http://www.psybertron.org/?p=3392
http://www.psybertron.org/?p=1567
QUOTE
The whole book is a million ways different ways of expressing A:B :: X:Y .
“Get a life” you might think. Chapter 8 is worth the slog.
UNQUOTE
Ian
On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 12:08 PM, Ian Glendinning
ian.glendinn...@gmail.com
left Bozeman before his paper
was delivered to the RMMLA Modern Languages association. And he'd
already been politically active enough at the school, beyond his
radical teaching experiment, for this to be recorded.
Regards
Ian
On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 5:30 PM, david buchanan dmbucha...@hotmail.com
Matt said to Tuukka
You're inundating me with material,
I say this in order to set the context for my
inability to respond adequately.
Oh the irony, from the person whose mails are often so long I can
never do them justice :-)
Ian
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work inbox and actions to get
on top of. ;-)
Regards
Ian
On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 2:02 PM, Tuukka Virtaperko
m...@tuukkavirtaperko.net wrote:
Matt,
here's a graphical representation of how recursive patterns looks, when the
existence pattern emerges from the intellect (like you suggested
Found a reference here back in 2003, but can't find the draft picture
at the moment.
http://www.psybertron.org/?p=457
On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 9:55 AM, Ian Glendinning
ian.glendinn...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Tuukka,
I know you said this is not right yet, but I like where you're going
with recursive
Interesting piece spotted by David Morey in Philosophy Now.
http://www.psybertron.org/?p=4020
Regards
Ian
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- hence no
need for any mind-material type of duality.
Your picture is pretty much where I've been, so I'll need to
understand Matt's comment.
Ian
On Fri, Dec 23, 2011 at 2:20 AM, m...@tuukkavirtaperko.net wrote:
Marsha, all,
I made this into a separate topic because it's gonna branch
Of course I remember now ... I blogged after hearing an interview with
him last month, and it set of a whole riff of other thoughts.
http://www.psybertron.org/?p=3933
http://www.psybertron.org/?p=3931
Ian
On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 9:22 AM, Ian Glendinning
ian.glendinn...@gmail.com wrote:
Not read
The Wrong Boson
http://www.psybertron.org/?p=4009
Ian
On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 5:40 PM, MarshaV val...@att.net wrote:
The most coveted prize in particle physics - the Higgs boson - may have been
glimpsed, say researchers reporting at the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) in
Geneva
http
question I could address ?
Ian
On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 12:06 AM, 118 ununocti...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi David,
I would just like to address the paragraphs of yours which I have kept below:
On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 12:27 PM, David Thomas
combinedeffo...@earthlink.net wrote:
How can one subscribe
I have offline copies of both the original transcript and the Baggini
article based on it.
Online copies die all too often. You'll probably also find copies on the
Wayback Machine archive.
I'll put my copies online for now.
Ian
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 1:03 PM, Steven Peterson
peterson.st
And Steve, at the risk of stating the obvious ...
The reason for (say) my own biographical timeline work was precisely
because the personal rhetorical story behind the philosophical output IS
important. Where was the man (or woman) coming from ?
About fitting narratives together.
Ian
On Fri
Uploaded
http://www.psybertron.org/?p=1194
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 1:28 PM, Ian Glendinning
ian.glendinn...@gmail.comwrote:
I have offline copies of both the original transcript and the Baggini
article based on it.
Online copies die all too often. You'll probably also find copies
, not limited to objective
forms of rationality. Been a fan of Maslow for many years, since before I
read Pirsig, but revisited Maslow quite recently.
http://www.psybertron.org/?p=3907
Ian
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 2:54 PM, Jan-Anders Andersson janander...@telia.com
wrote:
Hi Steve
I think RMP's
). A project for
someone.
Nice to stand for a moment at the fount of the quality phenomenon. Agreed.
(Incidentally, the college is currently quite active on some arrangements
to acknowledge Pirsig's work, with Gennie's daughter too. Did you see the
plaque ?)
Ian
On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 6:39 PM, John Carl
with the disaffected revolutionaries is they can show their
frustration, but someone still has to work out what the fix looks like.
Winding the clock back and starting again is unlikely to be the best option
(for those doing the protesting, or anyone else).
Ian
On Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Horse ho
The good thing about that exchange dmb Steve, is that it's on topic.
Causation.
Ian
On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 5:43 PM, david buchanan dmbucha...@hotmail.comwrote:
Steve said:
I watched all those videos this morning. ...Bob Doyle sure seems to think
he's got this problem licked. He seems more
scientific objectivity against theists (as
you do too dmb), he is all too aware of the arbitrary basis in metaphysics.
(Remember I read Dennett after Pirsig.)
Ian
On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 6:47 PM, david buchanan dmbucha...@hotmail.comwrote:
Ian said:
The good thing about that exchange dmb Steve
to it
as pure potential - in the blank-slate / tabula-rasa sense (an old idea I
picked up from Pinker).
I think it's a magnificent role for DQ, the leading edge of pure experience
is pure potential, minimally constrained by static patterns in any level.
Ian
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style ;-)
If your point is simply to teach dmb a lesson - then you need to find a
bar and buy him a pint.
Email ain't gonna cut it.
Ian
On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 4:56 PM, Steven Peterson
peterson.st...@gmail.comwrote:
Hi Ian,
Ian:
Like I said :
Yes Steve, but when people say Compatibilism
Spot on JA
Ian
On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 2:34 PM, Jan-Anders Andersson janander...@telia.com
wrote:
Hi Dave, Steve, Ian and others
I know that I've said it before, but in the 17th century Thomas Hobbes
wrote:
For such is the nature of men, that howsoever they may acknowledge many
others
Steve,
Apart from the meta-point of defending yourself against dmb, do you actually
have a point ?
(about determinism / free-will / compatibilism / terminology / MoQ, ...)
Just one please.
Ian
On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 12:48 PM, Steven Peterson
peterson.st...@gmail.comwrote:
Hi Ian,
Ian:
I
Ian says,
Like I said :
Yes Steve, but when people say Compatibilism is the position that free
will and determinism are compatible rather than mutually exclusive
positions. They are not (cannot be) using the SEP definition of determinism
you cite. They are using a less greedy definition - a la
Tell me something I don't know Marsha ;-)
On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 9:59 AM, MarshaV val...@att.net wrote:
Ian,
“There isn't any 'man' independent of the patterns. Man is the patterns.
This fictitious 'man' has many synonyms; 'mankind,' 'people,' 'the public,'
and even such pronouns
his own beloved SEP contradicts his usage of the term compatiblism.
I say,
Stop being a dick and stick to the point.
I actually believe there is something you're trying to say - I just don't
understand what it is yet.
Ian
On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 1:45 PM, Steven Peterson
peterson.st
Steve, inserted ... maybe some progress
On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Steven Peterson
peterson.st...@gmail.comwrote:
Hi Ian,
Ian:
Saying our free-will is part random is not the same as saying it's by
its
very nature unpredictable is it !
Steve:
Perhaps. Would you agree if I had
Not me, Ron.
Ian
On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 2:58 PM, X Acto xa...@rocketmail.com wrote:
Ian said (i think):
The assumption in your comment seems to go beyond just using conventional
(pronouns) language. Really, which pattern gets it right or wrong?
So again:
While I am thinking about
Hi Steve, you said to dmb
Well, dude, you must enjoy it to some extent since you don't go after Ian,
Horse, Arlo, and Dan when they make claims that are equivalent to many of
the things you have doggedly gone after me for.
I think it's a two-way street, you seem to enjoy it too, when I do
be equally depressing if chance determined
everything, despite my will.
ie I'm not particularly agreeing with you and disagreeing with dmb, I simply
can't see the point of your (your as in you) disagreement.
Ian
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of choice on the free-will side in human affairs.
Of course Pirsig give's us a moral metaphor for all events right down to the
fundamental physical processes, but that doesn't stop us distinguishing
between these two kinds of morality.
I'm left with What's your point? Steve.
Ian
On Tue, Sep 20, 2011
Did you mean that Horse ?
Faith never references anything other than the intellectual level ?
ie references only the intellectual level.
(You meant references anything but ... I'm guessing.)
Ian
On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 3:56 PM, Horse ho...@darkstar.uk.net wrote:
Hi Folks
Just had an idea
and
it's true enough but even that doesn't quite capture the true scope of the
thing, I think.
You couldn't resits the dig with fudgewriter I see, ;-)
but ultimately what you both say is true enough
... a Western / US approach to Zen Buddhism.
(IMHO natch)
Ian
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conventional after you've discovered
it's not the actual scientific knowledge - with hindsight.
Pragmatically all truth knowledge or wisdom is conventional - it's
just that the convention you choose varies.
A redundant concept, pragmatically. No big deal.
Ian
On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 7:38 PM, Arlo
expressed in unnecessarily perverse philosopherese.
Either that or ...
Ian
On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 8:52 PM, Steven Peterson
peterson.st...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi dmb,
It seems like you may lost sight of what this discussion is about. It
is not really about the proper usage of the word choice even
it in and use it. Needs following-up the
actual paper(s).
Ian
On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 2:18 PM, MarshaV val...@att.net wrote:
Of course! Being a negative empiricist and a radical skeptic, I most
definitely agree.
On Sep 6, 2011, at 9:13 AM, Steven Peterson wrote:
What was so neat to hear
between - avoiding those known static patterns ahead of time, as you
put it. Suspension of belief / disbelief. BTW - since read Iain
McGilchrist I can't help but see left vs right brain behaviour in all
of this. Suppressing the left-brain to give the right-brain a chance.)
Ian
On Sun, Sep 4, 2011
).
Regards
Ian
On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 1:45 AM, Matt Kundert
pirsigafflict...@hotmail.com wrote:
Ian said:
Hi Matt, not sure why you needed to give us that lecture on
interpreting words and their intent in context - ie that doesn't seem
contentious ? It didn't seem particularly related to Steve's
attitude clearly.
(Straw-man - because it really just side-steps a debate of what is
intellectual merit - no-one would claim to be unreasonable, not even
the overtly religious types. It's an open debate as to who's style of
debate is the more mature and constructive - Matt's point - and mine.)
Ian
Marsha,
That's true of all of us and all we say and we all know it.
It takes a conscious rhetorical choice to choose to say it in words in
a communication.
Ian
On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 12:57 PM, MarshaV val...@att.net wrote:
Ian,
On Sep 1, 2011, at 7:33 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote:
You can
and my will. Plenty of other philosophers who
see freedom in relation to will also come round to the more illusory
perceptions of will.
Regards
Ian
On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 2:06 AM, Matt Kundert
pirsigafflict...@hotmail.com wrote:
Steve said:
Pirsig has described freedom as a matter
the right more often.
Ian
On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 12:54 AM, Dan Glover daneglo...@gmail.com wrote:
Hello everyone
On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 5:26 PM, Steven Peterson
peterson.st...@gmail.com wrote:
dmb says:
I think Pirsig's comments only clarify and illuminate the very issue we've
been debating
(as illustrated by dmb), and therefore fallen out of fashion
for serious discussion, they do in fact reflect the concept we intend.
Ian
On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 9:29 AM, Ian Glendinning
ian.glendinn...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Matt, not sure why you needed to give us that lecture on
interpreting words
today's problems
with yesterdays thinking.
(I do agree with your overall point about the fashion sense angle of
the academic game - it's all part of life's rich pageant. Nothing new
under the sun, just re-packaging for it's day.)
Ian
On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 9:40 PM, Matt Kundert
pirsigafflict
as if they were problematic
mysteries.
Ian
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Thanks Marsha,
So even an analytical buddhist agrees that one must ... attribute
free-will to self.
Ian
On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 8:59 AM, MarshaV val...@att.net wrote:
3.2.2 Role: Agent of actions and thinker of thoughts (autonomy)
The sense of boundedness is also brought out through
Marsha, I don't call that rejection, but a warning as to the illusory
nature of the autonomous individual self.
Many people's texts titles associate self will with illusory. It's
real enough, (as real as anything in this world), just not quite what
it appears to be.
Ian
On Wed, Aug 17, 2011
Horse said
current inability to see where there is an effective difference in
this discussion
You and me both.
Ian
On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 12:09 PM, Horse ho...@darkstar.uk.net wrote:
Hi folks
On 17/08/2011 11:20, Ian Glendinning wrote:
Marsha, I don't call that rejection, but a warning
Steve, inserted
On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 2:08 PM, Steven Peterson
peterson.st...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Ian,
Ian:
I am at a loss to understand how you are separating free-will from
responsibility (at any level, common sense, science, MoQ or
metaphysical in general).
Steve:
This is link
a crucial part of our mental activity - one
that makes a difference to the kind of responsibility we have for
actions.
Is there a part of Eagleman (or your own argument) that explains why
this conscious intentional part should not be treated any differently
to unintended parts ?
Ian
Moq_Discuss mailing
by DQ, constrained by sq's - we are responsible for our exercise of
that will, and its consequences.
I am at a loss to understand how you are separating free-will from
responsibility (at any level, common sense, science, MoQ or
metaphysical in general).
Ian
On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 8:51 PM, david
, or responsibilities are morally linked to
our free will.
Ian
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I agree with you dmb, but I don't think (can't believe) steve is not
saying not linked at all ...
Ian
On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 3:36 PM, david buchanan dmbucha...@hotmail.com wrote:
Ian says he is not getting what [Steve's] disagreement actually is [with
dmb]:
So let's come back to your
to pull out facts and
figures, hyperlinks and quotes, you are actually making the opponent
feel as though they are even more sure of their position than before
you started the debate.
UNQUOTE
Interesting reading, the original article.
Ian
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http
Hi Arlo,
Inserted ...
On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 8:04 PM, Arlo Bensinger ajb...@psu.edu wrote:
[Ian]
So the previous social pattern isn't fossilized in all its glory in the
future biology, but it does preserve traces / shadows, which reinforce the
advantage on the next cycle, and so on.
[Arlo
-autistic somatic markers whose value /
quality we ascribe to experience.
(Not sure I noticed the issue with you and Joe.)
Regard
Ian
On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 11:58 AM, MarshaV val...@att.net wrote:
Joe,
Does this represent what you mean when you talk of emotions?
3:23 minutes
http
frustrated when we continually recycle old debates.
I still feel that's true.
Haidt is/was (almost) a total Buddhist, but just pulled back to a
position of dynamic balance in his conclusions.
Regards
Ian
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McGilchrist right-left-right
patterns, takes two hemispheres (and a body with legs) to tango.
Regards
Ian
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consistent with believing self is largely
illusory - humans can be pretty sophisticated in holding many complex
thoughts in play - if they give each other respect I find.
Gotta go. Work to do.
Ian
On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 1:24 PM, MarshaV val...@att.net wrote:
Hi Ian,
I am in the no-self (anatta
/
essential properties of the two levels.
Back soon.
(* PS) Hold a final thought - this may be an anthropic problem.
Projecting our sophisticated human perspective back onto less evolved
situation when we interpret what we see.
Ian
On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 3:51 PM, Arlo Bensinger ajb...@psu.edu wrote
of the reasons why
too greedy reductionism eventually turns the whole story to dust.
I'll look out for Tomasello.
Did I mention I was reading Ian Gilchrist ?
Not blogged a review yet, but the first half on right-left-right brain
and mental behaviour development is as comprehensive as any I've seen
- straw-men and
entangled misrepresentations - water off a duck's back - as usual.
Ian
On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 8:26 PM, david buchanan dmbucha...@hotmail.com wrote:
Ian said:
Absolutely no dmb - that phrasing just summarised Matt's post to you, so
that you could see it was exactly parallel
explain or describe it.
Still losing what it is you see as dmb or (anyone else) disagreeing with.
Ian
On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 3:32 AM, Steven Peterson
peterson.st...@gmail.com wrote:
HI dmb,
Steve said to dmb:
You have asserted that would need to drop the notions of blameworthiness
the will (which is
also our patterns and values) ?
Ian
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, etc.
Ian
On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 11:30 AM, Michael R. Brown m...@fuguewriter.com wrote:
One of my tests of a philosophical idea, issue, tradition, whatever is - and
this is ahistorical, for sure - would it occur to me on a desert island?
Would it arise anywhere but out of an historical frame
of wanting to have an argument.
Ian
On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 11:18 AM, MarshaV val...@att.net wrote:
Marsha asked:
Have you dropped the words 'free-will' and 'determinism'?
dmb answered:
No, I haven't dropped the terms.
Marsha:
Okay.
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that any underlying substantive disagreement
looks trivial to me, by comparison.
I just don't believe more tit-for-tat trading of rhetorical
accusations will solve it.
I'm hoping Matt's thread will help.
Ian
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That's how I read you Marsha ... agreed - the established conventions
can only give us more of the established problems.
What was it Einstein said ... you can solve current problem with
current thinking or words to that effect.
Ian
On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 12:25 PM, MarshaV val...@att.net
can't - that was
On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 12:36 PM, Ian Glendinning
ian.glendinn...@gmail.com wrote:
That's how I read you Marsha ... agreed - the established conventions
can only give us more of the established problems.
What was it Einstein said ... you can solve current problem with
current
imagine that in the evolutionary life of
the species or the life of the individual. There is / was always
something before the start.
Anyway - I think we're over-stretching what Michael was suggesting as
a (good, simple) pragmatic suggestion.
Ian
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,
in the light of latest knowledge.
If that's a debate you want - start a thread.
Ian
On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 1:08 PM, ARLO J BENSINGER JR ajb...@psu.edu wrote:
[Ian]
Even a human dropped at birth with no life memory, would have a lot of
hard-wired empathies and intellectual capacities I suspect
distinction when
we look at higher animals.
Ian says.
In the same way as biological patterns can be fossilized in the physical.
Social (and intellectual) patterns can be fossilized in the biological.
The evolution is upwards but the patterns run in all directions.
Ian
Moq_Discuss mailing list
distinction is bound up in group /
individual and constraint / freedom issues - as we have done to death
many times I'm sure.)
But fundamentally I agree that this is just a definitional problem
with what we signify by the term thinking.
Ian
On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 1:27 PM, ARLO J BENSINGER JR ajb...@psu.edu
Absolutely MRB
My secondary point was even if you were born there (my original
point was being dropped there as a fully matured human) but as I
said we're inflating your good suggestion beyond your original point.
Hence a separate thread if it's something Arlo wants to pursue.
Ian
misinterpreted ... ironically, in too
reductionist a way.
No time to elaborate today but at least we have it in a separate
thread now.
Ian
On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 2:28 PM, Arlo Bensinger ajb...@psu.edu wrote:
[Ian]
In the same way as biological patterns can be fossilized in the physical.
Social
Sure does. Thanks for the link Dan.
Ian
On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 7:26 PM, Dan Glover daneglo...@gmail.com wrote:
Hello everyone
I came across this and thought it might interest a few people here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/01/movies/magic-trip-reconstructs-footage-from-ken-keseys-bus
DMB said
Be honest, Ian. You are interested in negatively characterizing my
macho stance for personal reasons. [...] Even if I were an
autistic macho romantic, how would saying so qualify as anything more
than an ad hominem attack?
Absolutely no dmb - that phrasing just summarised Matt's
Matt, DMB,
DMB, clearly I'm nobody you need care about, you can dismiss me with
your defensive repartee anytime you like, but can you not see a
problem when you find yourself even hinting that Matt espouses phoney
and hypocritical behaviour ?
Ian
On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 9:54 PM, Matt Kundert
we were reasonably well aligned that
free-will and determinism need not be in conflict, if one took an
enlightened - balanced - MoQish view ?
Ian
On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 12:41 PM, Steven Peterson
peterson.st...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi dmb,
Steve said:... I am saying that the term free will has a usage
Marsha,
Yes,
Ian
On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 1:23 PM, MarshaV val...@att.net wrote:
Ian,
Can you explain how free-will IS relevant with the MOQ?
Marsha
On Aug 2, 2011, at 8:00 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote:
Steve, dmb
I appreciate the free-will vs determinism (in the MoQ context) debate
:-)
On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 1:35 PM, MarshaV val...@att.net wrote:
Ian,
Well, I wouldn't want anyone to think my interest was just
to disagree with dmb. I'll go fishing and let you big boys
deal with the Will.
Marsha
On Aug 2, 2011, at 8:25 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote:
Marsha,
Yes
for the free-will to operate but I'm not looking to
inject new thoughts at this point - just distinguish the current ones
amidst all the crap.)
PS that answer your question Marsha ;-)
Ian
On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 2:20 PM, Steven Peterson
peterson.st...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Ian,
Ian said:
Steve, I
. This is the real
offence.
Ian
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myself (eg my
2006 paper) - and the reason why I too sincerely still love you
(respect, if you prefer) despite the offences on the table.
Ian
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Who is the you in your question Steve ?
Ian
On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Steven Peterson
peterson.st...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 5:52 AM, Ian Glendinning
ian.glendinn...@gmail.com wrote:
DMB, Dan,
dmb said
I guess philosopher just doesn't register as a realistic option
DMB responded to Matt,
My remarks were aimed at Ian. I think your comments about trust are
quite sensible, actually. Ian seemed to be overlooking an important
point. As you put it, if one has already decided that it is
appropriate, the evasive, weasel-wordy behavior has already destroyed
Michael responded to Matt, (after Matt had drawn attention to the
warlike nature of MoQ.Discuss debate in the introduction for
newcomers).
I fear that tunnel vision in the fog of war may have settled in.
Me too. The reason I have entered into this thread initiated by
Steve's angry post.
Ian
of the
behavioral-social rules of thumb that would best lead to its
maintenance.
Me too, etc ...
Ian
On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 7:44 PM, Matt Kundert
pirsigafflict...@hotmail.com wrote:
Hi Dave,
Matt said:
I still can't help but think that attributions of the straw-man fallacy
create more emotional
water
(gratuitous inappropriate metaphor alert.)
Stick around Matt, we need your educated common sense.
Ian
On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 8:29 PM, Matt Kundert
pirsigafflict...@hotmail.com wrote:
Hey Ian,
Ian said:
As I said in the other thread, by agreeing with Arlo aparently against
me, you were
And PS Matt, I should acknowledge your point ...
And yes, a deliberate straw-man usually requires some pre-meditated
building to have occurred in advance. (But again usually people
wouldn't jump to the straw-man conclusion, without also perceiving
some prior evidence ... anyway.)
Ian
On Fri
received.
Ian
PS What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding ?
On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 6:13 AM, Dan Glover daneglo...@gmail.com wrote:
Hello everyone
On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 8:33 PM, ARLO J BENSINGER JR ajb...@psu.edu wrote:
[Dan]
Thanks for weighing in. It is good to hear from you.
[Arlo
by giving a little, getting inside the other
person (not just saying you're doing it).
Ian
PS What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding ?
On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 8:33 PM, Matt Kundert
pirsigafflict...@hotmail.com wrote:
Ian said:
...the weasley rhetorical trick of the straw-man
Hi dmb, might I suggest that similarities needed be horrific, it's not
the same as being the same.
Cup half full, rather than half-empty ...
It is positively valuable to conclude that even fascist cranks agree
on the oldest truths in the world ?
Ian
On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 4:29 PM, david
Fair enough Arlo ...
Ian
On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 12:30 PM, ARLO J BENSINGER JR ajb...@psu.edu wrote:
[Ian]
You're also creating straw men too ...
[Arlo]
My comments were not directed at you, Ian. I know that your call for love and
respect did not include the type of polite insulting
be debating word definitions ... so I'm cool.
Ian
On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 5:56 PM, Dan Glover daneglo...@gmail.com wrote:
Hello everyone
On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 3:43 AM, Ian Glendinning
ian.glendinn...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Dan,
Apart from a few minor corrections (!) like ...
I'd say the science
/ Elvis made the song
famous, it was a Nick Lowe song originally.
Ian
PS So, where are the strong, and who are the trusted ?
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conflict should be avoided - jeez -
but because it's absolutely not the point of debate simply to create
conflict and hatred - unless that is your objective, of course ? The
perpetual straw-man - and reaction to it - is a massive drag on
progress.)
Ian
PS So, who are the strong, and who are the trusted
say
earlier it seems to be the oldest truth in the world they / we are
agreeing on.
Part of the reason why I oft express frustration that we (MD in
general) still seem to be debating it.
Ian
What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding ?
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Anyone read Ian McGilchrist 2009 The Master and his Emissary - The
divided brain and the making of the western world ?
Or have any view on his work ?
I'm only 1/3 through the first 1/2 of this tome, but it looks very
promising. Left / right brain - rational vs emotional stereotyping
explained
that I'd say,
balanced and honest, and not dishonest praise to soften (butter-up) a
critical message. Both messages - friendship and correction - were
honest.
Ian
PS What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding ?
On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 2:39 AM, Dan Glover daneglo...@gmail.com wrote:
Hello
so funny after all.
Pirsig (and Dan) understand that.
Ian
PS What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding.
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