Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
That is quite insulting. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Bryan Peterson Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 8:59 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. Now that I don't agree with. Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. - Original Message - From: David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 6:08 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. Hello, An even more interesting read is the comments which are posted after the article. There was only one, out of 40+ comments, which was slightly in the person's favour. Mainly, everyone says it is not their problem, blind people should not be playing video games anyway, and we need to just learn to accept our place in life. Oh, and a few said we should get jobs rather than trying to play video games. Quite fascinating. David Chittenden, MS, CRC, MRCAA Yohandy wrote: Check out this article guys! Very interesting indeed. what do you guys think of this latest development? http://www.gamespot.com/news/6239339.html --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
While I find the comments about getting a job instead of playing videogames is more than stupid, I do not see how suing sony or any other mainstream game company will be of any use. I mean what's next, suing car companies because we cannot drive? chrissy -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Bryan Peterson Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 3:59 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. Now that I don't agree with. Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. - Original Message - From: David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 6:08 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. Hello, An even more interesting read is the comments which are posted after the article. There was only one, out of 40+ comments, which was slightly in the person's favour. Mainly, everyone says it is not their problem, blind people should not be playing video games anyway, and we need to just learn to accept our place in life. Oh, and a few said we should get jobs rather than trying to play video games. Quite fascinating. David Chittenden, MS, CRC, MRCAA Yohandy wrote: Check out this article guys! Very interesting indeed. what do you guys think of this latest development? http://www.gamespot.com/news/6239339.html --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] new MushClient scripts and podcast for AlterAeon released!
Hey guys This message is jsut to let you know that I have released a new version ofthe MushClient scripts for alter, along with a podcast to show you how it all works! download the podcast from http://mycrap.scrapping.cc/mushcast.mp3 and the scripts http://mycrap.scrapping.cc/mush.rar enjoy! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Top Speed 2 Cars and Tracks revisited
I hope those files have my stuff in them. If not, can someone try to locate a file called topspeed2mods.zip? Or something like that. I only ask because I don't want to lose my own creations. Signed: Dakotah Rickard On 11/6/09, Richard Sherman squir...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, Here are two files you can grab to replenish your cars and tracks inventory. http://squirman.jzeller.org/59_Tracks.zip http://squirman.jzeller.org/66_Cars.zip HTH. rich - Original Message - From: Dakotah Rickard Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 10:50 AM Right now it seems that the top speed 2 utilities pack download feature is unavailable. A while back, I posted a missive to this list requesting information concerning my huge zip file of cars and tracks. I lost a lot of junk on my old computer when it crashed and would like to be able to play my own cars, as well as those from the other people I came into contact with, on similarly created tracks. If anyone has info about that file or where to obtain something similar, I'd appreciate it. Signed: Dakotah Rickard --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] My thoughts on core exiles so far.
This is going to be quite long and detailed. I've been playing this game now for a little under a month now, yet I feel very much like I have only scratched the surface of it. The best way to describe this game really is like a book. Within reason you can pick it up and put it down. I have yet to find a mission that is time based. You can keep missions going for months at a time with no issue. Also in theory it doesn't really matter which of the npc missions you take on first, the game isn't exactly going to stop you. At least I haven't found that. The most difficult thing I have found to do so far is trading. As in buying and selling goods from shops to markets. The player market is very fluid and the shops are very expensive on the whole. The best form of trading I have yet found so far is the extraction kind. Where by you put a resource extractor on the surface of a given planet and then get it to extract specific resources from the surface. That is always going to be very profitable. It's slow work but the 2 main advantages to extracting are that firstly you don't need anything to run the extractors, they run themselves so it's free money, secondly you can do what ever you like whilst they are doing their jobs so you can just leave them and forget they are even there. Which is always handy! You can be making passenger runs or doing ashar runs and the like and you are still effectively making money. Stockpiling resources to sell in bulk on the markets. The economy for all intensive purposes is totally player driven so really it's only the shops that are the most expensive. I think the most tedious part to core exiles is when you are scanning for enemies. You can spend a while scanning for them and you can be refreshing the page several times in order to find what you need. But equally combat missions you can still gain points and level up without burning a ton of fuel. Also if you scoop the cargo after you destroy ships, then dock and sell to Joe's supplies, again it's free money. Ok it's not going to be as good as what you'd get on the player markets but equally there's a lot more Joe's stores than there are player market access points so it's a healthy trade-off. The best way to make money I've found so far is to do the passenger runs. But the problem with those is that they burn a ton of fuel if you want the worth while runs. So you can't spend to long making these runs. But the cash and points rewards you get do make them very worth while all the same. The thing with core exiles that I've learned very quickly is that it's a very addictive game. Personally I love it. I've been on it as much as anybody could be. Now here's the real big catch. As many of you will know ce isn't tic based in the sense that you don't get tics per hour. It's fuel, which I suppose you could say equates to the same thing. Fuel is burned in proportion to the sorts of activities that you undertake. So if you are constantly doing passenger runs you won't be playing the game that often. If you have noticed the player store, you will have noticed that you can buy fuel tickets which you can use at fuel depot's. you buy these tickets with real money. So the makers of the game know it's addictive so they have designed it in a way to try and keep people playing as long as they can by giving them the option of spending real money on fuel. Just so you can keep playing. I know I'm making this sound evil, it depends on how you look at it. If it looks attractive and it's going to sell then of course they're going to offer it. But my point here is, that if you learn to manage your game playing style right, you need never have to do this. The only things I have bought from the player store is the class 5 bio fuel engine and the big fuel tank. The reasons why I bought both these are as follows: 1. I want to maximise the amount of fuel I can get at any given time. 2. I want to store up fuel over time as well so I can do a ton of passenger runs. Then revert back to less fuel taxing activities. So yes I guess I've bought stuff from the store as well like most players have, but I'm not going to buy a ton of fuel tickets from the store purely because I'm smart enough not to need to do it. The game itself is genuinely a fun game to play. The community is a good one it seems to me. 1 of the biggest things about this game is that there is absolutely no player vs player killing at all. It's not possible. In a number of ways, each player is playing their own individual game. For example, a lot of the npc missions are the same. Everybody has done them or is doing them. There are points where people can work together in as much as sharing resources and the like which I haven't yet done but I do know it exists. Equally exploration as well I think is or can be a group effort by what I'm led to understand although I could be very wrong in this assumption. I haven't travelled the entire game universe yet. There's over 700 locations for you
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
wow I never thought we would have the cash or whatever to pull this off. Excuse my language but this guy better win. If not then we will now get the reputation as spoilt demanding f**king b**stards! Suing, yeah good idea. ofcause if we win it would actually make someone take notice may not do a lot but may do notice though I doubt a big corp would feel a 1 person suit. I wish this guy luck. Due to gamespot article crashing jaws and nvda though I had to use hal to save the file and it even struggled. hmph. At 02:33 p.m. 7/11/2009, you wrote: I actually find that very very interesting Look forward to seeing how it ends up -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Yohandy Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 6:40 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. Check out this article guys! Very interesting indeed. what do you guys think of this latest development? http://www.gamespot.com/news/6239339.html --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4579 (20091106) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4579 (20091106) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
same here I'd like to play mainstream, to, but one person suits aint goina do it not a smigen. group suits would but the foundations and other orgs have better things to worry aboutlike roading access and other things more important than games. so yeah we will have to muddle along. ofcause if this guy wins it doesn't change anything, he may get some cash to shut him up but its not going to change anything. I think orgs like audiogames.net spreading the word out would help more, than what this guy is doing. Ok maybe right now we will achieve nothing but in the future there is always the one day hope that something will eventually happen. At 02:11 p.m. 7/11/2009, you wrote: Frivolous, damaging, unnecessary, impossible. Would I like to be able to play mainstream games? It would be fun, but I'm not going to kid myself that it will ever happen. But let's say I empathized with him. That kid has only included those with useable vision. I guess totally blind people will have to sue next. Ryan -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Yohandy Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 6:40 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. Check out this article guys! Very interesting indeed. what do you guys think of this latest development? http://www.gamespot.com/news/6239339.html --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
I do aggree that if you play video games blind or sighted unless you have a job doing it then you are a sad fella. I play games all the time but I'd never concider it a life long dream. At 02:08 p.m. 7/11/2009, you wrote: Hello, An even more interesting read is the comments which are posted after the article. There was only one, out of 40+ comments, which was slightly in the person's favour. Mainly, everyone says it is not their problem, blind people should not be playing video games anyway, and we need to just learn to accept our place in life. Oh, and a few said we should get jobs rather than trying to play video games. Quite fascinating. David Chittenden, MS, CRC, MRCAA Yohandy wrote: Check out this article guys! Very interesting indeed. what do you guys think of this latest development? http://www.gamespot.com/news/6239339.html --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
hmmm though not strictly game related I was having issues with the dev of flashfxp on accessability the lead dev asked me what to do and I told him and he fixed the issue. OFcause ioware is a small company as they only sell 2 products. So I do think we will eventually play mainstream games, however the big guys, soni, mgm, and ms etc will be out of our leegue for some time and may never get in to access at all. At 02:09 p.m. 7/11/2009, you wrote: Well, I'm not %100 on the loss of money due to online auctions clause, and I think stretching the deffinition of access to places of accommodation to include games is slightly dodgy logic, but that being said it's at least putting a games company on the spot about access. i'm not sure if this will succeed or not, it wouldn't surprise me if ssony find a way to weazle out of this, but stil, it at least increases public consciousness, and makes it clear that visually impared gamers aren't just one or two people in one or two places. I could tell similar stories about my experiences with capcom regarding their release of low vision accessible games in the Uk, and with nintendo about the matter of the wiimote for menue access, who, while a lot nicer, were no less able to be helpful. I'm not sure where this will go, if anywhere, though of course I hope it's carried through and a legal pressidant is set. Either way, interesting news. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 12:39 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. Check out this article guys! Very interesting indeed. what do you guys think of this latest development? http://www.gamespot.com/news/6239339.html --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
Meh, while I wouldn't push it anywhere near as far as the comments on the actual gamespot page did, I do have an incling that this is both A) doomed to fail and B) a pretty dodgy case in the first place assuming the people this guy is taking on weren't a giant with ridiculously highly paid lawyers at their beck and call. I'm no law expert, but so far as I know the stretch he's trying for on both points is about as sound as a chocolate teapot, hence Sony will more than likely dismiss it as pesky and pay him off a bit if he's lucky. Of course, everything would be a different ball game if the media get hold of it and take this chaps side on a national or international level, but going on the comments thus far it's unlikely dontcha think. On 11/7/09, Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net wrote: Now that I don't agree with. Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. - Original Message - From: David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 6:08 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. Hello, An even more interesting read is the comments which are posted after the article. There was only one, out of 40+ comments, which was slightly in the person's favour. Mainly, everyone says it is not their problem, blind people should not be playing video games anyway, and we need to just learn to accept our place in life. Oh, and a few said we should get jobs rather than trying to play video games. Quite fascinating. David Chittenden, MS, CRC, MRCAA Yohandy wrote: Check out this article guys! Very interesting indeed. what do you guys think of this latest development? http://www.gamespot.com/news/6239339.html --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] FreezeUp hand held game.
Or Flobberworms? (grin) --- In God we trust! - Original Message - From: Phil Vlasak p...@pcsgames.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 1:34 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] FreezeUp hand held game. Hi Allan, You are correct in that the FreezeUp game voices the category and letter of the alphabet and the time left for each player but does not have the answers. In other words if the category is animals and the letter is P and you say Pig, the game can not listen to you and convert your word to text and search a data base of animals that start with p, nor does it give you a list of correct answers. These would make it easier to use if there was a dispute in answers like whale as a fish starting with w. The instructions were on-line in a PDF document but I didn't keep the URL. It suggests looking up the word in a dictionary if there is a question. Such as in floberworm for animal starting with f. Of course the players could decide if Harry Potter animals are allowed . smiles, Phil - Original Message - From: Allan Thompson allan1.thomp...@cox.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 11:32 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] FreezeUp hand held game. Hi Phil, Thanks for the heads up on this hand held. It sounds really neat. A question though. If I understand right, the machine itself doesn't have answers to the catagories itself, but those come from the players instead, is that right? I think I'll pick one up. al --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
That I do agree with. It's just going to give us more of a bad reputation than we already have in some quarters. I know a few blind people who threaten to sue at the drop of a hat. I'm not an easy hater but I hate people like that. Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. - Original Message - From: ChB chr1...@gmx.de To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 10:31 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. While I find the comments about getting a job instead of playing videogames is more than stupid, I do not see how suing sony or any other mainstream game company will be of any use. I mean what's next, suing car companies because we cannot drive? chrissy -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Bryan Peterson Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 3:59 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. Now that I don't agree with. Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. - Original Message - From: David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 6:08 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. Hello, An even more interesting read is the comments which are posted after the article. There was only one, out of 40+ comments, which was slightly in the person's favour. Mainly, everyone says it is not their problem, blind people should not be playing video games anyway, and we need to just learn to accept our place in life. Oh, and a few said we should get jobs rather than trying to play video games. Quite fascinating. David Chittenden, MS, CRC, MRCAA Yohandy wrote: Check out this article guys! Very interesting indeed. what do you guys think of this latest development? http://www.gamespot.com/news/6239339.html --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
Even if we win there's every chance it'll just increase the reputation we already have in some quarters as demanding, spoiled brats. I know one or two folks like that. Even if we win it could be detremental to us. Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. - Original Message - From: shaun everiss shau...@xtra.co.nz To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 11:15 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. wow I never thought we would have the cash or whatever to pull this off. Excuse my language but this guy better win. If not then we will now get the reputation as spoilt demanding f**king b**stards! Suing, yeah good idea. ofcause if we win it would actually make someone take notice may not do a lot but may do notice though I doubt a big corp would feel a 1 person suit. I wish this guy luck. Due to gamespot article crashing jaws and nvda though I had to use hal to save the file and it even struggled. hmph. At 02:33 p.m. 7/11/2009, you wrote: I actually find that very very interesting Look forward to seeing how it ends up -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Yohandy Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 6:40 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. Check out this article guys! Very interesting indeed. what do you guys think of this latest development? http://www.gamespot.com/news/6239339.html --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4579 (20091106) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4579 (20091106) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
I agree the lawsuit is riddiculous and more than likely doomed, but I don't agree with the comments about blind people should not be allowed to play games. About all I feel this can accomplish is to give us an undesirable and undeserved reputation, one which we already have in some quarters, for being spoiled, demanding brats. Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. - Original Message - From: Scott Chesworth scottcheswo...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 4:28 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. Meh, while I wouldn't push it anywhere near as far as the comments on the actual gamespot page did, I do have an incling that this is both A) doomed to fail and B) a pretty dodgy case in the first place assuming the people this guy is taking on weren't a giant with ridiculously highly paid lawyers at their beck and call. I'm no law expert, but so far as I know the stretch he's trying for on both points is about as sound as a chocolate teapot, hence Sony will more than likely dismiss it as pesky and pay him off a bit if he's lucky. Of course, everything would be a different ball game if the media get hold of it and take this chaps side on a national or international level, but going on the comments thus far it's unlikely dontcha think. On 11/7/09, Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net wrote: Now that I don't agree with. Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. - Original Message - From: David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 6:08 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. Hello, An even more interesting read is the comments which are posted after the article. There was only one, out of 40+ comments, which was slightly in the person's favour. Mainly, everyone says it is not their problem, blind people should not be playing video games anyway, and we need to just learn to accept our place in life. Oh, and a few said we should get jobs rather than trying to play video games. Quite fascinating. David Chittenden, MS, CRC, MRCAA Yohandy wrote: Check out this article guys! Very interesting indeed. what do you guys think of this latest development? http://www.gamespot.com/news/6239339.html --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
Hi Yohandy, This is definitely an interesting development. Although, I think it is probably going to be in vain. Too much rides on the fact the case is based on a week legal standpoint to begin with, and to top that off the general public is totally clueless about game accessibility as well. Based on the comments I've read about this article on the site this case is extremely unpopular among the general readership on Gamespot.com. Most of the comments of the readership are way off the mark, and only proves my point they are completely ignorant of game accessibility issues. For one thing one of the comments came out and said, how can a blind guy play a video game? The comment went on to state that that is impossible, we can't because we are blind, and ended with the conclusion there is no way Sony could ever make their video games accessible to a blind gamer. The authors entire premise was completely false, based on a lack of credible evidence otherwise, and most of the comments that follows are more of the same sort of misinformed logic. If we assume the general public holds this sort of attitude it is no wonder we have this kind of problem gaining access to games and other forms of multimedia software. One thing that did come from this article is what people really think about us when they don't think we are paying attention to what they say. I found several comments very insulting, misinformed, and out and out lacking concern for our needs or desires. The comments about we should get a job instead of trying to play video games was extremely insulting and unsympathetic. It seams the person who said that forgets plenty of sighted gamers are able to happily work a regular nine to five job and come home and play his/her favorite games too. Anyway, getting back to the point, I don't see this case really going anywhere. Sony is a very major player in the video games industry, and I've personally spoken to them on a few ocations about accessibility for the Play Station II and Play Station III. I got the typical we can't discuss our future plans answer and of course half the time I got a reply that we don't take end user suggestions for new game titles. It was as though they didn't even read my e-mails to them, and they just sent out some canned answer they had drafted as an all purpose response. It was very clear to me Sony doesn't care about accessibility in the least, and try to give anyone the brush off if and when they can. I certainly applaud this persons tenacity in taking on Sony in court, but he has very little hope of really winning this one. First, he has to prove that what he seeks is possible, and that may require a programmer's point of view on what can and can't be done. Which most programmers aren't taught any kind of accessibility in college, and most are pretty misinformed on various ways they can improve the accessibility of their software products. Second, he is using the ADA in a way that really doesn't apply to video games. This alone is a major strike against his case. Third, the general public doesn't really care about blind accessibility issues so he is unlikely to get mainstream support for his cause. Let us face it most people are less concerned about accessibility when it is a non-essential issue like video games, something they can take for granted, than if all public buildings are accessible so Grandma Jones can get up to the third floor in her wheelchair or with her walker. Those sorts of issues matter to lots of people, particularly the elderly, where they could care less if a blind person can play a video game. It is pretty harsh, but that is reality. Unless you are blind or know someone who is blind video game accessibility doesn't apply to most people. Even if they did care they would fall back on the it can't be done anyway type of uninformed response. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
Hi Chrissy, Weather it works or not I think the main point of this lawsuit should be to make Sony and some of these major companies aware that accessible mainstream video games are possible, and that we would like them to take us seriously as a group interested in purchasing their video games. It is important to remember these companies, Sony in this case, repeatedly ignores requests for accessibility features, and won't even give a person a reasonable response when asked about accessibility. Here is a case in point. Back when the Play Station III was coming out I wrote them asking about possible accessibility features. I gave various suggestions in which they could improve the platform, improve accessibility, etc. However, the only response I got back was something to the effect thank you for your suggestions, but Sony can not endorse or accept new ideas for game titles, or improvements for existing game titles. I can't remember the reply word for word, but it was pretty clear they hadn't even read my e-mail.Even if they had it looked like something drafted by a team of lawyers to serve as a one size fits all type of canned answer they send everybody. Indeed I sent a few more e-mails and got basically the same message multiple times sent out by a different customer service rep. So what are we suppose to do to get these peoples attention? The bottom line is Sony, and probably various other companies, have customer service reps --- low level peons --- to basically tell the average Joe Smith to take a hike. So It is very doubtful anyone with any real authority saw my message, and I am assuming this person who is suing Sony got the exact same treatment. The first thing the Sony movers and shakers probably knew of this is when they got hit with the lawsuit, and that is because they hired peons to stone wall anyone who has a serious suggestion or complaint about their products. ChB wrote: While I find the comments about getting a job instead of playing videogames is more than stupid, I do not see how suing sony or any other mainstream game company will be of any use. I mean what's next, suing car companies because we cannot drive? chrissy --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
Let's face it people, mainstream accessibility is probably never going to happen even though the technology is and probably has been there for a lot of years. Or if it does it's going to take a small time developer developing an accessible game so groundbreaking that the mainstream devs can't help but take notice. And even should that happen, let's face it. The dev or devs might still not be convinced. Or they'd try and find some way to get the dev responsible for this groundbreaking title to cease any future development, be it hush money or something else just so they didn't have any competition. Not necessarily very realistic I'll admit but who really knows what a big corporation will do these days if they feel threatened? Even if the developer was not in violation of any copyrights they might still take issue. And anyway they'd have to develop said title for one of the major gaming platforms. Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. Hi Chrissy, Weather it works or not I think the main point of this lawsuit should be to make Sony and some of these major companies aware that accessible mainstream video games are possible, and that we would like them to take us seriously as a group interested in purchasing their video games. It is important to remember these companies, Sony in this case, repeatedly ignores requests for accessibility features, and won't even give a person a reasonable response when asked about accessibility. Here is a case in point. Back when the Play Station III was coming out I wrote them asking about possible accessibility features. I gave various suggestions in which they could improve the platform, improve accessibility, etc. However, the only response I got back was something to the effect thank you for your suggestions, but Sony can not endorse or accept new ideas for game titles, or improvements for existing game titles. I can't remember the reply word for word, but it was pretty clear they hadn't even read my e-mail.Even if they had it looked like something drafted by a team of lawyers to serve as a one size fits all type of canned answer they send everybody. Indeed I sent a few more e-mails and got basically the same message multiple times sent out by a different customer service rep. So what are we suppose to do to get these peoples attention? The bottom line is Sony, and probably various other companies, have customer service reps --- low level peons --- to basically tell the average Joe Smith to take a hike. So It is very doubtful anyone with any real authority saw my message, and I am assuming this person who is suing Sony got the exact same treatment. The first thing the Sony movers and shakers probably knew of this is when they got hit with the lawsuit, and that is because they hired peons to stone wall anyone who has a serious suggestion or complaint about their products. ChB wrote: While I find the comments about getting a job instead of playing videogames is more than stupid, I do not see how suing sony or any other mainstream game company will be of any use. I mean what's next, suing car companies because we cannot drive? chrissy --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
Hi Scott, Indeed the case seams pretty weak. He and his lawyers are reaching with their suit. So it will be very interesting to see how the judge, if it goes that far, will decide the legal ramifications of this case. I too agree that media support would not be of much help. I've read the comments too, and most of them were pretty discouraging. It seams the general mainstream gaming community could care less about accessibility. If we are getting a response like that on a major forum like Game Spot we can hardly expect national or international media attention to be much better. I'm afraid Sony has the upper hand in this one. Scott Chesworth wrote: Meh, while I wouldn't push it anywhere near as far as the comments on the actual gamespot page did, I do have an incling that this is both A) doomed to fail and B) a pretty dodgy case in the first place assuming the people this guy is taking on weren't a giant with ridiculously highly paid lawyers at their beck and call. I'm no law expert, but so far as I know the stretch he's trying for on both points is about as sound as a chocolate teapot, hence Sony will more than likely dismiss it as pesky and pay him off a bit if he's lucky. Of course, everything would be a different ball game if the media get hold of it and take this chaps side on a national or international level, but going on the comments thus far it's unlikely dontcha think. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
It's even more depressing when you consider the almost overwhelmingly positive response to the last article pertaining to us that was posted on Gamespot. Of course that was about games developed for and by blind folks and not about mainstream games being made accessible. Grrr! If only this guy hadn't filed this riddiculous lawsuit! We MIGHT have had a chance of getting somewhere. Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:58 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. Hi Scott, Indeed the case seams pretty weak. He and his lawyers are reaching with their suit. So it will be very interesting to see how the judge, if it goes that far, will decide the legal ramifications of this case. I too agree that media support would not be of much help. I've read the comments too, and most of them were pretty discouraging. It seams the general mainstream gaming community could care less about accessibility. If we are getting a response like that on a major forum like Game Spot we can hardly expect national or international media attention to be much better. I'm afraid Sony has the upper hand in this one. Scott Chesworth wrote: Meh, while I wouldn't push it anywhere near as far as the comments on the actual gamespot page did, I do have an incling that this is both A) doomed to fail and B) a pretty dodgy case in the first place assuming the people this guy is taking on weren't a giant with ridiculously highly paid lawyers at their beck and call. I'm no law expert, but so far as I know the stretch he's trying for on both points is about as sound as a chocolate teapot, hence Sony will more than likely dismiss it as pesky and pay him off a bit if he's lucky. Of course, everything would be a different ball game if the media get hold of it and take this chaps side on a national or international level, but going on the comments thus far it's unlikely dontcha think. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
While I, like everyone else, would love the idea of having every single game accessible in the future, it will not happen. Think about how costly this would be, development would raise the price of a game to probably double what it is now. And to an extent I could understand that the sighted gamers will hit the roof when they are forced to pay outrageous prices for content they would never need or use. Again, I would love to see this happen, nut chances are very very slim that this is happening. We are too few in numbers really to be a target customer for those games. The only thing I can see happening is maybe them adding reading out loud in all menus and stuff so that it is easier to navigate. This should be easy to do and would not really cost more, I assume. They already have subtitles for hearing impaired gamers but the adjustments for that group are so much easier anyway, because you do not have to change the game itself at all. chrissy -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 5:50 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. Hi Chrissy, Weather it works or not I think the main point of this lawsuit should be to make Sony and some of these major companies aware that accessible mainstream video games are possible, and that we would like them to take us seriously as a group interested in purchasing their video games. It is important to remember these companies, Sony in this case, repeatedly ignores requests for accessibility features, and won't even give a person a reasonable response when asked about accessibility. Here is a case in point. Back when the Play Station III was coming out I wrote them asking about possible accessibility features. I gave various suggestions in which they could improve the platform, improve accessibility, etc. However, the only response I got back was something to the effect thank you for your suggestions, but Sony can not endorse or accept new ideas for game titles, or improvements for existing game titles. I can't remember the reply word for word, but it was pretty clear they hadn't even read my e-mail.Even if they had it looked like something drafted by a team of lawyers to serve as a one size fits all type of canned answer they send everybody. Indeed I sent a few more e-mails and got basically the same message multiple times sent out by a different customer service rep. So what are we suppose to do to get these peoples attention? The bottom line is Sony, and probably various other companies, have customer service reps --- low level peons --- to basically tell the average Joe Smith to take a hike. So It is very doubtful anyone with any real authority saw my message, and I am assuming this person who is suing Sony got the exact same treatment. The first thing the Sony movers and shakers probably knew of this is when they got hit with the lawsuit, and that is because they hired peons to stone wall anyone who has a serious suggestion or complaint about their products. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
Hi Bryan, Perhaps, but I don't see any other way to bring the issue to a head. Many of us, myself included, hope that Sony, Microsoft, Activision, Capcom, Edos, Nintendo, you name it would create fully accessible video games. That's not going to happen through talking to them, and national agencies like NFB, AFB, ACB, etc have no interest in getting involved in a dispute over game accessibility issues. Weather this case negatively effects us or not remains to be seen, but we do need a way to bring these people to the table to at least talk about the issues. Unfortunately, taking them to court isn't going to make them any more willing to discuss the issues honestly, and in fact might make them even more unwilling to do so. Bryan Peterson wrote: Even if we win there's every chance it'll just increase the reputation we already have in some quarters as demanding, spoiled brats. I know one or two folks like that. Even if we win it could be detremental to us. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
That's exactly my point. This might be our only option but I have a very strong feeling that it's only going to give us even more of a bad reputation than we already have in some quarters. Our only remaining option it seems is also the one that could and most likely will be our downfall. Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 10:05 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. Hi Bryan, Perhaps, but I don't see any other way to bring the issue to a head. Many of us, myself included, hope that Sony, Microsoft, Activision, Capcom, Edos, Nintendo, you name it would create fully accessible video games. That's not going to happen through talking to them, and national agencies like NFB, AFB, ACB, etc have no interest in getting involved in a dispute over game accessibility issues. Weather this case negatively effects us or not remains to be seen, but we do need a way to bring these people to the table to at least talk about the issues. Unfortunately, taking them to court isn't going to make them any more willing to discuss the issues honestly, and in fact might make them even more unwilling to do so. Bryan Peterson wrote: Even if we win there's every chance it'll just increase the reputation we already have in some quarters as demanding, spoiled brats. I know one or two folks like that. Even if we win it could be detremental to us. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
That's true tom regarding getting in touch with companies. I actually spoke to a capcom rep on the phone, and he was less than helpful. When I phoned Nintendo Uk asking about access to the wiimote menue system, I got a much more useful person, who appreciated the problem and actually tested various methods for me. However, that conversation ended in a big road block, because even though it wouldn't be difficult for Nintendo to make a basic upgrade to the wii to have a standardized menue system as an alternative to using the wiimote, Nintendo Uk actually couldn't get in touch with the developement team in Japan or the Us to tell them, even if they wanted to. And that was working with an extremely nice and cooperative person from Nintendo Uk in the first place. Even getting the phone number of Nintendo's Uk office was something of an adventure (sinse of course they're X directory), required me to sweet talk first a mail order service (who luckily I've used on several occasions), and then a whole sale despatcher. While i'm completely unsure that suing companies is the right way to go, I'm stil not certain how anyone, even major organizations like the game accessibility project can actually talk to the people that matter about game access. this is why, both from extensive personal experience talking to companies about access, I'm stil convinced the future of accessible games lies with the independent developers like Nielsbaur (see the latest news on audiogames.net for more on them), and 7-128, and all those web games we've been playing. I'm actually amazed how quickly some developers, such as coops of core exiles are in responding to reasonable access suggestions. I'm not saying that the game accessibility project etc shouldn't try to contact the mainstream companies, I'm just very scheptical of how much actual good it will do given their truly insan burocracy. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
Hi Bryan, That's just it though. A small time developer hasn't a chance of competing with a multi million dollar mainstream game company for a number of reasons. For one reason the major game platforms like the Play Station is closed to everyone except a select few major players in the game industry. Believe me I should know. I once looked into developing games for my Play Station II, contacted Sony about how to go about it, and found out more than I wanted to know. First of all it costs several thousand dollars to license, obtain, and use the Play Station platform development kits. Then, Sony has a certain specification all games must follow in order to qualify for development on the platform. If they don't meet those specifications and qualifications Sony will not allow you to release said game for their platform. So they call all of the shots in terms of what games can and can not even be released for the Play Station. Then, there are legal documents, special non-disclosure agreements, etc up the butt to waid through and sign. in short, after several thousand dollars, several months of development, lots of paperwork and legal wrangling, Sony may review your game and decide it doesn't meet specifications, and will not qualify for official release until Sony decides to approve the title. Basically, my point is that the Sony Play Station has never been designed for the casual or small time game developer. You have to be a major player, big game developer, to even afford the licenses and obtain the development tools necessary to create a game for the Play Station in the first place. Even then you have little say in the matter as Sony has to approve your title, approve any changes that doesn't meet with current specifications, etc. So if you want to add this or that which might make the game more accessible but happens to violate their specifications the game will not be accepted until that feature is removed. sucks doesn't it? So in my own way I sympathize with this lawsuit. Sony has created an impossible standard for a small time developer like myself, have shut us out completely from developing on there platform, and adopted standards and specifications that take absolutely no consideration for accessibility features. Unless Sony decides to adopt accessibility the Play Station and their games will remain as they currently are. Which either by accident or design happens to be about the most accessible game console out there right now if you want to work at it. Talk about irony. Bryan Peterson wrote: Let's face it people, mainstream accessibility is probably never going to happen even though the technology is and probably has been there for a lot of years. Or if it does it's going to take a small time developer developing an accessible game so groundbreaking that the mainstream devs can't help but take notice. And even should that happen, let's face it. The dev or devs might still not be convinced. Or they'd try and find some way to get the dev responsible for this groundbreaking title to cease any future development, be it hush money or something else just so they didn't have any competition. Not necessarily very realistic I'll admit but who really knows what a big corporation will do these days if they feel threatened? Even if the developer was not in violation of any copyrights they might still take issue. And anyway they'd have to develop said title for one of the major gaming platforms. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
See that I would think would be the place to start. Nintendo at least seems open to the idea. If enough information and evidence were ever able to be provided it just might sway them in our favor. And if Nintendo made the change it MIGHT sway other devs. But I realize that might be difficult if not next to impossible. I only wish we didn't have to resort to this method. Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 10:32 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. That's true tom regarding getting in touch with companies. I actually spoke to a capcom rep on the phone, and he was less than helpful. When I phoned Nintendo Uk asking about access to the wiimote menue system, I got a much more useful person, who appreciated the problem and actually tested various methods for me. However, that conversation ended in a big road block, because even though it wouldn't be difficult for Nintendo to make a basic upgrade to the wii to have a standardized menue system as an alternative to using the wiimote, Nintendo Uk actually couldn't get in touch with the developement team in Japan or the Us to tell them, even if they wanted to. And that was working with an extremely nice and cooperative person from Nintendo Uk in the first place. Even getting the phone number of Nintendo's Uk office was something of an adventure (sinse of course they're X directory), required me to sweet talk first a mail order service (who luckily I've used on several occasions), and then a whole sale despatcher. While i'm completely unsure that suing companies is the right way to go, I'm stil not certain how anyone, even major organizations like the game accessibility project can actually talk to the people that matter about game access. this is why, both from extensive personal experience talking to companies about access, I'm stil convinced the future of accessible games lies with the independent developers like Nielsbaur (see the latest news on audiogames.net for more on them), and 7-128, and all those web games we've been playing. I'm actually amazed how quickly some developers, such as coops of core exiles are in responding to reasonable access suggestions. I'm not saying that the game accessibility project etc shouldn't try to contact the mainstream companies, I'm just very scheptical of how much actual good it will do given their truly insan burocracy. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
I know that all too well. THe best and most ideal solution is also the least possible and not merely for the reasons you outlined regarding the hardware being closed to all but a few. It would take years to develop an accessible game that would actually capture the mainstream media's attention and by extention that of the mainstream gaming industry. Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 10:42 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. Hi Bryan, That's just it though. A small time developer hasn't a chance of competing with a multi million dollar mainstream game company for a number of reasons. For one reason the major game platforms like the Play Station is closed to everyone except a select few major players in the game industry. Believe me I should know. I once looked into developing games for my Play Station II, contacted Sony about how to go about it, and found out more than I wanted to know. First of all it costs several thousand dollars to license, obtain, and use the Play Station platform development kits. Then, Sony has a certain specification all games must follow in order to qualify for development on the platform. If they don't meet those specifications and qualifications Sony will not allow you to release said game for their platform. So they call all of the shots in terms of what games can and can not even be released for the Play Station. Then, there are legal documents, special non-disclosure agreements, etc up the butt to waid through and sign. in short, after several thousand dollars, several months of development, lots of paperwork and legal wrangling, Sony may review your game and decide it doesn't meet specifications, and will not qualify for official release until Sony decides to approve the title. Basically, my point is that the Sony Play Station has never been designed for the casual or small time game developer. You have to be a major player, big game developer, to even afford the licenses and obtain the development tools necessary to create a game for the Play Station in the first place. Even then you have little say in the matter as Sony has to approve your title, approve any changes that doesn't meet with current specifications, etc. So if you want to add this or that which might make the game more accessible but happens to violate their specifications the game will not be accepted until that feature is removed. sucks doesn't it? So in my own way I sympathize with this lawsuit. Sony has created an impossible standard for a small time developer like myself, have shut us out completely from developing on there platform, and adopted standards and specifications that take absolutely no consideration for accessibility features. Unless Sony decides to adopt accessibility the Play Station and their games will remain as they currently are. Which either by accident or design happens to be about the most accessible game console out there right now if you want to work at it. Talk about irony. Bryan Peterson wrote: Let's face it people, mainstream accessibility is probably never going to happen even though the technology is and probably has been there for a lot of years. Or if it does it's going to take a small time developer developing an accessible game so groundbreaking that the mainstream devs can't help but take notice. And even should that happen, let's face it. The dev or devs might still not be convinced. Or they'd try and find some way to get the dev responsible for this groundbreaking title to cease any future development, be it hush money or something else just so they didn't have any competition. Not necessarily very realistic I'll admit but who really knows what a big corporation will do these days if they feel threatened? Even if the developer was not in violation of any copyrights they might still take issue. And anyway they'd have to develop said title for one of the major gaming platforms. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read
[Audyssey] Future of accessible games
My own personal belief, is that what will change access will also be the force which will change the Uk libraries thinking on accessible books, - time. There is no point denying, %70 of visually impared people are over the age of 60, - and %50 are over the age of 70. Currently, that comprises people who grew up in the 1940's and 50's. such people are not naturally interested in science fiction, fantasy or, by extention computer games. At a recent doctor who convention however, the oldest people there were my dad's age, betwene 50 and 60, having grown up in the 1960's, much like my parents, they watched Doctor who, original Startrek, Blake 7, quatermass, buck rogers etc. Over the next ten years, that group of people will start to lose their sight, and will have significantly different reading interests to those who grew up ten years earlier. thus, sf books and films will have to be made accessible for them. Similarly, people who grew up in the 1970's with the Atari 2600 etc; playing games like Joust, space invaders, original If etc, are currently 40 or so. the head of retroremakes.com, a die hard gamer if there ever was one, is himself 40. In 20 years, when these people begin to lose their sight, they aren't going to want to give up life long gaming hobbies simply because they can no longer see. At that stage, game companies, both mainstream and independent will suddenly have a group of older customers who will demand games, --- and, as Bryan said earlier, it won't be quite so devorced from public consciousness when grandma Jones wants to play her atari but can't because she can no longer see the screen. Game companies and independent developers have already produced adaptations for both deaf and physically impared people, but (even with deafness), in these cases they are disabilities which affect a larger proportion of younger people who are themselves playing and buying computer games. Were circumstances reversed, I could well imagine those self same people on gamespot who said a blind person playing a graphical game was impossible, would say it was similarly impossible for someone who was paralized from the kneck down to play graphical games, yet head tracker adapTations for pc games and the wii eXIST, AND WHILE NOT PERFECT, CERTAINLY ALLOW PEOPLE WITH SUCH DISABILITIES TO PLAY MORE GAMES THAN PEOPLE WITH VISUAL IMPAREMENT CAN. I'm thus very much of the opinion that the situation will indeed change, - though convincing game companies (or library services for that matter), of the truth of this is something of an uphill struggle currently. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
Well, I admit I was only suggesting a small change, merely the ability to access Wii menues by the standard up down arrows method which has been used in games for years, rather than having to use the Wiimote to point at specific areas of the screen which I find near impossible. It would be an easy change to make, and sinse the wii software is continually updated by downloadable content, not impossible to implement either. However reasonable the suggestion though, it's no good if it can't be made with the right person. In independent games, I've actually been able to talk to developers, - I've been having an onrunning conversation by in game pm with Coops of core exiles for a while now, and everyone who's played the game has seen the results of that in the labled buttons, not that I'm trying to brag, I'm just saying that had I not been able to talk to coops himself, this wouldn't have happened. Short of learning Japanese, getting a plane to Japan and employing a team of gun toting gangsters to break into nintendo's dev offices, I've no idea how to actually get to talk access with them. Though that actually doesn't sound like a bad plan, hmmm, I wonder if the Yacusa do a disability concessionary rate on armed raides? You make your games accessible, or you don't make anymore games, - ever! beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 5:44 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. See that I would think would be the place to start. Nintendo at least seems open to the idea. If enough information and evidence were ever able to be provided it just might sway them in our favor. And if Nintendo made the change it MIGHT sway other devs. But I realize that might be difficult if not next to impossible. I only wish we didn't have to resort to this method. Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 10:32 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. That's true tom regarding getting in touch with companies. I actually spoke to a capcom rep on the phone, and he was less than helpful. When I phoned Nintendo Uk asking about access to the wiimote menue system, I got a much more useful person, who appreciated the problem and actually tested various methods for me. However, that conversation ended in a big road block, because even though it wouldn't be difficult for Nintendo to make a basic upgrade to the wii to have a standardized menue system as an alternative to using the wiimote, Nintendo Uk actually couldn't get in touch with the developement team in Japan or the Us to tell them, even if they wanted to. And that was working with an extremely nice and cooperative person from Nintendo Uk in the first place. Even getting the phone number of Nintendo's Uk office was something of an adventure (sinse of course they're X directory), required me to sweet talk first a mail order service (who luckily I've used on several occasions), and then a whole sale despatcher. While i'm completely unsure that suing companies is the right way to go, I'm stil not certain how anyone, even major organizations like the game accessibility project can actually talk to the people that matter about game access. this is why, both from extensive personal experience talking to companies about access, I'm stil convinced the future of accessible games lies with the independent developers like Nielsbaur (see the latest news on audiogames.net for more on them), and 7-128, and all those web games we've been playing. I'm actually amazed how quickly some developers, such as coops of core exiles are in responding to reasonable access suggestions. I'm not saying that the game accessibility project etc shouldn't try to contact the mainstream companies, I'm just very scheptical of how much actual good it will do given their truly insan burocracy. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
Or we could get Magic Emperor Ghaleon from the Lunar seires of RPG's. LOL. I don't think Ghaleon would give a rat's behind. He'd be more interested in becoming god of all creation. Then again he did redeem himself in the second game in the series... Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 11:22 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. Well, I admit I was only suggesting a small change, merely the ability to access Wii menues by the standard up down arrows method which has been used in games for years, rather than having to use the Wiimote to point at specific areas of the screen which I find near impossible. It would be an easy change to make, and sinse the wii software is continually updated by downloadable content, not impossible to implement either. However reasonable the suggestion though, it's no good if it can't be made with the right person. In independent games, I've actually been able to talk to developers, - I've been having an onrunning conversation by in game pm with Coops of core exiles for a while now, and everyone who's played the game has seen the results of that in the labled buttons, not that I'm trying to brag, I'm just saying that had I not been able to talk to coops himself, this wouldn't have happened. Short of learning Japanese, getting a plane to Japan and employing a team of gun toting gangsters to break into nintendo's dev offices, I've no idea how to actually get to talk access with them. Though that actually doesn't sound like a bad plan, hmmm, I wonder if the Yacusa do a disability concessionary rate on armed raides? You make your games accessible, or you don't make anymore games, - ever! beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 5:44 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. See that I would think would be the place to start. Nintendo at least seems open to the idea. If enough information and evidence were ever able to be provided it just might sway them in our favor. And if Nintendo made the change it MIGHT sway other devs. But I realize that might be difficult if not next to impossible. I only wish we didn't have to resort to this method. Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 10:32 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. That's true tom regarding getting in touch with companies. I actually spoke to a capcom rep on the phone, and he was less than helpful. When I phoned Nintendo Uk asking about access to the wiimote menue system, I got a much more useful person, who appreciated the problem and actually tested various methods for me. However, that conversation ended in a big road block, because even though it wouldn't be difficult for Nintendo to make a basic upgrade to the wii to have a standardized menue system as an alternative to using the wiimote, Nintendo Uk actually couldn't get in touch with the developement team in Japan or the Us to tell them, even if they wanted to. And that was working with an extremely nice and cooperative person from Nintendo Uk in the first place. Even getting the phone number of Nintendo's Uk office was something of an adventure (sinse of course they're X directory), required me to sweet talk first a mail order service (who luckily I've used on several occasions), and then a whole sale despatcher. While i'm completely unsure that suing companies is the right way to go, I'm stil not certain how anyone, even major organizations like the game accessibility project can actually talk to the people that matter about game access. this is why, both from extensive personal experience talking to companies about access, I'm stil convinced the future of accessible games lies with the independent developers like Nielsbaur (see the latest news on audiogames.net for more on them), and 7-128, and all those web games we've been playing. I'm actually amazed how quickly some developers, such as coops of core exiles are in responding to reasonable access suggestions. I'm not saying that the game accessibility project etc shouldn't try to contact the mainstream companies, I'm just very scheptical of how much actual good it will do given their truly insan burocracy. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list,
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
Well, if it's a matter of sicking game characters on them, my vote would be to feed them to an extremely angry king Bowser! Lets see what they think of game access when their being chased by a fireball spitting turtle in an extremely ill humourr! I think Bowser would be up for the idea too, - afterall, who is it who makes certain he always loses to Mario? ;D. beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 6:34 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. Or we could get Magic Emperor Ghaleon from the Lunar seires of RPG's. LOL. I don't think Ghaleon would give a rat's behind. He'd be more interested in becoming god of all creation. Then again he did redeem himself in the second game in the series... Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
Or perhaps even the four Sinistrals from the Lufia games. Well Erim at any rate since it's been proven that she at least has tendencies toward good unlike her brothers. Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 11:40 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. Well, if it's a matter of sicking game characters on them, my vote would be to feed them to an extremely angry king Bowser! Lets see what they think of game access when their being chased by a fireball spitting turtle in an extremely ill humourr! I think Bowser would be up for the idea too, - afterall, who is it who makes certain he always loses to Mario? ;D. beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 6:34 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. Or we could get Magic Emperor Ghaleon from the Lunar seires of RPG's. LOL. I don't think Ghaleon would give a rat's behind. He'd be more interested in becoming god of all creation. Then again he did redeem himself in the second game in the series... Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] game creation toolkit
Hi, I'm just wondering how the game creation toolkit is coming along? Josh send email to myself at jkenn...@gmail.com www.satogo.com Get klango at www.klango.net it's free! Get NVDA www.nvda-project.org it's free! Grab Ubuntu at www.ubuntu.com it's free! and www.twitter.com/jkenn337 follow-me-on-twitter. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
Hi Tom, Do you think it would cost more or less money for a game company like Sony to make purely accessible games from scratch, then to make a regular title for the sighted? My thought is this, could a game company set up a dedicated department that makes just accessible games that would probably cost less then a regular title to make, enough of these accisible games could propel the buying of console systems with peripherals among the blind and disabled community. The accessible titles could probably be sold for the same price as sighted games but with a larger profit perhaps? Maybe I am just being naive here, what do you and others think? al --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Top Speed 2 Cars and Tracks revisited
I believe you said the utility pack isn't available for download anymore? The reason for this is the Top Speed 2.1 update; this update includes the utility pack already installed with it. Also, it has some great additions to the tracks, cars, and menu system, which has been consolidated beautifully. Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Dakotah Rickard Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 12:47 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Top Speed 2 Cars and Tracks revisited I hope those files have my stuff in them. If not, can someone try to locate a file called topspeed2mods.zip? Or something like that. I only ask because I don't want to lose my own creations. Signed: Dakotah Rickard On 11/6/09, Richard Sherman squir...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, Here are two files you can grab to replenish your cars and tracks inventory. http://squirman.jzeller.org/59_Tracks.zip http://squirman.jzeller.org/66_Cars.zip HTH. rich - Original Message - From: Dakotah Rickard Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 10:50 AM Right now it seems that the top speed 2 utilities pack download feature is unavailable. A while back, I posted a missive to this list requesting information concerning my huge zip file of cars and tracks. I lost a lot of junk on my old computer when it crashed and would like to be able to play my own cars, as well as those from the other people I came into contact with, on similarly created tracks. If anyone has info about that file or where to obtain something similar, I'd appreciate it. Signed: Dakotah Rickard --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game creation toolkit
Hi Josh, I am currently waiting for some code to be completed by another programmer, but development is very much active and I will keep you all up to date as much as possible on the tool's progress. Kind regards, PhilipB ennefall - Original Message - From: Josh jkenn...@gmail.com To: gamers list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 7:45 PM Subject: [Audyssey] game creation toolkit Hi, I'm just wondering how the game creation toolkit is coming along? Josh send email to myself at jkenn...@gmail.com www.satogo.com Get klango at www.klango.net it's free! Get NVDA www.nvda-project.org it's free! Grab Ubuntu at www.ubuntu.com it's free! and www.twitter.com/jkenn337 follow-me-on-twitter. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.52/2485 - Release Date: 11/06/09 19:39:00 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Top Speed 2 Cars and Tracks revisited
No. I said that the utility pack doesn't download anymore. Plus, I don't believe my cars and tracks made it up there anyway. Thanks for the attempt, but I'm now mostly focused on trying to get my own stuff back, and the ts2 utility pack isn't really that helpful for that. Signed: Dakotah Rickard On 11/7/09, Hayden Presley hdpres...@hotmail.com wrote: I believe you said the utility pack isn't available for download anymore? The reason for this is the Top Speed 2.1 update; this update includes the utility pack already installed with it. Also, it has some great additions to the tracks, cars, and menu system, which has been consolidated beautifully. Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Dakotah Rickard Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 12:47 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Top Speed 2 Cars and Tracks revisited I hope those files have my stuff in them. If not, can someone try to locate a file called topspeed2mods.zip? Or something like that. I only ask because I don't want to lose my own creations. Signed: Dakotah Rickard On 11/6/09, Richard Sherman squir...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, Here are two files you can grab to replenish your cars and tracks inventory. http://squirman.jzeller.org/59_Tracks.zip http://squirman.jzeller.org/66_Cars.zip HTH. rich - Original Message - From: Dakotah Rickard Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 10:50 AM Right now it seems that the top speed 2 utilities pack download feature is unavailable. A while back, I posted a missive to this list requesting information concerning my huge zip file of cars and tracks. I lost a lot of junk on my old computer when it crashed and would like to be able to play my own cars, as well as those from the other people I came into contact with, on similarly created tracks. If anyone has info about that file or where to obtain something similar, I'd appreciate it. Signed: Dakotah Rickard --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
Well I am coming in late on this thread but I agree with Tom here, I applaude this guy for trying to do this, the only way that major companies like Sony are going to pay attention to us at all is if they fear that we will hit them in their pocketbooks. Face it people, the bottom line is all they care about period, they are not developing games out of the goodness of their hearts they are doing it to make money, that is all. We are not a big enough market for them to take us seriously or fear whatever we do or don't do in the least, so unfortunately, and I do mean that when I say it, a lawsuit is almost certainly the only way to get any amount of their attention. Having said all this, I also agree with Tom that you should pick your fights carefully and be sure you can finish what you start, I am not sure this guy is doing that. Frankly I am surprised he found a lawyer who was willing to take it on unless the lawyer figures that Sony will offer up a nice juicy settlement to shut the guy up. That is the only reason I can think of. IF this thing gets to a jury trial which I doubt I am afraid they are going to be in trouble. Nonetheless I wish them the best of luck because as Tom said very well before, this is probbaly the only way to get these guys to the table in any sort of a serious manner to discuss these issues. The playstation 3 is fairly useable even as it is if you want to do some memorization and work at it, even if we got any concessions at all such as voiced menus and prompts when on the main screens that would be a major victory in my opinion. Tom -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 7:51 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. Hi Yohandy, This is definitely an interesting development. Although, I think it is probably going to be in vain. Too much rides on the fact the case is based on a week legal standpoint to begin with, and to top that off the general public is totally clueless about game accessibility as well. Based on the comments I've read about this article on the site this case is extremely unpopular among the general readership on Gamespot.com. Most of the comments of the readership are way off the mark, and only proves my point they are completely ignorant of game accessibility issues. For one thing one of the comments came out and said, how can a blind guy play a video game? The comment went on to state that that is impossible, we can't because we are blind, and ended with the conclusion there is no way Sony could ever make their video games accessible to a blind gamer. The authors entire premise was completely false, based on a lack of credible evidence otherwise, and most of the comments that follows are more of the same sort of misinformed logic. If we assume the general public holds this sort of attitude it is no wonder we have this kind of problem gaining access to games and other forms of multimedia software. One thing that did come from this article is what people really think about us when they don't think we are paying attention to what they say. I found several comments very insulting, misinformed, and out and out lacking concern for our needs or desires. The comments about we should get a job instead of trying to play video games was extremely insulting and unsympathetic. It seams the person who said that forgets plenty of sighted gamers are able to happily work a regular nine to five job and come home and play his/her favorite games too. Anyway, getting back to the point, I don't see this case really going anywhere. Sony is a very major player in the video games industry, and I've personally spoken to them on a few ocations about accessibility for the Play Station II and Play Station III. I got the typical we can't discuss our future plans answer and of course half the time I got a reply that we don't take end user suggestions for new game titles. It was as though they didn't even read my e-mails to them, and they just sent out some canned answer they had drafted as an all purpose response. It was very clear to me Sony doesn't care about accessibility in the least, and try to give anyone the brush off if and when they can. I certainly applaud this persons tenacity in taking on Sony in court, but he has very little hope of really winning this one. First, he has to prove that what he seeks is possible, and that may require a programmer's point of view on what can and can't be done. Which most programmers aren't taught any kind of accessibility in college, and most are pretty misinformed on various ways they can improve the accessibility of their software products. Second, he is using the ADA in a way that really doesn't apply to video games. This alone is a major strike against his case. Third, the general public doesn't really care about blind
[Audyssey] lite-tek interactive?
Hi, Is lite-tek interactive still up and going? Or is it permanently dead? Josh send email to myself at jkenn...@gmail.com www.satogo.com Get klango at www.klango.net it's free! Get NVDA www.nvda-project.org it's free! Grab Ubuntu at www.ubuntu.com it's free! and www.twitter.com/jkenn337 follow-me-on-twitter. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
The brutal truth is Alan, there currently are simply not enough visually impared gamers to make it worth their while. Even paripherals such as head track devices are not made by the big name companies, - and indeed the companies do not put direct support for such things in their games. About the only support features they do add for any disability is subtitles, - which more often than not is simply a consequence of the game's originally being published in Japanese with japanese speech (as making subtitles is a cheaper option than recording english voice acting), - ditto for French, Spanish, german and other languages too. As has been said, while it's quick and easy to chat to an independent developer about adding access features to their games, big game companies simply do not care sinse it won't line their pockits anymore. I'll skip my left wing wrant, but ultimately, that is the main problem. It is always cheaper to do nothing than something! this is why I'm firmly of the belief we wont' see significant access changes in mainstream games until a larger proportion of customers becomes disabled themselves, - and possibly not even then. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Allan Thompson allan1.thomp...@cox.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 6:50 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. Hi Tom, Do you think it would cost more or less money for a game company like Sony to make purely accessible games from scratch, then to make a regular title for the sighted? My thought is this, could a game company set up a dedicated department that makes just accessible games that would probably cost less then a regular title to make, enough of these accisible games could propel the buying of console systems with peripherals among the blind and disabled community. The accessible titles could probably be sold for the same price as sighted games but with a larger profit perhaps? Maybe I am just being naive here, what do you and others think? al --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
Hello, I do not believe creating accessible games from scratch would be considered viable by any of the game developers. Blindness is a very low incidence group which only effects .6% of the population of any technologically advanced country, and up to .8% of non-technologically advanced countries. I use to work as an accessibility consultant for a few companies which develop consumer electronics. Companies are primarily only interested if they can make a profit. Only very small companies which are trying to break in to the market typically consider our extremely small numbers as being a viable market segment. Some of you may remember the Sharp Talking Time I, one of the best pocket talking clocks which came out in the early 80's. Within a couple years, Sharp took it off the market. That clock was very popular amongst blind people. We purchased several tens of thousands of them. That clock was not very popular among any other market segment. Sharp needed several hundred thousand sales to consider the product as viable. The numbers which we can bring to any mainstream product are currently no where near enough for the company to consider us as a viable profit-making group for targeting. Note: Apple is the only large mainstream company that I am aware of which has adopted blindness accessibility across its entire product line as a corporate position. I do hope other large companies follow Apple's lead, but have my doubts for the near future. David Chittenden, MS, CRC, MRCAA Allan Thompson wrote: Hi Tom, Do you think it would cost more or less money for a game company like Sony to make purely accessible games from scratch, then to make a regular title for the sighted? My thought is this, could a game company set up a dedicated department that makes just accessible games that would probably cost less then a regular title to make, enough of these accisible games could propel the buying of console systems with peripherals among the blind and disabled community. The accessible titles could probably be sold for the same price as sighted games but with a larger profit perhaps? Maybe I am just being naive here, what do you and others think? al --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
doubtful. that article grabbed people's interest for a few days, then completely died and was never mentioned. A good idea could be for everyone to write to people like Ed Boon on twitter and let him know how awesome and accessible his MK series is and suggest any improvements. Twitter might be the way to go since everyone seems to be using it nowadays. What were the odds of any of us getting in contact with MK's lead developer before people got interested in twitter? none probably. So let's take advantage of this opportunity guys and let's make ourselves known to these people. Harmonix also has twitter accounts, and they've shown some interest towards accessibility for the blind. I remember Brandon posted to their message boards and he even got a reply from harmonix devs if I'm not mistaken. SO instead of sitting here and discussing this among ourselves, let's do something about it. Ed Boon's twitter name: noobde - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 12:03 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. It's even more depressing when you consider the almost overwhelmingly positive response to the last article pertaining to us that was posted on Gamespot. Of course that was about games developed for and by blind folks and not about mainstream games being made accessible. Grrr! If only this guy hadn't filed this riddiculous lawsuit! We MIGHT have had a chance of getting somewhere. Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:58 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. Hi Scott, Indeed the case seams pretty weak. He and his lawyers are reaching with their suit. So it will be very interesting to see how the judge, if it goes that far, will decide the legal ramifications of this case. I too agree that media support would not be of much help. I've read the comments too, and most of them were pretty discouraging. It seams the general mainstream gaming community could care less about accessibility. If we are getting a response like that on a major forum like Game Spot we can hardly expect national or international media attention to be much better. I'm afraid Sony has the upper hand in this one. Scott Chesworth wrote: Meh, while I wouldn't push it anywhere near as far as the comments on the actual gamespot page did, I do have an incling that this is both A) doomed to fail and B) a pretty dodgy case in the first place assuming the people this guy is taking on weren't a giant with ridiculously highly paid lawyers at their beck and call. I'm no law expert, but so far as I know the stretch he's trying for on both points is about as sound as a chocolate teapot, hence Sony will more than likely dismiss it as pesky and pay him off a bit if he's lucky. Of course, everything would be a different ball game if the media get hold of it and take this chaps side on a national or international level, but going on the comments thus far it's unlikely dontcha think. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
Hi Dark, Yeah, that is pretty much my experience as well. Nice or not all we are doing is contacting the low level peons who have no real power or authority. Even if they sympathize with our cause they are not able to refer us to a higher power, or are unable to do so. often it is just company policy to handle our queries at the gate and tell us to beat it. I'm still pretty upset over Lucasfilm's licensing policies. It took me months to get some kind of contact information for Lucas Licensing, and even when I did it was all in vain. I quickly discovered there licensing is designed for mass market products like toys, games, whatever that is expected to sell millions of copies world wide. When I explained I could not afford their licensing and royalty fees do to the fact I was expecting to sell perhaps 1,000 to 2,000 units they shut me down pretty quick. It was made pretty clear that unless I had a mass market product I could sell, that might bring in millions of dollars for the company, I could forget it. I saw they only license to companies that have millions of dollars to spend on licenses and royalties, and I'm nothing but pocket change to them, and am not worth talking too. Never mind I was hoping to release a unique product, an accessible Star Wars game, they wouldn't get from anyone else. However, accessibility took a back seat to company policy and out and out greed. I often wonder, naturally, if George Lucas himself would have given me leave, or if he would have been as anal as his licensing department. I'm unlikely to know as there is no real easy way to contact him, and find out. He has, like so many other business men, put guards at the gate who handle the day to day business of the company.The same kind of problems exist when trying to contact Sony or any other major player in the video gaming market. You have to go through 10,000 layers of peons to get to someone who might be able to give you an answer. Even if you do you are likely to get the company line. dark wrote: That's true tom regarding getting in touch with companies. I actually spoke to a capcom rep on the phone, and he was less than helpful. When I phoned Nintendo Uk asking about access to the wiimote menue system, I got a much more useful person, who appreciated the problem and actually tested various methods for me. However, that conversation ended in a big road block, because even though it wouldn't be difficult for Nintendo to make a basic upgrade to the wii to have a standardized menue system as an alternative to using the wiimote, Nintendo Uk actually couldn't get in touch with the developement team in Japan or the Us to tell them, even if they wanted to. And that was working with an extremely nice and cooperative person from Nintendo Uk in the first place. Even getting the phone number of Nintendo's Uk office was something of an adventure (sinse of course they're X directory), required me to sweet talk first a mail order service (who luckily I've used on several occasions), and then a whole sale despatcher. While i'm completely unsure that suing companies is the right way to go, I'm stil not certain how anyone, even major organizations like the game accessibility project can actually talk to the people that matter about game access. this is why, both from extensive personal experience talking to companies about access, I'm stil convinced the future of accessible games lies with the independent developers like Nielsbaur (see the latest news on audiogames.net for more on them), and 7-128, and all those web games we've been playing. I'm actually amazed how quickly some developers, such as coops of core exiles are in responding to reasonable access suggestions. I'm not saying that the game accessibility project etc shouldn't try to contact the mainstream companies, I'm just very scheptical of how much actual good it will do given their truly insan burocracy. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
I suppose your right. Money is too important to the compaines to bother with us, and the governments don't have to worry about us as a voters block...I guess all there really is is the kindness of strangers, or Every single game company board of directers suddenly becomeing blind. al - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. The brutal truth is Alan, there currently are simply not enough visually impared gamers to make it worth their while. Even paripherals such as head track devices are not made by the big name companies, - and indeed the companies do not put direct support for such things in their games. About the only support features they do add for any disability is subtitles, - which more often than not is simply a consequence of the game's originally being published in Japanese with japanese speech (as making subtitles is a cheaper option than recording english voice acting), - ditto for French, Spanish, german and other languages too. As has been said, while it's quick and easy to chat to an independent developer about adding access features to their games, big game companies simply do not care sinse it won't line their pockits anymore. I'll skip my left wing wrant, but ultimately, that is the main problem. It is always cheaper to do nothing than something! this is why I'm firmly of the belief we wont' see significant access changes in mainstream games until a larger proportion of customers becomes disabled themselves, - and possibly not even then. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Allan Thompson allan1.thomp...@cox.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 6:50 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. Hi Tom, Do you think it would cost more or less money for a game company like Sony to make purely accessible games from scratch, then to make a regular title for the sighted? My thought is this, could a game company set up a dedicated department that makes just accessible games that would probably cost less then a regular title to make, enough of these accisible games could propel the buying of console systems with peripherals among the blind and disabled community. The accessible titles could probably be sold for the same price as sighted games but with a larger profit perhaps? Maybe I am just being naive here, what do you and others think? al --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
Hi, Thanks for those statistics. It puts things into perspective a bit better. Well, I suppose all of us will have to buy large amounts of lottery tickets , win a bunch of money, and start our own accessible video game making company, grin. al - Original Message - From: David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 5:02 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. Hello, I do not believe creating accessible games from scratch would be considered viable by any of the game developers. Blindness is a very low incidence group which only effects .6% of the population of any technologically advanced country, and up to .8% of non-technologically advanced countries. I use to work as an accessibility consultant for a few companies which develop consumer electronics. Companies are primarily only interested if they can make a profit. Only very small companies which are trying to break in to the market typically consider our extremely small numbers as being a viable market segment. Some of you may remember the Sharp Talking Time I, one of the best pocket talking clocks which came out in the early 80's. Within a couple years, Sharp took it off the market. That clock was very popular amongst blind people. We purchased several tens of thousands of them. That clock was not very popular among any other market segment. Sharp needed several hundred thousand sales to consider the product as viable. The numbers which we can bring to any mainstream product are currently no where near enough for the company to consider us as a viable profit-making group for targeting. Note: Apple is the only large mainstream company that I am aware of which has adopted blindness accessibility across its entire product line as a corporate position. I do hope other large companies follow Apple's lead, but have my doubts for the near future. David Chittenden, MS, CRC, MRCAA Allan Thompson wrote: Hi Tom, Do you think it would cost more or less money for a game company like Sony to make purely accessible games from scratch, then to make a regular title for the sighted? My thought is this, could a game company set up a dedicated department that makes just accessible games that would probably cost less then a regular title to make, enough of these accisible games could propel the buying of console systems with peripherals among the blind and disabled community. The accessible titles could probably be sold for the same price as sighted games but with a larger profit perhaps? Maybe I am just being naive here, what do you and others think? al --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
That sounds par for the course. this is why I'm firmly of the belief that the major companies simply will not considder accessibility any time soon, and the best hope for accessible games lies with independent developers, - who will probably value the sales of their games to the Vi gaming community, rather than disregard it. I'm working very hard to stop myself going into a left wing wrant against the stupidity of unregulated mutlinational consumer companies having no compunction about even basic ethical issues when it comes to prophet, sinse that's liable to start another major debate on the subject of free markit capitalism in general I won't. suffice it to say, that while the almighty prophet margin is the only standard used to make company policy, accessibility will always take a prety major back seat. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 10:41 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. Hi Dark, Yeah, that is pretty much my experience as well. Nice or not all we are doing is contacting the low level peons who have no real power or authority. Even if they sympathize with our cause they are not able to refer us to a higher power, or are unable to do so. often it is just company policy to handle our queries at the gate and tell us to beat it. I'm still pretty upset over Lucasfilm's licensing policies. It took me months to get some kind of contact information for Lucas Licensing, and even when I did it was all in vain. I quickly discovered there licensing is designed for mass market products like toys, games, whatever that is expected to sell millions of copies world wide. When I explained I could not afford their licensing and royalty fees do to the fact I was expecting to sell perhaps 1,000 to 2,000 units they shut me down pretty quick. It was made pretty clear that unless I had a mass market product I could sell, that might bring in millions of dollars for the company, I could forget it. I saw they only license to companies that have millions of dollars to spend on licenses and royalties, and I'm nothing but pocket change to them, and am not worth talking too. Never mind I was hoping to release a unique product, an accessible Star Wars game, they wouldn't get from anyone else. However, accessibility took a back seat to company policy and out and out greed. I often wonder, naturally, if George Lucas himself would have given me leave, or if he would have been as anal as his licensing department. I'm unlikely to know as there is no real easy way to contact him, and find out. He has, like so many other business men, put guards at the gate who handle the day to day business of the company.The same kind of problems exist when trying to contact Sony or any other major player in the video gaming market. You have to go through 10,000 layers of peons to get to someone who might be able to give you an answer. Even if you do you are likely to get the company line. dark wrote: That's true tom regarding getting in touch with companies. I actually spoke to a capcom rep on the phone, and he was less than helpful. When I phoned Nintendo Uk asking about access to the wiimote menue system, I got a much more useful person, who appreciated the problem and actually tested various methods for me. However, that conversation ended in a big road block, because even though it wouldn't be difficult for Nintendo to make a basic upgrade to the wii to have a standardized menue system as an alternative to using the wiimote, Nintendo Uk actually couldn't get in touch with the developement team in Japan or the Us to tell them, even if they wanted to. And that was working with an extremely nice and cooperative person from Nintendo Uk in the first place. Even getting the phone number of Nintendo's Uk office was something of an adventure (sinse of course they're X directory), required me to sweet talk first a mail order service (who luckily I've used on several occasions), and then a whole sale despatcher. While i'm completely unsure that suing companies is the right way to go, I'm stil not certain how anyone, even major organizations like the game accessibility project can actually talk to the people that matter about game access. this is why, both from extensive personal experience talking to companies about access, I'm stil convinced the future of accessible games lies with the independent developers like Nielsbaur (see the latest news on audiogames.net for more on them), and 7-128, and all those web games we've been playing. I'm actually amazed how quickly some developers, such as coops of core exiles are in responding to reasonable access suggestions. I'm not saying that the game accessibility project etc shouldn't try to contact the mainstream
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
Well, at least in the Uk, voter lobbying doesn't play as major a part in politics as it does in the us, but I do take your point. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Allan Thompson allan1.thomp...@cox.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 11:18 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. I suppose your right. Money is too important to the compaines to bother with us, and the governments don't have to worry about us as a voters block...I guess all there really is is the kindness of strangers, or Every single game company board of directers suddenly becomeing blind. al - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. The brutal truth is Alan, there currently are simply not enough visually impared gamers to make it worth their while. Even paripherals such as head track devices are not made by the big name companies, - and indeed the companies do not put direct support for such things in their games. About the only support features they do add for any disability is subtitles, - which more often than not is simply a consequence of the game's originally being published in Japanese with japanese speech (as making subtitles is a cheaper option than recording english voice acting), - ditto for French, Spanish, german and other languages too. As has been said, while it's quick and easy to chat to an independent developer about adding access features to their games, big game companies simply do not care sinse it won't line their pockits anymore. I'll skip my left wing wrant, but ultimately, that is the main problem. It is always cheaper to do nothing than something! this is why I'm firmly of the belief we wont' see significant access changes in mainstream games until a larger proportion of customers becomes disabled themselves, - and possibly not even then. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Allan Thompson allan1.thomp...@cox.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 6:50 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. Hi Tom, Do you think it would cost more or less money for a game company like Sony to make purely accessible games from scratch, then to make a regular title for the sighted? My thought is this, could a game company set up a dedicated department that makes just accessible games that would probably cost less then a regular title to make, enough of these accisible games could propel the buying of console systems with peripherals among the blind and disabled community. The accessible titles could probably be sold for the same price as sighted games but with a larger profit perhaps? Maybe I am just being naive here, what do you and others think? al --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] twitter and accessible games
Hi, A lot of the big game companies are now on twitter and facebook. lets take advantage of this and get in touch wiith them. Josh send email to myself at jkenn...@gmail.com www.satogo.com Get klango at www.klango.net it's free! Get NVDA www.nvda-project.org it's free! Grab Ubuntu at www.ubuntu.com it's free! and www.twitter.com/jkenn337 follow-me-on-twitter. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] RPG Character sheet management software
Have just sort of finished off putting together my small piece of software to manage a character sheet for a version of role playing called RuneQuest: http://www.runequest.za.org/ It's basically a different version of dungeons and dragons FWIW, and my app is only really made to let me do better than using my laptop to edit a text file, along with a small dice rolling app I made before, but it basically builds a sort of dynamic interface based on an XML character data sheet, and I suppose could also be used easily enough, without too much modification to just carry out a form of info management since it literally builds the user interface based on the data in the XML text file, but is a little focused on the role playing functionality in that, for example, the dice rolling functionality is hard coded into it, although the various dice rolling ranges/options are also populated from a separate XML file to allow editing when not in the development environment. Anyway, this bit of software lets you load new blank characters, edit the info including adding categories of information, editing these categories, and items and then lets you save the character sheets for future reference/reuse etc. It's done in newish microsoft technology - .Net framework 3.5 development environment, so might need an up to date computer to use it, but runs fine on both my XP home work machine as well as my windows 7 work machine, but they both have the development software installed on them, and I haven't gotten around to putting together any form of installation package as of yet since literally finished it off around 20 minutes ago - currently around 2AM Sunday morning this side, but thought might as well post a message here to find out if anyone would be interested in something like this at all. Also, while the interface is meant to also be usable/useful for sighted people, I haven't yet had a sighted person try it out for me to see how the dynamic interface generation affects the look/feel/layout of it, since didn't do too much general windows development in the old days either, but it works fine for me along with both jaws and NVDA, but suppose might not look too good for a sightie...LOL! (did try use things like window width percentages to try do what I think should look alright, but in the old days when could see mostly worked on webpages anyway) It also sort of implements a tiny bit of re-use of your screenreader/MS TTS voices to say things sometimes, but, the primary one you might notice is that when it's loaded it'll initially tell you the name of the character spoken even if you run a screen reader or not. Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4582 (20091107) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] RPG Character sheet management software
hi. i'm really interested in it! can you please create a installer for it and upload it to your web site, or to something like sendspace,or dropbox? or even if you don't wana create a installer, just zipping the files it's ok for me.. hmm, and and what link should i click in this site that you pasted www.runequest.com to play the game that will use these things(the dice,the cheet with the character management, etc)? thanks so much! -Mensagem original- De: Jacob Kruger jac...@mailzone.co.za Para: gamers@audyssey.org Data: Domingo, 8 de Novembro de 2009 02:09 Assunto: [Audyssey] RPG Character sheet management software Have just sort of finished off putting together my small piece of software to manage a character sheet for a version of role playing called RuneQuest: http://www.runequest.za.org/ It's basically a different version of dungeons and dragons FWIW, and my app is only really made to let me do better than using my laptop to edit a text file, along with a small dice rolling app I made before, but it basically builds a sort of dynamic interface based on an XML character data sheet, and I suppose could also be used easily enough, without too much modification to just carry out a form of info management since it literally builds the user interface based on the data in the XML text file, but is a little focused on the role playing functionality in that, for example, the dice rolling functionality is hard coded into it, although the various dice rolling ranges/options are also populated from a separate XML file to allow editing when not in the development environment. Anyway, this bit of software lets you load new blank characters, edit the info including adding categories of information, editing these categories, and items and then lets you save the character sheets for future reference/reuse etc. It's done in newish microsoft technology - .Net framework 3.5 development environment, so might need an up to date computer to use it, but runs fine on both my XP home work machine as well as my windows 7 work machine, but they both have the development software installed on them, and I haven't gotten around to putting together any form of installation package as of yet since literally finished it off around 20 minutes ago - currently around 2AM Sunday morning this side, but thought might as well post a message here to find out if anyone would be interested in something like this at all. Also, while the interface is meant to also be usable/useful for sighted people, I haven't yet had a sighted person try it out for me to see how the dynamic interface generation affects the look/feel/layout of it, since didn't do too much general windows development in the old days either, but it works fine for me along with both jaws and NVDA, but suppose might not look too good for a sightie...LOL! (did try use things like window width percentages to try do what I think should look alright, but in the old days when could see mostly worked on webpages anyway) It also sort of implements a tiny bit of re-use of your screenreader/MS TTS voices to say things sometimes, but, the primary one you might notice is that when it's loaded it'll initially tell you the name of the character spoken even if you run a screen reader or not. Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4582 (20091107) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Future of accessible games
Hi Dark, Yes, your opinion holds a lot of truth, and I don't doubt as the so-called baby boomer generation reaches into their 60's and 70's things will begin changing for the better for us. My dad has just turned 60 and he grew up watching the original Star Trek, Lost in Space, Time Tunnel, and other science fiction programs. Plus during the 80's when the Atari was at its height he would now and again play games with me as well as my mom. So they certainly were no strangers to a good arcade game or two, and my friends parents would play some Atari games as well. As a result video games has touched that generation although maybe not as much as those of my generation. When we talk about my generation, those who played the original Atari all the time, we are now are in our 30's and 40's. We have kids of our own playing the latest XBox and Play Station titles, and our kids are carrying on our video game playing traditions. Many of us in our 30's and 40's still enjoy a good video game or two, and we aren't getting any younger. Sooner or later we are going to be the Grandma and Grandpa Jones of tomorrow. At that point accessible video games, talking microwaves, the availability of certain types of books, whatever is going to become in more demand. Those who didn't grow up with video games such as my grandparents generation don't really care about talking microwaves, accessible Star Wars books, or the latest video game. However, when my generation replaces them as the elderly suddenly it may turn out to be a different story. You mentioned a good point about how the interests and expectations of one generation can be very different even if it is separated by no more than 10 or 15 years. This reminds me of our discussion about side-scrollers. A game like Megaman certainly changed from its origins in the 1980's and what was available 10-years later in the 1990's. A kid born in the 70's who played the original Megaman would no doubt treasure it as one of the great classics of the 1980's. However, a kid born in the 80's and grew up playing the newer 90's versions would find the original boring, lacking features, and pretty over rated. That's just a small example of how views about what is and is not of interest can change when it comes to gaming in a relatively short amount of time. Anyway, as you pointed out as our generation aproaches our 60's more and more content that isn't accessible today may become so later on when it is in more demand. This is definitely the long view, but it is all a matter of supply and demand. We will see how those people who commented on the Gamespot.com article feel in 20 or 30 years when their sight is failing, they need glasses, the screen is fuzzy, and it isn't quite as easy to play. When it effects that group as a whole the shoe will be finally on the other foot, and they'll think back on what they said in their youth. They may live to eat their own words. dark wrote: My own personal belief, is that what will change access will also be the force which will change the Uk libraries thinking on accessible books, - time. There is no point denying, %70 of visually impared people are over the age of 60, - and %50 are over the age of 70. Currently, that comprises people who grew up in the 1940's and 50's. such people are not naturally interested in science fiction, fantasy or, by extention computer games. At a recent doctor who convention however, the oldest people there were my dad's age, betwene 50 and 60, having grown up in the 1960's, much like my parents, they watched Doctor who, original Startrek, Blake 7, quatermass, buck rogers etc. Over the next ten years, that group of people will start to lose their sight, and will have significantly different reading interests to those who grew up ten years earlier. thus, sf books and films will have to be made accessible for them. Similarly, people who grew up in the 1970's with the Atari 2600 etc; playing games like Joust, space invaders, original If etc, are currently 40 or so. the head of retroremakes.com, a die hard gamer if there ever was one, is himself 40. In 20 years, when these people begin to lose their sight, they aren't going to want to give up life long gaming hobbies simply because they can no longer see. At that stage, game companies, both mainstream and independent will suddenly have a group of older customers who will demand games, --- and, as Bryan said earlier, it won't be quite so devorced from public consciousness when grandma Jones wants to play her atari but can't because she can no longer see the screen. Game companies and independent developers have already produced adaptations for both deaf and physically impared people, but (even with deafness), in these cases they are disabilities which affect a larger proportion of younger people who are themselves playing and buying computer games. Were circumstances
Re: [Audyssey] RPG Character sheet management software
Hi Jacob. would it be possible to make such applications for use with gamebooks? applications which would both hold a character's stats, and roll the necessary dice in combat? there are quite a few gamebooks online in which it's necessary to physically keep a status sheet and roll dice, and this process could be considderably sped up by use of an application. The most common system used in downloadable gamebooks is the Fighting fantasy system, a very functional but basic system the rules of which can be read on http://www.arborell.com/ a site which itself features html gamebooks with in built character sheet etc (though other ff adventures are downloadable which do not have the convenience of being on that site). There is also the slightly more complex system featured in the incredibly high quality gamebooks on www.arborell.com itself, and indeed a far more complex system stil, which runs over the many gamebooks in the Lonewolf series, found on www.projectaon.org which already has a couple of apps written for it, neither of which is sadly accessible as one features dodgy java, and the other uses microsoft silverlight. Something to help in any of these series would be welcomed by both Vi and sighted people I think, sinse accept for the lonewolf series on project aon, - none have any sort of application support in the way of stat keeping or dice rolling. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Jacob Kruger jac...@mailzone.co.za To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 12:09 AM Subject: [Audyssey] RPG Character sheet management software Have just sort of finished off putting together my small piece of software to manage a character sheet for a version of role playing called RuneQuest: http://www.runequest.za.org/ It's basically a different version of dungeons and dragons FWIW, and my app is only really made to let me do better than using my laptop to edit a text file, along with a small dice rolling app I made before, but it basically builds a sort of dynamic interface based on an XML character data sheet, and I suppose could also be used easily enough, without too much modification to just carry out a form of info management since it literally builds the user interface based on the data in the XML text file, but is a little focused on the role playing functionality in that, for example, the dice rolling functionality is hard coded into it, although the various dice rolling ranges/options are also populated from a separate XML file to allow editing when not in the development environment. Anyway, this bit of software lets you load new blank characters, edit the info including adding categories of information, editing these categories, and items and then lets you save the character sheets for future reference/reuse etc. It's done in newish microsoft technology - .Net framework 3.5 development environment, so might need an up to date computer to use it, but runs fine on both my XP home work machine as well as my windows 7 work machine, but they both have the development software installed on them, and I haven't gotten around to putting together any form of installation package as of yet since literally finished it off around 20 minutes ago - currently around 2AM Sunday morning this side, but thought might as well post a message here to find out if anyone would be interested in something like this at all. Also, while the interface is meant to also be usable/useful for sighted people, I haven't yet had a sighted person try it out for me to see how the dynamic interface generation affects the look/feel/layout of it, since didn't do too much general windows development in the old days either, but it works fine for me along with both jaws and NVDA, but suppose might not look too good for a sightie...LOL! (did try use things like window width percentages to try do what I think should look alright, but in the old days when could see mostly worked on webpages anyway) It also sort of implements a tiny bit of re-use of your screenreader/MS TTS voices to say things sometimes, but, the primary one you might notice is that when it's loaded it'll initially tell you the name of the character spoken even if you run a screen reader or not. Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4582 (20091107) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org
Re: [Audyssey] RPG Character sheet management software
Sorry, but rune quest is literally a real life version of dungeons and dragons, so you play it along with other human players, and a real dungeon master etc. etc., and we generally also socialise a bit while doing it - my character is called Bork! The Boar Slayer. Anyway, if you just want to try it to see if it'll run, here's a download link for the program files, but the one other thing am using is SayTools: http://www.empowermentzone.com/saysetup.exe and you might need to install it first as well. Anyway, here's the link to the small zip file, and this isn't finished off yet, but let me know if it works at all: http://www.blindza.co.za/RQ/RQStripped.zip (it's small - around 97kb) The actual program file is RQCharacterWindows.exe Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: matheus an...@bol.com.br To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 3:28 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] RPG Character sheet management software hi. i'm really interested in it! can you please create a installer for it and upload it to your web site, or to something like sendspace,or dropbox? or even if you don't wana create a installer, just zipping the files it's ok for me.. hmm, and and what link should i click in this site that you pasted www.runequest.com to play the game that will use these things(the dice,the cheet with the character management, etc)? thanks so much! -Mensagem original- De: Jacob Kruger jac...@mailzone.co.za Para: gamers@audyssey.org Data: Domingo, 8 de Novembro de 2009 02:09 Assunto: [Audyssey] RPG Character sheet management software Have just sort of finished off putting together my small piece of software to manage a character sheet for a version of role playing called RuneQuest: http://www.runequest.za.org/ It's basically a different version of dungeons and dragons FWIW, and my app is only really made to let me do better than using my laptop to edit a text file, along with a small dice rolling app I made before, but it basically builds a sort of dynamic interface based on an XML character data sheet, and I suppose could also be used easily enough, without too much modification to just carry out a form of info management since it literally builds the user interface based on the data in the XML text file, but is a little focused on the role playing functionality in that, for example, the dice rolling functionality is hard coded into it, although the various dice rolling ranges/options are also populated from a separate XML file to allow editing when not in the development environment. Anyway, this bit of software lets you load new blank characters, edit the info including adding categories of information, editing these categories, and items and then lets you save the character sheets for future reference/reuse etc. It's done in newish microsoft technology - .Net framework 3.5 development environment, so might need an up to date computer to use it, but runs fine on both my XP home work machine as well as my windows 7 work machine, but they both have the development software installed on them, and I haven't gotten around to putting together any form of installation package as of yet since literally finished it off around 20 minutes ago - currently around 2AM Sunday morning this side, but thought might as well post a message here to find out if anyone would be interested in something like this at all. Also, while the interface is meant to also be usable/useful for sighted people, I haven't yet had a sighted person try it out for me to see how the dynamic interface generation affects the look/feel/layout of it, since didn't do too much general windows development in the old days either, but it works fine for me along with both jaws and NVDA, but suppose might not look too good for a sightie...LOL! (did try use things like window width percentages to try do what I think should look alright, but in the old days when could see mostly worked on webpages anyway) It also sort of implements a tiny bit of re-use of your screenreader/MS TTS voices to say things sometimes, but, the primary one you might notice is that when it's loaded it'll initially tell you the name of the character spoken even if you run a screen reader or not. Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4582 (20091107) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org
Re: [Audyssey] RPG Character sheet management software
spoken even if you run a screen reader or not. Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4582 (20091107) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4582 (20091107) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4582 (20091107) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] RPG Character sheet management software
Oh, yes, should also have said, that if you want to know how to edit data etc., hit F1 key after program is loaded and it'll bring up a message box telling you all the relevant shortcut keys. Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: matheus an...@bol.com.br To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 3:28 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] RPG Character sheet management software hi. i'm really interested in it! can you please create a installer for it and upload it to your web site, or to something like sendspace,or dropbox? or even if you don't wana create a installer, just zipping the files it's ok for me.. hmm, and and what link should i click in this site that you pasted www.runequest.com to play the game that will use these things(the dice,the cheet with the character management, etc)? thanks so much! -Mensagem original- De: Jacob Kruger jac...@mailzone.co.za Para: gamers@audyssey.org Data: Domingo, 8 de Novembro de 2009 02:09 Assunto: [Audyssey] RPG Character sheet management software Have just sort of finished off putting together my small piece of software to manage a character sheet for a version of role playing called RuneQuest: http://www.runequest.za.org/ It's basically a different version of dungeons and dragons FWIW, and my app is only really made to let me do better than using my laptop to edit a text file, along with a small dice rolling app I made before, but it basically builds a sort of dynamic interface based on an XML character data sheet, and I suppose could also be used easily enough, without too much modification to just carry out a form of info management since it literally builds the user interface based on the data in the XML text file, but is a little focused on the role playing functionality in that, for example, the dice rolling functionality is hard coded into it, although the various dice rolling ranges/options are also populated from a separate XML file to allow editing when not in the development environment. Anyway, this bit of software lets you load new blank characters, edit the info including adding categories of information, editing these categories, and items and then lets you save the character sheets for future reference/reuse etc. It's done in newish microsoft technology - .Net framework 3.5 development environment, so might need an up to date computer to use it, but runs fine on both my XP home work machine as well as my windows 7 work machine, but they both have the development software installed on them, and I haven't gotten around to putting together any form of installation package as of yet since literally finished it off around 20 minutes ago - currently around 2AM Sunday morning this side, but thought might as well post a message here to find out if anyone would be interested in something like this at all. Also, while the interface is meant to also be usable/useful for sighted people, I haven't yet had a sighted person try it out for me to see how the dynamic interface generation affects the look/feel/layout of it, since didn't do too much general windows development in the old days either, but it works fine for me along with both jaws and NVDA, but suppose might not look too good for a sightie...LOL! (did try use things like window width percentages to try do what I think should look alright, but in the old days when could see mostly worked on webpages anyway) It also sort of implements a tiny bit of re-use of your screenreader/MS TTS voices to say things sometimes, but, the primary one you might notice is that when it's loaded it'll initially tell you the name of the character spoken even if you run a screen reader or not. Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4582 (20091107) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
Hi Dark, Hahahaha! That would be seriously funny. Talk about getting media attention. Blind man heads armed raid against world renown video game company. I can see the head lines now. Seriously though, a major part of the problem is that there are different cultural views about blindness to concidder here. I don't know if this opinion is held by all Japanese people, but I once was told by someone from Japan that in her country a blind person is expected to stay home where his family can tend to him, take care of him, and not mingal with the rest of society as we do. As you might expect I was a bit upset at this opinion, dim view of blind people, but conciddering the fact this girl grew up in that culture, was raised that way, it is a opinion that apparently hasn't been challenged openly in that country as it has been in the USA and UK. If we assume this girl is telling me the truth then the developers of Sony, Nintendo, etc that are Japanese may not be open to accessibility do to their narrow cultural view of the subject to begin with. This is a far more serious problem than the subject of game accessibility itself. Sad to say many countries don't share the USA's concept of human rights. We have gotten so use to demanding equal rights for women, disabilities, race, whatever that we forget many countries don't share our views. There are plenty of places in the world we would concidder backward that treat women little better than slaves, a person with a disability has no rights at all, and if you are of another race you are an outcast. So accessibility really becomes a global problem in the long run. dark wrote: Well, I admit I was only suggesting a small change, merely the ability to access Wii menues by the standard up down arrows method which has been used in games for years, rather than having to use the Wiimote to point at specific areas of the screen which I find near impossible. It would be an easy change to make, and sinse the wii software is continually updated by downloadable content, not impossible to implement either. However reasonable the suggestion though, it's no good if it can't be made with the right person. In independent games, I've actually been able to talk to developers, - I've been having an onrunning conversation by in game pm with Coops of core exiles for a while now, and everyone who's played the game has seen the results of that in the labled buttons, not that I'm trying to brag, I'm just saying that had I not been able to talk to coops himself, this wouldn't have happened. Short of learning Japanese, getting a plane to Japan and employing a team of gun toting gangsters to break into nintendo's dev offices, I've no idea how to actually get to talk access with them. Though that actually doesn't sound like a bad plan, hmmm, I wonder if the Yacusa do a disability concessionary rate on armed raides? You make your games accessible, or you don't make anymore games, - ever! beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
Hi, Lol! That is a pretty cool idea. Somehow bring all of the enemy game character's to life and let them take out their frustrations on their creators. Anyone up for seeing Donkey Kong pounding a few developers for letting Mario beat him too? dark wrote: Well, if it's a matter of sicking game characters on them, my vote would be to feed them to an extremely angry king Bowser! Lets see what they think of game access when their being chased by a fireball spitting turtle in an extremely ill humourr! I think Bowser would be up for the idea too, - afterall, who is it who makes certain he always loses to Mario? beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Future of accessible games
On the subject of gaming taste changing though Tom, I'm not precisely as convinced, as frequently a classic remains so. as an extreme example, I devote considderable time to learning and performing the works of Gilbert and sullivan. These are now about 110 years old, yet, though they contain some jokes which are out of context and need explaining, have much which is stil incredibly funny, and musically interesting today. likewise, my first Mega man game was Mega man X2, first released in 1993 for the Snes (though I didn't play it until the year 2000). This has all the features of 90's Mega man, contrasting stages, hidden bosses, two levels of charge for your weapon, many hidden items and extras, and even multiple plot paths depending upon which bosses you managed to defeat. Stil however, when I finally got to play the original Mega man in 206 with the release of the Aniversary collection, I found it a truly fantastic and playable game, despite having few of the features of mmx2. To give a more accessible example, and one which people here will be familiar with, my brother first played the printed lone wolf books in the 1980's while he was at school. Thanks to Project aon's online versions, I can now play them myself, and find them to be highly playable and truly fantastic. The only point of aging perhaps is the occasional sexism, but as with Gilbert and sullivan, that can be overlooked (and having strong moral views on the subject I'm probably more sensative to it than most). On the other hand, despite being a major fan of the series, the original nes Metroid is the only Metroid game I find absolutely unplayable, due to it's control issues, and lack of basic features such as the ability to duck or fire downwards. I also have had many issues with the original dungeon crawl style interactive fiction adventures, sinse I find the puzles problematic and often frustrating. On both of these points though, there are people, some of whome are my own age or younger, who would disagree profusely. while to an extent your right about generational taste, it does also seem that something well made will always be recognized as such by people who it appeals tomorrow's to. Btw, I'm surprised you use talking microwaves as an example. My Godfather, who was in his 60's died last year, and actualy left me a talking microwave in his will. while it's not something I'd have naturally used myself, sinse i've always been quite happy with the access to the dile variety, I am glad of it now that I have it. Beware the Grue!¬ Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] RPG Character sheet management software
wow. great work in this app! it will certain help peoples with gamebooks! infact, i'm going to search for gamebooks to play now! i'm really interested in getting started with that. i already was, but the idea of having always to create a text file, open another program to roll the dice, etc made me want to think again and didn't even start. the only suggestion that i have, is to put in the dice selection combo box more options, actualy there are only 3 options from what i see. 1-6, 1-20 and 1-100. is there a way to add more options to that? and congratulations again for creating this awesome program.. -Mensagem original- De: Jacob Kruger jac...@mailzone.co.za Para: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Data: Domingo, 8 de Novembro de 2009 02:53 Assunto: Re: [Audyssey] RPG Character sheet management software Oh, yes, should also have said, that if you want to know how to edit data etc., hit F1 key after program is loaded and it'll bring up a message box telling you all the relevant shortcut keys. Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: matheus an...@bol.com.br To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 3:28 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] RPG Character sheet management software hi. i'm really interested in it! can you please create a installer for it and upload it to your web site, or to something like sendspace,or dropbox? or even if you don't wana create a installer, just zipping the files it's ok for me.. hmm, and and what link should i click in this site that you pasted www.runequest.com to play the game that will use these things(the dice,the cheet with the character management, etc)? thanks so much! -Mensagem original- De: Jacob Kruger jac...@mailzone.co.za Para: gamers@audyssey.org Data: Domingo, 8 de Novembro de 2009 02:09 Assunto: [Audyssey] RPG Character sheet management software Have just sort of finished off putting together my small piece of software to manage a character sheet for a version of role playing called RuneQuest: http://www.runequest.za.org/ It's basically a different version of dungeons and dragons FWIW, and my app is only really made to let me do better than using my laptop to edit a text file, along with a small dice rolling app I made before, but it basically builds a sort of dynamic interface based on an XML character data sheet, and I suppose could also be used easily enough, without too much modification to just carry out a form of info management since it literally builds the user interface based on the data in the XML text file, but is a little focused on the role playing functionality in that, for example, the dice rolling functionality is hard coded into it, although the various dice rolling ranges/options are also populated from a separate XML file to allow editing when not in the development environment. Anyway, this bit of software lets you load new blank characters, edit the info including adding categories of information, editing these categories, and items and then lets you save the character sheets for future reference/reuse etc. It's done in newish microsoft technology - .Net framework 3.5 development environment, so might need an up to date computer to use it, but runs fine on both my XP home work machine as well as my windows 7 work machine, but they both have the development software installed on them, and I haven't gotten around to putting together any form of installation package as of yet since literally finished it off around 20 minutes ago - currently around 2AM Sunday morning this side, but thought might as well post a message here to find out if anyone would be interested in something like this at all. Also, while the interface is meant to also be usable/useful for sighted people, I haven't yet had a sighted person try it out for me to see how the dynamic interface generation affects the look/feel/layout of it, since didn't do too much general windows development in the old days either, but it works fine for me along with both jaws and NVDA, but suppose might not look too good for a sightie...LOL! (did try use things like window width percentages to try do what I think should look alright, but in the old days when could see mostly worked on webpages anyway) It also sort of implements a tiny bit of re-use of your screenreader/MS TTS voices to say things sometimes, but, the primary one you might notice is that when it's loaded it'll initially tell you the name of the character spoken even if you run a screen reader or not. Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4582 (20091107) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list
Re: [Audyssey] RPG Character sheet management software
it out for me to see how the dynamic interface generation affects the look/feel/layout of it, since didn't do too much general windows development in the old days either, but it works fine for me along with both jaws and NVDA, but suppose might not look too good for a sightie...LOL! (did try use things like window width percentages to try do what I think should look alright, but in the old days when could see mostly worked on webpages anyway) It also sort of implements a tiny bit of re-use of your screenreader/MS TTS voices to say things sometimes, but, the primary one you might notice is that when it's loaded it'll initially tell you the name of the character spoken even if you run a screen reader or not. Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4582 (20091107) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4582 (20091107) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4582 (20091107) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
Funny Tom, my university has an exchange going with the university ot tokio, and I've never had any problems with the Japanese I've met, indeed I got to become quite good friends with one girl at my light opera society. Also, my mum, who is a physio for disabled children did a demonstration once of some equipment she was pioneering to some Japanese businessmen, who were great both about the physical disability issue, and about my mum and I both being visually impared (they actually invited me to go and look them up if I ever traveled to Japan). I'm guessing that like every country though, there are mixed views. You might actually be surprised to learn, that the general view of Vi people in the Uk is actually pretty shoddy, both in governmental and business terms, and among the general public. For a long while it was the accepted belief that blind people should go to specific institutions and stay there out of sight, and indeed members of the public can be quite resentful of Vi people for not staying inside some sort of institution. This has resulted in a lot of Uk blind people going to special schools, and growing up quite isolated from everyone who isn't in the blind cleaque, and disability services who say things like well disabled people aren't the best judges of what they can or cannot do I am for instance the only officially registered blind student in Durham uni currently, and I usually get on with sorting matters myself if they need sorting. This is also why I'm attempting to create a new and useable deffinition of disability in my phd, which I can then apply to solve various dilemmas, such as how a thing should or should not be judged as accessible. Before this turns into a long Ot wrant about my research though, I'll stop. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
Maybe this is the real reason Donkey kong got his own series of Donkey Kong country games on the Snes in the 90's, afterall, who'd want to irritate a 50 foot tall ape by making him a constant baddy! Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 1:04 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. Hi, Lol! That is a pretty cool idea. Somehow bring all of the enemy game character's to life and let them take out their frustrations on their creators. Anyone up for seeing Donkey Kong pounding a few developers for letting Mario beat him too? dark wrote: Well, if it's a matter of sicking game characters on them, my vote would be to feed them to an extremely angry king Bowser! Lets see what they think of game access when their being chased by a fireball spitting turtle in an extremely ill humourr! I think Bowser would be up for the idea too, - afterall, who is it who makes certain he always loses to Mario? beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
Perhaps, but we as the blind gaming market would all have to band together to prove to them that such a thing would be cost-effective for them. That's the heart of the problem right there. And let's face it people, we're a distinct minority. Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. - Original Message - From: Allan Thompson allan1.thomp...@cox.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 11:50 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. Hi Tom, Do you think it would cost more or less money for a game company like Sony to make purely accessible games from scratch, then to make a regular title for the sighted? My thought is this, could a game company set up a dedicated department that makes just accessible games that would probably cost less then a regular title to make, enough of these accisible games could propel the buying of console systems with peripherals among the blind and disabled community. The accessible titles could probably be sold for the same price as sighted games but with a larger profit perhaps? Maybe I am just being naive here, what do you and others think? al --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] gamebooks on audiogames.net was: RPG Character sheet management software
Hi. this actually brings up a question, which I should probably ask the list. thus far, on the audiogames.net database, I've only included gamebook sites which actually provide html links betwene the pages, I've got another couple to add once the database is editable again (currently it's not been fixed from the audiogames.net crash). There are however, various sights I know which host pdf or text versions of full length books which i have not added to the database because strictly speaking they are not computer games as they don't really have any processing going on beyond opening the file. These are slightly less convenient, sinse obviously you have to find the text yourself as well as keeping stats etc, but if there's going to be a useable Ap to make this process easier, maybe I should reconsidder adding entries for these sights so that they can be easily found? What do people think? Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
Ugh. I hate Twitter. LOL. Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 3:24 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. doubtful. that article grabbed people's interest for a few days, then completely died and was never mentioned. A good idea could be for everyone to write to people like Ed Boon on twitter and let him know how awesome and accessible his MK series is and suggest any improvements. Twitter might be the way to go since everyone seems to be using it nowadays. What were the odds of any of us getting in contact with MK's lead developer before people got interested in twitter? none probably. So let's take advantage of this opportunity guys and let's make ourselves known to these people. Harmonix also has twitter accounts, and they've shown some interest towards accessibility for the blind. I remember Brandon posted to their message boards and he even got a reply from harmonix devs if I'm not mistaken. SO instead of sitting here and discussing this among ourselves, let's do something about it. Ed Boon's twitter name: noobde - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 12:03 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. It's even more depressing when you consider the almost overwhelmingly positive response to the last article pertaining to us that was posted on Gamespot. Of course that was about games developed for and by blind folks and not about mainstream games being made accessible. Grrr! If only this guy hadn't filed this riddiculous lawsuit! We MIGHT have had a chance of getting somewhere. Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:58 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. Hi Scott, Indeed the case seams pretty weak. He and his lawyers are reaching with their suit. So it will be very interesting to see how the judge, if it goes that far, will decide the legal ramifications of this case. I too agree that media support would not be of much help. I've read the comments too, and most of them were pretty discouraging. It seams the general mainstream gaming community could care less about accessibility. If we are getting a response like that on a major forum like Game Spot we can hardly expect national or international media attention to be much better. I'm afraid Sony has the upper hand in this one. Scott Chesworth wrote: Meh, while I wouldn't push it anywhere near as far as the comments on the actual gamespot page did, I do have an incling that this is both A) doomed to fail and B) a pretty dodgy case in the first place assuming the people this guy is taking on weren't a giant with ridiculously highly paid lawyers at their beck and call. I'm no law expert, but so far as I know the stretch he's trying for on both points is about as sound as a chocolate teapot, hence Sony will more than likely dismiss it as pesky and pay him off a bit if he's lucky. Of course, everything would be a different ball game if the media get hold of it and take this chaps side on a national or international level, but going on the comments thus far it's unlikely dontcha think. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
That'll be the day LOL. Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. - Original Message - From: Allan Thompson allan1.thomp...@cox.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 4:18 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. I suppose your right. Money is too important to the compaines to bother with us, and the governments don't have to worry about us as a voters block...I guess all there really is is the kindness of strangers, or Every single game company board of directers suddenly becomeing blind. al - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. The brutal truth is Alan, there currently are simply not enough visually impared gamers to make it worth their while. Even paripherals such as head track devices are not made by the big name companies, - and indeed the companies do not put direct support for such things in their games. About the only support features they do add for any disability is subtitles, - which more often than not is simply a consequence of the game's originally being published in Japanese with japanese speech (as making subtitles is a cheaper option than recording english voice acting), - ditto for French, Spanish, german and other languages too. As has been said, while it's quick and easy to chat to an independent developer about adding access features to their games, big game companies simply do not care sinse it won't line their pockits anymore. I'll skip my left wing wrant, but ultimately, that is the main problem. It is always cheaper to do nothing than something! this is why I'm firmly of the belief we wont' see significant access changes in mainstream games until a larger proportion of customers becomes disabled themselves, - and possibly not even then. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Allan Thompson allan1.thomp...@cox.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 6:50 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. Hi Tom, Do you think it would cost more or less money for a game company like Sony to make purely accessible games from scratch, then to make a regular title for the sighted? My thought is this, could a game company set up a dedicated department that makes just accessible games that would probably cost less then a regular title to make, enough of these accisible games could propel the buying of console systems with peripherals among the blind and disabled community. The accessible titles could probably be sold for the same price as sighted games but with a larger profit perhaps? Maybe I am just being naive here, what do you and others think? al --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Future of accessible games
I'm the same way. My mom and dad are 54 and 55 respectively, and both have occasionally tried their hand at video games, my dad more than my mom. Then about six years ago I brought my Game Cube out to Idaho for them to try and lo and behold they ended up buying one for themselves that following Christmas. Now they also own a Wii. Ironic since my mom used to hate video games with a passion and now she and my dad bowl on the Wii most weekends. Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 5:37 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Future of accessible games Hi Dark, Yes, your opinion holds a lot of truth, and I don't doubt as the so-called baby boomer generation reaches into their 60's and 70's things will begin changing for the better for us. My dad has just turned 60 and he grew up watching the original Star Trek, Lost in Space, Time Tunnel, and other science fiction programs. Plus during the 80's when the Atari was at its height he would now and again play games with me as well as my mom. So they certainly were no strangers to a good arcade game or two, and my friends parents would play some Atari games as well. As a result video games has touched that generation although maybe not as much as those of my generation. When we talk about my generation, those who played the original Atari all the time, we are now are in our 30's and 40's. We have kids of our own playing the latest XBox and Play Station titles, and our kids are carrying on our video game playing traditions. Many of us in our 30's and 40's still enjoy a good video game or two, and we aren't getting any younger. Sooner or later we are going to be the Grandma and Grandpa Jones of tomorrow. At that point accessible video games, talking microwaves, the availability of certain types of books, whatever is going to become in more demand. Those who didn't grow up with video games such as my grandparents generation don't really care about talking microwaves, accessible Star Wars books, or the latest video game. However, when my generation replaces them as the elderly suddenly it may turn out to be a different story. You mentioned a good point about how the interests and expectations of one generation can be very different even if it is separated by no more than 10 or 15 years. This reminds me of our discussion about side-scrollers. A game like Megaman certainly changed from its origins in the 1980's and what was available 10-years later in the 1990's. A kid born in the 70's who played the original Megaman would no doubt treasure it as one of the great classics of the 1980's. However, a kid born in the 80's and grew up playing the newer 90's versions would find the original boring, lacking features, and pretty over rated. That's just a small example of how views about what is and is not of interest can change when it comes to gaming in a relatively short amount of time. Anyway, as you pointed out as our generation aproaches our 60's more and more content that isn't accessible today may become so later on when it is in more demand. This is definitely the long view, but it is all a matter of supply and demand. We will see how those people who commented on the Gamespot.com article feel in 20 or 30 years when their sight is failing, they need glasses, the screen is fuzzy, and it isn't quite as easy to play. When it effects that group as a whole the shoe will be finally on the other foot, and they'll think back on what they said in their youth. They may live to eat their own words. dark wrote: My own personal belief, is that what will change access will also be the force which will change the Uk libraries thinking on accessible books, - time. There is no point denying, %70 of visually impared people are over the age of 60, - and %50 are over the age of 70. Currently, that comprises people who grew up in the 1940's and 50's. such people are not naturally interested in science fiction, fantasy or, by extention computer games. At a recent doctor who convention however, the oldest people there were my dad's age, betwene 50 and 60, having grown up in the 1960's, much like my parents, they watched Doctor who, original Startrek, Blake 7, quatermass, buck rogers etc. Over the next ten years, that group of people will start to lose their sight, and will have significantly different reading interests to those who grew up ten years earlier. thus, sf books and films will have to be made accessible for them. Similarly, people who grew up in the 1970's with the Atari 2600 etc; playing games like Joust, space invaders, original If etc, are currently 40 or so. the head of retroremakes.com, a die hard gamer if there ever was one, is himself 40. In 20 years, when these
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
Oh we sometimes get that here in the US as well Dark. I, too, have met a very large number of seemingly more inlightened Japanese individuals (usually teachers), who not only seemed open to the idea of blind students making the same way in the world as sighted folks but also seemed fascinated by our methods for getting along. I remember one time working with a Perkins brailler (although I happen to hate those things with a passion), and one of them came over and started trying to read it. Couldn't understand a word he was saying but it was still pretty neat. Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 6:26 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. Funny Tom, my university has an exchange going with the university ot tokio, and I've never had any problems with the Japanese I've met, indeed I got to become quite good friends with one girl at my light opera society. Also, my mum, who is a physio for disabled children did a demonstration once of some equipment she was pioneering to some Japanese businessmen, who were great both about the physical disability issue, and about my mum and I both being visually impared (they actually invited me to go and look them up if I ever traveled to Japan). I'm guessing that like every country though, there are mixed views. You might actually be surprised to learn, that the general view of Vi people in the Uk is actually pretty shoddy, both in governmental and business terms, and among the general public. For a long while it was the accepted belief that blind people should go to specific institutions and stay there out of sight, and indeed members of the public can be quite resentful of Vi people for not staying inside some sort of institution. This has resulted in a lot of Uk blind people going to special schools, and growing up quite isolated from everyone who isn't in the blind cleaque, and disability services who say things like well disabled people aren't the best judges of what they can or cannot do I am for instance the only officially registered blind student in Durham uni currently, and I usually get on with sorting matters myself if they need sorting. This is also why I'm attempting to create a new and useable deffinition of disability in my phd, which I can then apply to solve various dilemmas, such as how a thing should or should not be judged as accessible. Before this turns into a long Ot wrant about my research though, I'll stop. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
Well as I said Bryan, you get mixed views in any country, but the Us, both from what I know of their government policy, the number of American Vi people I've talked to, and the Americans I've met overhere does seem generally better on disability than the Uk. I remember once having an american stage director who was first appauled by the fact that she was the first director who was willing to have me as a Vi person on stage, and then she was equally appauled by the fact that the other people in the production treated me as though i didn't exist, --- and I explained that I was well used to this treatment. But this is once again getting Ot so I'll stop. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 1:51 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. Oh we sometimes get that here in the US as well Dark. I, too, have met a very large number of seemingly more inlightened Japanese individuals (usually teachers), who not only seemed open to the idea of blind students making the same way in the world as sighted folks but also seemed fascinated by our methods for getting along. I remember one time working with a Perkins brailler (although I happen to hate those things with a passion), and one of them came over and started trying to read it. Couldn't understand a word he was saying but it was still pretty neat. Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 6:26 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online. Funny Tom, my university has an exchange going with the university ot tokio, and I've never had any problems with the Japanese I've met, indeed I got to become quite good friends with one girl at my light opera society. Also, my mum, who is a physio for disabled children did a demonstration once of some equipment she was pioneering to some Japanese businessmen, who were great both about the physical disability issue, and about my mum and I both being visually impared (they actually invited me to go and look them up if I ever traveled to Japan). I'm guessing that like every country though, there are mixed views. You might actually be surprised to learn, that the general view of Vi people in the Uk is actually pretty shoddy, both in governmental and business terms, and among the general public. For a long while it was the accepted belief that blind people should go to specific institutions and stay there out of sight, and indeed members of the public can be quite resentful of Vi people for not staying inside some sort of institution. This has resulted in a lot of Uk blind people going to special schools, and growing up quite isolated from everyone who isn't in the blind cleaque, and disability services who say things like well disabled people aren't the best judges of what they can or cannot do I am for instance the only officially registered blind student in Durham uni currently, and I usually get on with sorting matters myself if they need sorting. This is also why I'm attempting to create a new and useable deffinition of disability in my phd, which I can then apply to solve various dilemmas, such as how a thing should or should not be judged as accessible. Before this turns into a long Ot wrant about my research though, I'll stop. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
Re: [Audyssey] Top Speed 2 Cars and Tracks revisited
Oh, I see what you mean now; true the Utility pack would not help you getting your cars and tracks back. Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Dakotah Rickard Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 2:53 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Top Speed 2 Cars and Tracks revisited No. I said that the utility pack doesn't download anymore. Plus, I don't believe my cars and tracks made it up there anyway. Thanks for the attempt, but I'm now mostly focused on trying to get my own stuff back, and the ts2 utility pack isn't really that helpful for that. Signed: Dakotah Rickard On 11/7/09, Hayden Presley hdpres...@hotmail.com wrote: I believe you said the utility pack isn't available for download anymore? The reason for this is the Top Speed 2.1 update; this update includes the utility pack already installed with it. Also, it has some great additions to the tracks, cars, and menu system, which has been consolidated beautifully. Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Dakotah Rickard Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 12:47 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Top Speed 2 Cars and Tracks revisited I hope those files have my stuff in them. If not, can someone try to locate a file called topspeed2mods.zip? Or something like that. I only ask because I don't want to lose my own creations. Signed: Dakotah Rickard On 11/6/09, Richard Sherman squir...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, Here are two files you can grab to replenish your cars and tracks inventory. http://squirman.jzeller.org/59_Tracks.zip http://squirman.jzeller.org/66_Cars.zip HTH. rich - Original Message - From: Dakotah Rickard Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 10:50 AM Right now it seems that the top speed 2 utilities pack download feature is unavailable. A while back, I posted a missive to this list requesting information concerning my huge zip file of cars and tracks. I lost a lot of junk on my old computer when it crashed and would like to be able to play my own cars, as well as those from the other people I came into contact with, on similarly created tracks. If anyone has info about that file or where to obtain something similar, I'd appreciate it. Signed: Dakotah Rickard --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] Giftanum found or not?
Hi Thomas, Out of curiosity, have you managed to find the Giftanum installer? Hayden --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
Hi Dark, Yeah, like I said I didn't know if her view was shared by her countrymen or not, but merely wanted to point out that there are mixed views about accessibility, blindness, and how different people react to a person with a disability. Someone from a different country or culture may hold a different view than someone where you live. As you yourself pointed out in the UK they have different views about accessibility concerning books etc than we do here in the USA. These differing points of view are none the less barriers to world wide accessibility to content like games, books, whatever the case might be. dark wrote: Funny Tom, my university has an exchange going with the university ot tokio, and I've never had any problems with the Japanese I've met, indeed I got to become quite good friends with one girl at my light opera society. Also, my mum, who is a physio for disabled children did a demonstration once of some equipment she was pioneering to some Japanese businessmen, who were great both about the physical disability issue, and about my mum and I both being visually impared (they actually invited me to go and look them up if I ever traveled to Japan). I'm guessing that like every country though, there are mixed views. You might actually be surprised to learn, that the general view of Vi people in the Uk is actually pretty shoddy, both in governmental and business terms, and among the general public. For a long while it was the accepted belief that blind people should go to specific institutions and stay there out of sight, and indeed members of the public can be quite resentful of Vi people for not staying inside some sort of institution. This has resulted in a lot of Uk blind people going to special schools, and growing up quite isolated from everyone who isn't in the blind cleaque, and disability services who say things like well disabled people aren't the best judges of what they can or cannot do I am for instance the only officially registered blind student in Durham uni currently, and I usually get on with sorting matters myself if they need sorting. This is also why I'm attempting to create a new and useable deffinition of disability in my phd, which I can then apply to solve various dilemmas, such as how a thing should or should not be judged as accessible. Before this turns into a long Ot wrant about my research though, I'll stop. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] gamebooks on audiogames.net was: RP G Character sheetmanagement software
hi dark. i agree about adding these text gamebooks. they are ust like the html ones, but in text. in my opinion, they can still be considered games. i have a question to ask about the lonewolf books. i can't understand the combat rules wen calculing the number of endurance that i'm going to lose and that the enemy is going to lose. i'll take the example that they gave in the book, and can you please try to explain it to me? Turn to the Combat Results Table . Along the top of the chart are shown the Combat Ratio numbers. Find the number that is the same as your Combat Ratio and cross-reference it With the random number that you have picked. (The random numbers appear on the side of the chart.) You now have the number of ENDURANCE points lost by Grey Star. To calculate the number lost by the enemy, multiply this by the number of WILLPOWER points that Grey Star elected to use. Now you have the final number of ENDURANCE points lost by both Grey Star and his enemy in this round of combat. Example The Combat Ratio between Grey Star and the Deathgaunt has been established as -5, and Grey Star's WILLPOWER points used as 2. If the number taken from the Random Number Table is a 6, then the result of the first round of combat is: . Grey Star loses 4 ENDURANCE points. Deathgaunt loses 5 ENDURANCE points, multiplied by 2 WILLPOWER points, giving a total of 10 ENDURANCE points lost in all. this is the only part that i can't understand... what's the logic? why i lose 4 points, and the enemy lose 5, since the random number was 6, and the combat ratio -5? thanks man. -Mensagem original- De: dark d...@xgam.org Para: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Data: Domingo, 8 de Novembro de 2009 01:36 Assunto: [Audyssey] gamebooks on audiogames.net was: RPG Character sheetmanagement software Hi. this actually brings up a question, which I should probably ask the list. thus far, on the audiogames.net database, I've only included gamebook sites which actually provide html links betwene the pages, I've got another couple to add once the database is editable again (currently it's not been fixed from the audiogames.net crash). There are however, various sights I know which host pdf or text versions of full length books which i have not added to the database because strictly speaking they are not computer games as they don't really have any processing going on beyond opening the file. These are slightly less convenient, sinse obviously you have to find the text yourself as well as keeping stats etc, but if there's going to be a useable Ap to make this process easier, maybe I should reconsidder adding entries for these sights so that they can be easily found? What do people think? Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
Hi Dark, Well, that sort of thing happens often enough here too, but ever since the Civil Rights movement of the 1960's the USA in general is more consciously aware of a persons individual civil rights weather they be of another race, gender, or if they have a disability. Plus sad to say we have had a lot of politically correct laws passed that makes people afraid of being sued if they mistreat someone of another gender, race, or if they have some sort of disability. We could use that to our advantage if we want to, some do, but it also increases tentions between sighted people and those with a disability. A case in point. I once ordered a cup of cofee from McDonald's. Now, everyone knows about the case about the woman who sued McDonald's after she placed a hot cup of cofee between her legs, and burned herself down there. Well, sometime later I come along buy a cup of cofee, and the woman who took my order was insistant that I don't carry it to my table myself, and did it herself, waited until it cooled before handing it to me. I could have felt insulted, and to this day I'm not sure if the woman was genuinely concerned for my safety or was just concerned I'd burn myself and sue her and MicDonald's if I did. Perhaps it was a bit of both. Either way being that I was totally blind I obviously got special treatment when I really didn't need any, and weather it was out of genuine concern or fear I might sue someone I had to put up with this indignaty of having someone else hold my coffee until it cooled. Ah, but I'm getting way off topic myself. Anyway, the average persons view of disability has gone up some over the passed few years. There have been laws like Public Law 9-22 that makes it possible for the National Library Service for the Blind, Bookshare, and RFBD to operate which is where we get a majority of our accessible materials come from. There is Section 508 which to its credit has forced companies like Apple to take accessibility much more seriously, and to their credit Apple has adopted a high degree of accessibility standards regarding their software over the passed couple of years. One by one we are making progress, but there are areas such as games where the law doesn't quite reach far enough. Hopefully this suit will bring some positive attention to this subject and bring developers to the table to improve the accessibility standards of their games up some. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] gamebooks on audiogames.net was: RPG Character sheetmanagement software
Maybe you could try categorising some of these games or something? As in, create categories for certain types of games that offer certain features or not? Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 3:36 AM Subject: [Audyssey] gamebooks on audiogames.net was: RPG Character sheetmanagement software Hi. this actually brings up a question, which I should probably ask the list. thus far, on the audiogames.net database, I've only included gamebook sites which actually provide html links betwene the pages, I've got another couple to add once the database is editable again (currently it's not been fixed from the audiogames.net crash). There are however, various sights I know which host pdf or text versions of full length books which i have not added to the database because strictly speaking they are not computer games as they don't really have any processing going on beyond opening the file. These are slightly less convenient, sinse obviously you have to find the text yourself as well as keeping stats etc, but if there's going to be a useable Ap to make this process easier, maybe I should reconsidder adding entries for these sights so that they can be easily found? What do people think? Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4582 (20091107) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4582 (20091107) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] RPG Character sheet management software
in the old days either, but it works fine for me along with both jaws and NVDA, but suppose might not look too good for a sightie...LOL! (did try use things like window width percentages to try do what I think should look alright, but in the old days when could see mostly worked on webpages anyway) It also sort of implements a tiny bit of re-use of your screenreader/MS TTS voices to say things sometimes, but, the primary one you might notice is that when it's loaded it'll initially tell you the name of the character spoken even if you run a screen reader or not. Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4582 (20091107) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4582 (20091107) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4582 (20091107) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4582 (20091107) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4582 (20091107) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
Hello, I spent a couple weeks in Japan during the World Science Fiction Convention in 2007. After the convention finished, I spent a week visiting universities near Tokyo to learn what their disability services are like. Most universities have their barrier free services. These departments work with the university to reduce physical barriers for access, and work to create accessible electronic textbooks for their few blind students. In Japanese, OCR software gets around 60% to 70% accuracy in conversion. None of the publishers out there will provide electronic files for students. Note: no services are provided for any mental disabilities. One place I visited was the National Rehabilitation Center for the Blind. They train both people who are newly blind and those adults who have been blind from birth. One thing the director of Independent Living Skills Training program told me is that many of the congenitally blind people (blind from birth) do not know anything about how to take care of themselves when they come to the program. Apparently, their mothers do all of their grooming, including combing their hair for them, until they are young adults. A Japanese friend of mine says this is because the mothers feel guilty. In Japan, once the government passes a law about access, companies have two years to start complying with the law. After that, they can and are found liable if they are not complying. For instance, one law out there is that companies larger than a certain size must have a workforce which consists of 1.5% of their employees to have disabilities. If the company does not comply, it faces continuing steep fines until it complys. Also, any accessible change in the environment which becomes law means that construction companies will not be payed until they have made the construction project fully compliant, and any errors are the company's responsibility to fix without receiving aditional pay. One of the university professors I interviewed told me that they figure they are 20 to 30 years behind the US, and they are working diligently to correct these deficiencies. There are jobs in Japan which blind people are very strongly encouraged to seek. However, different training institutions send a few employees to the US every five to ten years or so to learn about more things which blind people do for employment there. They then return and develop similar programs in Japan. After all that, remember that Japan is a fairly insular culture. Outside Tokyo, Osaka, and some of the other very large cities, they tend to be very closed off from any foreigners. They tend to structure things to be less open for non-Japanese in the hope that the foreigners will decide to leave. I have heard that the part of the Japanese population which is open to foreigners being around is about 20%. David Chittenden, MS, CRC, MRCAA Bryan Peterson wrote: Oh we sometimes get that here in the US as well Dark. I, too, have met a very large number of seemingly more inlightened Japanese individuals (usually teachers), who not only seemed open to the idea of blind students making the same way in the world as sighted folks but also seemed fascinated by our methods for getting along. I remember one time working with a Perkins brailler (although I happen to hate those things with a passion), and one of them came over and started trying to read it. Couldn't understand a word he was saying but it was still pretty neat. Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] gamebooks on audiogames.net was: RPG Charactersheetmanagement software
we already have a gamebook catagory separate from rpgs or interactive fiction, creating more sub catagories would be overkill I think. I can however specify text or pdf in the platform section of each entry, which should give people the correct info. Beware the grue! dark. - Original Message - From: Jacob Kruger jac...@mailzone.co.za To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 3:07 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] gamebooks on audiogames.net was: RPG Charactersheetmanagement software Maybe you could try categorising some of these games or something? As in, create categories for certain types of games that offer certain features or not? Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 3:36 AM Subject: [Audyssey] gamebooks on audiogames.net was: RPG Character sheetmanagement software Hi. this actually brings up a question, which I should probably ask the list. thus far, on the audiogames.net database, I've only included gamebook sites which actually provide html links betwene the pages, I've got another couple to add once the database is editable again (currently it's not been fixed from the audiogames.net crash). There are however, various sights I know which host pdf or text versions of full length books which i have not added to the database because strictly speaking they are not computer games as they don't really have any processing going on beyond opening the file. These are slightly less convenient, sinse obviously you have to find the text yourself as well as keeping stats etc, but if there's going to be a useable Ap to make this process easier, maybe I should reconsidder adding entries for these sights so that they can be easily found? What do people think? Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4582 (20091107) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4582 (20091107) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online.
Wow! maybe we should all write to the Japanese government and get them to slap figns on game developement companies? while the institutional and home care business sounds pretty nasty, I'm well impressed about what you say regarding the legal requirements on business. With the Uk having a %85 unemployment rate among blind peopl (with many of the final 15 percent being directly employed by organizations for the blind), I think Japan could teach the Uk a thing or two about this. beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Moderator Serious Warning Requesting Rogue AngelSeries
Far too harsh. --- In God we trust! - Original Message - From: Darren Harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 7:34 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Moderator Serious Warning Requesting Rogue AngelSeries Sorry thomas, I don't believe you are in any position to be high and mighty about this. Here is the email. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: 06 November 2009 02:57 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] Requesting Rogue Angel Series Hi all, I am looking for the complete rogue Angel series put out by Graphic Audio. I've looked at Yohandy's Graphic Audio folders on Sendspace and he only has episodes 15 and 16. I'd appreciate it if someone could or would please upload the first 14 episodes for me. Thanks. If you're going to go on about how piracy is what bad and then go and commit the act yourself, I respectfully submit that you are no longer in a reputable state to moderate this list. Any action you take against anybody from now on with regards to piracy is nothing short of 2 faced because quite honestly you've shot yourself in the foot fair and square. Respect that you step down forth with -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: 06 November 2009 17:25 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] Moderator Serious Warning Requesting Rogue Angel Series Hi all, Please, absolutely under no circumstances pass out links where copyrighted material can be obtained illegally on this list. As this is the list guidelines I will immediately moderate or possibly ban anyone who does. However, I will say this only once. One member has already done so. As I had originally started this thread, quite by accident, I'll go easy on him this time, but as the rules are explicit about piracy on this particular list he should have known better.I will not be so kind to the next person who does so. Thanks. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.700 / Virus Database: 270.14.52/2484 - Release Date: 11/06/09 07:38:00 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.700 / Virus Database: 270.14.52/2484 - Release Date: 11/06/09 07:38:00 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Piracy was: Requesting Rogue Angel Series
Is it legal for you to record an album of music onto an audio cassette and give it to someone? Unless the laws have changed, yes. So, if it is legal for someone to get movies with descriptive narration, is it legal to send a copy, upon request, to someone where the product is not available? --- In God we trust! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 8:38 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Piracy was: Requesting Rogue Angel Series Hi Dark and all, The issue of copyrights, piracy, etc is a very slippery slope. One beyond the scope of this list. Especially, when it comes to books and movies. I will say this though. As you pointed out not all materials are available to everyone everywhere, and thus piracy exists for that very reason. Sometimes the laws of a certain country, businesses, etc are unwilling to provide equal access to materials and content. For example, take described movies. Here in the U.S. obtaining described movies and television shows is very difficult, and very few and far between. However, in the U.K. there are networks like Sky that play all sorts of described movies and shows. That is a distinct advantage you guys in the U.K. have that we don't have. So if I ask someone in the U.K. to record a certain movie or TV program described I am technically in violation of piracy. However, the very company that produced that movie did not produce it with audio description, don't provide audio description on the dvd, and I have no way to record or buy that movie here in the U.S. with audio description. Even if I can it comes at a far greater price than what it would cost a sighted person to purchase that same movie. So if I obtain it illegally with audio description I'm indeed guilty of breaking the law, but what law have the movie companies broken by not making it available to me legally? My point here is that there are some serious intellectual and moral issues on both sides of the argument. The person who stole or pirated that movie is guilty of breaking the law, but his/her reasons may be justified. In what way can we hold the movie companies accountable for providing closed captioning for the def, but the majority of them lack audio description for the blind? What is a blind person to do when he can not obtain said movie in audio description in his country of birth legally? Are blind people in the United States expected to do without audio description when our counterparts in the U.K. can legally have it? Bottom line i don't have an answer for this. However, just because a law says this or that doesn't necessarily make it fair or just. Often times laws are made regardless of special interest groups who may be effected by them, and then the laws have to be rewritten or amended to fix the screw up. Unfortunately, it can often times take years before the wrongs done by the law are officially redressed. This very same problem applies to games as well as movies. Most companies have a lot of control over their copyrights making it almost impossible to create any games based on a popular game for the sighted. Name any popular game series you like such as Star Wars, Tomb Raider, Mortal Kombat, Halo, Megaman, etc an accessible game developer has to pay a heavy price to write a game like that legally. Often times the cost is beyond his/her means, and no mainstream game company is under obligation to give a person the right to use there copyrights and trademarks legally. Therefore once again we get the shaft do to laws and large corporate self-interest. When it comes to matters of accessibility we are always last in line because no one seams interested in helping us out if it doesn't line their pockets with hard cash. In conclusion since I've come this far I might as well explain what I personally think and feel on this matter of piracy. I consider myself generally a good citizen of the country were I live, and by and large don't believe in steeling. Never-the-less I do believe that various laws are unjust as the apply to the blind citizens of this country. On one hand we are told if we copy a book, movie, or game idea we are steeling or committing piracy. That is fair enough, but on the other hand there is no law saying that book, movie, or game idea has to be fully accessible to the blind and cost the same as the mainstream version. So if there is an accessible version in another country and not available in my country, is available but costs double the normal price a sighted person would pay, whatever the law says I have to shut up and like it. That's what I disagree with, and under those circumstances I do feel justified in obtaining a book, movie, whatever any way I can get it. If and when it becomes available legally I'd certainly do so, but if I can't then shame on me for pirating it and shame on the company for not making it accessible and legally available in the first place. Cheers.
Re: [Audyssey] Moderator Serious Warning Requesting Rogue AngelSeries
Indeed. Ponder the following Senerio: A previously convicted murderer discuveries another murderer on the street. Upon turning in the murderer, he is told by the judge, You can't convict this guy; you're a murderer yourself! Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Charles Rivard Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 2:27 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Moderator Serious Warning Requesting Rogue AngelSeries Far too harsh. --- In God we trust! - Original Message - From: Darren Harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 7:34 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Moderator Serious Warning Requesting Rogue AngelSeries Sorry thomas, I don't believe you are in any position to be high and mighty about this. Here is the email. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: 06 November 2009 02:57 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] Requesting Rogue Angel Series Hi all, I am looking for the complete rogue Angel series put out by Graphic Audio. I've looked at Yohandy's Graphic Audio folders on Sendspace and he only has episodes 15 and 16. I'd appreciate it if someone could or would please upload the first 14 episodes for me. Thanks. If you're going to go on about how piracy is what bad and then go and commit the act yourself, I respectfully submit that you are no longer in a reputable state to moderate this list. Any action you take against anybody from now on with regards to piracy is nothing short of 2 faced because quite honestly you've shot yourself in the foot fair and square. Respect that you step down forth with -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: 06 November 2009 17:25 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] Moderator Serious Warning Requesting Rogue Angel Series Hi all, Please, absolutely under no circumstances pass out links where copyrighted material can be obtained illegally on this list. As this is the list guidelines I will immediately moderate or possibly ban anyone who does. However, I will say this only once. One member has already done so. As I had originally started this thread, quite by accident, I'll go easy on him this time, but as the rules are explicit about piracy on this particular list he should have known better.I will not be so kind to the next person who does so. Thanks. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.700 / Virus Database: 270.14.52/2484 - Release Date: 11/06/09 07:38:00 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.700 / Virus Database: 270.14.52/2484 - Release Date: 11/06/09 07:38:00 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] gamebooks on audiogames.net was: RPGCharactersheetmanagement software
Makes sense. To be honest, I generally just jump straight into the drop down box on audiogames.net, and use things like first letter navigation to try find things there. I'm one of those stupid people who has around 30 interesting games installed on his machine, but never really gets around to actually trying to play more than a few small/simple ones to just pass a bit of time while waiting for something else to happen. LOL! Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 6:02 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] gamebooks on audiogames.net was: RPGCharactersheetmanagement software we already have a gamebook catagory separate from rpgs or interactive fiction, creating more sub catagories would be overkill I think. I can however specify text or pdf in the platform section of each entry, which should give people the correct info. Beware the grue! dark. - Original Message - From: Jacob Kruger jac...@mailzone.co.za To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 3:07 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] gamebooks on audiogames.net was: RPG Charactersheetmanagement software Maybe you could try categorising some of these games or something? As in, create categories for certain types of games that offer certain features or not? Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 3:36 AM Subject: [Audyssey] gamebooks on audiogames.net was: RPG Character sheetmanagement software Hi. this actually brings up a question, which I should probably ask the list. thus far, on the audiogames.net database, I've only included gamebook sites which actually provide html links betwene the pages, I've got another couple to add once the database is editable again (currently it's not been fixed from the audiogames.net crash). There are however, various sights I know which host pdf or text versions of full length books which i have not added to the database because strictly speaking they are not computer games as they don't really have any processing going on beyond opening the file. These are slightly less convenient, sinse obviously you have to find the text yourself as well as keeping stats etc, but if there's going to be a useable Ap to make this process easier, maybe I should reconsidder adding entries for these sights so that they can be easily found? What do people think? Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4582 (20091107) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4582 (20091107) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4582 (20091107) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4583 (20091108) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus
Re: [Audyssey] gamebooks on audiogames.net was: RPGCharactersheetmanagement software
So do I-I find that a bit easier then searching through a massive table. Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Jacob Kruger Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 10:49 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] gamebooks on audiogames.net was: RPGCharactersheetmanagement software Makes sense. To be honest, I generally just jump straight into the drop down box on audiogames.net, and use things like first letter navigation to try find things there. I'm one of those stupid people who has around 30 interesting games installed on his machine, but never really gets around to actually trying to play more than a few small/simple ones to just pass a bit of time while waiting for something else to happen. LOL! Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 6:02 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] gamebooks on audiogames.net was: RPGCharactersheetmanagement software we already have a gamebook catagory separate from rpgs or interactive fiction, creating more sub catagories would be overkill I think. I can however specify text or pdf in the platform section of each entry, which should give people the correct info. Beware the grue! dark. - Original Message - From: Jacob Kruger jac...@mailzone.co.za To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 3:07 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] gamebooks on audiogames.net was: RPG Charactersheetmanagement software Maybe you could try categorising some of these games or something? As in, create categories for certain types of games that offer certain features or not? Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 3:36 AM Subject: [Audyssey] gamebooks on audiogames.net was: RPG Character sheetmanagement software Hi. this actually brings up a question, which I should probably ask the list. thus far, on the audiogames.net database, I've only included gamebook sites which actually provide html links betwene the pages, I've got another couple to add once the database is editable again (currently it's not been fixed from the audiogames.net crash). There are however, various sights I know which host pdf or text versions of full length books which i have not added to the database because strictly speaking they are not computer games as they don't really have any processing going on beyond opening the file. These are slightly less convenient, sinse obviously you have to find the text yourself as well as keeping stats etc, but if there's going to be a useable Ap to make this process easier, maybe I should reconsidder adding entries for these sights so that they can be easily found? What do people think? Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4582 (20091107) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4582 (20091107) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding
Re: [Audyssey] Piracy was: Requesting Rogue Angel Series
That's the beauty of a game demo, too. Try it before you buy it. If you don't like it, don't buy what you already know something about. If you like it, you'll probably find that, in most cases, you barely scratched the surface by playing the demo. The demo of Mota is the first level. What's in store for gamers who buy the full game? Lone Wolf, Tank Commander, and Shades of Doom are other examples. --- In God we trust! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 8:50 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Piracy was: Requesting Rogue Angel Series Hi Liam, First, I'll repete myself. I sent it to this list completely on accident. What part of it was an accident do you not understand? Second, if you must know I wished to listen to the programs before buying them. In that sense I was not intending to pirate them as you claim. I think I do reserve the right to listen to something in full before paying $12.00 per show, and find out later I did or didn't like it. Tell me how many books did you buy before reading them first? How many movies did you buy before you watched them? How many songs did you buy before hearing them on the radio first? In other words what I am getting at is people hear a song on the radio, like it, and they go out and buy it on cd. Someone sees a really good movie on tv, and decides to go out and purchase the dvd. So if I intend to do the same thing what crime have i committed other than not paying for it before I had a chance to listen to it to find out if I like it or not? Liam Erven wrote: it does not explain why a moderator directly violated a rule. Thomas is setting an extremely poor example. you should email graphic audio and see what they think about you ripping them off like that. the books may be a tad expensive, but they work hard to produce them. so I think it's a huge slap in the face to rip them off. like it or not, it's piracy. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] My Apologies and Explanation
You did absolutely nothing wrong other than, perhaps, explaining in your post, wherever it should have gone to, the reason you wanted the downloads. Then again, hindsight is always 20/20. --- In God we trust! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 9:22 AM Subject: [Audyssey] My Apologies and Explanation Hi all, I'd like to extend both my apologies and my explanation for the Rogue Angel request that showed up late yesterday evening. I'm also very sorry that this has turned into something of a debate as it did not need to be if you properly understood what happened, and my intentions regarding these Rogue Angel programs. First, as I said the message got sent to this list quite by accident. There is a mailing list where books are shared, and the message was intended for that list. However, somehow, unknown to me, it got sent to this list instead. Thus the issue we now face. Second, I've been accused of piracy by several list members. I've been called a spade, to faced, etc. However, many of you jumped to conclusions, accused me unjustly, without completely understanding my intentions or plans. You just assumed I intended to pirate the materials outright. That's not true. Since I need to give an explanation for why I was asking for these materials I will do so at this time. You are free to except or not except my reasons below. Whenever I purchase a music cd, movie, book, you name it I'd like to have an opportunity to watch, listen to, or read it before buying it. Since I knew these Rogue Angel programs were out there I was hoping to listen to them, and if I liked them I would buy them from Graphic Audio. If I didn't care for them I would delete them as I'd have no use for them. either way my intentions was to preview the material I was thinking about buying. If that is a crime then I guess that means we can't watch TV or listen to the radio any more because Both are good sources for previewing movies and music right? I'll leave you all with these basic questions. How many of you have gone out and purchased a music cd not having heard a single song on it on the radio before? How many of you have gone out and purchased a movie on dvd without having seen it on HBO, Show Time, Stars, etc before? How many of you have gone out and purchased an audio book without having listened to it from the public library before? So with that in mind if my intent is to preview or listen to these audio dramas before purchasing them does that make me a criminal? If I watch a movie on tv before buying it does that make me a criminal? If I hear a song on the radio before buying the cd does that make me a criminal? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Piracy was: Requesting Rogue Angel Series
Charles, It is only legal to copy an audio cassette, CD, etcetera if you make only one copy, and only if that copy is created for your use. If you have a cassette you want to convert to CD to preserve it longer, that's perfectly legal. If, however, you copy a cassette or CD for someone else, you are breaking the law. Just because a thing is easy or widely done doesn't make it legal. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Charles Rivard Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 2:31 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Piracy was: Requesting Rogue Angel Series Is it legal for you to record an album of music onto an audio cassette and give it to someone? Unless the laws have changed, yes. So, if it is legal for someone to get movies with descriptive narration, is it legal to send a copy, upon request, to someone where the product is not available? --- In God we trust! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 8:38 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Piracy was: Requesting Rogue Angel Series Hi Dark and all, The issue of copyrights, piracy, etc is a very slippery slope. One beyond the scope of this list. Especially, when it comes to books and movies. I will say this though. As you pointed out not all materials are available to everyone everywhere, and thus piracy exists for that very reason. Sometimes the laws of a certain country, businesses, etc are unwilling to provide equal access to materials and content. For example, take described movies. Here in the U.S. obtaining described movies and television shows is very difficult, and very few and far between. However, in the U.K. there are networks like Sky that play all sorts of described movies and shows. That is a distinct advantage you guys in the U.K. have that we don't have. So if I ask someone in the U.K. to record a certain movie or TV program described I am technically in violation of piracy. However, the very company that produced that movie did not produce it with audio description, don't provide audio description on the dvd, and I have no way to record or buy that movie here in the U.S. with audio description. Even if I can it comes at a far greater price than what it would cost a sighted person to purchase that same movie. So if I obtain it illegally with audio description I'm indeed guilty of breaking the law, but what law have the movie companies broken by not making it available to me legally? My point here is that there are some serious intellectual and moral issues on both sides of the argument. The person who stole or pirated that movie is guilty of breaking the law, but his/her reasons may be justified. In what way can we hold the movie companies accountable for providing closed captioning for the def, but the majority of them lack audio description for the blind? What is a blind person to do when he can not obtain said movie in audio description in his country of birth legally? Are blind people in the United States expected to do without audio description when our counterparts in the U.K. can legally have it? Bottom line i don't have an answer for this. However, just because a law says this or that doesn't necessarily make it fair or just. Often times laws are made regardless of special interest groups who may be effected by them, and then the laws have to be rewritten or amended to fix the screw up. Unfortunately, it can often times take years before the wrongs done by the law are officially redressed. This very same problem applies to games as well as movies. Most companies have a lot of control over their copyrights making it almost impossible to create any games based on a popular game for the sighted. Name any popular game series you like such as Star Wars, Tomb Raider, Mortal Kombat, Halo, Megaman, etc an accessible game developer has to pay a heavy price to write a game like that legally. Often times the cost is beyond his/her means, and no mainstream game company is under obligation to give a person the right to use there copyrights and trademarks legally. Therefore once again we get the shaft do to laws and large corporate self-interest. When it comes to matters of accessibility we are always last in line because no one seams interested in helping us out if it doesn't line their pockets with hard cash. In conclusion since I've come this far I might as well explain what I personally think and feel on this matter of piracy. I consider myself generally a good citizen of the country were I live, and by and large don't believe in steeling. Never-the-less I do believe that various laws are unjust as the apply to the blind citizens of this country. On one hand we are told if we copy a book, movie, or game idea we are steeling or committing piracy. That is fair enough, but on the other hand there is no law saying that book, movie, or game idea has
Re: [Audyssey] Piracy was: Requesting Rogue Angel Series
I definitely agree; although I've never bought SOD or Tank Commander, I have bought Loanwoflf, and there is quite a lot one doesn't get in the demo. Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Charles Rivard Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 3:23 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Piracy was: Requesting Rogue Angel Series That's the beauty of a game demo, too. Try it before you buy it. If you don't like it, don't buy what you already know something about. If you like it, you'll probably find that, in most cases, you barely scratched the surface by playing the demo. The demo of Mota is the first level. What's in store for gamers who buy the full game? Lone Wolf, Tank Commander, and Shades of Doom are other examples. --- In God we trust! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 8:50 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Piracy was: Requesting Rogue Angel Series Hi Liam, First, I'll repete myself. I sent it to this list completely on accident. What part of it was an accident do you not understand? Second, if you must know I wished to listen to the programs before buying them. In that sense I was not intending to pirate them as you claim. I think I do reserve the right to listen to something in full before paying $12.00 per show, and find out later I did or didn't like it. Tell me how many books did you buy before reading them first? How many movies did you buy before you watched them? How many songs did you buy before hearing them on the radio first? In other words what I am getting at is people hear a song on the radio, like it, and they go out and buy it on cd. Someone sees a really good movie on tv, and decides to go out and purchase the dvd. So if I intend to do the same thing what crime have i committed other than not paying for it before I had a chance to listen to it to find out if I like it or not? Liam Erven wrote: it does not explain why a moderator directly violated a rule. Thomas is setting an extremely poor example. you should email graphic audio and see what they think about you ripping them off like that. the books may be a tad expensive, but they work hard to produce them. so I think it's a huge slap in the face to rip them off. like it or not, it's piracy. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Piracy was: Requesting Rogue Angel Series
The cookies cannot be repackaged once opened, nor can the contents you consumed be put back in any form that others would eat. A download, however, is a totally different animal. It can be deleted. No harm done. --- In God we trust! - Original Message - From: Ryan Strunk ryan.str...@gmail.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 9:59 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Piracy was: Requesting Rogue Angel Series To quote you: I think I do reserve the right to listen to something in full before paying $12.00 per show, and find out later I did or didn't like it. Ahh yes, because this honors system works so well. Do you also tear open packages of cookies in the store to sample them before you buy them? After all you might not like them, so you shouldn't buy them and take that risk. Perhaps Amazon could just send me a book and let me read it. Then if I like it, I can pay for it when I'm done. In fact, Tom, why don't you just release all of your programs as freeware, and then those of us who like your games can pay you for them. Hey. I'm only following your philosophy. No fun? Well that's why we have demos and samples. That's why we have the radio and TV you mentioned. In fact, if you go to the page for the first book in the series, you can click a link entitled preview and get a sample just like other paying customers. Anything else is stealing. http://www.graphicaudio.net/p-33-1-destiny.aspx Ryan -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 12:51 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Piracy was: Requesting Rogue Angel Series Hi Liam, First, I'll repete myself. I sent it to this list completely on accident. What part of it was an accident do you not understand? Second, if you must know I wished to listen to the programs before buying them. In that sense I was not intending to pirate them as you claim. I think I do reserve the right to listen to something in full before paying $12.00 per show, and find out later I did or didn't like it. Tell me how many books did you buy before reading them first? How many movies did you buy before you watched them? How many songs did you buy before hearing them on the radio first? In other words what I am getting at is people hear a song on the radio, like it, and they go out and buy it on cd. Someone sees a really good movie on tv, and decides to go out and purchase the dvd. So if I intend to do the same thing what crime have i committed other than not paying for it before I had a chance to listen to it to find out if I like it or not? Liam Erven wrote: it does not explain why a moderator directly violated a rule. Thomas is setting an extremely poor example. you should email graphic audio and see what they think about you ripping them off like that. the books may be a tad expensive, but they work hard to produce them. so I think it's a huge slap in the face to rip them off. like it or not, it's piracy. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] My Apologies and Explanation
You ask: If someone was to hack mota then decide they liked it thus they buy it does that make the act of piracy legal? No. But is Thomas hacking or modifying what he receives, making it into a full version? Obviously not. See the difference? --- In God we trust! - Original Message - From: Darren Harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 10:03 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] My Apologies and Explanation Hi Thomas, I'm sorry but the original point still stands. Whether you intend to buy a given product after illegally accessing it or not isn't the question. If someone was to hack mota then decide they liked it thus they buy it does that make the act of piracy legal? On the radio you are legally aloud to listen to the music or productions broadcast. The company to whom these said music and or productions belong to get listening time and also revenue for allowing their works to be legally broadcast. I'm sorry but your argument is flawed. Completely flawed. It doesn't matter your reasoning for pirating some graphic novel. The point is you've done it whilst upholding the list guidelines which expressly forbids piracy on this list of any kind. Whether it be the discussion of there of or actual links to sites where piracy is actively encouraged. If you were a normal list member then I personally wouldn't care I would just think of this as hypocritical actions if you decided to openly criticise people who knowingly pirate software and the like yet you do it yourself. But you aren't. not only are you a list moderator, you are also the owner of your own company who has yourself been warned by another company with regards to piracy of their game. I'm sorry Thomas, do the honourable thing and save face. You can't justify this. I'm sorry but you can't. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] My Apologies and Explanation
I hope they see your intent, and you remain a moderator. It's the fair thing to do. Those who don't see your point of view just aren't looking past their own. I'm totally against piracy, and what you asked for was not in any way an attempt at piracy, which anyone can see after reading your posts on the matter. --- In God we trust! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] My Apologies and Explanation Hi Darren, And what exactly do you consider saving face in this case? I've already done the damage, according to you and others my reputation as a moderator is shot, and I'm a hypocrite, etc. I've explained my intent, my point of view, and many of you don't agree with it. For that reason we will simply have to agree to disagree. It will do neither you or I any good to argue the point on list any further. You've made your opinion known and so have I. Is it possible to offer a truce, and move on? This I will say. I will shortly be e-mailing Kevin and Raul asking them for their decision regarding my moderator status. If they say I should resign I will do so willingly. If they want to suspend me from the list for x days or months I'll have to live with that decision. If they decide this is an unfortunate accident and do nothing so be it. I'll put myself at their decision and mercy considering this matter. Darren Harris wrote: Hi Thomas, I'm sorry but the original point still stands. Whether you intend to buy a given product after illegally accessing it or not isn't the question. If someone was to hack mota then decide they liked it thus they buy it does that make the act of piracy legal? On the radio you are legally aloud to listen to the music or productions broadcast. The company to whom these said music and or productions belong to get listening time and also revenue for allowing their works to be legally broadcast. I'm sorry but your argument is flawed. Completely flawed. It doesn't matter your reasoning for pirating some graphic novel. The point is you've done it whilst upholding the list guidelines which expressly forbids piracy on this list of any kind. Whether it be the discussion of there of or actual links to sites where piracy is actively encouraged. If you were a normal list member then I personally wouldn't care I would just think of this as hypocritical actions if you decided to openly criticise people who knowingly pirate software and the like yet you do it yourself. But you aren't. not only are you a list moderator, you are also the owner of your own company who has yourself been warned by another company with regards to piracy of their game. I'm sorry Thomas, do the honourable thing and save face. You can't justify this. I'm sorry but you can't. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.700 / Virus Database: 270.14.52/2484 - Release Date: 11/06/09 07:38:00 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Piracy was: Requesting Rogue Angel Series
But the contents of the book are already in your head. The cookies can't be repackaged, and the material can't be unheard either. The people who designed those books worked hard to make sure they produced a good product, and they made sure demos were available so that people could make an informed choice. Expecting the whole book for nothing is just asking for a hand-out. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Charles Rivard Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 3:31 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Piracy was: Requesting Rogue Angel Series The cookies cannot be repackaged once opened, nor can the contents you consumed be put back in any form that others would eat. A download, however, is a totally different animal. It can be deleted. No harm done. --- In God we trust! - Original Message - From: Ryan Strunk ryan.str...@gmail.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 9:59 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Piracy was: Requesting Rogue Angel Series To quote you: I think I do reserve the right to listen to something in full before paying $12.00 per show, and find out later I did or didn't like it. Ahh yes, because this honors system works so well. Do you also tear open packages of cookies in the store to sample them before you buy them? After all you might not like them, so you shouldn't buy them and take that risk. Perhaps Amazon could just send me a book and let me read it. Then if I like it, I can pay for it when I'm done. In fact, Tom, why don't you just release all of your programs as freeware, and then those of us who like your games can pay you for them. Hey. I'm only following your philosophy. No fun? Well that's why we have demos and samples. That's why we have the radio and TV you mentioned. In fact, if you go to the page for the first book in the series, you can click a link entitled preview and get a sample just like other paying customers. Anything else is stealing. http://www.graphicaudio.net/p-33-1-destiny.aspx Ryan -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 12:51 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Piracy was: Requesting Rogue Angel Series Hi Liam, First, I'll repete myself. I sent it to this list completely on accident. What part of it was an accident do you not understand? Second, if you must know I wished to listen to the programs before buying them. In that sense I was not intending to pirate them as you claim. I think I do reserve the right to listen to something in full before paying $12.00 per show, and find out later I did or didn't like it. Tell me how many books did you buy before reading them first? How many movies did you buy before you watched them? How many songs did you buy before hearing them on the radio first? In other words what I am getting at is people hear a song on the radio, like it, and they go out and buy it on cd. Someone sees a really good movie on tv, and decides to go out and purchase the dvd. So if I intend to do the same thing what crime have i committed other than not paying for it before I had a chance to listen to it to find out if I like it or not? Liam Erven wrote: it does not explain why a moderator directly violated a rule. Thomas is setting an extremely poor example. you should email graphic audio and see what they think about you ripping them off like that. the books may be a tad expensive, but they work hard to produce them. so I think it's a huge slap in the face to rip them off. like it or not, it's piracy. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
Re: [Audyssey] free games was Piracy
What counts is the game developer's reasons for developing their games. Jim Kitchen does it strictly as a hobby. Others don't. --- In God we trust! - Original Message - From: Willem dwill...@gmail.com To: Munawar Bijani munaw...@gmail.com; Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 11:08 AM Subject: [Audyssey] free games was Piracy Hi all. Now the issue of piracy has reared it's head, I have a question for everybody. Is it really worth all the effort to sell an accessible game? I know you make money, but is it really enough to live off? As things appear from my side, a potential developer, making audio games is almost a charity job anyway. The market is so small and many people can't afford the games or just crack them plain and simple, which makes the buyers even less. Either way, you have to do it because you love what you do and not to make money. In fact most developers have other jobs as I understand it. In fact some programmers build useful utilities just to have a website worth visiting so they can put up adds and a donate button, which works better in some, if not most cases. Lastly, I know there goes more into a game than programming. You spend thousands on sound libraries, licensing systems and the like, but wouldn't a free, community-driven project be more worthwhile? I have also heard the arguments against community projects, namely that everybody has their own coding style and ideas and that there isn't enough people who would contribute without wanting something back, but at this stage it's all one man shows, except GMA who sub licensed the GMA engine. I know there are exceptions, like Thomas Ward and Raceway/mota, but to my mind trying to live off making games is like squeezing water out of a piece of wood, all be it a wet piece of wood. Like you can see I don't have much experience in this area, but I would like to hear what you all think. I especially want to hear from the people that have been doing it for years. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] free games was Piracy
Now I'm curious. What game made, maybe, 8 to 10 thousand bucks? I wonder if I have it? Thanks. --- In God we trust! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 12:13 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] free games was Piracy Hi Willem, Well, I haven't been in the business as long as GMA, Jim Kitchen, or BSC, but it doesn't take long to get a feel for what the market is really like. I can probably answer your questions as well as the next person. Is it really worth all the effort to sell an accessible game? I would say no, and there are plenty of reasons why I say this. First, of course is copyright issues. Companies tend to turn a blind eye towards the free and open source projects like FreeCiv, KDE Packman, and Open Quake, because although they are based on the commercial products they are free and open source. It usually isn't worth a company's time and money trying to sue the developer or open source community for creating a free clone of their software. However, the minute that same developer tries to market the product, sell it commercially, he owes royalties to the company that holds the copyrights. If he makes enough at it and doesn't pay the royalties he can be taken to court in order to redress the money the company believes they are owed for the use of their copyrights and trademarks. Obviously, this is not something an accessible game developer ever hopes to face. Second, back when I was creating STFC I truly enjoyed writing games. Partly because it was for the most part freeware, and there was little pressure to get it done by a certain date. As soon as I took over the games from James North I was suddenly expected to get the games done as soon as possible, and there has been nothing but pressure to get the games done. That has largely effected my desire to do the games. Third, when you take money for the games you have to report the income to the government, file taxes, and you end up with almost nothing for your troubles in return. Considering there isn't much to be gained from game sales it usually just ends up covering the sounds and music costs, things like that, and the developer ends up with no real extra money to spend. Can you make a living writing accessible games? No, you really can't. You can make some to pay off a few bills, perhaps buy a new computer, or something like that but it isn't a job that pays you a stable income to live off of. The most I've heard an accessible game made was something like $10,000.00 USD, and after taxes go out you maybe end up with $7,000 to $8,000. That's assuming the game really did well. Usually, from what I've heard, a game usually makes $2,000 to $3,000 grose, and after taxes you are not making much off the game at all. So say about $2,500is average for a game as best I can guess. HTH Willem wrote: Hi all. Now the issue of piracy has reared it's head, I have a question for everybody. Is it really worth all the effort to sell an accessible game? I know you make money, but is it really enough to live off? As things appear from my side, a potential developer, making audio games is almost a charity job anyway. The market is so small and many people can't afford the games or just crack them plain and simple, which makes the buyers even less. Either way, you have to do it because you love what you do and not to make money. In fact most developers have other jobs as I understand it. In fact some programmers build useful utilities just to have a website worth visiting so they can put up adds and a donate button, which works better in some, if not most cases. Lastly, I know there goes more into a game than programming. You spend thousands on sound libraries, licensing systems and the like, but wouldn't a free, community-driven project be more worthwhile? I have also heard the arguments against community projects, namely that everybody has their own coding style and ideas and that there isn't enough people who would contribute without wanting something back, but at this stage it's all one man shows, except GMA who sub licensed the GMA engine. I know there are exceptions, like Thomas Ward and Raceway/mota, but to my mind trying to live off making games is like squeezing water out of a piece of wood, all be it a wet piece of wood. Like you can see I don't have much experience in this area, but I would like to hear what you all think. I especially want to hear from the people that have been doing it for years. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the
