>> ...by Electrify America, they said that they charge 31¢/kWh.
I have seen rates as low as 3 cents per kW
for EV charging off-peak for those that sign up for a TOU plan
(includes much higher peak rates)
"Hydrogen Fool cell" is a reasonable moniker.
Wont this thread ever die?
OOps, forgot. My
On 25 Aug 2021 at 6:54, jim--- via EV wrote:
> within a mile or two of my house there are at least a half dozen
> publicly available charging stations.
That's what's great about EVs.
Almost every commercial building has enough electrical capacity to install
at least a level 2 (~10kW)
I don’t know.
- Mark
Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
> On Aug 25, 2021, at 2:39 AM, Peter Eckhoff via EV wrote:
>
> Where and who is building them ?
>
>> On Wed, Aug 25, 2021 at 3:30 AM Mark Abramowitz via EV
>> wrote:
>>
>> One other update on subsidies for stations - some new
- See my note about the capacity of fueling stations being built today. Your
number is no longer correct.
- the needed infrastructure ratio makes me neither happy nor unhappy. They
just are what they are, but you need to adjust comparisons based on that, as
you have done (I’m not commenting
Mark Abramowitz said in small part:
> Granted, because of the limited infrastructure currently, those consumers in
> the US for
> whom it would work fine is very small. In California, much less so.
Guess again. You keep talking about how much infrastructure there is in
California - and the
Where and who is building them ?
On Wed, Aug 25, 2021 at 3:30 AM Mark Abramowitz via EV
wrote:
> One other update on subsidies for stations - some new stations are being
> built *without* state funding.
>
> - Mark
>
> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
>
> > On Aug 24, 2021, at 11:11 PM,
>
> In regard to your question “ How is comparing the number of stations that are
> ACTUALLY open not an
> "apples to apples" comparison?” - If you are trying to compare how many
> vehicles you have the
> capacity to serve, there is not a one to one match. A hydrogen fueling “spot”
> can
One other update on subsidies for stations - some new stations are being built
*without* state funding.
- Mark
Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
> On Aug 24, 2021, at 11:11 PM, Mark Abramowitz wrote:
>
> Let me give you sources for the exact numbers for up to date data, rather
> than
Let me give you sources for the exact numbers for up to date data, rather than
rely on my memory.
On station cost and the % amount that the subsidy has dropped, you can either
go to the CEC website, and look at the latest funding awards, or you can look
at a summary put together by the
You are definitely in great shape for at-home charging. Hopefully that is
usually sufficient for you.
On the hydrogen side, the $16.50 price was correct in 2019. The price is NOT
subsidized by California. With the newer stations and greater competition they
are starting to come down and will
Ok - we disagree about the date to use. I was just using CARB’s analysis and
the dates they pick. But it really doesn’t matter.
On number of stations, you repeat exactly what I said, that the 2020 numbers
are a projection. It had to be, 2020 wasn’t over. But everything prior was an
actual
> Also, since we are talking about the consumers perspective, I think you are
> making common mistake
> in equating cost with price.
>
> Going back to your comment about cost of charging, that has to be based on
> price, not cost. At a
> recent presentation by Electrify America, they said that
> It's certainly a fraction of BEV sales, but it's not that low. The
> following is the best data I can find without an exhaustive search, but it's
> incomplete:
My mistake (again) I search for "2021 total fuel cell vehicles" and came up
with this:
> You want to define it in your way, fine, know know that the industry and the
> state look at it
> differently. Despite the marketing PR of the OEMs.
>
> “Modern” batteries - We differ on definition of modern EV versus not. I view
> the not- modern ones
> to be the ones that were common in the
Mark,
I gave you an apples to apples comparison of range using a fixed
wholesale price for electricity for producing hydrogen via
electrolysis versus that same amount of electricity at that price to
power an EV for respective distances. The electrolysis percentage is
from Wiki, which I have seen
I have no idea whether any of your calcs or most assumptions are correct.
But I’m not sure what “80%” number that you say I’ve referenced is. To what are
you referring?
Also, since we are talking about the consumers perspective, I think you are
making common mistake in equating cost with
Availability - fair enough, if you want to define it that way. But then, you
need to be consistent with how you define it.
But I don’t think it’s ridiculous for me not to count them as “available”.
The fueling stations were all “pilot” and not considered “retail” stations.
Retail stations
On 24 Aug 2021 at 16:05, Peter VanDerWal via EV wrote:
> Why is it then that while there have been over a million BEVs
> sold, there have been less than 7,000 FCEVs sold?
It's certainly a fraction of BEV sales, but it's not that low. The
following is the best data I can find without an
The difference in weight is less than 10 pounds. If what you say is true, is
that even measurable? Count me skeptical.
- Mark
Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
> On Aug 24, 2021, at 6:01 AM, Willie via EV wrote:
>
>
>> On 8/24/21 2:56 AM, Martin WINLOW via EV wrote:
>> Mark: "In
> FCEVs are certainly earlier stage than EVs.
The first FCEV was demonstrated around 60 years ago, the first LiIon BEV was
only developed about 20 years ago.
The only difference between a modern BEV and a FCEV, is the large LiIon battery
vs the fuel cell and associated H2 storage, etc. (and a
> Well, a history lesson for you….technically, yes, Honda did start producing
> an FCX Clarity in 2008
> in Japan, and first available there. However, this was essentially a run of
> demo vehicles with a
> very limited number of people that were given them to try. Some key
> influencers got
I can see how it feels that way but I don’t have a dog in this fight. I agree
with the others. You have a lot of talking points but no data.
Sent from AT Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Monday, August 23, 2021, 8:49 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV
wrote:
Yep. My money is on the bully factor.
- Mark
On 8/24/21 2:56 AM, Martin WINLOW via EV wrote:
Mark: "In pondering what attraction a FCEV might have over a BEV, I hit upon an
extremely minor one. BEVs do not shed mass as they are driven, while
FCEVs do. So, FCEVs should see a very slight rise in efficiency as they
expend their fuel while
Mark: "In pondering what attraction a FCEV might have over a BEV, I hit upon an
>
>> extremely minor one. BEVs do not shed mass as they are driven, while
>> FCEVs do. So, FCEVs should see a very slight rise in efficiency as they
>> expend their fuel while BEVs do not. I am NOT claiming that it
A number of things to correct here:
- Availability dates:
Well, a history lesson for you….technically, yes, Honda did start producing an
FCX Clarity in 2008 in Japan, and first available there. However, this was
essentially a run of demo vehicles with a very limited number of people that
Other than my mistake about the total number of H2 fueling stations, what
specifically was incorrect?
My PGP public key: https://vanderwal.us/evdl_pgp.key
August 23, 2021 5:57 PM, "Mark Abramowitz via EV" wrote:
> Sums it up nicely with incorrect information?
>
> - Mark
>
> Sent from my
Sums it up nicely with incorrect information?
- Mark
Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
> On Aug 23, 2021, at 5:02 PM, Alan Arrison via EV wrote:
>
> Enough with the hydrogen, Peter sums it up nicely.
>
>> On 8/23/2021 7:27 PM, Peter VanDerWal via EV wrote:
>> I thought it was obvious I
Yep. My money is on the bully factor.
- Mark
Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
> On Aug 23, 2021, at 4:55 PM, Peter VanDerWal via EV wrote:
>
> Yes, it is enteresting that nobody (including you) has posted a single
> advantage that FCEVs currently have over BEVs.
>
> Rather telling
You may disagree, but they did give some reasons why someone might choose one
over another.
To a question “Is an FCEV or a BEV the better choice for a consumer?” The
answer is “it depends.”
- Mark
Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
> On Aug 23, 2021, at 4:53 PM, Peter VanDerWal via EV
A few responses:
FCEVs are certainly earlier stage than EVs. Costs are coming down quickly. But
to the consumer, FCEVs aren’t necessary more expensive. For the cost of a Tesla
S, the only one out when I bought my first FCEV, I could buy at least two
FCEVs, taking into account factory and other
Enough with the hydrogen, Peter sums it up nicely.
On 8/23/2021 7:27 PM, Peter VanDerWal via EV wrote:
I thought it was obvious I was comparing BEV vs FCEV. Apparently not.
Higher cost to build? Well, yeah. But don’t BEVs cost more to build,
An FCEV is an EV with a fuel cell, so most of the
Yes, it is enteresting that nobody (including you) has posted a single
advantage that FCEVs currently have over BEVs.
Rather telling wouldn't you say?
My PGP public key: https://vanderwal.us/evdl_pgp.key
August 19, 2021 11:22 AM, "Mark Abramowitz via EV" wrote:
> I guess no one sees *any*
Drivel mostly.
She compares energy density, but completely ignores the weight of H2 tanks,
fuel cells, batteries, etc. on the FCEV. Once you add those in the differences
are negligible.
She lists the speed advantage of refueling, but glosses over the fact that if
you not close to one of the
I thought it was obvious I was comparing BEV vs FCEV. Apparently not.
> Higher cost to build? Well, yeah. But don’t BEVs cost more to build,
An FCEV is an EV with a fuel cell, so most of the extra BEV costs are still
there (still needs an electric motor/controller/batteries/etc)
You say a
Yeah, and that was the folks with "high efficiency" EVs (or ones carrying over
1/2 ton), my pickup only got ~35-40 miles on 1/2 ton of lead.
My PGP public key: https://vanderwal.us/evdl_pgp.key
> "EVDL Administrator via EV" wrote:
>
>> He was down to 50 miles remaining and beginning to
On 23 Aug 2021 at 8:46, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote:
> I wouldnTMt expect that Toyota had that kind of editorial influence, nor
> would exercise it if they could.
They don't need to.
The once-solid firewalls between the management and fiscal people and the
newsrooms are crumbling even in
Willie,
I actually didn’t see the “EVDL Administrator” questions. I don’t see his stuff
- they go automatically in the bit bucket.
As far as the main question you and Peter posted, I’ve posted that I prefer to
sit back and see what others come up with.
I’m pretty sure I’ve already posted my
I wouldn’t expect that Toyota had that kind of editorial influence, nor would
exercise it if they could.
The statement was clearly not correct, and maybe the person just misspoke. But
wind day and night? Consistently? The data I’ve seen over the years indicates
that most wind is at at night.
Hydrogen lobbyist quits, slams oil companies’ “false claims” about blue
hydrogen Recent studies have questioned blue hydrogen’s low-carbon bona
fides.
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/08/ex-lobbyist-slams-blue-hydrogen-says-it-would-lock-in-fossil-fuel-dependence/
On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at
I found it very interesting when one person who was being interviewed
talked about an advance of FCEVs over BEVs was when refueling at night when
the sun is not and “when the wind is not blowing.” I’ve lived in 10
different states and visited all 50 states. It is clear that wind blows
both during
On 8/23/21 6:09 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:
Mark, I'd still like to read YOUR responses to the questions posted here,
especially to my own questions.
Ditto. Though I have posted no specific questions. But the primary
question seems to remain unanswered: "Why might a car buyer select
Mark, I'd still like to read YOUR responses to the questions posted here,
especially to my own questions.
That said, thanks for posting that video clip.
I wasn't too impressed with the production itself - all those annoying jump
cuts! I don't undertand why producers will put significant
Things like this are always in a fluff style, but for a group where *no one*
could identify *any* advantages of a fuel cell electric vehicle, it might be at
the right level. However, there *was* some meaty stuff in there, presented for
non-geeks to understand.
As far as not answering your
I listened but it was a lot of fluff and no opportunity to ask questions.
I asked you questions and you didn’t reply.
On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 7:40 PM Mark Abramowitz via EV
wrote:
> You may find this interesting, in answer to your question.
>
> https://youtu.be/dWAO3vUn7nw
>
> - Mark
>
> Sent
You may find this interesting, in answer to your question.
https://youtu.be/dWAO3vUn7nw
- Mark
Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
> On Aug 17, 2021, at 12:49 PM, Peter VanDerWal via EV
> wrote:
>
> What, exactly, do people see as the advantage(s) of a FCEV over a BEV?
>
> There are
>Message: 5
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2021 11:22:57 -0700
From: Mark Abramowitz
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] hydrogen isn't green, after all
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I guess no one sees *any* advantages? I wonder why? Is everyone using >th
On 19 Aug 2021 at 15:51, Ed Blackmond via EV wrote:
> Do *you* see *any* advantages?
I'd also like to know what prompted Mark to choose an FCEV over a BEV.
I'm also curious as to whether he'd make the same choice today. BEVs have
made significant advances in range and charging speed in just
Do *you* see *any* advantages? If so, what are they?
Ed
> On Aug 19, 2021, at 12:32 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV
> wrote:
>
> I guess no one sees *any* advantages? I wonder why? Is everyone using the
> same 20 year old information that some are using? Believing some of the
> myths? Are
Mark,
I've read your comments and if FCEVs are 7 years behind BEVs like you
printed, what is going to propel them past BEVs? In what sort of timeframe?
All the major automakers (even Toyota is acknowledging they may have made a
mistake) have announced they are going to BEVs. They are putting
On 19 Aug 2021 at 11:22, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote:
> ItTMs very odd that absolutely no one answered your question about
> advantages.
Well, as Packard used to say, "Ask the man who owns one."
As far as I know, which admittedly isn't all that far, you're the only
person on this list who
I've been trying to think of some advantages mark. But I've come up empty.
Help us out!
On Thu, Aug 19, 2021, 14:32 Mark Abramowitz via EV
wrote:
> I guess no one sees *any* advantages? I wonder why? Is everyone using the
> same 20 year old information that some are using? Believing some of the
I guess no one sees *any* advantages? I wonder why? Is everyone using the same
20 year old information that some are using? Believing some of the myths? Are
people afraid that if they list something they will be attacked or bullied by a
few who do that here?
It’s very odd that absolutely no
With all this discussion about hydrogen for fuel, there is a front page article
in the 19 August Los Angeles Times about using hydrogen as vehicle fuel. Even
here in southern California, it paints a fairly dismal picture - mostly because
of the almost total lack of fuel availability.
I am a
Mark Abramowitz,
I challenged you to share your yearly cost of energy for your household
including transportation...so far crickets. If it is dirty and more
expensive.why hydrogen? Your arguments so far are unconvincing.
$_ your answer here please. Lawrence Rhodes
Sent
ROTFL!!! The good ole dayz…
On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 4:08 AM EVDL Administrator via EV
wrote:
> On 18 Aug 2021 at 3:53, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:
>
> > He was down to 50 miles remaining and beginning to worry.
>
> Remember when EVs ran on a half ton of lead, and "50 miles remaining"
> meant
On 18 Aug 2021 at 3:53, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:
> He was down to 50 miles remaining and beginning to worry.
Remember when EVs ran on a half ton of lead, and "50 miles remaining" meant
you'd just finished charging?
David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
To reach me, don't reply to
> One of the advantages to an EV is that it takes me about 20 seconds to
> hook up the charger cord to the recharging port and walk away. I'm on
> 120v AC 12 amps. I come back in the morning or whenever and I have
> more range on my pack.
Related Story of being a new EV purchaser:
My son did a
On 17 Aug 2021 at 20:46, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote:
> But advantage over a BEV to *whom*? A consumer, a manufacturer, and a
> policymaker all will view an FCEV compared to a BEV very differently.
Again speaking strictly for myself, how about "all of the above"?
David Roden, EVDL moderator
On 17 Aug 2021 at 18:50, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote:
> Your question is a good one, though unclear.
Maybe I'm missing some nuance, but I thought it was reasonably clear. Peter
asked:
> What, exactly, do people see as the advantage(s) of a FCEV over a BEV?
The "exactly" gives it a somewhat
I understood that.
But advantage over a BEV to *whom*? A consumer, a manufacturer, and a
policymaker all will view an FCEV compared to a BEV very differently.
- Mark
Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
> On Aug 17, 2021, at 8:17 PM, Peter VanDerWal via EV wrote:
>
> I guess you missed
I guess you missed the first sentence.. . compared to a BEV?
My PGP public key: https://vanderwal.us/evdl_pgp.key
August 17, 2021 6:50 PM, "Mark Abramowitz via EV" wrote:
> Your question is a good one, though unclear.
>
> *Which* people? Are you asking about the advantage to a consumer? A
>
You may be a perfect example of someone that a BEV is a better solution.
- Mark
Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
> On Aug 17, 2021, at 3:27 PM, Peter Eckhoff via EV wrote:
>
> Hello David,
>
> One of the advantages to an EV is that it takes me about 20 seconds to
> hook up the charger
Your question is a good one, though unclear.
*Which* people? Are you asking about the advantage to a consumer? A
manufacturer? A policy maker?
Your “tons of disadvantages” can also be applied to BEVs or. At simply be not
accurate.
Higher cost to build? Well, yeah. But don’t BEVs cost more to
Hello David,
One of the advantages to an EV is that it takes me about 20 seconds to
hook up the charger cord to the recharging port and walk away. I'm on
120v AC 12 amps. I come back in the morning or whenever and I have
more range on my pack. Another 20 seconds of unplugging and I'm ready
to
What, exactly, do people see as the advantage(s) of a FCEV over a BEV?
There are tons of disadvantages, higher cost to build, higher cost to operate,
lower efficiency, no existing infrastructure, etc.; so what is the big
advantage that would make them worth while?
On 16 Aug 2021 at 14:03, Peter Eckhoff via EV wrote:
> The article used Bar instead of PSI. Engineers and Scientists may
> know that one Bar is 14.7 pounds per square inch at sea level but the general
> public understands PSI a whole lot better.
I guess it depends on who the intended audience
t; wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I’m not sure what you want numbers on, but a point can certainly be
> > made without them, and frequently, numbers can get in the way.
> > >>
> > >> - Mark
> > >>
> > >> Sent from my Fuel Cell powe
l powered iPhone
> >>
> >>>> On Aug 14, 2021, at 8:47 PM, Peri Hartman via EV
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Mark, if you wish to present a point, please at least provide numbers
> in your post and a more specific reference. We all have other things to do,
You just read what I wrote very selectively. I’m not an advocate here for
anybody. I mentioned Plug’s green hydrogen, so I disclosed it. I have stock in
Tesla - so what? What have you disclosed? What other interests do you have?
As far as how many cars have it, you nicely make the arguments I
The batteries catching fire is already a lower probability fault and it
will improve. Far lower than fires with gasoline.
I think these two safety issues, battery fires and H tanks blowing up are
non-problems that have effective tech fixes.Transporting energy to
individual cars is not much to
lt;< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Robert Bruninga via EV"
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
> Cc: "Robert Bruninga"
> Sent: 15-Aug-21 13:02:45
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] hydrogen i
MUCH better chance of a battery catching fire than a hydrogen tank exploding.
In fact, the latter is unlikely to happen. The former, it happens all the time.
- Mark
Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
> On Aug 15, 2021, at 1:03 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:
>
> But then there is still
Amen.
- Mark
Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
> On Aug 15, 2021, at 1:02 PM, Michael Ross via EV wrote:
>
> I think the future will be a combination of all sorts of means. We
> can't extraoplate any single energy source or means of distribution as THE
> ONE. It won't work that way.
? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>
>>
>> -- Original Message ------
>> From: "Mark Abramowitz"
>> To: "Peri Hartman" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
>>
>> Sent: 15-Aug-21 08:29:29
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] hydrogen
, and frequently, numbers can get in the way.
> >>
> >> - Mark
> >>
> >> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
> >>
> >>>> On Aug 14, 2021, at 8:47 PM, Peri Hartman via EV
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Mark, if
nt can certainly be
> > made without them, and frequently, numbers can get in the way.
> > >>
> > >> - Mark
> > >>
> > >> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
> > >>
> > >>>> On Aug 14, 2021, at 8:47 PM, Pe
ure what you want numbers on, but a point can certainly be
>> made without them, and frequently, numbers can get in the way.
>> >>
>> >> - Mark
>> >>
>> >> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
>> >>
>> >>>> On Aug
;Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
>
> Sent: 15-Aug-21 08:29:29
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] hydrogen isn't green, after all
>
>> I made several points. You weren’t clear what you didn’t believe.
>>
>> Let me know and I’ll do my best to address it.
>>
>> - Mark
;> - Mark
> >>
> >> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
> >>
> >>>> On Aug 14, 2021, at 8:47 PM, Peri Hartman via EV
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Mark, if you wish to present a point, please at least provide numbers
> in your post
gt;> Mark, if you wish to present a point, please at least provide numbers in
>>> your post and a more specific reference. We all have other things to do,
>>> beside repeat research you've already done.
>>> Peri
>>>
>>> << Annoyed by leaf
Hyzon Motors has begun shipping hydrogen fuel cell trucks to customers –
TechCrunch
https://www.google.com/amp/s/techcrunch.com/2021/08/11/hyzon-motors-has-begun-shipping-hydrogen-fuel-cell-trucks-to-customers/amp/
Interesting startup
Sent from AT Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Sunday, August 15,
<< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>
-- Original Message --
From: "Mark Abramowitz"
To: "Peri Hartman" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion
List"
Sent: 15-Aug-21 08:29:29
Subject: Re: [EVDL] hydrogen isn't green, after all
I m
lowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>
> >
> > -- Original Message --
> > From: "Mark Abramowitz"
> > To: "Peri Hartman" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
> >
> > Sent: 14-Aug-21 07:09:30
> > Subject: Re:
V"
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
Cc: "Mark Abramowitz"
Sent: 14-Aug-21 21:19:00
Subject: Re: [EVDL] hydrogen isn't green, after all
I’m not sure what you want numbers on, but a point can certainly be made
without them, and frequently, numbers can get in the wa
I'm not an expert, just a longtime EV follower, but I think that when it
comes to road vehicles, hydrogen had its chance and missed it.
In 2001, the limitation on EVs was, and always had been, the battery. In
1999, the GM EV1 had had a 26kWh NiMH battery, and the Nissan Altra EV had
had a 32
---
> From: "Mark Abramowitz"
> To: "Peri Hartman" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
>
> Sent: 14-Aug-21 07:09:30
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] hydrogen isn't green, after all
>
>> I think focus on that article was not “green” hydrogen, but “blue”
--
From: "Mark Abramowitz"
To: "Peri Hartman" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion
List"
Sent: 14-Aug-21 07:09:30
Subject: Re: [EVDL] hydrogen isn't green, after all
I think focus on that article was not “green” hydrogen, but “blue” hydrogen,
made from fossil wi
Ok, looking farther down the chart, we have total energy:
Plasma Tech - 8.7 kWh/kg
Compressed H2 - 1.8-6.5 kWh/kg
Liquid - 11.5 kWh/kg
Metal Hydride - 34.8 kWh/kg
- Mark
Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
> On Aug 14, 2021, at 10:54 AM, Mark Abramowitz wrote:
>
> Ok, I wasn’t going to
Ok, I wasn’t going to take the bait, but finally broke down.
Yes, this is all about storage, not production (though they claim to have a
magic production technology).
It sounded all quite interesting, and despite a few seemingly contradictions,
was fascinating, and peaked my interest.
But
I will disagree with the first line in your statement “ H2 is not nearly as
good for cars as batteries”, and repeat what I tell everyone - it depends. If a
BEV cannot do the job, and meet the duty cycle I need, it clearly isn’t better
than most anything.
When my wife needed a new car in 2015,
Wrong.
You think that fuel cell users go in to their dealer for an annual fuel cell
change?
Not the case.
We have two fuel cell cars here, and in about 11 “fuel cell years”, I had a
fuel cell stack problem once, and it was from a defect.
I’m curious - where did you get such totally wrong
wers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Mark Abramowitz"
> To: "Peri Hartman" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
>
> Sent: 13-Aug-21 00:11:06
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] hydrogen isn't green, after all
>
I absolutely *can* look at grid numbers for renewables for EV's and also tell
you that my hydrogen comes from renewables, if you want to look it that way.
My renewable % number comes from data for the *only* place that I can get it -
at the pump. I can’t buy it from hydrogen supplied to
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brEm4mEizns
This video did not mention KWs so they sort of didn't give a comparison in
numbers to batteries but essentially they are making solid state hydrogen
storage. I am a bit skeptical because of no apples to apples comparisons. The
source hydrogen could
The elephant in the room is that fuel cells very quickly "wear out" and
need to be replaced at great expense. They wear out more quickly than
the batteries they replace, which is ironic.
_If_ you can figure out how to make H2 economically (and with less
pollution per mile than electricity)
9:33 am
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Cc: Ed Blackmond
Subject: Re: [EVDL] hydrogen isn't green, after all
> On Aug 13, 2021, at 9:27 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
>
> At some point, we'll probably have enough large scale excess that it makes
> sense to prod
> On Aug 13, 2021, at 9:27 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
>
> At some point, we'll probably have enough large scale excess that it makes
> sense to produce hydrogen with that excess. But, I believe, the primary use
> for that hydrogen will be for backup grid power generation, not
>
On 8/13/21 3:00 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:
You’ve completely ignored what I said - did you even read it?
Yep, every word of it. Yes of course, hydrogen will have a role to play,
but there is no getting around the fact that using Renewables to make
electricity to drive cars is 10 times
itz"
Sent: 13-Aug-21 11:31:58
Subject: Re: [EVDL] hydrogen isn't green, after all
Well, H2 is not nearly as good for cars as batteries, but truly green
H2 (created through electrolysis) certainly can be very clean and could
likely be very useful in long range transport (ships, airplan
> You’ve completely ignored what I said - did you even read it?
Yep, every word of it. Yes of course, hydrogen will have a role to play,
but there is no getting around the fact that using Renewables to make
electricity to drive cars is 10 times more efficient to drive a BEV
directly (5% loss
1 - 100 of 107 matches
Mail list logo
