[CoTyroneMailingList] Passing on of Tenancies

2020-06-30 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Marion, You discuss the introduction of wills as legalizing the process. Wills have been around for a very long time and it’s perhaps worth mentioning that your ancestors may well have had wills that detailed the various inheritances you suspect just went through perhaps on the nod. That there’

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Passing on of Tenancies

2020-06-29 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Peter, LAP stands for “Land Act Purchase”. As far as I am aware, it was introduced with the 1903 Land Act, often known as Wyndham’s Land Act, so you shouldn’t see it in use before that year. It provided the final piece of legislation to make land ownership more reasonable in Ireland, especially f

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Passing on of Tenancies

2020-06-29 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Rick, I can’t point you to specific legislation, but all I can say is that all the documentation I have ever seen points to a rented farm being heritable the same as any other asset. The farmer was free to dispose of it as he chose. What he was disposing of was the unexpired portion of the lease

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Passing on of Tenancies

2020-06-29 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Peter, Sorry if you feel I misinterpreted your words. (You said: “may be to avoid having to draw up a new lease until it was necessary.”) Dodge wasn’t intended in any pejorative way, simply as being expedient. Elwyn On Mon, 29 Jun 2020 at 11:47, Peter McKittrick via CoTyroneList < cotyro

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Passing on of Tenancies

2020-06-29 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Regarding “reps of” cases, it was common for there to be significant delays in winding up of some estates. That could be a combination of slow or ineffective executors or it could be because there were disputes or other legal matters which delayed things. As a random search, I went to the PRONI

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Looking for info on

2020-06-27 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Jeanette, Thomas Taggart’s marriage in Glasgow in 1871 records that his parents were William Taggart (farm labourer) and Ann Sharp and both were still alive at that date. Irish RC parish records on Ancestry have a record of a Letitia Taggart baptised on 21.7.1846 to William Taggart & Ann Shearp

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Marriage Customs

2020-06-24 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Gordon, I am glad you are enjoying the book. It made me laugh. I have a neighbour who was brought up on a farm like that in Co. Down and he says it’s pretty typical. He particularly recalled the arrival of the first tractor in the late 1940s which he (as a young man) was wildly enthusiastic abo

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Marriage Customs

2020-06-23 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
I would be interested. > > Peter > >  please don't print this email unless you really need to > > -Original Message- > From: CoTyroneList On Behalf > Of elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList > Sent: 22 June 2020 22:49 > To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List &

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Marriage Customs

2020-06-22 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Marion, Sorry you can’t find Connell’s book. It is fairly old (1950) and may not be on-line anywhere. I think I found a copy in the Linenhall Library in Belfast and photocopied a couple of dozen pages. The book looks at Ireland as a whole and I am not sure if every custom reported there was nece

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Marriage Customs

2020-06-21 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Marion, I suspect that a full answer to your interesting question could fill a hundred pages. One source you might want to investigate is: “The Population of Ireland 1750 – 1845” by KH Connell, published in Oxford 1950. One of the many causes of the problems that plagued Ireland in the 1800s

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Landed Proprietor followup. CoTyroneList Digest, Vol 664, Issue 1

2020-06-20 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Griffiths Valuation lists John Watson with 3 plots in the townland, totaling 50 acres, which he was renting from John Shaw. So he was a farmer with a decent amount of land, but which he didn’t own. He, or his son, evidently saw that as being a landed proprietor. Sounds grander than farmer. Elwy

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Landed Proprietor question. Cty. Tyrone 1885

2020-06-20 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
To me it meant he owned land. As an example, someone who owned a big shooting estate would be a landed proprietor. Occasionally occupations on marriage certificates can be a bit tongue in cheek, and you sometimes see rather grandiose terms. A dustman becomes a refuse disposal operative and so on

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Elwyn's tutorial

2020-06-13 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Katie, Can I say thank you. 3 or 4 other folk on the board have also e-mailed me privately to express similar sentiments. I am touched. All I would say is that when I see a query that I think contains issues of wider interest to other members of this board, I try to answer in a way that will

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Morrison Family Name in Ulster 1610 - 1633

2020-06-11 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Rick, Ballyboe is from the Irish words “Baile bo” meaning “cow land.” According to Philip Robinson - “The Plantation of Ulster”, a ballyboe was “A small Irish land division which, before the plantation, represented the territory within which several families worked the land. Although the real ar

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Ancestry- Spite test

2020-06-01 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
The Vikings presence in Ireland was from around 795AD to 1000AD. So well over 1000 years ago. Most genealogical DNA tests don’t go back that far, or anywhere near it. Just a few generations really. If you have some DNA from that part of Europe it probably comes from some other much more recent conn

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] James Happer, Drumadd Townland

2020-05-22 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Peggy, Armalughey in the parish of Carnteel seems pretty likely. There were several Happer families farming there in the 1827 tithes including a James. https://cotyroneireland.com/tithe/carnteel.html By Griffiths Valuation in 1860 the surname was spelled Hopper. Likewise in the 1901 census

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Morrison Family Name in Ulster 1610 - 1633

2020-05-21 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Rick, The surname, the general location and the family denomination all point to them being settlers who probably arrived in Ireland in the 1600s. MacLysaght’s surnames of Ireland describes Morrison as “an English name numerous in Ulster.” The location ie Tyrone, is a county heavily settled

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] I'm trying to find my great grandfather Felix John Quinn

2020-05-13 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
vit of his age. My only other record is his > immigration record as a passenger in 1851 listing him as 3 years old. > Lizanne Smith > > On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 4:52 AM elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList < > cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> wrote: > > > As additional info

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] How do you pronounce "Ye" ??

2020-05-13 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
There’s similar confusion over the letter Z as it appears in surnames in Ireland and Scotland. Gaelic doesn’t have the letter Y and scholars, perhaps unwisely, decided to express that sound using the letter Z instead. So the surname Dalziel is correctly pronounced Dee-Yell. (But sometimes now spell

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Place Names in County Donegal

2020-05-07 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
David, Try this site: https://www.logainm.ie/en/ Elwyn On Thu, 7 May 2020 at 18:34, David Prater via CoTyroneList < cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> wrote: > There is a great "place name" website for Northern Ireland at > Placenamesni.org, but it does not cover County Donegal. Is there an > e

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] I'm trying to find my great grandfather Felix John Quinn

2020-05-07 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Francesca, As others have explained, Munterevlin/Munterdevlin is a general area up the west side of Lough Neagh. Mainly in Counties Tyrone & Derry. You can see what RC parishes there are in the general area from the attached two maps: https://www.johngrenham.com/browse/counties/rcmaps/tyroner

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] 1800s Croziers

2020-04-26 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Martha, Families often carried names forward from generation to generation. With that in mind, I searched the 1901 Irish census for Ralph Crozier. There was just one in the whole country. He lived in Magheralough in Tyrone. The family was Church of Ireland (ie Anglican). http://www.census.nati

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] CoTyroneIreland.com - New Content - Townlands, Civil Parishes, Baronies & Dioceses Maps of Co. Donegal, Ireland

2020-02-23 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
n from Griffith and > then used Google Earth to 'drive' along the virtual roads where they > lived. Almost as good as being there! Sadly their farmhouse ain't there > any more. :( > > Gordon > > On 23/02/2020 5:36 pm, elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList wro

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] CoTyroneIreland.com - New Content - Townlands, Civil Parishes, Baronies & Dioceses Maps of Co. Donegal, Ireland

2020-02-22 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Susan, You might find the historical maps on the PRONI website helpful: https://apps.spatialni.gov.uk/PRONIApplication/ There’s a whole set of maps of Tyrone (and the rest of Northern Ireland) with the oldest dating to 1832. You can switch between them to compare the changes through the yea

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Bishopric of Derry Estate records

2020-02-05 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Tunji, You ask what type of information is in the Bishopric Estate records. If you owned a property today and rented it out, what records would you keep? A brief description of the property, length of the lease (plus perhaps any special conditions), the rent, details of any arrears and the name of

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Fulton - Windy Hill, near Donemana

2020-01-15 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Edward & Albert look to be separate people. Probate abstracts from the PRONI wills site: Fulton Edward Henry of Windyhill Donemana county Tyrone retired farmer died 27 March 1954 at the Waterside Hospital Londonderry Probate Londonderry 2 July to Albert Joseph Fulton farmer and John Wray Fulton

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] death of Joshua Hamilton 1923

2020-01-06 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Peggy, Irishgenealogy only has records for Northern Ireland up to 31.12.1921. For events after that, the only site with them is GRONI. I have looked and can confirm that Joshua’s death is there, aged 88 (which of course is just the informant’s guesstimate) and registered in Cookstown. If you wan

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] John Chambers (1796-1867)

2019-12-06 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Ireland) went to Church, Catholics attended the Chapel and Presbyterians > gathered in the Meeting House. > > > > Regards, > > Len Swindley, Melbourne, Australia > > > > > > > > Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] John Chambers (1796-1867)

2019-12-05 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Tom, If you contact the Presbyterian Historical Society in Belfast, they are likely to have records on the Rev MaClear which should tell you where he served as Minister (as well as other information about his life). http://www.presbyterianhistoryireland.com The term “Meeting House” was how

[CoTyroneMailingList] Re Campbell research - Message for Donna Campbell

2019-12-02 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Donna, Your family may not be easy to trace. Both Mary & Elizabeth were almost certainly born before the start of statutory birth registration (1864) and so you won’t get birth certificates for them. You need to rely on church records for baptisms before 1864. Not all those records have survived a

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] CTI Updates & Additons

2019-12-01 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
JoAnn, You haven’t said what denomination your McQuade family was but looking at the 1901 census for Tyrone all 131 were RC so I’ll assume yours were too. I searched the rootsireland records for any McQuade children born in Tyrone in 1830 +/- 10 years to parents named Dominick and Susan. I di

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Fw: Robert Hamilton and Margaret Mallon

2019-11-25 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Cheryl, The PRONI guide to church records suggests Ballymagrane Presbyterian has no marriage records before 1845. Possibly your DNA contact got the information from some other source eg a newspaper report? I think you might need to ask. Elwyn On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 at 17:39, cheryl lyttle vi

[CoTyroneMailingList] Tithe Applotment records for Tyrone

2019-11-05 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
There’s been some discussion on the board about how to see the full information in tithe applotment records for Tyrone. PRONI have the records on microfilm which at present can only be accessed by going there in person. However they have also recently loaded the images on to their public computer n

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Revision Books of Griffiths Valuation

2019-09-07 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Griffiths clerks revisited properties every couple of years and noted the changes. A different colour was normally used for each year. Sometimes the years can be out by a year or two. The books themselves do have a specific start and finish dates which are evident if you handle the originals. Typic

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Tithe applotment indices list Kilsally

2019-09-04 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
When comparing the size of the tithes with the plots in Griffiths (as Len has suggested) it's important to remember that tithes were normally measured in Irish acres, whereas Griffiths is in statute acres.So you cannot directly compare the two correctly without adjusting for the difference. To con

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Relatives

2019-08-28 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Agnes, Scottish birth certificates for the year 1855 and 1861 onwards should record where and when the parents married. It seems you may have found some that just say Tyrone. Usually there’s more than that. Check all possible Scottish certificates for the years I have given, in case you get some

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Fw: grandmother research

2019-08-28 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Patty, I noticed this death announcement for Quentin Hurst of 10, Aghnahoe Rd: https://www.funeraltimes.com/quentinhurst404931566 There is still someone named Hurst at that address in the current phone book. No Nicholas listed. I note that Quentin was buried in the churchyard at Ballyreagh Presb

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Thanks/ Ogilby Estate, Lisnacloon, Donemana, , Co Tyrone

2019-08-20 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Pat, You say that you are not sure if the Sarah Taggart is your branch, as everything you have doesn’t list her as a child of Francis & Mary. All I can say is that on her marriage certificate she gave her townland as Liscloon, her father as Francis Taggart, labourer and as you have said yourself h

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Thanks

2019-08-19 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
but it’ll be tight. > Any suggestion for the PRONI office to look threw? Or are there any > Taggart’s/McKeevers still around Liscloon I might talk to? Thanks again for > all the information. Pat > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 19, 2019, at 10:43, elwyn soutter via Co

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Thanks

2019-08-19 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
There are some Ogilby papers in PRONI, mainly under the holding D1550. There are some leases but I don’t see anything that looks like rental books if that is what you had in mind. And even if they did have them, there’s not going to be a lot of detail on a labourer’s cottage. Elwyn On 19/08/2019,

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Taggart/McKeever: Donagheady Parish Presbyterian Records

2019-08-19 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
https://www.cotyroneireland.com/churchrecord/bready.html > > Bready Reformed Presbyterian Church Marriages 1847-62 > > https://www.cotyroneireland.com/marriages/bready.html > > > > It is a formidable collection contributed by numerous descendants of > Donagheady emigrants to C

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Taggart/McKeever

2019-08-18 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
parents > could be William and Anne Irwin. Can’t find anything about when where they > were married. I think Williams parents were Francis and Dorothy Taggart but > no proof. Thanks for the help. Pay > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 18, 2019, at 17:34, elwyn soutter via Co

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Taggart/McKeever

2019-08-18 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Looking at the PRONI catalogue of church records, there are 3 Presbyterian churches in Donagheady that the Taggart family might have attended. Donagheady 1st seems to have lost its early records and has nothing before 1875; Donagheady 2nd has records from 1838 and Donemana from 1856. If John was b

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] James Ewing and Elizabeth Bell

2019-08-18 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Karen, You say Dennis Hopper has been traced to Tullyvannon in the parish of Errigal Keerogue. I cannot find any Tullyvannon in Errigal Keerogue. The only Tullyvannon in Tyrone is in the parish of Killeeshil. Assuming Killeeshil is the parish the family lived in, the problem you face is the lack

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Emigration to......England

2019-08-07 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Ian, Tyrone to Durham was (and still is) a short domestic journey. There have never been passenger lists for that type of travel within the British isles. Elwyn On 07/08/2019, Ian Moules via CoTyroneList wrote: > My great grandmother, Margaret Mullin, when a child, emigrated from Tyrone > to

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] A Query on the Ulster Plantation - a late arrival?

2019-07-31 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Gordon, The Plantation of Ulster was very much a 17th century event. The main years when folk arrived were 1610-1630. Anyone arriving in the 19th century did not come as part of the Plantation. Folk did arrive after the Plantation. For example, in the 1640s, General Monro’s army of 10,000 Scots w

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Hamilton ancestors

2019-07-29 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Christine, Tradition was to marry in the bride’s church after which she’d normally attend her husband’s. So marriage and children’s baptisms are often in different churches. In this case the bride lived in Grange. Grange is in Desertcreat, so I’d expect that to be her family church. The groom was

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] McGarvey & McCluskey ancestors; Townland and Estate Research (need help with this one!) - and thanks to transcribers!

2019-07-24 Thread Elwyn Soutter via CoTyroneList
You can search the Verner estates records using the PRONI e-catalogue. That will give you an indication of the type of records they have. Typically estate records are leases, rental payments, details of legal cases, family papers, estate maps, bills, reports from the local estate manager and th

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Maguire Family

2019-07-23 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Angela, I see that Patrick McPhillips was in the RIC, and presumably stationed at Trillick when he met Margaret. RIC policy was not to post an Officer to a county in which he or his wife had connections. Consequently when a police officer married someone local as in this case, it normally meant th

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] MCBRIDE/KELLY

2019-07-21 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Kim, Tirnaskea is fairly straightforward to find. Firstly, you need to know there are 3 townlands named Tirnaskea in Tyrone. The one you want (in the RC parish of Errigal Kieran) is in the civil parish of Errigal Keerogue. In Griffiths Valuation of 1860 there were 4 McBride farms there, all close

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] McGreece / M'Griece / Magreese family; Kinine, Tyrone

2019-07-20 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Kinine is in the parish of Kilskeery. To save a little duplication, here’s a reply I sent Malcolm on another genealogy board. Malcolm isn’t convinced that McGreece and McGinnis might be the same. I’d be interested to see if anyone can come up with an alternative explanation of how Ellen & Patrick

[CoTyroneMailingList] Coulter Family

2019-07-08 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Barb, You say you can't find my message, so I am resending it: Cooel is part of Coolavannagh townland, or an alternative name for it. Today that’s on the Glen Rd outside Drumquin. I see a death for a William Coulter in Cooel on 3.2.1884 aged 67. His son William was the informant. There’s this

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Coulter family - Cooel, Dromore

2019-07-07 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Barb, Cooel is part of Coolavannagh townland, or an alternative name for it. Today that’s on the Glen Rd outside Drumquin. I see a death for a William Coulter in Cooel on 3.2.1884 aged 67. His son William was the informant. There’s this 1 Coulter family there in 1901: http://www.census.nationala

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Devine and McCormick families in County Tyrone

2019-07-05 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Stan, The townland where I think your Devine ancestors lived for many years was Clogherny near Gortin, in Co. Tyrone. There’s a record of Catherine’s birth there on 24th March 1889: https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1889/02485/1922146.pdf Family in

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] County Derry Genealogical list

2019-07-05 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Carmen, There isn’t an equivalent site for Co Londonderry but I don’t mind answering your query so far as I can. If Killaig Presbyterian was the family church then its baptism records start in 1805 and marriages in 1836. So if daughter Rachel was baptised there c 1820 you may get her mother’s mai

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Plumbridge around 1815 - Derry or tyrone

2019-07-04 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Plumbridge has been in Tyrone since at least the 1600s. There was a change in the county borders in 1613 when part of Tyrone was moved into Derry (the barony of Loughinsholin) but that didn’t affect Plumbridge which remained in Tyrone. I think the information you have is probably just a mistake. O

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] CoTyroneIreland.com - New Content - Sarah O' Kane, Lost Child from Altdoghal, Ardstraw Parish, Co. Tyrone 1817

2019-07-02 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Cheryl, If you think that the Lyttle/Little family were Church of Ireland and lived in Lisnaskea, have you searched the local Church of Ireland records? Lisnaskea is one of several churches in the parish of Aghalurcher. It’s baptism, marriage & burial records start in 1804. The records aren’t on-l

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Steele/ Farr Families

2019-06-29 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Ann, The parish where the marriage took place is more commonly called Tullyniskan. I searched the statutory marriage records for a first marriage for Martha Farr 1845 – 1855 but did not find one. That suggests she married before April 1845, which is when those records begin, or that she had marri

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] John McDevitt and Family in County Tyrone

2019-06-26 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
David, The primary reason that the church in Ardstraw can’t help is probably because they don’t have any records for that period. Ardstraw West RC records start in 1846 and Ardstraw East in 1860. So they will have nothing on someone born in the late 1700s. No easy way around that. Regarding the s

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Rose Devlin death

2019-06-24 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Yes that’s the right death. It’s indexed on irishgenealogy under Rosev (presumably a mistake for Rosey) and that explains why I couldn’t find it. https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1893/05996/4706065.pdf On 24/06/2019, Peggy Gordon via CoTyroneList

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Lily Devlin Mor

2019-06-24 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Tomas, The RC church records for Arboe list 4 children to Patrick Devlin & Rose Mallon (there may have been more but they don’t show up on Ancestry): Felix bapt 3.2.1851 Joseph baptised 2.4.1854 John 13.3.1857 Bridget 15.1.1865 I can also find a statutory birth certificate for Bridget which show

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] William IRWIN

2019-06-22 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
David, The likely reason for obtaining the copy of the 1841 census in 1911 would be for old age pension purposes. The OAP was introduced in 1909 for those aged 70 or over. Proof of age was required. Obviously no-one in Ireland born before 1864 had a birth certificate. Some had baptismal certs and

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] ADAMS from Omagh, County Tyrone

2019-06-22 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
ould help find our more > about John McKee, Rev. David Evans or the settlers who set out from > Cavanakeeran for Canada? Thank you for this great letter and all the > details, a wonderful breadth of knowledge goes into this. > > Cheers > > Ron McCoy > > On 2019-06-21 11:23 a.

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] ADAMS from Omagh, County Tyrone

2019-06-21 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
an something more then we take from it > today? Does it mean money or position in the 1830"s? Can you elaborate on > that for me if it does what would that entail for them and their families? > Cheers > Ron McCoy > > On 2019-06-21 8:33 a.m., elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] ADAMS from Omagh, County Tyrone

2019-06-21 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Darlene, You can use the Griffiths Valuation site to see where the surname Adams was found in Co Tyrone in 1860. There are 144 listed, right across the county. There were 223 Adams in the county in the 1901 census. But the problem you really face is that hardly any parishes in Tyrone have any rec

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Searching for ADAMS descendants

2019-05-30 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
DM, It isn’t quite clear what you are hoping to achieve on your visit but if it is to view the Church of Ireland records, then the principal church in Cappagh parish has baptism, marriage and burial records from 1753 onwards. The originals appear to be still held by the parish and there is a copy

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] CoTyroneList Digest, Vol 394, Issue 1

2019-05-30 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Charlotte: According to the John Grenham site the name Hamilton is: “Very numerous: throughout Ulster, extending into Leinster and Connacht. An important Scottish name which came in the Plantation of Ulster, 17 cent. The town of Manorhamilton in Leitrim is indicative of their extensive holdings.

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Question about Family Court Records, County of Tyrone

2019-05-27 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Rosie, Most court papers are deposited with PRONI in Belfast. So that is your first port of call. Northern Ireland has only had formal adoption law since 1927 so though you haven’t given a date, the adoption must have been since then. Adoption papers for Co. Tyrone are held in PRONI under the ser

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Weirs in Ballysudden and Cookstown

2019-05-07 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Griffiths Valuation lists Samuel Weir farming in Ballysudden. He had plot 11 which was a farm of just under 11 acres. Easy enough to locate today should you wish to do so. He remains tenant in the Valuation revision records until 1888 when he is replaced by Andrew Barkley, who I suspect may have be

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Hammond (or Haman) & Nancy GRAHAM

2019-04-25 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Lindsay, The townland where William Graham was living when he married in 1855 appears to be Artigarvan (where the church is also located). Today that’s on the B49 Berryhill Rd, just outside Strabane. Sarah lived in Milltown townland which is immediately adjacent. Tradition was to marry in the bri

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Foremass

2019-04-14 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Ian, Foremass is in Errigal Keerogue parish. Elwyn On 14/04/2019, Ian Moules via CoTyroneList wrote: > Dear All > > Which (parish) records should I be checking for relatives (Mullin/Mullen) > from Foremass? > > I have a number of christening records from help that I received from > members of t

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Alexander Ferguson

2019-04-09 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Carmen, Statutory birth registration only started in Ireland in 1864, so you won’t find a birth certificate for Alexander or Matilda. Prior to that year you need to rely on church baptism records, where they exist. Likewise for marriages, statutory marriage registration only started in 1845 (for n

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Need Geography help

2019-02-25 Thread Elwyn Soutter via CoTyroneList
Ron,   As far as I am aware there’s no townlandnamed Armagh in Co. Tyrone and no Tyrone in Co. Armagh. However as you havespotted, some parishes cross the county borders and are in both, and the whole Armaghdiocese covers both counties. Someone born or married in Co. Tyrone couldappear in some

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Armstrongs from Gortin and Beltrim

2019-02-19 Thread Elwyn Soutter via CoTyroneList
If you are interested in background readingon the Armstrongs, and other border reiver families, such as Nixon, Elliot,Bell, Graham, Henderson, Hogg and many other names now common in Fermanagh& Tyrone then a good read is: “The Border Reivers” by Godfrey Watson ISBN 07091 4478 4. Published 1974.

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Fwd: Meehan family information

2019-02-13 Thread Elwyn Soutter via CoTyroneList
You won’t get a birth certificate forMichael Meehan because his birth was long before the start of statutory birthcertificates in Ireland (1864). Prior to 1864 we generally rely on churchrecords but in this case if he was born near Carrickmore (Termonmaguirk parish)in 1831, their baptisms don’t

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Irish Bally---ony

2019-01-14 Thread Elwyn Soutter via CoTyroneList
- I don’t have any contemporary descriptions of Scots-Irish accents in Tyrone in the 1800s but I do have some from Antrim which suggest that at that period, the Ulster Scots spoke with a clear Scottish accent. (Today it has modified a bit though it  remains quite different from the rest o

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Samuel Cavin Born Abt. 1701 Templereagh, Donaghenry Parish, Co., Tyrone Northern Ireland

2019-01-07 Thread Elwyn Soutter via CoTyroneList
Tina,   If Samuel served as a Minister in Ireland, thePresbyterian Church Historical Society in Belfast should have some brief details ofhis career and background:   http://www.presbyterianhistoryireland.com   It wasn’t possible for prospective PresbyterianMinisters to get a degree in theol

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] CoTyroneIreland.com - New Content - Archbishopric of Armagh Estate: Tenants of the Lease of John Speir & Robt. Speir, Gent: 1703 Parishes of Donaghenry & Ballyclog, Co. Tyron

2019-01-02 Thread Elwyn Soutter via CoTyroneList
Patricia, Joseph left a will. Here’s his probateabstract. (The will itself is in PRONI in Belfast) in paper format. If you goin person you can view it free, or if not, PRONI will copy it for you (for afee).   Hadden Joseph Alexander of Lough Park Ballygawley county Tyronefarmer died 17 March 1

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] getting a researcher

2018-12-07 Thread Elwyn Soutter via CoTyroneList
Family Tree DNA reportedly has more peoplewith Ulster roots than any other company. That obviously increases the chancesof finding a match. If you have already tested,you can transfer your results to them for no fee.   The North of Ireland Family History Societyis running an Ulster DNA project

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Using a researcher

2018-12-03 Thread Elwyn Soutter via CoTyroneList
Margaret,  I echo what Boyd has said.  Armstrong is a very common name in Ireland.In the 1901 census there are 6122. 545 in Co Tyrone, 6 named Samuel and41 named William. The names would have been even more common in the mid 1800s asthe population was considerably greater then. (It was 8 mill

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] The Big Wind of 1839

2018-11-06 Thread Elwyn Soutter via CoTyroneList
Beverley, You could try contacting the Local Studiessection at Omagh Library and asking them what they have. There ought to be some newspapers accounts and they may have personalaccounts from folk who were there.  Therelevant date seems to have been 6th Jan 1839.   https://www.thoughtco.com/ir

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] The Food of Our Tyrone Forbears

2018-10-31 Thread Elwyn Soutter via CoTyroneList
The stir-about pot was hung on a swiveledarm over the open fire, and the housewife just dropped anything available intoit. Mainly potatoes and oats, and sometimes the odd onion. Meat was a rarity,though rabbits and so on were an occasional bonus.  It all went in together. Pretty basic stuff.  

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] A few thoughts on the Lt. Stother account

2018-10-26 Thread Elwyn Soutter via CoTyroneList
Peter, I take your point about the Lieutenant’slikely background but there are plenty of other contemporaneous descriptions oflife in Ireland in the mid 1800s, some written by respected Irish born people that tend tosupport his account of rural life.   The image of spending 12 hours planting

[CoTyroneMailingList] Life in Tyrone in the 1800s

2018-10-26 Thread Elwyn Soutter via CoTyroneList
Continuing the theme of trying to get afeel for life in Tyrone in the 1800s, folk might be interested in details ofearly school records that they might find interesting.   Broadly, there are 2 sets of records heldin PRONI. The first is attendance records. So that’s daily attendance for eachpu

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Observations on the Inhabitants of Clogher Parish, Co. Tyrone, Northern Ireland 1833-5

2018-10-26 Thread Elwyn Soutter via CoTyroneList
Ron,   It’s sometimes possible to see our ancestors’lives through rose tinted glasses.  Sometimes they didn’t live all that well, whether through fecklessnessor simply poverty. You are scathing about the description of houses where youcan see “pigs and fowls in the kitchen and everything is dir

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Life in Tyrone in the 19th century

2018-10-20 Thread Elwyn Soutter via CoTyroneList
ld who are challenged in our quests for information about our family members in Ireland, you provide a window into their times.  More,please!Gail IRWIN Mooney / xo From: "elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList" To: "CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List" Cc: "elwyn soutter" Sent: Frid

[CoTyroneMailingList] Life in Tyrone in the 19th century. item 2.

2018-10-19 Thread Elwyn Soutter via CoTyroneList
Ihave been asked for other papers that give a flavour of life in Tyrone in the1800s. I have attached this one from the Abercorn Estate papers which (I think)shows that not all the big estate owners were totally heartless people screwingevery last penny out of their tenants. We are often told tha

[CoTyroneMailingList] Life in Tyrone in the 19th century

2018-10-19 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
>From a recent post about farming in Tyrone, I sense there is an interest in day to day life in Tyrone in the 1800s. The following document might therefore interest members of this forum. I found it in PRONI and thought it gave a good description of life then. *PRONI Reference : * T2279/2 ME

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] IRWINS from Clogher, County Tyrone

2018-10-17 Thread Elwyn Soutter via CoTyroneList
Gail, Statutory marriage registration started in Irelandin 1845 (save for RC marriages). Statutory birth registration started in 1864(as did RC marriage registration). So the Irwin-McCutcheon marriage and alltheir Irish born children are well before those start dates. So you won’t finda marriage

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] IRWINS from Clogher, County Tyrone

2018-10-17 Thread Elwyn Soutter via CoTyroneList
Gail,   For information, the Christopher Irwin inthe 1901 census married Ann Carson on 17.1.1855 in Clogher Church of Ireland.He was 22 and a widower. He lived in Clare More (sometimes spelled Clayermore)and his father was Thomas Irwin, a farmer. (Christopher previously had marriedElizabeth Mo

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] sailing information

2018-10-16 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Possibly worth bearing in mind that whilst there were direct ships from Ireland to Canada and elsewhere throughout the 1800s, there were far more from Liverpool. Liverpool acted as a clearing house for migrants from all over Europe, and had far more departures than from Ireland. Competition for the

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Gibson Ancestors

2018-08-19 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Nancy, James will says that he had a farm in Ballee (which he left to his 2 sisters). Looking at the Valuation revision records for Ballee, I see 2 Porter farms there. Plot 16 was James senior and consisted of 28 acres, 1 rood & 25 perches. It was rented from the Abercorn estate. The tenant change

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] sailing information

2018-08-17 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Ron, The requirement to compile passenger lists largely came about to satisfy inward immigration regulations. So after the US became independent from the UK, the US authorities eventually introduced the requirement. But in the early to mid 1800s Canada was still part of the UK. Belfast to Quebec

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Dunn PRONI Burial Record Question: Donagheady Parish

2018-08-17 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Kerry, There are 2 Church of Ireland churches in Donagheady parish. Donagheady itself and Dunnalong. It looks as though this burial was conducted by the Minister from Dunnalong. Unless the register happens to say where the burial took place (some were meticulous about recording that, most weren’t

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Morrisons of Loughterush townland

2018-07-24 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Lisa, The births and marriage were before the start of statutory registration in Ireland (1864 for births and 1845 for non RC marriages). So you will have to search church records, where they still exist. To do that ideally you need to know the family denomination and their townland or parish.

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Morrisons of Loughterush townland (kilskeery)

2018-07-24 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
st] Morrisons of Loughterush townland > (kilskeery) > > Thanks for your response and information! > > Narrows it down some anyway. I guess i just need to keep searching for > records of my Morrison ancestors there until i get all the way back to the > 1600s ... only about 6 more to go

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Morrisons of Loughterush townland (kilskeery)

2018-07-21 Thread elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Rick, There aren’t any specific lists of people who settled in Ireland as part of the Plantation and other population movements in the 1600s. All we really know are the names of the big tenants (Undertakers) and where in Scotland they came from. But there are no lists of the tenants that accompa