything, FIV/FeLV, it should be isolated for three months and retested. However, rescue groups cannot do it because of space limitations, especially isolation areas
Re: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated.
I love him already. Please tell me you live near Atlanta. If so, he's my new vet!!! “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 21:05:37 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated. My veterinarian is co-founder of AVAR (Association of Veterinarians for Animal Rights), now under the umbrella of HSUS. He refuses to declaw cats, crop ears and dock tails on dogs, uses alternative medicine and acupuncture. Yes, I am lucky to have him just a few minutes from where we live - he always make time for me, even when office hours are filled. But then, again, I've been quite a good customer with our own dogs and cats since 1984 and with the cat rescue group since 1992. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Diane Rosenfeldt Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 8:43 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated. Sounds like you've got a great vet there. Congrats! Diane R. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Natalie Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 7:27 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated. My vet always treats a cat with health problems with vitamin injections for about a week or two - vitamin B12, C, etc. - it builds up their immune system a bit before surgery. We call it The Cocktail. You can't imagine how many cats' lives have been saved with these cocktails, practically coming back from the dead! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated.
Ha, ha - for a vet like him it might be worth the move! I don't think my husband would like it though! “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 21:36:33 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated. No, sorry - we are in Greenwich, CT! Blue Cross Animal Hospital! But how about moving here? -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Maureen Olvey Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 9:16 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated. I love him already. Please tell me you live near Atlanta. If so, he's my new vet!!! I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn't..the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further. - Mark Twain Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 21:05:37 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated. My veterinarian is co-founder of AVAR (Association of Veterinarians for Animal Rights), now under the umbrella of HSUS. He refuses to declaw cats, crop ears and dock tails on dogs, uses alternative medicine and acupuncture. Yes, I am lucky to have him just a few minutes from where we live - he always make time for me, even when office hours are filled. But then, again, I've been quite a good customer with our own dogs and cats since 1984 and with the cat rescue group since 1992. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Diane Rosenfeldt Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 8:43 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated. Sounds like you've got a great vet there. Congrats! Diane R. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Natalie Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 7:27 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated. My vet always treats a cat with health problems with vitamin injections for about a week or two - vitamin B12, C, etc. - it builds up their immune system a bit before surgery. We call it The Cocktail. You can't imagine how many cats' lives have been saved with these cocktails, practically coming back from the dead! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated.
I bet it is beautiful. I lived in NH for 5 years and loved it. New England is gorgeous. He's not much of a traveler though. He likes to visit other places but I can't imagine him ever moving outside of GA. He's close to his family and friends so that's probably a lot of the reason. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 22:12:34 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated. I love that mark Twain quote! What would your husband have against Greenwich? It's beautiful here, great ferries to island beaches, beachesclose to NY City -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Maureen Olvey Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 9:43 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated. Ha, ha - for a vet like him it might be worth the move! I don't think my husband would like it though! I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn't..the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further. - Mark Twain ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] How long can FeLV stay dormant?
My reply to this got bounced because it was too big a file but I want to say it again just in case it doesn't get posted to the list. I think it's important for foster parents to know that one combo test cannot be trusted. I have had every cat or kitten that came into my house combo tested before I ever exposed them to the rest of the cats. From the first cat I ever took in to the very last. They all showed negative for FeLV before I took them. Even the kitty that died was negative on her first combo test that was done almost two years ago. It's kind of scary to know that. You could take in a FeLV positive kitty that tested negative on her first test and not even know it. We have that statement in our adoption contract that not all diseases will show at the time of the first test so we cannot 100% guarantee the health of each cat. But it's so easy to assume that if they tested negative once then it's true. I learned my lesson. Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 21:43:23 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] How long can FeLV stay dormant? The moral of the story is that all cats coming into a home or foster home where there are other cats, must be combo tested! It's not a huge expense in the big scheme of things, but necessary! That's how I always feel - if a good home cannot be found, the cats stays hereand sometimes, a really good adopter who doesn't necessarily want a kitten comes along and wants an older cat! It's so much harder parting with a cat that has been here for a while than parting with kittens. I have also learned a hard lesson to never separate two cats that are really good friends! Good luck with finding a good home! Natalie -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Maureen Olvey Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 8:59 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] How long can FeLV stay dormant? I think you're right. I couldn't adopt out to a person without telling them everything. It's not right to do that and I would feel so guilty. Then it's their decision as to whether they want him or not. The kitty did test negative yesterday so there's hope he won't or doesn't have it but time will tell. Yeah, I think I'll just try to find him a home as the only cat. If I can't find him a home, he can stay with me. I've already decided to keep most of my fosters since I found out so what's one more as they say! Thanks for your input. You kind of confirmed what I had been thinking. I just wanted to hear it from someone else. I wish I had known the kitty that had it was positive before she died. She didn't show any symtoms until the day before she died. Her breathing was kind of shallow and rapid so I took her to the vet and they found that she was bleeding in her chest and she died while we were talking about it. They did the necropsy and saw the huge tumor in her chest and the vet said it ruptured a vein or something around her heart. The vet was curious about it because the kitty was not yet two years old so she did a combo test and it came out with a strong positive for FeLV. If I had known I wouldn't have ever taken in any more fosters but I had no clue. She tested negative as a kitten and never looked sick so I had no reason to suspect it. It sucks. I love them all but she was special to me. I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn't..the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further. - Mark Twain Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 20:21:50 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] How long can FeLV stay dormant? That does present a problem - that's precisely the reason why I cannot mix the cats. I cannot take the chance that a cat getting adopted from us might possibly infect an adopter's cat. If they were all here to stay, I would definitely do it. I also do not mix FIV with FeLV - don't want to expose each to yet another disease - not fair to them, as long I have separate areas for each group. Follow your instinctif you believe that the kitten would be happy being the only one in a household, try to find one without another cat. I would not take the chance with someone's cat, and it wouldn't be fair NOT to tell an adopter the situation, right? ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated.
Alright you two - cut it out! It's only been a week and two days since my two year old cat died so it doesn't take much right now to get me bawling like a baby. No, really you guys aren't upsetting me. I think about her a lot anyway. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 15:00:01 -0700 From: jannestay...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated. I can relate to that! I've had quite a few cats in my 52 years. You never really forget no matter how long it has been. Jannes From: Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wed, March 16, 2011 4:30:13 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated. You're among like-minded people in this group - just this afternoon, I was sitting with a few cats in my lap, a dog next to me, watching the horrors happening in Japan. I looked over at one of our cats who looks just like our old Houdini who die in Novembersuddenly, I started tearfully remembering details of almost ALL the cats that have died in my lifetimenow, I have a headache. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Jannes Taylor Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 4:56 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated. Thanks, Bonnie, Yes, Amber and I have a connection now but I am very tender hearted and know it will be painful if her health gets bad. We had to have our Great Dane put down five years ago and I STILL get teary eyed about that. He had cardio myothapy and an parasitic infection. It does warm my heart to see Amber safe, well fed, and adjusting to her new surroundings. She won't play yet, but maybe that will come.. Jannes ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Losing cats
Just goes to show how wonderful you guys are to have loved the fur children that much that you never forget them! I hope I'm always compassionate like that. Having a tender heart like that is a good quality although it does mean you hurt more than some other people. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 06:14:57 -0400 From: felineres...@kvinet.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Losing cats On 03-16, Jannes Taylor wrote: I can relate to that! I've had quite a few cats in my 52 years. You never really forget no matter how long it has been. Jannes When you get to age 78, like I am, you'll have lost way too many cats.. I still feel sad about cats I lost 30 or 40 years ago. Lorrie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Losing cats
That's so cute! “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain From: ho...@sonic.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 08:38:44 -0700 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Losing cats I have a lineage of catsthat is, they have known one another going back to 1982. So, if they do tell stories, they can tell eachother about Autumn, who knew Shasta, who knew Stormy and up to present day! For some silly reason, I like the idea! ~Bonnie - Original Message - From: Lorrie felineres...@kvinet.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 3:14 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Losing cats On 03-16, Jannes Taylor wrote: I can relate to that! I've had quite a few cats in my 52 years. You never really forget no matter how long it has been. Jannes When you get to age 78, like I am, you'll have lost way too many cats.. I still feel sad about cats I lost 30 or 40 years ago. Lorrie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated.
Now I have a question and need advice. My rescue just took in a mama cat and 4 young kittens that are still nursing. Just our luck the mama cat tested positive for FeLV. My recommendation was not to put any of them down, but to wait a few months to see what happens. Maybe the mama cat can kick the virus. My question is about the kittens. I know they have probably already gotten the virus from the mama cat, but is there any chance at all that they haven't gotten it? One vet said maybe we should separate the kittens from the mama just in case they haven't picked the virus up yet. What do you guys think? Would that be possible - for them not to have it already, I mean? I know since the kittens are only about 4 weeks old their chances aren't too good but we want to do the best we can for them and save them if possible. We've got people that can bottle feed if they need to be taken from the mom. But I don't want to separate them if there's no point to it. What do you guys think? Also, seems like I've heard you guys mentioning vitamins. Was it B vitamins? Would that be a good idea for the mama cat? “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain From: drosenfe...@wi.rr.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 18:39:13 -0500 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated. Generally spay/neuter is a good idea in most cases -- much less uncomfortable for the cat, since heat is usually excruciating for them. But this is a reason you should seek out a vet familiar with FeLV -- they should be able to judge whether Amber would be too stressed by the procedure, or figure out ways that she won't be (kitty Prozac?). Diane R. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated.
A, good point. Hadn't thought about that. Would we get the results of those tests pretty quick? “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 14:40:00 -0700 From: jgonza...@pacbell.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated. If your vet did the FELV/FIV combo snap test on the mother, beware as this test can produce false positive readings due to cross-reactivity. Please test her via ELISA sent to the lab and if that comes back positive, test via IFA. Or, you can go straight to the IFA test. --- On Fri, 3/18/11, Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com wrote: From: Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated. To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Friday, March 18, 2011, 2:27 PM Now I have a question and need advice. My rescue just took in a mama cat and 4 young kittens that are still nursing. Just our luck the mama cat tested positive for FeLV. My recommendation was not to put any of them down, but to wait a few months to see what happens. Maybe the mama cat can kick the virus. My question is about the kittens. I know they have probably already gotten the virus from the mama cat, but is there any chance at all that they haven't gotten it? One vet said maybe we should separate the kittens from the mama just in case they haven't picked the virus up yet. What do you guys think? Would that be possible - for them not to have it already, I mean? I know since the kittens are only about 4 weeks old their chances aren't too good but we want to do the best we can for them and save them if possible. We've got people that can bottle feed if they need to be taken from the mom. But I don't want to separate them if there's no point to it. What do you guys think? Also, seems like I've heard you guys mentioning vitamins. Was it B vitamins? Would that be a good idea for the mama cat? “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain From: drosenfe...@wi.rr.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 18:39:13 -0500 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated. Generally spay/neuter is a good idea in most cases -- much less uncomfortable for the cat, since heat is usually excruciating for them. But this is a reason you should seek out a vet familiar with FeLV -- they should be able to judge whether Amber would be too stressed by the procedure, or figure out ways that she won't be (kitty Prozac?). Diane R. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated.
Why are you thinking I should go ahead and separate them from mama cat? Is that so her milk will hurry and dry up so we can get her spayed or is there another reason? Oh, there's another foster that has the family right now. I'm hoping to keep it that way! I thought I would be able to get out of fostering since I found out one of my kitties had FeLV. As much as I love fostering I was looking forward to a break. I had already told the rest of the board that I wouldn't be able to foster anymore. Figures we'd take in a FeLV + kitty right after my discovery. Somehow I have a feeling that at some point I'll end up with the family. So much for taking a break from fostering! Actually, I'd rather take a break from work not fostering but that's not an option. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 14:58:37 -0700 From: cline...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated. Maureen, the kittens are probably already FeLV+. I would separate them from the Momma cat. They are old enough to eat canned kitten food mixed with a little warm water and KMR. When I rescued a momma a litter of 4 all were positive. The kittens lived 12-14 months. Momma lived for 4 yrs. But they had a good life for as long as they were with me. I tried B12, folic acid, brewers yeast, L-lysine and Mega C. Didn't help my kittens but yours could be different. Thank you for taking this family in. Be sure to spay the Momma immediately. Sharyl --- On Fri, 3/18/11, Maureen Olive molvey...@hotmail.com wrote: From: Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated. To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Friday, March 18, 2011, 5:27 PM Now I have a question and need advice. My rescue just took in a mama cat and 4 young kittens that are still nursing. Just our luck the mama cat tested positive for FeLV. My recommendation was not to put any of them down, but to wait a few months to see what happens. Maybe the mama cat can kick the virus. My question is about the kittens. I know they have probably already gotten the virus from the mama cat, but is there any chance at all that they haven't gotten it? One vet said maybe we should separate the kittens from the mama just in case they haven't picked the virus up yet. What do you guys think? Would that be possible - for them not to have it already, I mean? I know since the kittens are only about 4 weeks old their chances aren't too good but we want to do the best we can for them and save them if possible. We've got people that can bottle feed if they need to be taken from the mom. But I don't want to separate them if there's no point to it. What do you guys think? Also, seems like I've heard you guys mentioning vitamins. Was it B vitamins? Would that be a good idea for the mama cat? “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain From: drosenfe...@wi.rr.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 18:39:13 -0500 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated. Generally spay/neuter is a good idea in most cases -- much less uncomfortable for the cat, since heat is usually excruciating for them. But this is a reason you should seek out a vet familiar with FeLV -- they should be able to judge whether Amber would be too stressed by the procedure, or figure out ways that she won't be (kitty Prozac?). Diane R. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated.
Yeah, I figured there's a 99% chance the kittens have already gotten enough exposure to the virus to catch it. I did recommend the other tests though like you said. Are the tests very expensive? “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 15:16:38 -0700 From: jgonza...@pacbell.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated. Since it takes 2 to 4 weeks after exposure for the virus to circulate in the bloodstream, chances are that the kittens are infected if the mother cat is truly infected with the virus. You will not know if the mother is truly infected with the virus until you do more testing. You can test for FELV at any age so if you want to know if the kittens have the virus, have them tested for FELV. If it were me, I would test the mother cat via the ELISA test sent to the lab, then do the IFA test. Many of us in rescue have and continue to get false positive readings for the FELV/FIV snap combo test. I see absolutely no reason to separate the kittens from their mother. If mom is infected, then it is likely that kittens have been exposed to the virus since birth or in-vitro. --- On Fri, 3/18/11, Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com wrote: From: Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated. To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Friday, March 18, 2011, 2:27 PM Now I have a question and need advice. My rescue just took in a mama cat and 4 young kittens that are still nursing. Just our luck the mama cat tested positive for FeLV. My recommendation was not to put any of them down, but to wait a few months to see what happens. Maybe the mama cat can kick the virus. My question is about the kittens. I know they have probably already gotten the virus from the mama cat, but is there any chance at all that they haven't gotten it? One vet said maybe we should separate the kittens from the mama just in case they haven't picked the virus up yet. What do you guys think? Would that be possible - for them not to have it already, I mean? I know since the kittens are only about 4 weeks old their chances aren't too good but we want to do the best we can for them and save them if possible. We've got people that can bottle feed if they need to be taken from the mom. But I don't want to separate them if there's no point to it. What do you guys think? Also, seems like I've heard you guys mentioning vitamins. Was it B vitamins? Would that be a good idea for the mama cat? “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain From: drosenfe...@wi.rr.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 18:39:13 -0500 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated. Generally spay/neuter is a good idea in most cases -- much less uncomfortable for the cat, since heat is usually excruciating for them. But this is a reason you should seek out a vet familiar with FeLV -- they should be able to judge whether Amber would be too stressed by the procedure, or figure out ways that she won't be (kitty Prozac?). Diane R. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated.
That's what I was thinking the IFA costs. That's not bad at all. Definitely worth it. I live on the outskirts of Atlanta. In the old days I think our group would have considered euthanasia but since me and some other folks have been around they are more open-minded and don't listen to the vets. I'm kind of a b and always speak my mind about doing research and not trusting everything the vet says. I've gotten burned that way when I had my Basset Hound. When I first started with the humane society I was only working with ferals and strays. I got tired of people telling me that any cat that tested positive for FIV or FeLV one time should be put down without question. They were saying that even the tame ones that I found in my feral colonies should be put down and not taken in and fostered. And oh God, if one cat had an injury, even just a small injury that got a little infected, and the cat had FIV some vets said that it would never heal so I should just go ahead and put the cat down. Even if the cat belonged to someone else they'd say that. Another lady and I started doing research and webinars and going to shelter medicine seminars to be more informed. Funny how a little knowledge can make some big changes. Still though, if they are all definitely positive there will be some challenges. We don't have a lot of foster homes and I can't think of any that would take these guys in to give them a forever home. I told one lady her and I would be taking a road trip to find a sanctuary for them. I don't think there's a place in GA that takes in FeLV cats. I really don't know what we'll do. I'm probably the only one willing to take them in but I've got so many cats already that won't be able to be adopted because they've been exposed to FeLV that I'd rather not take anymore. But, I'm such a sucker that if it came to it I'd end up taking them versus putting them down. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 15:35:20 -0700 From: jgonza...@pacbell.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated. It depends on the vet and what they charge. I am in Los Angeles and most of the vets I know of charge about $100 for the IFA and about $50 or $60 for the ELISA test sent to the lab. I would assume your rescue group has a vet where they can get a discount. Our rescue group pays $80 for the IFA and $27 for the ELISA sent to the lab. I hope your rescue group is not considering euthanasia if the mom and kits test positive. What city are you in? --- On Fri, 3/18/11, Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com wrote: From: Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated. To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Friday, March 18, 2011, 3:24 PM Yeah, I figured there's a 99% chance the kittens have already gotten enough exposure to the virus to catch it. I did recommend the other tests though like you said. Are the tests very expensive? “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 15:16:38 -0700 From: jgonza...@pacbell.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated. Since it takes 2 to 4 weeks after exposure for the virus to circulate in the bloodstream, chances are that the kittens are infected if the mother cat is truly infected with the virus. You will not know if the mother is truly infected with the virus until you do more testing. You can test for FELV at any age so if you want to know if the kittens have the virus, have them tested for FELV. If it were me, I would test the mother cat via the ELISA test sent to the lab, then do the IFA test. Many of us in rescue have and continue to get false positive readings for the FELV/FIV snap combo test. I see absolutely no reason to separate the kittens from their mother. If mom is infected, then it is likely that kittens have been exposed to the virus since birth or in-vitro. --- On Fri, 3/18/11, Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com wrote: From: Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Any advice appreciated. To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Friday, March 18, 2011, 2:27 PM Now I have a question and need advice. My rescue just took in a mama cat and 4 young kittens that are still nursing. Just our luck the mama cat tested
[Felvtalk] Yet another question.....
I've mentioned my kitty Two Face earlier because she died two weeks ago and when they did the necropsy they found out she had a huge tumor and was FeLV +. Since then I've had a few of my other kitties tested with the combo/snap test at the vet's office. All have come out negative so far, thank the Lord for that. These other kitties that have tested negative lived with Two Face for over a year. Sharing litterboxes, food bowls and all that stuff. I would think that would mean that they had enough exposure to the virus to get it in their system and that they either extinguished the virus or put it into a dormant status. Is that a reasonable assumption? My main question now is should I give them a FeLV vaccination. If they did get the virus in their system and extinguished it then they're immune for life, right? If so, there's no need for a vaccination. Is it possible with all that exposure that they didn't get enough of the virus into their system to do any harm? If that's the case then I should vaccinate them? I just don't know how they could not have gotten enough exposure since they lived together and shared everything for over a year. Thoughts? “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Yet another question.....
I have a friend that has had FeLV + cats for years. I remember her saying that some lived until their early teens and some died at 9 or 10. Either way, it's a long time. I'll check with her about it but I think she said some died from diseases that typically don't relate to FeLV like renal failure or something that happens to a lot of cats. She doesn't check e-mail every single day but I'll e-mail her and let you guys know what she says. Oh, she gives them interferon every day too. She's got FIV cats too so all the FeLV cats and the FIV cats get interferon every day. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 16:56:46 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Yet another question. And I also wonder about adult cats that are FeLV+, and perfectly healthy. I've never had adults with no symptoms, only a kitten that died years ago. Eliot Spitty is about 5 yrs old, and Mr. Tux about 6 yrs old. I wonder how that will work out in the coming years - they get supplements, good food, etc. Has anyone had that experience, and how long did it take, if at all, before the cats started getting symptoms or related cancers? -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Gloria B. Lane Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 4:01 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Yet another question. One thought process that I've run into is that a healthy adult cat (FELV negative) has a hearty enough immune system to successfully deal with the FELV virus without acquiring it. I can't see that vaccinating them at this point would be of value. Just my 2c Gloria From: Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com Date: March 21, 2011 12:07:44 PM CDT To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Yet another question. Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org I've mentioned my kitty Two Face earlier because she died two weeks ago and when they did the necropsy they found out she had a huge tumor and was FeLV +. Since then I've had a few of my other kitties tested with the combo/snap test at the vet's office. All have come out negative so far, thank the Lord for that. These other kitties that have tested negative lived with Two Face for over a year. Sharing litterboxes, food bowls and all that stuff. I would think that would mean that they had enough exposure to the virus to get it in their system and that they either extinguished the virus or put it into a dormant status. Is that a reasonable assumption? My main question now is should I give them a FeLV vaccination. If they did get the virus in their system and extinguished it then they're immune for life, right? If so, there's no need for a vaccination. Is it possible with all that exposure that they didn't get enough of the virus into their system to do any harm? If that's the case then I should vaccinate them? I just don't know how they could not have gotten enough exposure since they lived together and shared everything for over a year. Thoughts? I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn't..the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further. - Mark Twain ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
I see there are a lot of people that take care of ferals and get tired of hearing all the reasons they should be killed, not TNR'd. My answer is always Even if they do kill a lot of birds, TNR is the way to reduce the population so TNR is the best way to save the birds. I didn't know that about glass windows. That's very interesting. I totally advocate keeping your cats indoors though because I live in a town outside of Atlanta but it's a busy small town and I've lost so many ferals to coyotes. Some to cars, but most to coyotes or dogs. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 17:03:06 -0400 From: ti...@mindspring.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Actually, the leading killers are glass windows...particularly taller structures .car winfshields. But cats are the only bird predators in urban aareas, so they of course would be the largest killer of birds. There are other natural predators in rural areas...including other birds like owls, hawks, etc Sent from my Samsung Epic™ 4G Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net wrote: In the newspaper today: House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds. The American Bird Conservancy estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by cats. About 400,000 are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the number killed by cats). So now we have another reason to keep our cats indoors -- not only for their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD population! Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors! ~Bonnie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
From that study in CA, the American Bird Conservancy was saying that the answer was to trap and kill the cats. That's the part that really irritated me. Yeah, cats killed a lot of those birds. The little tigers will kill most anything that moves. It's their instinct. But the cats got there somehow and even before people fed them they were there and multiplying like crazy. Because of a lot of different reasons and a lot of studies, Trap-Neuter-Return the only way that will have the long term results of cutting the population of free-roaming cats way down. But, those bird brains just want to kill all the cats as though that will fix everything. I like birds and I like the people in the ABC, and I really don't think of them as bird brains I was just being funny, but the idiots that run the thing and making those comments about killing the cats are short-sighted. Everytime I hear something from the ABC I just get upset before even knowing what they're going to say because I know how they feel about free-roaming cats and I know they hate TNR. Obviously, I'm a big advocate of TNR. What I'd really like to say to them is that I wonder how many of those birds are killed when they build the condos and board walks and everything else along the beaches. They need to spend their time fighting that battle before trying to have the cats killed. Maybe they do fight those battles too, but that's my angry comment, and I know it doesn't change the fact that the cats kill the poor birds, but sometimes you just want to tell people off. Oh well, that's my middle of the night rantings about the ABC. I don't like cats killing birds, mice, chipmonks, or even the poor snakes and keeping them inside is the best thing for the cats too. I don't mind using the cat being killers argument to motivate people keeping their pets indoors but leave the ferals alone and don't start talking about killing them. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 16:56:46 -0700 From: hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Yes, the number one cause of bird extinction is habitat loss, but cats are #2. There's a well-known study that was conducted on a couple of adjacent beaches in California, one with a feral cat population and one without. The beach that is home to feral cats has no birds - remember that most shorebirds are ground nesters - while the cat-free beach supports a healthy bird population. Of course, our birds have natural predators - some raptors such as red-tailed hawks prey mostly on birds. Kingsnakes and rat snakes are known for feasting on eggs and hatchlings. But this is natural predation so things are kept in balance. Throw in a highly efficient predator such as a cat and the balance changes. --- On Tue, 3/22/11, SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Tuesday, March 22, 2011, 4:36 PM Sorry but that information is outdated or biased. The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or construction for same. Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325 SomeWhere Sam From: Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 2:37:38 PM Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors In the newspaper today: House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds. The American Bird Conservancy estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by cats. About 400,000 are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the number killed by cats). So now we have another reason to keep our cats indoors -- not only for their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD population! Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors! ~Bonnie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
You can also take it further and reiterate that humans are the #1 killers of birds because of the dummies that let their un-altered pet cats run around outside and breed and have kittens everywhere, not just because of the habitat destruction that we do. I think where I live in GA some of the rodents are getting a reprive because all the coyotes who would normally eat some of the rodents are getting full on my feral cats. It's so sad. I don't hate the coyotes for doing it (just like I don't hate or blame cats for killing other small prey) but it breaks my heart everytime a feral goes missing. All points always come back to the main topic of the importance of keeping the cats indoors (and getting them fixed). All we can do is spread the message and hope it makes a difference. And it my part of the world it has made a huge difference. When I was a kid, no one contemplated keeping a cat indoors it's whole life. But now, more and more people are. I can tell by the people I meet at our adoptions. Things are changing - we just have a long way to go still. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 18:23:12 -0700 From: sin...@sbcglobal.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors LOL Humans are a non-native, introduced and subsidized predators.G This is like expecting pet owners to spay or neuter their pets, interesting idea, one which I would love to see, but seeing and knowing human nature is not going to happen in my lifetime. SomeWhere Sam From: LauraM hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 6:42:23 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors I've tried using those statistics on people who refuse to contain their cats, thinking they MIGHT care about wildlife even though they clearly aren't concerned with their cats' own safety. Hasn't worked. There are also people out there who want irresponsible owners of bird-killing cats to be held legally liable, as it's a violation of federal law to kill most bird species has been for decades. And in some areas cats have reduced the rodent population to such low numbers that migrating raptors - all federally protected - have nothing to eat. Cats, as non-native, introduced and subsidized predators, have no business being outside. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
Yikes! I don't like those statistics at all but I believe it. I've been feeding ferals at my office for the last 8 years. Several months back I found one dead and half eaten, then another one went missing not too long after that. A week or two later I saw a coyote in the parking lot of the office building next to us. I work at night a lot so I have more of an opportunity to see them than some people. I stopped leaving food out for my cats at night. After not seeing the coyote for a while I got back in the bad habit of leaving cat food out at night. Just last week I walked outside about 10 PM and there was the coyote at the food dish, which isn't too far away from my front door. The coyote didn't scare me but then I saw my two remaining semi-feral cats running towards me and realized they had been close by while the coyote was eating. I've stopped leaving food out and hopefully he'll move on. I'm so scared for my cats at the office. I wish that if I left a lot of food out for the coyote he'd stay full and leave the cats alone. I don't think it works that way though. He'll still want to chase and kill them because of his instinct. I really wish pet cats could roam outside and enjoy the extra freedom. But stuff like this has made me more of an advocate of keeping them indoors all the time, unless you have a cat fence or something. Loose dogs have always been a problem killing cats but I don't remember having a coyote problem as a kid. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 17:24:10 -0700 From: hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Maureen - I am in GA also, and analysis of coyote stomach contents showed that something like 60% of them contained cat remains. I suspect that's why we have such a coyote problem, even in the suburbs - they are supplied with an endless number of cats as prey - somebody's cat goes missing and they just replace it with another one. --- On Wed, 3/23/11, Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com wrote: From: Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Wednesday, March 23, 2011, 3:58 AM You can also take it further and reiterate that humans are the #1 killers of birds because of the dummies that let their un-altered pet cats run around outside and breed and have kittens everywhere, not just because of the habitat destruction that we do. I think where I live in GA some of the rodents are getting a reprive because all the coyotes who would normally eat some of the rodents are getting full on my feral cats. It's so sad. I don't hate the coyotes for doing it (just like I don't hate or blame cats for killing other small prey) but it breaks my heart everytime a feral goes missing. All points always come back to the main topic of the importance of keeping the cats indoors (and getting them fixed). All we can do is spread the message and hope it makes a difference. And it my part of the world it has made a huge difference. When I was a kid, no one contemplated keeping a cat indoors it's whole life. But now, more and more people are. I can tell by the people I meet at our adoptions. Things are changing - we just have a long way to go still. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 18:23:12 -0700 From: sin...@sbcglobal.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors LOL Humans are a non-native, introduced and subsidized predators.G This is like expecting pet owners to spay or neuter their pets, interesting idea, one which I would love to see, but seeing and knowing human nature is not going to happen in my lifetime. SomeWhere Sam From: LauraM hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 6:42:23 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors I've tried using those statistics on people who refuse to contain their cats, thinking they MIGHT care about wildlife even though they clearly aren't concerned with their cats' own safety. Hasn't worked. There are also people out there who want irresponsible owners of bird-killing cats to be held legally liable, as it's a violation of federal law to kill most bird
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
From: molvey...@hotmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 01:56:54 -0400 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Yikes! I don't like those statistics at all but I believe it. I've been feeding ferals at my office for the last 8 years. Several months back I found one dead and half eaten, then another one went missing not too long after that. A week or two later I saw a coyote in the parking lot of the office building next to us. I work at night a lot so I have more of an opportunity to see them than some people. I stopped leaving food out for my cats at night. After not seeing the coyote for a while I got back in the bad habit of leaving cat food out at night. Just last week I walked outside about 10 PM and there was the coyote at the food dish, which isn't too far away from my front door. The coyote didn't scare me but then I saw my two remaining semi-feral cats running towards me and realized they had been close by while the coyote was eating. I've stopped leaving food out and hopefully he'll move on. I'm so scared for my cats at the office. I wish that if I left a lot of food out for the coyote he'd stay full and leave the cats alone. I don't think it works that way though. He'll still want to chase and kill them because of his instinct. I really wish pet cats could roam outside and enjoy the extra freedom. But stuff like this has made me more of an advocate of keeping them indoors all the time, unless you have a cat fence or something. Loose dogs have always been a problem killing cats but I don't remember having a coyote problem as a kid. Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 17:24:10 -0700 From: hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Maureen - I am in GA also, and analysis of coyote stomach contents showed that something like 60% of them contained cat remains. I suspect that's why we have such a coyote problem, even in the suburbs - they are supplied with an endless number of cats as prey - somebody's cat goes missing and they just replace it with another one. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
Regarding Amber - Been doing more reading. By keeping Amber in the basement you're not putting your cats at risk at all so don't feel guilty about that. One thing said 60% of cats exposed to FeLV don't get it. 5-10% put it into a latent stage. Only about 30% get it and die (still too many though). Sometimes it can take up to a year of prolonged exposure for a healthy adult cat to get the virus in it's system. I honestly think with Amber in the basement your cats have no chance of getting it. You have done a wonderful thing by taking her in. Also - do the IFA test too. Or do it in a couple months when you re-test if the ELISA comes out positive again. Another website I read said the in office ELISA combo test are wrong about 50% of the time. Wonder how many cats have been put down because of that. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 08:04:47 -0700 From: jannestay...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors I use to have indoor/outdoor cats, but now they are strickly indoor. There are so many dangers outside such as cars, dogs, and the chance of encountering a another cat with felv, for example. I do feel sorry for them sometimes, but I have to say I would trade places with any one of them to live the life of luxury they experinece indoors. They do long to go outside sometimes, but I open up the windows and let them smell the fresh air. I don't feel too guilty about it. LOL Update on Amber, my felv kitty. I've had her three and a half weeks now and she is looking and feeling so much better! She has gained weight and still has a good appetite. She is so sweet. My husband is building her a kitty palace, which is eight feet long, four feet wide, and six feet tall. We bought a cat tree to put in it so she can climb and get her exercise. I have been keeping her in a much smaller cage (the only on I have) and letting her roam in the basement a few hours a day when I can. I so wish I could bring her upstairs with the other cats, but just don't feel I should take the risk. I am still struggling a little bit with putting them at risk at all, but it is what it is! I still plan to have Amber retested in a couple of months. Whatever happens, I am still glad I have been given the opportunity to make a difference in her life. Jannes From: Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wed, March 23, 2011 8:13:09 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors As an adopter, my views on this are very strict and well-defined - I am responsible for placing cats in the safest possible homes, and I would do no less. I need to be able to sleep at night, knowing that the cats that I rescued and invested so much time, energy, and emotion will be safe and happy for a long time. Yes, I agree, there still are a few safe area left, but not many and none are 100% safe, ever. It is true that times used to be safer for cats to be outdoors - ours always had been, especially when I was growing up, until one of our kittens was killed by a carUnfortunately, it takes many people to understand this only after a tragedy occurs. When an adopter tells me that their cat ALWAYS sat on the front porch, and never leftand they intend to do the same with a new adopted cat, I say NO! Their old cat may have indeed done that, but it doesn't mean that a new cat will do it: It takes ONLY ONE TIME - chasing a squirrel or bird across the street, and WHAM! Cats can be perfectly happy indoors with tall cat trees by a window, a window perch, the right kind of toys to keep them interested and active. More and more people construct outdoor enclosures; simple ones to really elaborate ones, even just a little window screened porch. I don't believe that cats need to hunt; if they are homeless and hungry, yes, but there's no need for a well-fed cat to kill small wildlife, not for food, but for fun and the reflex of chasing something (could be a toy). -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 7:56 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors This is a hot topic, but I agree humans and loss of habitat are the main threat to birds. As for keeping cats inside. I've had cats all my life and they have always been indoor/outdoor cats. All of them have lived to 16 to 17 years of age unless they've had some genetic problem like heart disease. My cats were all rescues and they lived
[Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
My friend does that too and she's had negatives and positives running around together for many years with no problems. However, even knowing what I do about FeLV I would have been very hesistant to bring a FeLV + cat into my house with all my negative cats so I understand Jannes' worries. You just hate taking a chance. I never had to make that decision. All my cats and fosters tested negative before coming to my house, but then we found out that my baby that was two years old that died a few weeks ago was positive, even though her initial combo test was negative. So the virus kind of sneaked it's way into my house. I didn't realize I already had a FeLV + cat. Anyway, before a few weeks ago I was always scared I'd find a kitten and it would test positive. Then I knew I'd have to make a choice and there's no way I could put a healthy looking kitten down so I'd knew I'd be in a real bind. It's a tough spot to be in. That's why I hope for Jannes that Amber's next test comes out negative so she won't have to worry anymore. Now my friend that I mentioned wouldn't hesitate taking in a new FeLV + cat because she's been doing this for years an all her negative cats have always been fine and keep testing negative. And she's got a lot of cats. So if in her whole population a negative kitty never turned positive after living with a few positive kitties then it's a pretty good testimony as to how effective the vaccine is. I think she's got a couple of FIV cats in the mix too and she vaccinates them also and they've never picked up the FeLV virus. Oh, today I got the ceramic paw print in the mail from the vet's office for my kitty Two Face, that I mentioned above, that died a few weeks ago. I was sad all over again. I miss her so much. I still can't believe she's dead. One day she's fine, and the next day she's dead. Then I found out about the FeLV. That was a bad week. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 22:24:57 -0500 From: dlg...@windstream.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors My vet said to keep new negative cats seperate from positives until they had the vaccination for felv and then just to be safe, wait a cuple of weeks to be sure the shot worked. I have done that and my pos and neg cats all have had free run of the house for 2 years now. No one new has tested positive so far. Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: Is there any way you could use a full-spectrum light in the basement for Amber? I have installed fluorescent full-spectrum light for the cats in our garage cat condos; none have been sick for years! -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Maureen Olvey Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 2:50 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Regarding Amber - Been doing more reading. By keeping Amber in the basement you're not putting your cats at risk at all so don't feel guilty about that. One thing said 60% of cats exposed to FeLV don't get it. 5-10% put it into a latent stage. Only about 30% get it and die (still too many though). Sometimes it can take up to a year of prolonged exposure for a healthy adult cat to get the virus in it's system. I honestly think with Amber in the basement your cats have no chance of getting it. You have done a wonderful thing by taking her in. Also - do the IFA test too. Or do it in a couple months when you re-test if the ELISA comes out positive again. Another website I read said the in office ELISA combo test are wrong about 50% of the time. Wonder how many cats have been put down because of that. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] Question about the virus itself
I've got a question about the FeLV virus itself. Is it all the same virus or does it mutate and change like the herpes virus that causes URI? What I'm wondering is that if I've got a cat that has been exposed to the virus but extinguished it, is he immune for life? Seems like I read that. So if I brought in another FeLV + kitty and my resident cat has already gotten some immunity from the virus he had been exposed to in the past, does that mean being exposed to the virus through another cat would be the same as the virus that he was first exposed to so his immunity would work against that virus? Does that make sense? I'm wondering if I brought in another FeLV + cat would I need to vaccinate my cat that has already been exposed and extinguished the virus. Anyone have a clue? I guess the main question is if the virus mutates from cat to cat or is it always the same virus and doesn't change. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Question about the virus itself
Hadn't heard about the vet jet. I'll have to ask about it. Because I didn't know the one cat had the virus until she died a few weeks ago most of my cats have lived with her and shared food bowls for at least a year and some were with her for almost two years. One vet was kind of saying that if they hadn't gotten the virus by now they probably wouldn't get it so there wouldn't be a need to vaccinate any of my others. I don't know if he's right or not about not vaccinating the negatives. I've just been tossing that idea around. But then someone was asking me about these FeLV + kittens and it got me to thinking about whether I should vaccinate if a new member was added. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 13:49:28 -0700 From: sashacatgodd...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Question about the virus itself I think that they are immune for life if they get and extinguish the virus. I do not believe that it is a mutating virus of any sort, at least not so far. The problem is you have no way of knowing for sure that you cat did this unless it was positive and is now negative. Cats develop some natural immunity with age, it is possible to live together for years and not contract it even with repeated exposures. If you are concerned about vaccine related sarcomas there are FeLv vaccines that are given by the vet jet that is considered much safer, that is what we were using at the last vet hospital I worked at. Good luck, Tanya --- On Tue, 3/29/11, Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com wrote: From: Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com Subject: [Felvtalk] Question about the virus itself To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Tuesday, March 29, 2011, 12:30 PM I've got a question about the FeLV virus itself. Is it all the same virus or does it mutate and change like the herpes virus that causes URI? What I'm wondering is that if I've got a cat that has been exposed to the virus but extinguished it, is he immune for life? Seems like I read that. So if I brought in another FeLV + kitty and my resident cat has already gotten some immunity from the virus he had been exposed to in the past, does that mean being exposed to the virus through another cat would be the same as the virus that he was first exposed to so his immunity would work against that virus? Does that make sense? I'm wondering if I brought in another FeLV + cat would I need to vaccinate my cat that has already been exposed and extinguished the virus. Anyone have a clue? I guess the main question is if the virus mutates from cat to cat or is it always the same virus and doesn't change. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Question about the virus itself
Figures the virus would mutate. My husband and I were talking and thinking that the vaccine probably helps the cat develop antibodies to one general form of the virus so even if a different form or mutation of the virus is introduced into the system the antibodies created from the general form of the virus would be strong enough to combat the mutated form as well. Make sense? So in theory it would work if the cat got the virus and extinguished it the same way as if the cat were vaccinated. However, I think all you guys might be right. Just vaccinate the negatives before introducing another positive just to be safe. To assume that my cats that test negative now have contacted the virus and extinguished it (just because they lived with the FeLV + kitty for two years) might be taking a big risk. Even though the cats were together two years maybe for some reason they never got enough of the virus into their system for their bodies immune system to have to respond. So then they really don't have immunity in their system. I guess it's not worth taking the risk. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 14:00:31 -0700 From: cline...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Question about the virus itself Maureen, I don't have links to the science to answer your question. I do know there are at least 3 versions of FeLV. Personally I wouldn't take the chance of mixing without 1st vaccinating any negatives in the house. I have mixed negatives and positives but my negatives were always current on their vaccine. Sharyl --- On Tue, 3/29/11, Maureen Olive molvey...@hotmail.com wrote: From: Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com Subject: [Felvtalk] Question about the virus itself To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Tuesday, March 29, 2011, 12:30 PM I've got a question about the FeLV virus itself. Is it all the same virus or does it mutate and change like the herpes virus that causes URI? What I'm wondering is that if I've got a cat that has been exposed to the virus but extinguished it, is he immune for life? Seems like I read that. So if I brought in another FeLV + kitty and my resident cat has already gotten some immunity from the virus he had been exposed to in the past, does that mean being exposed to the virus through another cat would be the same as the virus that he was first exposed to so his immunity would work against that virus? Does that make sense? I'm wondering if I brought in another FeLV + cat would I need to vaccinate my cat that has already been exposed and extinguished the virus. Anyone have a clue? I guess the main question is if the virus mutates from cat to cat or is it always the same virus and doesn't change. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] posting to thread on Felvtalk
About 3 weeks ago I lost a two year old to FeLV. She tested negative as a kitten but obviously the test was wrong or she had just gotten it when they did the test. I foster with a humane society so I have a house full of other cats. Some of those cats lived with the cat that died for a year and a half. So far I've tested four of them and all four have tested negative. I'm going through the process of having the rest of my cats tested but after living with a FeLV positive cat for a whole year and a half I expected at least one of those four to have contracted it. Especially since they too were kittens when they came to live here with her. They had all shared food and water bowls and litterboxes. Matter of fact, I have an FIV positive adult that lives here and has been here the last two years. He came here a few months before she did. He developed asthma last year and at that time I had bloodwork done on him. Even after living with her for a year he still hadn't gotten FeLV. I'm going to test him again because he's at a high risk already having immune system issues but I don't understand how he didn't have it last year after being with her for a year. All of that to tell you not to freak out about your adult. You do need to have her re-tested and to keep an eye out for health issues because it is a serious disease, but many many adult cats exposed to FeLV are able to extinguish the virus. The last I read said as much as 50% of them could. Another 25-30% or so could put the virus into dormancy so that it is in their bone marrow but they never have problems from it and aren't able to pass it to another cat. Several websites say that only 30% of them at most contract it and die from it. There's so much reading on the web and I encourage you to research it. Everyone in this group has lots of experience with it so you'll learn a lot from here too. Keep in mind that if your adult does test positive on the ELISA test that is done at the vet's office you would need to have another test, the IFA, done to confirm it. The ELISA test easily produces false positives. Good luck and I hope your adult is one of those in the higher percentage that will never have problems with FeLV. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain From: longhornf...@verizon.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 11:10:42 -0500 Subject: [Felvtalk] posting to thread on Felvtalk Hi Mr. Wilson! I would like to take part in the discussions about Feline Leukemia. I recently had a 9 mos. old kitten die from FeLV. I'm very concerned about my 2 yr old cat contracting the disease. It would help me to talk to other people that have experienced having exposed a FeLV kitten to a cat within the same house. Please let me know how I can start a thread and read some past posts regarding FeLV. Thanks for your help. I really need some support. Sincerely, Lynn ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Question re positives negatives
Pam, I haven't had a chance to check out this link so it may cover everything I say but I wanted to share what I've learned about FeLV just in case it didn't cover everything. I've read a lot of websites, books and talked with several vets about all this. My understanding is very rudimentary but here's what I've read: If a cat test positive on the IFA test then it has FeLV and is shedding the virus in the saliva and blood. This test looks for the virus in the white blood cells so once the virus has gotten that far it means the immune system wasn't able to extinguish the virus and almost 100 percent chance the cat will always be positive and shedding the virus and can infect other cats. No need to do any further testing. At this point, if the IFA test is negative it can mean a couple of different things. 1) It can mean the ELISA test done in the vet's office was just plain wrong. It's a sensitive test and can easily produce false positives. It should never be solely relied upon as a diagnosis for FeLV. 2) A negative IFA test could also mean that the cat really has gotten the virus, which means the ELISA test was correct, but the virus hasn't reached the white blood cells. If this is the case, the cat still has a chance for the immune system to either extinguish the virus or put it into latentcy. From what I've read about 40% of these cats will extinguish the virus or put it into latentcy. But since all cats don't extinguish the virus if this first IFA test shows negative, to be certain the IFA test should be repeated a few months later. If the cat has actually put the virus into latentcy it means the virus is in the bone marrow but isn't being shed so it is not infective to other cats. However, the virus can be brought out of latentcy even years later if the cat becomes ill or has some other major stressors. But many cats who do initially put the virus into latentcy will later on extinguish the virus so you just never know. The vet book I just read said that the only way to find out if a cat has the virus in the bone marrow, meaning it's dormant/latent, is to do a biopsy of the bone marrow. That means that there really may be lots of cats out there that have contracted FeLV but put it into latentcy and the owner never even knows. The books said only about 10% of exposed cats will put it into latentcy though. So most will either extinguish the virus or become carriers (persistently viremic). So I believe the woman who told you that a negative IFA test still means the cat has FeLV is wrong and myself I wouldn't put her in with positive cats until you know her true status. Or, at least get Poppy vaccinated before putting her in there with positive cats. It does take continued and prolonged exposure for a cat to get the FeLV virus into it's system. Cats who eat after each other only on rare occasions are not likely to spread the virus. My thoughts are that if Poppy is in a cat condo and occasionally hisses at another cat it's not likely that would be enough exposure for the negative cat to get it. Especially if the negative is a healthy adult cat. That's not a guarantee though so you have to decide for yourself about that one. The vaccination has become much more effective. Seems like I read somewhere that it was 90%. I have a friend who has had several FeLV positive cats living with negatives and even a couple FIV positive cats, for many years. She has way more cats than you. All the FeLV negative cats, including the FIV positive cats, get FeLV vaccinations every year and have never gotten FeLV. They all live together, share food and water bowls, etc. She's not the only one with these kinds of results with a house where positive and negatives hangout together. Can't think of anything else right now. It's very confusing though. I have more cats than you and in March a two year old died and we found out she had FeLV even though she tested negative as a kitten. I'm going through the process of re-testing all the other cats right now. I've only gotten 5 tested so far but all 5 have been negative, thank the Lord. Four out of those five lived with the FeLV positive cat for one or two years, have never been vaccinated and still didn't pick up the virus, or were able to extinguish it. Good luck making the decision. It's tough. It's a fatal virus and you can't play with it but at the same time there's so much misinformation out there and a lot of unecessary pre-cautions or euthanizations are taking place. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain From: longhornf...@verizon.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 13:59:38
Re: [Felvtalk] Question re positives negatives
Sounds to me like yet another example of healthy cats being able to fight off the virus or put it into latentcy. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 13:07:42 -0700 From: scata...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Question re positives negatives Hello Pam, Yes, they did share everything for 10 years up until a month ago when we found out that the other one is positive. That is actually the biggest mystery - the 2 other cats never got infected. The doctor did say that we should test them again every 6 months. Sharon On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Pam Norman pam_nor...@charter.net wrote: Sharon, What about grooming? I would assume that those cats, having lived together for 10 years, would mutually groom. That's sharing bodily fluids I would think would be potentially harmful to the negative ones. Pam On 4/15/2011 1:28 PM, Sharon Catalan wrote: Hello Pam, My 3 cats have been living together for 10 years now until my boy-cat was just recently diagnosed with FeLV. He may have contracted it 2 years ago when he ran outside and got into a fight with another cat. We had the 2 other girl-cats tested and they're both negative. We had the 2 other girl-cats vaccinated and currently, they are separated. Doctor said that they can be together 30days after the 2 other cats receive their 2nd shot of FeLV vaccination. Also, according to our doctor, it should be okay for them to be together again as long as they don't bite/scratch each other or share bodily fluids. Just keep their feeding stuff completely separate. My cats never fight with each other although occasionally, the other cat will eat someone's leftover and I think that is the reason that the 2 others cats never contracted it considering that the other one had FeLV for quite some time now. Sharon On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 11:00 AM, Pam Normanpam_nor...@charter.net wrote: I am trying to determine what to do with Poppy both now when the IFA test results come in. I've been reading reading from what I can gather, the old dictums about NEVER havinig positive negative cats even in the same house has been abandoned. From what I have read, the general sense is that it's fine for positives negatives to be in the same home, but should be separate so there is no chance of exchanging fluids such as with a bite, but more importantly with mutual grooming. But I know also that some of you have both positives negatives really living together, not separate. Right? What about if I put Poppy in her condo in the spare bedroom let me cats visit, so at least she SEES other cats. What is she hisses spits? Would that have a chance of infecting any of mine who were nosing around her condo? My feeling is that it would. Also how effective is the vaccine these days? I know that some years ago the figure was about 30% so I never had any of my cats vaccinated. Has it been improved? Right now we are still waiting for the IFA test for Poppy. And I guess she needs retesting on that in at least a month. I do NOT want to keep her alone until then. We have a sanctuary for her if she tests IFA positive cause then we know that she is really positive. But the person who runs it tells me that regardless of how she tests on the IFA, she HAS leukemia. Period. And would go in with the positive cats. But my understanding is that if she is IFA negative, she has a chance of fighting it off putting her in with the positives is giving up. I think she should only go in with the positives if she tests IFA positive. Can anyone help me sort this out? Pam ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Sharon F Catalan Cell: (408) 398-5647 Home: (408) 229-2298 Carpe Diem! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Question re positives negatives
I read that too about the 85% that will live a max of 3.5 years. Someone in my feline asthma group said her cat lived until she was 16. Can you believe that? She said the cat lived indoors since a kitten and hadn't mixed with other cats so she assumes that the cat got the disease as a kitten. I thought that was incredible. 11 years is outstanding also. How fortunate you are. Some cats just defy the odds I guess. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain From: longhornf...@verizon.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 15:30:51 -0500 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Question re positives negatives Belinda, What a relief to hear! I feel you are so lucky because I don't hear very many stories as yours. I have read that 85% of kitties that test positive on the IFA test, don't live past 3 1/2 yrs. I'm so glad that you were able to enjoy Bailey as long as you did! What meds did you have him on? Lynda - Original Message - From: Belinda Sauro ma...@bemikitties.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 2:29 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Question re positives negatives My Bailey lived with his housemates from the time he was 5 months old (tested positive then) until he passed of cancer at age 11 years, they slept, ate, groomed and on occasion had little spats, none of his vaccinated housemates ever became positive. I had them tested intermittently and they were always negative. I lost Bailey in 2006 and his remaining housemates are still negative. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://BelindaSauro.com http://HostDesign4U.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Question re positives negatives
I really hope your Ragdoll will be fine. Honestly, the odds are higer than he'll shake the virus or put it into latentcy. Please keep us posted as you get the final results in. If it turns out he is positive and there is no more doubt about it you could consider getting him a positive playmate. That would be a tough decision because then you could possibly have two cats you love that will not live a full life instead of just one. Course you could have two cats you love that both have FeLV and live forever. Hard to know and it would be hard for me to make that decision but I just wanted to mention it as an option if you 100% positively find out that your ragdoll is positive. Like I said, odds are higher that you won't even have to make that decision so I can't wait to hear good news about the ragdoll being negative. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain From: longhornf...@verizon.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 15:45:12 -0500 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Question re positives negatives One more note, Crash my Ragdoll shared everything and groomed one another constantly since day one. This is why I am so concerned, but I have to remind myself that my cat is a healthy 2 yr old and Crash was an unhealthy kitten. - Original Message - From: Pam Norman pam_nor...@charter.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 2:24 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Question re positives negatives Lynda, you wrote that Crash was FeLeuk negative last November. Did you mean positive? Or had he been positive prior to this? On 4/15/2011 1:59 PM, Lynda Wilson wrote: Pam, I've done a lot of research myself and I asked my vet many questions. Here is a link that was very helpful to me and I had my vet review this in case she had a difference of opinion. This is very accurate information. I think it will answer many of your questions. Here is the link: http://www.wikifaq.com/Feline_Leukemia_FAQ#Is_there_any_risk_in_getting_my_cats_vaccinated.3F I will say that it's not worth the risk getting your other cats infected to socialize Poppy. She will be fine confined, just give her as much attention as possible at least until she has been cleared of the virus (meaning she is not permanently positive for leukemia). Also, I am in the same boat as you. My kitten (Crash) that I fostered, then adopted turned out to be FeLV negative this past Nov. 2010. On March 10, 2011 he had to be put down because he was in very bad shape. He was anemic, had a hear murmur and his oxygen level was next to nothing. He was fine 2 days prior. I actually took him in because he did not have a bowel movement in 2 days (we were treating him for diarrhea) and I just thought his new food was working well. Now my Ragdoll cat is at risk because I did not get him vaccinated against leukemia because he is strictly and indoor cat. So far, he has been negative but will test again on May 9th. I so want to get him another companion. It keeps him active and it's such a joy to watch to kitties play. Had I known that Crash was contagious with leukemia, I would have never exposed my other cat. This disease is fatal, with no cure. But I will say that the vaccine is not 100% (but none of them are) effective at all times, but it's better than not being protected at all. I hope that Poppy's immune system clears the virus. You may also get her siblings tested again to be safe and the mother as well. Good luck! I hope this info helps!! Lynda - Original Message - From: Pam Norman pam_nor...@charter.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 1:00 PM Subject: [Felvtalk] Question re positives negatives I am trying to determine what to do with Poppy both now when the IFA test results come in. I've been reading reading from what I can gather, the old dictums about NEVER havinig positive negative cats even in the same house has been abandoned. From what I have read, the general sense is that it's fine for positives negatives to be in the same home, but should be separate so there is no chance of exchanging fluids such as with a bite, but more importantly with mutual grooming. But I know also that some of you have both positives negatives really living together, not separate. Right? What about if I put Poppy in her condo in the spare bedroom let me cats visit, so at least she SEES other cats. What is she hisses spits? Would that have a chance of infecting any of mine who were nosing around her condo? My feeling is that it would. Also how
Re: [Felvtalk] Question re positives negatives
Even though this wasn't directed at me I thought I'd give my input (my husband says I do this all the time - LOL). The only way I think this would be possible is if the virus is in transition. Like, it has just gotten into the body and it hasn't had time to do what ever it does to get into the blood stream. The ELISA test and an IFA test would be negative at this point. I'm not sure if the cat can pass it at this point though since it hasn't really gotten into the saliva or bloodstream. Not sure about that but it seems logical to me. Then the virus progresses and gets into the system/bloodstream or saliva and the ELISA test would be positive but the IFA test would be negative. I'm guessing at this point the cat could spread it. After this if the cat can't extinguish the virus or put it into latentcy then it gets into the white blood cells and the IFA test would eventually test positive. The cat could definitely pass it at this point. I did for sure read that if the virus if put into latentcy then it is carried in the bone marrow but not in the white blood cells or bloodstream or saliva so it can't pass the virus to other cats. That's my thoughts but I'm not a vet. I know that if it's in latency they can't spread it which I found very interesting. The cat wouldn't test positive at that point either, even on the IFA test. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain From: longhornf...@verizon.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 16:40:17 -0500 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Question re positives negatives Sharon, I have read that some cats can be carriers of FeLV and test negative, but can transmit it to other cats. This is a crazy disease that has so many if's that it's confusing. Have you heard of this as well? Lynda - Original Message - From: Sharon Catalan scata...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 3:07 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Question re positives negatives Hello Pam, Yes, they did share everything for 10 years up until a month ago when we found out that the other one is positive. That is actually the biggest mystery - the 2 other cats never got infected. The doctor did say that we should test them again every 6 months. Sharon On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Pam Norman pam_nor...@charter.net wrote: Sharon, What about grooming? I would assume that those cats, having lived together for 10 years, would mutually groom. That's sharing bodily fluids I would think would be potentially harmful to the negative ones. Pam On 4/15/2011 1:28 PM, Sharon Catalan wrote: Hello Pam, My 3 cats have been living together for 10 years now until my boy-cat was just recently diagnosed with FeLV. He may have contracted it 2 years ago when he ran outside and got into a fight with another cat. We had the 2 other girl-cats tested and they're both negative. We had the 2 other girl-cats vaccinated and currently, they are separated. Doctor said that they can be together 30days after the 2 other cats receive their 2nd shot of FeLV vaccination. Also, according to our doctor, it should be okay for them to be together again as long as they don't bite/scratch each other or share bodily fluids. Just keep their feeding stuff completely separate. My cats never fight with each other although occasionally, the other cat will eat someone's leftover and I think that is the reason that the 2 others cats never contracted it considering that the other one had FeLV for quite some time now. Sharon On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 11:00 AM, Pam Normanpam_nor...@charter.net wrote: I am trying to determine what to do with Poppy both now when the IFA test results come in. I've been reading reading from what I can gather, the old dictums about NEVER havinig positive negative cats even in the same house has been abandoned. From what I have read, the general sense is that it's fine for positives negatives to be in the same home, but should be separate so there is no chance of exchanging fluids such as with a bite, but more importantly with mutual grooming. But I know also that some of you have both positives negatives really living together, not separate. Right? What about if I put Poppy in her condo in the spare bedroom let me cats visit, so at least she SEES other cats. What is she hisses spits? Would that have a chance of infecting any of mine who were nosing around her condo? My feeling is that it would. Also how effective is the vaccine these days? I know that some years ago the figure was about 30%
Re: [Felvtalk] Update on Poppy/IFA test
I agree with everyone else. The virus has probably gotten in her system since she's had two positive ELISA tests but there is a chance she could fight it off before it goes any further. If she does extinguish the virus she'll eventually test negative on both the ELISA and the IFA. If her system can't get rid of the virus then eventually she'll test positive on the IFA. (Course there is the possibility that both ELISA tests were wrong but probably not very likely). If you can keep her for a bit then re-test it would be better to give her time to see if she fights the virus off. It's harder for kittens to fight the virus but not impossible. I have heard of kittens fighting it off so if you can give her a little time so she has a chance for her immune system to do it's magic that would be the better option I would think. This lady with the FeLV sanctuary must be a wonderful person to do what she does. I don't think she understands the mechanics of how FeLV works though and how it gets into the body and then progresses. I'm not an expert but I have read lots and talked with several vets and of course everyone here knows a lot so I think the lady is mistaken in what she told you. She may have been talking about lymphoma which is one thing that can happen to a cat with FeLV. But it's no guarantee that that is what will happen with Poppy even if she can't fight the virus off. Some cats get a kind of severe anemia or several other things can happen, but some cats live with FeLV for a long long time and never have trouble. We were just talking about the 11 year old cat with FeLV. At the same time I had been talking with someone in my Feline Asthma group that just had a 16 year old cat that died and they discovered FeLV. They knew for sure the cat could have only gotten it as a kitten so she lived for 16 years with it which is a long time. So some cats just defy odds and live a long life so you can't say for certain how Poppy will do even if she has FeLV. Like I said, wonderful lady but it doesn't sound like she knows a lot about FeLV. Maybe she's just telling you stuff based on her personal experience with it. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 20:06:28 -0500 From: pam_nor...@charter.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Update on Poppy/IFA test Good idea, but no, it was a blood test. Both Elisas. On 4/18/2011 4:21 PM, Christiane Biagi wrote: Just a wild thought... Was the Elisa done by using blood on test strip or saliva/tears??? Some vets may be still doing saliva/tears test its notorious for being wrong. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Pam Norman Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 4:35 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Update on Poppy/IFA test She is not positive on the IFA, she is negative. An initial positive on the Elisa the another positive on the Elisa, but at the same time, a negative on the IFA. On 4/18/2011 1:09 PM, TANYA NOE wrote: Positive on IFA means it has reached the bone barrow and there is no clearing the virus. If she is positive on the snap test again (and it has been at least 6 weeks since she last tested positive) then she is FeLV positive, but you need to wait the full 6 weeks to give her body time to clear the vius. There is still a slight chance she could clear the virus from her body even if it has been 6 weeks but most likely she will not. I have spoken with the maker of the snap test because we were always told that there we a lot of false positives and at my clinic there were probably 2-3 of every 10 tests that were positive, but IDEXX says that the tests are 99.999% accurate. Whether you mix or not is completely up to you. We mixed our girls 2 years ago. Since cats over the age of 1-2 years of age begin to develop a natural immunity and our negative cat is properly vaccinated the risk of the non-positive contracting FeLV is small. There is still a risk but it is very small. I hope this helps and thanks for taking care of this kitty!! Tanya --- On Mon, 4/18/11, Pam Normanpam_nor...@charter.net wrote: From: Pam Normanpam_nor...@charter.net Subject: [Felvtalk] Update on Poppy/IFA test To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Monday, April 18, 2011, 10:38 AM Test is in from IDEXX. Poppy is IFA negative! BUT they did another Elisa (the first was done in-house) she is still Elisa positive. So tell me now what this means. I have to go off to Madison right now but when I get back I will re-read
Re: [Felvtalk] Question re positives negatives
I have been e-mailing with a vet friend and she says most researchers these days feel that adult cats are pretty well resistant to the disease, even if not vaccinated. I bet Sugar will be fine. I've just had 5 of my cats tested that are not vaccinated (think I already told you this) but lived with my FeLV + kitty for two years and those 5 are negative. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain From: longhornf...@verizon.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 09:22:49 -0500 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Question re positives negatives I always love to hear positive experiences with FeLV+ cats. I still hope that mine will continue to test negative. May 9th can't get here soon enough for me! - Original Message - From: POTT, BEVERLY p...@mailbox.sc.edu To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 8:35 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Question re positives negatives I had a cat with FELV that lived to be 17. I never separated him from my other cats, they ate out of the same bowls, etc., and none of them ever contracted the disease. The other ones were vaccinated against it. I've also had 2 other positives living with my negative cats (one lived to be 4, the other 8), and none of my other cats ever contracted it. My brother, too, had a positive cat that lived to be 17- and he, too, never separated his cats out. None of his other cats (vaccinated) ever contracted Feleuk. Just sayin'. -Original Message- From: Pam Norman [mailto:pam_nor...@charter.net] Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 2:01 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Question re positives negatives I am trying to determine what to do with Poppy both now when the IFA test results come in. I've been reading reading from what I can gather, the old dictums about NEVER havinig positive negative cats even in the same house has been abandoned. From what I have read, the general sense is that it's fine for positives negatives to be in the same home, but should be separate so there is no chance of exchanging fluids such as with a bite, but more importantly with mutual grooming. But I know also that some of you have both positives negatives really living together, not separate. Right? What about if I put Poppy in her condo in the spare bedroom let me cats visit, so at least she SEES other cats. What is she hisses spits? Would that have a chance of infecting any of mine who were nosing around her condo? My feeling is that it would. Also how effective is the vaccine these days? I know that some years ago the figure was about 30% so I never had any of my cats vaccinated. Has it been improved? Right now we are still waiting for the IFA test for Poppy. And I guess she needs retesting on that in at least a month. I do NOT want to keep her alone until then. We have a sanctuary for her if she tests IFA positive cause then we know that she is really positive. But the person who runs it tells me that regardless of how she tests on the IFA, she HAS leukemia. Period. And would go in with the positive cats. But my understanding is that if she is IFA negative, she has a chance of fighting it off putting her in with the positives is giving up. I think she should only go in with the positives if she tests IFA positive. Can anyone help me sort this out? Pam ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Amber's Kitty Palace
He did awesome. That's quite the palace for her. I can tell you guys put a lot of thought into how you set it up also. You two are quite the pair. Amber is so lucky to have stumbled across you and your wonderful husband. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2011 16:19:26 -0700 From: jannestay...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Amber's Kitty Palace Luckily, I have a soft hearted hubby who spent many hours working on this. He is not a carpenter by any means, but did pretty good for a rookie. Jannes From: Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Sun, April 17, 2011 1:40:46 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Amber's Kitty Palace Wow, nice little apartment she's got there! She's a real cutie, too. Looks a bit like my cat, Miya-Chan. She looks good healthy too. How nice of you to do this for her! ~B. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of jannestay...@yahoo.com Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 10:04 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Amber's Kitty Palace QueenJMT http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums/k518/QueenJMT/?track=share_email_album_v iew_click I wanted share something on Photobucket with you! If you are having problems viewing this email, copy and paste the following into your browser: http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums/k518/QueenJMT/?showNotificationLB=1trac k=share_email_album_view_click Photobucket.com - http://photobucket.com Join the biggest image and video sharing service in the world. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] Need Sanctuary for Kittens
My rescue group has two 8 week old FeLV positive kittens that need a place to go. I'm in the Atlanta area but I don't think there are any FeLV sanctuaries nearby or even in the whole state. The lady who has been fostering them is willing to drive almost anywhere. She has family in PA and goes up there several times a year so driving a distance isn't a problem for her. Plus we have other people who can drive them to various other states. The kittens will be fully vetted and spayed or neutered. My rescue is a very small group. We don't have a shelter facility, we just have foster homes. We don't have a long term place for the kittens. Can anyone help or offer suggestions? We've only had one ELISA test done on the kittens but the mother cat had two positive ELISA tests and we're waiting on the IFA results for her. Because of that I'm thinking the kittens who tested positive are really positive. Think we should do an IFA test on them? I feel certain that they are truly positive but who knows. Also two of their littermates have tested negative on their first ELISA. How long should we wait before re-testing? Do you guys think those kittens could really be negative or is it more likely that it just isn't showing up yet for some reason? I know I've heard some of you say that you had a positive and a negative kitten that were littermates that came from a positive mother cat. But does that happen very often? Please let me know if anyone can put me in touch with a sanctuary for the kittens. We might need one for the mother but for now I'll just worry about the kittens. Oh, we do have someone who is taking the two negative kittens and will hold them until they can be re-tested. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Need Sanctuary for Kittens
Got the results of the IFA on the mother. She is negative. I told them we have to re-test again in a month or two because we have to have two tests that agree. Since the second ELISA is showing positive but the IFA is negative I told them we need to give her a little longer before making a conclusive determination. I hoping her immune system will extinguish the virus. Someone on here once said they had a positive mama cat with a negative kitten and a positive kitten. The positive kitten died young of course but the negative kitten and the positive mama cat were still around and healthy. I would think that would be the exception rather than the rule. But, two of this mama cat's four kittens have tested negative on their first ELISA so I'm hoping the next ELISA will show the same thing and they'll be part of the small minority that didn't get it from the mother cat. Yeah, I know about FIV and thank the Lord it is a little less scary than FeLV. I have an FIV positive male in my house so I learned all about it too. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 15:24:28 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Need Sanctuary for Kittens Unfortunately, if the mother is FeLV positive, the kittens are too! I have yet to hear or read otherwise. With FIV, that is not the case, fortunately. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Second Chance Meows Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 3:20 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org; molvey...@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Need Sanctuary for Kittens Please contact me in reference to these 2 Michael Johnson Founder/Owner Second Chance Meows A FeLV Sanctuary From: Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 10:33 AM Subject: [Felvtalk] Need Sanctuary for Kittens My rescue group has two 8 week old FeLV positive kittens that need a place to go. I'm in the Atlanta area but I don't think there are any FeLV sanctuaries nearby or even in the whole state. The lady who has been fostering them is willing to drive almost anywhere. She has family in PA and goes up there several times a year so driving a distance isn't a problem for her. Plus we have other people who can drive them to various other states. The kittens will be fully vetted and spayed or neutered. My rescue is a very small group. We don't have a shelter facility, we just have foster homes. We don't have a long term place for the kittens. Can anyone help or offer suggestions? We've only had one ELISA test done on the kittens but the mother cat had two positive ELISA tests and we're waiting on the IFA results for her. Because of that I'm thinking the kittens who tested positive are really positive. Think we should do an IFA test on them? I feel certain that they are truly positive but who knows. Also two of their littermates have tested negative on their first ELISA. How long should we wait before re-testing? Do you guys think those kittens could really be negative or is it more likely that it just isn't showing up yet for some reason? I know I've heard some of you say that you had a positive and a negative kitten that were littermates that came from a positive mother cat. But does that happen very often? Please let me know if anyone can put me in touch with a sanctuary for the kittens. We might need one for the mother but for now I'll just worry about the kittens. Oh, we do have someone who is taking the two negative kittens and will hold them until they can be re-tested. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Got great news today
Yaaa!!! “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain From: longhornf...@verizon.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Sat, 7 May 2011 20:00:01 -0500 Subject: [Felvtalk] Got great news today Some of you already know my story. I fostered, then adopted a 3 mos old kitten from the Humane Society. He passed away this past March of FeLV. I have been worried sick about my other cat since he had not had the vaccine. He had his second ELISA test today and it was negative. My vet did agree with me from my research that normally a cat that has been exposed to FeLV will test positive 28 days after exposure. So far so good. I'm feeling more confident that he has cleared the virus since he is an adult cat (2 yrs old) and has always been healthy. I'm so glad to be a part of this group and have learned so much from many of you. Thanks for all your support! I'll still keep you posted and I wish the same outcome for all the kitties fighting this horrible disease!! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Discordant Results (ELISA+/IFA-)
Kasie, You and your partner are doing a wonderful thing in giving Grace a chance to overcome this virus. I think her chances of kicking it are probably more than 30% so keep your fingers crossed. Going out of your way to improve her immune system surely will make a huge difference. My rescue just took in a mama cat that has tested positive on two ELISA tests but negative on the IFA done a month later. We're hoping she'll kick it too but are keeping her for further testing to be sure. She had two kittens that tested negative and two that tested positive on their first combo test. It's such a confusing disease. I think keeping her at the warehouse is fine for her. No need to rent an apartment although it's a sweet sweet thought. She probably gets more attention there since she doesn't have to share you with another cat like at home so don't worry. Just get extra toys and play with her a lot so when you're not there she'll be tired and sleep and won't even miss you. Ever heard of Da Bird cat toy? It's awesome and would completely wear her out. You could also borrow or rent a t.v. to keep there and play those cat videos. Some of my cats like it but some could care less. If she likes it though it would keep her entertained for long periods of time. Be sure to bring something for her to scratch on though. I can understand about not wanting to expose your other cat. I think he would be perfectly safe, especially if you get him vaccinated, but I can understand your hesitation. Although, I've learned a lot about the virus through research it would still worry me to bring in a positive cat. I'm not in that situation but I remember before I discovered that one of mine had it that I was hesistant to bring in a new cat that tested positive. It never came up but since I fostered for my rescue it was always a thought. After I found out that one of mine that had previously tested negative actually had the virus, I had several of the other cats at my house tested since they were not vaccinated but had lived with the positive cat for two years. All four have turned out to be negative. That's another testament to how hard it is for a healthy adult cat to become persistently viremic when exposed to the virus. Anyway, I have a friend, like lots of the ladies here, that has positive cats mixed with her vaccinated negatives and no problem about the negative cats catching it. So if she keeps testing positive but you can't stand the thought of giving her up I don't think it would be wrong to bring her home to your other cat if you get him vaccinated. You would not be a bad mommy for doing that. But if you decide to find her another home that would be understandable. That decision would be up to you at that time. It's a tough one to make and I'm glad I don't have to do it. Keep us posted. I would love to hear how this turns out. Either way, you're doing a great job for Grace. Maureen “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain From: ka...@sonic.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 17:14:51 -0700 Subject: [Felvtalk] Discordant Results (ELISA+/IFA-) Hello, We recently adopted a spayed female adult cat (2-3 years of age), Grace, that was tested for FeLV/FIP (neg. results) upon intake in Oct 2009 by the rescue. She was retested the morning we took her home by the rescue's local vet with a low positive ELISA for FeLV (FIV still neg.). The rescue allowed me to take her on a foster agreement because of my dedication and experience level, not with this disease in particular, but with caring for animals in general (former vet tech, former assistant to a veterinary homeopath, past pet sitter, herbalist for animals and founder of a large raw feeders co-op). We drove a long distance to meet her (from San Francisco to the Oregon border) - requiring a stay in a pet-friendly hotel. She seemed healthy when we met her (we spent a few hours at the rescue, then stayed overnight and picked her up the next morning) but she sneezed a few times and had a tiny bit of snot while we drove away from the rescue in her crate, and had a few fairly dramatic sneezing fits overnight in the hotel, but seemed otherwise healthy and has a wonderful, strong appetite and normal elimination. She developed a full blown URI in the days following and we had her retested by a local feline specialist. She had a positive FeLV ELISA and negative IFA. We have not brought her home yet as I have one very healthy 4 yr old male neutered cat at home that has never been exposed to any cat illnesses. I am keeping the new kitty, Grace, at my work office and warehouse (it's my own
[Felvtalk] FW: Pet Armor/Diatomaceous Earth
From: molvey...@hotmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 19:18:36 -0400 It's so funny that this conversation has come up because I was just discussing it with my feline asthma group. Beth, I'm in GA also and having major major flea problems. I have a cat fence up so all my cats go in the backyard. That is making things ten times worse. I've been using Revolution for several years now with no problems. Like you, I work in a rescue and have a lot of cats so I buy the dog size and split it up between the cats. I don't know if the Revolution isn't working this year or if it's just an especially bad year for fleas. If you say Advantage isn't working then maybe it's just an especially bad year. Some people in the other group were talking about how sometimes switching products can help because either the fleas have built up a tolerance to the current flea meds or maybe the cat's system is processing the flea stuff differently because they've had it on them for so long. Who knows. If you've been using Advantage maybe you should try Revolution or Frontline Plus. I believe Frontline Plus kills fleas and larvae so it kills and breaks the life cycle so that might be a good one too. I hate using all these chemicals on my cats but there's no way around it for me because I've got so many plus a few ferals that live here that I can't touch. I've never sprayed my yard but since this year is so bad I've got to do something. I'm trying to go natural first because like everyone else is saying all these chemicals for yards say don't get on skin, don't get in eyes, don't inhale, etc. etc. and keep pets and children off until it dries and that really scares me. If my cats didn't go out I'd spray the yard with every poison I could find because I hate the fleas so bad. But since they do, for now I'm trying the beneficial nematodes and I just bought the food grade diatomaceous earth. I've been using Flea Stoppers in the house which is a borax type of product. Well, I just sprayed the nematodes last week so I can't tell if they're working yet because they just eat larvae so they don't kill adult fleas so it'll take a while to make a difference. But if anyone wants to try them I got them at Pike's nursery for $39.95. I think you can order them online also. I don't remember if the nematodes do anything for ticks. The diatomaceous earth I got from a local feed store. It's the food grade and a lot cheaper than ordering online, so if any of you are thinking of trying it check your feed stores first. I got a 50 lb bag for $39.95 and this stuff will last forever. I can't believe how little it takes. I didn't need a bag that big but that's all she had. I'm using it outside to try to hopefully kill the adult fleas and putting a little in my cat's coats. It's very very very dusty so you definitely need a mask on when messing wtih it. I am hesistant about using it in the house because it is so so dusty. That's why I went with the borax inside in the carpets. I did put the diatomaceous earth on the cat trees and their bedding though. The DE is the consistency of flour. Feels just like it and is dusty just like it. I put some on some of my cats and when they shake you can see a dust cloud around them. So for now I'm glad I didn't put it everywhere in the house. I think the Flea Stoppers with the borox has helped but I'm also vacuuming every couple of days which makes a big difference. I've put the diatomaceous earth on several of my cat's then checked them when they come in from outside. They are still coming in with fleas but I don't think it is as many. The DE doesn't kill the fleas right away either. It just cuts them and the fleas dehydrate and die so I'm thinking it will take a week or more before it really starts cutting down the flea population. If anyone puts it on their cat I'll just warn you that it does make the coat dry feeling. Still better than fleas if you ask me. Of course the cats are going to clean themselves and injest the DE so it's very important to get the food grade stuff. They use it in other forms, like in swimming pools, and it's very toxic. I haven't put the DE in my cats' food yet but a woman in my feline asthma group swears by it and she uses it and puts it in her cats' food and has for years and says they always test negative for worms. She puts it in her coffee and says she can see differences since she started using it. Well, just thought I'd share the things I'm trying. I'm still putting Revolution on the cats because I've got a lot of it but if I don't start seeing a difference soon I'll probably switch to either Frontline Plus or Advantage. Nothing has made a big difference so far, except the borax and the vaccuming, but I think that's because there are so many fleas outside that every time the cats go out they pick up 100
Re: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor
Why is it that your vet hates Revolution? Has he had a lot of cats with bad reactions to it? “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 11:48:04 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor Sorry - my cat sent this before it was done. Don't read the previous one, it doesn't make sense - I was inserting something. This is it: I think that the problem is that when cats are in poor health, underweight, pregnant, after surgerythey should NOT be vaccinated or treated with poisons like flea stuff, ever. My vet really has a strong dislike of Revolution; he's never had any incidents with other products, other than Zodiak. But then, again, he doesn't use them indiscriminately, only when it's perfectly safe, cats are in good shape, and he observes them and asks clients to do so and report ANY change in the cat after the use of those products. The reason we use the stuff around the house is because fleas can easily get into the garage, and our dog goes out and could bring them inside even though she is treated with frontline. However, one can also bring a flea inside on one's clothes - VOILA, the beginning of many little ones in the making. -Original Message- From: Natalie [mailto:at...@optonline.net] Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2011 11:45 AM To: 'felvtalk@felineleukemia.org' Subject: RE: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor I think that the problem is that when cats are in poor health, underweight, pregnant, after surgerythey should NOT be vaccinated or treated with poisons like flea stuff, ever. My vet really has a strong dislike of Revolution; he's never had any incidents with other products, other than Zodiak. But then, again, he doesn'y use them indiscriminately, only when it's The reason we use the stuff around the house is because fleas can easily get into the garage, and our dog goes out and could bring them inside even though she is treated with frontline. However, one can also bring a flea inside on one's clothes - VOILA, the beginning of many little ones in the making. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of POTT, BEVERLY Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2011 11:09 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor Even if you have indoor-only cats, they can get fleas. A vet once told me, If a squirrel runs through your yard, you can have a flea infestation in the house. True, dat. My college roommate and I had three indoor cats, and one summer they all became so infested we had to bomb the house... Twice. (Interesting side-note: a flea can't live/reproduce off human blood) I have 12 cats and use Revolution on them. I don't put it on all of them at once- I stagger it and put it on two this week, two next week, etc. That seems to keep the fleas at bay. I'd also like to address Natalie's vet- I used to work for a vet (and at an animal shelter) and have seen numerous cats go into seizures and die from Frontline and Advantage, but never Revolution. Doesn't mean that it doesn't happen, I've just never seen or heard of it (and I know a lot of Crazy Cat People! haha). -Original Message- From: Natalie [mailto:at...@optonline.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 4:10 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor I'm not quite sure what Advantage does - you could look up each product and see their specifications. I just sent some suggestions to group; some we have used and are using, and some that I am considering, although what we have right now really works well on all the cats and the doggie. Although our cats don't go outside, they use the outdoor enclosures, thereby possible being exposed to fleas. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor
Glad to hear of someone that has used the nematodes. I just sprayed my little creatures out a week and a half ago so I really really hope it makes a difference for the fleas. I don't want to use chemicals if I don't have to. I know the nematodes can only survive in shade and supposedly fleas like the shade and don't hang out in the sun either. Have you heard that? But, just in case my fleas are sun lovers I spread that diatomaceous earth all over my yard yesterday, except in the shade where I had sprayed the nematodes. Like I said in that other e-mail, the DE looks like flour. So now my whole yard is covered with this white powder and it looks like a bakery blew up. Either that or it looks like a cocaine plant exploded. How often do you guys spray the nematodes? I heard twice a year would be good enough. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 11:13:59 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor Zodiak flea and tick products were the real killers of cats and dogs a few years ago. Because I am a rescuer and we are housing so many cats all over the house and garage, feral, semi-feral, and friendly cats - there is NO way that I could treat each one individually - the cost would be prohibitive. That's why my husband uses the friendly nematodes to spray around the house, around the cat enclosures - it's worked so far. Rain does affect it to some degree, but we try to space the spraying right after a rain and not just before. If I do use any product, it's when a cat is first introduced if it happens to be flea-ridden, and before a cat is adopted, it's Frontline - which my vet recommends if one must use something. That's why I am also looking for alternatives to frontline, such as the cedar products that I sent yesterday to the group. I've heard from others that they are effective. Flea collars are absolutely useless; they're poisons directly on a cat's neck all the time, many cats develop baldness and irritation, and you can still find fleas even under those collars - so what good is it? The fewer toxins we can use, the better it is for cats' health, especially those that aren't well, why bombard them with more stuff that their immune systems can't deal with and need to fight their own illnesses. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor
It's the food grade version of the diatomaceous earth. It's safe as long as you get the food grade. The kind you put in your swimming pool is very toxic. The brand name I got was Perma-Guard I think. You can probably google it but I'm sure if you google just diatomaceous earth you'll get lots of info about the food grade. The kind you put in your pool has been somewhat altered which is what makes it toxic. Lots of people actually take a small amount of the food grade daily like you would a supplement. Even some people said they put it in their pet's food because it acts as a dewormer. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 13:43:02 -0500 From: longhornf...@verizon.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor Is the diatomaceous earth product you are talking about the same as what we have to put in our pool? Just wondering. Did I miss something along the way? My apologies if I did. Thanks, Lynda - Original Message - From: Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2011 11:50 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor Glad to hear of someone that has used the nematodes. I just sprayed my little creatures out a week and a half ago so I really really hope it makes a difference for the fleas. I don't want to use chemicals if I don't have to. I know the nematodes can only survive in shade and supposedly fleas like the shade and don't hang out in the sun either. Have you heard that? But, just in case my fleas are sun lovers I spread that diatomaceous earth all over my yard yesterday, except in the shade where I had sprayed the nematodes. Like I said in that other e-mail, the DE looks like flour. So now my whole yard is covered with this white powder and it looks like a bakery blew up. Either that or it looks like a cocaine plant exploded. How often do you guys spray the nematodes? I heard twice a year would be good enough. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 11:13:59 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor Zodiak flea and tick products were the real killers of cats and dogs a few years ago. Because I am a rescuer and we are housing so many cats all over the house and garage, feral, semi-feral, and friendly cats - there is NO way that I could treat each one individually - the cost would be prohibitive. That's why my husband uses the friendly nematodes to spray around the house, around the cat enclosures - it's worked so far. Rain does affect it to some degree, but we try to space the spraying right after a rain and not just before. If I do use any product, it's when a cat is first introduced if it happens to be flea-ridden, and before a cat is adopted, it's Frontline - which my vet recommends if one must use something. That's why I am also looking for alternatives to frontline, such as the cedar products that I sent yesterday to the group. I've heard from others that they are effective. Flea collars are absolutely useless; they're poisons directly on a cat's neck all the time, many cats develop baldness and irritation, and you can still find fleas even under those collars - so what good is it? The fewer toxins we can use, the better it is for cats' health, especially those that aren't well, why bombard them with more stuff that their immune systems can't deal with and need to fight their own illnesses. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor
Glad you asked too!!! Hate to be responsible for killing your cats. You'd probably come find me and kill me because I know you love your baby Sugar. The food grade can sometimes be bought from a local feed store because they also give it to cows and horses. I got a 50 lb bag for $39.95 and I have no idea how I'll ever use it all up. Even after spreading it in my yard I've got a ton left. The feed store didn't have any smaller bags though, but it doesn't go bad so I'll have plenty to use next year too. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 14:21:35 -0500 From: longhornf...@verizon.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor ok, thanksso glad I asked! Whew!! - Original Message - From: Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2011 2:11 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor It's the food grade version of the diatomaceous earth. It's safe as long as you get the food grade. The kind you put in your swimming pool is very toxic. The brand name I got was Perma-Guard I think. You can probably google it but I'm sure if you google just diatomaceous earth you'll get lots of info about the food grade. The kind you put in your pool has been somewhat altered which is what makes it toxic. Lots of people actually take a small amount of the food grade daily like you would a supplement. Even some people said they put it in their pet's food because it acts as a dewormer. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 13:43:02 -0500 From: longhornf...@verizon.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor Is the diatomaceous earth product you are talking about the same as what we have to put in our pool? Just wondering. Did I miss something along the way? My apologies if I did. Thanks, Lynda - Original Message - From: Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2011 11:50 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor Glad to hear of someone that has used the nematodes. I just sprayed my little creatures out a week and a half ago so I really really hope it makes a difference for the fleas. I don't want to use chemicals if I don't have to. I know the nematodes can only survive in shade and supposedly fleas like the shade and don't hang out in the sun either. Have you heard that? But, just in case my fleas are sun lovers I spread that diatomaceous earth all over my yard yesterday, except in the shade where I had sprayed the nematodes. Like I said in that other e-mail, the DE looks like flour. So now my whole yard is covered with this white powder and it looks like a bakery blew up. Either that or it looks like a cocaine plant exploded. How often do you guys spray the nematodes? I heard twice a year would be good enough. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 11:13:59 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor Zodiak flea and tick products were the real killers of cats and dogs a few years ago. Because I am a rescuer and we are housing so many cats all over the house and garage, feral, semi-feral, and friendly cats - there is NO way that I could treat each one individually - the cost would be prohibitive. That's why my husband uses the friendly nematodes to spray around the house, around the cat enclosures - it's worked so far. Rain does affect it to some degree, but we try to space the spraying right after a rain and not just before. If I do use any product, it's when a cat is first introduced if it happens to be flea-ridden, and before a cat is adopted, it's Frontline - which my vet recommends if one must use something. That's why I am also looking for alternatives to frontline, such as the cedar products that I sent yesterday to the group. I've heard from others that they are effective. Flea collars are absolutely useless
Re: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor
Wish they'd come in my yard and eat everything! I'm so tired of trimming shrubs and yard work. I used to like it but now I'm too busy with too many other things. My husband hates yard work worse than I do. I love to have a pretty yard but man it's a lot of work. If the deer came and tore it up then I'd have an excuse. Anyway, depending on the size of your property, I wonder if you planted a fruit tree or something they really liked at the far end of the property if they would stay with it and not come near your decorative plants. It might attract more deer though. I thought of it because at work we have some kind of big tree that puts out some kind of fruit (I don't even know what it is) and every year I see deer over there. I thought it was great and even put a salt lick over there. The thing is though that it's always two or three. I never see hoards and hoards of deer. Two or three come and eat and then they're gone. I work a lot of late evenings and I only see them here and there and only two or three at a time so they're not a major problem although there's plenty for them to eat and I would think more deer would come around. Wonder if they're territorial so they won't let other deer come eat their food. Well, just a thought. I know you don't want to attract deer but if they're coming no matter what and you're property is big enough just wondered if giving them something away from where you don't want them to be would help. As well as the wind chimes and other stuff. Probably would make it worse but I just wondered about it. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 09:55:22 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor It's interesting that everyone always complains about certain flowers and shrubs being eaten. We have over 50-yr old rhododendrons, never touched! Azaleas - never touched! I stopped growing tulips and daylilieswill plant daffodils next year - love them! If anyone is interested, there are lists of plants that are deer-resistant, quite a few of them online! -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaiMaiPG Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 8:49 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor Suggest that you try lots of wind chimescheap is fine. They seem to love hostas but don't touch the few I havewith chimes above them. Also suggest interplanting daffodils. On Jun 2, 2011, at 7:45 PM, Sally Davis wrote: OFF TOPIC RE: DEER I think there is another forum for this. I am sorry for posting here. Natalie, Hold on. I am not blaming the deer. I was over simplifying, so I apologize. I have oppossum raccoons and squirels too. I battle the deer beacuse they eat my daylilies. I have lived here for 25 years and five years ago the deer became a problem. NOT their fault but the fault of man. I will not get into that. I do not think the deer need to be shot or anything like that. I chose repellants to hopefully get them to change their browsing patterns. They are creatures of habit. I felt sorry for them two winters ago when there was no nut crop in the fall and we had lots of snow here in VA. They did a number on plants they rarely touched in the past so I know they were hungry. James do not boot me off. Sally ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor
Send them to me - my azalea bushes are overgrown and need trimming anyway! I used to have bunnies everywhere but now there's a few stray cats hanging around so I guess that's why they're not coming around anymore. I miss them though. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain From: longhornf...@verizon.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 10:04:39 -0500 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor Bunnies eat my azaleas :( - Original Message - From: Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, June 03, 2011 8:55 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor It's interesting that everyone always complains about certain flowers and shrubs being eaten. We have over 50-yr old rhododendrons, never touched! Azaleas - never touched! I stopped growing tulips and daylilieswill plant daffodils next year - love them! If anyone is interested, there are lists of plants that are deer-resistant, quite a few of them online! -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaiMaiPG Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 8:49 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor Suggest that you try lots of wind chimescheap is fine. They seem to love hostas but don't touch the few I havewith chimes above them. Also suggest interplanting daffodils. On Jun 2, 2011, at 7:45 PM, Sally Davis wrote: OFF TOPIC RE: DEER I think there is another forum for this. I am sorry for posting here. Natalie, Hold on. I am not blaming the deer. I was over simplifying, so I apologize. I have oppossum raccoons and squirels too. I battle the deer beacuse they eat my daylilies. I have lived here for 25 years and five years ago the deer became a problem. NOT their fault but the fault of man. I will not get into that. I do not think the deer need to be shot or anything like that. I chose repellants to hopefully get them to change their browsing patterns. They are creatures of habit. I felt sorry for them two winters ago when there was no nut crop in the fall and we had lots of snow here in VA. They did a number on plants they rarely touched in the past so I know they were hungry. James do not boot me off. Sally ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor
Better research to find out what kind of fence to get. I used to find baby bunnies in my fenced in backyard all the time. I had like one inch spaces in between the boards and I guess they could slip through there plus I'd find places where they had dug under the fence or chewed a little of the bottom of the fence to make a bigger space to come in. This was years before I had cats out there. My two dogs would only go out to pee so the bunnies had this nice protected fenced in yard to come and go in and have their babies. I found several of the nests out there and saw some really tiny ones. So cute. But if the object is to keep them away better find the right kind of fence. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 11:11:36 -0400 From: athenapities...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor Bunnies are eating all my seedlings. I'm going to have to get a fence... or something. I would get outdoor cats if my neighbor didn't have two very aggressive rotties. On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 11:04 AM, Lynda Wilson longhornf...@verizon.netwrote: Bunnies eat my azaleas :( - Original Message - From: Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, June 03, 2011 8:55 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor It's interesting that everyone always complains about certain flowers and shrubs being eaten. We have over 50-yr old rhododendrons, never touched! Azaleas - never touched! I stopped growing tulips and daylilieswill plant daffodils next year - love them! If anyone is interested, there are lists of plants that are deer-resistant, quite a few of them online! -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaiMaiPG Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 8:49 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor Suggest that you try lots of wind chimescheap is fine. They seem to love hostas but don't touch the few I havewith chimes above them. Also suggest interplanting daffodils. On Jun 2, 2011, at 7:45 PM, Sally Davis wrote: OFF TOPIC RE: DEER I think there is another forum for this. I am sorry for posting here. Natalie, Hold on. I am not blaming the deer. I was over simplifying, so I apologize. I have oppossum raccoons and squirels too. I battle the deer beacuse they eat my daylilies. I have lived here for 25 years and five years ago the deer became a problem. NOT their fault but the fault of man. I will not get into that. I do not think the deer need to be shot or anything like that. I chose repellants to hopefully get them to change their browsing patterns. They are creatures of habit. I felt sorry for them two winters ago when there was no nut crop in the fall and we had lots of snow here in VA. They did a number on plants they rarely touched in the past so I know they were hungry. James do not boot me off. Sally ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor
Speaking of fences ... I was supposed to send pictures of my cat fence to someone. Was it someone in this group? I don't think I ever sent them. I'm so out of it though so I can't even remember who wanted it and if I ever sent them. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain From: molvey...@hotmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 11:23:36 -0400 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor Better research to find out what kind of fence to get. I used to find baby bunnies in my fenced in backyard all the time. I had like one inch spaces in between the boards and I guess they could slip through there plus I'd find places where they had dug under the fence or chewed a little of the bottom of the fence to make a bigger space to come in. This was years before I had cats out there. My two dogs would only go out to pee so the bunnies had this nice protected fenced in yard to come and go in and have their babies. I found several of the nests out there and saw some really tiny ones. So cute. But if the object is to keep them away better find the right kind of fence. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 11:11:36 -0400 From: athenapities...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor Bunnies are eating all my seedlings. I'm going to have to get a fence... or something. I would get outdoor cats if my neighbor didn't have two very aggressive rotties. On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 11:04 AM, Lynda Wilson longhornf...@verizon.netwrote: Bunnies eat my azaleas :( - Original Message - From: Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, June 03, 2011 8:55 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor It's interesting that everyone always complains about certain flowers and shrubs being eaten. We have over 50-yr old rhododendrons, never touched! Azaleas - never touched! I stopped growing tulips and daylilieswill plant daffodils next year - love them! If anyone is interested, there are lists of plants that are deer-resistant, quite a few of them online! -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaiMaiPG Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 8:49 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor Suggest that you try lots of wind chimescheap is fine. They seem to love hostas but don't touch the few I havewith chimes above them. Also suggest interplanting daffodils. On Jun 2, 2011, at 7:45 PM, Sally Davis wrote: OFF TOPIC RE: DEER I think there is another forum for this. I am sorry for posting here. Natalie, Hold on. I am not blaming the deer. I was over simplifying, so I apologize. I have oppossum raccoons and squirels too. I battle the deer beacuse they eat my daylilies. I have lived here for 25 years and five years ago the deer became a problem. NOT their fault but the fault of man. I will not get into that. I do not think the deer need to be shot or anything like that. I chose repellants to hopefully get them to change their browsing patterns. They are creatures of habit. I felt sorry for them two winters ago when there was no nut crop in the fall and we had lots of snow here in VA. They did a number on plants they rarely touched in the past so I know they were hungry. James do not boot me off. Sally ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor
I read that too but I don't know which oils it is that can cause problems. Since I hadn't planned on using it I didn't look it up. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 10:02:58 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor I've read that one has to be extremely careful about using some essential oils on cats! -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of dlg...@windstream.net Sent: Friday, June 03, 2011 12:08 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor FOR BUGS, especially buffalo gnats, use 1 teaspoon REAL vanilla in 1 quart water. Spray it on the back of the cat's head and under their chin. Works with mosquitos also. Everyone around here who has chickens use this every day on them. If they don't, they loose a lot of chickens. The gnats clog up the nostrils and also bite them under their heads and they die of bood loss. Katy Doyle athenapities...@gmail.com wrote: Amen to flea collars! I've used Revolution on my FeLV+ cat, Buddy, since he was 5 weeks old and never had an incident. I am totally with you on minimizing chemicals that I put on myself and my animals. (I made my own bug spray out of olive oil and eucalyptus oil. Not 100% effective, but better than nothing.) This isn't approved for cats but I've switched my dog, Abbott, over to these garlic tablets for fleas and ticks, http://www.springtimeinc.com/product/bug_off_garlic_chewables/dogs I only just started it at the beginning of the year, but I haven't seen any fleas or ticks on him yet! I had to take Abbott off of Revolution because he got whip worm, so now he's on Interceptor for anti-worms. I can't use Front Line on any of my animals because I have a close friend that has food poisoning-like reations when she comes in contact with animals that have it on them. She is a rare case and she loves my animals, so I am trying alternatives :-) And the Bug Off Garlic seems to be doing the trick! You can also use the Bug Off Garlic on yourself (I'm considering trying it), you just follow the weight chart. I also hear that garlic and brewer's yeast works very well. I wonder if it is safe to use on cats... If it is, you can mix the garlic and brewer's yeast power in with their food, this way you don't have to catch them to administer it... Ideas, ideas! On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 11:48 AM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: Sorry - my cat sent this before it was done. Don't read the previous one, it doesn't make sense - I was inserting something. This is it: I think that the problem is that when cats are in poor health, underweight, pregnant, after surgerythey should NOT be vaccinated or treated with poisons like flea stuff, ever. My vet really has a strong dislike of Revolution; he's never had any incidents with other products, other than Zodiak. But then, again, he doesn't use them indiscriminately, only when it's perfectly safe, cats are in good shape, and he observes them and asks clients to do so and report ANY change in the cat after the use of those products. The reason we use the stuff around the house is because fleas can easily get into the garage, and our dog goes out and could bring them inside even though she is treated with frontline. However, one can also bring a flea inside on one's clothes - VOILA, the beginning of many little ones in the making. -Original Message- From: Natalie [mailto:at...@optonline.net] Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2011 11:45 AM To: 'felvtalk@felineleukemia.org' Subject: RE: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor I think that the problem is that when cats are in poor health, underweight, pregnant, after surgerythey should NOT be vaccinated or treated with poisons like flea stuff, ever. My vet really has a strong dislike of Revolution; he's never had any incidents with other products, other than Zodiak. But then, again, he doesn'y use them indiscriminately, only when it's The reason we use the stuff around the house is because fleas can easily get into the garage, and our dog goes out and could bring them inside even though she is treated with frontline. However, one can also bring a flea inside on one's clothes - VOILA, the beginning of many little ones in the making. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of POTT, BEVERLY Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2011 11:09
Re: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor
No, it wasn't you but I can send them to you too. The name Debbie comes to mind but I'm not sure about that either. I'm in a feline asthma group too so it may have been someone from there. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 11:51:22 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor Was it to me? I think I was going to send some of my outdoor enclosures - but it has to be provate because this site doesn't accept anything larger than, is it 20MB? -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Maureen Olvey Sent: Friday, June 03, 2011 11:29 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor Speaking of fences ... I was supposed to send pictures of my cat fence to someone. Was it someone in this group? I don't think I ever sent them. I'm so out of it though so I can't even remember who wanted it and if I ever sent them. I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn't..the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further. - Mark Twain From: molvey...@hotmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 11:23:36 -0400 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor Better research to find out what kind of fence to get. I used to find baby bunnies in my fenced in backyard all the time. I had like one inch spaces in between the boards and I guess they could slip through there plus I'd find places where they had dug under the fence or chewed a little of the bottom of the fence to make a bigger space to come in. This was years before I had cats out there. My two dogs would only go out to pee so the bunnies had this nice protected fenced in yard to come and go in and have their babies. I found several of the nests out there and saw some really tiny ones. So cute. But if the object is to keep them away better find the right kind of fence. I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn't..the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further. - Mark Twain Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 11:11:36 -0400 From: athenapities...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor Bunnies are eating all my seedlings. I'm going to have to get a fence... or something. I would get outdoor cats if my neighbor didn't have two very aggressive rotties. On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 11:04 AM, Lynda Wilson longhornf...@verizon.netwrote: Bunnies eat my azaleas :( - Original Message - From: Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, June 03, 2011 8:55 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor It's interesting that everyone always complains about certain flowers and shrubs being eaten. We have over 50-yr old rhododendrons, never touched! Azaleas - never touched! I stopped growing tulips and daylilieswill plant daffodils next year - love them! If anyone is interested, there are lists of plants that are deer-resistant, quite a few of them online! -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaiMaiPG Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 8:49 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor Suggest that you try lots of wind chimescheap is fine. They seem to love hostas but don't touch the few I havewith chimes above them. Also suggest interplanting daffodils. On Jun 2, 2011, at 7:45 PM, Sally Davis wrote: OFF TOPIC RE: DEER I think there is another forum for this. I am sorry for posting here. Natalie, Hold on. I am not blaming the deer. I was over simplifying, so I apologize. I have oppossum raccoons and squirels too. I battle the deer beacuse they eat my daylilies. I have lived here for 25 years and five years ago the deer became a problem. NOT their fault but the fault of man. I will not get into that. I do not think the deer need to be shot or anything like that. I chose repellants to hopefully get them to change their browsing patterns. They are creatures of habit. I felt sorry for them
Re: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor
diatomaceous earth “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 22:43:46 -0500 From: dlg...@windstream.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor What is DE? Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: Sorry, I don't mean to change the subject from our cats do deer, but. I have to confess to you that I am very heavily involved in trying to remove all the unfair blame for black-legged ticks/Lyme disease cast on deer. Scientific studies have shown that the number of deer have nothing to do with the number of ticks, and Lyme disease. In Fairfield County, CT (where I live), deer densities are a lot higher per sq/mi than in Windham County, CT - yet, incidents of LD are a lot higher where the deer numbers are lower! When many deer are killed, the assumption is, wrongly, that the number of ticks will decrease! It only means that the remaining deer will have more ticks on them. When a deer is killed, ticks don't die with them (just as when an animal that is infested with fleas dies, the fleas merely jump off onto other animals.) As soon as the blood cools, parasites leave. The ONLY solution is to go after the ticks! Black-legged ticks do not require only deer to fulfill their life-cycle to lay eggs - any midsized mammal will serve that purpose (horses in horse country, cattle on farms, etc, family dogs and even opportune Homo sapiens). Even though one might want to lay blame on the dozens of small mammals and even birds that carry the Lyme disease-causing spirochete bacterium, WITHOUT black-legged ticks, the transmission of the bacterium could be accomplished without them! Therefore, the ONLY solution to eliminating LD is getting rid of the black-legged ticks! And again, I'm not sure that anyone has seriously considered DE for doing that! It would stand to reason that if DE destroys the outer waxy covering of fleas, dehydrating them, why wouldn't it do the same on ticks? Although, it seems that fleas are harder to crunch and kill than ticks when they are engorged fully with blood -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Sally Davis Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2011 8:57 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor Ticks are the worst near wooded areas and in the woods. They are in tall weeds, and shrubs. We have lots of deer and deer ticks, the smaller ticks carry lyme disease. It even the nymph stage can tramsmit lyme. The deer population has exploded here and so have the ticks. Last year the cats would get in a nest of then and be covered with the small nymph stage. They would engorge and I would have hundreds crawling on my bed. I uses a lint roller and duct tape to get them up, but what a pain. They are not as bad this year but I started using the Frontline earlier. Last year I had to rush out and get it where I could. I did not get the cheapest price, but I still bought the dog size. As for Revolution I was not going to go there but I did not have a problem with it. I have heard it is safer then the other fles controls, because it works in a different way. I am not doubting what your vet says. Poison is poison. Sometimes a cat will lose hair where it is applied and it says that. I did have this happen with one of my FeLV cats. He was the cat who probably had Feline infectious anemia which is transmitted by fleas so for him better to make sure there are no fleas it only takes one flea to infect a cat, and a feline leukemia postive cat cannot fight off the infection. I have not used the nematodes but I have been interested in doing so. I do not have a lawn and fleas tend to live in grassy areas. They just feed on our pets. Sally ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Cat Bite
OMG - when I got bit a couple months ago I just ran inside and washed it out really good with soap and water. That was it. Guess I was lucky. I had read that soap and water are good enough as long as you wash it good so now when I get scratched I just use soap and water. Anyway, I never went to the doc until three weeks later for something else. That's when I talked to him about it and he fussed at me. Guess I'll be more careful next time. Yikes! “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain From: sea7...@gmail.com Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2011 11:43:40 -0500 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Cat Bite Wash the wound with antibiotic soap and keep antibiotic ointment on it. Also treat with hot compresses. It will draw white blood cells to the area. The Dr told me to do this. Autumn bit the fire out of me when I was 6 months pregnant. My hand swelled up and was red and sore. I never developed streaks, but went to Urgent Care for antibiotics. Make sure you eat your yogurt, if you get them. They are STRONG. FELV + have filthy mouths:-/ I also urge you not to tell them that it was your cat. Just emphasize that said cat had it's rabies shot. ~Susan A Sent from my iPhone On Jun 4, 2011, at 8:07 AM, Jannes Taylor jannestay...@yahoo.com wrote: Last night I had Amber in my lap upstairs. I am trying to get her use to seeing the other cats and use to the upstairs life. I had the IFA test performed by another vet and will hear from it next week. I am being optimistic so I wanted to get a head start on getting her acclamated. My youngest cat Moses decided to suddenly jump in my lap with her and Amber freaked out! In the process of holding on to her she bit me very hard on my hand. It hurt so bad and still does. It is red and slightly swollen. My husband thinks I am being paranoid about it, but I had a friend who almost lost his arm due to infection from a cat bite. Should I visit the doctor?? Jannes ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Cat Bite
good thinking “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2011 12:41:01 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Cat Bite BTW - can you use one of the other cat's rabies certificate if you have to? Some cats look alike or maybe they don't describe them in some states. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2011 11:24 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Cat Bite My cat Pootie bit me in March and it was infected within 12 hours. I ended up in the ER and they said had I not come in, it could have killed me. Get to the ER and when asked whose cat just tell them yours and the cat has its shots. They never asked for proof of rabies on my cat, no one ever came to my house or called me nor did they even ask the cat's name. But, DO go to the doctor or ER ASAP. That is nothing to play around with. I was at the ER until 4:30 am getting IV antibiotics. Edna From: longhornf...@verizon.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2011 10:09:43 -0500 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Cat Bite I've read all the responses and everyone guided you well. If you don't have a rabies tag for her, then don't tell him it's your cat (like you were advised). In my opnion, I don't think they would let you quarantine her at home since you have other animals. It's not worth the risk. Please, please keep us posted. I do hope you have medicated it well after washing the affected area. Sending luck your way, Jannes! - Original Message - From: Jannes Taylor jannestay...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2011 8:07 AM Subject: [Felvtalk] Cat Bite Last night I had Amber in my lap upstairs. I am trying to get her use to seeing the other cats and use to the upstairs life. I had the IFA test performed by another vet and will hear from it next week. I am being optimistic so I wanted to get a head start on getting her acclamated. My youngest cat Moses decided to suddenly jump in my lap with her and Amber freaked out! In the process of holding on to her she bit me very hard on my hand. It hurt so bad and still does. It is red and slightly swollen. My husband thinks I am being paranoid about it, but I had a friend who almost lost his arm due to infection from a cat bite. Should I visit the doctor?? Jannes ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Dexter
I think talking with a feline cancer group will be helpful. I couldn't tell you because I don't know a lot about lymphosarcoma. I'm sure the vets are telling you to let him go but you have to make the call and don't do it until you're sure so you won't regret it and wonder later on. I guess it depends on the success rate of doing chemo on lymphosarcoma at this stage. Maybe you should try to consult with a vet oncologist immediately about his chances. If the chemo could give him several more months is it worth it? If the chemo could give him another year is it worth it? Chemo can be rough but I'm in a dog cancer group and usually after a few days of being sick after the chemo treatments the dogs are okay until the next round. I'm not sure how it affects cats though. My dog was diagnosed a couple months ago with bone cancer and chemo wasn't an option but radiation was an option for just a few extra months with him. I asked myself those questions about how long would it give him and would the pain he would endure be worth it. It's different for me because my dog is old so I had to take that into consideration. Seems like I read in one of the e-mails that Dexter isn't that old. Anyway, I had a little time because my dog wasn't in pain so I talked with two different oncologist and they both said the same thing. Talking with an specialist made me feel better about my decision.One thing I have learned from the dog bone cancer group I'm in is that there are no wrong decisions. You do what you think is right for Dexter. You know Dexter better than any vet so it's your call and it won't be a wrong decision.Maureen “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain From: skastel...@cicresearch.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 21:55:58 -0700 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Dexter Ben, my husband and I are praying that the best decision for Dex will become obvious to you, whatever that is. The most difficult decision is deciding that his quality of life...tubes, pills, anything out of the ordinary on a morre than temporary basis, would serve only those who will be left behind. God bless you and your family as you wrestle with this difficult decision. Dexterwe love you. Please..let your beloved Daddy look in your eyes and tell him what you need. Sara --Original Mail-- From: Ben Williams drsiebl...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 21:25:37 -0500 Subject: [Felvtalk] Dexter We are having a hard time making a very tough decision for Dexter. In the past three days, Dex has suffered facial and paw swelling and has started having difficulty breathing. Today has been bad and he is now receiving oxygen at the Dallas emergency vet clinic. X-rays show that he has lymph node involvement in every area and his liver and spleen are enlarged and have move out of the proper body cavity. This puts him in, I think, stage 4 of lymphosarcoma. He is whimpering and obviously in pain. We don't want to give up and we are willing to do chemo for him. We want to do what's best for Dexter, but it is so hard to make that final decision. Is it time for his suffering to be over? Does he have a chance? ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Dexter
I think you made a good decision because you will know that you have tried everything possible for him. I think wondering if you did enough is the worse thing. So no matter which way it goes you won't have any guilt.Dexter sounds like a wonderful boy and I pray he pulls right out of this like he did with the situation last October. Please keep us posted because I would love to know how this works for him. I would love to be able to tell other people that just because their cat has FeLV and lymphosarcoma it doesn't mean he's a goner and I can tell them all about Dexter's success story.Maureen “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain From: drsiebl...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2011 09:13:06 -0500 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Dexter They most certainly can communicate and they do it all the time. Cats naturally don't communicate verbally with each other, so when your cat meows at you, he's trying to speak your language, so to speak. If that's not direct communication, I don't know what is... We have Dex at his vet clinic now... He's calmer and more relaxed. He's starting chemo immediately. Thanks everyone... On Jul 5, 2011, at 8:29 AM, Sara Kasteleyn skastel...@cicresearch.com wrote: So happy you are all together again! Oh...those poor unfortunate people who think animals can't communicate! Best of luck today. Sara --Original Mail-- From: Ben Williams drsiebl...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tue, 5 Jul 2011 07:42:25 -0500 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Dexter Thanks to everyone for the kind words and encouragement... We spent some time with Dex at the clinic last night and we told ourselves that Dex would tell us what to do; that he'd let us know, somehow, what he wanted. Dex has always been a fighter - he came to us under the hood of a car that had carried him, at only 4 weeks of age, across town, on highways and bumpy roads. He clung to the engine of that car and came out covered in dirt, but full of love. He's been with us since then (only a year and a half) and we have become so close to him. We were told he didn't have a chance last October when his red blood cell counts were at 3 and we discovered he was felv and fiv positive. He bounced back quickly from the blood transfusion and seemed to return to normal quickly. It's been tough for the last three weeks as we've tried immunoregulin, acemannan and lymphocyte t-cell immunomodulator. He's been a trooper through it all and always has a sweet chirp and a purr. So, last night, his wagging tail and happiness at seeing us, combined with the relative calm he experienced when we were with him and the look of hope in his eyes told us we couldn't give up. So, I'm picking him up now and we are taking him to Dr. Wright at Lakewood Vet Center to hopefully start some other treatment to pull him out of this. He's a beautiful boy and we owe him every chance to live happily. Thanks, everyone. On Jul 5, 2011, at 1:42 AM, Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com wrote: I think talking with a feline cancer group will be helpful. I couldn't tell you because I don't know a lot about lymphosarcoma. I'm sure the vets are telling you to let him go but you have to make the call and don't do it until you're sure so you won't regret it and wonder later on. I guess it depends on the success rate of doing chemo on lymphosarcoma at this stage. Maybe you should try to consult with a vet oncologist immediately about his chances. If the chemo could give him several more months is it worth it? If the chemo could give him another year is it worth it? Chemo can be rough but I'm in a dog cancer group and usually after a few days of being sick after the chemo treatments the dogs are okay until the next round. I'm not sure how it affects cats though. My dog was diagnosed a couple months ago with bone cancer and chemo wasn't an option but radiation was an option for just a few extra months with him. I asked myself those questions about how long would it give him and would the pain he would endure be worth it. It's different for me because my dog is old so I had to take that into consideration. Seems like I read in one of the e-mails that Dexter isn't that old. Anyway, I had a little time because my dog wasn't in pain so I talked with two different oncologist and they both said the same thing. Talking with an specialist made me feel better about my decision.One thing I have learned from the dog bone cancer group I'm in is that there are no wrong decisions. You do what you
Re: [Felvtalk] Rescue Kitten FeLV+
Also - you mentioned that the vet isn't worried about her spreading it to your cat unless they bite. That sounds more like FIV. Are you sure he said Feline Leukemia or did he say Feline Aids? Just wanted to check because you mentioned the bite thing. Feline Leukemia can be spread much easier by like mutual grooming, food and water bowls, etc. (and bites of course). But Feline Aides (FIV) is spread by bites almost exclusively. It can't be spread by sharing food bowls or mutual grooming because the virus from the infected cat has to be injected straight into the bloodstream. I hope for the kitten's sake he meant to say feline aids but mis-spoke and said FeLV but was thinking of FIV. FIV is usually not nearly as devastating to the body and isn't as contagious so it's much better of the two dreadful diseases. Either way, Somewhere Sam is right. Need to re-test and two tests much match. If he meant FeLV definitely do an IFA but if he meant FIV then another snap test in a few weeks is probably enough because I don't think the snap test screws up the results of FIV quite as often as FeLV. Not sure but it seems that way from the reading I've done. It's true that you can't trust the results of the snap test on a young kitten either. I've had 3 kittens from a litter of 4 test positive for FIV but then 3 weeks later test negative. That's because they had the antibodies from the mother in their system and it made them test positive but as soon as they had stopped nursing and the antibodies cleared their system they tested negative. Did the vet mention calici virus? It's pronounced like ka-lee-see. That's another type of URI that can cause ulcers on the tongue. You treat it the same though and since it's a virus it just has to make it through the system. L-Lysine is a good supplement for the sniffles. If the ulcers are bad or if she gets too clogged up and she can't smell her food she may not want to eat so you just have to watch for that because young kittens dehydrate easily. You're so kind for taking her in. Check with the vet about FeLV versus FIV. Hopefully he just mis-spoke and hopefully the next snap test will be negative for both. I know Joey would love to have a playmate. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 08:04:34 -0700 From: sin...@sbcglobal.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Rescue Kitten FeLV+ The SNAP test is not as accurate as the maker has hyped, or most Vet's knowledge. Go to this link for Testing Protocols. http://www.felineleukemia.org/felvhlth.html http://www.winnfelinehealth.org/Pages/FeLV_Web.pdf Basically both tests the SNAP(Elisa) and the IFA results need to be the same results, otherwise the kitten/cat is still not a true positive. SomeWhere Sam From: Jenny Orvis mi...@cableone.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Fri, July 8, 2011 5:06:28 AM Subject: [Felvtalk] Rescue Kitten FeLV+ I just rescued a kitten two days ago, Cali. She was bullied by a dog so was looking a little rough. She's 8 weeks old. Broke my heart when I found her in the state she was in and I couldn't leave her. On the drive home she stayed in my arms clinging close. We stopped and got her a can of food and nearly snarfed the thing down in one setting! She's a very happy kitten, little skiddish, but happy. I took her to the vet yesterday. She has a sore on her tongue and a bit of a runny nose and small fever, and otherwise heart and lungs sound good. But, she tested positive for FeLV with the SNAP test. My heart just dropped. I have an 8 month old kitten also, Joey, who tested negative when we got him, and am worried about his health. He's up-to-date on all of his shots, and the vet is not concerned about it spreading to him too much other than biting. I've only had Cali for 48 hours and I'm already attached. I want to keep her, but am a bit worried about FeLV and Joey. I know I won't introduce the two until she's over her sniffles. She's in the spare bedroom all set up, and Joey is quite interested thankfully! Was afraid it'd be World War 3. I know I've read somewhere about a kitten being so young and testing positive, but actually not having it so I'm hoping that's what it is. She goes back in two weeks. I've just been worrying if I'm crazy for wanting to keep a possible FeLV+ kitten while my other baby is not positive. Any advice? ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___
Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =
Oh - since you guys mentioned asthma I just wanted to throw out there that if any of your kitties ever develop asthma there is a wonderful feline asthma group. The people on that list know more about it than a lot of vets because it's not that common and they've had years of experience with it. I have a cat with asthma and with their help I got him on inhaled medications, same kind that humans use, and it's wonderful and keeps his asthma under control. Not nearly as hard on the body as prednisone or other steroids which is how asthma in cats is usually controlled. Lots of vets have not had experience with using inhaled medications (Flovent) on cats so they either tell owners to put their cats on prednisone or steriod shots for the rest of their life. Or the vets that know about inhaled meds for cats will start them on the lowest dosage of Flovent and then when it doesn't help the asthma the vet thinks inhaled meds doesn't work for cats. This asthma group is great and can help get a kitty on the right dosage and give you lots of tips to get them used to using the Aerokat to do the inhaled treatments. I also use an online pharmacy called 4 Corners which is located in New Zealand, to get the meds. It's one third of the cost as the drugs in the U.S. Anyway, just wanted you guys to know so if you ever need help with an asthma kitty go straight to that group. I don't know what I would have done without them. My vet knew about asthma and even gave me an Aerokat but she didn't think it was easy to get a cat to take inhaled meds so she just recommended a steroid shot every 6 weeks. Thank God I found the group. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 09:51:15 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter = That's because we assume that everything we buy must be safe for them! It's a shame that we have to be so suspicious of everything and question every bit of info! -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Katy Doyle Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 9:40 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter = Wow... You know, the dusty clay litter gives me asthma attacks, I'm ashamed that I never thought of how it would affect my cats. On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 9:33 AM, Lynda Wilson longhornf...@verizon.netwrote: Thanks, Natalie. I've never used clay litter or anything that makes dust. Can you imagine being enclosed in a box with all that dust flying around. What were they thinking back in the day?! I've used Feline Pine for a long time and all my cats through the years have all accepted it. It sure keeps the smell down as well. The cheapest place to get it it Petsmart (not Petco, they are extremely higher for some reason). It last for a long time as well, but like I said, I dump it just to keep Sugar happy. Thanks so much :) Lynda - Original Message - From: Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 7:36 AM Subject: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter = Here's more, and this is just the tip of the iceberg! The #1 Authority On Pet Products, Care and Services Pet Owners Trust Most Kitty Litter with a Serious Warning Vets have been reporting more and more kitty illnesses related to litter. Certain litters are actually causing serious problems for our feline friends including asthma, bronchitis, intestinal blockage and possibly even lung cancer. Most litters are loaded with chemicals to reduce odor and help with absorption. These chemicals are released into the air when your cat digs in the litter box. The dust from the litter gets into the cat's lungs and can wreak havoc on its immune system, putting his or her health in jeopardy. With every visit to the litter box, your cat may be polluting its lungs. Damage can occur in just a short period of time. Clumping clay litter, which forms a hard ball when it gets wet, is one of the most harmful types on the market. Several brands use this clay to make their litter easier to scoop. What makes it clump? It's a natural clay ingredient called sodium bentonite. In this case, natural is not always safe. Here's the problem: When this clay gets wet it expands and forms a hard mass. So when your cat or kitten digs in the litter box it's stirring up clay dust and breathing it in. Once it gets into their lungs, it expands from the moisture, and in time builds up, causing all sorts of lung problems like the ones mentioned above. Some
Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =
Maybe your cat's poop doesn't stink! Maybe he's too good to have smelly poop! His name is Sugar after all. Just kidding. I can't imagine any cat not having smelly poop. Geez, couldn't believe the difference between my cat and my dog when I got my first cat about 6 or 7 years ago. It's funny how there are so many different experiences with the different kinds of litter. I guess that's why there are so many choices. It gets so confusing though. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain From: longhornf...@verizon.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 17:15:07 -0500 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter = I've never heard of that problem, but then I don't keep the litter boxes in a closed area like you would an adoption center. It's fine to use at home in an open area. I have 3 litter boxes with Feline Pine (non-pellet form) in our master bathroom. It actually controls the odors. I like it as well as the cats. - Original Message - From: Edna Taylor taylore...@msn.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 4:57 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter = I tried to respond earlier but it bounced back as too large however, I noticed that others have responded with no problems so I will try again (after deleting most of the original emails). I have used Feline Pine at home before and the rescue group I am with used to use it at their Petsmart adoptions. The smell (to me) was gawd awful after they had used the box even once and even customers complained about the smell in the adoption center. We had to go back to scoopable in both places but especially at the store because people would not go in to meet the cats due to the smell and it was scooped on a regular basis. For our house, we have switched from hooded boxes to large Rubbermaid Totes. Frank cuts a large hole in one end so the cats can get in and out and it prevents our elevator b*tt peers from peeing over the side. We also use a low dust litter. So far, our cats have done well and most of our cats are 12 and up. Edna Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 16:07:15 -0400 From: athenapities...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter = Oh - I just found a Petco version of the wheat litter, Sweat Scoop. It got good online reviews. On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 3:56 PM, Katy Doyle athenapities...@gmail.comwrote: Well, this has inspired me to check out Feline Pine - has anyone used it before? ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =
If your friends come to your house and leave rather quickly then it might smell. But if they stay and visit for a while then you're probably good ;-) Especially if you have friends that don't have pets, they can't tolerate the smell for long. I bet Sugar is something else. I've got one that doesn't think her poop smells either. Her name is Spaz and she lives up to it every day. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 17:39:04 -0500 From: longhornf...@verizon.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter = You are right Maureen, I can almost compare it to walking down the cereal isle in the grocery store, lol! There are too many choices of cat litters but they are finicky, right?! You may think that we are just used to the smell, but many of my friends are honest and outspoken. They say they can't tell I have cats, so I'm assuming they are being honest. Hopefully they really are! I don't want my house to smell like a ginormous litter box. Sugar does not think his poop stinks, so why should I, right?! Lol!! He's a keeper!! - Original Message - From: Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 5:30 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter = Maybe your cat's poop doesn't stink! Maybe he's too good to have smelly poop! His name is Sugar after all. Just kidding. I can't imagine any cat not having smelly poop. Geez, couldn't believe the difference between my cat and my dog when I got my first cat about 6 or 7 years ago. It's funny how there are so many different experiences with the different kinds of litter. I guess that's why there are so many choices. It gets so confusing though. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain From: longhornf...@verizon.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 17:15:07 -0500 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter = I've never heard of that problem, but then I don't keep the litter boxes in a closed area like you would an adoption center. It's fine to use at home in an open area. I have 3 litter boxes with Feline Pine (non-pellet form) in our master bathroom. It actually controls the odors. I like it as well as the cats. - Original Message - From: Edna Taylor taylore...@msn.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 4:57 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter = I tried to respond earlier but it bounced back as too large however, I noticed that others have responded with no problems so I will try again (after deleting most of the original emails). I have used Feline Pine at home before and the rescue group I am with used to use it at their Petsmart adoptions. The smell (to me) was gawd awful after they had used the box even once and even customers complained about the smell in the adoption center. We had to go back to scoopable in both places but especially at the store because people would not go in to meet the cats due to the smell and it was scooped on a regular basis. For our house, we have switched from hooded boxes to large Rubbermaid Totes. Frank cuts a large hole in one end so the cats can get in and out and it prevents our elevator b*tt peers from peeing over the side. We also use a low dust litter. So far, our cats have done well and most of our cats are 12 and up. Edna Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 16:07:15 -0400 From: athenapities...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter = Oh - I just found a Petco version of the wheat litter, Sweat Scoop. It got good online reviews. On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 3:56 PM, Katy Doyle athenapities...@gmail.comwrote: Well, this has inspired me to check out Feline Pine - has anyone used it before? ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http
Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =
I doubt she could compete with my FIV + cat. It has actually woken me up in the middle of the night. It's really bad because he doesn't cover so as soon as I get the first whiff of it I drop everything and go running to find which litterbox he used and cover it immediately. Even if I'm eating I put everything down and go take care of it. It's not like I could eat anymore anyway! Yuck. Lots of times in the middle of winter I have my patio door wide open to get the smell out. He's always had runny poop too. Think it's cause of the FIV? I heard that it can have that effect on them. But then I wondered if it's something else. Do any of you guys have FIV + cats that almost always have runny poops? “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 19:36:48 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter = We have an almost 19 yr old cat - I swear, I should market the smell of her poop: It could raise the dead! It is so potent, that I wait at night until she makes one or two before I go to bed.I bet she could win the International smelliest poop contest! -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Maureen Olvey Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 6:30 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter = Maybe your cat's poop doesn't stink! Maybe he's too good to have smelly poop! His name is Sugar after all. Just kidding. I can't imagine any cat not having smelly poop. Geez, couldn't believe the difference between my cat and my dog when I got my first cat about 6 or 7 years ago. It's funny how there are so many different experiences with the different kinds of litter. I guess that's why there are so many choices. It gets so confusing though. I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn't..the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further. - Mark Twain From: longhornf...@verizon.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 17:15:07 -0500 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter = I've never heard of that problem, but then I don't keep the litter boxes in a closed area like you would an adoption center. It's fine to use at home in an open area. I have 3 litter boxes with Feline Pine (non-pellet form) in our master bathroom. It actually controls the odors. I like it as well as the cats. - Original Message - From: Edna Taylor taylore...@msn.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 4:57 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter = I tried to respond earlier but it bounced back as too large however, I noticed that others have responded with no problems so I will try again (after deleting most of the original emails). I have used Feline Pine at home before and the rescue group I am with used to use it at their Petsmart adoptions. The smell (to me) was gawd awful after they had used the box even once and even customers complained about the smell in the adoption center. We had to go back to scoopable in both places but especially at the store because people would not go in to meet the cats due to the smell and it was scooped on a regular basis. For our house, we have switched from hooded boxes to large Rubbermaid Totes. Frank cuts a large hole in one end so the cats can get in and out and it prevents our elevator b*tt peers from peeing over the side. We also use a low dust litter. So far, our cats have done well and most of our cats are 12 and up. Edna Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 16:07:15 -0400 From: athenapities...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter = Oh - I just found a Petco version of the wheat litter, Sweat Scoop. It got good online reviews. On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 3:56 PM, Katy Doyle athenapities...@gmail.comwrote: Well, this has inspired me to check out Feline Pine - has anyone used it before? ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Hope, adult female testing faintly + on SNAP Sat, 7.23 AND Schmitzi, 10-week-old kitten
I agree with Natalie. Wait and re-test. So many other things could be making that noise in Hope's chest and the diarrhea. I think that certain parasites like giardia require a special kind of fecal test, not the normal ones that vets do, so that is definitely a possibility. Stress from being in the shelter could be another reason. One ELISA test is not enough to say that she definitely has FeLV so there's no need to tell animal control at this point. Especially since you are paying for everything and not them. It is weird that the vet vaccinated her against FeLV when she tested a faint positive. I had a friend tell me that her vet told her that the ELISA test is kind of sensitive and if it's not read at the time it is supposed to be read it can show a positive. For example, if they are supposed to let the test sit for 10 minutes, but they let it sit for 15 minutes before checking it then it could show a positive. It's also possible for her to extinguish the virus so you need to give her time, if you can, to see if her immune system can do it's job. You don't have bad judgement, just an extremely kind heart. Every cat is special and deserves a chance. Maureen “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 13:12:17 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Hope, adult female testing faintly + on SNAP Sat, 7.23 AND Schmitzi, 10-week-old kitten 10 weeks old could be an iffy age to test, that's why results could be iffy, and if exposed, the kittens may shed the faint positive when their immune systems develop. It would be important to feed them good supplements, good diet. My vet would NOT have used all those vaccines at the same time when their health was questionable - it's too much bombarding them with all those vaccines. If cats had the ELISA now, and they were negative, or tested faintly, to make sure, they should have another ELISA in 90 days, and if that is negative and you are satisfied, that should be IT. If the ELISA were to be positive, the IFA should be done almost immediately to confirm because ELISAs are often false positives. Seems that there's something else going on, like an URI, giardia (diarrhea). -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of czadna sacarawicz Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 11:40 AM To: feline leukemia list Subject: [Felvtalk] Hope, adult female testing faintly + on SNAP Sat, 7.23 AND Schmitzi, 10-week-old kitten what is done is done and don't ask me why or how. it is. don't ask me why AC didn't identify a sick-appearing cat am fostering these two from gassing-daily county pound since 7.16. suspected Hope had feline leukemia when I picked her up - - THIN and HOT. She and Schmitzi were housed side by side i.e. nose to nose for a week. spending my $. both have diarrhea. vet found them both negative for fecal parasites. gave Schmitzi strongid, gave me albon to give her and vaccinated her for feline leukemia, panleukopenia, herpes and calcivirus. next step is to do an IFA on Hope? interval? HOPE is not suffering. inactive. poor appetite. very, very sweet. if I tell AC chief she tested + I believe he will demand and gas her. lethal injection is supposed to be used for sick animals. WHAT WOULD YOU DO? both FIV negative. something going on in Hope's chest. periodic. not exactly like a sneeze or cough. vet did give azithromycin capsules any comments, other than the obvious - - this woman has no/poor judgment - - will be appreciated. thank you. c ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] doubts on two FeLV positive kitties
The IFA is definitely the test to trust but from what I understand if the first snap test is positive then you need to do further testing like the IFA and to be safe you really need two tests with the same results to know for sure. You would need either two IFA tests a few months apart that are both negative or an IFA and another snap test that are both negative. So if you do an IFA now and the results are negative then you should still wait and do another test later on. Since your first snap test showed positive you could do an IFA now. If the IFA is negative right now then next time, a few months later if possible, you do either a snap test or another IFA test and the result should be negative also. It's really confusing because the different test look at different things but I would definitely trust an IFA over a snap test. Here's how I understand how the virus works, of course this is from a lay perspective as I'm not in the medical field whatsoever: After the cat has contracted the virus it will first be in his bloodstream and saliva and urine. At this point the virus has not yet progressed into his white blood cells so the cat's immune system could still extinguish the virus before the virus really takes hold in the body. A snap test right now would show positive but the IFA would be negative. That's because the snap test looks to see if the virus is in the bloodstream but the IFA test looks to see if the virus is in the white blood cells. After a certain amount of time, some say three months some say six months, the virus will either be extinguished or will have gone into the white blood cells. If the virus has been extinguished then a snap test and an IFA test will both be negative. But if the immune system was not able to extinguish the virus and it has really taken hold of the cat and progressed into the white blood cells then both a snap test and an IFA test will be positive. In this case the cat will never be able to extinguish the virus. Once the virus has progressed from his bloodstream into his white blood cells he won't be able to get rid of the virus so if the IFA ever comes back positive then there's no need to do any more testing. Does this make sense? I could be wrong but from what I've read and gotten from vets this is how it goes. Of course there's a third option where the cat's immune system puts the virus into dormancy but no need to go into that right now. So never completely trust the snap test and if it ever comes out positive then more testing must be done. What order and how much time you wait in between the tests are the variables. If you think the first snap test was done incorrectly and the results were wrong then you could do another snap test. If a second snap test comes out negative then probably the cats are fine and you don't need to do anymore testing. It just means they did the first snap test wrong. But, if a second snap test comes out positive then it means the virus is definitely in the bloodstream and you need to do an IFA test because it's not necessarily in the white blood cells. Or, instead of doing that second snap test you could just do an IFA test. If you assume the first snap test was done correctly and the positive reading was correct then don't bother with another snap test just do an IFA test to see if the virus has progressed from the bloodstream into the white blood cells. Like I said, the snap test means the virus is in the bloodstream but the IFA test is to see if the virus is into the white blood cells. The results of the IFA test will tell you whether you need more testing after that. I would only do a second snap before doing an IFA if I had a suspicion that the first snap test was done wrong for whatever reason. I hope I made sense. Lots of times I say too much and confuse everyone. I did that in our rescue recently when we came across a positive nursing mother and I was trying to explain the testing procedures and what they mean. We were trying to decide whether to do a second snap test or do an IFA right away or just wait a couple months and do an IFA then. The mama and kittens weren't ready for adoption anyway so we just ended up waiting a couple months then doing an IFA on the mama cat. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain From: ho...@sonic.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2011 18:57:26 -0700 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] doubts on two FeLV positive kitties If I may... The IFA is more expensive, but results are more reliable. My vest advised, If the snap (vet's office) test is positive, you need to do IFA. If the snap is
Re: [Felvtalk] doubts on two FeLV positive kitties
Those two little babies are so adorable. I really hope they turn out to be negative. How did you manage to get them to be still to take such great photos? When I try to take photos of my fosters for our website they are too busy playing to sit still for a photo shoot. I didn't foster the mama kitty or kittens that had FeLV but last I heard they waited like a month and a half and did the IFA on the mama kitty which turned out to be negative. They did individual snap test on the four kittens. Two of the four kittens tested positive on the snap test and the other two tested negative. So weird. They were able to adopt out the two negative kittens, same home I believe, although they did tell the adopters about the Mama and the two positive littermates. The other two littermates haven't been adopted yet. I'm not sure about the Mama cat. I'll have to e-mail them to find out what's going on right now. They really need to re-test the Mama and the two positive kittens and I don't know if they realize it. Good thing you sent this e-mail so I'd remember to talk with them. I have this book called The Cat Owner's Home Veterinary Handbook which is written by several different vets and I'll write exactly what they say about testing. It's a little long so just ignore this next part if you don't want to know. Currently there are two tests available to detect FeLV infection. 1. The IFA test, performed by a reference laboratory, detects virus antigen in infected white blood cells. This indicates that the bone marrow is infected and there is a high probability that the cat is persistently viremic and is shedding the virus in his saliva, making him infective to other cats. About 97 percent of IFA positive cats remain viremic for life and never extinguish the virus. 2. The ELISA test detects virus antigen in whole blood, serum, saliva and tears. Blood is the recommended sample for testing. A rapid screening leukemia test kit is available for home and veterinary clinic use. The ELISA test is more likely to detect weak, early, or transient infections. The common practice is to screen for FeLV using the ELISA test. If positive, the cat may have a transient viremia from which he will recover completely, or he may be in the early stages of a progressive infection. A positive ELISA test should be confirmed with an IFA test. A positive IFA test indicates that the cat is shedding virus and is capable of infecting others. The ELISA test should be repeated in 8 to 12 weeks to see if the virus has been eliminated. The IFA test should also be repeated at this time because if the cat was in an early stage of infection, the IFA initially may not have been positive but may become so after 12 weeks. That's the direct quote from the book. The books also mentions about latent (dormant) type infections where the cat is able to eliminate the virus from blood and saliva but the virus still persists in the bone marrow and in T-cell lymphocytes. It says over many months the majority of latent-infected cats overcome and extinguish the virus, so the incidence of latent infection after three years is quite low. During this period of latency though it talks about sometimes stress and illness can reactivate the virus. As far as testing to find out if a cat has a latent virus it says - Cats with latent infection test negative on both the ELISA and the IFA tests. This is because the virus is absent in both serum and white cells. The only way to diagnose a latent infection is to remove a sample of the cat's bone marrow containing the dormant virus and grow the cells in culture. Well, that's what the book says anyway. Not that it is an absolute authority but most of the other reading seems to say the same thing. What's funny is that you could have a cat that has a latent infection and you would never know it unless the virus got reactivated and the cat became sick. So you could do 10 different test on the cat and they would all be negative but then a year later the virus could become reactived then the cat tests positive. I look at all my cats and my fosters and wonder if any of them have a latent infection. You just never know and that's the really scary part. One encouraging thing though is that only about 30% of the cats exposed to the virus actually become permanently infected and will die from the disease. Of course 30% is still too many. The problem we in rescue have is that keeping the cat for 12 weeks and doing several different test before trying to adopt out is not always possible. It sucks. As far as immune system stimulants, I'm not sure what to recommend. I hear of so many different things that I can't remember what does what and what is good for what. I would think a decent diet is a good basis to start with. Probably not the cheapest cat food they sell. But the supplements are just way too confusing
Re: [Felvtalk] doubts on two FeLV positive kitties
I always thought they could spread it if positive on ELISA but the book didn't say that so I wonder. The book made it sound like they would only be shedding the virus and contagious if the IFA was positive. It said that the ELISA test for the virus antigen that's in the blood, serum, saliva and tears. I looked up antigen before to see exactly what that was, you know like whether it was the virus itself or like an antibody, but I don't remember what it said. I know it's not like an antibody. I'm not in the medical field so I have to look up a lot of stuff. So is the virus antigen the same as the virus itself? I need to go look that up again to try to understand again exactly what an antigen is. If the virus antigen is in the blood and saliva and the antigen is the same as the virus then why couldn't they spread the virus if the ELISA test is positive but the IFA test negative. I've just confused myself all over again ;-) Interesting enough, somewhere else it did say that if there was a latent infection, meaning the virus is only in the bone marrow and T-cell lymphocytes (whatever that is), a mama cat could infect her kitten in utero or while nursing. I'm not sure if that means that the virus reactivates during pregnancy or if the kittens can get a dormant virus. It's all so confusing. But, I would like to know if the virus can be shed when the ELISA is positive but the IFA is negative so if anybody has any thoughts let me know. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 18:00:22 -0500 From: longhornf...@verizon.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] doubts on two FeLV positive kitties I wonder if the cats/kittens can shed the virus if a positive is on an ELISA test? That would be so helpful to know, but I read that scientists could not determine when the virus actually sheds :( - Original Message - From: Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 5:31 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] doubts on two FeLV positive kitties Those two little babies are so adorable. I really hope they turn out to be negative. How did you manage to get them to be still to take such great photos? When I try to take photos of my fosters for our website they are too busy playing to sit still for a photo shoot. I didn't foster the mama kitty or kittens that had FeLV but last I heard they waited like a month and a half and did the IFA on the mama kitty which turned out to be negative. They did individual snap test on the four kittens. Two of the four kittens tested positive on the snap test and the other two tested negative. So weird. They were able to adopt out the two negative kittens, same home I believe, although they did tell the adopters about the Mama and the two positive littermates. The other two littermates haven't been adopted yet. I'm not sure about the Mama cat. I'll have to e-mail them to find out what's going on right now. They really need to re-test the Mama and the two positive kittens and I don't know if they realize it. Good thing you sent this e-mail so I'd remember to talk with them. I have this book called The Cat Owner's Home Veterinary Handbook which is written by several different vets and I'll write exactly what they say about testing. It's a little long so just ignore this next part if you don't want to know. Currently there are two tests available to detect FeLV infection. 1. The IFA test, performed by a reference laboratory, detects virus antigen in infected white blood cells. This indicates that the bone marrow is infected and there is a high probability that the cat is persistently viremic and is shedding the virus in his saliva, making him infective to other cats. About 97 percent of IFA positive cats remain viremic for life and never extinguish the virus. 2. The ELISA test detects virus antigen in whole blood, serum, saliva and tears. Blood is the recommended sample for testing. A rapid screening leukemia test kit is available for home and veterinary clinic use. The ELISA test is more likely to detect weak, early, or transient infections. The common practice is to screen for FeLV using the ELISA test. If positive, the cat may have a transient viremia from which he will recover completely, or he may be in the early stages of a progressive infection. A positive ELISA test should be confirmed with an IFA test. A positive IFA test indicates that the cat is shedding virus and is capable of infecting others. The ELISA test should be repeated in 8 to 12 weeks to see if the virus has
Re: [Felvtalk] doubts on two FeLV positive kitties
An antigen is any substance that causes your body to produce antibodies. Foreign substances such as chemicals, bacteria, viruses, and pollen are antigens. So since a virus is an antigen it kind of sounds stupid to say the ELISA test for the FeLV virus antigen. It sounds like it's saying the same thing twice - it's testing for the virus virus. I guess it just sounds more medical to say virus antigen instead of just virus. Anyway, logically if the ELISA detects the virus in the saliva, blood, etc. it seems like it would be contagious at that point. But if the experts are saying that isn't so then I can't argue. Maybe it does have something to do with the virus getting into the white blood cells and bone marrow before it can be spread, like you were saying. Haven't read that but it is kind of curious. This disease never makes sense and for every rule there's an exception. Oh, one thing in my book said that one reason not all cats exposed to it don't get it is because they are not exposed to it often enough. Like eating after another cat one time is not enough for the virus to spread. It takes a long time, usually a couple months or so at least, with continuous exposure for a cat to pick up the virus from another cat. The book said about 30 % of cats exposed to the virus don't get it because either they're resistant or don't have enough exposure to it. Another 30 % get it but are able to extinguish it before it gets into their white blood cells or bone marrow. 5 - 10 % put the disease into latentcy and then the remaining 30% are the ones that get the virus and are not able to fight it off and will test positive on the IFA and usually die from the disease. Still don't know the answer to the question of whether the virus can be shed at the stage where the ELISA is positive but the IFA is negative. If anyone finds out let us know. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 19:30:04 -0500 From: longhornf...@verizon.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] doubts on two FeLV positive kitties Great observations and lots of mystery with this horrible disease. It would be great if you can find out from that book about what an antigen is and how it works with the virus. I'm no expert but have researched so much. It would be such a relief to all of us if we knew if the virus could be shed if the ELISA test is a true positive (meaning it is in their saliva, blood, etc) or does it have to reach the bone marrow first? Maybe that could also explain why some contract it and others don't. Am I making sense? It is confusing because it's not BW. There are too many exceptions with the FeLV. If you find out anymore, please share :) Thanks for your input/research! - Original Message - From: Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 6:23 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] doubts on two FeLV positive kitties I always thought they could spread it if positive on ELISA but the book didn't say that so I wonder. The book made it sound like they would only be shedding the virus and contagious if the IFA was positive. It said that the ELISA test for the virus antigen that's in the blood, serum, saliva and tears. I looked up antigen before to see exactly what that was, you know like whether it was the virus itself or like an antibody, but I don't remember what it said. I know it's not like an antibody. I'm not in the medical field so I have to look up a lot of stuff. So is the virus antigen the same as the virus itself? I need to go look that up again to try to understand again exactly what an antigen is. If the virus antigen is in the blood and saliva and the antigen is the same as the virus then why couldn't they spread the virus if the ELISA test is positive but the IFA test negative. I've just confused myself all over again ;-) Interesting enough, somewhere else it did say that if there was a latent infection, meaning the virus is only in the bone marrow and T-cell lymphocytes (whatever that is), a mama cat could infect her kitten in utero or while nursing. I'm not sure if that means that the virus reactivates during pregnancy or if the kittens can get a dormant virus. It's all so confusing. But, I would like to know if the virus can be shed when the ELISA is positive but the IFA is negative so if anybody has any thoughts let me know. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward
Re: [Felvtalk] doubts on two FeLV positive kitties
It may be that Sugar was resistant to the virus so it never actually took hold in his system. He had adequate exposure but with a good immune system he may not have even gotten it. The vet that I talked to that has done more research on FeLV than most other vets said that the belief now is that most adult cats with healthy immune systems are resistant to the virus. That means it doesn't even affect them. And the ones that it does get into their system are able to clear it. Guess you'll never know for sure if Sugar was resistant to the virus or if he did get it but was able to extinguish the virus. Either way, glad he's fine now. I'm hoping for a cure too. Sucks that cats can get these kind of diseases and die young. I can't kiss all my fur babies because I'll be hacking up a hairball because there are so many of them!!! The consequences of doing rescue work. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 07:24:50 -0500 From: longhornf...@verizon.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] doubts on two FeLV positive kitties Great analogy, Maureen and it makes sense :) I guess my cat, Sugar, must have cleared the virus since he was exposed to it 24/7 for 6 mos. They bit one another playing, ate/drank out of the same bowls, and shared the litter box. I know you have heard my story before, I'm just sharing with the newbie's. It would be an extreme breakthrough if scientist could determine when the virus is actually shed. I hope they accomplish this soon and my hope's are that they are working on a cure as well. Kiss those sweet furry babies today :) L - Original Message - From: Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 4:46 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] doubts on two FeLV positive kitties An antigen is any substance that causes your body to produce antibodies. Foreign substances such as chemicals, bacteria, viruses, and pollen are antigens. So since a virus is an antigen it kind of sounds stupid to say the ELISA test for the FeLV virus antigen. It sounds like it's saying the same thing twice - it's testing for the virus virus. I guess it just sounds more medical to say virus antigen instead of just virus. Anyway, logically if the ELISA detects the virus in the saliva, blood, etc. it seems like it would be contagious at that point. But if the experts are saying that isn't so then I can't argue. Maybe it does have something to do with the virus getting into the white blood cells and bone marrow before it can be spread, like you were saying. Haven't read that but it is kind of curious. This disease never makes sense and for every rule there's an exception. Oh, one thing in my book said that one reason not all cats exposed to it don't get it is because they are not exposed to it often enough. Like eating after another cat one time is not enough for the virus to spread. It takes a long time, usually a couple months or so at least, with continuous exposure for a cat to pick up the virus from another cat. The book said about 30 % of cats exposed to the virus don't get it because either they're resistant or don't have enough exposure to it. Another 30 % get it but are able to extinguish it before it gets into their white blood cells or bone marrow. 5 - 10 % put the disease into latentcy and then the remaining 30% are the ones that get the virus and are not able to fight it off and will test positive on the IFA and usually die from the disease. Still don't know the answer to the question of whether the virus can be shed at the stage where the ELISA is positive but the IFA is negative. If anyone finds out let us know. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 19:30:04 -0500 From: longhornf...@verizon.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] doubts on two FeLV positive kitties Great observations and lots of mystery with this horrible disease. It would be great if you can find out from that book about what an antigen is and how it works with the virus. I'm no expert but have researched so much. It would be such a relief to all of us if we knew if the virus could be shed if the ELISA test is a true positive (meaning it is in their saliva, blood, etc) or does it have to reach the bone marrow
Re: [Felvtalk] doubts on two FeLV positive kitties
Lynda and I were talking about the other kind of shedding, meaning they are contagious. The virus is being shed in their saliva and bloodstream so they can spread it to other cats. Not shedding as in get rid of it. At least I think that's what we were talking about ;-) I didn't think about shedding as in getting rid of the virus. Now that you say it though it does make more sense to say shed as in get rid of it. Oops, didn't mean to be so confusing. We were just talking about when one cat can start infecting another cat. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 09:19:15 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] doubts on two FeLV positive kitties Are we talking about two kinds of shedding of the virus? When I say shedding the virus, I mean that as the immune system develops, the body gets rid of the virus. Could it also mean that as the virus infects while shedding? -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lynda Wilson Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 8:25 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] doubts on two FeLV positive kitties Great analogy, Maureen and it makes sense :) I guess my cat, Sugar, must have cleared the virus since he was exposed to it 24/7 for 6 mos. They bit one another playing, ate/drank out of the same bowls, and shared the litter box. I know you have heard my story before, I'm just sharing with the newbie's. It would be an extreme breakthrough if scientist could determine when the virus is actually shed. I hope they accomplish this soon and my hope's are that they are working on a cure as well. Kiss those sweet furry babies today :) L - Original Message - From: Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 4:46 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] doubts on two FeLV positive kitties An antigen is any substance that causes your body to produce antibodies. Foreign substances such as chemicals, bacteria, viruses, and pollen are antigens. So since a virus is an antigen it kind of sounds stupid to say the ELISA test for the FeLV virus antigen. It sounds like it's saying the same thing twice - it's testing for the virus virus. I guess it just sounds more medical to say virus antigen instead of just virus. Anyway, logically if the ELISA detects the virus in the saliva, blood, etc. it seems like it would be contagious at that point. But if the experts are saying that isn't so then I can't argue. Maybe it does have something to do with the virus getting into the white blood cells and bone marrow before it can be spread, like you were saying. Haven't read that but it is kind of curious. This disease never makes sense and for every rule there's an exception. Oh, one thing in my book said that one reason not all cats exposed to it don't get it is because they are not exposed to it often enough. Like eating after another cat one time is not enough for the virus to spread. It takes a long time, usually a couple months or so at least, with continuous exposure for a cat to pick up the virus from another cat. The book said about 30 % of cats exposed to the virus don't get it because either they're resistant or don't have enough exposure to it. Another 30 % get it but are able to extinguish it before it gets into their white blood cells or bone marrow. 5 - 10 % put the disease into latentcy and then the remaining 30% are the ones that get the virus and are not able to fight it off and will test positive on the IFA and usually die from the disease. Still don't know the answer to the question of whether the virus can be shed at the stage where the ELISA is positive but the IFA is negative. If anyone finds out let us know. I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn't..the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further. - Mark Twain Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 19:30:04 -0500 From: longhornf...@verizon.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] doubts on two FeLV positive kitties Great observations and lots of mystery with this horrible disease. It would be great if you can find out from that book about what an antigen is and how it works with the virus. I'm no expert but have researched so much. It would be such a relief to all of us if we
Re: [Felvtalk] doubts on two FeLV positive kitties
Now I remember - we were calling it shedding as in making the cat contagious because that's what the book that I quoted called it. It called it shedding the virus into their saliva, etc. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain From: molvey...@hotmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 09:31:39 -0400 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] doubts on two FeLV positive kitties Lynda and I were talking about the other kind of shedding, meaning they are contagious. The virus is being shed in their saliva and bloodstream so they can spread it to other cats. Not shedding as in get rid of it. At least I think that's what we were talking about ;-) I didn't think about shedding as in getting rid of the virus. Now that you say it though it does make more sense to say shed as in get rid of it. Oops, didn't mean to be so confusing. We were just talking about when one cat can start infecting another cat. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 09:19:15 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] doubts on two FeLV positive kitties Are we talking about two kinds of shedding of the virus? When I say shedding the virus, I mean that as the immune system develops, the body gets rid of the virus. Could it also mean that as the virus infects while shedding? ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Off Topic - Does owning a cat make you sexier?
Ha, ha - If owning a cat makes you sexier I'm friggin Angelina Jolie because I own so many!!! “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 09:46:31 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Off Topic - Does owning a cat make you sexier? http://www.catster.com/cats-101/does-owning-a-cat-make-you-sexier No, we're NOT a bunch of little old ladies in tennis shoes... ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] doubts on two FeLV positive kitties
That's what we're wondering - whether the virus is shed into their saliva while their immune system is still fighting the virus. If the ELISA is positive but the IFA is still negative are the cats able to infect another cat. My book said that when the IFA is positive the cats are able to infect other cats. It didn't say that about when the ELISA is positive but the IFA is negative. It didn't say anything at all about that situation so we're wondering at what point in the progression of the disease is the cat able to infect another cat. Since the ELISA test can use saliva or blood to detect the virus then that means the virus is in the saliva at that point right, and I would think it would be able to infect another cat. But that may not be correct. Maybe the virus can't be spread until it's progressed all the way through the body and has gone into the white blood cells. Maybe once the virus goes into the bone marrow and white blood cells it changes or mutates into a way that makes it contagious. I don't know, it's weird. I guess if the experts don't know then I'll never figure it out either. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 10:10:37 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] doubts on two FeLV positive kitties So, does that mean that as positive kittens'/cats' virus is being fought by their immune systems, they are contagious? I have heard vets use the term shedding in this context since the 90s, NOT meaning that they are infectious during that time. What a little word can mean. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 9:50 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] doubts on two FeLV positive kitties Shedding a virus means they are contagious. Beth Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org From: Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2011 9:19 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] doubts on two FeLV positive kitties Are we talking about two kinds of shedding of the virus? When I say shedding the virus, I mean that as the immune system develops, the body gets rid of the virus. Could it also mean that as the virus infects while shedding? ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Viral Shedding
OMG - way to complicated for me!!! “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 10:09:17 -0700 From: create_me_...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Viral Shedding This link explains what sheeding a virus means. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viral_shedding Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org From: Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2011 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] doubts on two FeLV positive kitties I think that their immune systems are getting rid of the virus by eating it up, absorbing it, NOT expelling it to infect others. I bet they don't knowI will ask my vet next time I see him -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Maureen Olvey Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 10:32 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] doubts on two FeLV positive kitties That's what we're wondering - whether the virus is shed into their saliva while their immune system is still fighting the virus. If the ELISA is positive but the IFA is still negative are the cats able to infect another cat. My book said that when the IFA is positive the cats are able to infect other cats. It didn't say that about when the ELISA is positive but the IFA is negative. It didn't say anything at all about that situation so we're wondering at what point in the progression of the disease is the cat able to infect another cat. Since the ELISA test can use saliva or blood to detect the virus then that means the virus is in the saliva at that point right, and I would think it would be able to infect another cat. But that may not be correct. Maybe the virus can't be spread until it's progressed all the way through the body and has gone into the white blood cells. Maybe once the virus goes into the bone marrow and white blood cells it changes or mutates into a way that makes it contagious. I don't know, it's weird. I guess if the experts don't know then I'll never figure it out either. I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn't..the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further. - Mark Twain Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 10:10:37 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] doubts on two FeLV positive kitties So, does that mean that as positive kittens'/cats' virus is being fought by their immune systems, they are contagious? I have heard vets use the term shedding in this context since the 90s, NOT meaning that they are infectious during that time. What a little word can mean. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 9:50 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] doubts on two FeLV positive kitties Shedding a virus means they are contagious. Beth Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org From: Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2011 9:19 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] doubts on two FeLV positive kitties Are we talking about two kinds of shedding of the virus? When I say shedding the virus, I mean that as the immune system develops, the body gets rid of the virus. Could it also mean that as the virus infects while shedding? ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Off Topic - Does owning a cat make you sexier?
Giving a cat a bath, a man - that definitely takes him to a whole new level of sexiness!!! “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 10:32:22 -0700 From: hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Off Topic - Does owning a cat make you sexier? well, I don't know whether it makes me sexier but I do have a really cute boyfriend who has four cats. When I met him he told me he was a cat person and not too crazy about dogs. That certainly got my attention since most men have felt threatened by my 4-legged family members. I would say it definitely makes him sexier, especially since he's the only person I know who can give a cat a bath. From: Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2011 9:46 AM Subject: [Felvtalk] Off Topic - Does owning a cat make you sexier? http://www.catster.com/cats-101/does-owning-a-cat-make-you-sexier No, we're NOT a bunch of little old ladies in tennis shoes... ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Viral Shedding
Beth - You're explanation makes great sense. Thanks for looking into this. I'll check out the link later on. I think you're right though and it's best to treat any cat that test positive on either test as a positive cat until you get a definite no. Whether they're supposed to be shedding at that point or not it's still better to be safe than sorry. Thanks again for the research and explanation. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 11:17:50 -0700 From: create_me_...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Viral Shedding I've been looking on line for answers. So take these things with a grain of salt, esp. since I'm not a vet. But then I'm not sure most vets see enough FeLV to really be that knowledgeable about it. What I've been able to understand from what I was able to find: ELISA tests for for FeLV free (unattached to other cells) in the bloodstream. This shows initial infection. The IFA tests for the virus attached to white blood cells (white cells are made in the bone marrow, which is where they pick up the virus) This shows secondary infection, is when the cat starts sheddiing the virus is contagious to other cats. I would treat ANY cat testing positive on Either test as contagious. The article below explains the life stages of the virus.According to this an IFA should ONLY be used after a positive Elisa. An IFA run without an Elisa may miss the initial stage of infection because it is only looking for FeLV in the white blood cells. http://www.lbah.com/feline/felv.html I really wish I was still in school had the time to research write about this subject! Beth Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org From: Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2011 1:15 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Viral Shedding OMG - way to complicated for me!!! “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 10:09:17 -0700 From: create_me_...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Viral Shedding This link explains what sheeding a virus means. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viral_shedding Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org From: Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2011 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] doubts on two FeLV positive kitties I think that their immune systems are getting rid of the virus by eating it up, absorbing it, NOT expelling it to infect others. I bet they don't knowI will ask my vet next time I see him -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Maureen Olvey Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 10:32 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] doubts on two FeLV positive kitties That's what we're wondering - whether the virus is shed into their saliva while their immune system is still fighting the virus. If the ELISA is positive but the IFA is still negative are the cats able to infect another cat. My book said that when the IFA is positive the cats are able to infect other cats. It didn't say that about when the ELISA is positive but the IFA is negative. It didn't say anything at all about that situation so we're wondering at what point in the progression of the disease is the cat able to infect another cat. Since the ELISA test can use saliva or blood to detect the virus then that means the virus is in the saliva at that point right, and I would think it would be able to infect another cat. But that may not be correct. Maybe the virus can't be spread until it's progressed all the way through the body and has gone into the white blood cells. Maybe once the virus goes into the bone marrow and white blood cells it changes or mutates into a way that makes it contagious. I don't know, it's weird. I guess if the experts don't know then I'll never figure it out either. I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn't..the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient
Re: [Felvtalk] No Good Rotten People!
I guess we've all seen a little of everything. The problem with us in rescue is that by definition rescue means you are rescuing homeless or abused animals. So rescue people will always see the worst and it makes us hard and cynical. The pure selfishness of people probably gets to me worse than anything else. Although there are definitely some sick SOBs out there too. Kelley, I would guess that the rescue you've worked with is an exception, not the rule. At least I hope so. None of the rescues in my area seem that way. Definitely not the rescue I work with. Although we may not agree with the way other rescues do some things we're not going to sabotage them because they're helping animals that we can't help. I'm in GA and there's a serious overpopulation problem here. Dang cats don't take a break in winter and reproduce all year long. Among my rescue group we may individually talk about the way we don't like a rescue handling things (we can all be a little catty) but we never tell other people outside our main core group that because it makes us look bad to bad-mouth another group in public. Within our group we'll get pissed off at each other sometimes but that's a personality thing usually. Guess I'm lucky to have a group like mine. We've done some things with the other groups too and I'll send people there if they want a particular kind of animal that we don't have at the time - like if they want a declawed cat and we don't have one I'll send them to another group. Like I said, I'm lucky. It sounds like you've worked with some crazies though. I guess as far as people go I've seen a lot of bad but I've also seen a lot of good. Sometimes I'm amazed the people that come by our adoptions to tell us about their wonderful cat/dog and how they've spoiled them rotten and I've been so fortunate to have found great homes for my animals. It's amazing to me to see so many animal lovers. I thought I was the only sick one out there :-) My husband definitely thinks I'm the only one there is that loves animals the way I do. But, there's a lot of selfish people too and it's shocking to me the people that see animals as an object. It's like they don't realize that it's a living being with feelings and needs. It's like they don't even realize that by getting rid of their animal they are ripping it from it's home and turning their world upside down. My co-worker said his mother needed to get rid of her cats and his attitude was so casual like oh we'll just send them on I wanted to slap him and say it's their home too. I told him that if she was ready to give them up so easily she's probably one of those people who didn't need animals. And it gets worse than that. We've gotten animals that have been thrown out the car window while it was still moving and all kinds of crazy stuff. Now that's just cruel. Finding kittens puppies in dumpsters in common around here. Those are the kinds of people that many of us hate, or at least have no use for. There are a lot of those sick people and there's no denying it. But I guess even the ones with the casual attitude that just get tired of their pets are probably the worse because they're not sick in the head, they're just plain selfish and heartless. They know better and still toss the animal out just cause they want to and what they want matters more to them. Like Natalie said, it's a throw away society. And the reason is because of plain selfishness and lack of empathy. This economy has made things a lot worse in our area. There are people with legitimate reasons for needing to re-home their animals, like getting foreclosed on. I always say that if I lose my house I'd live in my car in the woods with my animals before I'd turn them out, but if you've got kids you can't do that and sometimes you have to choose. And there are many other legitimate reasons and people bring us their animals with tears. But by and large, it's some sorry ass excuse that we can see right through. I think because a lot of us in rescue see more homeless animals than we can possibly adopt out it's hard to remember all the good people we've met through rescue. It seems the negative outweighs the good just in sheer numbers so I have to remind myself that although there really are some no good rotten people there are some truly wonderful people too with good hearts. Even so, I have to admit that I say I hate people on a regular basis too. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain ___ Felvtalk mailing list
Re: [Felvtalk] No Good Rotten People!
I like that too. However my husband just called to tell me one of our cats just brought in a bird (we have a cat fence in our backyard) and that the bird is trapped in my computer stand. Makes me wonder why I love those little bloodthirsty killers. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 16:01:19 -0700 From: joslinir...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] No Good Rotten People! i like that Edna, I'm so posting that to my FB! From: Edna Taylor taylore...@msn.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, August 5, 2011 4:18 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] No Good Rotten People! I don't see that it is not kind and supportive list but the truth is the truth, people give up their pets at an alarming rate and for, sometimes, what amounts to really stupid reasons. They also leave them in abandoned, foreclosed homes to starve to death. Does this mean that we are not supportive and don't care? No, it means many of us are in rescue and our homes are usually filled to the brim with cats/dogs and sometimes we need to vent. Doesn't mean that we no longer want to support and help others, it means that our hearts are broken and as someone posted on their FB profile and I copied: My pets/fosters are not disposable. They may have imperfections, may eventually have health problems, and be a lot of work. But when I got them, I promised them a forever home. No matter what their faults are, they are good at something, and deserve to be loved and have a forever home. They are not only my pets/fosters, They are a part of my family. From: moonv...@gmail.com Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 14:57:03 -0500 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] No Good Rotten People! Wow, this used to be a really kind, supportive, positive list. It makes me sad to see that it doesn't seem to be any more. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] No Good Rotten People!
The worse part is that if you're the one in the rescue that is taking the animal in from those kinds of people you can't tell them off because you need to get the animal in hand first so they don't hurt it or just dump it by the road. Man is it hard to bite your tongue sometimes. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 15:56:22 -0700 From: joslinir...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] No Good Rotten People! I think that people should have to be kept on record when they take animals to the pound and what not, i wonder, quite honestly, how many people out there get kittens and puppies and then drop them off once they get bigger or realize that there just to hyper, or even worse, they just grew up. It makes you want to ask the question, thou i know kids are no comparison, but makes you want to ask if they would give their kids up for adoption because they don't listen or potty train easy, chewed on your faviorte shoe, or was just to hyper.. sorry this is a ruff subject for me. From: Edna Taylor taylore...@msn.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, August 5, 2011 2:52 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] No Good Rotten People! YEP, first it's the cat she gives up, what is next? Also, I wonder, is it hard to walk and drive a car without a spine? Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 12:57:16 -0500 From: longhornf...@verizon.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] No Good Rotten People! That's a shame. I know when my husband attended UT, we wanted a cat or a kitten for a companion for me. It was so hard to find any!! They went like hotcakes, I guess b/c it's a college town. We eventually found one who happened to be orange white :) This woman could have found it a home, but it must have cramped her style. I agree with you, she should be spayed and be banned forever from having any other pets as well. It's obvious her fiancé has no heart, she should have tossed him out instead!! If he has no feelings for helpless animals, then how will he treat her? Geez! - Original Message - From: Edna Taylor taylore...@msn.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 11:54 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] No Good Rotten People! I DO tend to be judgmental when I get the I met a man and need to dump my cat because he has a dog/kids/hates cats . . . email. As a matter of fact, got one the other day. Woman in Austin threw her 14 year old declawed cat outside in this heat because her fiance is allergic AND then to add insult to injury, she posted the cat for FREE on Craigslist. Yep, those are the types of people that I have no use for and personally, I feel they should be spayed/neutered. Are all people like that? Absolutely not. Are too many people like that? you bet your boots. Sad, but true :( From: moonv...@gmail.com Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 11:48:17 -0500 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] No Good Rotten People! In all honesty, I have found MANY people in rescue to be horribly cruel and judgmental - towards OTHER PEOPLE, particularly other people in rescue. Rescue is a cutthroat business and not for the faint of heart. There's always someone ready to kick you when you're down, say you are not doing something right because you aren't doing what they would do, etc etc etc. I've seen rescue groups purposely try to run other rescue groups out of rescue. (This is not directed towards anyone here, just what I think whenever I see an I hate people thread.) In contrast, MOST of my adopters have been lovely people. We did have a couple who moved to NYC and had a baby who was allergic to the cats (and you can ask all the questions on a form you want, when it comes down to it you don't know what people will do) and they bothered to contact us instead of sending the cats off to the pound. We made arrangements for them to be picked up (they paid half) and delivered back to us safely. On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 9:14 AM, Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com wrote: On 08-04, Natalie wrote: I hate people (except us)do you know how cowardly and cruel people are? They bring their cats/dogs to surrender at a shelter and claim that they are strays...a 14-yr old cat was just brought to a NY shelter, healthy but with a slight sniffle - how can anyone do that? What kind of horrible race are we? Baby comes, cat or dog get tossed out; a dog comes, the cat is abandoned...it's a throw-away-society!
Re: [Felvtalk] No Good Rotten People!
You should tell her to tell her friend that she needs to come out of the dark ages and stop believing that old wives tale about cats smothering babies. I can just see a cat put one paw over a baby's nose and then a paw over it's mouth with the intention of smothering it. And about the whole licking the babies mouth to get the milk, that's crap but even it was true the baby can still breath out of it's nose. I just can't see how it's possible for a cat to smother a baby. And cat's can't suck so they can't suck the breath from the baby. And even if they could suck the baby's lungs are stronger and bigger than a cat's so it wouldn't be able to suck enough breath out of it to smother it. Tell your friend she shouldn't hang around such stupid people. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 15:40:57 -0700 From: joslinir...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] No Good Rotten People! I don't get that either, I have a friend of a friend who is looking to get rid of her 12 yr old cats becuase they are having a baby and she just can't take that chance of the cats smothering the child, while I'm sure it has happened to people, come on, my cat was more scared of my daughter as a baby than anything, and never touched her bottle, there are things you can do, but I guess her mum is just persistant in her getting these cats out of her house. It just sickens me, where are these cats supposed to find homes when there are hundreds of babies waiting to be adpoted, and as we all know, people love baby animals but once there older, they get the boot, i cannot stand people like that. My animals are my children you know? From: Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, August 5, 2011 10:14 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] No Good Rotten People! On 08-04, Natalie wrote: I hate people (except us)do you know how cowardly and cruel people are? They bring their cats/dogs to surrender at a shelter and claim that they are strays...a 14-yr old cat was just brought to a NY shelter, healthy but with a slight sniffle - how can anyone do that? What kind of horrible race are we? Baby comes, cat or dog get tossed out; a dog comes, the cat is abandoned...it's a throw-away-society! __- Natalie, How well I understand what you are saying. Because of my rescue work I've begun to hate most people too. I've rescued cats all my life, and I've seen this over and over again. People think nothing of abandoning their old, pregnant or unwanted cats. I am ashamed to say I'm a member of the human race! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Defying the Odds
I think it's just that Cotton will not die until he's good and ready!!! He's a mess. Can't remember if I said this before or not, I think I did, but he only has one eye, two teeth, and feline asthma (and of course FIV). This old lady that had him loved him but had a housefull and never took any of them to the vet. So, he's definitely a survivor. When he first came to live with me he was the man and put all my cats on the run. Never fought, just gave them the one evil eye and they'd hiss and run. My husband used to laugh and say that all they had to do was come at him from the left where is bad eye is and take him out and he wouldn't see it coming. He's mellowed out a lot since then but not too many will take him on even today. A few still see him and run when he comes near. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 17:04:43 -0500 From: dlg...@windstream.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Defying the Odds Maybe his immune system had improved since he first got FIV so he was abl to ward off the felv. Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: That's one for the booksamazing! -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of molvey...@hotmail.com Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2011 8:33 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Defying the Odds Check this out - I have an FIV positive cat living with me. He's an older gentleman that I took in a couple of years ago. In March a two year old cat of mine died and that's when we discovered she had FeLV. She tested negative as a kitten. She and my FIV positive kitty lived together sharing food and water bowls and everything. I think he used to groom her too when she was a kitten. I had him, the FIV kitty, combo tested yesterday. Can you believe that booger is negative for FeLV? Talk about defying the odds. Doesn't make sense that an immune compromised kitty did not contract the disease. You can't predict anything regarding this disease. I just assumed he had gotten it from her. Just wanted to share my good but very confusing news. sent from my ATT Smartphone by HTC ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Defying the Odds
LOL - I swear cats can be so funny. They know how to drive each other crazy.
“I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are
profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon
unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me
sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 17:21:20 -0500
From: dlg...@windstream.net
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Defying the Odds
CC: molvey...@hotmail.com
My Casey sonds like him in the personalilty at least. She walks up to the
others and stares at them. They hiss and run and I swear she gets a cheshire
cat grin on her face. She also stalks them, but seems to get her kicks just
staring them down.
Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com wrote:
I think it's just that Cotton will not die until he's good and ready!!!
He's a mess. Can't remember if I said this before or not, I think I did,
but he only has one eye, two teeth, and feline asthma (and of course FIV).
This old lady that had him loved him but had a housefull and never took any
of them to the vet. So, he's definitely a survivor. When he first came to
live with me he was the man and put all my cats on the run. Never fought,
just gave them the one evil eye and they'd hiss and run. My husband used to
laugh and say that all they had to do was come at him from the left where
is bad eye is and take him out and he wouldn't see it coming. He's mellowed
out a lot since then but not too many will take him on even today. A few
still see him and run when he comes near.
“I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are
profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon
unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me
sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark
Twain
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 17:04:43 -0500
From: dlg...@windstream.net
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Defying the Odds
Maybe his immune system had improved since he first got FIV so he was abl
to ward off the felv.
Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote:
That's one for the booksamazing!
-Original Message-
From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of
molvey...@hotmail.com
Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2011 8:33 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: [Felvtalk] Defying the Odds
Check this out - I have an FIV positive cat living with me. He's an
older
gentleman that I took in a couple of years ago. In March a two year old
cat
of mine died and that's when we discovered she had FeLV. She tested
negative as a kitten. She and my FIV positive kitty lived together
sharing
food and water bowls and everything. I think he used to groom her too
when
she was a kitten. I had him, the FIV kitty, combo tested yesterday. Can
you believe that booger is negative for FeLV? Talk about defying the
odds.
Doesn't make sense that an immune compromised kitty did not contract the
disease. You can't predict anything regarding this disease. I just
assumed
he had gotten it from her.
Just wanted to share my good but very confusing news.
sent from my ATT Smartphone by HTC
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Re: [Felvtalk] My 1 year old just diagnosed
Not too long ago I posted that I had a FeLV positive cat mixed with an FIV positive cat. Obviously, I didn't know the FeLV cat was positive since she tested negative as a kitten. Anyway, the two lived together for two years until she died and I just tested my old FIV kitty and he's negative. I've got a houseful of my cats and fosters and I've only tested like 7 of them so far but they've all been negative. None are vaccinated against FeLV either. It's weird. I totally expected my FIV kitty to contract it. I'm glad he didn't of course. One vet I talked to said that it's possible the FeLV kitty put the virus into dormancy as a kitten which is why she tested negative and then it reactivated later as an adult. Maybe that's what happened with Fletch. I wouldn't have thought a kitten would have a strong enough immune system to put the virus into dormancy but who knows. But still once it reactivated in my cat I would have thought she could have spread the virus to my other cats. This vet also said that most vets now days believe that healthy adult cats are pretty much immune to the virus. Still best to vaccinate your other cats annually but I'm just saying it's not surprising your others are negative. I also have a friend who mixes her negatives and positives together. She just keeps her negatives vaccinated annually. She even has FIV cats mixed in and keeps them vaccinated too and they have never caught the FeLV virus. Definitely get an IFA test to confirm the ELISA test. The ELISA test is wrong in about 30% of the cases from what someone else told me. It's a very sensitive test so if it's not done perfectly it can show a false positive. Course since Fletch is sick it could be correct but you should still confirm with the IFA test. If the IFA test is negative then it means the virus hasn't gotten into his white blood cells and t-cell lymphocytes (I have no idea what that is, I just read it) so he still has a chance of exterminating the virus completely or putting it into dormancy. So if his IFA test is negative then do a retest in a couple months to see if it has gotten that far or not. You need two test with the same results to confirm FeLV status. If after doing the IFA, Fletch shows positive definitely look into immune system stimulants like interferon and immunoreglin. I don't know much about them but others on the list do and your vet should know. Need to keep Fletch around for a long long time. Since he's sick right now I'd go ahead and get him going on this kind of stuff. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain From: hideyo.yamam...@msn.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 15:55:56 -0600 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] My 1 year old just diagnosed Sorry - correction - I meant to say - Felk virus SEEMS to be very fragile - Sorry! From: hideyo.yamam...@msn.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 15:49:36 -0600 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] My 1 year old just diagnosed I always believe that, things happen for a reason - we may not know why right away.. but it does - and I truly believe that something good will come out of the situation - Contrary to some literature, felk virus does not seem to be very fragile in the air - as mentioned, my friends mix their kitties - and they have several kitties - and none of their negatives has become positve -they groom each other, they wrestle each other, they share food/water bowls.. h From: marciabmar...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 17:04:42 -0500 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] My 1 year old just diagnosed Thank you Hideyo! I felt so guilty and a lot of other things, all of you have helped so much. You have given me hope. Take care Marcia Sent from my iPad On Aug 22, 2011, at 4:15 PM, HIDEYO YAMAMOTO hideyo.yamam...@msn.com wrote: Hi, I did not read the original message - but I just wanted to share. I have one Felk girl, her name is gigner and she is now 7 years old -and I also have a couple of friends who have several felk kitties - they are all over 10 years old and they are all very healthty - Separately, I also have a couple of friends who mix their felk positive kitties wiht non negatives for a several years - they share eveyrthing - but none of their negatives have beome positives - Sending good thoughts to all of your babies. h From: marciabmar...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 15:31:39 -0500 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] My 1 year old just diagnosed Thanks for all the hope that you have given me. Fletch had the ELISA test. Today I took
Re: [Felvtalk] My 1 year old just diagnosed
The vet that I mentioned in my other e-mail that I was talking to about FeLV said that for your negatives you do need a series of two shots, three weeks apart. She said one FeLV vaccination by itself is not enough. I specifically asked her one time if one shot would help at all but she said no that either it was two shots or nothing. After that then it's annually. Maybe there is some flexibility in the weeks between, like maybe you could go 4 weeks instead of 3 but I really don't know. I've just always heard 3 weeks. Definitely not longer than 4 weeks. A young vet can actually be better in some ways because a lot of the older vets hear FeLV and immediately recommend putting the cat down. That sends me over the edge. They don't even talk about confirming with an IFA test. The vet that I mentioned actually wrote one of the first papers about using immunoregulin for treating FeLV years ago. Everyone else at the time just recommended killing the cat once it showed any signs at all of being sick. She's one of the better older vets. She's not old but she's been practicing for a while, which is what I mean. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain From: marciabmar...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 23:42:05 -0500 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] My 1 year old just diagnosed Hi Lynda I think, well I know I am dealing with a very young vet, but he is concerned and that is good. When I asked today when to bring the cats back he Said in a year. The receptionist told me when I got ready to leave to come back in a month. If you say three weeks than I will take them back in three weeks! Thank you very much, I feel like I have a bunch new caring friends(-: Sent from my iPad On Aug 22, 2011, at 10:40 PM, Lynda Wilson longhornf...@verizon.net wrote: Marcia, Just a friendly reminder, in order for the vaccination to be effective, the cat has to have 2 shots, 3 weeks apart (no more than that or you have to start over). Hang in there! There is still hope! What Maureen said is right on the money :0) Lynda - Original Message - From: Marcia Baronda To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 9:04 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] My 1 year old just diagnosed Christiane That is wonderful! I keep hearing a lot of stories filled with hope. I keep telling Fletch he can kickthis and he growls at me(-: He's a stinker!! I had my two vaccinated today and the third one is going to the vet tomorrow. I hope he is negative also. Thanks so much for sharing. Take care Marcia On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 8:21 PM, Christiane Biagi ti...@mindspring.com wrote: My Tucson is 13 was found pos when she was 4. She had tested neg as kitten but was never outside so vets were sure she was pos from birth. She lives with my other cats all of whom were around her for 3-4 years before I found her to be pos. She's still going strong and none of the other cats tested pos. I vaccinated the others. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Marcia Baronda Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 11:04 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] My 1 year old just diagnosed Hi everyone! My one year old sweet litle boy was just diagnosed. I have a million questions and hope to learn a lot from all of you. This is every hard to swallow. I have 3 other adult cats in myj house that have not been vaccinated for felv. I didn't see a reason for it, I didn't trust the vaccine and I am sorry now. Funny thing is, is that I tried so hard to keep my cats healthy. I wouldn't even wear my shoes in the house for fear I would carry something in! Anyway, my little boy Fletch has a fever, horrible looking coat and I can feel his hipbones and some of his backbone. He continues to eat and drink ok. They are on a grain free diet and have a water fountain. Thanks so much for being here. Marcia Sent from my iPad ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Marcia Baronda Baronda Supplies Service, Inc. 1550 S 2700 Rd. Herington, Kansas 67449 Phone: 785-466-2501 Cell:785-230-6499 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing
[Felvtalk] FW: My 1 year old just diagnosed
It's such a strange an unpredictable disease and it seems like the more vets and researchers learn the more they realize that they don't know about it. But, there is definitely light at the end of the tunnel for all cats, even Fletch. What have they figured out about Fletch so far? Is his white blood cell count down or something? What's causing his weight loss? From hearing from others on the list, even though he has FeLV you would treat him for his symptoms as though he didn't have FeLV. What I mean by that is don't give up. If a vet says oh his white blood cell count is down and there's not much that will help because he has FeLV then ask him what he would do if he didn't have FeLV and to treat him accordingly. Don't let a vet assume he is going to die everytime he gets sick. You may need to be more aggressive with his treatment or whatever because of the FeLV but keep fighting. If later on he has a tumor then treat him for the tumor and don't just say let him die. The cat may have a flare up of something or another and then he is fine for the rest of his life. Over the years I've been in rescue and in dealing with feral cats I've taken two or three to the vet that had an injury or something and when the vet tested them for FIV they were positive. Now that's not quite as bad as FeLV but still the vets in every case said that the cat probably wouldn't heal from his injuries because of the FIV and they recommended killing them. But in every case I said no that I at least wanted to give them an opportunity to heal before putting them down and in every single case the cat recovered. The FIV cat that I have that I mentioned was that way. He had a bad URI and the vet said he probably wouldn't get over it. One round of Clavamox later and he was fine. Nothing to it. That was about two and a half years ago. He was like 8 years old at the time. I remember two others that I took in that had wounds and the vets said it was infected and they wouldn't recover because of the FIV. LIke I said, the vet was wrong in both cases and the cats are now fine. FeLV is very dangerous and you can't play with it so always keep a watchful eye over Fletch but it's not an automatic death sentence either. So if funds permit, find out specifically what's causing Fletch's symptoms and treat it. And for people that think less of cat lovers - well, I won't tell you what I normally say to them. Something to the effect of I'd rather be a crazy cat (or animal in general) lover than a cold-hearted wretch who didn't appreciate God's Creations! Better to love too much than too little so what exactly is wrong with caring about an animal so much that you want to do whatever you can to save it's life. If God is Love then love comes from God and to love is to honor God and the creation that He loves. That's the way I say it nicely ;-) Usually after that nice speech I tell them to kiss my animal loving butt! “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain From: marciabmar...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 23:36:51 -0500 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] My 1 year old just diagnosed Maureen I can't thank you enough for this email. I know i'm not out of the woods yet, as far as my adults go, but hoping. That seems like a miracle that your fiv cat didn't contract felv! It seems to me, that after hearing from all of you today that there can definitely be a light at the end of the tunnel. I'm so grateful for all of you. And I love being with people who love cats, because sometimes we are just as misunderstood as our feline buddies are! Thank you Maureen. Please take care Marcia Sent from my Aug 22, 2011, at 5:25 PM, Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com wrote: Not too long ago I posted that I had a FeLV positive cat mixed with an FIV positive cat. Obviously, I didn't know the FeLV cat was positive since she tested negative as a kitten. Anyway, the two lived together for two years until she died and I just tested my old FIV kitty and he's negative. I've got a houseful of my cats and fosters and I've only tested like 7 of them so far but they've all been negative. None are vaccinated against FeLV either. It's weird. I totally expected my FIV kitty to contract it. I'm glad he didn't of course. One vet I talked to said that it's possible the FeLV kitty put the virus into dormancy as a kitten which is why she tested negative and then it reactivated later as an adult. Maybe that's what happened with Fletch. I wouldn't have thought a kitten would have a strong enough immune system to put the virus into dormancy but who knows. But still once it reactivated in my cat I
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: My 1 year old just diagnosed
What's funny is that those people who give us grief usually are the ones that don't own animals. Then later when they get a pet a lot of them became the sappy animal lovers like we are. I love it when that happens. I tell people that don't like cats that it's usually because they don't own a cat. To know one is to love one (in most cases). “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain From: marciabmar...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 01:27:18 -0500 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: My 1 year old just diagnosed AMEN!!! I finally realized I dont owe THEM an explanation. I think every little beings life is important to that being and if I can help save that life, I will. Sent from my iPad On Aug 23, 2011, at 12:41 AM, Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com wrote: It's such a strange an unpredictable disease and it seems like the more vets and researchers learn the more they realize that they don't know about it. But, there is definitely light at the end of the tunnel for all cats, even Fletch. What have they figured out about Fletch so far? Is his white blood cell count down or something? What's causing his weight loss? From hearing from others on the list, even though he has FeLV you would treat him for his symptoms as though he didn't have FeLV. What I mean by that is don't give up. If a vet says oh his white blood cell count is down and there's not much that will help because he has FeLV then ask him what he would do if he didn't have FeLV and to treat him accordingly. Don't let a vet assume he is going to die everytime he gets sick. You may need to be more aggressive with his treatment or whatever because of the FeLV but keep fighting. If later on he has a tumor then treat him for the tumor and don't just say let him die. The cat may have a flare up of something or another and then he is fine for the rest of his life. Over the years I've been in rescue and in dealing with feral cats I've taken two or three to the vet that had an injury or something and when the vet tested them for FIV they were positive. Now that's not quite as bad as FeLV but still the vets in every case said that the cat probably wouldn't heal from his injuries because of the FIV and they recommended killing them. But in every case I said no that I at least wanted to give them an opportunity to heal before putting them down and in every single case the cat recovered. The FIV cat that I have that I mentioned was that way. He had a bad URI and the vet said he probably wouldn't get over it. One round of Clavamox later and he was fine. Nothing to it. That was about two and a half years ago. He was like 8 years old at the time. I remember two others that I took in that had wounds and the vets said it was infected and they wouldn't recover because of the FIV. LIke I said, the vet was wrong in both cases and the cats are now fine. FeLV is very dangerous and you can't play with it so always keep a watchful eye over Fletch but it's not an automatic death sentence either. So if funds permit, find out specifically what's causing Fletch's symptoms and treat it. And for people that think less of cat lovers - well, I won't tell you what I normally say to them. Something to the effect of I'd rather be a crazy cat (or animal in general) lover than a cold-hearted wretch who didn't appreciate God's Creations! Better to love too much than too little so what exactly is wrong with caring about an animal so much that you want to do whatever you can to save it's life. If God is Love then love comes from God and to love is to honor God and the creation that He loves. That's the way I say it nicely ;-) Usually after that nice speech I tell them to kiss my animal loving butt! “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain From: marciabmar...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 23:36:51 -0500 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] My 1 year old just diagnosed Maureen I can't thank you enough for this email. I know i'm not out of the woods yet, as far as my adults go, but hoping. That seems like a miracle that your fiv cat didn't contract felv! It seems to me, that after hearing from all of you today that there can definitely be a light at the end of the tunnel. I'm so grateful for all of you. And I love being with people who love cats, because sometimes we are just as misunderstood as our feline buddies
Re: [Felvtalk] My 1 year old just diagnosed
The only reason I can think of to give them an annual vaccination is to protect them from Fletch if he turns out to definitely be FeLV positive. You would think that if they were going to get FeLV from Fletch they would have gotten it by now but I guess there's a chance they still could get it later on like if their immune system is compromised by illness or some other reason. I don't know. Hard call. Of course if they've developed somewhat of an immunity to FeLV from being exposed to it through Fletch then maybe they'll always be immune and not need an annual shot. It's kind of like better safe than sorry. If Fletch does pass on before they do then there's no reason to keep up their vaccinations. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain From: marciabmar...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 01:21:27 -0500 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] My 1 year old just diagnosed Thanks. I really like this vet, and I believe that the newer younger vets will hardly ever tell you to put an animal down, whereas The older ones that I have dealt with don't hesitate to suggest that. This new one was recently hired by my regular veterinarian, and he is great, knows everything, so I know the new guy must be good or he wouldn't be there. All the people at my vets office are wonderful. Can't tell I really like them, can you?Now, if my cats never ever go outside, do they need this shot every year? The closest they have ever come to outside is looking through a window. Take care Sent from my iPad On Aug 22, 2011, at 11:52 PM, Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com wrote: The vet that I mentioned in my other e-mail that I was talking to about FeLV said that for your negatives you do need a series of two shots, three weeks apart. She said one FeLV vaccination by itself is not enough. I specifically asked her one time if one shot would help at all but she said no that either it was two shots or nothing. After that then it's annually. Maybe there is some flexibility in the weeks between, like maybe you could go 4 weeks instead of 3 but I really don't know. I've just always heard 3 weeks. Definitely not longer than 4 weeks. A young vet can actually be better in some ways because a lot of the older vets hear FeLV and immediately recommend putting the cat down. That sends me over the edge. They don't even talk about confirming with an IFA test. The vet that I mentioned actually wrote one of the first papers about using immunoregulin for treating FeLV years ago. Everyone else at the time just recommended killing the cat once it showed any signs at all of being sick. She's one of the better older vets. She's not old but she's been practicing for a while, which is what I mean. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain From: marciabmar...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 23:42:05 -0500 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] My 1 year old just diagnosed Hi Lynda I think, well I know I am dealing with a very young vet, but he is concerned and that is good. When I asked today when to bring the cats back he Said in a year. The receptionist told me when I got ready to leave to come back in a month. If you say three weeks than I will take them back in three weeks! Thank you very much, I feel like I have a bunch new caring friends(-: Sent from my iPad On Aug 22, 2011, at 10:40 PM, Lynda Wilson longhornf...@verizon.net wrote: Marcia, Just a friendly reminder, in order for the vaccination to be effective, the cat has to have 2 shots, 3 weeks apart (no more than that or you have to start over). Hang in there! There is still hope! What Maureen said is right on the money :0) Lynda - Original Message - From: Marcia Baronda To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 9:04 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] My 1 year old just diagnosed Christiane That is wonderful! I keep hearing a lot of stories filled with hope. I keep telling Fletch he can kickthis and he growls at me(-: He's a stinker!! I had my two vaccinated today and the third one is going to the vet tomorrow. I hope he is negative also. Thanks so much for sharing. Take care Marcia On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 8:21 PM, Christiane Biagi ti...@mindspring.com wrote: My Tucson is 13 was found pos when she was 4. She had tested neg as kitten but was never outside so vets were sure she was pos from birth. She lives with my other cats all
Re: [Felvtalk] Fletch
I don't have as much experience as others but I know cats can get grouchy when they don't feel well. That's probably it. Your vet is probably right about him having FeLV because he appears to be ill. But, that's a probably, not a definite. It wouldn't hurt to re-test. Well other than the cost. That always hurts. I think an IFA test is about $100 on average. Why are they giving him amoxi? Does he definitely have an infection of some sort? Depends on the infection as to the type of antibiotic. I can't tell you what every antibiotic is for but I'm wondering what type of specific infection she thinks he has. I guess giving him prednisone depends on what she says is wrong with him. Why did he go blind? Is that something FeLV can cause? I've never read about it. Has she suggested trying immunoreglin? You need to ask her about it. It's what I hear a lot of people give to their FeLV kitties when they get sick. I think it's a super-power immune system stimulant but you can read more about it online. There's another one called interferon. I think there's different type of interferon and some are given as injections. I've never used immunoreglin or interferon because my FeLV kitty died within 24 hours of me noticing something was wrong with her breathing and it was only at her necropsy and blood test done then that we found out about the FeLV, but I know that's what sick FeLV kitties are supposed to get. Seems like I've heard of other things but the immunoreglin is always in the conversation. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 17:01:50 -0400 From: felineres...@frontier.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Fletch On 08-24, Marcia Baronda wrote: Fletch is exceptionally grouchy today. He swatted at one of the other cats today and continually growls at me(-; I asked my vet about retesting him and she said it's not necessary since he's already cliically ill. I know after reading everything all of you have posted that you don't agree. that is why I am here, for outside help from people that have years of experience with this. I will have him retested of course. Do you think his grouchiness is from not feeling well, or could he have some neurological issues? I know that he has totally lost his sight and I'm sure that is really scary to him, poor little guy.He's om amoxicillin and they said he could stay on that indefinitely. Do you agree? She also said we could try some prednisone. What are you opinions?? I think being blind would be terribly frightening for him until he adjusted to it. Also being in pain and sick would make him irritable. Can he be in a quiet room by himself for awhile? Lorrie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Being blunt
LOL - I can see you (not that I know what you look like) in the courtroom at jury selection and you saying Hang the Bastard. I still can't stop laughing. I would imagine everyone mouth dropped open. Mostly because they agreed but were too scared to say it themselves. I hate the physical changes of age but being more secure emotionally is worth it. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 22:02:56 -0500 From: dlg...@windstream.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Being blunt Anyone who abuses animals and children and seniors deserves a swift kick in the . I have no patience with them and really don't give a d--- if they don't like it. I have never been asked to serve on a jury in a case of animal, child, senior abuse or drug charges. When asked if I have an opinioin on the case, I say they should hang the bastard. They never do pick me. Can't figure out why. I am also 70. Maybe age does have something to do with it. D.S.Louis delain...@yahoo.com wrote: At my age 70, I've earned the right to say what I feel...andI do itjust ask my kids.. A failure is just a stopover on the way to SUCCESS. From: Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 6:26 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Being blunt Congratulations! I don't get these people, if they don't really care for the horses, don't they at least appreciate them for their monetary value? -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of katskat1 Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 7:31 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Being blunt I will be 63 next month and I have been telling people off about animals for several years now. Just did it yesterday to a woman who took her 4H'rs into McDonalds for a relaxed, air-conditioned treat while FIVE horses sat in direct sun in an enclosed trailer. One of the horses was neighing and kicking so hard the trailer was rocking. I went inside and found her, told her one of the horses was distressed and I felt she shouldn't have left them in the direct sun while they trooped inside to eat. She told me she was trying to get the girls out but they weren't finished eating yet. I told her that is why it is called fast food. She could order the food and they can eat in the truck. Suffer - your horses are! She seemed to be a bit miffed at me! Said very un-4H-like words! Sigh. Tee hee. Wonder what I'll be like at 80? kat On 8/23/11, Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com wrote: On 08-23, Marcia Baronda wrote: You know what? I'm getting that way too! It must be getting older. Ya know, I know this sounds really crazy, but I kind of like getting older, there ARE perks. Yes, that's one of the few good things about getting old! I'm 78 now and I tell people exactly what I think of them if they are irresponsible or unkind to animals. Lorrie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Fletch
If after a few weeks the amoxi isn't working ask the vet about switching antibiotics to a stronger one. It'd be nice if they knew where the infection was. He probably does have an infection since he has a fever but the infection came from somewhere, not just a generalized infection. Since they mentioned a virus I wonder if they're thinking it's an upper respiratory infection. Either way, I guess antibiotics are called for. I still say maybe an immune system stimulant since he probably does have FeLV. Not that everytime a cat is sick does it mean FeLV but if he truly does have FeLV then it will be extra hard for his body to fight off the infection. Prednisone can negatively affect the immune system. It can be a really good thing but I've just heard it can suppress the immune system. Guess you have to balance out the benefits of it with the potential negatives. Did they say why they wanted to use prednisone? I think it's normally used for some kind of inflammation. I imagine they have a good reason for suggesting it but you should ask to be sure you understand why they want to use it before making a decision. I would definitely re-test but the question is when. You could do the IFA test right now but if it comes up negative then you would need to do another one later on to see if the infection has gotten into his white blood cells. It takes a little time from the time the virus gets into his bloodstream before it gets into his white blood cells so the ELISA could be positive right now and the IFA negative but then positive later. Or his body may fight off the virus so right now he could have a positive ELISA but a negative IFA. Then when his body fights it off he should have a negative ELISA and a negative IFA. Myself, I'd be curious and want to do the IFA test now to know if it's in his white blood cells already, but knowing you'll have to pay for another one later on (if it's negative) then maybe you should wait. Your decision. Whenever you do decide to do the test just demand your vet do it whether she thinks it's necessary or not. Recently a vet told someone in our rescue that she shouldn't do the IFA because the ELISA test was the gold standard. Thankfully the foster parent realized the vet was a clueless about FeLV and the two different tests so she demanded he do the IFA test anyway. But if you decide to wait on the IFA test then since Fletch is sick I would treat him as though he had FeLV and get him on immunoreglin or something like it until he gets well. The one vet told me that a positive IFA means the virus is in his white blood cells and there's no need for further testing because once it's in his white blood cells the cat will not fight off the virus and won't put it into dormancy either. He will stay positive for FeLV. So if you do the IFA test now and it's positive then you can consider him definitely positive, according to her anyway, and not do another test later. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 20:14:56 -0500 From: marciabmar...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Fletch Fletch was born with microphalmia,,one of his eyes was completely covered by a membrane and the other one he had limited sight. From what I have read some of these cats will go completely blind. And I can tell from the way he is acting that he has gone blind. He Is afraid at every little move. I'm hoping he eventually gets used to it. He knows this house so well, that he knows where everything is. The reason that he is on amoxi is that when I took him to the vet he had a temp of 105. They said he has some sort of infection that we need to get under control. He said that it isnt the virus that is making fletch feel sick but the infection he has. So he told me to keep him on it for three weeks. Yesterday when I saw the other vet (at the same office) she told me he could stay on it if he needed to.. So that's where I'm atopen for suggestions. Oh, today I got my liquid b complex and started him on that. thanks guys oh I turned 59 in July(-: On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 4:01 PM, Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com wrote: On 08-24, Marcia Baronda wrote: Fletch is exceptionally grouchy today. He swatted at one of the other cats today and continually growls at me(-; I asked my vet about retesting him and she said it's not necessary since he's already cliically ill. I know after reading everything all of you have posted that you don't agree. that is why I am here, for outside help from people that have years of experience with this. I will have him retested of course.
Re: [Felvtalk] Being blunt
Like I mentioned in my last e-mail - from what this vet told me, the IFA test is a confirmation of FeLV if it turns up positive so you wouldn't need a bone marrow aspirate. Now if the IFA is negative now and you do another IFA later on and it's still negative then either the cat has exterminated the virus or has put it into dormancy. When a cat has put the virus into dormancy both the ELISA and the IFA will be negative and only a bone marrow aspirate would tell if the virus is in dormancy. I'm just going on what I'm reading and what that one vet is telling me. Also, I read that many cats that put the virus into dormancy could extinguish the virus altogether years later There is always a chance that the IFA can show a false positive, but 99% of the time it's right. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain From: siggies...@hotmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 11:59:39 -0400 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Being blunt Hi Marcia, I don't think re-testing is ever a bad idea, but in order to truly determine where his FeLV is as far as infection goes, a bone marrow aspirate would have to be done.It's been 6 years since I've had a FeLV+ baby here, and I was inactive on this list for quite some time. I recently reactivated because I missed reading about the kitties. His grouchiness could have everything to do with the fact that he's blind. I think once he adjusts, and once he is completely familiar with his surroundings he may be just fine. If you never read the book Homer's Odyssey, you should. That kitty had to have his eyes removed when he was a kitten, and he adjusted quite well. Wonderful story. I never give up hope that my husband will one day agree to give up meat. Or at least drastically cut down on the amount. He'd eat beef every day if he had a choice. T - Original Message - From: Marcia Baronda To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 11:47 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Being blunt Terri I know this sounds crazy, but 20 years ago, after watching City Slickers where Billy Crystal saved Norman the calf from the rapids, I turned to my husband and said I am never eating beef again. And I never have. Chicken pork and fish followed a few months later. I certainly have learned newer ways to cook! I am a big fan of Temple Grandin...have two of her books. She is an amazing woman. it was from one of her books that I larned that cats can't calm down as fast as dogs because of their frontal lobes. But I still foret that sometimes and end up getting scratched or bit. That's OK. Fletch is exceptionally grouchy today. He swatted at one of the other cats today and continually growls at me(-; I asked my vet about retesting him and she said it's not necessary since he's already cliically ill. I know after reading everything all of you have posted that you don't agree. that is why I am here, for outside help from people that have years of experience with this. I will have him retested of course. Do you think his grouchiness is from not feeling well, or could he have some neurological issues? I know that he has totally lost his sight and I'm sure that is really scary to him, poor little guy.He's om amoxicillin and they said he could stay on that indefinitely. Do you agree? She also said we could try some prednisone. What are you opinions?? Take care everyone Marcia On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 7:14 AM, Terri Brown siggies...@hotmail.com wrote: I agree, Marcia -- livestock should be protected. I understand that they are meant for food for people, but they still deserve respect. This is why I am such a fan of Temple Grandin. She got it right. I find myself more and more unable to eat beef lately..because of the cruelty they get like this. I wish ALL beef cattle were humanely treated. It is a crying shame that in 2011, we are still so barbaric in our treatment of cattle. There are more humane ways to slaughter them. My 2 cents. =^..^= Terri, Siggie the Tomato Vampire, Guinevere, Travis, Dori and 6 furangels: Ruthie, Samantha, Arielle, Gareth, Alec, Salome and Sammi =^..^= - Original Message - From: Marcia Baronda To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 10:47 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Being blunt tsk tsk to her for those un 4H words and GOOD FOR YOU for speaking for the horses! On the local news one day they showed a cattle truck that had overturned on the turnpike in Topeka. They wer bulldozing those cattle off the road. They were crying and a lot of them had been severely injured. I was so Pd that I could not sit down as I called the station and told them what I
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: My 1 year old just diagnosed
I'm not sure. I was thinking the kind you use has to come from the vet and is given as in-office treatments. I think it's stronger than what you bought for the collies but I'm not positive about it. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain From: marciabmar...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 11:12:46 -0500 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: My 1 year old just diagnosed I do have a question. Is the Immunoregulon that sells on Revival Animal Health ok to use? My Mom and I both acquired Collies that had demodectic mange and that was one of the things we used to help treat them. Thanks so much Marcia Sent from my iPad On Aug 23, 2011, at 8:47 AM, Lynda Wilson longhornf...@verizon.net wrote: I can appreciate your last paragraph, Maureen! You tell 'em girl! LOL!! - Original Message - From: Maureen Olvey To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 12:41 AM Subject: [Felvtalk] FW: My 1 year old just diagnosed It's such a strange an unpredictable disease and it seems like the more vets and researchers learn the more they realize that they don't know about it. But, there is definitely light at the end of the tunnel for all cats, even Fletch. What have they figured out about Fletch so far? Is his white blood cell count down or something? What's causing his weight loss? From hearing from others on the list, even though he has FeLV you would treat him for his symptoms as though he didn't have FeLV. What I mean by that is don't give up. If a vet says oh his white blood cell count is down and there's not much that will help because he has FeLV then ask him what he would do if he didn't have FeLV and to treat him accordingly. Don't let a vet assume he is going to die everytime he gets sick. You may need to be more aggressive with his treatment or whatever because of the FeLV but keep fighting. If later on he has a tumor then treat him for the tumor and don't just say let him die. The cat may have a flare up of something or another and then he is fine for the rest of his life. Over the years I've been in rescue and in dealing with feral cats I've taken two or three to the vet that had an injury or something and when the vet tested them for FIV they were positive. Now that's not quite as bad as FeLV but still the vets in every case said that the cat probably wouldn't heal from his injuries because of the FIV and they recommended killing them. But in every case I said no that I at least wanted to give them an opportunity to heal before putting them down and in every single case the cat recovered. The FIV cat that I have that I mentioned was that way. He had a bad URI and the vet said he probably wouldn't get over it. One round of Clavamox later and he was fine. Nothing to it. That was about two and a half years ago. He was like 8 years old at the time. I remember two others that I took in that had wounds and the vets said it was infected and they wouldn't recover because of the FIV. LIke I said, the vet was wrong in both cases and the cats are now fine. FeLV is very dangerous and you can't play with it so always keep a watchful eye over Fletch but it's not an automatic death sentence either. So if funds permit, find out specifically what's causing Fletch's symptoms and treat it. And for people that think less of cat lovers - well, I won't tell you what I normally say to them. Something to the effect of I'd rather be a crazy cat (or animal in general) lover than a cold-hearted wretch who didn't appreciate God's Creations! Better to love too much than too little so what exactly is wrong with caring about an animal so much that you want to do whatever you can to save it's life. If God is Love then love comes from God and to love is to honor God and the creation that He loves. That's the way I say it nicely ;-) Usually after that nice speech I tell them to kiss my animal loving butt! “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain From: marciabmar...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 23:36:51 -0500 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] My 1 year old just diagnosed Maureen I can't thank you enough for this email. I know i'm not out of the woods yet, as far as my adults go, but hoping. That seems like a miracle that your fiv cat didn't contract felv! It seems to me, that after hearing from all of you today that there can definitely
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Pet Armor/Diatomaceous Earth
They are just called beneficial nematodes and you can get them at some nurseries. I got some at Pike this year. You can also order them from online. I ordered some from Amazon. I haven't put those out yet so I can testify to them. I'm a little worried they didn't survive the trip through the mail because they have to be kept cool and when I got the order in the mail the ice bag was hot so they weren't kept cool the whole time they were in the shipping process. I'm going to put them out this weekend but I'm a little leary. But the first batch I got from Pike Nurseries in late spring worked great. Man did it cut down on the fleas and I didn't have those little black ants coming in either. I think I'll be putting them down every year from now on. I'm not sure if they work on ticks. Seems like they would if ticks spend a lot of time on the ground. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain From: ho...@sonic.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2011 14:15:53 -0700 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Pet Armor/Diatomaceous Earth Wow, now I have to ask...Friendly Nematodes? What are they called where do you get them! ~Bonnie -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Natalie Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 11:38 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Pet Armor/Diatomaceous Earth No, we have our property sprayed against ticks, and use friendly nematodes around the house so that we don't have to use flea stuff on the cats. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of dlg...@windstream.net Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 3:28 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Pet Armor/Diatomaceous Earth I KNOW THIS IS AN OLD ONE, BUT I AM SLOW IN RESPONDING SOMETIMES. It is now August an boy do we have seed ticks all over the place. I had been using Revolution on my cats because of heartworm (I live on bluff over a river and lots of ponds in our area, so lots of mosquitos) but I took Homey to vet for sturivite crystals in urine and she had some blood also. Vet gave her a long lasting antibiotic shot and now he is back to her normal self, but they called and said she was loaded with seed ticks. I check them every time they come in and I never noticed any s now everyone got a dose of tick treament. I have since found a lot of them on myself, seed and regular ticks. Anyone else haeing a big problem with them? Cindy McHugh ci...@furangels.org wrote: I noticed a couple people have mentioned using Revolution intended for dogs on their cats. I thought this was extremely dangerous. I remember watching an episode of Emergency Vets or one of those shows on Animal Planet where a cat died because someone used a flea product intended for dogs on it. So *please* be very, very careful when doing this and speak to your vet first about adjusting the dosage. Cindy Angel Jackpot From: molvey...@hotmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 19:18:36 -0400 It's so funny that this conversation has come up because I was just discussing it with my feline asthma group. Beth, I'm in GA also and having major major flea problems. I have a cat fence up so all my cats go in the backyard. That is making things ten times worse. I've been using Revolution for several years now with no problems. Like you, I work in a rescue and have a lot of cats so I buy the dog size and split it up between the cats. I don't know if the Revolution isn't working this year or if it's just an especially bad year for fleas. If you say Advantage isn't working then maybe it's just an especially bad year. Some people in the other group were talking about how sometimes switching products can help because either the fleas have built up a tolerance to the current flea meds or maybe the cat's system is processing the flea stuff differently because they've had it on them for so long. Who knows. If you've been using Advantage maybe you should try Revolution or Frontline Plus. I believe Frontline Plus kills fleas and larvae so it kills and breaks the life cycle so that might be a good one too. I hate using all these chemicals on my cats but there's no way around it for me because I've got so many plus a few ferals that live here that I can't touch. I've never sprayed my yard but since this year is so bad I've got to do something. I'm
Re: [Felvtalk] Having two Feline Leukemia cats
Seems like I heard that kittens should be retested at 6 months. Not sure though. Many kittens have URI and coccidia, which is usually what Albon is for. I've had some people tell me that their cats went months before they actually had a solid poop. That could be from anything. So if the Albon doesn't help don't be too worried, just keep trying things. It could be the food, other parasites just so many things. Have to be careful about diarrhea because it's easy for kittens to get dehydrated. So make sure it's getting enough water and let the vet show you how to tell if they're dehydrated by pulling up the skin to test the elasticity. If the URI doesn't get better after a couple rounds of Clavamox ask for a stronger antibiotic. I don't think vets like to give too strong an antibiotic to a kitten but you do have to get rid of the URI so sometimes there's nothing else to do. Also antibiotics are notorious for giving cats diarrhea. With any FeLV kitty you have to be worried about each thing that they battle so I don't know about the prognosis. I wouldn't think those things would be too much more serious for a FeLV kitten than any other kitten but I don't know for sure. If the clavamox is helping then that's a good sign. So many kittens have lived longer than the expected 3.5 years so you never know how long the kitten will live. It seems to be a coin toss. But, there are so many things out there to help the immune system deal with whatever FeLV throws their way so keep that in mind and be positive. Maybe someone else has more specific advise on supplements or anything else to help the kitten get over it's health problems right now. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 21:28:46 -0700 From: ccarlsb...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Having two Feline Leukemia cats Can someone please give me some advice on the 8 week old kitty I rescued from the shelter? IFA and ELISA + FELV. What do you all think about that prognosis?? He is on Clavamax for URI, which is slightly improving, still very sneezy-snotty, Albon, Metrodione (?) for diarrhea, which has not improved, and also L-Lysine/Duralactin gel. When should I re-test? On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 8:59 PM, dlg...@windstream.net wrote: I think itis time to retest Annie and Nitnoy with the IFA and Elisa. It has been 1 year for Nitnoy and over 3 for Annie. Marcia Baronda marciabmar...@gmail.com wrote: No Kiddingmy thoughts exactly. And I am just learning this, because you can't find any info like this in any books or on any websites about felv. All of you have a wealth of info here and a LOT of statistics!! Just think what that would look like all compiled together. On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 2:23 PM, Christiane Biagi ti...@mindspring.comwrote: You know, not for nothing, but this testing is really really flawed! There are just too many stories of folks with inconsistent results. Life and death decisions are made everyday based on these tests and all of us who have felv+ cats know the tests to be a bit shaky. My own Tucson tested neg at about 3 months post years later even though she’d never been exposed to the outside or any pos cats….. ** ** *From:* felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf Of *Beth *Sent:* Thursday, August 25, 2011 3:15 PM *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Having two Feline Leukemia cats ** ** I would retest the 1st one on the Elisa just to be sure. Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org http://www.furkids.org/* *** ** ** -- *From:* Natalie at...@optonline.net *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Sent:* Thursday, August 25, 2011 3:00 PM *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Having two Feline Leukemia cats Ours had only the ELISA, positive….2 ½ yrs later, the IFA – negative. New cat had ELISA, then IFA three wks later – both were positive. He had the IFA again 1 ½ yrs later – negative! *From:* felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf Of *Beth *Sent:* Thursday, August 25, 2011 11:25 AM *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Having two Feline Leukemia cats Natalie, were they also re-tested with an Elisa? A negative IFA does NOT mean they don't have the virus. It just means it isn't replicating in their bone marrow. Beth Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter!
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Pet Armor/Diatomaceous Earth
From the subject line I think we already talked about diatomaceous
earth. It's good stuff too. I used it in conjunction with the
nematodes and all of it together made a big difference.
Oh, nematodes can't handle the sun so put them in shady areas.
“I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are
profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon
unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me
sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 22:55:36 -0500
From: dlg...@windstream.net
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Pet Armor/Diatomaceous Earth
CC: molvey...@hotmail.com
gOT TO TRY SOJE OF THOSE LITTLE GUYS! With all the critters I have roaming
around my place, I need something. Come to think of it, all the deer,
raccoons, possumn, etc. will prbably apprecite them too, also. At least they
would not be dropping them off to get on my guys.
Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com wrote:
They are just called beneficial nematodes and you can get them at some
nurseries. I got some at Pike this year. You can also order them from
online. I ordered some from Amazon. I haven't put those out yet so I can
testify to them. I'm a little worried they didn't survive the trip through
the mail because they have to be kept cool and when I got the order in the
mail the ice bag was hot so they weren't kept cool the whole time they were
in the shipping process. I'm going to put them out this weekend but I'm a
little leary. But the first batch I got from Pike Nurseries in late spring
worked great. Man did it cut down on the fleas and I didn't have those
little black ants coming in either. I think I'll be putting them down
every year from now on.
I'm not sure if they work on ticks. Seems like they would if ticks spend a
lot of time on the ground.
“I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are
profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon
unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me
sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark
Twain
From: ho...@sonic.net
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2011 14:15:53 -0700
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Pet Armor/Diatomaceous Earth
Wow, now I have to ask...Friendly Nematodes?
What are they called where do you get them!
~Bonnie
-Original Message-
From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Natalie
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 11:38 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Pet Armor/Diatomaceous Earth
No, we have our property sprayed against ticks, and use friendly
nematodes around the house so that we don't have to use flea stuff on the
cats.
-Original Message-
From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of
dlg...@windstream.net
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 3:28 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Pet Armor/Diatomaceous Earth
I KNOW THIS IS AN OLD ONE, BUT I AM SLOW IN RESPONDING SOMETIMES.
It is now August an boy do we have seed ticks all over the place. I had
been using Revolution on my cats because of heartworm (I live on bluff
over a river and lots of ponds in our area, so lots of mosquitos) but I
took Homey to vet for sturivite crystals in urine and she had some blood
also. Vet gave her a long lasting antibiotic shot and now he is back to
her normal self, but they called and said she was loaded with seed ticks.
I check them every time they come in and I never noticed any s now
everyone got a dose of tick treament. I have since found a lot of them
on myself, seed and regular ticks. Anyone else haeing a big problem with
them?
Cindy McHugh ci...@furangels.org wrote:
I noticed a couple people have mentioned using Revolution intended for
dogs on their cats. I thought this was extremely dangerous. I remember
watching an episode of Emergency Vets or one of those shows on Animal
Planet where a cat died because someone used a flea product intended
for dogs on it. So
*please* be very, very careful when doing this and speak to your vet
first about adjusting the dosage.
Cindy Angel Jackpot
From: molvey...@hotmail.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: [Felvtalk] Pet Armor
Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 19:18:36 -0400
It's so funny that this conversation has come up because I was just
discussing it with my feline asthma group.
Beth, I'm in GA also and having major major flea problems. I
Re: [Felvtalk] Fletch
You can give baby aspirin like every other day or 72 hours or something like that for just a few days though. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 10:44:05 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Fletch Same here! From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 9:59 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Fletch It has always been my understanding that you should never give asprin to cats: Aspirin Side EffectsAspirin is not a medication that is typically administered to cats. If administered, it may cause a few side effects such as: Stomach acidity, which can lead to stomach ulcersUpset stomachVomitingDiarrheaBlood coagulation delaysLack of appetite Read more: Can You Give a Cat Aspirin? - VetInfo From: marciabmar...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 21:40:49 -0500 Subject: [Felvtalk] Fletch Update and more questions. Yesterday Fletch ate very well and ate quite a few treats too. He got up and walked around the kitchen for quite awhile. I was so hopeful that maybe he was over the hump. Wrong. This morning he refused to eat or drink and hasn't done so all day. I hav given him some electrolytes 3 times today. He didn't like that a bit. He had very watery poop with hard chunks in it. That happened twice. Once on the couch, which I have plastic on under his blankets, and then another time I ran him to the litterbox. His fever is back..I'm sure the aspirin wore off and he doesn't feel good at all. Is this how this disease is all the time? Is this what his life is gonna be like from now on? Because if it is, I can't see making him go through this. I don't think he enjoys any part of this. Maybe he ate too much yesterday, I don't know. Do they go thru this and then get better. Any insight will be appreciated. Where does the fever come from? Thanks guys, I sure do appreciate each and every one of you. Marcia Sent from my iPad ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Living forever :-)
See Lorrie - now everything has been worked out! So tell your three kids if they don't get off their butts and offer to take your babies in that you're going to have two strange women (well, I'm strange anyway) living in your house taking care of your animals. And we're not going to let them come enjoy the lake either!!! And people wonder why I don't have kids. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain From: longhornf...@verizon.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2011 09:47:15 -0500 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Living forever :-) Lorrie, I like the way Maureen thinks! I can help Maureen take care of all of your cats, I love her idea even though she's kidding. It would be a great place to retire and between the two of us, we can take care of all the furry babies! Afterall, I will be 47 next month :0) L - Original Message - From: molvey...@hotmail.com To: Lorrie ; felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 9:24 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Living forever :-) Lorrie - I'll pack my bags and be right up. Living on a lake taking care of cats sounds awesome. I'm 45 so hopefully will be around until all your cats die! Give me driving directions!!! I'm a CPA so can work to keep your cats in the lifestyle they're accustomed to living. Ok, just kidding. Wish I could take off sometimes. I've got a lot of cats too, but unless something tragic happens hopefully I'll outlive them. It's scary to think about the future though because you just don't know what will happen and when. I've missed a lot of this thread so I might have missed something but if you're 78, then you could still outlive your cats. My Grandmother is 92 and lives in a small apartment on her own. Best to make plans now of course but by the time you're gone who knows what the situation will be. Tell your kids that you're leaving your house and money to them so between the three of them they could make room for all the cats! Fifteen cats split three ways is no big deal. Cats are pretty easy. Tell them they could close in their garage or build an extra room with your money and then enclose an area of their yard for the cats to go in and that's all the cats would need. Tell them if they don't you're writing them out of your will! sent from my ATT Smartphone by HTC - Reply message - From: Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com Date: Thu, Sep 8, 2011 6:54 pm Subject: [Felvtalk] Living forever :-) To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org On 09-08, Gloria Lane wrote: I'm kindly pondering how to do that. Any web sites that address that I wonder? There are many cat sanctuaries listed on the web, but most are full. Then too, many fail and become like hoarding places because they take in too many cats to care for properly. It is truly difficult to find a good sanctuary, but I'll keep trying. If I knew who would take care of my 15 cats I'd give them my house which is a lovely home in a resort area on a lake. It has been built around the needs of my cats, and has three outside enclosures they can access from the inside via cat flaps. It is also in the woods on several acres with no traffic. It is a paradise for my cats, and I just wish someone could let them continue the happy life they know and love. I will not go to my grave and be at peace until I know my babies are taken care of. Lorrie On Sep 8, 2011, at 8:00 AM, MaiMaiPG maima...@gmail.com wrote: I've provided for the care of my critters (dogs and cats and whatever may show up) in my will. Everything is in trust to be used for their care until they all leave this world. WHO WILL HANDLE YOUR TRUST AND BE SURE YOUR CATS ARE CARED FOR? ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Living forever :-)
Lynda - a house on the lake in a resort type atomsphere - I say leave the husbands behind and enjoy ourselves. With two of us we'd have time to take care of the cats and still have fun! Man - just sitting outside on the lake watching the cats play in the enclosures sounds so relaxing. I'm ready to move right now. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain From: longhornf...@verizon.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2011 09:47:15 -0500 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Living forever :-) Lorrie, I like the way Maureen thinks! I can help Maureen take care of all of your cats, I love her idea even though she's kidding. It would be a great place to retire and between the two of us, we can take care of all the furry babies! Afterall, I will be 47 next month :0) L - Original Message - From: molvey...@hotmail.com To: Lorrie ; felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 9:24 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Living forever :-) Lorrie - I'll pack my bags and be right up. Living on a lake taking care of cats sounds awesome. I'm 45 so hopefully will be around until all your cats die! Give me driving directions!!! I'm a CPA so can work to keep your cats in the lifestyle they're accustomed to living. Ok, just kidding. Wish I could take off sometimes. I've got a lot of cats too, but unless something tragic happens hopefully I'll outlive them. It's scary to think about the future though because you just don't know what will happen and when. I've missed a lot of this thread so I might have missed something but if you're 78, then you could still outlive your cats. My Grandmother is 92 and lives in a small apartment on her own. Best to make plans now of course but by the time you're gone who knows what the situation will be. Tell your kids that you're leaving your house and money to them so between the three of them they could make room for all the cats! Fifteen cats split three ways is no big deal. Cats are pretty easy. Tell them they could close in their garage or build an extra room with your money and then enclose an area of their yard for the cats to go in and that's all the cats would need. Tell them if they don't you're writing them out of your will! sent from my ATT Smartphone by HTC - Reply message - From: Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com Date: Thu, Sep 8, 2011 6:54 pm Subject: [Felvtalk] Living forever :-) To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org On 09-08, Gloria Lane wrote: I'm kindly pondering how to do that. Any web sites that address that I wonder? There are many cat sanctuaries listed on the web, but most are full. Then too, many fail and become like hoarding places because they take in too many cats to care for properly. It is truly difficult to find a good sanctuary, but I'll keep trying. If I knew who would take care of my 15 cats I'd give them my house which is a lovely home in a resort area on a lake. It has been built around the needs of my cats, and has three outside enclosures they can access from the inside via cat flaps. It is also in the woods on several acres with no traffic. It is a paradise for my cats, and I just wish someone could let them continue the happy life they know and love. I will not go to my grave and be at peace until I know my babies are taken care of. Lorrie On Sep 8, 2011, at 8:00 AM, MaiMaiPG maima...@gmail.com wrote: I've provided for the care of my critters (dogs and cats and whatever may show up) in my will. Everything is in trust to be used for their care until they all leave this world. WHO WILL HANDLE YOUR TRUST AND BE SURE YOUR CATS ARE CARED FOR? ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
