[Wikimediaau-l] NSW State Library

[Andrew Owens]

Hi all,

Just noticed an article about the NSW State Library that's either an
opportunity or a concern...

http://www.itnews.com.au/news/nsw-state-library-to-turn-3bn-collection-over-to-private-sector-417974

kindest regards
Andrew
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Member breakdown as at 30 April 2014

[Andrew Owens]

1 has been processed (and is counted in with 2013 above), two are still
being processed.

kindest regards
Andrew



On 1 May 2014 05:50, Steve Zhang  wrote:

> There have been a few new members...one joined last week. Andrew will have
> the numbers.
> On 1 May 2014 07:29, "John Mark Vandenberg"  wrote:
>
>> Has there been no new members in 2014 to date?
>>
>> --
>> John
>>
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[Wikimediaau-l] Member breakdown as at 30 April 2014

[Andrew Owens]

Hi all,

After reconciling all our various systems, and as promised, here is a
breakdown of the membership as it stands on 30 April 2014.

Total membership is 59, of whom 2 are overseas. Of the remaining 57:

* 15 (26.3%) are in NSW (11 in Sydney)
* 14 (24.6%) are in VIC (14 in Melbourne)
* 9 (15.8%) are in WA (8 in Perth)
* 7 (12.3%) are in QLD (6 in Brisbane)
* 4 (7.0%) are in TAS (3 in Hobart, 1 in Launceston)
* 4 (7.0%) are in ACT; and
* 4 are in SA.

No members were located in the Northern Territory as at 30 April.

Rural vs urban - 7 (12.3%) are located outside their state or territory's
largest city, 4 of whom are in NSW. This does not include those on the
urban fringes who may technically live in a semi-rural area.

Longevity of membership:

* 13 (22.0%) joined in 2008
* 3 (5.1%) joined in 2009
* 5 (8.5%) joined in 2010
* 14 (23.7%) joined in 2011
* 10 (16.9%) joined in 2012
* 13 (22.0%) joined in 2013.

This does not reflect former members, but simply the join dates of those
who are current members.

17 of the 59 present members (28.8%) have at one stage or another served on
the committee. In total 22 people have served on the committee since 2008.

I wanted to do one on meetup attendance but this information is not
available on the system.

kindest regards

Andrew Owens
Secretary
Wikimedia Australia
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Public meeting today deferred

[Andrew Owens]

One was notified twice over the week before and still attracted only two
non-committee attendees. It ends up being pretty useless as a member
engagement tool with that low a level of participation - it was conceived
years ago as a trial that seems to not have been subject to the usual
review process that most trials are.

kindest regards
Andrew


On 17 April 2014 14:16, K. Peachey  wrote:

> Well randomly cancelling them out of thin air and sending reminders a hour
> or two before does tend to cause that.
>
> Amongst the other issues of course
>
>
> On 17 April 2014 14:34, Steve Zhang  wrote:
>
>> Hi Brian,
>>
>> We would have someone noting what happens on the hang out in IRC and vice
>> versa. The WMF does the same for their monthly metrics meetings with a lot
>> of success, it's worth a shot at least - recent public meetings have been
>> essentially dead.
>>  On 17 Apr 2014 12:38, "Brian Salter-Duke"  wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 10:09:34AM +1000, Steve Zhang wrote:
>>> > Hi John,
>>>
>>> > We're going to do a public meeting on the first Sunday of May (the
>>> 4th) at
>>> > 4pm AEDST but we're going to experiment with Google Hangouts on Air as
>>> well
>>> > as IRC, as opposed to just IRC, and see if this improves engagement.
>>>
>>> Please. please do'nt. It will be chaos. How do people who are not on
>>> both know what is going on with the one they do not have? Or are we
>>> expected to be on both?
>>>
>>> Brian.
>>>
>>> > Steve
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On 14 April 2014 16:57, John Mark Vandenberg  wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Steve Zhang 
>>> wrote:
>>> > > > Hi all,
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Just a brief note, we will be deferring the public meeting that is
>>> > > normally
>>> > > > today to another time.
>>> > >
>>> > > Any update on when the next public meeting will be?
>>> > >
>>> > > --
>>> > > John Vandenberg
>>> > >
>>> > > ___
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>>> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
>>> > >
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Brian Salter-Duke bd...@wikimedia.org.au
>>> Active on English Wikipedia, Meta-Wiki, Wikiversity, and others.
>>>  [[User:Bduke]] is single user account with en:Wikipedia main account.
>>>
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Apparently corrupt administration of this list

[Andrew Owens]

I'm agreeing on the drama stakes. It's interesting that it is happening
just as things are starting to happen for the chapter through a range of
fronts. I guess with progress there is always resistance.

And I firmly agree that people that don't know how to behave on a mailing
list should be booted off. This is not anyone's personal plaything, this is
actually meant to be a productive way of people to work together within the
Australian community and with the chapter. If people have nothing better to
do with their time than throw around personal allegations, legal threats
and false claims, they should find somewhere else, and that's the message
we're getting from the Australian community.

I also concur with most of Brian's post and David's contributions.

kindest regards
Andrew


On 17 March 2014 07:42, Chris Watkins  wrote:

> Has anyone in Australia ever been sued for calling someone else something
> hurtful? If this is possible, imagine how much money politicians & celebs
> could make.
>
> Terms like twit are really best avoided, but that's not for legal reasons,
> AFAIK.
>
> I found this thread by accident - I filter this list from my inbox, & I'm
> happier for that.
>
>
> On 17 March 2014 03:26,  wrote:
>
>> Warning, Russavia: you are coming perilously close to being sued. Keep
>> repeating your behaviour and I'll have no choice to be file a case. If the
>> list administrators are prepared to accuse me without basis of making
>> personal attacks while letting other members personally attack me, they
>> will probably be involved in the litigation too
>>
>> Tony
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From:
>> "Wikimedia Australia Chapter" 
>>
>> To:
>> "Wikimedia Australia Chapter" 
>> Cc:
>>
>> Sent:
>> Mon, 17 Mar 2014 00:17:01 +0800
>>
>> Subject:
>> Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Apparently corrupt administration of this list
>>
>>
>> Tony,
>>
>> I have a very low tolerance for bullshit, and I will call people out on
>> it whenever I see it.
>>
>> Seriously, if you feel belittled and hurt by me calling you an a-grade
>> twit, then might I suggest you stop acting like, well, an a-grade twit. If
>> you can't do that, then I have nothing more to say to you but toughen up
>> princess!
>>
>> Oh Tony, by the way, the case you mentioned involved a student who posted
>> comments on facebook about a music teacher at Orange High School, accusing
>> her of being responsible for her father leaving the school -- his father
>> used to be the music teacher.
>>
>> There is a vast difference between me expressing my personal opinion of
>> you being a twit, and the student essentially accusing the high school
>> teacher ofwould corruption fit the accusations? Isn't corruption
>> exactly the same thing that you have accused others of on numerous
>> occasions, including in the subject of your initial email. Wouldn't this
>> open you up to legal action?
>>
>> So Tony, take your threats of legal action and shove em where the sun
>> don't shine.
>>
>> You really are your worst enemy!
>>
>> Scotty
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 11:34 PM,  wrote:
>>
>>> Dear subscribers
>>>
>>> I reply to comments in this thread:
>>>
>>> To Scott Bibby (Russavia): Thank you for your in-principle support;
>>> your argument was compelling and well expressed. However, I find the
>>> personal attack in public belittling and hurtful. Please note the recent
>>> Australian court judgement in which a schoolboy was ordered to pay his
>>> former school teacher $110,000 in damages for what he said about her on the
>>> internet. Calling me an "a-grade twit" on a public list exposes you to the
>>> risk of legal action.
>>>
>>> It's interesting that Steven Zhang, as an administrator of the mailing
>>> list, chose to let this attack pass without mention, while at the same time
>>> accusing me of having "engaged in repeated personal attacks on a number
>>> of individuals". No evidence of personal attacks by me has been
>>> provided. I am careful not to insult or belittle anyone in public.
>>> Accusing the committee of neglect or wrongdoing in their official capacity
>>> is quite a different matter--if we try to censor criticism of legal
>>> propriety and governance, we're better off in Putin's Russia, and we
>>> certainly don't deserve to use the

Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Apparently corrupt administration of this list

[Andrew Owens]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Mailing_lists

"Please respect
Wikiquette<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Etiquette>and avoid
personal attacks<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks>on
the mailing lists, especially in the subject header as this is likely
to
be repeated by those replying."

It's in black and white.

kindest regards
Andrew




On 16 March 2014 17:18, K. Peachey  wrote:

> On 16 March 2014 17:50, Steven Zhang wrote:
>>
>>
>> 2. ... but actively disrupting the list is against both the rules and
>> spirit of the list, and always has been. ...
>>
>
> [Citation Needed], I see no rules
> http://www.wikimedia.org.au//wiki/Mailing_list or
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l.
>
> And what and which foundation staff members where involved in this?
>
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Creation of Noongar (Aboriginal) Wikipedia

[Andrew Owens]

Also I think something that, given the structure of their society and
culture, they should be driving rather than us. I'd be open to helping
Aboriginal groups who approached us for technical or other assistance. But
we must always remember it's their culture and we're outsiders. At this
stage I think it's best to leave it to the contact Gnangarra had with them
and see where that goes.

kindest regards
Andrew


On 8 March 2014 19:24, Craig Franklin  wrote:

> For what it's worth, this is something I thought about a lot during my
> time involved with WMAU.
>
> I don't think an Indigenous language Wikipedia is going to be viable in
> the short term.  Collard cites Maori and Welsh as examples of situations
> where a language has been successfully "revived", and both languages have
> reasonably active Wikipediae.  But both, even during their darkest days,
> had tens of thousands of fluent speakers keeping things alive.  Noongar,
> according to the press release, has less than 300.  There are simply not
> the numbers of fluent speakers available to form a cohesive and active
> Wikipedia community for the sustained period of time that would be needed
> to produce something useful.
>
> Not that I don't think producing an encyclopaedia in the Noongar language
> is anything but a laudable and worthy idea, but I don't think that the
> Wikipedia model is one that is likely to bear fruit in this particular
> circumstance.  On a more practical note, to create a new language edition
> of Wikipedia there are quite a few hoops to jump through, including the
> requirement to build a test edition on the Incubator with a viable
> community, which is quite a high hurdle to jump over.
>
> Cheers,
> Craig
>
> Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2014 11:19:50 +1100
>> From: Charles Gregory 
>> To: Wikimedia Australia Chapter 
>> Subject: [Wikimediaau-l] Creation of Noongar (Aboriginal) Wikipedia
>> Message-ID:
>> > jr8bwsjdkxodjtok4mw4zudv...@mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.news.uwa.edu.au/201402116439/arts-and-culture/new-media-throw-lifeline-ancient-language
>>
>> Has anyone seen this?  Does it refer to a new website or a language
>> version
>> of Wikipedia?  (Wikipedia doesn't appear to be mentioned in the article
>> but
>> I found it from this tweet -
>> https://twitter.com/IndigenousTweet/status/433230348801961985 )
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Charles
>> -- next part --
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: <
>> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaau-l/attachments/20140308/9647bbd8/attachment-0001.html
>> >
>>
>>
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Creation of Noongar (Aboriginal) Wikipedia

[Andrew Owens]

that's a very valid point. I heard something a while ago about an
initiative between India and South Africa supported by WMF which was
collecting oral information from elders in those places in such a way that
it could be used as a verifiable source on Wikipedia on topics not readily
covered by regular secondary sources.

kindest regards
Andrew


On 8 March 2014 19:52, Janet Reid  wrote:

> On 8 March 2014 21:54, Craig Franklin  wrote:
>
>> For what it's worth, this is something I thought about a lot during my
>> time involved with WMAU.
>>
>> I don't think an Indigenous language Wikipedia is going to be viable in
>> the short term.
>>
>
> It would be nice for there to be a way to recognise Aboriginal
> perspectives.
> Citing is likely to be a challenge.
>
> Once I showed some community women in Maree the page for Maree
> It said her language was extinct. She said it was not.
> I posted to the talk page that local people did still speak the language.
> But the source was a living person whereas the extinction was citing a
> published book.
>
> Is there a different kind of wiki project which could accommodate that
> kind of perspective/source.
> Is it possible to make articles which are relevant in their relevant
> languages?
> Not make a full wikipedia but capture descriptions of communities and
> places in the relevant language?
>
> just a thought
>
> j
>
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Public meeting today 4PM AEDST (in one hour)

[Andrew Owens]

Agreed - any of the public meetings I've attended have been a waste of
time. The few I've attended have had to be kept going on life support, and
very few lay members turn up to them. It's not in my view working as a form
of engagement, and I don't think when they were instituted it would have
been expected they would continue indefinitely without review. If anyone
has any ideas to improve member engagement with the chapter, we're open to
them.

kindest regards
Andrew


On 2 March 2014 15:29, Gnangarra  wrote:

> we'll able to compete against football as well from next month should be
> fun... we do need to find a better format for talking with members these
> chats arent getting members involved at all. Was only one member active
> today we had already answered most of the questions via email directly
> already.
>
> If the members want these meeting they need to participate in them, we are
> always open to trying alternative formats, times and forums anything that
> will help the member become more involved
>
>
> On 2 March 2014 15:07, Mark Hurd  wrote:
>
>>  You do like to compete against motor racing, don't you :-(
>>  --
>> From: Steve Zhang 
>> Sent: 2/03/2014 2:32 PM
>>
>> To: Wikimedia Australia Chapter 
>> Subject: [Wikimediaau-l] Public meeting today 4PM AEDST (in one hour)
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
> --
> GN.
> Vice President Wikimedia Australia
> WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
>
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Minutes of committee meetings and other queries

[Andrew Owens]

Dear Tony,

On 1 October 2013, you resigned your membership per Rule 6(1) of the
Association in writing, via a post to the chapter's lists. It is also on
record that this resignation was accepted at the time. As such, you are not
a member under the chapter's rules.

As a consequence, the committee will not be responding to your
correspondence dated 25 January 2014, and notes only that it contains
several misunderstandings and errors of fact, some of which can be easily
corrected with material already on the record, including reports submitted
to the last AGM and the full text of the Associations Incorporation Reform
Act 2012.

Regards

Andrew Owens
Secretary
Wikimedia Australia


On 25 January 2014 13:17, Tony Souter  wrote:

> Dear members
>
> Since under the chapter's rules I'm still a member of WMAU until 30
> June—at which time no membership will be revewable for anyone under the
> rules, I'm sorry to say—may I ask whether the minutes of today's
> "committee" meeting will be posted promptly, unlike last time?
>
> Looking at the minutes of the most recent meeting (by the way, pretty
> short on links for members to navigate to referents), I see 12 red "ACTION"
> statements; only one of them is followed by a note that the action was
> taken:
>
> ACTION: Steven to advise Adam.
> (*Update: Actioned 25 November - committee members CC'd on email.*)
> Although it doesn't say whether the action succeeded in terms of the
> resolution.
>
>
> A sample of the other 11 is below, together with a few other queries.
>
> __
>
> *ACTION: All to update COI register.
>
> Nope:
>
>
> http://www.wikimedia.org.au/w/index.php?title=Conflict_of_interest_policy&action=history
>
> __
>
> *Update of records with CAV and the ACNC
>
>- Steven advised that everyone had sent through the necessary details.
>Email issues have hampered the ACNC matter; Steven is sending Andrew the
>form via express post.
>- The rule changes have not been sent to CAV from the SGM. If it goes
>beyond 26 November, the lodgment fee increases from $75.20 to $160.50.
>- ACTION: Steven to email Andrew the form; Andrew to file it with CAV
>on Tuesday.
>
>
> Even if the rule changes were sent to CAV by 26 November, saving the
> chapter half the fee, it ignores the fact that the law (not the rules, the
> law) was breached by not communicating the change within a month of the SGM
> that approved the changes. I believe there's a fine for that breach, but
> would need to check the Act to confirm this.
>
> __
>
> *A7 Past resolutions
>
>- ACTION: Andrew to sort out past resolutions for posting to the
>public wiki.
>
>
> This cake looks worryingly half-baked:
>
> "(add 2013-14, note out of date (will fill this in over coming week)"
>
> http://www.wikimedia.org.au/w/index.php?title=Resolutions&action=history
>
>
> __
>
> **C4 Linkage project *
>
> "there are questions as to its fit with our Statement of Purpose"—I don't
> see an argument anywhere supporting this claim. Like the CAV's answers to
> questions by one committee member about compliance, the answers depend on
> how those questions are framed. Presumably the previous committee thought
> the project fit with the SoP.
>
> "The current spending is authorised by a resolution of the previous
> committee, but we have the option to rescind this." But one of the problems
> in squibbing on this funding is that the chapter signed a *contract* with
> the other parties. Why sign a binding contract if you're going to flush it
> down the pan in the hope you won't be sued, even if suing is unlikely? It's
> a pretty bad smell for the chapter's reputation at the very least.
> Who (including the WMF) would sign a contract with WMAU after that?
> This sits oddly with a generally loose approach to spending, without clear
> signs of improving the performance of the chapter:
>
> I see proposals to move from a free email system to one that costs $50 a
> year per person ($50? really?), and that the discourse on the site is so
> sensitive that a much more expensive non-shared option is being considered.
> Since the site remains a ghost town, I can't see the purpose in bumping up
> expenditure on it by one cent.
>
> Even snail-mail looks like incurring more costs (redirect fee, etc). May I
> ask why a mail box is used in the first place? If someone has to have the
> key to it, why not mail to their home to save costs and expedite
> communication? It's very unsuitable in a huge continent to assign one
> location for a paid mailbox

Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Toodyay

[Andrew Owens]

do they have a WA volunteers group we could interface with?


On 10 January 2014 07:47, Janet Reid  wrote:

> I sent this to Kim Hawtin and he suggested tying this in with
> openstreetmap
>
> On 10 January 2014 01:14, Gnangarra  wrote:
>
>> Hi Everybody
>>
>> We've had some more success over in Western Australia with work
>> commencing on our second WikiTown of Toodyay.
>>
>> New editors are currently working on article creation focusing initially
>> on the heritage buildings on Stirling Terrace in Toodyay. Watch list
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_heritage_places_in_the_Shire_of_Toodyayas
>>  they have been taught to create the page link for new articles there,
>> feel free to do some if you want.
>>
>> The big new is the Toodyay has two Museums one in the Old Newcastle 
>> Gaoland the other in Connor's
>> Mill  exhibits at both of
>> these sites are about to be QR coded making these the first museums in
>> Australia to full utilize QR codes linking to Wikipedia articles.
>>
>> If you'd like to create a WikiTown near you please email me I'm more than
>> happy to help  more of these projects get off the ground.
>>
>>
>>
>> Gideon
>> Vice President WMAU
>>
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Public meeting today?

[Andrew Owens]

Hi,

It was actually mentioned at the end of the last public meeting on 1
December that the next one would be on the 12th (I can see it in the log) -
however anyone who wasn't there at that time wouldn't have seen it. I would
usually have sent out a notice yesterday and a reminder closer to the time,
but I had a tooth out (molar :/ ) yesterday morning and it had been giving
me much woe for the previous few weeks, plus the usual Christmas business
etc.

Meeting will be held at the usual time (4pm AEDST / 3pm AEST / 3:30pm ACDST
/ 1pm AWST). I'll put out a proper notice during the week.

kindest regards
Andrew


On 5 January 2014 15:31, Steven Zhang  wrote:

> Yeah, I know. It was discussed in our previous committee meeting, but the
> message didn't get out in time (I believe the Secretary has been unwell).
>
> Sorry for the late notice.
>
> Steven Zhang
>
> On 5 Jan 2014, at 6:29 pm, K. Peachey  wrote:
>
> On 5 January 2014 17:09, Steven Zhang  wrote:
>
>> Hi John,
>>
>> I'm afraid it wasn't, no. It will be next Sunday at 4PM AEDST (the usual
>> time, just a week later.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
> Small question, How do you class something as moved, If no one knew about
> it?
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] each state?

[Andrew Owens]

Thanks for that :)


On 4 December 2013 21:49, Liam Wyatt  wrote:

> I don't have the email addresses of the participants, that lies with
> another department of the national library. However, at gnangarra's
> suggestion earlier today I have asked for a message to be forwarded to
> Sablecrossing (who didn't put in her email to her user
> preferences) inviting her to the next Perth meetup (which is conveniently
> held at the SLWA).
> Best I can do :-)
> -Liam
>
>
> On Thursday, December 5, 2013, Andrew Owens wrote:
>
>> Hi Liam,
>>
>> Would it be possible to link up Sablecrossing with the WA Wikimedians so
>> they have a local contact point / volunteer assistance if necessary?
>>
>> kindest regards
>> Andrew
>>
>>
>> On 3 December 2013 09:16, Liam Wyatt  wrote:
>>
>>> Sats, I'm not sure why you're so cynical about this, but there indeed
>>> were people from each state and territory. I never said that the Eastern
>>> mainland states were the centre of the universe.
>>>
>>> You can see from the project page where they came from because they
>>> wrote newspaper articles from publications in their own state.
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:GLAM/State_Library_of_New_South_Wales/NSLA_Training_November_2013#Trainees
>>>
>>> So, user:newspapertas is from tassie, user:sablecrossing is from WA. The
>>> other areas you've not mentioned are user:rubyandlilysmum and
>>> user:nikki_7619 from S.A. and user:cyclone_sunday from the N.T. You can
>>> also see the new newspapers for NSW, VIC,  ACT, QLD with their respective
>>> trainees.
>>>
>>> -Liam
>>>
>>>
>>> wittylama.com
>>> Peace, love & metadata
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3 December 2013 11:53, SatuSuro  wrote:
>>>
>>>>  Liam
>>>>
>>>> ''there are a couple of trained Wikipedia editors among the staff of
>>>> each
>>>> state/territory library now,''
>>>>
>>>> you sure about that, it would be usefull to know if that is verifiable
>>>> (do you have a citation with that?)
>>>>
>>>> NSW, VIC,  ACT, QLD may indeed be the centre of the universe,
>>>> its just havent heard who they are in WA or TAS for instance
>>>>
>>>> would be useful to know who how why what etc
>>>>
>>>> sats from wa
>>>>
>>>> ___
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>>>> Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ___
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>>>
>>>
>>
>
> --
> wittylama.com
> Peace, love & metadata
>
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] each state?

[Andrew Owens]

Hi Liam,

Would it be possible to link up Sablecrossing with the WA Wikimedians so
they have a local contact point / volunteer assistance if necessary?

kindest regards
Andrew


On 3 December 2013 09:16, Liam Wyatt  wrote:

> Sats, I'm not sure why you're so cynical about this, but there indeed were
> people from each state and territory. I never said that the Eastern
> mainland states were the centre of the universe.
>
> You can see from the project page where they came from because they wrote
> newspaper articles from publications in their own state.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:GLAM/State_Library_of_New_South_Wales/NSLA_Training_November_2013#Trainees
>
> So, user:newspapertas is from tassie, user:sablecrossing is from WA. The
> other areas you've not mentioned are user:rubyandlilysmum and
> user:nikki_7619 from S.A. and user:cyclone_sunday from the N.T. You can
> also see the new newspapers for NSW, VIC,  ACT, QLD with their respective
> trainees.
>
> -Liam
>
>
> wittylama.com
> Peace, love & metadata
>
>
> On 3 December 2013 11:53, SatuSuro  wrote:
>
>> Liam
>>
>> ''there are a couple of trained Wikipedia editors among the staff of each
>> state/territory library now,''
>>
>> you sure about that, it would be usefull to know if that is verifiable
>> (do you have a citation with that?)
>>
>> NSW, VIC,  ACT, QLD may indeed be the centre of the universe,
>> its just havent heard who they are in WA or TAS for instance
>>
>> would be useful to know who how why what etc
>>
>> sats from wa
>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
>>
>>
>
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[Wikimediaau-l] Wikimedia Australia public meeting on Sunday at 4PM AEDST

[Andrew Owens]

Hi all,

Just to notify all that there will be a public meeting in the
#wikimedia-au IRC channel on the freenode network this coming Sunday 1
December at 4PM AEDST (1pm in WA, 3pm in QLD, 3:30pm in SA).

A reminder will be sent on the day. I'd welcome suggestions on when
the notices and reminders should be sent out / what works best for
people, seeing as there'll be at least 10 more of these during the
term :)

kindest regards

Andrew Owens
Secretary
Wikimedia Australia

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[Wikimediaau-l] AGM results

[Andrew Owens]

Dear members and community,

Firstly, thank you for the opportunity to serve again after a two-year
absence from the committee. I hope that I will be able to fulfil your
expectations :)

Congratulations to Steven Zhang, who has been elected president of
Wikimedia Australia for the 2013-14 term and to other members, all of
whom were returned unopposed, and listed below:

* Gideon Digby - Vice President
* Andrew Owens - Secretary
* Michael Billington - Ordinary Member
* Charles Gregory - Ordinary Member
* Pru Mitchell - Ordinary Member
* Robert Myers - Ordinary Member

The new committee will need to fill the role of Treasurer - no-one
stepped forward at the AGM, so a vacancy was declared.

Watch this space - we will be looking for ideas and opportunities to
move forward.

kindest regards

Andrew Owens
Secretary
Wikimedia Australia

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[Wikimediaau-l] Interesting story in today's press

[Andrew Owens]

http://www.news.com.au/technology/online/why-creating-memes-is-illegal-in-australia/story-fnjwmwrh-1226758121774

The Australian Digital Alliance is pushing for a fair use amendment to
the Copyright Act. Is there anything WMAu and its supporters can do to
get on board with it?

kindest regards
Andrew

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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Warning: Visual Editor - turn it on and it seems you can't turn it off!

[Andrew Owens]

Tried it - immediately realised it would be useless to me as it doesn't
recognise infoboxes. I found that in Firefox and IE the Gadgets "turn off"
option is not there, but in Chrome and Maxthon 3 it appears.


On 3 July 2013 14:28, David Gerard  wrote:

> On 3 July 2013 06:46, K. Peachey  wrote:
>
> > Can you file a bug about this bugzilla please? Where people that can
> > actually work on it will see it?
>
>
> IE 10 is already a bug in the queue, once functionality is fully in
> order on browsers that aren't a complete time-and-effort pit to
> support:
>
> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=50085
>
> The current round is intended to give the thing a really, really good
> kicking and the devs are furiously fixing bugs on a daily and
> more-than-daily basis; this is not the final product.
>
> If you have specific and reportable problems, and you want them fixed,
> you should comment at:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback
>
>
> - d.
>
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] [wmau:members] Re: Wikimedia Australia public meeting

[Andrew Owens]

Yeah I've always been mystified as to the short notice time - it's always
been the way since these meetings were started early last year. I've missed
I think all but one because I've usually found out after the fact, as it's
missed my morning email scan. (And that's even on AEDT-3.) 3 days (Thursday
before the meeting) and a reminder on Sat evening should be sufficient.

kindest regards
Andrew

On 5 March 2013 07:31, Tony Souter  wrote:

> I'm flexible, but 20:00 AEST sounds good.
>
> Could I suggest a note to memebers about five to seven days beforehand,
> perhaps specifying a kick-off issue/agenda item or two, and that the
> meeting might be limited to 60 mins or less? If the maximum duration is
> long, or the end-time is open-ended, the drop-in drop-out casualness of it
> all detracts from the cohesiveness of the gathering.
>
> T
>
>
> On 04/03/2013, at 9:11 PM, Craig Franklin wrote:
>
> Firstly, apologies on the somewhat late notice - would members prefer it
> if we dropped a notice in a couple of days beforehand?  Remembering that
> the meeting is *always* on the first Sunday of the month?
>
> Secondly, Gnangarra raises a good point that we should move the time
> around a bit every now and then for the benefit of those for whom the
> normal time is not convenient.  As daylight savings ends at the beginning
> of April (I think), would anyone object to holding the April meeting at 8pm
> AEST (6pm WA time)?  Or is there another time that would be even better for
> the other WA folk?
>
> Cheers,
> Craig
>
> On 3 March 2013 23:02, Gnangarra  wrote:
>
>> WA 2pm on a sunday afternoon in the middle of a long weekend, not really
>> practical. Hopefully once Vic, NSW SA and TAS go off daylight saving the
>> committee will hold one of these at say 6pm wst, 8pm est.
>>
>> On 3 March 2013 20:52, Chris Watkins wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On 3 March 2013 14:46, Tony Souter  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Could there be more notice? And an agenda topic or two might attract
>>>> more members into participating. Items don't have to be billed as occupying
>>>> the meeting exclusively.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Agreed - I appreciate the work done by the organizers, but I reckon more
>>> notice and topics would get more of us to join in.
>>>
>>> I have the meetings as a recurring event in my calendar, but something
>>> always distracts me... if I knew what was going to be discussed, I'm sure
>>> I'd be more likely to remember to actually log on.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Chris Watkins
>>>
>>> Appropedia.org - Sharing knowledge to build rich, sustainable lives.
>>>
>>> ___
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>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> GN.
>> Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
>> Gn. Blogg: http://gnangarra.wordpress.com
>
>
>
> *___*
> *Tony Souter*
> **Fixed-line phone: +612 42633401
> *Mobile: 0450 717627 (+61450 717627), but usually not  switched on
> *Skype: tonysouter
> *Street address: 1/29 Tarrant Ave, Kiama Downs 2533, Australia*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] [wmau:members] Wikimedians to the Games: An opportunity to attend the Paralympics and cover them for WP & Wikinews

[Andrew Owens]

In the interests of keeping the discussion in one place, there's a
discussion taking place about this, and in particular questioning some of
the assumptions in the conditions, at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Australian_Wikipedians%27_notice_board#Wikimedians_to_the_Games-
I think it's very important that we not *dis*courage people from
contributing by setting up the Commons contributors against the Wikipedians
(or vice versa), or telling people that if they can't contribute the exact
way the chapter demands that their contribution is worthless.

kindest regards
Andrew

On 2 January 2012 09:23, Laura Hale  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> *Wikimedians to the Games (W2G)* is a an opportunity for two Australian
> Wikimedians to go to London and cover the 2012 Summer 
> Paralympics<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Summer_Paralympics> held
> in London for Wikinews 
> <http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/>,Commons<http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/>
>  and Wikipedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/>. W2G is played and won by
> skill of editing. The purpose W2G is to encourage content improvement
> related to the history of the Paralympic Movement in Australia and make
> editing on Wikipedia fun.
>
> Wikimedians to the Games *begins on 10 January 2012* and is structured as
> a two round tournament. The plan for the tournament is as follows:
> 10 January 2012 to 20 April 2012We start with one group of all
> participants, with the top 4 from that group progressing to the second
> round. These four will be given press passes to cover the 2012 Paralympic
> Games. Points reset to zero at the round. 22 April 2012 to 30 June 20124
> participants left – the top two will earn paid transportation and
> accommodation to cover the Paralympic Games in person.
>
> For the full rules clarifying for what points can be awarded and other
> rules, see 
> HOPAU/W2G/Rules<http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/HOPAU/W2G/Rules>.
> However, the spirit of the rules are more important than the letter, and
> the judges reserve the right to deny points to anyone deemed to be abusing
> the system, as well as remove persistently problematic users from the
> competition. The judges for W2G include Laura 
> Hale<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:LauraHale>
>  and John Vandenberg‎ <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:John_Vandenberg>.
> They will be assisted by other judges including 
> Sp33dyphil<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Sp33dyphil>.
> They can be reached by their talk pages, the W2G talk page, by email or in
> the Wikimedia Australia IRC channel, #wikimedia-au 
> connect<http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#wikimedia-au>.
> Also, check this page and its sub pages to see if your question was already
> answered.
>
> If you believe one of the contestants is abusing the spirit of the rules,
> intentionally submitting subpar articles with the aim of getting more W2G
> points, or anything similar, please contact one of the judges by email.
> They will look into the matter and take action if necessary.
> You can sign up at any time between 10 January and 20 April 2012 by
> following the directions on 
> HOPAU/W2G/Participants<http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/HOPAU/W2G/Participants>
> .
>
>  Full project details are available at
> http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/HOPAU/W2G .  If you can't participate,
> we'd still appreciate if you could pass the word along to others who might
> know people who are interested. :)  Thanks!
>
> Sincerely,
> Laura Hale
>
> --
> mobile: 0412183663
> twitter: purplepopple
> blog: ozziesport.com
>
>
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Wikipedi Day: January 15

[Andrew Owens]

Last year's was dependent on international support (t-shirts, giveaways
etc) - is that going to be made available for this one, or was that a
one-off for W10?

If so, it probably wouldn't be difficult to organise another one in Perth.
However if there's no giveaways, turnout will be low.

kindest regards
Andrew

On 8 December 2011 09:31, Laura Hale  wrote:

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Day
>
> Is anyone planning anything for this?  I'm debating going to the Ada
> conference, so I'm not sure about organising something in Canberra.
> (Though schedule so full, not sure I can do Ada.  Thus, doing something in
> Canberra would be good but right on the back of RecentChangesCamp seems
> less than ideal.)  Also not sure how this times with the chapter committee
> meeting.
>
> Perth?  Melbourne? Brisbane?  Sydney?  Adelaide?  Anyone want to organise
> local meet ups?
>
> --
> mobile: 0412183663
> twitter: purplepopple
> blog: ozziesport.com
>
>
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>
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[Wikimediaau-l] Use of geonotices for events

[Andrew Owens]

Hi,

I received a complaint today from someone who received a geonotice
regarding the Perth events. Aside from the fact that the geonotice contains
a glaring error, it's raising questions about privacy on Wikipedia. The
last thing we need people to think is that we're some sort of Big Brother
establishment spying on people. As the person raising the issue with me
stated, "I have a login for privacy. How the hell does it know that I'm in
Australia/Perth??"

Could some consideration be given to appropriateness and consultation when
putting these things at the top of every person's watchlist in a given
region? For example, I'm genuinely surprised that the WikiProject Western
Australia talk page was not consulted before placing a notice to all
Western Australian users. As the person running the Joondalup event I knew
nothing about this - I'm quite capable of doing publicity for that event
myself, and I'm concerned that people think that I am behind this!!

While this particular issue affects WA and so the people here are noticing
it, I have been aware for some time of the tendency within WMAu (and
opposed it when I saw it) to just jump straight to geonotice for any and
every event - apart from decreasing the effectiveness if one trains people
to ignore it, it could also have strategic negatives, considering we are
looking to support the Wikimedia Foundation's strategic plan and need to
convince new people that we're not evil, basically. A rethink on promotion
is needed.

kindest regards
Andrew Owens
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[Wikimediaau-l] Fwd: [wmau:members] Wiki Takes Freo and Joondalup

[Andrew Owens]

As neither are chapter events, forwarding to the general list so that more
people are aware of them and can participate if they wish.

If anyone has any questions, please contact Sam with relation to Fremantle,
or myself with relation to Joondalup. The Joondalup page will be finalised
by early tomorrow morning.

kindest regards
Andrew

-- Forwarded message --
From: Sam Wilson 
Date: 12 November 2011 17:37
Subject: [wmau:members] Wiki Takes Freo and Joondalup
To: memb...@wikimedia.org.au


Hi everyone,

Just thought I'd mention a couple of photo scav hunts coming up in WA:
Fremantle (next Saturday), and Joondalup (the week after).  There are
notices on 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Wikipedia:Meetup/Perth<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/Perth>

Thanks,
Sam.
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] [wmau:members] Wiki Takes Freo and Joondalup

[Andrew Owens]

Hi Sam (and all)

Awesome work regarding getting it into the Fremantle Festival! :) The first
one in September was great fun - I enjoyed being part of the organising
team for the event, and my dad enjoyed being one of its participants. I
wish the Fremantle guys well for next week, and I'll try to be there.

Just so people know, the Wiki Takes Joondalup came out of an opportunity to
work with the Local History Library at the City of Joondalup. To date I've
been running this one as a solo effort, and I'm grateful for their
participation and assistance, including provision of a venue - I had a
meeting with some of their people Friday before last to secure their
support. For those who don't know the Joondalup area, it's a regional
centre in Perth's outer northern suburbs - a place where we have and have
always had very few Wikimedians - and the relative "newness" of the area,
combined with the low commercial/residential density, make it difficult to
photograph. I intend to finish working on the pages later today to bring
them up to date with discussions I've had with them.

One of the interesting opportunities arising from it is the possible
collaboration with Picture
Joondalup<http://www.joondalup.wa.gov.au/Explore/Libraries/LocalHistory/picturejoondalup.aspx>,
a CC (restricted :( ) licenced collection of photos - mostly historical -
that they've been building themselves. As they're pretty keen on
maintaining the licencing it already has, I'm not sure where to move with
this one, but would be keen on ideas.

kindest regards
Andrew

On 13 November 2011 08:31, Sam Wilson  wrote:

> On 13/11/11 7:40 AM, Laura Hale wrote:
>
>>
>> Can't set it up but did request it at
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Wikipedia:Geonotice#Requests<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Geonotice#Requests>.
>>   It is very,
>> very last minute. :(  No guarantees that some one will see it and post
>> it but the effort was made.
>>
> >
>
> Thanks!  There's notices all over the place in Freo, too, and it's in the
> Festival programme.
>
>
>
>> If you want to write a summary of the previous one in there, that would
>> be good too. :)  If you can figure out how to do a gallery of pics from
>> the previous meetup, that would be awesome too. :) The GLAM newsletter
>> is read by the WMF and other GLAM organisations. I've started using it
>> in the past two months or so as a quasi way of promoting chapter
>> activities and what Australians are up to.  It doesn't have readership
>> as large as the signpost, but the readership it does have is important.
>>
>>
> Writing something now.
>
> Andrew, you've said that the first Wiki Takes Freo was the first photo
> scav hunt in Australia; this *is* correct, isn't it?  There wasn't
> something else, to do with TINA in Newcastle or something?  I'm probably
> imagining it...
>
> - Sam.
>
>
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Fwd: [Foundation-l] 6 reasons we're in another book-burning period in history

[Andrew Garrett]

On 10/15/11, John Vandenberg  wrote:
> Anyone know what happened to the books at UNSW in the end?  Was
> everything digitially preserved before being 'burnt'?

Found this on the Library website while researching for a linguistics
assignment today.

http://www.library.unsw.edu.au/images/pdf/StatementOnCollectionManagement_March2011.pdf

-- 
Andrew Garrett
Wikimedia Foundation
agarr...@wikimedia.org

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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Open-Edge (education) conference - Sydney, 9 Oct

[Andrew Owens]

It was delivered to my mailbox by lists.wikimedia.org at Thu, 20 Oct 2011
23:04:54 -0700 (PDT) according to the hidden headers, which translates to
about 5:04pm AEDT today.

And no idea!!

kindest regards
Andrew

On 21 October 2011 16:32, Liam Wyatt  wrote:

> oh... wow.
>
> Did that just come through to me today, or was that (re?)posted to the list
> only today?
> Where do emails go to live when they're waiting to be delivered for two
> years?
>
> -Liam
>
> wittylama.com/blog
> Peace, love & metadata
>
>
>
> On 21 October 2011 08:27, Peter Jeremy  wrote:
>
>> On 20 August 2009 03:24, Brianna Laugher 
>> wrote:
>>^^
>>
>> On 2011-Oct-21 06:51:29 +, Liam Wyatt  wrote:
>> >Are you sure it's for October? THat seems a bit of a short lead-time
>> given
>> >it's already the 21st! :-)
>>
>> Have a closer look at the date.  I'm not sure where it's been for the
>> past 2 years.
>>
>> --
>> Peter Jeremy
>>
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>
>
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Wikimedia at This Is Not Art

[Andrew Garrett]

On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 3:54 PM, Liam Wyatt  wrote:
> Just to bump this one up again :-)
> I'm going to be there too - looks like we've got four folks attending. Any
> more takers?
> -Liam

Unlikely, I'm getting my wisdom teeth out on the 29th.

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agarr...@wikimedia.org

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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] State of the Map, Sep 9-11 - discount for early birds, scholarships

[Andrew Owens]

I know myself and User:Moondyne have contributed a fair bit in times past.
I'd assume others would have too, as there's been a lot of work done on
Australian locations.

kindest regards
Andrew

On 2 June 2011 14:47, John Vandenberg  wrote:

> Are there any Australians who are OSM contributors?
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Samuel Klein 
> Date: Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 3:39 PM
> Subject: [Foundation-l] [OT: OSM] State of the Map, Sep 9-11 -
> discount for early birds, scholarships
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List 
>
>
> Somewhat off-topic, from one of our awesome cousin projects:
>
> The annual OSM meeting will be in Denver this September 9-11.  Early
> bird registration ends in two weeks.
>
> Outside of Wikimedia, OSM may be the most successful focused free
> knowledge project around, and has revolutionized the culture of
> mapping worldwide.  I had the pleasure of seeing their LinuxTag booth
> the other week, and some of the print maps they are making with their
> data are among the best I have seen.  I encourage anyone who is close
> to Denver to consider going.
>
> They are offering scholarships for mappers from countries with smaller
> mapping communities who could not afford to come.  They list a few
> countries as examples:
>
>Eastern and Southern Europe: Belarus, Kosovo, Bulgaria
>Arab States: Tunisia, Bahrain, Jordan
>Asia: Nepal, Afghanistan, Cambodia, Indonesia
>Latin America: Argentina, Bolivia, Guatemala
>Africa: Liberia, Ivory Coast, Swaziland
>
> If you know OSM contributors in these regions who might benefit from
> being at this meeting, you can nominate them via email until June 25:
> http://stateofthemap.org/scholarships-to-state-of-the-map-2011/
>
> SJ
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> Subject: State of the Map discounts
>
> Hello,
>
> As you may have heard, this years main OpenStreetMap event, "State of
> the Map", will take place in Denver, Colorado, USA during September
> 9th-11th. Read more about our event on our website
> http://stateofthemap.org/
> If you are a member of the OpenStreetMap Foundation, we can offer you
> a $15 discount on the community tickets. This discount is also
> available for the early-bird tickets which can still be acquired until
> June 15th.
>
> You may want to extend your stay in Denver by also attending FOSS4G
> http://2011.foss4g.org/
> Let's meet in Denver!
> Henk Hoff
>
> --
> Organising Committee
> State Of The Map 2011
> http://www.stateofthemap.org/
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/
>
> h...@stateofthemap.org
> phone +31 6 4808 8925
>
>
>
>
> --
> Samuel Klein  identi.ca:sj   w:user:sj  +1 617 529
> 4266
>
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>
>
> --
> John Vandenberg
>
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[Wikimediaau-l] Archives NSW - anyone able to help?

[Andrew Owens]

Thought this might be an opportunity for our guys to help out :)

http://archivesoutside.records.nsw.gov.au/can-you-date-this-photograph-wagga-wagga-council-chambers/

Quoting from that site:

*This photograph comes to you from Charles Sturt University Regional
Archives in Wagga Wagga.

The image is obviously of an official occasion, most likely the welcoming of
some important people (possibly, the man and woman in the centre front) to
Wagga but we don’t know who they are or when it was taken.

Two things we do know about it are that the people are standing on the front
steps of the Wagga Wagga Council Chambers (built in 1881) and that the
bearded gentleman in the hat in the back left is James Gormly, Member for
Murrumbidgee/Wagga (1885-1904), who died in 1922.  These two pieces of
information equate to the photograph being taken sometime between 1881 &
1922.

What we’re hoping for is that the wonderful blog readers know enough about
fashion so as to narrow down the time frame even further.  The best outcome
would be for someone to actually recognise and name the visitors.

We have many other undated photographs in Photo
Investigatorand
on our Flickr
account . If you know the
dates or any other interesting facts about these images please let us
know
.*
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] question arising from minutes

[Andrew Owens]

Agreed with Adam.

What works for a small informal organisation handling a few thousand at most
where everyone knows everyone else may not upscale to an active organisation
handling over $100k. That doesn't just go for elections - we're working on
policies on a range of things which will improve our processes and make them
more transparent - but it makes sense to look at one thing at a time and get
it right. Also if we get the consultation process right for this then we can
use it for other things, including more fun stuff.

kindest regards
Andrew

On 24 March 2011 06:41, Adam Jenkins  wrote:

> Hi!
>
> The problem isn't so much with how it is run currently, but that the
> current model means that the election is run entirely by the previous
> committee or people from the previous committee: including accepting
> nominations, managing the count, and handling the results. Ideally,
> people who are running for a position shouldn't also be managing the
> election process, yet at the moment that's how things are set up.
> There are good reasons for doing things the way we have, and as a
> small organisation with limited funding this wasn't a major concern,
> but for the long term it would be nice to rethink this - especially as
> WMAU changes and our responsibilities grow. Changing how we manage
> elections wouldn't be difficult or expensive, and I think it would put
> us in a better position, so it seems worth getting it right now and
> then not having to worry about this issue again.
>
> I'll look at workspaces, and having your help, to any extent, would be
> great. :)
>
> Adam.
>
>
> On 24 March 2011 15:16, private musings  wrote:
> > sounds like a good candidate for a workspace on the wiki :-) - If I
> > could figure out the best spot for it, I'd probably sign up as an
> > interested observer - and sure, I may be able to help out some too.
> >
> > Personally I haven't really been that concerned by the status quo -
> > you mention that it isn't 'reliable' - in what way do you feel this is
> > so?
> >
> > cheers,
> >
> > Peter,
> > PM.
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 1:52 PM, Adam Jenkins 
> wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> That's being included in the forthcoming newsletter, but this is a
> >> good a time as any to raise it. :) We've been a bit concerned that the
> >> current model isn't as reliable as we would like it to be, as we felt
> >> that the election process needs to be at the highest standards of
> >> transparency and trustworthiness now that the nature of WMAU is
> >> changing as your funding model changes, and as the breadth of our
> >> activities (including public actions) grow. So we thought the best bet
> >> would be to ask some members if they'd like to try and work out
> >> alternative approaches to handling elections. I'm chairing it, in the
> >> sense that I'll manage discussions and write up the response, but
> >> anyone is welcome to volunteer to be a part of the process.
> >>
> >> All options are on the table, as we want to consider everything -
> >> suggestions include using a formal returning officer from within the
> >> membership to mange the election process, having an independent third
> >> party manage the entire process from start to finish, changing the
> >> voting method, or just staying with the status quo. Anything is open
> >> to discussion.
> >>
> >> The subcommittee will write a report (probably a task that will fall
> >> on me) recommending the preferred approach (or approaches) and it will
> >> be tabled for the committee as well as shared with members, and we
> >> will look to running with any recommendations in the future.
> >>
> >> If you, or anyone else, wants to help I'd be really happy. :)
> >>
> >> Adam.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 24 March 2011 13:04, private musings  wrote:
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> I've been trying to catch up with wiki things, having wandered off for
> >>> a couple of months, and was reading the minutes from Feb;
> >>> http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Meeting:Committee_%282011-02-27%29
> >>>
> >>> I noticed this bit under 'Discussion';
> >>>
> >>> 'Reporting on the plan to reexamine the election procedures, it was
> >>> decided that members will be notified of the subcommittee and invited
> >>> to join in the next week'
> >>>
> >>> I'm afra

Re: [Wikimediaau-l] open wiki editing for WMAU?

[Andrew Owens]

FTR, I'm not opposed to selectively opening the site (or more, certain
namespaces) to public editing. I am firmly in agreement with Brian and John
that the situation we're in does not permit a "free for all" as we have
obligations and responsibilities (including under the Act) as an
organisation which in part are met through our website, so it's a matter of
figuring out how to maximise the pros while minimising the cons.

I would be more minded to support a proposal if we saw more members editing
the wiki as they all have the right to do presently.

cheers
Andrew

On 17 November 2010 11:43, Nathan Carter  wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 10:56 PM, John Vandenberg 
> wrote:
> > Another option is for non-members to be restricted to talk pages on
> > the main wiki.  This means they cant edit pages, but they can initiate
> > and participate in discussions about them.  Talk pages shouldn't
> > contain anything official.
> My view is that the wiki itself is a marketing and communication tool.
> It advertises WMAU to the world at large while also providing
> communication to members (not disimilar to a newsletter). I agree that
> opening talk pages could be worthwhile.
>
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Update request :-)

[Andrew Garrett]

On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 11:15 AM, private musings
 wrote:
> My name is Privatemusings. I am a survivor living in Sydney. I am
> broadcasting on all WMAU frequencies. I will be at the Meetup on thursday,
> when the sun is just about down. If you are out there... if anyone is out
> there... I can provide food, I can provide shelter, I can provide security.
> If there's anybody out there... anybody... please. You are not alone.
>
> see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/Sydney#Thurs_26th.2C_6pm_til_late_at_Belgian_Beer_Cafe.2C_the_Rocks
> (first beer free for first to identify the above quote too..)
> and any response to any of the below would be great :-)

I'll be along (and it's from 28 days later).

-- 
Andrew Garrett
http://werdn.us/

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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] ping on the wiki mainpage loading issues

[Andrew Owens]

18.936 sec for me.

This problem as far as I know only affects the front page, not any other
pages on the wiki (which typically load in under a second).

cheers
Andrew

On 29 May 2010 19:50, Mark Hurd  wrote:

> On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 6:34 PM, Andrew Garrett 
> wrote:
> > On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 6:40 PM, private musings 
> wrote:
> >> G'day all,
> >> per the below, and here;
> >>
> http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Australia#web_page_speed_times
> >> I thought I'd just try a gentle 'ping' to the mailing list to see if
> these
> >> sorts of loading times are normal, or as I suspect, a bit below par -
> thanks
> >> to all for the various technical works undertaken to date, and hopefully
> we
> >> can find what's causing the rather slow loading of our mainpage without
> too
> >> much hassle :-)
> >> (there's beer and pizza in it for anyone clever who can fix it up, if
> >> they're in Sydney ;-)
> >> cheers,
> >> Peter,
> >> PM.
> >>   1. <-- Served in 22.373 secs. --> - once again the site seems fast
> when
> >> not logged in (though the 'served in' time was 30secs+), then slows to a
> >> crawl when you log in. This is getting a bit embarrassing - just had
> >> (another) 'gosh that's slow' type comment - not a great look.
> Privatemusings
> >> 13:03, 25 February 2010 (EST)
> >>   2. <-- Served in 21.549 secs. --> - still slow t'would seem :-(
> >> Privatemusings 15:48, 1 March 2010 (EST)
> >>   3. <-- Served in 21.832 secs. --> - still seems to take an age for me
> -
> >> I'll try to remember to poke werdna :-) Privatemusings 11:09, 25 March
> 2010
> >> (EST)
> >>   4. <-- Served in 21.172 secs. --> - haven't poked anyone, but the
> >> frontpage particularly is still very slow. Privatemusings 13:11, 21
> April
> >> 2010 (EST)
> >>   5. <-- Served in 21.650 secs. --> - still slow - will try and raise
> the
> >> matter again :-) Privatemusings 13:35, 30 April 2010 (EST)
> >>   6. <-- Served in 22.751 secs. --> - still slow. Heading to the mailing
> >> list :-) Privatemusings 14:36, 29 May 2010 (EST)
> >
> > Loads quickly when logged-out, which is, I suppose, the most important
> > part. I'll look at the issues for logged-in users soon, but I suspect
> > it's related to the use of Commons media — I'll make sure that we can
> > get that loading up properly.
> >
> > On a general point, I'd like it very much if you mailed these sorts of
> > complaints directly to the mailing list (or, indeed, directly to me
> > personally). I don't have time to monitor every discussion page on the
> > Wikimedia Australia wiki.
> >
> > Thanks very much!
>
> Worked fine for me, just now.
>
> > --
> > Andrew Garrett
> > http://werdn.us/
>
> --
> Regards,
> Mark Hurd, B.Sc.(Ma.)(Hons.)
>
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] ping on the wiki mainpage loading issues

[Andrew Garrett]

On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 6:40 PM, private musings  wrote:
> G'day all,
> per the below, and here;
> http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Australia#web_page_speed_times
> I thought I'd just try a gentle 'ping' to the mailing list to see if these
> sorts of loading times are normal, or as I suspect, a bit below par - thanks
> to all for the various technical works undertaken to date, and hopefully we
> can find what's causing the rather slow loading of our mainpage without too
> much hassle :-)
> (there's beer and pizza in it for anyone clever who can fix it up, if
> they're in Sydney ;-)
> cheers,
> Peter,
> PM.
>   1. <-- Served in 22.373 secs. --> - once again the site seems fast when
> not logged in (though the 'served in' time was 30secs+), then slows to a
> crawl when you log in. This is getting a bit embarrassing - just had
> (another) 'gosh that's slow' type comment - not a great look. Privatemusings
> 13:03, 25 February 2010 (EST)
>   2. <-- Served in 21.549 secs. --> - still slow t'would seem :-(
> Privatemusings 15:48, 1 March 2010 (EST)
>   3. <-- Served in 21.832 secs. --> - still seems to take an age for me -
> I'll try to remember to poke werdna :-) Privatemusings 11:09, 25 March 2010
> (EST)
>   4. <-- Served in 21.172 secs. --> - haven't poked anyone, but the
> frontpage particularly is still very slow. Privatemusings 13:11, 21 April
> 2010 (EST)
>   5. <-- Served in 21.650 secs. --> - still slow - will try and raise the
> matter again :-) Privatemusings 13:35, 30 April 2010 (EST)
>   6. <-- Served in 22.751 secs. --> - still slow. Heading to the mailing
> list :-) Privatemusings 14:36, 29 May 2010 (EST)

Loads quickly when logged-out, which is, I suppose, the most important
part. I'll look at the issues for logged-in users soon, but I suspect
it's related to the use of Commons media — I'll make sure that we can
get that loading up properly.

On a general point, I'd like it very much if you mailed these sorts of
complaints directly to the mailing list (or, indeed, directly to me
personally). I don't have time to monitor every discussion page on the
Wikimedia Australia wiki.

Thanks very much!


-- 
Andrew Garrett
http://werdn.us/

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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] [wmau:members] Committee changes

[Andrew]

Hi all,

I wish to second Sarah's post above - what she has written represents the
views of our entire committee. At the teleconference, when we were passing
the motion to accept Brianna's resignation, every single committee member
added the words "with regret" to their vote. Personally, I'd like to thank
Brianna for her hard work and dedication from before the existence of the
chapter to the present and her excellent representation of our chapter on
many and varied opportunities both in Australia and overseas, as well as
wishing her the best into the future.

I also wish to congratulate Steve on becoming our new President and to thank
him for accepting such a tough role at incredibly short notice. Steve hasn't
wasted any time and has already gotten to work in the role, and I look
forward to seeing what we can achieve together (as a committee, *and* as a
membership) in coming weeks and months.

regards
Andrew

On 10 May 2010 20:47, Sarah Ewart  wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> On Saturday May 8 Brianna informed the committee of her intention to resign
> as president of Wikimedia Australia. As a result, we convened a special
> purpose teleconference on Sunday night and, with deep regret, the committee
> reluctantly accepted Brianna's resignation.
>
> Brianna has been a president of integrity and her dedication and leadership
> will be greatly missed by all members of the committee. She has served on
> Wikimedia Australia's committee since its inception and her work was
> especially significant and important in the early history of the chapter. I
> don't think it's an overstatement to say that without her, the chapter would
> not have been successfully established at that time. As secretary of an
> interim committee that had no president or vice president, she played a
> critical role in ensuring Wikimedia Australia was established and recognised
> as an official chapter and legal entity by both the government of Victoria
> and the Wikimedia Foundation. She is very highly regarded and respected in
> the international community and I was staggered by the number of people who
> approached me at the Wikimedia Foundation meeting in Germany last month to
> ask after her. I hope that she will continue to be a significant presence in
> the both the global and local Wikimedia and free culture communities. We
> sincerely thank her for the tremendously valuable and important contribution
> she has made over the last four years to the chapter, the committee and to
> the free culture movement in Australia and we wish her all the best for her
> future endeavours.
>
> During the committee's teleconference on Sunday night, nominations for the
> seat of president were opened. Steve Peters, our sitting treasurer, accepted
> a nomination from me for president. No further nominations were received and
> Steve's nomination was unanimously endorsed and supported. Steve will take
> the seat of president effective immediately and lead us into the next Annual
> General Meeting. This, of course, means that we now have a vacant seat on
> the committee. The Rules of the Association allows the committee to appoint
> a financial chapter member from outside the committee to a vacant
> non-executive/ordinary member* *seat. Two committee members (Brian and
> Liam) are currently in the UK attending the Wikimedia Foundation's
> fundraising meeting, which has made it very difficult to organise a proper
> meeting but we are continuing to discuss these issues internally and will
> decide whether to leave the seat vacant until the AGM or seek to fill it
> under the Association Rules.The membership will be advised as soon as any
> decisions are made in regard to these issues.
>
> I hope Wikimedia Australia's membership, friends and supporters will join
> with the committee in thanking Brianna for her dedication and hard work over
> the last four years and in wishing her all the best for the futuer.
>
> Regards,
> Sarah Ewart
> Secretary
> Wikimedia Australia
>
> On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 10:31 PM, Brianna Laugher <
> brianna.laug...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Some news: on Sunday I resigned as president of Wikimedia Australia.
>> The ctte accepted my resignation and as per our Rules, appointed one
>> of the committee members to the office, who will serve until the next
>> AGM.
>>
>> I guess this news may come as a shock or it may not. It's something
>> I've been thinking about for quite a while and not something that I
>> decided lightly or in haste. If anything, I probably decided too
>> slowly.
>>
>> There's no bad blood with any of the ctte members, and it's not about
>> anything that has happened in Wiki

Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Wikimedia in the Classroom (Queensland project)

[Andrew]

Excellent job Craig - it's a great model for member-driven outreach projects
and I wish you the best of luck. The issue with being able to present stuff
to people who work (or are available) 9-5 in work time is always a challenge
- it's one we hit with unrelated projects in Perth.

(replying to Craig and Bryce) People fear what they don't understand - and
we're competing for air with a media that (with some notable exceptions)
loves to predict our demise and overstate internal dramas on the project.
Also as Craig says many teachers don't even know the other projects exist,
and those may be of direct use to them in other ways.

kindest regards
Andrew


On 10 May 2010 17:15, Bryce Roney  wrote:

> That seems to be a very solid presentation, most of my teachers I have seem
> to be
> reasonably adept at being able to use Wikipedia and understand how to make
> sure
> an article is accurate and the usefulness of it as a spring board to other
> references.
>
> That said, I know there are teachers out there who are incredibly
> anti-Wikipedia and
> a presentation like this could go a long way into being able to get
> teachers to understand
> what Wikipedia is and isn't.
>
> Best of luck with your project.
>
> On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 5:35 PM, Craig Franklin  wrote:
>
>> Okay, it looks like the the Wiki has been fixed, so here goes:
>>
>> Over the past few months, a few of us up here in Brisbane have been
>> developing a programme and materials to do presentations to teachers and
>> schools.  It's been our observation that while many teachers have negative
>> views about Wikipedia, these can be fairly easily dispelled by standing in
>> front of them and talking about who we are, what we do, and putting some
>> misconceptions right.  It's also a good way to showcase our lesser-known
>> projects; while most know Wikipedia, they don't know about Wiktionary and
>> Wikisource, even though those can be valuable resources as well.
>>
>> I've placed a PDF of the most recent presentation we did up on the chapter
>> site.  The thumbnails don't appear to work, but if you click on the
>> filename
>> you can download a complete PDF of my Powerpoint:
>>
>>
>> http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/File:Wikimedia_Overview_Presentation_For_Sc
>> hools.pdf<http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/File:Wikimedia_Overview_Presentation_For_Schools.pdf>
>>
>> Our first presentation was in early April at Redcliffe State High School.
>> Feedback was very positive and once we sat down and talked Wiki for an
>> hour,
>> the teachers wanted to get involved with either using our content, or
>> doing
>> projects which would involve working collaboratively with us.  I'll sum up
>> the exact feedback in a future mail, but when they thought about it they
>> also had a lot of ideas that I think are quite exciting and I'd be
>> interested in going further with.
>>
>> The challenges I can see in the future is finding more places to do the
>> presentation (we are lucky to have a member of the chapter who is a
>> teacher
>> at said school), and following up effectively and quickly on teacher
>> ideas.
>> The other issue I suppose I have is that I'm only one man, I have a
>> fulltime
>> job, and generally speaking pupil-free days are the only time when we can
>> do
>> these, which limits us to a handful of events a year.  This can be dealt
>> with by either convincing teachers and educators to come to night classes,
>> or training up other people who can take time off work or whatever to go
>> and
>> do the presentation.
>>
>> Anyway, feel free to have a look at the presentation slides and I'll be
>> happy to answer any questions you have at this stage.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Craig
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wikimediaau-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org
>> [mailto:wikimediaau-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Sarah
>> Ewart
>> Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2010 8:50 PM
>> To: Wikimedia-au
>> Subject: Re: [Wikimediaau-l] grants application this year?
>>
>> Craig, please, please, please do write up on the wiki what you've been
>> doing. I think it's very important for the chapter's health to see
>> what members are achieving in their local communities.
>>
>> On 5/5/10, Craig Franklin  wrote:
>> > Well, there's stuff going on.  My little "Wikipedia in the Classroom"
>> > project has been boiling away pretty nicely (I really ought to update
>> the
>> > page on the 

Re: [Wikimediaau-l] grants application this year?

[Andrew]

And agreed with Sarah - we'd welcome applications to Wikimedia Australia's
own small grants scheme for petrol/travel expenses for individual
expeditions for Commons. Only apply if there actually are expenses - my
trips to the northern suburbs of Perth cost me nothing but my own time - but
these regional expeditions where people are travelling hundreds of
kilometres, or need equipment which they're only really (for the most part)
going to use for our purposes, clearly qualify in my view.

kindest regards
Andrew

On 6 May 2010 03:44, Andrew  wrote:

> This all reminds me that I really, really need to go through and upload all
> my southern Melbourne, Newcastle, Perth, Mandurah, Geraldton and Bunbury
> shots going back four years. Amazing how many you collect fully intending to
> upload to commons and it just never happens for one reason or another.
>
> And Bidgee, re things being lost forever - had the same idea re Marysville
> when that happened.
>
> kindest regards
> Andrew
>
>
> On 5 May 2010 19:18, Matt inbgn  wrote:
>
>> Hi Robert,
>>
>> Probably not the place for this but since you have brought the topic up
>> ...
>>
>> I have about 50-60 photos from Temora taken last weekend that are almost
>> ready to upload. Some beautiful churches and public buildings there. These
>> go with the ones from Ariah Park (a very attractive town), Beckom, Mirrool
>> (Home of the Silo Kick!) and Barmedman already uploaded and some of
>> Ardlethan and Morundah yet to upload.
>>
>> Hay, Carrathool, Goolgowi (maybe Hillston) etc. are on the list for a
>> future weekend (when sunny weather permits).
>>
>> Matt
>>
>>
>> On 5 May 2010 20:55,  wrote:
>>
>>> I just signed up to this mail list yesterday (didn't know it had existed
>>> until yesterday).
>>>
>>> I had photographed most of the Top End of the NT but lost 80%
>>> (unrecoverable) of my photos during the move down south.
>>>
>>> When I returned back to NSW my aim was to cover as much cities, suburbs,
>>> towns, villages and locality not just in NSW but other states and
>>> territories.
>>>
>>> Locations in my local (within 15km) area have been covered by walking or
>>> riding a push bike (yes it is possible) and other locations used coaches
>>> (as I don't have a car nor license [I'll get one someday]) which has
>>> meant
>>> I've needed to stay overnight and I pay out of my own pocket (My most
>>> recent Canberra trip cost me $50 [return coach ticket], $120 for
>>> overnight
>>> accommodation and $8.80 for an ACTION off-peak bus ticket [two days]) and
>>> I
>>> plan the places to photograph and map them but even then you only cover
>>> 20%
>>> in a day.
>>>
>>> In the next few weeks (sometime in June) I will be visiting Point Cook
>>> and
>>> then it will be back to Canberra (date is yet to be set) but I'm hoping
>>> to
>>> do a two or three day trip to Albury/Wodonga and Temora this year.
>>>
>>> There are so many importance and historic places (not just buildings,
>>> statues, trees ect) that have only a few photographs or none at all over
>>> Australia and the earthquake in Kalgoorlie-Boulder just proves that they
>>> can be lost forever. Maybe we should look at forming groups to cover
>>> remote
>>> areas and in areas no so remote area. I would even put out the challenge
>>> to
>>> cover some areas by public transport and push bikes. ;)
>>>
>>> Robert
>>>
>>> On Wed, 5 May 2010 18:08:03 +0800, Andrew 
>>> wrote:
>>> > I'd like to pitch an idea regarding a possible grant application.
>>> >
>>> > One of the interesting things that came up in Berlin (both Sarah and I
>>> > attended the Outreach Case Studies session where this was discussed)
>>> was
>>> > the
>>> > Wikiexpedition done by the Polish Wikipedia - I understand the Czechs
>>> also
>>> > undertook a similar thing and got a grant for it (which included
>>> petrol,
>>> > accommodation and buying a camera), and I seem to remember Estonia and
>>> a
>>> > few
>>> > others talking along similar lines.
>>> >
>>> > I was talking with a WA volunteer today and one issue we have is that
>>> some
>>> > areas of our great country are hopelessly under-covered. Speaking from
>>> a
>>> WA
>>> > point of view, the Wheatbelt reg

Re: [Wikimediaau-l] grants application this year?

[Andrew]

This all reminds me that I really, really need to go through and upload all
my southern Melbourne, Newcastle, Perth, Mandurah, Geraldton and Bunbury
shots going back four years. Amazing how many you collect fully intending to
upload to commons and it just never happens for one reason or another.

And Bidgee, re things being lost forever - had the same idea re Marysville
when that happened.

kindest regards
Andrew

On 5 May 2010 19:18, Matt inbgn  wrote:

> Hi Robert,
>
> Probably not the place for this but since you have brought the topic up ...
>
> I have about 50-60 photos from Temora taken last weekend that are almost
> ready to upload. Some beautiful churches and public buildings there. These
> go with the ones from Ariah Park (a very attractive town), Beckom, Mirrool
> (Home of the Silo Kick!) and Barmedman already uploaded and some of
> Ardlethan and Morundah yet to upload.
>
> Hay, Carrathool, Goolgowi (maybe Hillston) etc. are on the list for a
> future weekend (when sunny weather permits).
>
> Matt
>
>
> On 5 May 2010 20:55,  wrote:
>
>> I just signed up to this mail list yesterday (didn't know it had existed
>> until yesterday).
>>
>> I had photographed most of the Top End of the NT but lost 80%
>> (unrecoverable) of my photos during the move down south.
>>
>> When I returned back to NSW my aim was to cover as much cities, suburbs,
>> towns, villages and locality not just in NSW but other states and
>> territories.
>>
>> Locations in my local (within 15km) area have been covered by walking or
>> riding a push bike (yes it is possible) and other locations used coaches
>> (as I don't have a car nor license [I'll get one someday]) which has meant
>> I've needed to stay overnight and I pay out of my own pocket (My most
>> recent Canberra trip cost me $50 [return coach ticket], $120 for overnight
>> accommodation and $8.80 for an ACTION off-peak bus ticket [two days]) and
>> I
>> plan the places to photograph and map them but even then you only cover
>> 20%
>> in a day.
>>
>> In the next few weeks (sometime in June) I will be visiting Point Cook and
>> then it will be back to Canberra (date is yet to be set) but I'm hoping to
>> do a two or three day trip to Albury/Wodonga and Temora this year.
>>
>> There are so many importance and historic places (not just buildings,
>> statues, trees ect) that have only a few photographs or none at all over
>> Australia and the earthquake in Kalgoorlie-Boulder just proves that they
>> can be lost forever. Maybe we should look at forming groups to cover
>> remote
>> areas and in areas no so remote area. I would even put out the challenge
>> to
>> cover some areas by public transport and push bikes. ;)
>>
>> Robert
>>
>> On Wed, 5 May 2010 18:08:03 +0800, Andrew 
>> wrote:
>> > I'd like to pitch an idea regarding a possible grant application.
>> >
>> > One of the interesting things that came up in Berlin (both Sarah and I
>> > attended the Outreach Case Studies session where this was discussed) was
>> > the
>> > Wikiexpedition done by the Polish Wikipedia - I understand the Czechs
>> also
>> > undertook a similar thing and got a grant for it (which included petrol,
>> > accommodation and buying a camera), and I seem to remember Estonia and a
>> > few
>> > others talking along similar lines.
>> >
>> > I was talking with a WA volunteer today and one issue we have is that
>> some
>> > areas of our great country are hopelessly under-covered. Speaking from a
>> WA
>> > point of view, the Wheatbelt region immediately comes to mind, but I'm
>> sure
>> > anyone reading this can think of somewhere nearby (or at least within
>> > reach)
>> > which falls into this category. In the past, despite my
>> non-car-ownership,
>> > I've done what I can to address this, and two other Wikimedians,
>> Mattinbgn
>> > and Bidgee (Robert), have done tremendous work in getting photos of
>> things
>> > like town halls and other monuments in Victoria to illustrate our
>> articles
>> > and build up Commons. That shows what *individuals* can do with an
>> > appropriate plan.
>> >
>> > The Wikiexpedition was basically a bunch of volunteers with cars
>> (15-20?)
>> > who coordinated and were driving around taking photographs of basically
>> > anything that was of importance or interest. Being done over a set time
>> > with
>> > a specific deadline for completing the photo runs

Re: [Wikimediaau-l] grants application this year?

[Andrew]

_meeting/Sarahs_notes#Working_group:_Volunteers
>> )
>> and we discussed the final date for grant applications and Eric made
>> it clear that while May 15 is listed as the deadline, it's more like a
>> preferred date. If applications are in by then they'll be processed
>> more quickly, but we're welcome to submit applications after that
>> date.
>>
>> Last year we had to pay back a grant a chapter member requested for an
>> outreach conference they wanted to run because it fell through and
>> didn't end up going ahead. Paying back the funds was a real headache
>> for the committee (especially for Brian as the then-treasurer) and it
>> took a considerable amount of time to resolve with the foundation. I
>> don't want to see this happen again so I'd oppose any moves to rush
>> through any ill-considered applications just to get them in before May
>> 15 or that seem more orientated on getting money for the sake of it or
>> for the simple stated purpose of engaging with the grant process.
>> Grant applications are serious, not something that you submit just to
>> engage with a process and there needs to be a properly thought through
>> application with an idea of who, what, when, where and how the
>> proposed project will be run. If we have to pay back another grant,
>> it's going to reflect very poorly on the chapter so this isn't
>> something that should just be slapped together at the last minute.
>>
>> I'd rather see us take the time to discuss possible ideas properly and
>> get the details of any proposed projects members want to run nutted
>> out as carefully as possible before submitting applications.
>>
>>
>> On 5/5/10, Andrew  wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I'll be straight up and state I'm not going to support this, for a
>> variety
>> > of reasons.
>> >
>> > Firstly, I don't think our chapter is capable of producing a grant
>> > application to the standard WMF require for such a big area (education)
>> in
>> > 10 days that addresses all the things WMF expect us to address.
>> >
>> > Secondly, this appears to be trying to reinvent the wheel. Craig's
>> project
>> > up in Brisbane is already making significant advances, at least three
>> other
>> > chapter members have made contacts with (or have been contacted by)
>> > educational departments and representative associations, and completed
>> > resources already in use in schools exist in other languages from other
>> > chapters - I'm presently trying to secure translations of these on
>> behalf of
>> > the chapter. Without any attempt to coordinate the various approaches,
>> we're
>> > not only less effective but also give the outward appearance of being
>> > disorganised to the various educational bodies involved.
>> >
>> > Thirdly, given your recent conflict with, among other people, Jimbo
>> Wales
>> > and various concerns about past occasions when you have undertaken
>> chapter
>> > work (in particular the Dictionary of Sydney episode), I do not think
>> you
>> > personally should be making any outward representation of our chapter
>> and,
>> > if the grant were to be approved, I think someone else should lead it.
>> >
>> > kindest regards
>> > Andrew
>> >
>> > On 5 May 2010 11:46, private musings  wrote:
>> >
>> >> G'day all,
>> >>
>> >> does the chapter have any grants proposals heading in this year?
>> >>
>> >> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Index
>> >>
>> >> Do we have any structure for creating / supporting a chapter grant like
>> >> this?
>> >>
>> >> I have a few ideas and opportunities - for wiki use in education,
>> >> hopefully
>> >> in partnership with nsw dep. of ed. - if I write something up in the
>> next
>> >> week or so, I suppose we could discuss it on our wiki, and forward it
>> to
>> >> the
>> >> grants page linked above for consideration if appropriate?
>> >>
>> >> I think it's important for a functioning healthy chapter to try to
>> engage
>> >> with processes like this, so if you too have any ideas or
>> opportunities,
>> >> please do pipe up, and let's work on them on the wiki, and get them
>> going
>> >> :-)
>> >>
>> >> cheers,
>> >>
>> >> Peter,
>> >> PM.
>> >>
>> >> ___
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>> >> Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
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>
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] grants application this year?

[Andrew]

Hi,

I'll be straight up and state I'm not going to support this, for a variety
of reasons.

Firstly, I don't think our chapter is capable of producing a grant
application to the standard WMF require for such a big area (education) in
10 days that addresses all the things WMF expect us to address.

Secondly, this appears to be trying to reinvent the wheel. Craig's project
up in Brisbane is already making significant advances, at least three other
chapter members have made contacts with (or have been contacted by)
educational departments and representative associations, and completed
resources already in use in schools exist in other languages from other
chapters - I'm presently trying to secure translations of these on behalf of
the chapter. Without any attempt to coordinate the various approaches, we're
not only less effective but also give the outward appearance of being
disorganised to the various educational bodies involved.

Thirdly, given your recent conflict with, among other people, Jimbo Wales
and various concerns about past occasions when you have undertaken chapter
work (in particular the Dictionary of Sydney episode), I do not think you
personally should be making any outward representation of our chapter and,
if the grant were to be approved, I think someone else should lead it.

kindest regards
Andrew

On 5 May 2010 11:46, private musings  wrote:

> G'day all,
>
> does the chapter have any grants proposals heading in this year?
>
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Index
>
> Do we have any structure for creating / supporting a chapter grant like
> this?
>
> I have a few ideas and opportunities - for wiki use in education, hopefully
> in partnership with nsw dep. of ed. - if I write something up in the next
> week or so, I suppose we could discuss it on our wiki, and forward it to the
> grants page linked above for consideration if appropriate?
>
> I think it's important for a functioning healthy chapter to try to engage
> with processes like this, so if you too have any ideas or opportunities,
> please do pipe up, and let's work on them on the wiki, and get them going
> :-)
>
> cheers,
>
> Peter,
> PM.
>
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>
>
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[Wikimediaau-l] Regular Sydney Meetups

[Andrew Garrett]

Hi all,

In London, we had a successful monthly meetup, which was held on the 
second Sunday of the month, in a particular pub in London's legal 
district, at a particular table, at a particular time.

Just thought I'd throw around the idea of having regular 
monthly/bi-monthly meetups in Sydney, rather than having them whenever 
PrivateMusings gets bored ;) This way, we can plan ahead and actually 
catch up a little more frequently than every 3–4 months.

Issues to discuss:
* How often?
* Same venue? Different venue each meetup? Which venue?
* Should we advertise it with geonotices?
* Should/how/can we cater to people with regular conflicting engagements?

-- 
Andrew Garrett
agarr...@wikimedia.org.au
http://werdn.us


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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] site slowness

[Andrew Garrett]

On 25/02/10 1:08 PM, private musings wrote:
> G'day all,
> Just wanted to ping folk on the issue of our site being rather slow, 
> and apparently significantly under-performing for quite a while? - 
> Times have been noted going back a month here;
> http://www.wikimedia.org.au//wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Australia#web_page_speed_times
> but I think the issue has been known for quite a while before that 
> too? - I hope fixing this up can get a priority too before another 
> couple of months slide by (and apologies that I don't have the 
> technical skill to lend a hand - would a temporary solution be just to 
> move the wiki to some hosting somewhere that just plain works? 
> apologies too if that's not an easy solution - I'll be happy to cough 
> up a donation to this end, if that helps too!)
> either ways, I just had (another) 'gosh that's rather slow' type 
> comment from an aquintance I've been showing some stuff to, and would 
> like to get this sorted before sending out some info. to schools - do 
> pipe up if there's anything I, or other members, can do :-)
I made some changes at the time of the original report, and I was unable 
to make any page load in under half a second.

However, I didn't see the mention of "logged-in". My apologies for that. 
I've found the issue making logged-in pageloads slow, and resolved it. 
If you encounter any further problems, give me a buzz.

-- 
Andrew Garrett
agarr...@wikimedia.org.au
http://werdn.us


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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] follow up on committee meetup

[Andrew]

The first one worked fine :P

It's all in the pipeline but of course we want to make sure we get it right.
Almost everyone has been insanely busy AFK since the retreat due to offline
commitments - it seems to be the Australian way to have two dead months in
Dec and Jan and one ridiculously busy catch-up month in Feb, and our
respective workplaces and etc have been no exception.

Also, two of the three proposals we decided to make key priorities actually
require preparation before we can present them. It's one of those places
where our duties as officers of a non profit organisation collide with the
Wiki impetus, and we're well aware of it (that was also discussed at the
retreat).

regards
Andrew

On 22 February 2010 11:10, private musings  wrote:

> malformed URL? - here's the proper one;
> http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Chapters’_Activity_Calendar
>
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 2:09 PM, private musings 
> wrote:
>
>> ps. - it'd also be cool to make sure we drop updates in semi-regularly
>> here;
>> http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Chapters%E2%80%99_Activity_Calendar
>>  :-)
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 2:08 PM, private musings 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> G'day all,
>>> it's been over three weeks since the committee meeting, and since Andrew
>>> referred to the 'clear goals and objectives for the year ahead' - I think
>>> it's becoming kinda urgent to post something to the membership about what's
>>> planned / what's going on :-)
>>> If there's stuff going on behind the scenes, please do let us (members)
>>> know, so we can offer feedback / get involved / generally just feel good
>>> that the chapter is on the right tracks :-) - If there isn't really anything
>>> happening, then we probably need to have another conversation about how we
>>> can get things going
>>> cheers,
>>> Peter,
>>> PM.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 3:36 PM, Andrew wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm not the secretary, so if I'm wrong I'm happy to be corrected, but my
>>>> understanding is that
>>>>
>>>> 1. We had meetings on 20 Dec, 17 Jan and 30 Jan (the meeting was
>>>> immediately before the retreat and cleared the business items). The
>>>> committee hasn't yet ratified the 30 Jan minutes.
>>>> 2. That particular page (and anything in that part of the wiki in fact)
>>>> is an official page of Wikimedia Australia and the secretary has
>>>> responsibility for it, so it shouldn't be modified by anyone else, as it's 
>>>> a
>>>> formal communication from the appropriate officer to the membership. If 
>>>> it's
>>>> not already linked, there is probably a good reason.
>>>>
>>>> cheers
>>>> Andrew
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 11 February 2010 07:43, private musings wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> coolio :-) - I'm sure we'll figure out the best spot for the notes /
>>>>> minutes etc. - I noticed that we've got some more min.s from Dec and Jan 
>>>>> up
>>>>> there now too;
>>>>> http://wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Meeting:Committee_(2009_December_20)<http://wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Meeting:Committee_%282009_December_20%29>
>>>>> http://wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Meeting:Committee_(2010_January_17)<http://wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Meeting:Committee_%282010_January_17%29>
>>>>> Should they be linked to from the 'meetings' page? - I'm happy to fix
>>>>> all that up, but I'm not sure when a meeting is a meeting or not at the mo
>>>>> ;-)
>>>>> I look forward to reading about the retreat when Brianna gets a mo :-)
>>>>> best,
>>>>> Peter,
>>>>> PM.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 12:19 AM, Sarah Ewart wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 7:47 AM, private musings <
>>>>>> thepmacco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> G'day all,
>>>>>>> I wonder if I could pester a committee member with a spare moment to
>>>>>>> fill in the redlink here;
>>>>>>> http://wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Meetings
>>>>>>> about the Jan. meetup :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That meetings page is for my formal minutes, not for othe

Re: [Wikimediaau-l] follow up on committee meetup

[Andrew]

I'm not the secretary, so if I'm wrong I'm happy to be corrected, but my
understanding is that

1. We had meetings on 20 Dec, 17 Jan and 30 Jan (the meeting was immediately
before the retreat and cleared the business items). The committee hasn't yet
ratified the 30 Jan minutes.
2. That particular page (and anything in that part of the wiki in fact) is
an official page of Wikimedia Australia and the secretary has responsibility
for it, so it shouldn't be modified by anyone else, as it's a formal
communication from the appropriate officer to the membership. If it's not
already linked, there is probably a good reason.

cheers
Andrew

On 11 February 2010 07:43, private musings  wrote:

> coolio :-) - I'm sure we'll figure out the best spot for the notes /
> minutes etc. - I noticed that we've got some more min.s from Dec and Jan up
> there now too;
> http://wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Meeting:Committee_(2009_December_20)<http://wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Meeting:Committee_%282009_December_20%29>
> http://wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Meeting:Committee_(2010_January_17)<http://wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Meeting:Committee_%282010_January_17%29>
> Should they be linked to from the 'meetings' page? - I'm happy to fix all
> that up, but I'm not sure when a meeting is a meeting or not at the mo ;-)
> I look forward to reading about the retreat when Brianna gets a mo :-)
> best,
> Peter,
> PM.
>
> On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 12:19 AM, Sarah Ewart wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 7:47 AM, private musings 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> G'day all,
>>> I wonder if I could pester a committee member with a spare moment to fill
>>> in the redlink here;
>>> http://wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Meetings
>>> about the Jan. meetup :-)
>>>
>>
>> That meetings page is for my formal minutes, not for other things. The
>> retreat pages that are not part of the minutes are kept as a separate
>> collection of pages.
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Schools / Outreach pack

[Andrew]

Now's probably the worst possible time for the exact people we should have
on board - the teachers and edu support people - as this is the first week
of term which is always chaos for them. Not only are they best going to
understand what the needs are in the schools (given resources available,
time available and etc - time is a very very finite resource for students
and teachers alike, and most classrooms aren't IT enabled) but also have the
professional skills to put it together for any group of students in their
learning area in a form they can use, such as a resource pack or lesson
plan, or even simply a delivery program based on X mins per week, with Y
theme. I believe that's the purpose of the interaction WMAU is engaging in
with external bodies who have that experience and can help us scope our
project.

cheers
Andrew

On 2 February 2010 10:45, private musings  wrote:

> sounds great :-)
> I'd really like to encourage anyone currently involved in discussions, or
> with a bit of spare energy to start on the materials work, to head over to
> the official wiki and drop a note in / sign up - it'll be handy to have a
> central resource :-) - the foundation's outreach wiki which is also linked
> to from the below is another very good resource for anyone up for engaging
> in this area;
> http://wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Schools
> cheers,
> Peter,
> PM.
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 12:26 PM, Andrew  wrote:
>
>> The committee at its strategy meeting on the weekend discussed what we can
>> do for education and a number of ideas are being canvassed. Adam's lesson
>> plan idea (from IdeaScale) was one of them; there's also discussions with
>> external bodies (both teachers associations and government departments)
>> either active or near-future planned.
>>
>> I'm deliberately keeping it brief as I am not speaking for the committee,
>> only as an individual member of it.
>>
>> cheers
>> Andrew
>>
>> On 2 February 2010 08:29, private musings  wrote:
>>
>>> G'day all,
>>> If you're interested in working with schools, or helping WMAU bring
>>> material together - or if you're active in this area already, and could
>>> share what you're up to, why not head to the 'offical wiki' and sign up /
>>> share / get involved :-)
>>> http://wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Schools
>>> I've had a couple of opportunities raise there heads what with everyone
>>> heading back to school this week, but there's no doubt quite a bit of
>>> groundwork to do to make sure we're all pulling together - if you have and
>>> time and interest, lets create a project on the wiki!
>>> best,
>>> Peter,
>>> PM.
>>>
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Schools / Outreach pack

[Andrew]

The committee at its strategy meeting on the weekend discussed what we can
do for education and a number of ideas are being canvassed. Adam's lesson
plan idea (from IdeaScale) was one of them; there's also discussions with
external bodies (both teachers associations and government departments)
either active or near-future planned.

I'm deliberately keeping it brief as I am not speaking for the committee,
only as an individual member of it.

cheers
Andrew

On 2 February 2010 08:29, private musings  wrote:

> G'day all,
> If you're interested in working with schools, or helping WMAU bring
> material together - or if you're active in this area already, and could
> share what you're up to, why not head to the 'offical wiki' and sign up /
> share / get involved :-)
> http://wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Schools
> I've had a couple of opportunities raise there heads what with everyone
> heading back to school this week, but there's no doubt quite a bit of
> groundwork to do to make sure we're all pulling together - if you have and
> time and interest, lets create a project on the wiki!
> best,
> Peter,
> PM.
>
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Brainstorming for 2010

[Andrew]

Agreed with Sarah's and Brianna's comments generally. I see it as a
"strategy and planning" meeting - in essence, trying to get our priorities
sorted out, and that's something which can go on forever by email, but in
person with a set time available can be extremely productive. I'm coming
over from Perth for it.

cheers
Andrew

2010/1/21 Brianna Laugher 

> 2010/1/21 Craig Franklin :
> > Getting back to the original topic of this post, is there an "end-date"
> for
> > the Ideascale thing?  Don't want to blow my 50 gold stars on early ideas,
> > only for even better ideas to come up later.
>
> Well we are meeting on the 30th, so this week rather than next would
> be better to allow idea digestion, but next week is better than the
> week after that. ;)
>
> Brianna
>
>
>
> --
> They've just been waiting in a mountain for the right moment:
> http://modernthings.org/
>
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] chapter governance

[Andrew]

I should note I have been misquoted here - my exact wording, as can be seen
on the wiki, was "has to be *resolved* by the committee". Determine means
make up. Resolve means to form a resolution or to decide. A decision
requires inputs - as we discovered in our first meeting over the weekend,
the more complete the information / picture the committee has, the better
the decision it can make. Public debate can and should take place on public
issues - indeed, it proceeded quite well last week in this location - and
can bring out points of view, links, documents, or outside information etc
that is useful to everybody. That all then serves as input to internal
discussions.

The purpose of my post at that time was to combat a perception I was getting
from some places that either consensus on the wiki or mailing list was a
suitable way to determine a chapter position. As several people have pointed
out, we're a non profit organisation dealing with outside entities and we're
expected to be responsible and to communicate clearly with one voice. That
one voice is the resolution mechanism.

That being said, a chapter position if one is developed doesn't bind any
member to the position that results - Adam got it about right in his closing
paragraph above. The key thing is that people don't say "Wikimedia Australia
says blah" when Wikimedia Australia has not passed a resolution and put it
on officialwiki to that effect. I cited the precedent of Phorm optout for
that. That is a Wikimedia Australia position - it's official, anyone can see
that, there is no debate on what WMAU's position is, even though members may
hold their own view and are perfectly free as individuals to advocate for
it.

cheers
Andrew


2009/12/21 Nathan Carter 

> On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 4:25 PM, private musings 
> wrote:
> > I also recently asked on the WMAU wiki about how an
> > 'official chapter position' might be formed (on the ISP filtering stuff),
> > and andrew responded that the official chapter position would be
> determined
> > by the committee
> I don't agree that the official position should be determined solely
> by the committee, it needs to be done in consultation with members and
> endorsed by the committee. When we made a submission for the
> Australian Digital Future Directions inquiry we asked the members of
> the organisation for their input and views. It is important for this
> consultation to be done on issues such as this.
>
> Regards,
> Nathan.
>
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Conroy - "Measures to improve safety of the internet for families"

[Andrew]

My own position is very similar to Liam's - personally opposed to the filter
as a free-thinking Australian citizen who believes it should be up to
parents what their kids see and the government has no place telling adults
what they can or can not see. Additionally I think it could have speed
effects and we're already one of the slower countries broadband-wise in the
developed world. I also agree with Liam though that we need to be clear with
the outside world that we are not Wikipedia, and it is a fine line
(promoting something while not being responsible for it - which is not
irresponsible, but rather acknowledging the responsiblity correctly lies
elsewhere).

cheers
Andrew

2009/12/16 Liam Wyatt 

> Yes, indeed this is a good question and an important issue.
> On a personal basis I am completely opposed to the filter and I imagine
> most Wikimedians in Australia are.
> However, I would caution that the Chapter cannot be seen in word or deed to
> be "responsible for" Wikipedia.
> This was a problem faced by Wikimedia UK in both the "virgin killer" and
> the National Portrait Gallery issues - the UK chapter was very careful not
> to place itself as the official spokesperson for Wikipedia.
>
> Of course, the mandate of the Chapter is to advocate for Free Cultural
> Works and in that sense being involved in political lobbying is something
> that it can/could/should do. We have previously made a submission to a
> government inquiry for example. Making a statement about the filter or
> similar actions is within the chapter's powers.
>
> But... in the event that Wikipedia were to become blocked or was "caught
> up" in some scandal around this issue, the Chapter can only describe what
> Wikipedia policies and practices are - it cannot be seen as responsible for
> the content and have a policy for how to make Wikipedia unblocked or
> what-have-you.
>
> my 2 cents,
> -Liam
>
> wittylama.com/blog
> Peace, love & metadata
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 5:26 AM, Andrew  wrote:
>
>> Matt, thanks - good question. As yet, no it doesn't have an official
>> position - I have forwarded this to the committee list so one can be
>> reached promptly.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Andrew
>>
>>
>>
>> On 16/12/2009, Matt inbgn  wrote:
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > Does the chapter have a position on this
>> > proposal<http://www.minister.dbcde.gov.au/media/media_releases/2009/115
>> >
>> > ?
>> >
>> > Should it have a position?
>> >
>> > If it has a position, what should it be doing to advance that position?
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Matt
>> >
>>
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Conroy - "Measures to improve safety of the internet for families"

[Andrew]

Matt, thanks - good question. As yet, no it doesn't have an official
position - I have forwarded this to the committee list so one can be
reached promptly.

Cheers
Andrew



On 16/12/2009, Matt inbgn  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Does the chapter have a position on this
> proposal<http://www.minister.dbcde.gov.au/media/media_releases/2009/115>
> ?
>
> Should it have a position?
>
> If it has a position, what should it be doing to advance that position?
>
> Cheers,
> Matt
>

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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] official wiki

[Andrew]

2009/12/14 Liam Wyatt 

> If we hope to get more grassroots involvement in the chapter then IMO we
> cannot force people to pay $40 and register an account before they can
> engage in chapter activities. Volunteers should not be forced to pay money
> to volunteer.


Why is it assumed that "volunteering" == "editing the chapter wiki"? It
seems like a strange argument to me.

We're getting projects happening here in Perth and as far as I know neither
of our other financial members, both of whom are fully entitled to accounts,
have one or have asked for one (if they did we'd certainly enable it, but my
point stands.) Increasingly our future is likely going to be with a majority
of members who support our mission who are not even from a WMF-project
background, and are much more likely to engage with us through social media,
messenger, email, telephone and in person.

Additionally, there isn't enough people involved on the wiki as it is to
justify an argument that more people should be at the table. We have 47
members - if I saw even 10 editing productively, I'd say there could be an
argument for more open involvement. As it is, three already busy committee
members are the main editors.

cheers
Andrew
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] warning on the wiki

[Andrew]

I think there is some general unrelated problem - the thing's very very
heavily lagged and is taking over a minute to respond.

cheers
Andrew

2009/12/14 private musings 

> well... being a technical genius 'n all - I identified the problem as due
> to the wiki source logo - and I changed Image: to File: - something tells me
> that this is nothing to do with why the problem went away.. but it has.
> cheers,
> Peter,
> PM.
>
> On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 6:58 PM, private musings 
> wrote:
>
>> I've been chipping away a bit on the wiki, and thought I should probably
>> report this error which now appears at the top of the page;
>> Warning: file_get_contents(
>> http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?titles=Image%3AWikisource-logo.svg&iiprop=timestamp%7Cuser%7Ccomment%7Curl%7Csize%7Csha1%7Cmetadata%7Cmime&prop=imageinfo&format=json&action=query<http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?titles=Image%3AWikisource-logo.svg&iiprop=timestamp%7Cuser%7Ccomment%7Curl%7Csize%7Csha1%7Cmetadata%7Cmime&prop=imageinfo&format=json&action=query>)
>> [function.file-get-contents]:
>> failed to open stream: HTTP request failed! in /srv/www/
>> www.wikimedia.org.au/html/w/includes/HttpFunctions.php on line
>> 116
>>
>> I hope I didn't break anything.
>> cheers,
>> Peter,
>> PM.
>>
>
>
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Membership, regional participation and other things

[Andrew]

2009/12/14 Stephen Bain 

> On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 2:45 AM, Andrew  wrote:
> >
> > This assumes that meetups will fix the perception problem. I don't think
> it
> > will - they're good for social purposes but not much else.
> ...
> > I work in education and I know that allowing people to own their
> successes
> > increases their willingness to try more and stick around, and gives us
> > valuable selling points to encourage sceptical locals.
>
> But who is out there, and what sort of successes would they like to
> own? And what methods would be better than meetups for establishing a
> core of regular participants?
>

Re successes - that's exactly what I want to try and find here in Perth and
encourage others to do similarly elsewhere. And meetups don't build much
beyond personal links/friendships in my view - they're fun, but not
productive. It shouldn't be forgotten WP meetups are not WM meetups -
enthusiasts of one may have no interest in the other, especially if "what's
in it for me?" can't be answered adequately (Gnangarra and I actually had
this experience at largish Perth meetups trying to promote WM.)

cheers
Andrew
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Membership, regional participation and other things

[Andrew]

Hi,

Before I reply, I'll note that I actually agree with Sarah here re Melbourne
- it's also evidenced by Victoria's membership following the national trend
rather than NSW/ACT's.

2009/12/13 Liam Wyatt 

> So, if there is a concern that the chapter is focusing too much on Sydney
> (and/or Melbourne), I wouldn't want this to be the perception, off the back
> of local Wikimedians being particularly interested in hosting meetups.


It's got nothing to do with meetups (more attitudes, actually) - in essence,
and I am paraphrasing a couple of concerns I have received, people feel
Sydney is given full support at national chapter level to conduct events,
national spaces are used to organise them etc, but the perception is that
the smaller cities are "on their own" and lack of expertise/knowhow is an
issue. In the words of one correspondent, but summarising several views I've
heard during 2009, "it's important for some in the organisation to realise
this is Wikimedia Australia, not Wikimedia Sydney like some seem to think it
is".

This is why my election statement sought a role for the committee in
enabling volunteers to do stuff wherever they were by developing a resource
pack or kit they could fall back on - most likely not use as is, but they're
starting from something rather than nothing. It's about enabling people to
achieve (rather than trying to run the projects from head office) and
knowing they have the support to do so, rather than dictating what they
should or should not do. It also ensures Wikimedia Australia gains some
brand integrity and we're not solely relying on the strengths and weaknesses
of individual volunteers with no direct experience of this kind of work or
of approaching institutions and the like.


> The solution is not to stop Sydney/Melbourne Wikimedians from having
> meetups but to encourage people in different cities to host their own.


This assumes that meetups will fix the perception problem. I don't think it
will - they're good for social purposes but not much else. Projects allowing
locals to contribute as they have time and ability to do so would be more
effective and importantly create a sense of achievement as results are
obtained and people can feel a sense of direct connection with the results.
I work in education and I know that allowing people to own their successes
increases their willingness to try more and stick around, and gives us
valuable selling points to encourage sceptical locals.


> The first priority of my election statement
> <http://wikimedia.org.au/wiki/2009-2010_AGM/Vice_President/Liam_Wyatt>this
> year was to encourage the formation of a regular series of meetups in (at
> least) some major cities as a way of galvanising greater local-community
> activity - beyond the ad-hoc system that currently prevails. It would be
> fantastic if all Wikimedians in, say, Adelaide knew that the second Saturday
> of the month at the xyz pub was definitely going to be a meetup. It is the
> time and place consistency that makes the meetups in London (for example)
> such a success.
>

The fact is that regular meetups just aren't going to happen in some cities
due to the local culture, and people don't like a "top-down" direction for
these things. (The point on your election statement re that was brought to
my attention at the time by a non-WA member, so I suspect it's not simply an
issue in Perth as I'd previously thought.)

London and Sydney are big cities with a critical mass and a centre of
gravity, so things work there which are not going to work in Australia's
smaller cities. I've actually been a member of WA organisations which have
tried something like this and it's fallen on its belly before it even
started - nobody turns up at the agreed time, everyone assumes everyone else
did and they don't need to. There's no commitment to it - and you're talking
about a state full of people who've abandoned their commitments to a home
somewhere else to come here with their families to work here, which explains
in part why that is a feature of our culture and to some extent Queensland's
also. In order to make it work, everything has to be negotiated and tweaked
so that they can turn up, are committed (by name, individually) to turning
up etc and the process can take weeks or months (and sometimes fails to
happen at all).


> Would this be a good way to empower more local activities around the
> country?
>

In short, no.

cheers
Andrew
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[Wikimediaau-l] Membership, regional participation and other things

[Andrew]

Fellow members and supporters,

A key priority for 2009-10 has to be building the chapter and make it
successful.

Before being elected to my present role, I heard lots of people saying they
felt this chapter was overly Sydney- and Melbourne-focussed not just in
activity but in priorities. There was also a fair few people saying (both
among those who stayed/newly joined, and some who lapsed) that the chapter
was overly focused on central or headline priorities and, in their view,
gave insufficient support to members.

Using the figures from the secretary's report at the AGM, in regional terms
our numbers were stable, here in WA we went from 5 to 3 members (I am in
fact the only original WA member left) and, even more concerningly,
nationally we lost 2/3 of our initial intake although we actually gained a
fair number of people. We need to do *far* more to retain members, and to
give those outside the two biggest cities reasons to join and ways to
participate - otherwise this chapter will fail. I ran on a platform to that
effect and got support for it, so I'm hoping that means the members trust me
to find ways to act on those concerns.

I am happy for people to approach me privately with project ideas they want
feedback on or support for. I think peer support is vital to keeping
people's enthusiasm up, and I understand not everyone wants to go public
with projects before they're ready. I would note in saying so that I can't
give "official chapter approval" to anything although I can certainly seek
it on your behalf from the committee if you wish me to.

On the wiki I've been working on an early draft for a regional participation
drive, and I'd also appreciate comments on that. I'll be adding more to it
after the first committee meeting on the 20th as I'll know then what I have
support for.

kindest regards
Andrew Owens
(WM-AU committee general member)
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] official wiki

[Andrew]

PM, things are decided on Wikimedia Australia by committee, not consensus -
this isn't Wikipedia. And I've had a few financial members write to me or
chat with me since this debate of sorts opened with concerns similar to
Craig's re observations on WM-UK - basically saying the committee members
would end up wasting their time dealing with silliness on the Wiki rather
than stuff we need to do to grow the chapter. As one said, and I think they
won't mind me quoting, "this is navel-gazing".

I have some other semi-related comments but I'll make a new thread for those
as I doubt too many are reading this one at this point.

cheers
Andrew

2009/12/13 private musings 

> Having open editing for accounts only sounds great to me :-)
> If this idea could gain consensus, and get done by christmas I think that
> would be wonderful :-)
> cheers,
> Peter,
> PM.
>
> On Sun, Dec 13, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Craig Franklin  wrote:
>
>>  I think that presenting editing access to the chapter wiki as a
>> “benefit” of membership is a bit silly really.  When I spruik membership to
>> potential members, “the ability to edit our wiki!” doesn’t even register on
>> the things I tell them.
>>
>>
>>
>> Perhaps a compromise between the “no access for non-members” and “open
>> access” viewpoints is in order.  We could open access to everyone, provided
>> they had an account.  Accounts would still need to be approved by someone to
>> weed out spam bots and the like (having managed a public-facing Wiki, I know
>> that this is often a serious problem), and perhaps the accounts of
>> non-members could be sequestered into the user space or something.  If you
>> look at Wikimedia UK’s “Recent Changes” page, there is a lot of rubbish
>> there that their admins are having to spend their time cleaning up – frankly
>> I think our people have better things to do than play janitor on the chapter
>> wiki.
>>
>>
>>
>> I don’t know, apart from the whole “open philosophy”, I don’t see any real
>> reasons why anyone who is not a member would want to post on our Wiki, and
>> the fact that the Billabong is quiet… I don’t really see that as a problem
>> since most of the communication and discussion occurs on this list, which is
>> essentially open to the public anyway.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Craig
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* wikimediaau-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:
>> wikimediaau-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] *On Behalf Of *Andrew
>> *Sent:* Saturday, 12 December 2009 9:38 AM
>> *To:* Wikimedia-au
>> *Subject:* Re: [Wikimediaau-l] official wiki
>>
>>
>>
>> At the end of the day, and I think this is a point that isn't well
>> understood because we have a foot on both sides of the border, this is the
>> official wiki for a non profit organisation. The wiki's set up in such a way
>> that those that are willing to support the aims of the organisation can edit
>> freely. I don't know of any other similar organisations which offer open
>> editing or participation - one I know that runs meetings for its members
>> (and this is just networking!) charges $10 for non-members to attend a
>> meeting; another runs closed email lists that non-members can't even see.
>>
>> As for the argument re vandalism - that isn't even our biggest prospective
>> problem. The biggest is actually misrepresentation - the risk that we will
>> be discredited as an organisation in the eyes of those we seek to build
>> partnerships with. In the relatively insular world of free culture, edginess
>> seems like a good thing, but in the real world, quite apart from our legal
>> and other obligations with CAV, we have to deal with businesses, large
>> organisations, governments, NGOs and the like. We're competing for their
>> attention with more professional outfits which can offer them something.
>> We're asking them to give us something - which requires a standard of
>> credibility and professionalism. If random chaos is unfolding on our
>> official website (and that is what it is), we have a bit of a problem in
>> that area. Expecting already busy committee members (and I'm not even
>> speaking for myself here) to monitor the wiki in such circumstances is an
>> imposition on them and a completely unnecessary one - what do we stand to
>> benefit from it, as against the costs?
>>
>> cheers
>> Andrew
>>
>> 2009/12/12 Peter Halasz 
>>
>> Sarah,
>>
>> The only actual reason you've given for not opening up the wiki to
>> non

Re: [Wikimediaau-l] open wikis for chapters....?

[Andrew]

I think the post at
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaau-l/2009-December/002764.htmlencapsulates
quite well the sort of challenges that chapter websites face
which, for example, Wikipedia does not. The fact of legal registration makes
anarchy (even structured anarchy) an undesirable option and would mean we
are not acting in the best interests of our members who have bothered to
commit to and support the chapter's aims financially and expect the chapter
to act responsibly.

There is no conflict between the Foundation's aims and our approach; there
is, however, a conflict between what I might call "Wikiphilosophy" and the
requirements of running a chapter. Imagine the chapter accounts being
determined by consensus! Applying one model to a situation other than for
what it was intended is usually a recipe for disaster.

I would also note based on the discussions and on earlier committee
deliberations that there's no serious likelihood of the Australian chapter
changing its current policy on this at this time. It's worth highlighting
that one does not need to be a member to contribute to wikimediaau-l,
collaborate in person or virtually on projects or attend city-based meetups
(other than the AGM).

cheers
Andrew

2009/12/12 private musings 

> G'day all,
> over on the wikimedia au mailing list, we've been having a discussion about
> whether or not our 'official wiki' should be able to be edited by more than
> just the current financial members (I think we've got around 30 - 50 members
> at the mo) ( see
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaau-l/2009-December/002745.htmlfor
>  the thread, and it sort of gets just a little bit heated)
> I thought I'd flick this list a note because the tensions between the
> foundation's aims and this more pragmatic decision have been discussed. What
> I'd like to ask this list's members is whether or not you agree that open
> editing is a good thing, and as many pages as possible on a chapter's wiki
> should be open to as many folk as possible?
> Obviously there are important factors to keep in mind in making these
> decisions, but I feel it would be useful for others not quite so connected
> to 'WMAU', but with a close connection to WMF in general, if they have a
> moment, to review our thread, and offer feedback and ideas as to whether
> we're doing it right, or (as I feel) we really should open up the wiki a bit
> more :-)
> best,
> Peter,
> PM.
>
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] official wiki

[Andrew]

That is called "framing the question". Of course *that* kind of
participation would be unproblematic. But let's not forget the minutes,
resolutions and official activities of the chapter are hosted there, along
with our Statement of Purpose and etc. Like I said, as a non-profit
organisation we have obligations both to the membership and to the registry
(CAV in our case), and those who visit our site should be able to trust what
they read as far as it pertains to our organisation and its activities.

2009/12/12 Peter Halasz 

> You think that by opening the wiki up to users with autoconfirmed
> email addresses, so that they might put themselves down as attending
> an event, we are at risk of being "misrepresented" and "discredited"?
>
> I'm sorry I'm not bothering to participate in this conversation any longer.
>
> Peter Halasz
> User:Pengo
>
> On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Andrew  wrote:
> > At the end of the day, and I think this is a point that isn't well
> > understood because we have a foot on both sides of the border, this is
> the
> > official wiki for a non profit organisation. The wiki's set up in such a
> way
> > that those that are willing to support the aims of the organisation can
> edit
> > freely. I don't know of any other similar organisations which offer open
> > editing or participation - one I know that runs meetings for its members
> > (and this is just networking!) charges $10 for non-members to attend a
> > meeting; another runs closed email lists that non-members can't even see.
> >
> > As for the argument re vandalism - that isn't even our biggest
> prospective
> > problem. The biggest is actually misrepresentation - the risk that we
> will
> > be discredited as an organisation in the eyes of those we seek to build
> > partnerships with. In the relatively insular world of free culture,
> edginess
> > seems like a good thing, but in the real world, quite apart from our
> legal
> > and other obligations with CAV, we have to deal with businesses, large
> > organisations, governments, NGOs and the like. We're competing for their
> > attention with more professional outfits which can offer them something.
> > We're asking them to give us something - which requires a standard of
> > credibility and professionalism. If random chaos is unfolding on our
> > official website (and that is what it is), we have a bit of a problem in
> > that area. Expecting already busy committee members (and I'm not even
> > speaking for myself here) to monitor the wiki in such circumstances is an
> > imposition on them and a completely unnecessary one - what do we stand to
> > benefit from it, as against the costs?
> >
> > cheers
> > Andrew
> >
> > 2009/12/12 Peter Halasz 
> >>
> >> Sarah,
> >>
> >> The only actual reason you've given for not opening up the wiki to
> >> non-members is because of fear of vandalism.
> >>
> >> Ok, so we have a problem: Potential vandalism.
> >>
> >> Solutions?
> >>
> >> 1. Actually observe actual vandalism before locking anything down.
> >> 2. Assign a couple of people to patrolling recent changes once a week
> >> 3. Locking individual pages when we require their integrity to be
> >> preserved.
> >> 4. Requiring wiki users to sign in
> >> 5. Requiring new wiki users to wait 3 days before editing
> >> 6. Banning everyone but paid members, who, after paying their
> >> membership, can apply for an account, which, when it expires, is no
> >> longer allowed to edit.
> >>
> >> C'mon, seriously? You went with #6? To combat vandalism?
> >>
> >> Although, as you say, we CAN keep the wiki locked up, why SHOULD we?
> >> And why with such tight control?
> >>
> >> Peter Halasz.
> >> User:Pengo
> >> (Lapsed member)
> >>
> >> ___
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> >> Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
> >
> >
> > ___
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> >
> >
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] official wiki

[Andrew]

(Note that my comments above are addressed to a hypothetical situation of
open editing, not the current situation which is manageable by any objective
standard.)

2009/12/12 Andrew 

> At the end of the day, and I think this is a point that isn't well
> understood because we have a foot on both sides of the border, this is the
> official wiki for a non profit organisation. The wiki's set up in such a way
> that those that are willing to support the aims of the organisation can edit
> freely. I don't know of any other similar organisations which offer open
> editing or participation - one I know that runs meetings for its members
> (and this is just networking!) charges $10 for non-members to attend a
> meeting; another runs closed email lists that non-members can't even see.
>
> As for the argument re vandalism - that isn't even our biggest prospective
> problem. The biggest is actually misrepresentation - the risk that we will
> be discredited as an organisation in the eyes of those we seek to build
> partnerships with. In the relatively insular world of free culture, edginess
> seems like a good thing, but in the real world, quite apart from our legal
> and other obligations with CAV, we have to deal with businesses, large
> organisations, governments, NGOs and the like. We're competing for their
> attention with more professional outfits which can offer them something.
> We're asking them to give us something - which requires a standard of
> credibility and professionalism. If random chaos is unfolding on our
> official website (and that is what it is), we have a bit of a problem in
> that area. Expecting already busy committee members (and I'm not even
> speaking for myself here) to monitor the wiki in such circumstances is an
> imposition on them and a completely unnecessary one - what do we stand to
> benefit from it, as against the costs?
>
> cheers
> Andrew
>
> 2009/12/12 Peter Halasz 
>
> Sarah,
>>
>> The only actual reason you've given for not opening up the wiki to
>> non-members is because of fear of vandalism.
>>
>> Ok, so we have a problem: Potential vandalism.
>>
>> Solutions?
>>
>> 1. Actually observe actual vandalism before locking anything down.
>> 2. Assign a couple of people to patrolling recent changes once a week
>> 3. Locking individual pages when we require their integrity to be
>> preserved.
>> 4. Requiring wiki users to sign in
>> 5. Requiring new wiki users to wait 3 days before editing
>> 6. Banning everyone but paid members, who, after paying their
>> membership, can apply for an account, which, when it expires, is no
>> longer allowed to edit.
>>
>> C'mon, seriously? You went with #6? To combat vandalism?
>>
>> Although, as you say, we CAN keep the wiki locked up, why SHOULD we?
>> And why with such tight control?
>>
>> Peter Halasz.
>> User:Pengo
>> (Lapsed member)
>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
>>
>
>
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] official wiki

[Andrew]

At the end of the day, and I think this is a point that isn't well
understood because we have a foot on both sides of the border, this is the
official wiki for a non profit organisation. The wiki's set up in such a way
that those that are willing to support the aims of the organisation can edit
freely. I don't know of any other similar organisations which offer open
editing or participation - one I know that runs meetings for its members
(and this is just networking!) charges $10 for non-members to attend a
meeting; another runs closed email lists that non-members can't even see.

As for the argument re vandalism - that isn't even our biggest prospective
problem. The biggest is actually misrepresentation - the risk that we will
be discredited as an organisation in the eyes of those we seek to build
partnerships with. In the relatively insular world of free culture, edginess
seems like a good thing, but in the real world, quite apart from our legal
and other obligations with CAV, we have to deal with businesses, large
organisations, governments, NGOs and the like. We're competing for their
attention with more professional outfits which can offer them something.
We're asking them to give us something - which requires a standard of
credibility and professionalism. If random chaos is unfolding on our
official website (and that is what it is), we have a bit of a problem in
that area. Expecting already busy committee members (and I'm not even
speaking for myself here) to monitor the wiki in such circumstances is an
imposition on them and a completely unnecessary one - what do we stand to
benefit from it, as against the costs?

cheers
Andrew

2009/12/12 Peter Halasz 

> Sarah,
>
> The only actual reason you've given for not opening up the wiki to
> non-members is because of fear of vandalism.
>
> Ok, so we have a problem: Potential vandalism.
>
> Solutions?
>
> 1. Actually observe actual vandalism before locking anything down.
> 2. Assign a couple of people to patrolling recent changes once a week
> 3. Locking individual pages when we require their integrity to be
> preserved.
> 4. Requiring wiki users to sign in
> 5. Requiring new wiki users to wait 3 days before editing
> 6. Banning everyone but paid members, who, after paying their
> membership, can apply for an account, which, when it expires, is no
> longer allowed to edit.
>
> C'mon, seriously? You went with #6? To combat vandalism?
>
> Although, as you say, we CAN keep the wiki locked up, why SHOULD we?
> And why with such tight control?
>
> Peter Halasz.
> User:Pengo
> (Lapsed member)
>
> ___
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] official wiki

[Andrew]

Re planning activities - there doesn't seem much evidence of the meetup
pages being used for planning of any kind at present. Most of the meetup
pages are deadzones, with only Sydney having any recent editing activity
whatsoever (Melbourne and Canberra both show their August meetups as being
"next" rather than "last").

The problem we have is that we're still very much in the outreach phase and
do not yet have critical mass, so discussing events (beyond planning them)
in areas where people are unlikely to find them is somewhat
counterproductive.

I'm not in favour of open editing simply because it is, and should be, a
membership benefit - it is after all our official wiki and announcement
area. I'm not opposed to individuals being granted access from outside when
it suits our purposes to do so - eg our partners in GLAM and elsewhere, or
any other official collaborations which explicitly pull in non-Wikimedians.

cheers
Andrew

2009/12/11 Liam Wyatt 

> I too would like to see the chapter wiki being used more, especially for
> planning IRL events.
> Perhaps the issue is not so much that the "Billabong" isn't the right place
> but that (as mentioned) it's not used by many people as yet - this is
> largely a factor of the relatively low number of people who are allowed to
> edit. Currently editing rights on the Australian chapter wiki are restricted
> to members. I note that the UK chapter's wiki
> <http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page>allows IP editing (though not on
> the mainpage) whilst the other English language chapter (NYC) focuses their
> attention on the meta-wiki 
> page<http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_New_York_City>(which is also 
> open for IP editing).
>
> Given this discussion is happening on the wikimedia-au list, rather than
> the members'-only list, perhaps it is pertinent to ask: would the
> subscribers to this list be more willing to become involved with the
> Australian chapter's wiki, events, and eventually perhaps also join the
> chapter if the Wiki was open for at least logged-in editing from all people?
>
> One advantage of this would be that we could centralise discussion about
> planning activities in Australia on the Australian chapter's wiki rather
> than having to split it across Wikipedia's meetup pages. One disadvantage of
> this would be that one of the promoted benefits of membership (being able to
> edit the wiki) is no longer exclusive.
>
> From a personal point of view, I believe that increasing the editability of
> the chapter wiki will increase the number and range of things happening in
> Australia and therefore become a driver of membership and activity. But, I'd
> like to hear what the current non-members think.
>
> -Liam
> (yes, I'm a member)
>
> wittylama.com/blog
> Peace, love & metadata
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 11:38 AM, Sarah Ewart wrote:
>
>> I assume it's the same with our wiki though I haven't actually checked
>> myself, but usually editing the MediaWiki interface pages requires admin
>> rights. We really don't want people stuffing around at will with the main
>> interface. I also agree with Andrew about the Billabong page. It's meant to
>> be a page where people can make suggestions and ask for help or whatever and
>> we don't want to make it harder for people to find the central
>> discussion/help page if they need it. I don't see how it not being used much
>> makes a difference. There's only a small number of people who even have
>> accounts with edit rights and the website is still very young so you could
>> justify removing just about all the sidebar links by saying they're "not
>> currently used much". As Andrew said, we want to build the membership and as
>> the active members grow the central discussion page will become more useful
>> and important and in the interim it's there for anyone who needs it.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 9:20 PM, Andrew  wrote:
>>
>>> I don't think it's a good idea to remove it - we want to get more member
>>> participation happening in 2010, and there simply wasn't the scope for that
>>> in 2009, hence why it wasn't utilised.
>>>
>>> cheers
>>> Andrew
>>>
>>> 2009/12/11 K. Peachey 
>>>
>>> Yes it is possible to edit it, for details:
>>>> " To edit the navigation menu on the left, edit
>>>> [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] using its special syntax. For more details, see
>>>> <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Interface/Sidebar>."
>>>>
>>>&

Re: [Wikimediaau-l] official wiki

[Andrew]

I don't think it's a good idea to remove it - we want to get more member
participation happening in 2010, and there simply wasn't the scope for that
in 2009, hence why it wasn't utilised.

cheers
Andrew

2009/12/11 K. Peachey 

> Yes it is possible to edit it, for details:
> " To edit the navigation menu on the left, edit
> [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] using its special syntax. For more details, see
> <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Interface/Sidebar>."
>
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[Wikimediaau-l] Interesting article

[Andrew]

http://www.theage.com.au/technology/technology-news/yes-minister-tweeting-could-be-the-new-way-of-working-20091208-kfk3.html

While I disagree with the premise of the article, there's a very interesting
side story, starting from the fifth paragraph, in there about copyright over
government information which should be of interest to Wikimedia members and
volunteers.

cheers
Andrew
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[Wikimediaau-l] WMAU wikis migrated

[Andrew Garrett]

Hi all,

Our Wikimedia Australia wikis are now migrated to our new, faster and better 
hosting. This should happen over the next few hours as DNS caches expire.

If you experience any issues, please let me know. The wikis have been put into 
read-only mode at the old location to ensure a smooth transition.

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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] AGM report

[Andrew Garrett]

On 02/12/2009, at 12:01 PM, Liam Wyatt wrote:

> Another thing is the use of the geo-ip notice. There is no codified policy 
> about how/when it should be deployed, but if there's an event (e.g. Wikipedia 
> day celebratory dinner) then that should be reason enough to justify the use 
> in the Perth IP ranges. 
> 
> We used it in Sydney to announce the meetup when Jennifer Riggs and Mathias 
> Schindler would be there - approximately half of the people were longtime 
> wikimedians who didn't know about the chapter/meetup/in-real-life activities. 
> Effectively, just the kind of people we should be trying to attract to 
> meetups :-)

In general the way the GeoIP stuff is not well set up or documented.

I've put some very simple instructions for using geonotice on Wikipedia at 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Werdna/How_to_use_Geonotices

Hopefully this will get some more relevant Australian geo-notices in place for 
meetups, AGMs, invitations to join chapters, and whatever else :)

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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] AGM report

[Andrew]

We get an average of 12 turning up these days to our ad hoc wikimeetups...
although we've previously attempted to recruit them and failed. With a
WM-specific project going in Perth (I'm certainly going to try for it) we
may have more success.

cheers
Andrew

2009/12/2 Peter Jeremy 

> On 2009-Dec-02 10:28:29 +, David Gerard  wrote:
> >Of course, that's difficult in Perth, whose defining characteristic is
> >that it's 1500 miles from anywhere - and the "anywhere" in question is
> >Adelaide ...
>
> Darwin is in a similar situation if you take 'anywhere' to mean
> anywhere in Australia.
>
> >I'm not sure what to suggest. Advertise more widely? Attract the
> >general public? (That'd be interesting!)
>
> Depending on what is being planned, attracting the general public
> may be useful - you might score a few new editors.
>
> > Do you have a list of
> >Perth-resident Wikimedians, to have some idea of the potential if
> >everyone showed up?
>
> There are 42 names in Category:Wikipedians_in_Perth.  That won't be an
> exhaustive list.
>
> The Sydney page has a section where interested people can ask to be
> contacted for future meetups [1] - there are currently 25 names on it,
> which is 11% of the people in Category:Wikipedians_in_Sydney.  Something
> similar might be useful to gauge interest in Perth.
>
> Looking through attendees at the previous meetups could also be useful
>
> [1]
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/Sydney#Interested_in_future_meetups
>
> --
> Peter Jeremy
>
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] AGM report

[Andrew]

Agreed with Sarah. Here in Perth we have just three and I think I'm the only
one able to edit the wiki, so it might get a bit lonely :(

Also, re regular meetups - I had the experience with no less than three
Perth groups that over time, the meetup becomes unsustainable as the numbers
dwindle over time, people have lives and so they assume others will make up
the numbers this time because they had something on, then fall out of the
habit of going. Also finding a time to have it when everyone can make it is
also problematic as people have jobs, families and other commitments. It may
be a phenomenon that's much worse in Perth than elsewhere, but it makes
sense that it would have at least some universal aspect.

The only groups with regular meetings that I know of that work are
professional associations as they actually offer something in return, such
as "points" which help to maintain one's professional status just for
attending.

Hence the sort of negotiated timing, while it makes for fewer and more
random meetups, does work better as it picks times when people can make it,
and gets their commitment ahead of time to it.

cheers
Andrew

2009/12/2 Sarah Ewart 

> I agree with what Peter Jeremy said. I don't mind there being a
> supplementary meetup page on the chapter site, but it seems rather
> superfluous, redundant and unnecessary. At present only 22 (or less than
> half) current members have accounts which means that only a very small
> number of Australian Wikimedians can even edit the Wiki, so it strikes me as
> very redundant to be organising anything but official chapter events on the
> website and I think it is better to continue to focus on organising regular
> meetups which aren't chapter events on the WP meetup pages (or perhaps
> meta).
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 12:27 AM, Andrew  wrote:
>
>> Indeed - I'm of the view that meetups of the community are parallel to but
>> not part of WM-AU. There's no harm in advertising them on WM-Au so
>> non-Wikipedians at least see them, but the main interest will come from home
>> projects on WP most likely.
>>
>> cheers
>> Andrew
>>
>> 2009/12/1 Gnangarra 
>>
>>
>>>
>>> 2009/12/1 Peter Jeremy 
>>>
>>> On 2009-Nov-30 10:42:49 +1100, private musings 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >that here in Sydney, we're shooting for one more mini-meetup before
>>>> >christmas,
>>>>
>>>> I think this might be being hopeful.
>>>>
>>>> > it would be great to get as many folk along as possible, and on a
>>>> >related note, I've just created http://wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Meetupsto see
>>>> >if a centralised meetup area on the 'official' wiki might help - please
>>>> do
>>>> >add info. from other states as appropriate :-)
>>>>
>>>> IMHO, the major downside of moving the local meetups page to the
>>>> WM-AU server is that only WM-AU members have editing rights.  This
>>>> means that people who aren't members, for whatever reason, aren't
>>>> able to comment.  My feeling is that this will discourage people.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Having a meetup page for WM-au organised events is fine but it should not
>>> be seen or promoted as a replacement to/of Wikipedia meetups organised by
>>> local editors
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Peter Jeremy
>>>>
>>>> ___
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> GN.
>>> http://gnangarra.redbubble.com/
>>>
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>>>
>>
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>
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Meet-up arrangements

[Andrew Garrett]

On 01/12/2009, at 11:50 AM, Gnangarra wrote:
> Having a meetup page for WM-au organised events is fine but it should not be 
> seen or promoted as a replacement to/of Wikipedia meetups organised by local 
> editors

I'm fine with Wikimedia Australia co-ordinating and mediating some meet-ups, so 
long as:
* There is an appropriate mixture of "working" meetings where we have 
structured discussion, "social" meet-ups where the locals get together and have 
a chat, and "outreach" meetups where we are primarily aiming to meet up with 
local folks from other organisations. This is one thing I've noticed with 
chapter-organised meet-ups compared to community-organised meet-ups — they tend 
to be more "serious". There is immense value in simple regular social 
gatherings of local community members.
* There is not undue influence being exerted, and the community is free to do 
its own organisation of meet-ups in the same space. That is, if the Wikimedia 
Australia site is to become an organising point for meet-ups, then WMAU should 
not have a monopoly on meet-ups arranged there.

One thing I like that I've found with the London meet-ups is that they have a 
set place and time (the second Sunday of each month, in the Penderel's Oak in 
Holborn). It might be nice to arrange something similar for the larger (or 
indeed smaller) Australian cities. Of course, attendance at every meet-up is 
not compulsory, but it makes meet-ups predictable and regular, rather than the 
"when Privatemusings feels like arranging one" system we have going right now 
(at least in Sydney).

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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] AGM report

[Andrew]

Indeed - I'm of the view that meetups of the community are parallel to but
not part of WM-AU. There's no harm in advertising them on WM-Au so
non-Wikipedians at least see them, but the main interest will come from home
projects on WP most likely.

cheers
Andrew

2009/12/1 Gnangarra 

>
>
> 2009/12/1 Peter Jeremy 
>
> On 2009-Nov-30 10:42:49 +1100, private musings 
>> wrote:
>> >that here in Sydney, we're shooting for one more mini-meetup before
>> >christmas,
>>
>> I think this might be being hopeful.
>>
>> > it would be great to get as many folk along as possible, and on a
>> >related note, I've just created http://wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Meetups to
>> see
>> >if a centralised meetup area on the 'official' wiki might help - please
>> do
>> >add info. from other states as appropriate :-)
>>
>> IMHO, the major downside of moving the local meetups page to the
>> WM-AU server is that only WM-AU members have editing rights.  This
>> means that people who aren't members, for whatever reason, aren't
>> able to comment.  My feeling is that this will discourage people.
>>
>
> Having a meetup page for WM-au organised events is fine but it should not
> be seen or promoted as a replacement to/of Wikipedia meetups organised by
> local editors
>
>
>
>
>>
>> --
>> Peter Jeremy
>>
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>>
>
>
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] fixing wmau wiki

[Andrew Garrett]

On 30/11/2009, at 12:52 PM, Brianna Laugher wrote:

> 2009/11/30 Tim Starling :
>> I'm sure he could fix it if he had the inclination. He, however, is not
>> the one who's offerring.
> 
> Apparently he developed the inclination. History tab is fixed.

My sincere apologies for the delay on this. I know I've been nagged about it 
before, but usually I've been in the middle of something at the time and 
forgotten by the time I've sorted that out. I have honestly thought for the 
last few weeks that the major outstanding tech issue has been moving the sites 
to our new hosting.

Since the problem is my own lack of organisation, I'm going to set up a bug 
tracker where these issues can be tracked somewhere other than in my head and 
in the heads of various annoyed community members. When this is finished, I 
will send a link to this list, so that I don't forget about these things.

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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Improving membership

[Andrew]

The main problem I found in Perth is that people just do not want to join
something that they don't feel part of, that they see as remote. I am in
fact the only person who was a member at both 2008-09 and 2009-10 AGMs - we
lost four members during the year, although we gained two so I'm not all
lonely over here.

What we need to do I think is (just off the top of my head, so this isn't
too refined)

* For areas where we have members (preferably two or more), they come up
with a project idea. e.g. the local museum, library, whatever.
* We talk to the people or groups that had successful strategies
(Powerhouse, QM, various others), and talk to them about what worked
* The Committee makes a list of the sorts of things we can say, sorts of
things we can't say based on our constitution, mission and any legal or
other constraints. Make sure we promote our mission, while not promising
anything we can't deliver.
* Create an area on the Wiki that each can use for collaboration, and a
central page for discussion and questions
* Link up with CC and other like minded places to get more local people on
board
* Each group then goes to try and get their project happening
* We celebrate their successes when and where they occur, and provide
encouragement for those who need it (some will come easy due to cooperation
on the other side but others will hit brick walls or maybe even need to get
new projects, that's a given)

This way we have a multi-pronged, member-driven pathway of "getting runs on
the board" in various areas around Australia which can then be used to
expand membership and interest in the chapter. We won't be seen as overly
focused on the major cities as we'll have little lights going on all over
the country, possibly in some quite unexpected places.

What do others think about this sort of strategy?

cheers
Andrew

2009/11/30 Lloyd Nguyen 

> As with the folks in Sydney, in Brisbane we talked a bit after the AGM
> as well, particularly about membership. I was wondering if we could
> perhaps do some brainstorming for ways to improve our membership.
> Keeping everyone engaged would help make the registration fee feel
> worth it.
>
> Aside from holding more meetups, one of the ideas we threw around was
> having some sort of photo scavenger hunt, similar to what Wikimedia
> New York has done. We also wondered about the reasons why people would
> leave, as well, so creating an exit survey of sorts could be a good
> idea. Regular surveys, in general, would help, as well.
>
> Does anyone else have any ideas on types of events, and such? If not,
> even just organising a meetup for your local area/state/whatever would
> be great.
>
> 2009/11/30 private musings :
> > G'day all,
> >
> > Congrat.s are also due to all elected folk (details at
> > http://wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Committee ) - and following the business
> end of
> > the meeting, in Sydney we discussed things like getting organised for a
> > 'Wikipedia Day' in January (it's the site's 9th birthday you know -
> heading
> > rapidly for double figures!), as well as trying to expand membership, and
> > have regular (monthly?) events / meetups to try and keep membership
> engaged,
> > informed, and excited!
> >
> > I believe the committee are getting organised to meet in person in the
> new
> > year, and no doubt we'll hear more good stuff anon... but for now, just a
> > sincere 'well done' to the folk involved in organising the AGM, and a
> note
> > that here in Sydney, we're shooting for one more mini-meetup before
> > christmas, it would be great to get as many folk along as possible, and
> on a
> > related note, I've just created http://wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Meetups to
> see
> > if a centralised meetup area on the 'official' wiki might help - please
> do
> > add info. from other states as appropriate :-)
> >
> > cheers,
> >
> > Peter,
> > PM.
> >
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> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
> >
> >
>
>
> --
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> lloyd.ngu...@uqconnect.edu.au
>
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Australian Featured Content

[Andrew]

I personally think it's not putting our best foot forward - I don't think
any of our PM articles are of a particularly high standard and at least two
of them are the subject of constant bickering. Also it's got very little
relation to Wikimedia Australia.

My personal suggestion would be the QM work that recently got uploaded to
Commons, as that was a direct product of our members' hard work in the
field. It would also serve as an encouragement to other members (and I'm
certainly going to try for something here in WA) to get more runs on the
board.

cheers
Andrew

2009/11/30 private musings 

> We've featured wiki source for getting on for 6 months now, so I think it's
> probably time to change the front page of official wiki - what do people
> think about demonstrating the 'book' feature of english wikipedia for a
> while?
>
> I'm thinking of a 'Prime Ministers of Australia' book specifically, because
> I see both Mark Hurd and I have previously created one (great minds, and all
> that!) - it would be great for the 'featured content' to change roughly
> monthly, so if there's no objection, I'll just go ahead later in the week,
> and get something up :-)
>
> cheers,
>
> Peter,
> PM.
>
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Bidding for Wikimania 2012

[Andrew]

I hope my previous posts were not seen as a desire to stop developing bids.

My emphasis was more on chapter or national support for a bid, which can
only come through dialogue and working together. As someone who, no matter
where it is held, will have to travel a long way to go there to support it,
I'd actually like the opportunity to measure up well-crafted bids and see
how they compare and ask questions of the bid teams before offering my
support, and I'm sure a fair number of Wikimedians are in the same
situation. Favouring a potential bid from one city from the outset without
considering the wider picture (i.e. where is the best place to host it? what
resources do we have? etc) risks alienating key stakeholders and also risks
the chance of success of the bid / event, and our reputation with it if we
tie our colours to the mast.

Furthermore it shouldn't be forgotten that the chapter's foundational goal -
its raison d'etre - is to promote and facilitate free cultural works.
GLAM-WIKI was an excellent start to this. Other stuff - NLA, ABS etc - is
happening around us as well, those are all positive developments. The
Powerhouse Museum and Queensland Museum, which our chapter's members
directly facilitated, are two more great examples. We have many in the GLAM
sector and even some key senators and members of the Gov 2.0 taskforce on
side. That progress needs to be consolidated.

2009/11/26 Gnangarra 

> The BES people were actively canvassing us for the possabillity of a bid
> from Sydney. Australia will only get one opportunity in the next 5
> years(more likely 10) to host a Wikimania we need to maximise the opporunity
> for locals to attend . I see nothing wrong with starting a sydney bid page
> especially given that there is specific interest from the convention
> industry and we are gathering much needed information/experience/knowledge
> anyway. One thing that Canberra/GLAM-Wiki did show was that without outside
> assistance(AWM, Dictionary of Sydney, WMF) we didnt have the resources to
> host a small scale national event. Another experience which the committee
> was also able to learn is that the WM-au committee can only do so much but
> without a highly dedicated local organiser(or group) the outcome is going to
> much different. From what I'm seeing we have Liam, Angela with BES support
> working towards Sydney 2011/2012, there is no reason for them to stop
> developing a bid from Sydney nor is there any barrier for another location
> to also submit a bid. WM-au should be supportive of all bids even if there
> is more than one Australian city bidding because which ever is successful
> the members are the ones that will benefit, also because WM-au members arent
> just from Sydney nor Melbourne but right across the country the committee
> should be working to get the best possible outcomes for all members that
> outcome is a Wikimania in Australia.
>
> 2009/11/26 Stephen Bain 
>
> On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 11:45 PM, Andrew  wrote:
>> >
>> > I think some discussion would need to be entered as to which city would
>> be
>> > best. The city with our greatest number of volunteers - and certainly
>> the
>> > most accessible city from a national/international point of view - is
>> > Melbourne. I don't know what venues are available in that city, though.
>>
>> In some preliminary investigations a couple of years ago I checked out
>> the University of Melbourne (my university). It has a wide selection
>> of lecture theatres etc for hosting the sessions (most being wired for
>> audio recording already, and some for video), and between semesters
>> rooms in the colleges are available for rent at pretty reasonable
>> prices - this would suit a bulk order of accommodation. The campus is
>> also close to the city and other accommodation.
>>
>> --
>> Stephen Bain
>> stephen.b...@gmail.com
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> GN.
> http://gnangarra.redbubble.com/
>
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Bidding for Wikimania 2012

[Andrew]

Just a note re the above:

> The Chapter committee gave me permission/support to meet with and canvas
ideas with BES on an in-principle basis.

> Subsequently to the first meeting, I sought committee approval to bring
Angela into the discussions too.

> permission has been sought from the Chapter committee for this early
discussion.

I don't mean to be annoying here, but I think we need to be very careful
about these kinds of statements.

As an observer member of the committee, I can say with moderate certainty
that the committee never resolved nor approved anything. There are no
meeting minutes or resolutions covering it, and looking at the comm list
emails, I would say a more correct statement was that the committee were
notified of it, and that the committee did not oppose or object.

regards
Andrew
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Bidding for Wikimania 2012

[Andrew]

An afterthought: The above, of course, leaves out Canberra, Perth and
Adelaide, all of which have centres of Wikimedian activity and all of which
would be capable of hosting such an event in terms of venues. I remember a
few of us having some discussions with PCEC when there was some talk of a
Perth bid being mounted.

2009/11/26 Andrew 

> I wouldn't doubt that other places have managed to get off the ground
> without active chapter support, but the fact is that the Australian
> Wikimedian community is actually fairly small and the great majority of
> those (including the membership of any likely bid team) who would support
> such an event are involved in the chapter.
>
> We have around 45 financial members at present. From what I heard, huge
> numbers of local people were involved in getting Taipei off the ground - our
> distributed and relatively small population means we don't have that at our
> disposal here. Taiwan is 1/3 the area of Tasmania with a population greater
> than Australia's. Getting people in from other parts of Australia, as
> GLAM-WIKI proved, can be quite a challenge as we got I think 15-18
> Wikimedians along to that.
>
> I think some discussion would need to be entered as to which city would be
> best. The city with our greatest number of volunteers - and certainly the
> most accessible city from a national/international point of view - is
> Melbourne. I don't know what venues are available in that city, though.
> Sydney and Brisbane have both made enquiries from bid promoters and venues,
> and the Brisbane Wikimania bid was a strong one (and I believe its sponsors
> are still on side). If we're all focusing in different directions then
> people get territorial over cities, the Wikimedian group doesn't get united
> behind one bid and it will necessarily fail.
>
> All just my own opinion of course. I do agree with Delphine that in order
> to make an event successful, planning well in advance of time is essential -
> as they say if one fails to plan, one plans to fail.
>
> cheers
> Andrew
>
> 2009/11/26 Angela 
>
> > Have you got any official support from the chapter for this bid?
>>
>> As far as I'm aware, the chapter board has not said anything yet. My
>> hope is that making the first step of putting up a bid page will
>> generate some discussion amongst both the committee and members of
>> Wikimedia Australia and of the wider community in order to work out
>> whether this is the right thing to do and whether 2012 is the right
>> time.
>>
>> Hosting Wikimania in Australia been discussed for many years now, and
>> for me 2012 seems the ideal time for a bid. We've recently had a
>> successful GLAM-WIKI conference, proving there are enough people here
>> to make such an event work. It leaves us with all of 2010 and 2011 to
>> make preparations and to host other smaller events to help build up
>> the team prior to Wikimania in 2012.
>>
>> This is just the very first stage, and deliberately started early
>> (most 2011 bids aren't up yet) in order to allow a lot of discussion
>> and decision making. There's lots of time before anything needs to be
>> finalised for the chapter and its members to put forward their views
>> and to decide whether or not to support this.
>>
>> Angela
>>
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Bidding for Wikimania 2012

[Andrew]

I wouldn't doubt that other places have managed to get off the ground
without active chapter support, but the fact is that the Australian
Wikimedian community is actually fairly small and the great majority of
those (including the membership of any likely bid team) who would support
such an event are involved in the chapter.

We have around 45 financial members at present. From what I heard, huge
numbers of local people were involved in getting Taipei off the ground - our
distributed and relatively small population means we don't have that at our
disposal here. Taiwan is 1/3 the area of Tasmania with a population greater
than Australia's. Getting people in from other parts of Australia, as
GLAM-WIKI proved, can be quite a challenge as we got I think 15-18
Wikimedians along to that.

I think some discussion would need to be entered as to which city would be
best. The city with our greatest number of volunteers - and certainly the
most accessible city from a national/international point of view - is
Melbourne. I don't know what venues are available in that city, though.
Sydney and Brisbane have both made enquiries from bid promoters and venues,
and the Brisbane Wikimania bid was a strong one (and I believe its sponsors
are still on side). If we're all focusing in different directions then
people get territorial over cities, the Wikimedian group doesn't get united
behind one bid and it will necessarily fail.

All just my own opinion of course. I do agree with Delphine that in order to
make an event successful, planning well in advance of time is essential - as
they say if one fails to plan, one plans to fail.

cheers
Andrew

2009/11/26 Angela 

> > Have you got any official support from the chapter for this bid?
>
> As far as I'm aware, the chapter board has not said anything yet. My
> hope is that making the first step of putting up a bid page will
> generate some discussion amongst both the committee and members of
> Wikimedia Australia and of the wider community in order to work out
> whether this is the right thing to do and whether 2012 is the right
> time.
>
> Hosting Wikimania in Australia been discussed for many years now, and
> for me 2012 seems the ideal time for a bid. We've recently had a
> successful GLAM-WIKI conference, proving there are enough people here
> to make such an event work. It leaves us with all of 2010 and 2011 to
> make preparations and to host other smaller events to help build up
> the team prior to Wikimania in 2012.
>
> This is just the very first stage, and deliberately started early
> (most 2011 bids aren't up yet) in order to allow a lot of discussion
> and decision making. There's lots of time before anything needs to be
> finalised for the chapter and its members to put forward their views
> and to decide whether or not to support this.
>
> Angela
>
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] The A E "Bert" Roberts photograph collection

[Andrew]

(Ah, whoops, hadn't read the last two posts in the thread which explained
exactly what I did, somewhat better...)

2009/11/8 Andrew 

> The "copyfraud" argument is basically - in their view, the item is under PD
> already so it is unethical for museums etc to licence it under any terms at
> all as they don't "own" them.
>
> However what that argument doesnt acknowledge is that the material may be
> PD but the hosting and preservation of it is the key element (as we
> discussed at GLAM) and the museum are providing us with freely available
> *digital copies* which are, within the terms of the licence, freely
> available and reusable worldwide.
>
>
> 2009/11/7 Craig Franklin 
>
>> Hi Peter,
>>
>> Unfortunately the physical objects that the collection is based upon (the
>> glass plate negatives) are in a locked cupboard somewhere in the QM
>> warehouse, so the possibility of getting our hands on them and making our
>> own copies are fairly remote.
>>
>> I've deliberately worded the info in the infobox to be slightly ambiguous
>> - QM *claim* copyright on the digitisation (much the same as the NPG in the
>> UK), but there has not been a legal case here in Australia to my knowledge
>> or the knowledge of QM's copyright people to confirm whether the "sweat of
>> the brow" doctrine would hold up in an Australian court.  We only say that
>> QM "assert" copyright over the digitisation, not that we recognise that
>> particular claim.  And because the digitisation part is then released under
>> a free, acceptable licence, the whole shebang is fine to go on Commons.
>>
>> The images are tagged PD because they are unquestionably PD in the United
>> States, which is what really matters in this case, but it's worth mentioning
>> that there is a possible bit of CC-BY-SA-3.0 in there just so that nobody in
>> Australia or the UK gets caught out.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Craig
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wikimediaau-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:
>> wikimediaau-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Peter Ansell
>> Sent: Sunday, 8 November 2009 9:00 AM
>> To: Wikimedia-au
>> Subject: Re: [Wikimediaau-l] The A E "Bert" Roberts photograph collection
>>
>> Mmmm... I don't quite understand the technicalities involved, but they
>> are licensing it under CC-BY-SA so the outcome of the license is
>> definitely not a deletion candidate.
>>
>> In my naive opinion I might think the word copyfraud relates to the
>> use of a more limited license on a copy of a completely freely
>> available image. It does seem arbitrary to put on the extra
>> attribution/share alike clause just so the museum can be recognised as
>> "the digitiser" given that the museum doesn't technically have any
>> copyright/legal rights over the use of the original image unless they
>> do that.
>>
>> If an external institution wants to digitise PD images with strings
>> attached then people will wikilawyer about it. If the original image
>> is PD, could someone else get access to the PD image and provide a PD
>> digitised copy or would museums use their powers to restrict access to
>> an image just to keep the attribution aspect?
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Peter
>>
>> 2009/11/7 Craig Franklin :
>> > It might just be the fact that I’ve not yet had my morning coffee, but
>> under
>> > what grounds is he claiming it’s “copyfraud”?  This is the sort of thing
>> I
>> > was worried about, and pedantic wikilawyering like this is in my opinion
>> one
>> > of the main things that make external institutions nervous about working
>> > with us.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> >
>> > Craig F.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > From: wikimediaau-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org
>> > [mailto:wikimediaau-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Matt
>> inbgn
>> > Sent: Sunday, 8 November 2009 8:26 AM
>> > To: Wikimedia-au
>> > Subject: Re: [Wikimediaau-l] The A E "Bert" Roberts photograph
>> collection
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > This deletion discussion may be of some interest.
>> >
>> > Matt
>> >
>> > 2009/11/8 Andrew 
>> >
>> > indeed, fantastic effort :) I like the way in which it's been done -
>> i.e.
>> > they still have control over what gets released, but then anything they
>> > decide to release is publ

Re: [Wikimediaau-l] The A E "Bert" Roberts photograph collection

[Andrew]

The "copyfraud" argument is basically - in their view, the item is under PD
already so it is unethical for museums etc to licence it under any terms at
all as they don't "own" them.

However what that argument doesnt acknowledge is that the material may be PD
but the hosting and preservation of it is the key element (as we discussed
at GLAM) and the museum are providing us with freely available *digital
copies* which are, within the terms of the licence, freely available and
reusable worldwide.

2009/11/7 Craig Franklin 

> Hi Peter,
>
> Unfortunately the physical objects that the collection is based upon (the
> glass plate negatives) are in a locked cupboard somewhere in the QM
> warehouse, so the possibility of getting our hands on them and making our
> own copies are fairly remote.
>
> I've deliberately worded the info in the infobox to be slightly ambiguous -
> QM *claim* copyright on the digitisation (much the same as the NPG in the
> UK), but there has not been a legal case here in Australia to my knowledge
> or the knowledge of QM's copyright people to confirm whether the "sweat of
> the brow" doctrine would hold up in an Australian court.  We only say that
> QM "assert" copyright over the digitisation, not that we recognise that
> particular claim.  And because the digitisation part is then released under
> a free, acceptable licence, the whole shebang is fine to go on Commons.
>
> The images are tagged PD because they are unquestionably PD in the United
> States, which is what really matters in this case, but it's worth mentioning
> that there is a possible bit of CC-BY-SA-3.0 in there just so that nobody in
> Australia or the UK gets caught out.
>
> Cheers,
> Craig
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wikimediaau-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:
> wikimediaau-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Peter Ansell
> Sent: Sunday, 8 November 2009 9:00 AM
> To: Wikimedia-au
> Subject: Re: [Wikimediaau-l] The A E "Bert" Roberts photograph collection
>
> Mmmm... I don't quite understand the technicalities involved, but they
> are licensing it under CC-BY-SA so the outcome of the license is
> definitely not a deletion candidate.
>
> In my naive opinion I might think the word copyfraud relates to the
> use of a more limited license on a copy of a completely freely
> available image. It does seem arbitrary to put on the extra
> attribution/share alike clause just so the museum can be recognised as
> "the digitiser" given that the museum doesn't technically have any
> copyright/legal rights over the use of the original image unless they
> do that.
>
> If an external institution wants to digitise PD images with strings
> attached then people will wikilawyer about it. If the original image
> is PD, could someone else get access to the PD image and provide a PD
> digitised copy or would museums use their powers to restrict access to
> an image just to keep the attribution aspect?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Peter
>
> 2009/11/7 Craig Franklin :
> > It might just be the fact that I’ve not yet had my morning coffee, but
> under
> > what grounds is he claiming it’s “copyfraud”?  This is the sort of thing
> I
> > was worried about, and pedantic wikilawyering like this is in my opinion
> one
> > of the main things that make external institutions nervous about working
> > with us.
> >
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Craig F.
> >
> >
> >
> > From: wikimediaau-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org
> > [mailto:wikimediaau-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Matt
> inbgn
> > Sent: Sunday, 8 November 2009 8:26 AM
> > To: Wikimedia-au
> > Subject: Re: [Wikimediaau-l] The A E "Bert" Roberts photograph collection
> >
> >
> >
> > This deletion discussion may be of some interest.
> >
> > Matt
> >
> > 2009/11/8 Andrew 
> >
> > indeed, fantastic effort :) I like the way in which it's been done - i.e.
> > they still have control over what gets released, but then anything they
> > decide to release is public. Makes it a lot less scary for the GLAM.
> >
> > 2009/11/7 Gnangarra 
> >
> >
> >
> > the file http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Hearse-r.jpg has been
> added
> > to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearse#History there are some really
> > interesting image in the ones already uploaded thanks for your efforts
> Craig
> >
> >
> > 2009/11/6 Craig Franklin 
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> >
> >
> > I’m pleased to announce that based on some contacts that I made at the
> >

Re: [Wikimediaau-l] The A E "Bert" Roberts photograph collection

[Andrew]

indeed, fantastic effort :) I like the way in which it's been done - i.e.
they still have control over what gets released, but then anything they
decide to release is public. Makes it a lot less scary for the GLAM.

2009/11/7 Gnangarra 

> the file http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Hearse-r.jpg has been
> added to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearse#History there are some really
> interesting image in the ones already uploaded thanks for your efforts Craig
>
>
>
> 2009/11/6 Craig Franklin 
>
>>  Hi All,
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m pleased to announce that based on some contacts that I made at the
>> GLAM-WIKI conference back in August, and some onsite work that the Brisbane
>> Wikimedia community has been doing at the Queensland Museum (QM), the Museum
>> has commenced uploading digitized images from their “A E (Bert) Roberts”
>> photograph collection to Commons.  Bert Roberts was a coachbuilder from
>> Ipswich in the early 1900s , but also enjoyed photography and took
>> photographs of a wide variety of subjects, chiefly scenes of everyday life
>> in Queensland from the time.  While not famous for his photography during
>> his lifetime, after his death his collection of images came to be recognised
>> as providing a unique view into the society of the time.  His photographs
>> are the subject of a Queensland Museum exhibition, which chiefly resides at
>> their Toowoomba campus (the Cobb & Co Museum), but which presently has
>> travelled to Ipswich for a limited time.
>>
>>
>>
>> So far, 21 images have been uploaded to Commons, but there are over a
>> thousand glass plate negatives in total that the Museum has.  You can see
>> what’s been uploaded so far here:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:A_E_%22Bert%22_Roberts_plate_glass_photo_collection
>>
>>
>>
>> My request to all of you, basically, is to:
>>
>>
>>
>> · Categorise, enhance, and basically edit the file pages as much
>> as possible.
>>
>> · Look for appropriate pages on Wikipedia and other places where
>> this content can be used, and use it.
>>
>> · Spread the word that GLAM institutions are seeing the benefits
>> of making their collections available through Commons and other free media
>> repositories!
>>
>> · Watch out and make sure the pages aren’t vandalised, and any
>> problems that crop up are dealt with quickly so that QM can concentrate on
>> providing us with free content, and not learning arcane points of Wiki-law.
>>
>>
>>
>> Many of the original plate glass negatives held by the museum have not
>> been digitised yet, but if there is anyone who would be interested in
>> volunteering some of their time to learn how to do, and then actually **
>> do** the digitisation, there may be an opportunity to get in and do
>> that.  If you’re interested (and preferably have some “serious” photography
>> experience), let me know and I’ll pass your details on.
>>
>>
>>
>> It’s my hope that this will be but the first of many successful
>> collaborations between WMAU people and GLAM institutions throughout the
>> country.  I already have a couple of other collaborations cooking away here
>> in Queensland that will hopefully result in a win not only for the WM
>> projects, but also open access to cultural and heritage material in
>> general.
>>
>>
>>
>> If anyone has any questions regarding these particular images, please feel
>> free to ask me!
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Craig Franklin
>>
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>>
>
>
> --
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> http://gnangarra.redbubble.com/
>
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Three weeks 'till the AGM :-)

[Andrew]

It's Sunday 29th, for general info... I'd already asked that question :)

2009/11/6 private musings 

> Hi all,
>
> We're a day over three weeks away from the 2nd Wikimedia Australia AGM, so
> it's probably a good time to start filling in the red links here;
>
> http://wikimedia.org.au/wiki/2009-2010_AGM
>
> No doubt a few folk are still making up their minds etc. - but it'd be
> great to have a bit of an open discussion about the committee makeup for
> next year, and see who's planning on sticking their hands up to do which
> jobs! The committee is of course only one aspect of WMAU, and I'd also quite
> like to have a bit of a wider ranging discussion about participation in
> general - how people have enjoyed this year, and what WMAU could do more of
> in the coming year to grow and improve :-)
>
> Personally, I'd like to see us grow membership as a priority, partly by
> encouraging existing wiki volunteers at the various projects to join up, and
> partly through direct events like the 'backstage pass' initiaves, as well as
> things like corporate membership properly setup and running.
>
> Hope you're all good, and if you're in Sydney - make sure Sunday the 28th
> is in your diary (if you're clever and realise that Sunday is in fact the
> 29th, and you also know whether the AGM is planned for sat. or sunday, could
> you head over to the wiki and fix it ;-)
>
> cheers,
>
> Peter.
>
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] A Petition

[Andrew]

(Just confirming SLWA/Battye is an arm of the Department of Culture and the
Arts in WA, so it's probably the same in most places)

2009/11/4 Craig Franklin 

> I'm generally pessimistic about how successful petitions can be when
> presented to the government.  That said, perhaps an open letter signed by
> various free-culture groups (including WMAU) delivered to Senators Lundy
> and
> Conroy, Julia Gillard (in her role as Education Minister), and Peter
> Garrett
> as Arts Minister, could gain some interest.  At the moment, releasing stuff
> under free licences isn't a macro-vote winner, so I don't see that we're
> going to be able to have much influence yet (not withstanding Kate Lundy's
> excellent work so far, for which we should be very appreciative), so I
> think
> that the focus should be on convincing people that what we do is generally
> a
> good idea - if we can get the public to come, the politicians will follow!
>
> We should also look at influencing state governments as well - since they
> themselves are great sponsors of GLAM bodies and the like.  For instance,
> the Queensland Museum is basically an agency of the QLD state government.
> I'd imagine arrangements for state libraries, museums and the like are the
> same in other states and territories.
>
> Regards,
> Craig
> (who is sick at home from work, so if the above post makes no sense, I
> apologise!)
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wikimediaau-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org
> [mailto:wikimediaau-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Simonpedia
> Sent: Monday, 2 November 2009 10:53 AM
> To: wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Subject: [Wikimediaau-l] A Petition
>
> Hi Craig, Liam,
>
> Just reading through your comments and links.
>
> Two thing stuck out. The first is Catherine's comment;
> "But I also know that this would be a significant change for cultural
> institutions
> and that without a ministerial directive, it won't happen across the sector
> any time soon".
> http://catherinestyles.com/2009/10/15/glam-wiki-recommendations/
>
> The second is Kate Lundy's "this is the 'default position of the
> government'".
>
> This discussion is taking place in all publically funded institutions at
> present; not just GLAMs.
> The gov2 hackfest in Canberra last week was another step in this "chipping
> away at monoliths".
>
> Can I make the suggestion that it might be time to offer a petition.
> The committee down there is playing with trying to do this electronically,
> I can't see how this may be attempted without a Single Sign On for all
> Australian citizens. But that's almost there now.
> This might be good opportunity to get the first step into the online world
> for .gov.au institutions.
> At least we can encourage the .gov to put their policy where their mouth
> is.
>
> http://www.aph.gov.au/House/committee/petitions/index.htm
> regards, simonfj
>
>
> Wow Craig,
> this is great and the work you've been doing with the QM is really
> important
> outreach and local interaction. It's one think for the Wikimedia community
> to say "give us your photos" but you actually getting out there and
> building
> a personal relationship with the institution is incredibly valuable. Thank
> you!
>
> I would also like to point people to another recent post (more from the
> Library angle) about interacting with Wikipedia:
> http://www.libraryjournal.com/article/CA6703519.html There's also this
> personal response from the sector about the GLAM-WIKI recommendations:
> And I know
> that the National Library is working on a formal/institutional-level
> response to the recommendations too.
>
> All in all, there is a lot of work going on in the GLAM sector to find ways
> of working with Wikimedia! There'll be a few announcements along these
> lines
> in the near future and I know from talking with some European colleagues
> that our work in Australia is being looked at as the best-practice. So,
> Criag, keep up the good work and please tell us if you need any specific
> assistance.
>
> -Liam
> [[Witty lama]]
> VP Wikimedia Australia
>
> wittylama.com/blog
> Peace, love & metadata
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 8:23 AM, Craig Franklin  wrote:
>
> > ?We certainly live in interesting (and rapidly changing) times. There is
> a
> > loud and significant clarion call from Commonwealth and State governments
> to
> > digitise collections to enable free public access to our cultural assets.
> As
> > Senator Kate Lundy stated in her address at the GLAM-Wiki conference in
> > Canberra in August, this is the 'default position of the government'.
>
>
> > Wikimediaau-l mailing list
> > Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
> >
> >
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
>
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaau-l/attachments/20091029/caab
> 31e9/attachment-0001.htm

[Wikimediaau-l] DNS move reverted

[Andrew Garrett]

We had some trouble with the DNS server move, and have now reverted it  
pending some investigation of what went wrong

--
Andrew Garrett
agarr...@wikimedia.org
http://werdn.us/


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[Wikimediaau-l] DNS switch in progress

[Andrew Garrett]

Hi all,

I've just had Tim switch our DNS to new hosting by Linux Users  
Victoria. This change is to prepare for a move of all services to this  
new server.

This shouldn't cause trouble, but there's some evidence that the  
transfer is causing downtime. We're looking into it.

--
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http://werdn.us/


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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] FW: A potential project?

[Andrew]

2009/9/8 Simonpedia si...@cols.com.au

>  By the way, I should mention another cultural institution who won’t open
> their doors. http://www.toiletmap.gov.au/
>
> Cross your legs.
>
They were the ones who didn't acknowledge the QLD local government
rearrangements for more than 12 months after they happened, as I recall... I
assume due to lack of resources.

May be a matter of convincing them we could have helped?

cheers
Andrew
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] smh coverage

[Andrew]

The obvious point to make re new articles being created is that that could
never have gone on indefinitely simply because back in the days when we had
nothing or were scattered in coverage of certain areas, filling those
generated a lot of articles. I remember personally generating hundreds of
articles for suburbs or LGAs which did not previously exist in around 2006
or 2007. All of those now exist, the only changes that can be made are to
improve them. And stub generation (even post-stub generation) is a lot
easier and a lot more possible to do by a wider range of people than is
quality content or improving articles. To give another geography example - I
might know a bit about my area but not a lot about the area down the road,
so I might make significant improvements t omy own area but ignore the other
one. If there isn't a similar editor there, then that one stays a stub.

2009/8/7 private musings 

>
> http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/wikipedias-on-the-wane-study-20090807-ec98.html
>
> It's a little bit backhanded in it's coverage of the GLAM stuff - complete
> with Liam's early contended for strangest wiki-quote of the year!
>
> "People who like sausages or obeying the law shouldn't see either being
> made, and the same goes for encyclopedias - it's a messy process but the
> outcome is good," Wyatt said. ;-)
>
> I'm curious to hear what role folks would envisage this chapter having in
> the 'global strategic review' apparently kicking off to discuss the next 5
> years for wmf projects?
>
> cheers,
>
> Peter,
> PM.
>
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] GLAM Challenge

[Andrew]

Only reason I'm not is excessive levels of outstanding offline work which
are urgently due :)

2009/7/17 Brianna Laugher 

> Hi all,
>
> It would be great to see a few more folks from this list taking part.
> <
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Australia/GLAM_challenge#Entrants
> >
>
> Is there anything in particular holding people back?
>
> Is it confusing as to how it works?
> Is the theme uninteresting?
> Prizes not exciting enough?
>
> Anything we could change that would make you more likely to take part?
>
>
> cheers,
> Brianna
>
>
> 2009/7/11 Gnangarra :
> > After a slow start to nomination we have extended the period to nominate
> > until 24th July with the Challange running from the 13th until the 31st
> July
> >
> > 2009/7/3 Gnangarra 
> >>
> >> During the last few months Wikimedia Australia has been organising GLAM
> we
> >> want everybody to be apart of this event, we know not everyone can
> attend in
> >> person so we have organised the GLAM-Challenge
> >>
> >> Its not just an ordinary challenge we have kindly recieved from some of
> >> the participating institutions a number of items which will be given
> away as
> >> prizes for your efforts, prefernece will be given to efforts that
> produce
> >> something to further the knowledge of Australian subjects or have an
> >> association to one of the GLAM institutions in any Wikimedia project
> >>
> >> What do you need to do to be apart of this between now and the 13th July
> >> you need to sign up as an entrant.  Create a subpage from your user
> account
> >> on meta identifiing your theme list all your edits on your theme between
> the
> >> 13th July and 23:59UTC on the 19th July, by 23:59utc on the 20th,
> judging
> >> will start after that date. The recipients will be contacted directly by
> >> email, with prizes announced by the 1st August.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Gnangarra.
> >> http://gnangarra.redbubble.com/
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > GN.
> > http://gnangarra.redbubble.com/
> >
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> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> They've just been waiting in a mountain for the right moment:
> http://modernthings.org/
>
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] relavent to GLAM

[Andrew]

Agreed with Gnangarra - I think if we approach them on agreeable terms and
recognise that they have needs too that need to be factored in, and that we
can fill them in on what we need and work out how that can be accommodated
as well, then everyone can gain from it. The successful approaches are
always win-win.

2009/7/11 Gnangarra 

> Opening communication between the Australian Institutions and wiki world is
> what GLAM is for, at the extreme if such an issue was to arise with an
> Australian Institution we would be able to resolve the concerns without
> legal threats.  GLAM is about us working together and understand each others
> needs and rights so that such an issue should never arise, to encourage this
> we also need more Wiki people to attend, thanks to some sponsors Wikimedia
> Australia has just announced an offer bursaries to assist people in
> attending.
>
> GLAM isnt a soapbox in the middle of Hyde Park for people to preach US law
> to UK institutions and such soapboxing while occassionally necessary it isnt
> productive when everybody is there to better understand each others needs.
> I'd also note the many UK Institutions have always maintained that the US
> Bridgeman v. Corel decision isnt reasonable and that if one wishes to see
> these works they should do so at the institution that owns them. Also if one
> wishes to display them outside the institution given the expenses involve in
> obtaining and preserving these works they should have the right to some form
> of compensation.
>
> 2009/7/11 private musings 
>
> well just for the record, I hope we can do better than referring to an
>> action clearly intended (however misguided) to protect the work of a
>> rather venerable cultural institution as 'batshit insane' :-) - I
>> rather think it runs the risk of making us seem a bit radical and
>> unfriendly - not my perception of what GLAM is all about.
>>
>> This bit though "So the thing is really: how to convince museums and
>> galleries to open
>> up, use us for free publicity and spreading their good name"  -
>> absolutely spot on... :-)
>>
>> now play nice.
>>
>> best,
>>
>> Peter,
>> PM.
>>
>> On 7/11/09, David Gerard  wrote:
>> > On 11/07/2009, private musings  wrote:
>> >
>> >> This is rather important + serious stuff which relates to the 'GLAM'
>> >> sector
>> >> - hopefully we'll be leading the way in ensuring good communication may
>> >> help
>> >> resolve problems like this;
>> >> (basically a Commons user has received a legal letter relating to
>> uploads
>> >> of
>> >> photographs of gallery items)
>> >> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Dcoetzee/NPG_legal_threat,
>> >
>> >
>> > It doesn't help that the NPG's actions (a UK org threatening a US
>> > citizen with legal action over actions that are unambiguously not a
>> > copyright violation of any sort in US law) are, how do I put this,
>> > FRANKLY INSANE.
>> >
>> > I made a quick summary blog post:
>> > http://davidgerard.co.uk/notes/2009/07/11/sue-and-be-damned/
>> >
>> > Note that another notable UK museum, the V&A, took the opposite tack:
>> > open their collections, spread their name and pictures of their
>> > exhibits, reap the publicity. (The V&A is fantastic, and no photo can
>> > substitute for seeing the stuff in real life.)
>> >
>> > So the thing is really: how to convince museums and galleries to open
>> > up, use us for free publicity and spreading their good name ... and
>> > not act batshit insane like the NPG appears to be.
>> >
>> >
>> > - d.
>> >
>> > ___
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>> >
>>
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>
>
>
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] SMH article

[Andrew]

I answered the questions guardedly as you can probably tell :) I think I was
fairly represented in the article as you can see below.

Re general stuff, part of my reply was: "I don't agree with the findings as
a general rule for Wikipedia although it may apply to the participants in
some of Wikipedia's stranger conflicts. If you want to see grumpiness and
closed-mindedness at work, hanging around AN/I and RfAr (where our stickiest
problems end up) is always fun - intractably opposed contributors, many with
vested interests, slugging it out to the death. However I don't think this
applies more broadly to the encyclopaedia's culture which is a lot less fun
to watch." I then explained Wikipedia's policy-based culture.

The answer I gave him re Australia was in part: "I find Australian Wikipedia
is one of the oases of relative calm on Wikipedia generally - I retreat to
it when stressed with working on other areas. This can be measured in part
by the lack of arbitration interest in our project - only one Arbitration
Committee proceeding, back in 2006, ever centred on an Australian article,
and that was not a conflict in the traditional sense." I also said the
reason for this in my view is that the Australian community works in good
faith, is a meritocracy and works pragmatically.

cheers
Andrew


2009/7/8 YellowMonkey 

> The sample space is too small anyway. Plus in some wikicountries, a large
> chunk of the editors are obseesed with a certain topic. Still I agree with
> the egocentric part
>
> On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 11:19 AM, private musings 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/wikipedians-are-a-bunch-of-egocentric-introverts-study-20090708-dcnk.html
>>
>> It's a bit of fluff really - but Andrew and Daniel did well to expose the
>> weaknesses of the israeli study, I reckon. In particular I'm sure Daniel was
>> talking about me when he said 'Established Australian Wikipedians are some
>> of the most well-connected in real life, both as members of the education
>> and information revolution, and also socially' - just needed to add that
>> we're also very good looking :-)
>>
>> cheers,
>>
>> Peter,
>> PM.
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] schools - a post-glam movement ;-)

[Andrew]

Hi Peter,

2009/6/22 

> Though this is still true.  At least within my son's school, the staff
> are still trying to come up with ideas on how to integrate the laptops
> into the teaching process.  Being able to point to sections of the
> curriculum and proposing how Wikipedia and/or WM-AU can help them meet
> the "outcomes" will probably be useful.


Many teachers aren't terribly computer literate, either - even though most
of them have and regularly use computers. Some would genuinely like to learn
more about them while others have a hostility to them.


>  >I'm happy to help from the WA side, although I am of the firm belief that
> >*Wikipedia* (as opposed to other Wiki-based delivery methods) as such is
> not
> >the most useful avenue to do this. In my field, the articles are far too
> >technical / high-level for the high school students to understand (or in
> >some cases even me, and I have a degree minor in the stuff!)
>
> This also implies that those articles are not accessible to the
> average adult, which I feel is undesirable.  It would be useful to
> adapt the articles to improve accessibility, without losing the more
> technical details.


The standards for articles on Wikipedia do not dictate the level of
comprehensibility. In finding stuff for year 9 and 10 Biology classes when I
was doing prac teaching I really didn't find much I could use at all on Wiki
- the language was at higher-end undergraduate level. As for the chemistry
area which I mentioned as my minor - again the language was higher level and
a lot of stuff which would be very useful to practising chemists or to
university lecturers/tutors was there but not a lot I could mine out for my
class. In the end I had to resort to photocopying introductory bits of uni
textbooks :)


> > and often have
> >concepts in them which are not within the various Australian curricula.
>
> As article should not be ignored solely because it includes more
> information/detail than required.  As long as the relevant material
> can identified, it could still be useful.


Unfortunately with 50 minute lesson time and a range of learners from the
very bright, logical, creative thinkers through to the concrete learners
(very common in the 12-15 age range, basically means they haven't yet
developed formal reasoning or understanding of the abstract) the teacher
pretty much needs to have it in a form they can use *right now*. Especially
in maths and science the problem already is with students having mental
blocks thinking they can't understand things which are actually not
difficult to explain, so the idea is always to minimise distractions and
emphasise real world applications. In effect every minute spent on stuff
they don't need to know is a minute lost from a teaching/curriculum
perspective.

I still think it would be possible to have a collaborative project which can
generate resources, tasks, etc which are appropriate to various grade
levels. The Wikieducator project was striving to do something similar on an
international basis.

cheers
Andrew
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] schools - a post-glam movement ;-)

[Andrew]

Also worth pointing out you need teachers with curriculum experience
developing the stuff. I don't know how many curricula people have viewed but
since the 90s they are less prescriptive and contain lots of "eduspeak" and
gobbledygook and *assume* a lot of content. Also it's no longer sufficient
just to teach something, teachers have to mentally be able to tick off all
the boxes on all these criteria that are supposed to be met by the package.

2009/6/20 Andrew 

> Don't forget that we have DET employees, teachers and other educators
> amongst our own numbers either (including at least one board member). Given
> they've got a solid understanding of Wiki as well they're probably the best
> starting point before we start approaching the wider community - one of the
> strengths of Liam's approach to these organisations, it must be remembered,
> was that he had a fair degree of background knowledge from his own
> professional experience so he was able to speak some if not all of their
> language when communicating with them.
>
> Also, schools don't have equal access to online resources - the school I
> worked at in 2007 (a large state high school) you had to book the lab at
> least a week in advance and could only get it for an hour, and there was no
> net access in the classrooms. As such, the resource plan would have to
> consider how they might be used by teachers - i.e. trying to ensure maximum
> uptake and that we actually have a useful product.
>
> I'm happy to help from the WA side, although I am of the firm belief that
> *Wikipedia* (as opposed to other Wiki-based delivery methods) as such is not
> the most useful avenue to do this. In my field, the articles are far too
> technical / high-level for the high school students to understand (or in
> some cases even me, and I have a degree minor in the stuff!) and often have
> concepts in them which are not within the various Australian curricula. (I
> say various as I think the national curriculum will end up failing due to
> state-federal rivalries - it will end up as a bunch of state curricula
> trying to achieve core points agreed federally).
>
> cheers
> Andrew
>
>
> 2009/6/20 K. Peachey 
>
> On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 8:28 AM, private musings
>> wrote:
>> > Hi all,
>> > I just created this page;
>> > http://wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Schools
>> > with the intention of encouraging all those interested in liaising with
>> > educators / schools directly to jump in and whip up a few project pages
>> > formalising what we might do / info. we can share etc. etc. (it's a wiki
>> > process, of course, so please get involved!)
>> > Liam's a constant source of inspiration to me, and I've recently been
>> > involved in correspondance with a few other wiki folk all over the globe
>> > about furthering the 'glam' approach to include schools - ie. talking
>> with
>> > them about what schools' needs for wiki projects are, how we're
>> currently
>> > doing at meeting them, how we as a project (wikimedia, not just
>> wikipedia)
>> > fit in to their programmes etc.
>> > I've spoken at medium length to one head teacher and one head of
>> department
>> > on a personal level which has further convinced me that it would be both
>> fun
>> > and useful for a cadre of volunteers to consider preparing a few talks /
>> > workshops etc. etc. to take to schools in the vicinity of wherever
>> > volunteers happen to be! - This project is intended to get that ball
>> rolling
>> > :-)
>> > Whilst the mailing list is a fantastic platform for sharing news - it's
>> > probably not quite as good as a wiki for actual development work, so
>> please
>> > consider just diving in at http://wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Schools or
>> > http://wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Talk:Schools - my vague, and quite likely
>> to
>> > shift, intention is for this to be in shape to follow 'GLAM' - so we'd
>> be
>> > looking offer some workshops to schools by September... help!
>> > best,
>> > Peter,
>> > PM.
>> > ps. an online donation service would still be a 'good thing' :-)
>> > pps. I'd like to offer teachers the opportunity to edit the wmau pages
>> > related to schools work - would that be cool?
>> > ppps. I also just put the fantastic wikisource book
>> > http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/A_specimen_of_the_botany_of_New_Hollandas our
>> > 'featured content' - check it out!
>> Maybe we could discuss what "content" we have on the wiki and how it
>> ties in with their teaching curriculms or what has to be improved. The
>> collection feature would be a great help there because we could on
>> mini collections that are tailored for the courses and such.
>>
>> ___
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] schools - a post-glam movement ;-)

[Andrew]

Don't forget that we have DET employees, teachers and other educators
amongst our own numbers either (including at least one board member). Given
they've got a solid understanding of Wiki as well they're probably the best
starting point before we start approaching the wider community - one of the
strengths of Liam's approach to these organisations, it must be remembered,
was that he had a fair degree of background knowledge from his own
professional experience so he was able to speak some if not all of their
language when communicating with them.

Also, schools don't have equal access to online resources - the school I
worked at in 2007 (a large state high school) you had to book the lab at
least a week in advance and could only get it for an hour, and there was no
net access in the classrooms. As such, the resource plan would have to
consider how they might be used by teachers - i.e. trying to ensure maximum
uptake and that we actually have a useful product.

I'm happy to help from the WA side, although I am of the firm belief that
*Wikipedia* (as opposed to other Wiki-based delivery methods) as such is not
the most useful avenue to do this. In my field, the articles are far too
technical / high-level for the high school students to understand (or in
some cases even me, and I have a degree minor in the stuff!) and often have
concepts in them which are not within the various Australian curricula. (I
say various as I think the national curriculum will end up failing due to
state-federal rivalries - it will end up as a bunch of state curricula
trying to achieve core points agreed federally).

cheers
Andrew


2009/6/20 K. Peachey 

> On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 8:28 AM, private musings
> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > I just created this page;
> > http://wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Schools
> > with the intention of encouraging all those interested in liaising with
> > educators / schools directly to jump in and whip up a few project pages
> > formalising what we might do / info. we can share etc. etc. (it's a wiki
> > process, of course, so please get involved!)
> > Liam's a constant source of inspiration to me, and I've recently been
> > involved in correspondance with a few other wiki folk all over the globe
> > about furthering the 'glam' approach to include schools - ie. talking
> with
> > them about what schools' needs for wiki projects are, how we're currently
> > doing at meeting them, how we as a project (wikimedia, not just
> wikipedia)
> > fit in to their programmes etc.
> > I've spoken at medium length to one head teacher and one head of
> department
> > on a personal level which has further convinced me that it would be both
> fun
> > and useful for a cadre of volunteers to consider preparing a few talks /
> > workshops etc. etc. to take to schools in the vicinity of wherever
> > volunteers happen to be! - This project is intended to get that ball
> rolling
> > :-)
> > Whilst the mailing list is a fantastic platform for sharing news - it's
> > probably not quite as good as a wiki for actual development work, so
> please
> > consider just diving in at http://wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Schools or
> > http://wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Talk:Schools - my vague, and quite likely
> to
> > shift, intention is for this to be in shape to follow 'GLAM' - so we'd be
> > looking offer some workshops to schools by September... help!
> > best,
> > Peter,
> > PM.
> > ps. an online donation service would still be a 'good thing' :-)
> > pps. I'd like to offer teachers the opportunity to edit the wmau pages
> > related to schools work - would that be cool?
> > ppps. I also just put the fantastic wikisource book
> > http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/A_specimen_of_the_botany_of_New_Holland as
> our
> > 'featured content' - check it out!
> Maybe we could discuss what "content" we have on the wiki and how it
> ties in with their teaching curriculms or what has to be improved. The
> collection feature would be a great help there because we could on
> mini collections that are tailored for the courses and such.
>
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Open website editing?

[Andrew]

Agreed with John and Gnangarra.

Re: John's point about Brianna's suggestion - I would have been under the
impression that the right to edit would under that model be granted to
specific known individuals, so the committee would already be aware of the
person involved, perceive a tangible benefit in having them editing (i.e.
"we need help with something, this person has the skills/knowhow/whatever to
help us in that way to the extent we should overlook their non-membership
status to give them editing rights"), and be able to decide on that basis.

cheers
Andrew

2009/6/14 Gnangarra 

> Reading this I see that there may be a shift as to what the purpose of the
> Wiki was for, from my understanding it was for the record keeping related to
> WM-au activities, this would include some discussions and event notices but
> I cant see any purpose that we would have a need for non-members to have
> open access to our records that couldnt be managed by the creation of an
> account for that purpose.
>
> If an individual wants the rights of a member then $40 membership fee is a
> very small barrier to gain such rights.
>
>
>
> 2009/6/14 John Vandenberg 
>
> On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Sarah Ewart wrote:
>> > Yes, I also agree there's no consensus, but remember that this isn't the
>> > English Wikipedia and we don't necessarily do things by consensus.
>> WP:CON
>> > can be useful in group decision making, but we're not bound by it and
>> having
>> > a Wikipedia-style "consensus" for something doesn't necessarily mean it
>> will
>> > or won't happen as the Chapter and the committee have obligations and
>> > responsibilities outside a "consensus" among half-a-dozen people on a
>> > mailing list.
>> >
>> > When we were setting up the official wiki, the committee considered
>> using
>> > flagged revs for members.  (see:
>> >
>> http://wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Resolution:Officialwiki_configuration_and_accounts
>> )
>> > I'm not sure what ended up happening with it or how far we got towards
>> > implementation, but I guess we could consider the possibility of using
>> > flagged revs.
>>
>> The original intention was that flagged revs was going to prevent
>> members from making unapproved changes to pages which need committee
>> approval before modification can go live.  So far we haven't needed
>> that.
>>
>> Before non-members can edit the WM-AU website, a new resolution from
>> the committee would be needed.
>>
>> > However, I feel that Brianna raised some important issues with regard to
>> > members v non-members editing that can't just be cast aside.
>>
>> Brianna's suggestion is feasible, if a committee is willing to take on
>> the extra work involved in managing the new account requests.  As
>> there is no monetary disincentive, the process of accepting
>> non-members would require verification of wiki-identity where
>> applicable; there are plenty of people who would love to waste our
>> time in order to have a few lulz.  And as these users will not be
>> members, there will be no compensation for time and effort of whoever
>> is handling new non-member account setup.
>>
>> We still have a meta presence, and non-members can knock themselves
>> out over there.  As a result, I am opposed to opening the doors for
>> the sake of a few spelling corrections.  Currently we don't need or
>> want an active administration team.
>>
>> > Nick, I also don't think editing privs is an effective draw-card for
>> getting
>> > more members. I can't imagine anyone being motivated to join WMAu so
>> they
>> > can edit the official wiki. But we don't currently have the ability to
>> offer
>> > much in tangible members privs so it counts in "What do I get?".
>>
>> If someone indicated they were willing to pay $40 in order to edit our
>> website, I would be quite worried about their motivations.
>>
>> --
>> John Vandenberg
>>
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>
>
>
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> GN.
> http://gnangarra.redbubble.com/
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Open website editing?

[Andrew]

I don't see any such consensus emerging in this discussion - it actually
seems to be more the other way.

2009/6/9 private musings 

> it looks to me like we're heading for consensus that a bit more open
> editing would be a good thing - not for IP addresses, but for folk who have
> confirmed their email address (per Nick's technical suggestion)... could we
> implement this or could someone suitably empowered indicate how they see
> this developing / further thoughts :-)
> I think just getting a bit more energy / input into wm-au would be a good
> thing at the mo - and for me this includes welcoming non-member editors at
> this time.
> cheers,
> Peter,
> PM.
>
> On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 10:43 PM, Andrew  wrote:
>
>> Indeed. Agreed with Sarah's post - she put it far better than I did :)
>>
>> If there is a learning curve for new users, perhaps we could simply
>> include a FAQ on editing the communal wiki or a link to it in the welcome
>> pack/greeting that members receive when they first join.
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> 2009/6/5 Sarah Ewart 
>>
>>> I can't say I'm enamored with the idea of anonymous editing. As I recall,
>>> we had several reasons for restricting editing. As Liam said, one was to
>>> provide members privs (editing rights for the wiki is still listed on the
>>> membership page as a member's benefit), and another was concern about
>>> disruption - vandals, spammers, and whatnot.  I don't think we're currently
>>> equipped to deal with the 'cons' that go along with the 'pros' of anonymous
>>> editing. Currently we have 32 registered users, minus at least four testing
>>> and alternate accounts. Of the remaining 28, 4 are classed as active (edited
>>> in the last 7 days) and a large portion of the rest have never edited
>>> outside establishing user/user talk pages. From a practical standpoint, I
>>> would be very concerned about how the extra cleanup and monitoring of recent
>>> changes, which inevitably goes hand-in-hand with anonymous editing, would be
>>> managed so that it wouldn't just become another job for a small number of
>>> people who already have a lot of work to do (don't meant that to sound at
>>> all snarky :)).  Also agree with what Brianna said about members v open
>>> spaces and undue influence on the Chapter from non-members etc.
>>>
>>> I do, however, agree with Peter's comments about reasons people without
>>> memberships and accounts may find themselves wanting to edit and it would be
>>> nice to find a way to facilitate this but I can't imagine that I would
>>> support anonymous editing at least until/unless we have a reasonably active
>>> wiki community and that seems unlikely for the foreseeable future.  Also I
>>> honestly don't think that creating an account is currently that onerous for
>>> members and you don't have to write emails. Simply fill out this form to
>>> request an account - http://wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Special:RequestAccount
>>>
>>> -Sarah
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 5:46 PM, Liam Wyatt  wrote:
>>>
>>>> From what I recall, the reason we didn't have open editing of the
>>>> Wikimedia Australia wiki is by way of providing something special to
>>>> members. I am personally not against the idea of opening up the editing to
>>>> non-members but AFAICR that was the issue - not a technical one.
>>>> -Liam
>>>>
>>>> wittylama.com/blog
>>>> Peace, love & metadata
>>>> Sent from Sydney, Nsw, Australia
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 5:36 PM, private musings >>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> found myself nodding furiously at Pengo's first post :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> @nickj - it sound to me that you have the appropriate technical know
>>>>> how to implement the 'open editing once you've confirmed your email'
>>>>> approach which this thread seems to be moving towards - would you be
>>>>> prepared to make the appropriate necessary technical changes, given the
>>>>> appropriate access?
>>>>>
>>>>> @brianna / other committee types reading - would you mind nick having
>>>>> said access, and making said changes? I think it'd be most helpful :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> it'd be very cool to move towards resolving this one in reasonably
>>>>> sho

Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Open website editing?

[Andrew]

Indeed. Agreed with Sarah's post - she put it far better than I did :)

If there is a learning curve for new users, perhaps we could simply include
a FAQ on editing the communal wiki or a link to it in the welcome
pack/greeting that members receive when they first join.

Andrew

2009/6/5 Sarah Ewart 

> I can't say I'm enamored with the idea of anonymous editing. As I recall,
> we had several reasons for restricting editing. As Liam said, one was to
> provide members privs (editing rights for the wiki is still listed on the
> membership page as a member's benefit), and another was concern about
> disruption - vandals, spammers, and whatnot.  I don't think we're currently
> equipped to deal with the 'cons' that go along with the 'pros' of anonymous
> editing. Currently we have 32 registered users, minus at least four testing
> and alternate accounts. Of the remaining 28, 4 are classed as active (edited
> in the last 7 days) and a large portion of the rest have never edited
> outside establishing user/user talk pages. From a practical standpoint, I
> would be very concerned about how the extra cleanup and monitoring of recent
> changes, which inevitably goes hand-in-hand with anonymous editing, would be
> managed so that it wouldn't just become another job for a small number of
> people who already have a lot of work to do (don't meant that to sound at
> all snarky :)).  Also agree with what Brianna said about members v open
> spaces and undue influence on the Chapter from non-members etc.
>
> I do, however, agree with Peter's comments about reasons people without
> memberships and accounts may find themselves wanting to edit and it would be
> nice to find a way to facilitate this but I can't imagine that I would
> support anonymous editing at least until/unless we have a reasonably active
> wiki community and that seems unlikely for the foreseeable future.  Also I
> honestly don't think that creating an account is currently that onerous for
> members and you don't have to write emails. Simply fill out this form to
> request an account - http://wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Special:RequestAccount
>
> -Sarah
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 5:46 PM, Liam Wyatt  wrote:
>
>> From what I recall, the reason we didn't have open editing of the
>> Wikimedia Australia wiki is by way of providing something special to
>> members. I am personally not against the idea of opening up the editing to
>> non-members but AFAICR that was the issue - not a technical one.
>> -Liam
>>
>> wittylama.com/blog
>> Peace, love & metadata
>> Sent from Sydney, Nsw, Australia
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 5:36 PM, private musings 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> found myself nodding furiously at Pengo's first post :-)
>>>
>>> @nickj - it sound to me that you have the appropriate technical know how
>>> to implement the 'open editing once you've confirmed your email' approach
>>> which this thread seems to be moving towards - would you be prepared to make
>>> the appropriate necessary technical changes, given the appropriate access?
>>>
>>> @brianna / other committee types reading - would you mind nick having
>>> said access, and making said changes? I think it'd be most helpful :-)
>>>
>>> it'd be very cool to move towards resolving this one in reasonably short
>>> order :-)
>>>
>>> cheers,
>>>
>>> Peter,
>>> PM.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 12:41 PM, K. Peachey wrote:
>>>
>>>> > If spam is the main reason to have accounts, would using a CAPTCHA for
>>>> > non-confirmed accounts help? (is that a simple option in Mediawiki?)
>>>> > Otherwise I'd recommend nothing more restrictive than "confirm email
>>>> address
>>>> > to edit"
>>>> > Peter Halasz
>>>> > [[User:Pengo]]
>>>> I believe, although maybe wrong but its part of the core until a user
>>>> is autoconfirmed.
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Open website editing?

[Andrew]

My personal view is that the editing should be members only but it should be
as easy as possible for confirmed members to have the means to edit. I
believe this is presently the case so no change is required.

cheers
Andrew

2009/6/5 Brianna Laugher 

> Hi,
>
> Having open editing for the website is indeed not a technical problem
> as Liam mentioned.
>
> The thing that I am concerned about, in wanting to clearly delineate
> 'member' and 'open' spaces, is the situation where non-members have
> undue influence or expression and it is not possible to simply and
> clearly separate expressions by members, from expressions by
> non-members. Members are in a sense WMAU's first 'clients' or
> stakeholders. Members have made a financial and 'theoretical'
> commitment to WMAU (by agreeing to be bound by our Rules), which
> non-members have not. I guess my feeling is that having member spaces
> honours that commitment, which is perhaps cheapened if just anyone can
> take part without having to be a member.
>
> The possible non-member editing reasons that Peter Halasz suggests are
> relevant, although I note that non-members can take part in this
> mailing list.
>
> One compromise may be to open account creation to confirmed email,
> introduce a 'Members' user group, and restrict editing of particular
> namespaces, to that user group.
>
> cheers
> Brianna
>
>
> 2009/6/4 private musings :
> > found myself nodding furiously at Pengo's first post :-)
> >
> > @nickj - it sound to me that you have the appropriate technical know how
> to
> > implement the 'open editing once you've confirmed your email' approach
> which
> > this thread seems to be moving towards - would you be prepared to make
> the
> > appropriate necessary technical changes, given the appropriate access?
> >
> > @brianna / other committee types reading - would you mind nick having
> said
> > access, and making said changes? I think it'd be most helpful :-)
> >
> > it'd be very cool to move towards resolving this one in reasonably short
> > order :-)
> >
> > cheers,
> >
> > Peter,
> > PM.
> >
> > On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 12:41 PM, K. Peachey 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> > If spam is the main reason to have accounts, would using a CAPTCHA for
> >> > non-confirmed accounts help? (is that a simple option in Mediawiki?)
> >> > Otherwise I'd recommend nothing more restrictive than "confirm email
> >> > address
> >> > to edit"
> >> > Peter Halasz
> >> > [[User:Pengo]]
> >> I believe, although maybe wrong but its part of the core until a user
> >> is autoconfirmed.
> >>
> >> ___
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> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
> >
> >
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> >
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>
>
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> http://modernthings.org/
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Wikimedia goes CC

[Andrew]

I voted for it and have been licencing all my Commons uploads as
CC-BY-SA-3.0 for quite a while now, so am very happy about this. CC is just
so much easier to explain to subjects of articles and copyright holders than
is GFDL, that's the main reason I like it.

2009/5/22 Jessica Coates 

>  I'm sure you've all heard by now, cause the internet's abuzz, but just in
> case - the Wikimedia  community
> has officially 
> votedto add a 
> Creative Commons licence to all their wikis. The
> Attribution-ShareAlike 
> (BY-SA) licence, to be exact.
>
> This is possibly the biggest Creative Commons development since it launched
> in 2002, and great boon to the free culture community. As I pointed out in
> my previous post  on the vote,
> what this means is that the Wikimedia wikis will now be dual licensed under
> both BY-SA and the GNU Free Documentation 
> Licence(GFDL - 
> which Wikimedia currently uses), giving people moving material to
> and from the wikis the ability choose which licence they want to use. This
> means that the 6 million+ articles available on 
> Wikipediaand Wikimedia's other wikis (including
> Wiktionary , Wikinews ,
> and Wikiquote ) will be able to be more easily
> combined with the 160 million+ works that use Creative Commons licences.
>
> This is the result of a lot of effort by Wikimedia, the Free Software
> Foundation  (who manage the GFDL) and Creative
> Commons, which involved amending licences, public consultation, and finally
> a vote by the Wikimedia community about whether they wanted the change. This
> vote  ended
> yesterday and came up heavily in Creative Commons' favour, with 88% of
> people with an opinion voting to add the BY-SA licence (10% of voters said
> they didn't have an opinion). The vote's decision was then approved by the
> Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees and confirmed in a press 
> releaselast
>  night, which quote CC's founder, Lawrence Lessig, as saying:
>
> [Free Software Foundation President] Richard Stallman’s commitment to the
> cause of free culture has been an inspiration to us all. Assuring the
> interoperability of free culture is a critical step towards making this
> freedom work. The Wikipedia community is to be congratulated for its
> decision, and the Free Software Foundation thanked for its help. I am
> enormously happy about this decision.
>
> Hear hear from CCau!
>
> Jessica Coates
> Project Manager
> Creative Commons Clinic
> Queensland University of Technology
>
> ph: 07 3138 8301
> fax: 07 3138 9395
> email: j2.coa...@qut.edu.au
>
>
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Phorm opt-out for wikimedia.org.au?

[Andrew]

I think anything that distances Wikimedia from a company which used to
distribute spyware and has attracted opposition from a number of groups and
people that I respect would be a good thing, and I definitely support
Brion's action on this.

However, what stance WM-AU specifically takes on it, given we are such a
small part of the organisation and WP and various other WM projects have
already opted out, would amount to simply making a statement in broad terms
about the kind of Web we want to operate within, rather than having any real
or measurable impact. I wouldn't oppose that, either, although I'm not sure
that it would be necessary. But that's a matter for the Committee.

cheers
Andrew

2009/4/30 David Gerard 

> 2009/4/30 Brian Salter-Duke :
>
> > I would certainly support you doing this and I do not think it will be
> > disputed as the WMF and larger chatpers with more web presence have done
> > so. However, perhaps the committee needs to discuss it.
>
>
> Most of the point of doing so is to do so publicly, so that it can be
> stated "The board resolved that wikimedia.org.au should be opted-out
> of Phorm and requested Angela Beesley to send the opt-out notice."
> Then ORG can mention lots of chapter opt-outs on their blog and we all
> look good, ORG looks good and Phorm continues to look like Phorm ;-)
>
>
> - d.
>
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Meetup time again :-)

[Andrew Garrett]

2009/3/30 Liam Wyatt :
> I'm not so sure about the double meeting  - we don't want to split the group
> after all... but then again, if people are happy to turn up then that's
> great!
>
> As it stands there are currently 4 dates proposed on the meetup page:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/Sydney#April.2C_drinks_at_The_Belgian_Beer_Cafe.2C_6pm_til_late.21
> The 22nd, 17th, 15th and 16th - in that order.
> Can we consolidate this list into those dates we are actually looking at
> meeting up? I'm not sure which 2 of these 4 you are referring to when you
> say "both".
>

He means both the 22nd and the 17th. I'm the only person who can't
come to the 17th, and the 17th seems better for the reasons that
Brianna and Liam quoted. I don't mind substituting the Sydney meetup
for the Melbourne meetup, although it is unfortunate that I can't make
it.

If people want to meet up on the 22nd as well, I'd love to come, but I
don't want people to be arranging an extra meetup on my account.

-- 
Andrew Garrett

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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Meetup time again :-)

[Andrew Garrett]

On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 12:05 PM, Angela  wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 11:56 AM, Liam Wyatt  wrote:
>> The "Unlocking IP conference" runs on Thursday the 16th and Friday the 17th.
>> The conference dinner is on the Thursday night. Now, if we wanted to invite
>> a range of people from the conference to the wikimeetup then perhaps it is a
>> good idea to not clash with their official dinner and therefore to have the
>> meetup on the friday.
>
> What about Wednesday 15th?

That works for me, and Brianna says she'll be in town by then.


-- 
Andrew Garrett
Sent from Sydney, New South Wales, Australia

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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Meetup time again :-)

[Andrew Garrett]

On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 12:38 AM, Brianna Laugher
 wrote:
> Rargh! I was this... close... to getting an email out to you, PM.
>
> Since I'll be in Sydney I would _love_ to meet all the Sydney folks
> who are always having such cool meetups and doing such interesting
> things. If you could indulge me and change the date I would be most
> grateful :)

It's my last meetup in Sydney for a year or so, and I'm in Melbourne
from the 17th to the 21st. Like I suggested on-wiki, would it be
possible to move it back a day to the 16th instead?

-- 
Andrew Garrett

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