[Zope] Defining High Load in Heavily DB Driven site (was: [Zope] zope2.2.0 and what is high load)

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Hello!

I need to find more info on how Zope handles threading with relation to
database connections.

I am currently considering and evaluating Zope as one of the options we have
to build a really large, completely databasedriven "enterprise scale"
web-platform. I am a bit worried about this "maximum of 7 threads per db
connection" limitation mentioned previously, and I need to know a) what does
this mean in terms of accesibility, b) how does it affect performace, and c)
how does Zope work (in detail) with external database connections.

We are going to be using Oracle as our DB backend, all our served data will
be database *only* (some of it will be fairly large), and efficient database
connections is *crucial* to what we intend to do.

We are going to have between 10-20k users at most and I expect the maximun
of simultaneous connections to be beween 400 - 900 under heavy load; "normal
load" will probably oscillate around 25-200 simultaneous connections (these
numbers are crude guesses, but take into account increased usage over time
as more services are provided in the future).

Bandwith problems are not an issue, nor is computing power.

I would appreciate any pointers to documentation or people to ask.

Sincerely,

/dario

- ------------
Dario Lopez-Kästen Systems Developer  Chalmers Univ. of Technology
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  ICQ will yield no hitsIT Systems  Services


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[Zope] SV: [Zope] Oracle ZODB + Thanks

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

I am also interested in Oracle ZODB

I also would like to take the opportunity to thank eveybody that helped
clear the Zope  DB performace questions I had the other week. Thank you
all, it was most helpfull.

Sincerely,

/dario

- Original Message -
From: Satheesh Babu [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 7:36 PM
Subject: [Zope] Oracle ZODB (Paul's talk in Paris)


 Hi folks,

 I read  the mail about EuroZope conference. Notes on
 Paul's speech says "they have an Oracle ZODB backend.
 They have deployed it. Pending documentation..."

 Way to go DC!

 WHERE IS IT?

 I searched in CVS, couldn't find it at all... If anyone
 can point me towards this, it'll be greatly appreciated?




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[Zope] FTP crashing Zope?

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Hello!

I have latest Zope, buitl from source on a RedHat 6.2 machine.

Using FTP Explorer I crashed (killed) my Zope instance while ftping in to
port 8021. This was achieved by not setting FTP Explorer to use PASSIVe
connections. Using Passive it works like a charm.

Is this a bug in latest Zope (2.2.1) or is this expected behaviour? If, the
latter is the case, what can I do to a) turn off FTP access, b) make sure
that my Zope is up and running automagically after a crash?

Thnx

/Dario



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[Zope] Help with calcualtions in DTML

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Hello!

I have the following listing of objects in my folder:

table
  tr
tdpbName/b/p/td
td align="right"pbSize/b/p/td
td align="right"pbdate/b/p/td
  /tr
dtml-in expr="doc.objectValues()"
  tr
td
  pa href="dtml-var absolute_url"dtml-var id/a/p
/td
td align="right"
  pdtml-var get_size bytes/p
/td
td align="right"
  pdtml-var bobobase_modification_time fmt="%Y-%m-%d %H:%M"/p
/td
  /tr
/dtml-in
/table

It gives me the name of the object, the size in bytes and the modification
time in GMT.

I need to do the following: express the size in kb, format the output with
spaces for thousands.

I also need the date displayed according to my locale (+2 GMT in Sweden) so
if bobobase_modification_time is 10:48, I need to show it as 8:48, and on
top of that I also need to take dayligth savings into account.

How do I do it? The fmt strings are abviously adjusted to US standards, so
us ISO-people need to hack our own format strings :-).

I know i could calculate the size in KB myself IF I only knew how to get the
get_size attribute into a calculation expression (that goes for
bobobase_modification_time as well, however this returns as string. How do I
get the date as a date?)

Any help is appreciated and needed. Thank you.

/dario

PS: has anyone been thinking of renaming bobobase_modification_time to
something shorter and more intuitive, like, say, modification_time?

:-))


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Dario Lopez-Kästen Systems Developer  Chalmers Univ. of Technology
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Re: [Zope] Could someone explain this DateTime behaviour to me?

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

 What version of Zope are you using?
 
 Various timezone bugs in DateTime.py were fixed in the latest version of 
 Zope.

Zope 2.2.1 source release

/dario


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Re: [Zope] binary math filesize

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

 Kapil Thangavelu wrote:

  http://www.zope.org/Members/ZQR
 
  get size in kbs assuming its an int
 
  dtml-var "get_size/1000"

  dtml-var "get_size/1024"

 pedantically yours,
 --
 ethan mindlace fremen
 Zopatista Community Liason
 Abnegate I!

actually it turns out to be

dtml-var "size/1024"

get_size and getSize do not work for files (for reasons unknown to me; I am
a Zope newbie :-). haven't tried for any other objects.

Anybody knows more about the DateTime issues I posted about earlier?

/dario

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Re: [Zope] Zope and the GPL poison pill

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

- Original Message -
From: "Nils Kassube" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: "Magnus Alvestad" [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 8:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Zope] Zope and the GPL poison pill


 Magnus Alvestad wrote:

  Third, you are only obligated to distribute source to parties you have
  already distributed the binary version to.  I can't really see a
  customer buying a zope site from you and not expecting 'source'
  anyway.

 The problem is not that a client who paid for custom development
 will get the source. It's the fact that you have to release the
 source code of an enhanced GPL'ed component (and possibly stuff
 built with it) for everyone else, too.


so, your main problem here is that you take someone elses work, modify it to
suit your needs under a license that *specifically* grants you those rights,
and then, when you want to distribute your modifications, you find yourself
in a bad position, because it will mean that you would have to give
everybody else the same rights that allowed you to distribute a modification
of someone elses work, in the first place?

In other words, you don't mind being the "sharee", but do not wish to be the
"sharer", particularely when it somes to work that others have "shared" to
you? To shout bloody murder because of this is to REALLY expose one self,
don't you think?

To me, this is the ultimately reason to have the GPL around. It helps us
ensure that all that want to profit from our work but have no interest in
returning the favor will have to turn elsewhere or actually do some of the
grundwork themsleves.

Mind you that my english is not too good, so there might be som parts of
this thread that I have not fully understood or that I may have got
completely wrong; if so, fell free to enlighten me.

Sincerely,

/dario

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Re: [Zope] Zope and the GPL poison pill

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

From: "Toby Dickenson" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 If that is your motivation then you may find that you get *more* back
 by not using the GPL. My contributions to Zope (both personal and on
 company time) are fairly significant in total, and would not have
 happened if Zope was under a GPL license.


but is that because you personally don't like/endorse the GPL for
what-ever-reason or is it because the GPL actually prevents this? and if so,
could you please elaborate?

/dario


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[Zope] Any Swedish/Nordic Zope Users?

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Hello!

I am curious to see if there are any Swedish and/or Nordic users of Zope on
this list.

Cheers,

/dario

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[Zope] Fw: [cms-list] eMedicine, Inc. Receives Patent for Internet Publishing Software

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

as seen on cms list. Would this affect Zope in any way?
/dario

- Original Message -
From: "Evan Williams" [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Interesting:
 -
 Information Today: http://www.infotoday.com/it/oct00/news14.htm
 "eMedicine, Inc. (http://www.emedicine.com), the medical-education network
 and developer of the first online peer-reviewed medical reference series,
 has announced that the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office has granted a
patent
 to the company's proprietary Group Publishing System (GPS) software. The
GPS
 enables collaborative, enterprisewide publishing and allows authors and
 editors to create large, multi-author projects-online content, journals,
 books, and manuals-entirely on the Internet.
"Jeff Berezin, chief technical officer and architect of the GPS system,
 said: 'The software is unique-it is the only enterprise software that
allows
 all production to take place on the Internet. The system allows authoring
 and editing within the GPS environment or through word-processing programs
 like Word.' Software engineer Joanne Berezin, who co-developed the system,
 said, 'Our system is a complete authoring, editing, and version-control
 system with complete management-tracking tools and a built-in
communications
 network.'"
 -

 --
 Subscribe: http://www.camworld.com/cms/
 More Info: http://cms.filsa.net/
 Post: [EMAIL PROTECTED]




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[Zope] Zope + Java java Beans ??

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Hello!

newbie alert
Can I use Java with Zope? Can I call Java methods, beans from Zope/Python?
/newbie alert

Many thanks,

/dario

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[Zope] Higher Educatoin Portal/Admin

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Greetings!

I'd like to know if there are any activities regarding use of Zope to
build/support educational systems. I have searched the list and there seem
to be a few, but I cannot find out how to contact the peoiple involved.

My main interest lies in building administrative systems that ease the task
of planning and administering courses, staff and student info, schedules,
publishing info about courses, events, etc, as well building or supporting
systems that will let teachers build and integrate on-line courses with
existing admin systems (although this is secondary; there are better systems
that do this allready).

This is not an easy task, of course, because it involves a lot of analysing
the needs of an educational organisation as well as reviewing how the
organisation works, how the students preceivethe service the receive, etc,
etc. In other words, a lot of process development, instead of "technical"
development.

I am currently heavily involved in such a project. Among other things, I'd
like to have a serious discussion on the pros and cons of building such a
site/portal/whatever with Zope and why it is better to choose Zope, instead
of, say, Turbine in a combination with Jetspeed, which much more "buzzword"
(read Java) compliant.

The recent instabilities and slow response times experienced with the
zope.org site and the incomplete, possibly unstable, state of DCOracle, the
Oracle adapter (and similar concerns with some other needed Zope Products)
has been raising some questions of the suitability of Zope for this kind of
project.

On the other hand, I fail to see an alternative to Zope; of course there are
better CMS'es, better development platforms, better Oracle support
elsewhere, and so on,  but neither of those systems has the combination of
integrated features and modularity of Zope.

I am very interested in talking, even building a Zope SIG, with more people
that interested in these issues. The traffic on the main Zope list is too
heavy, and I feel this issue is better of maintained in a parallel list. I
also would like to know if there is interest from Digital Creations in this
matter.

What do you people think? Feed(back) me! :)

Sincerely,

/dario

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Dario Lopez-Kästen Systems Developer  Chalmers Univ. of Technology
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[Zope] Reasons for Apache?? SSL?? (was Running Mailman CGI under Zope ZServer)

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

 From: "Fred Wilson Horch" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Friday, November 17, 2000 2:22 AM
 Subject: [Zope] Running Mailman CGI under Zope ZServer

...snip...

 First, am I really the first person to try running CGI scripts from
 ZServer?  I have found some hints here and there of people doing
 somewhat similar things, but I haven't yet found a product for easily
 adding legacy CGI scripts to a Zope site.  It seems most people run Zope
 behind Apache.  Is ZServer really slow or buggy or something?

...other good stuff snipped...

I have a similar question. I am planning and building  a site in which about
50% of the content needs to be accessed using SSL only (it's personal
information and we are using 128-bit SSL).

Since I am only the databaseweb-guy and not a sysadmin-guy (yet :), I had
one of my colleagues configure Apache and Zope using the "Apache  ZServer"
how to. This works well and Apache serves Zope pretty well and we can even
use SSL (there are some issues to be resolved that I suspect are due to
misconfiguration on our server). However, I can always access Zope directly
using port 8080 (or whatever port where ZServer is listening to) without
SSL.

This is aboviously not the intended behaviour. Is there a way to prevent
this? I know there is ZServerSSL but isn't the whole point of using Apache
that it is a better and more robust web-server than Zserver? (apart from the
fact that we need to serve a lot of static content as well).

What are the main resons for serving Zope behind Apache?

Thanks for any input,

Sincerley,

/dario

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[Zope] ZPatterns terminology

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

 From: "Cees de Groot" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Friday, December 08, 2000 8:16 AM


 Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
 ...I disagree, ZPatterns only major flaw is that its totally immersed in
 its own jargon which very few people understand :-(
 
 That said, my impression is that if you can wade through the b/s, it's
 more than worth the effort...
 
 Hmm, maybe it's the time for a translate-zPatterns-to-english effort?

Yes, I totally agree. It seems that Zpatterns is the thing I need to make
tru my vison of self-contained plugin-components for the site(s) I am
developing. However I since I am still strugglig with the concept of
aquisition, the Zpattersn terminology makes my head spin. :-)

/dario
still digging...

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[Zope] Gopher from Zope

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

I wanna serve gopher:// from Zope :-)

Is it possible?  Don't need answers like "but gopher is old, ugly, etc", "we
will loose all fomatting, etc", etc.

Thanks,

/dario :))

read all about it:
gopher://gopher.heatdeath.org/00/the%20gopher%20manifesto.txt

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Re: [Zope] multiple selects are not allowed

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

- Original Message -
From: "Jose Soares" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Zope] multiple selects are not allowed


 from ZSQL Methods User's Guide, last row on pag. 22:

 "Note that no more than one SQL select statement may be used in a single
SQL
 Database Method."

 Diny van Gool wrote:

  Hi,
 
  I want to execute multiple SQL statements in one SQL-Method. In the
  mailinglist archives i found the answer but when i try it i get an
error:


Diny, why do you need to execute multiple selects in one SQL-Method?

Maybe there is another way of doing it?

/dario

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[Zope] index_html woes + more.... :-(

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Hello!

I am at loss on the following problem:

I have an index_html DTML-document that is only a skeleton to let me design
my site around it, based on a common structure. In index_html I call various
of dtml-documents and dtml-methods, like "main_pane" and "main_msg_box",
etc.

The idea I had (and that actually worked for some time) is that I need not
implement an index_html file in every sub-folder in my zope installation,
but that it would get inherited (aquired???) by all subfolders and that I
only needed to make a "main_pane" method, and a "main_msg_box" document.

However this is not working, anymore I might add. I cannot say what I have
done wrong. The only thing I've done is to add and remove SiteRoots with
SiteAccess2 (which btw i cannot make work, and has caused my zope to die
abruptly, w/o leaving trace in the logs). I don't know if this is related,
but i thought i'd mention it anyway.

Can anybody hint me in any direction? Please?

Here is my setup:

  Zope version: Zope 2.2.4 (source release, python 1.5.2, linux2)
  Python version: 1.5.2 (#4, Aug 16 1999, 15:42:53) [GCC 2.95 19990728
(release)]
  System Platform: sunos5
  Process ID: X
  Running for: 22 min 27 sec

Zope is running behind apache (apache + zserver).
Zope from src, compiled with /usr/bin/python wo_pcgi.py (is this correct,
btw?)

  ExternalMethod (Installed product ExternalMethod (External Method-1-0-0))
  Hotfix_2000-12-08 (Installed product Hotfix_2000-12-08)
  Hotfix_2000-12-15a (Installed product Hotfix_2000-12-15a)
  Hotfix_2000-12-18 (Installed product Hotfix_2000-12-18)
  LoginManager (Installed product LoginManager (LoginManager-0-8-8b1))
  MIMETools (Installed product MIMETools)
  MailHost (Installed product MailHost (MailHost-1-2-0))
  NewsFolder (Installed product NewsFolder)
  OFSP (Installed product OFSP (OFSP-1-0-0))
  PlugIns (Installed product PlugIns (PlugIns-0-4-3b1))
  SiteAccess (Installed product SiteAccess (SiteAccess-2-0-0))
  ZCatalog (Installed product ZCatalog (ZCatalog-2-2-0))
  ZGadflyDA (Installed product ZGadflyDA)
  ZOracleDA (Installed product ZOracleDA)
  ZPatterns (Installed product ZPatterns (ZPatterns-0-4-3b2))
  ZSQLMethods (Installed product ZSQLMethods)
  ZopeTutorial (Installed product ZopeTutorial (Zope Tutorial 1.0))

As I said, any help is appreciated.

Thank you

/dario

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[Zope] index_html woes - solved!

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

 However this is not working, anymore I might add. I cannot say what I have
 done wrong. The only thing I've done is to add and remove SiteRoots with
 SiteAccess2 (which btw i cannot make work, and has caused my zope to die
 abruptly, w/o leaving trace in the logs). I don't know if this is related,
 but i thought i'd mention it anyway.

Hello!

I solved this myself. Naturally, it was my own stupidity: it turns out that
in order to have a template permeate down to the sub-folders, it is
necessary to make it a dtml-method and not a dtml-document.

Now that I recreated my pieces as dtml-methods it all works as a charm.

Lesson learned: need to catch up on acquisition mechanism :-)

Sincerely,

/dario

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[Zope] sqlgroup problems

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Hello!

I need help with the following SQL-method, which I don't know if it is a
bug, or if it is my mistake.

I am building a search interface to a database (Zope 2.2.4 w all HF's,
Oracle 8.1.7, Solaris), and I want to use the following sqlmethod, to let
the user enter any combination of search parameters, including none:

select * from ladok.kurs
dtml-sqlgroup where
  dtml-sqltest kurs_kod column="kod"
   op="like" type="string" optional
dtml-and
  dtml-sqltest kurs_namn column="benamns"
   op="like" type="string" optional
/dtml-sqlgroup

From the Zope Book, Chapter 10, I got the impression that the "optional"
part of the sqltest tag would render the parts that where not null; i.e. if
I only specify the kurs_namn variable (first sqltest), the method would
render the following SQL:

  select * from ladok.kurs
  where
  (kod like 'XX')

or, if no search parameters where specified, it would render the following
SQL:

  select * from ladok.kurs

However this is not the case, what I get if I enter XX for kurs_kod is the
following SQL:

select * from ladok.kurs
where
(kod like 'XX'
 and benamns like ''
)

Is this expected behaviour or have I misunderstood the docs? I can get
around this problem by doing something like this (notice the op tag and the
extra ",'%')" string at the end of each sqltest line) :

  dtml-sqltest kurs_kod column="kod"
   op="like nvl(" type="string" optional, '%')

which renders the following SQL (the "%" is the Oracle wildcard operator):

select * from ladok.kurs
where
(kod like nvl( 'XX', '%')
 and benamns like nvl( '', '%')
)

however, i'd much rather that it didn't render the null variables at all.

If this is known behaviour then the examples in Chapter 10

Any help appreciated. I searched the archives but didn't find any answers,

TIA,

/dario

- 
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]  ICQ will yield no hitsIT Systems  Services


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Re: [Zope] Acquisition: DTML Methods vs Documents

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Hello!

I think hade a similar problem. It seems that you can only use methods for
acquisition, not documents.

I had an index_html DOC where I specified the structure of my site. In
index_html I used dtml-var some_doc that and in some_doc I once dtml-var
other_doc.

The idea was that in my subfolers I only needed to have the objects some_doc
and other_doc, and that I would use the structure from the index_html higher
up. This way I could provide "modules" to managers of subfolders, so they
need not to concern themselvs with the proper way of setting up their
index_html.

It didn't work unitl I changed index_html and all other objects from
dtml-docs to dtml-methods. Otherwise I would always end up with the parent
(in my case the root level) documents. I wanted to have DTML-documents in
the firts place, because I noticed that in dtml-methods the dtml-var
title_or_id call has no effect; it does not use the methods title_or_id, it
uses the toplevel (or the calling documents) title_or_id.

Is this a similar situation to yours?

/dario

- Original Message -
From: "Oleg Broytmann" [EMAIL PROTECTED]


There are many Documents on my site, not only index_html. Should I make
 them all Methods? Why after this I need Documents at all?

 Oleg.



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Re: [Zope] SELECT ... AS ... statement in ZSQL

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

- Original Message -
From: "Bowyer, Alex" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 A simple question, but I can't seem to find a simple answer in any of the
 documentation...

 How do you do a SELECT AS statement in a ZSQL method?

 For example
 SELECT FirstName + " " + LastName AS FullName


hmm... shouldn't that be

SELECT FirstName || " " || LastName as FullName

I am bit unsure of the proper syntax (I am mostly working with Oracle), but
I think you use "||" to concatenate two strings in SQL.

/dario
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Re: [Zope] Some help required but no sarcastic comments this time please

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

- Original Message -
From: "Stephane Bortzmeyer" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Zope] Some help required but no sarcastic comments this time
please


 On Tuesday 23 January 2001, at 23 h 17, the keyboard of "alankirk"
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  I am using Zope 2.2.2 on windows(this time i'd appreciate no sarcastic =
  comments this time)

 Feel free to interpret every comment you don't like as "sarcastic", but it
 will not save your business.

  to this address) and the response has been pretty poor, i've even tried
=
  to email people involved with the mysql database adaptors and got no =
  response.

 You use a commercial operating system: pay for a commercial support.

  It is really important that i get this problem sorted now if possible as
=
  my final year project for university depends on this 'bug' getting =
  fixed.

 If it is important, do not run it on MS-Windows. Otherwise, some people
may think
 you know nothing about software...


And this kind of harsh response was necessary, because... ?

/dario

*end of thread*

- 
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]  ICQ will yield no hitsIT Systems  Services



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Re: [Zope] Editors [OT]

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Textpad www.textpad.com
EditPluswww.editplus.com

I am using TextPad mostly now. Of course, given the choice, I'd much rather
use BBEdit or Alpha on a Mac

/dario

- Original Message -
From: "Chris Withers" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: "Tres Seaver" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 11:08 AM
Subject: [Zope] Editors [OT]


 Tres Seaver wrote:
 
  I'm liking it a lot -- the last reason to even consider using
  emacs is gone :)

 Hmmm... interesting, maybe it's time to find a new editor...

 My wishlist would be:

 - Runs nicely on NT4
 - Syntax highlighting for Python, C, XML, HTML (and, although this is
dreamworld
 stuff, DTML ;-)
 - FTP or WebDAV editing built in as standard (or alternative solution,
like
 cadaver making it work ;-)
 - Regular Expression search  replace
 - search  replace of multiple files

 and my dream list would be:

 - can run multiple copies of the editor at once
 - class browser for python, with expand/collapse of code (like the editor
for
 Python 2)

 Any ideas?

 cheers,

 Chris

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Re: [Zope] Ithy Trigger Fingers (was Re: [Zope] License)

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

I believe the Horse of Licenses was beaten to death in a recent thread some
month(s), if not weeks, ago. May It Rest in Peace.

This may be the Second Coming of It, but, with all due respect, License
Horses and discussions of Other License's Merits and Flaws are off-topic for
this list; I think most^H^H^H^H many subscribers will agree on this.

Imagine the consequences of having the spooky ghost of the License Horse
roaming about... *B*

Cheers,

/dario - asbestos suit is: on

- 
Dario Lopez-Kästen Systems Developer  Chalmers Univ. of Technology
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  ICQ will yield no hitsIT Systems  Services





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[Zope] [OT] Disagreement (was Re: Ithy trigger....)

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Bill Andersson wrote:

 Be that as it may, it still does not constitute a flame-war.

True. We are not having a flamewar. Yet. However, as I am sure you yourself
have experienced, licensing issues/discussions in Open Source contexts
require no more than a few heated mails to degenerate into a Flame War.
Surely you have been around long enough to see this happen (in fact you were
around this list's latest big hoopla about the GPL in September of last
year. 44 mails about "Zope and the GPL poison pill" in 3 days, 11 various
follow ups). Allready this thread has generated 16 mails so far, not
including this one.

  Imagine the consequences of having the spooky ghost of the License Horse
  roaming about... *B*

 Or worse, the fear of saying something in disagreement, for fear of being
 labelled a flame war starter.

Well, I disagree ;^), the issue here is not really whether it is allowed or
not to disagree. Of course it is allowed to disagree (which is exactly what
I am doing now), and disagreement is good: it makes you think about your
opinions one time more.

License issues (or wars) are just not on the topic of this list. And neither
is this post, so I'll stop right now :-)

/dario

btw: humour was intended in my last post, even if not obvious. sorry about
that.


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Re: [Zope] The Zope Book

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Chris McDonough wrote:
I don't think anyone has given much thought to actually documenting all
these nice nifty features in 2.9.  Which is no change from the norm, and
it will be a fairly organic process again.  I hate it, but whatever.
- C
Speaking of which, and being one of the people that promised to deliver 
but has not done so 100% yet, is it possible to checkout the Zope Book 
from cvs or svn?

That'd help a lot in terms of incrementally adding stuff, at least for me.
Thanks,
/dario
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Re: [Zope] Re: ZEO and Sessions.

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Tres Seaver wrote:
http://www.zope.org/Members/richard/ZSQLSessionDataManager

Cool.  Where is CVS for that, so that I don't bug you for features. ;)
I could import it to cvs.zope.org, if you like.
I'd like to add Oracle support since I need it myself, and when I have 
working changes would like to have them included in newer releases of 
ZSQLSessionDataManager.

/dario
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Re: [Zope] passing the parameters to zsql method

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Denis V. Gudtsov wrote:


form action=clients_add_sql
input type=text name=name
input type=text name=account
input type=submit
/form

clients_add_sql:
insert into table(name,account) values (dtml-sqlvar name type=string, 
dtml-sqlvar account type=string);

the problem is when i click the 'submit' button, the form
clients_add_sql Input Data Enter query parameters: appears.

Does someone know how i can pass the form parameters to zsql method
directly?
 



use an intermediary Script (Python), ie:
---
# extract data from form and put into zsql-method.
request = continer.REQUEST

name = request.form.get('name', None)
account = request.form.get('account', None)

# Sanity check - do we have values?
if name and account:
 # assume that the zsql-method is in the same folder as this script
 container.clients_add_sql(name=name, account=account)

 # if the zsql is not in the same folder as this script, use aquisition
 #context.clients_add_sql(name=name, account=account)
---

As you can see, introducing a script in between has other benefits as 
well, such as allowing for data verification etc.


to call the script change:

form action=clients_add_sql

to 
form action=the_name_of_your_script_goes_here



hope this helps.

/dario

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Re: [Zope] Zope 2.8 or 3.1?

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Jens Vagelpohl wrote:



On 26 Oct 2005, at 21:43, HaraldFinnås wrote:

I've also seen comments that running Zope on RHEL/CentOS might not  
be wise. My test env. is using FC4, but I'm planning to install  
CenOS 4.2 on the production server. Unwise choice?



I'd be curious to find out who says something like that. It's BS.  
Zope runs perfectly fine on all RHEL-based distributions.


The only issues you might ever run into would be problems with the  
Python that comes with the OS. But then again if you run Zope in  
production you should never ever use the system Python and build your  
own instead. The system Python tends to be compiled with weird flags  
on RH-based distros to suit their own needs for the many Python-based  
scripts they have in the OS. Don't use it, build your own.



well, on larger shops like ours, the sysadms always want to know why we 
introduce Yet Another Non-Standard Component to the system setup that 
cannot be RPM'ed like the rest. And I am not talking across pythoin 
versions, but oin the same release series (ie. 2.3, etc)


I know it is more convenient to self.compile()  the python, but it is 
always hard to argue with the sysadms on this issue. Our current 
solution is to provide a precomipiled rpm with the pythons we want to use.


Why is that the standard os-distributed pythons do not work with zope? 
They seem to work with other python sw...


/dario - being curious...

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Re: [Zope] passing the parameters to zsql method

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Denis V. Gudtsov wrote:


DLK use an intermediary Script (Python), ie:
[..skipped..]

Thank you. But, can i do this without using python? From zpt - to
zsql?

 


[cc-ing: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

well, yes in a way.

ZSQL methods have to be called like other metods, but AFAIK, they cannot 
be traversed like, for instance, scripts. As I understand it, this is  
for security reasons (I myself would never allow a zsql to be exposed 
without some scripts in between, but that's just me...)


Anyway, one way to do what you want is to do more in the zpt than may be 
advisable: exactly how to do it, I leave up to you, becasue there are 
several different ways of achieving this, but I give general directions. 
Also, there are probably other ways than what I describe below.


You can make the form post to iself, and use calls inside the form to 
prepare the input to the zsql.


lets say your zpt is called entry_form and looks something like this 
(pseudo zpt):


span tal:define=name request/form/name;
 account request/form/account;
 unused python: clients_add_sql(name=name, account=account); 
 tal:omit-tag= /


form action=entry_form
input type=text name=name
input type=text name=account
input type=submit
/form

Not sure if this works, but that is the general idea. This was inspired from

http://www.plope.com/Books/2_7Edition/AdvZPT.stx#2-9

section: Form Processing

Good luck!

/dario


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Re: [Zope] passing the parameters to zsql method

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Jean-Marc Orliaguet wrote:


Dario Lopez-Kästen wrote:

 


Denis V. Gudtsov wrote:

   


DLK use an intermediary Script (Python), ie:
[..skipped..]

Thank you. But, can i do this without using python? From zpt - to
zsql?



 




Just curious too: isn't there an easier way of doing this using schemas
/ widgets / SQL adapters?

or are the zsql scripts so very specific that they do more than simple
schema mappings?

 


all of this sound way more complex that 1 script, 1 zpt and 1 zsql...


also you might want to put that logic in a tool and protect the methods?
(scripts and ZPTs are not protected as far as I know)
 



se above...

of course, IMHO, my 2 eurocents worth, YMMV, Standard Disclaimers Apply, 
etc.


/dario

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Re: [Zope] Re: Zope 2.8 or 3.1?

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Alexander Limi wrote:

On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 13:58:31 -0700, Peter Bengtsson  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



Can I humbly recommend that you don't reinvent the wheel and have a look
at

www.issuetrackerproduct.com

It's really good for QA and general problem reporting.



Everybody wants to write their own issue tracker (and in the later 
stages  of this syndrome, their own project management software), as 
you are well  aware of. ;)


Yes, well, after all, this *is* zope and python. The There should be 
one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it. slogan applies 
only to language syntax and features.


Now, stuff created *with* the language - well, *that* is a *totally* 
different matter...


*wink*

/dario

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Re: [Zope] Python Classes and Zope.

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Andreas Jung wrote:



--On 1. Dezember 2005 13:46:55 -0200 Fernando Lujan 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



There's a way to use a Python class inside zope?

For instance, if I create the class:

class MyClass:
 A simple example class
 i = 12345
 def f(self):
 return 'hello world'

Can I invoke the following code inside a Python Script?

x = MyClass()
x.f()



PythonScripts are for *scripting* not for implementing complex
logic and for programming tasks that require classes. PythonScripts 
don't provide full Python functionality that why were are talking of 
*Restriced Python*. Consider writing your functionality as Python product.


all moral lessons aside, there are several use cases where access to 
*objects*, passed to zope2 from external packages and modules, is desirable.


Most, if not all examples, out there assume that the external 
packages/modules/classes can freely be converted to Zope-classes.


Now, assuming that I have not missed something fundamental, the problem 
the way I see it, is that when my Product recieves an object from the 
non-zope code, the object does not know anything about Zope, it is just 
a happy Python-object.


But in order to even display it in a zpt I must transmogrify it into a 
special zope-object, and *that* is not so easy as I have discovered.


In my case I am not so interested in importing the moduels or classes 
into a Script(Python) - I have allready passed the objects in question 
thtough my product, but still I get some Zope Does Not Allow That error.


So far I have not had any success with anything else than writing 
special methods in my Classes that converts the objects to dictionaries 
before passing them to the zpt or Script(Python) in question.


But that feels like a very awkward way of doing things, and it makeas it 
*very* difficult for Zope to be a nice player with non-zope objects.


My 2 €-cents worth.

/dario


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Re: [Zope] Re: Python Classes and Zope.

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Florent Guillaume wrote:

Paul Winkler wrote:


On Fri, Dec 02, 2005 at 04:12:01PM +0100, Jean-Marc Orliaguet wrote:

does zope2 do an access control based on acquisition for public 
methods, that would be a waste of resources since the answer is 
always yes, granted ?


Well, the thing is, the declaration that makes the method public
*has no effect* unless your class participates in acquisition.



That's not true. The objects of this class will be perfectly accessible 
to a restricted user:


  from AccessControl import ClassSecurityInfo
  class MyStuff(object):
  security = ClassSecurityInfo()
  security.declareObjectPublic()
  security.setDefaultAccess('allow')
  def foo(self):
  return 'bar'
  InitializeClass(MyStuff)



In Zope 2.7.8 I get a segmentation fault when I try to do the above; I 
also have the following code that manages this for any class (to avoid 
having to do that for every single class):


def _ZopifyClass(a_class):
a_class.security = ClassSecurityInfo()
a_class.security.declareObjectPublic() # Segmentation fault
security.setDefaultAccess('allow')
InitializeClass(a_class)

I cannot swithc to Zope 2.8 because my code runs in PLone 2.05 and it 
does not work with Zope 2.8.


The segmentation fault occurs in the declareObjectPublic() statement.

Is there a fix for the Zope 2.7 to this problem?

Thanks.

/dario
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Re: [Zope] Re: Python Classes and Zope.

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Jean-Marc Orliaguet wrote:


is it a typo, or did you mean:

a_class.security.setDefaultAccess('allow')



it is a type and I do mean a_class.security.setDefaultAccess('allow').

/dario

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Re: [Zope] Re: Python Classes and Zope.

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Jean-Marc Orliaguet wrote:

that's because it does not seem to work with new-style python classes in 
zope2.7


it works with:

class MyStuff:

  instead of:

class MyStuff(object):

This is what you would have got:

 File /opt/Zope-2.7/lib/python/AccessControl/SecurityInfo.py, line 
165, in apply

   dict['%s__roles__' % name] = access
TypeError: object does not support item assignment

if you'd run it without the extra call.

now, the question is if it's worth the extra effort.


aha!; thanks for the explanation.

Well, as you know, we have not officially gotten so far with 
implementing new style class features on our base classes (that is, 
unless you have checked in som extra code lately that relies on NSC)


Considering the time frame we are living with - yes, not using NSC is 
definitely the way to go for now, until I have time to upgrade to Plone 
2.1.1 and Zope 2.8 or 2.9.


Thanks!

/dario

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Re: [Zope] Products have incorrect home attribute

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

George Lee wrote:

After migrating to a new server, several of my Zope products have an
incorrect home attribute that specifies where they live on the
filesystem. However, when I try to change these attributes using an
external method, the attributes do not change. Any help?

Peace,
George


I dunno if this relates to your specific case (and apologies for perhaps 
stating the obvious). Did you delete the *.pyc files after moving the 
products?


pyc files contain information about their paths, and they do not get 
recompiled if their source file is unchanged.


hth,
/dario

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Re: [Zope] Zope vs Plone: performance issues!

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Hugo Ramos wrote:

Well... They were already using Zope's cache and Squid to proxy some static HTML
I guess the problem is Plone itself... Skins etc...



eh, sorry for probably stating the obvious. you menationed in an earlier 
mail that you have good hardware. If this hardware is multi-cpu then I 
suggest that you use some tool (i.e. taskset on linux) to bind each zope 
python process to a single cpu.


Threaded python applications does not work well in multi-cpu settings 
where there is a chance of a threaded python process being spread out 
over more than one CPU. I causes a, sometimes signinficant, performance 
loss.


Just by binding the zope python processes to a single CPU (not 
necessarily the same, just make sure that any single python process is 
not spread over more than one CPU) you will notice a preformance increase.


And like all the others said, Caching is you friend. Start by checking 
the ZODB cache numbers in the zope-conf file (too start simple). IIRC, 
the default is 5000 objects. Increase that to, say 50.000 or so (you 
mention that you have a busy site).


Good luck.

/dario

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[Zope] Re: Zope vs Plone: performance issues!

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Subject: Re: Zope vs Plone: performance issues!
Alexander Limi wrote:



On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 00:11:04 -0800, Dario Lopez-Kästen  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Start by checking the ZODB cache numbers in the zope-conf file (too  
start simple). IIRC, the default is 5000 objects. Increase that to, 
say  50.000 or so (you mention that you have a busy site).



Sorry, but this is not good advice. 5000 objects in the cache is 
normally  plenty, and you should look into caching the front-end before 
you even  consider this. 50K objects in the cache will eat *a lot* of 
memory, and  most likely cause swapping.


Cache properly with Apache or Squid in front first, then investigate 
the  more complex settings.




Does this apply for personanlsied content as well? Remember, his site is
 an intranet.

We at least, have had good results by increasing the internal ZODB
caching. I fail to see how squid could help us with a site that is
mostly non-static. It would be nicer of course if we could use some
other kind of caching, so I am always open to suggestions :-)

/dario

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Re: [Zope] Re: major problems placing authentication on an extranet site-security flaw?

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Chris Withers said the following on 2006-02-12 15:27:


Given your earlier paranoia about security


uh, us security nerds^H^H^H^H^H^H 
folks-who-have-an-strong-interest-in-security, actually prefer to call 
it eagerness. Paranoia has such negative timbre, don't you think? :-)


Nevertheless, it is not simple to implement proper security with 
cookie-based logins. I had to make my own hacked version of 
SinmpleUserFodler with seesioning on the zeo server to get it secure 
enough (it is actually a trade off from what I would have liked to have 
in the first place, but it works ok).


Cheers,

/dario


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Re: [Zope] Re: major problems placing authentication on an extranet site-security flaw?

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

michael nt milne said the following on 2006-02-14 12:30:

 As for the issue with IE6 and editing pages over SSL it all works fine
 in Firefox 1.5, so it's a browser issue which I just can't quite
 fathom just now.


 I doubt it, my guess would still be that you're doing something wrong
somewhere...
 
 Sorry but I don't agree on this one. I haven't altered any of the 
Plone 'edit page' functionality. It's out of the box. Works fine without 
SSL but on SSL trying to edit a page causes 'can't find server'. Firefox 
though works perfectly viewing and editing so it's a browser issue. I 
know of other people who have issues with IE and posting images over 
SSL. Must be something to do with POST security over IE. I'm going to 
take it up with them but don't expect too much of a response. I'm now 
about to try with Opera.


This part is *only* about setting up the servers, apache and zope in 
this context, properly.


There is nothing in Zope that works differently when serving over ssl or 
not. SSL is just a transport layer, so it does *not* affect 
zope-capabilities in any way.


I am sure you know this, but since we have learned very little (or at 
least I have - maybe I am not paying attention well enough :-):


*HOWEVER*, IIRC, plone, especially on windows (if installed with the 
windows installer) uses a trick, which is not documented at all, as far 
as I know, uses a Site Access rule.


Have you modified that rule to take advantage of the SSL -server? 
Perhaps the SiteAccess rule is triggering adn trying to redirect you to 
an address/port where there is no service listeing?


/dario

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[Zope] Re: major problems placing authentication on an extranet site-security flaw?

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Alexander Limi said the following on 2006-02-14 14:05:



On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 04:59:07 -0800, Dario Lopez-Kästen  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


*HOWEVER*, IIRC, plone, especially on windows (if installed with the  
windows installer) uses a trick, which is not documented at all, as 
far  as I know, uses a Site Access rule.



http://plone.org/documentation/faq/multiple-sites-installers

What part is not documented at all? :)



ähh... woopsy-daisy! my mistake. Sorry! 8^)

/dario - crawls back under a rock... ;)

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Give it a rest + answers. (Re: [Zope] Re: Zope + Apache on Quad Debian machine)

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Martijn Pieters said the following on 2006-03-16 12:25:

On 3/16/06, Tino Wildenhain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Hey... but thank you Jens for spending all that time writing an email
that doesn't help any1 at all...!!!


check google for multiple use of exclamation marks.



Or look up Terry Pratchett quotes on www.lspace.org:


snip

Martinj, Chris and others giving nonsential answers: Don't you guys have 
work to do instead of playing bullies on the newbies?.


To be honest, I find arrogant and pointless answers like yours way more 
annoying than a whole bunch of newbies asking more or less cluess questions.


I see a lot of this newbie bashing increasing; in fact it has been some 
years since the zope list was a good example on how to treat newbies 
politely and point them to the prope answers.


Sure, we all have loads of work and are way too stressed, we don't get 
enough sleep, yada, yada, yada... I fail to see how that is a newbie's 
fault, so no need to take it out on them.


For the benefit of all those that have tiny, tiny memory spans, the 
question of Zope's processes necessity to be CPU-bound is a horse that 
was resolved a couple of years ago (2002). It turns out that it is not a 
Zope problem (Oh, the Horror. He's bringing a non-zope question to the 
list!).


It is pythons fault, if you are grumpy old fart, or it is a feature 
if you are having a good day.


The need for threaded python processes to be CPU bound (yes, Zope is 
threaded, in case you have forgotten) arises from the fact that python 
has the GIL (Global Interpreter Lock).


For background see:

http://www.zope.org/Members/glpb/solaris

and

http://www.zope.org/Members/glpb/solaris/report_ps

As far as I know, the GIL is still there and won't go away any time 
soon. Today, the only change from 2002 is that there is a heck of a lot 
more multi-CPU machines than there were back in 2002.


So, to make a long story short: on linux there is a userspace tools 
called taskset:


http://linuxcommand.org/man_pages/taskset1.html
http://aplawrence.com/Basics/taskset.html

if there is no such command for your particular distro/kernelversion, 
look no further than:


http://directory.fsf.org/all/schedutils.html
http://rlove.org/
http://rlove.org/schedutils/
ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/util-linux/

I cannot tell you wich version to use, but I think you get the idea. I 
do believe that some distros allready include taskset in them.


So you have to write a wrapper script around zopectl (you are running a 
newer versionof zope, aren't you?) where you do this.


It has worked like a charm for us since 2002 (well, almost - since 
schedutils were new and cool back in 2002 we had regular fights with the 
sysadmins guys regarding the need to introduce 
non-redhat-aproved-kernel-hacks into the production systems. Nowadays 
taskset and related tools are included in the later RHE releases).


Regarding all other advises you have gotten so far (get more memory, 
look at your disks, get a life, etc), I am sure that they have merits, 
but as far as I can see, they don't actually solve anything at all.


The fact that the issue of the GIL is not more prominent in the Zope 
worlds, I think is because relatively few zopistas are aware that there 
is a problem; mostly, because not so many run multicpu-boxes in 
production, and also because of attitude, I suppose: since I don't have 
a problem with it, I don't care about it, and I'll inform you so.


/dario - yes... a bit annoyed at all the help some folks give...

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Re: Give it a rest + answers. (Re: [Zope] Re: Zope + Apache on Quad Debian machine)

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Tino Wildenhain said the following on 2006-03-21 14:51:


Otoh, I have yet to see the figures showing the CPU afinity
buys you anything in reality. We know the GIL, thats for sure
but I never saw a measureable difference binding a process
to a CPU (which is also highly depending on the OS scheduler)



for us, it makes all the difference between zope sucks, why do we 
bother with this non-sense, non-standard, butt-slow appserver, and use 
Java or PHP instead and nice, zope based solutions are really nice, 
not only feature wise, but also speedy. And they are clusterable too, neat!


/dario


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Re: Give it a rest + answers. (Re: [Zope] Re: Zope + Apache on Quad Debian machine)

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Jeff Donsbach said the following on 2006-03-21 17:26:


Dario,
Do you have any kind of comparison numbers of using CPU affinity
vs not for your particular case? Also, are you using ZEO or not?  It's
not that I don't believe you when you say it matters a lot for you. I
do believe you. Like Tino, I'm just generally interested in how much
it matters in measurable terms. I can imagine there are a number of
factors determining how much it matters, like Zope app/workload as
well as the underlying hardware architecture (how big of a penalty is
it to synchronize cache pages between CPUs) and the OS CPU scheduler
as Tino mentioned.


To be honest, we have never had the inclination to do much of research 
in this area. Our situation has mostly been such that we experience 
horrible delays in zope-responsiveness in testing that vanish as soon as 
we use taskset. This is on both Solaris (with the equivalent of taskset 
there) and Linux .


Since then (and for other reasons), we have migrated all of the central 
servers we manage from Solaris to Linux, so I cannot give any more input 
about Solaris.


Yes, we use ZEO almost exclusively, it is realtively easy to setup even 
fpr development and we don't deploy without ZEO anymore. It makes a fair 
bit of improvement as well.


We have an app (the one that tooks us on the road to zope) that for 
various reasons has not updated properly since 2002 when we first had 
our multicpu experiences.


This particular app receives quite a bit of load, and since it is built 
entirely thru the web with by now age-old DTML and 
ye-olde-zope-techniques, it is not the speediest in the world. Add to 
that the fact that we use DCOracle2(*) to do Oracle queries, and we 
sometimes expericence hangups on the ZEO clients.


For this app, we have successfully delayed it's demise and avoided 
total chaos by adding more ZEO clients (at the moment, these clients 
runt on two machines, four processes on one and two processes on the 
other). Well, we also have scripts that restart the nodes when the leak 
memory too much, and so on. BUT: the speed of the app has increased with 
each node we add.


I am sorry that I cannot give more numbers - I hear from the traffic on 
the list that there are other factors involved nowadays that may in some 
way obsolete the need to bind to a particular CPU, however I do not 
understand how this can have an impact on the GIL.


Let me be the first to admit my total lack of knowledge of kernel task 
schedulers, but generally speaking, unless the scheduler makes sure that 
a threaded python process never ever gets distributed over two 
processors simultaniously,  then the GIL *will* be an issue.


In any event, I'd love to be proved wrong about the need for taskset 
(especially if someone comes up with measurable data to that effect) 
because it means that my sysadmins can simplify their setup for managing 
Zope (making Zope even more acceptable :-).


Cheers,

/dario

(*) We have not been able to use the versions of DCOracle2 that ChrisW 
has worked on, because we expericend nother set of problems with them 
and we never had the opportinuty to really spend time chasing those 
bugs. I believe ChrisW's DCO2 does solve some of the issues that the 
original DCO2 has


Please note that the problems we had with it, may very well becasue of 
our particular setup (Oracle 8, bad code in our app, even worse sql, 
etc). I have heard that for other people Chris's DCOracle2 versions work 
better than the non-modified DCO2, so YMMV.


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Re: Give it a rest + answers. (Re: [Zope] Re: Zope + Apache on Quad Debian machine)

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Chris Withers said the following on 2006-03-22 01:36:

Dario Lopez-Kästen wrote:

Dario, I actually think your comment here is a bit out of order if 
you're referring to this post of mine:


http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope/2006-March/165574.html



yes, it was and I apologise for it, you did point to relevant 
information and I was unfair towards you.




In all fairness, the quality of newbies was better back then. Too many 
people come to this list nowadays asking about stuff without bothering 
to do any research and often asking about Plohn, whereas their own lists 
would be much better...


They then get arsey because people won't bend over backwards to help 
them answer the same question they asked before, even though they're not 
even paying the people they're expecting to help them.


Unfortunaltey, that is the ways things work, and I think we all have to 
prepare to be nice to those newbies too. Back then, when we are a select 
few that used zope and zope was not so on-topic as it is today, the 
ones that were on the list were interested in Zope-the-technology and 
thus could ask sensible questions.


Generally speaking, with the growing poularity of Zope-solutions, where 
Plone and CPS being popular solutions more or less hide the technology 
behind, we get a bunch of people that do not necessarily care about the 
technology behind plone/cps, they just wnat things to work.


Also, especially having the marketing zope discussions happening on 
other lists, we need to come to terms with the fact that zope does not 
exist in isolation from it's environment. Questions on the general Zope 
list about issues and successes in deploying Zope, Zope performance 
*ARE* legitimate questions on the list.


Even if the real answer is it's a python thing. If folks don't care 
for politeness and a will to help users, then they should see it as a 
technical issue. Zope is probably the largest Python Threaded app there 
is at the moment (perhaps the largest Python app, period?) - Zope has 
lead to bugs being discovered in Python that get fixed in newer Python 
releases.


So, questions and issues about threaded Pytohn apps are very likely  to 
be related to Zope, and shoudl not be dismissed ad-hoc-ly, in spite of 
the answer being google is your friend: zope+multi+cpu


enough sleep, yada, yada, yada... I fail to see how that is a newbie's 
fault, so no need to take it out on them.


It's a two way street...


Indeed, and in hindsight, I guess I reverted to this behaviour as well 
:P. Sorry about that.




http://www.zope.org/Members/glpb/solaris/report_ps



Having chatted with both the author and the researcher of that paper, I 
don't remember the results being as clear-cut as you imply ;-)




having experienced this first hand, before the paper arrived (and it did 
help me find the solution), I think I disagree :-)


Still, had Hugo bothered to do even some cursory googling, would he not 
have found all that information?


http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=zope+multi+cpu


I guess he was under the wrong impression that the zope-list was a 
friendly and safe place to ask questions and get community support :)


Joke aside, yes, he would have found the answer probably, but we cannot 
expect all netizens to be civilised and know proper behaviour. I think 
Checkov (or someone) said something along the lines of good table 
manners is not to not spill sauce on the table, but to not notice when 
someone else does.


I think we could do with something similar about netiquette.

Regarding all other advises you have gotten so far (get more memory, 
look at your disks, get a life, etc), I am sure that they have merits, 
but as far as I can see, they don't actually solve anything at all.



I think you're stepping outside the bounds of reasonable argument here...

The other advice, in fact, more often than not, has more impact on more 
zope installations...




I'd love to see more data and less opinion about this - and no, I am not 
being sarcastic here. If we can avoid taskset then the setup is *way* 
simpler for our sysadmins, so I have a real interest here.




Actually, most people run multiple zeo clients on multi-processor boxes 
and let the native task scheduler do the right thing. For most 
people this seems to work just fine...




See above.

/dario

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Re: [Zope] Zope 2 for Windows

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

michael nt milne said the following on 10/12/2006 01:33 PM:
 No I get your point. I just feel that anti-windows feeling has to be
 flagged up. If not it gets endemnic and hopefully occasional pointers
 will feed in organically. Ultimately in OSS though people will do what
 they want and that is also part of the value. Finally I don't think I am
 'whining' on this.
 

there is no anti-windows feeling, even if some people make snug remarks
about windows. There is a lack of windows-savvy developers that have
time and resources to maintain the windows builds.

However, that is a totally different issue, and your attitude does not
help.

So, if there are some souls here on this list that are less than
pleasant at times (yeah, you know who you are :-), then by all means
show some class and do not try to behave like them.

so, to repeat: there is no anti-windows conspiracy, just an unfortunate
lack of windows-savvy developers (I'll have to add that can afford the
ms development tools ;-).

my 2 eurocents.

Cheers,
/dario
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Re: [Zope] Zope Alternative

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Chris Withers said the following on 11/13/2006 12:11 PM:
 Hafeliel wrote:

 If you could, please take a moment to surf on over to
 http://zopereplacement.wikidot.com/
 
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll
 
 http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=numpty
 
 Try doing a bit more digging before wasting your time writing this rubbish.
 
 I suggest you take a good long hard look at Zope 3, read the 2 books,
 and then come back...

yeah, I can see how this kind of attitude draws lots and lots of new
followers to zope.

Sure, the man might be mistaken and misinformed, but  if it is hard to
understand the tool, maybe some docs or references might be in order,
thoughI fail to see anythign zope related in
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll unless we mean to describe
the attitude towards criticism we/some of us don't like (like to deal
with?).

I am sure that treating him like dirt under our shoes will help improve
his perception of zope and why it is such a wonderfull tool.

I am not sure, however, that the zope community needs this kind of ad
hominem argumentation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem) towards
any and all that raise any kind of issue with zope.

Whatever.

/dario

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Re: [Zope] Zope Alternative

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

For the record: my original response was not aimed at you personally
Chris, it was just that your mail triggered the whole thing. I apologize
for making you the target (and for feeding some trolls :).

Chris Withers said the following on 11/13/2006 04:38 PM:
 
 Well, he's treating us like dirt, Dario. Rather than spending time
 helping to document Zope, he's gone off and built a wiki slating it.
 Thanks, but no thanks...

hm... ok, point taken. However: he is not treating us like dirt. Not all
zope-users have the historical baggage where zope gets treated like a
second class citizen in the Python community, usually with some gross
misconception about what zope does as a basis for that.

If he publishes a wiki with some misconceptions, so what? Will it have
more impact than all the other sites that don't grok zope and therefore
dismisses it? No, probably not.

But us going on like you obviously don't get it, do you? In fact, you
dont seem to get anything about the web, even. Go away! is not the way
either: instead of getting an enlightened zope user, we get yet another
zope sucks-person with a bunch of misconceptions about zope out in the
wild.

I am not defending his misconceptions (if there are any - i haven't
spent much time reading his wiki, really) and I generally agree that
spending time thinking about a fork is futile. I somehow can understand
his position, though, having rewritten some of our systems based on what
they should do, instead of trying to understand the original spaghetti
code (but my code is nowhere near the complexity of Zope, on the other
hand).

Nevertheless, I think we as a community could show some class and style.
Everybody needs to be treated with some degree of respect, and it's not
like he's going to write a zope fork, in real life; and so what if he
did, if it was better, then we could probably learn something, if it
isn't better, nothing will have changed for us.

 This certainly isn't the case. People who expect their work to get doen
 for them for free will get a hard time. I'd suggest that people who come
 with particularly unconstructive approaches to how zope may be improved
 will also come in for a similarly hard time...

Yes, in general, but in our case, I get the feeling that *anyone* that
does not agree with the zope-philosophy, or questions the way zope
works, gets a smack in the head. This is just the latest example.

I am not trying to tell people how to behave, though, even if it may
sound like it - I am just trying to point out some things about our
attitude that we should be aware of as a community.

/dario

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Dario Lopez-Kästen, IT Systems  Services Chalmers University of Tech.
Lyrics applied to programming  application design:
emancipate yourself from mental slavery - redemption song, b. marley

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Re: [Zope] Zope Alternative

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

michael nt milne said the following on 11/14/2006 10:59 AM:

 You make some very valid, correct points but then also make a very
 incorrect assumption as well. I don't believe the original poster is a
 troll and neither am I or anyone else who has agreed that this list
 needs to have some more class and enlightenment.

agreed, but I meant this jokingly, and besides: perhaps we *all* could
characterise ourselves as trolls we when spend 8 more or less
consecutive mails on the list for name calling of various sorts :-)

/dario

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Re: [Zope] Zope Alternative

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Chris Withers said the following on 11/15/2006 09:00 AM:
 But us going on like you obviously don't get it, do you? In fact, you
 dont seem to get anything about the web, even. Go away! 
 
 If that's true, then why not?
 

because it is not nice and we behave like them if we do? :-)

 either: instead of getting an enlightened zope user, we get yet another
 zope sucks-person with a bunch of misconceptions about zope out in the
 wild.
 
 Some people can't be helped...

well, we don't need more of them, so we should avoid that as much as we
can...

 Everybody needs to be treated with some degree of respect, and it's not
 
 Sorry, I disagree. Respect is a mutual thing.

oh, yes, but when someone solicits opinions and gets whacked in the head
 because we don't like his ideas, then it is us that lack in respect,
not them.

 Yes, in general, but in our case, I get the feeling that *anyone* that
 does not agree with the zope-philosophy, or questions the way zope
 works, gets a smack in the head. This is just the latest example.
 
 Nah, I don't agree, sorry. If that had been the case, how did Zope 3
 come into being? ;-)

Because Jim is not someone to get smacked in the head? :-)

 I am not trying to tell people how to behave, though, even if it may
 sound like it - I am just trying to point out some things about our
 attitude that we should be aware of as a community.
 
 I'd say, as a community, we don't tolerate fools lightly. I see that as
 a good thing...

It is a problem because that makes us stand out as bunch of ignorable,
elitist *ssh*les  to the world. That is not a good thing in my book.

YMMV.

/dario

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Lyrics applied to programming  application design:
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Re: [Zope] Database connectors

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

rieh25 said the following on 11/16/2006 09:12 PM:
 I wanted to do it because for some reason, my oracle connector (DCOracle)
 keeps disconnecting, and so I thought maybe it would be possible to define a
 python method to periodically check on it and reconnect it if necessary.
 

i one ancient app that i am trying to modernise, I have a python script
that gets called by wget with cron every N minutes. That script calls a
zsql that does a select from dual, and the script catches any errors.

The set up is a s follows:

* My site uses several DCO2 connections objects, one for each of a bunch
of schemas in the database. We serve the site in a cluster of 6 nodes
(using zeo - nothing fancy: 4 nodes from one machine, 2 nodes from
another machine).

* for various reasons, the connecions get dropped sometimes, and we need
to catch that and restart the affected node. Hence the scripts.

* All my DCO2 connection objects are at the root of the site, so they
are easy to acquire.

* in the root of the site, I have a folder heartbeat. That folder
contains one ZSQL method for each of the DCO2 connection objects, and
one Python script that is used to check one or all of the connections'
status.

The sql in the ZSQL methods is supersimple:

--begin sql--
select 'name_of_dco2_connection', sysdate from dual
--end sql--

and the Python script looks like this:

--begin script---
## Script (Python) index
##bind container=container
##bind context=context
##bind namespace=
##bind script=script
##bind subpath=traverse_subpath
##parameters=name=None
##title=
##
 This script checks the status of connection 'name'. If 'name' is
None, check all connections

if name is None:
# Check all connections. Get list of zsql methods in
# the same folder as this script.
cobjs = [obj for obj in context.ZopeFind(container,
obj_metatypes=('Z SQL Method',))]
for o in cobjs:
# call each script: o[0] is the name,
# date is the result from the script
try:
sys, date = (o[0], o[1]()[0].sysdate)
print sys, str(date)
except ConflictError:
# apparently, ConflictErrors need to be passed on
raise
except Exception, Msg:
# oops, something Oracle-y messed up
print o[0], str(Exception), str(Msg)

# return the results
return printed

# try individual names
try:
# see if the connection exists (actually we
# check if there is a zsql named 'name'
con = container[name]
except KeyError:
print There is no connection named %s%name
return printed

try:
# found it, check it
sys, date = name, con()[0].sysdate
print sys, str(date)
return printed
except ConflictError:
# apparently, ConflictErrors need to be passed on
raise
except Exception, Msg:
print name, str(Exception), str(Msg)
return printed

# We shouldn't be here, so aliens must have
# hijacked us
print ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!
return printed
--end script--

I have cron job that calls a shell script that uses wget to call

www.insert your site here.com/heartbeat/index

that shell script compares the output from wget to decied if there is an
error or if the connections are ok.

If there is an error, we restart the node that had problems.


Hope this helps, it works for us :-)

/dario


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Re: [Zope] building zope and plone behind apache2

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Allen Huang said the following on 11/17/2006 06:34 AM:
 I'm using a linux to run my plone and I wish to build it behind apache2.
 The documentation on the Plone site is for plone that are build behind
 apache2 on a Debian system. But I'm using a platform call Scientific
 Linux and I couldn't find a lot of folders and files mentioned in that
 documentation.
  
 What should I do now? Is running build building zope and plone behind
 apache2 same for all the linux system?

yes, the only differences are usually in where the config files are
stored and how the services start. The apache specific stuff should be
the same, or at least very similar.

/dario

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Re: [Zope] Checking in pages, scripts, and sql methods to SVN

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Sinang, Danny said the following on 11/17/2006 01:33 AM:
 Hello,
  
 Is there a Zope product out there that would allow me to check into SVN
 my Zope objects (i.e. TAL pages, Python scripts, and ZSQLMethods) ?
  
 If not, can anyone here show me some skeleton code to :
  
 1. Enumerate these objects
 2. Reference them as files
  

if you are not using a too recent zope, you could use APE to mount a
filesystem based storage, and copy all your code there. APE will store
your code on the filesystem.

Then using either CMF, Plone or products such as FileSystemSite you can
create Filesystem Directory views that opens a readonly hole from the
zodb to the fielsystem.

Note that this is a somewhat messy one way operation; after succeeding
you should keep working on the filesystem, enjoy better editors and
source code control tools :-)

Hope this helps.

/dario


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Re: [Zope] Database connectors

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

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Re: [Zope] Database connectors

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Dario Lopez-Kästen said the following on 11/17/2006 01:07 PM:
 Do you know these reasons?
 
 yes, we sometimes get deadlocks in the database, net outages and general
 misbehavior of DCO2. 

Sorry, i am casting too much blame on DCO2 here; in reality we have a
combination of zope2.6, large file uploads and downloads, not
necessarily good code on our end, AND quite a lot of DCO2 strangeness.

/dario

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[Zope-dev] Using Java (or JDBC) with Zope/Python

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Hello!

I am exploring the possibilities of using JDBC with Zope, as well as
investigating whether JavaBeans could be used from Zope/Python.

It seems that most Python/Java stuff use the JPython/Jython approach and,
IIRC, Zope and Jython/JPython don't mix very well/at all.

Any pointers, references, comments, etc accepted.

Sincerely,

/dario

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[Zope-dev] Zope dumping core

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Hello!

I am runing zope 2.2.5 on a Solaris box, and it is dumping core (suspect:
SQL MEthods with oracle, FTP server).

I am using it in conjunction with oracle. Could this be the culprit?

Any help is appreciated. If we cannot get Zope to be stable we'll have to
abandon it; this is not on my list of preferred actions, but we have very
little in zope at the moment, jet it is unstable. We'll soon need to start
moving to production and more heavy testing.

DC: what do you charge for technical support? Contact me off list, please.

Do any of you have any hints on how to track down the source of the failing.
AFAIK I have set up everything to log as much as possible, but there is no
hint of anythin in the logs. Also I don't know how to read the logs. I'll
poke around the sources, but if anyone has some info they'd like to share,
i'd appreciate it a lot.

Sincerely,

/dario

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[Zope-dev] z2.py and environment variables

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Hello!

I am trying to understand how z2.py and enviroments variables work, so that I can have 
complete control of how I start Zope. I-am-not-a-Python-programmer-yet, so I apologise 
in advance if the question is a stupid one.

Given the possibility to use INSTANCE_HOME etc, can I override most of the uppercase 
variables defined in z2.py by setting and exporting them in my /bin/sh script or are 
the only "overridable" variables the ones defined and used in 

   lib/python/App/FindHomes.py?

My guess would be the ones in FindHomes.py, as calls like 

  try: home=os.environ['SOFTWARE_HOME']

seems to have something to do with it :-)

I just need to make sure which one is the case.

Thanks.

/dario

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Re: [Zope-dev] Declaring interfaces for Products

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

   In order to be able to publish a method TTW, they need to have a
docstring,
   right?
 There is a project proposal to eliminate this DocString abuse

:-) sounds nice :-)


   Now, in my interface defintion I want to provide doc-strings for all
methods
   that are exposed (the interface), but not all them are to be
publishable
   TTW. Can I achieve this by using docstrings for my methods in the
Interface,
   but not in the Implementation, or do I need to omit the doc-string in
both
   the Interface and the Implementation?
 It should be enough to omit the doc string from the implementation.

excellent, thank you Dieter.

/Dario



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[Zope-dev] Pre-process a REQUEST before Zope does anything else

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Hello!

I am, uh..., reluctant to dig thru more code that I allready have, so if
some one has an easy answer for the following I'd be a gratefull :-)

For my user_folder product project(*), I need to be able do some processing
for each and every request that is sent to zope to determine some
enviromental thingies, *before* the request is processed by the main zope
mechanisms. I would like this to happen transparently (i need to check into
a database and do some time-out calculations to determine whether the
session is still valid).

Is there such a hook in AccessControl or in any other place? How to the
various sessionmanagers deal with this?


Thanks,

/dario

(*) it's not a new one, it's a customisation of an existing, and code will
be provided to the original author so he can decide if it should be or not
included in the product.
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[Zope-dev] HTMLFile vs DTMLFile

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Hello!

Why would one want to use DTMLFile or HTMLFile, and what are the
differences, benefits or drawbacks of each?

Thanks in advance,

/dario - wanting to understand...

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[Zope-dev] Problems with Oracle DA and Dates

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

(I apologise in advance for the crosspost, but I think this is a valid
question on both the zope-db and zope-dev lists. If you disagree, flame
away, and I'll never do it again. oh, btw: flame in private mail, please)

Hello!

We have run into a showstopper problem here where it seems (we're not sure
yet) that there is a severe problem using dates returned from the Oracle DA
adapter. Other possible culprits include LocalFS, Transparent Folder,
Formulator and the source release of Zope 2.4.1.

The problem is that Zope either dies, core dumps and dies, or slows down to
a crawl.

We are using the Zope 2.4.1 release, with Transparent folders and LocalFS,
latest, and a sligthly modified Formulator.

There are about 2-6 people working and developing in it during all hours of
the day (24 hours).

Unfortunately nothing shows up in any of the logs, so they are of little
use; I don't even have a traceback so display. We *think* we found sometign
pointing at LocalFS in one of the coredumps, but we are lowly non-unix
programmers, and have no idea if this is accurate info or not. It could just
be un-collected garabage memory.

Is anybody noticing anything similar, or if you have any opinion on what
might be going on, please reply; we are in DS mode here (we are having a
prototype presentation during two weeks, starting tomorrow) and are feeling
a bit desperate.


Sincerely,

/dario


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[Zope-dev] How to render DTML that is not stored in the ZODB?

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Hello!

I have a bunch of dtml in my Oracle DB, that I of course want to render.

doing the dtml-var expr=_.getitem('column_name', 1) does not work.

I essence Zope does not render strings in variables to DTML.

Any suggestions? (It has to be DTML)

*MANY* Thanks In Advance.

/dario

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Re: [Zope-dev] How to render DTML that is not stored in the ZODB?

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

 My suggestion would be to create a very thin wrapper class in Python for
 DTMLFile and use the advanced tab of the ZSQLMethod to make each row into
a
 DTMLMethodish type thing.

 See:

 http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Guides/ZSQL-HTML/ZSQL.1.4.6.4.html

Thanks, I'll look into that later on. For now, since I am under
time-preassure, I opted for _.string.replace()...

Thanks again,

/dario


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[Zope-dev] Lowlevel python/Zope Errors: asyncore.py and others...

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Hello!

I have a serious problem with Zope. We repeatedly get the following kind of
errors:

2001-09-05T13:45:12 ERROR(200) ZServer uncaptured python exception, closing
channel zhttp_channel connected XX.XX.XX.XX:1186 at ab1174 channel#: 10
requests:5 (
socket.error:(32, 'Broken pipe')
[/usr/local/zope/dist/Zope-2.4.1/ZServer/medusa/asynchat.py|initiate_send|21
4] [/usr/local/zope/dist/Zope-2.4.1/ZServer/medusa/http
_server.py|send|414]
[/usr/local/python-2.1.1-no_pymalloc/lib/python2.1/asyncore.py|send|330])

and

---
2001-09-28T14:09:40 ERROR(200) zdaemon zdaemon: Fri Sep 28 16:09:40 2001:
Aiieee! 28590 exited with error code: 138

(error code can also be 139, 256
---

and
---

and a lot of these:

--
2001-10-03T15:00:27 INFO(0) Z2 CONFLICT Competing writes at,
/ka/sys/PageHandling/manage_renameObjects
Traceback (innermost last):
  File /usr/local/zope/dist/Zope-2.4.1/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py,
line 175, in publish
  File /usr/local/zope/dist/Zope-2.4.1/lib/python/Zope/__init__.py, line
240, in commit
  File /usr/local/zope/dist/Zope-2.4.1/lib/python/ZODB/Transaction.py, line
302, in commit
  File /usr/local/zope/dist/Zope-2.4.1/lib/python/ZODB/Connection.py, line
324, in commit
ConflictError: '\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x009\xda'
---

Our Zope usually locks up big time when this happens. If anybody has some
asyncore.py zen to share and can explain what is going on? We are using
transparent Folders, dunno if it is related to that (I am blaiming most
everything on transparent folders these days ;-).

I found some info on google, suggesting this is an old problem:

with Zope 2.1.6

http://www.zope.org/Members/tseaver/Projects/HighlyAvailableZope/Zope%20hang
ing%20%28poss.%20threads-related%29

and Zope 2.3.1

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Mail/Message/zope-Dev/531379

We are using the Zope 2.4.1 source release with Python 2.1.1, no pymalloc.
IE Clients.

Thank you for any input.

/dario
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With Oracle as well Re: [Zope-dev] More signal 11 restarts....

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Matt Kromer wrote:

 We have not been able to reproduce this problem in any deterministic way
 -- and the only people who seem to have it are those who are heavy MySQL
 users; it makes me think there is something in the adapter which is not
 behaving the same way under Python 2.1 than it did under Python 1.5.2.
  I have not looked at the adapter, so I'm making a few guesses as what
 is going wrong.

Well, sorry to disapoint everybody, but we have the same signal 11 restarts
here.

We are using DCO2 latest from CVS and have _very_ high Oracle database
usage.

We have yesterday changed from our solaris box to a linux box and
performance has increased dramatically (the linux box ia a 1.8 GHz P3 :).

also the threading problems we previously had seem to  have dissapeared.

Our current setup:

redhat 7.2
Oracle client 8.1.7
Python 2.1 source compiled --without-pymalloc
Zope 2.4.3 with transparent folders, formulator, replace support, localfs
lastest DCO2

Now, what can we do to pin down the problem. Is there anyone else that is a
heavy databse user on similar circumstances that can share information?

I am starting to suspect that there is some kind of DA problem here...

Also, for the record we usually get a bunch of these quite often:

2001-11-04T09:04:33 ERROR(200) ZServer uncaptured
  python exception, closing channel zhttp_channel connected
  XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX:2181 at fb4edc channel#: 2286 requests:4
  (socket.error:(32, 'Broken pipe')

[/usr/local/zope/dist/Zope-2.4.1/ZServer/medusa/asynchat.py|initiate_send|21
4] [/usr/local/zope/dist/Zope-2.4.1/ZServer/medusa/http_server.py|send|414]
[/usr/local/zope/sw/Python2.1.1/lib/python2.1/asyncore.py|send|330])


We were seeing the same error (asyncore.py|send|330, etc) on solaris.

Any thoughts?

/dario


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Re: With Oracle as well Re: [Zope-dev] More signal 11 restarts....

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

 
 
 Well, that means the browser user clicked 'stop'  -- Medusa is just 
 telling you the channel went away on it.  Thats normal when the browser 
 chops the tcp connection.


*looong sigh of relief*

/dario


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Re: [Zope-dev] yes, segv11 and Broken pipes

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

From: Dirk Datzert [EMAIL PROTECTED]


 Its a Linux 2.2.19. What does IIRC means ?

IIRC means If I Recall Correctly, IIRC :-)

And these problems occur also on solaris, so there's nothing linux centric
about them.

/dario

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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: large files and --pymalloc on the new release? (was Re: no more SIG11 ...)

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

From: Chris McDonough [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Leonardo Rochael Almeida wrote:
snip

  Also, what about the --pymalloc? Is the binary Zope Python going to be
  compiled with it? should I still fear it?

 Dunno.  Was it compiled in before?  Isn't this an issue that is solved
 in a roundabout way by not having stack pointer computation bugs in the
 first place?  I'm not sure how all of these bugs interact with each other.

  We almost lost a big client and almost got a lawsuit because we were
  bitten by both (or would that be three: RestrictedCompiler, ceval and
  --pymalloc?) bugs at the same time and took a long time to figure out
  how to work around them.

 Sorry to hear that.


Is there a way to perform some tests or is there a testsuite that can be
used to stress test these issues? I too got bitten by these bugs + assorted
thread related errors, which has cost us very dearly in our project in terms
of both time, additional costs and unexpected hardware investments due to
change of deployment platform, so I *really* would like to have some way of
being able to confirm if these bugs are dealt with or no. I am not sure
there are any consistent tests for this, though, so hints on what to look
out for are equally appreciated.

thnks,

/dario

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[Zope-dev] Core dumps - How to find out the bug?

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Hello!

I wonder what to do when zope coredumps?

I have been given the advice to hook up gdb to zope/python and see what
happens, but there are two problems with this:

1) I barely know gdb at all, let alone know how to hook it up to a running
process
2) The dumps happen at random (last one happened at 3 in the morning when a
co-worker was working from home).

I only have core dumps to work from. I include the stack from latest core
dump.

I am using python 2.1.2 (release), Zope2.4.3 release, RedHat Linux 7.2.
Python is compiled --without-pymalloc

What can I do more to track this down?

Thanks,

/dario

-
#0  0x0806fb77 in subtract_refs (containers=0x80b228c) at
./Modules/gcmodule.c:170
#1  0x0806ff74 in collect (young=0x80b228c, old=0x80b2298) at
./Modules/gcmodule.c:382
#2  0x080701c2 in collect_generations () at
./Modules/gcmodule.c:479
#3  0x08070255 in _PyGC_Insert (op=0x8c1dbbc) at
./Modules/gcmodule.c:508
#4  0x0807eb8e in PyMethod_New (func=0x82fa3dc, self=0x8c1d50c,
class=0x82f9f14) at Objects/classobject.c:1834
#5  0x0807c74c in instance_getattr2 (inst=0x8c1d50c,
name=0x8168e00) at Objects/classobject.c:642
#6  0x0807c67e in instance_getattr1 (inst=0x8c1d50c,
name=0x8168e00) at Objects/classobject.c:608
#7  0x0807c789 in instance_getattr (inst=0x8c1d50c,
name=0x8168e00) at Objects/classobject.c:656
#8  0x0808d291 in PyObject_GetAttr (v=0x8c1d50c,
name=0x8168e00) at Objects/object.c:1052
#9  0x0809b7ba in builtin_hasattr (self=0x0, args=0x8d8cb94) at
Python/bltinmodule.c:886
#10 0x08058df1 in call_cfunction (func=0x80c79c8, arg=0x8d8cb94,
kw=0x0) at Python/ceval.c:2850
#11 0x080577ac in eval_code2 (co=0x82d91a0, globals=0x82ebd9c,
locals=0x0, args=0x8a3a7e0, argcount=1, kws=0x0, kwcount=0,
defs=0x0, defcount=0, closure=0x0) at Python/ceval.c:1952
#12 0x080590a3 in call_eval_code2 (func=0x82f9fb4, arg=0x8a3a7d4,
kw=0x0) at Python/ceval.c:2971
#13 0x08058ce4 in call_object (func=0x82f9fb4, arg=0x8a3a7d4,
kw=0x0) at Python/ceval.c:2810
#14 0x08058f77 in call_method (func=0x82f9fb4, arg=0x80cb8fc,
kw=0x0) at Python/ceval.c:2928
#15 0x08058cd1 in call_object (func=0x8b9f2dc, arg=0x80cb8fc,
kw=0x0) at Python/ceval.c:2808
#16 0x08058bcb in PyEval_CallObjectWithKeywords (func=0x8b9f2dc,
arg=0x80cb8fc, kw=0x0) at Python/ceval.c:2745
#17 0x0807c433 in PyInstance_New (klass=0x82f9f14, arg=0x80cb8fc,
kw=0x0) at Objects/classobject.c:489
--
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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 2.4.4b1 dumps core

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

- Original Message -
From: Andreas Jung [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Dario Lopez-Kästen [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 7:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 2.4.4b1 dumps core


 Does this problem persist when you remove the 3rd-party products ?
 Are you running Zope with enabled garbage collector ?

 - aj


Hm... I think I am - I have not done anything to turn it off.

Unfortuntatly I can't remove all 3rd party products - if I do, I don't have
much of a testcase, because then I don't have an app to test against. Like I
remove DCO2 I only get errors, because lots of data is used in presenting
layouts, pages etc.

If I remove formulator, I get errors, because the pages that I would need to
test, give errors.

I can remove TransparentFolders and possibly strippogram, but we have
previously done tests to see if TP slowed things down, but got no colcusive
results (and no decrease in core dumps either).

I can also remove Strippogram, but it is a late addition. We have had core
dumps since the days of borked Python 2.1 and Zope 2.4.3/2.4.2 - culprits
have been, in the past, old versions of DCO2, previous versions of Python
and old versions of exuserfolder (which we don't use anymore).

The only thing I have to go on is that as son as there are lots of
PythonScripts involved thins star to deteriorate.

I might also add that changing zope to use only one thread, as has been
mentioned as a possible workaround with pesky DA's, is not a realistic
option - on the contrary I need to bump up the thread count to around 10, to
be able to use more than 4 concurrent SQL queries.

I am at loss here - I don't even know where to begin looking for errors.
Maybe it's our app that is faulty (I know for a fact that around 40% of it
could be done in a cleaner way).

Oh, and the icing on the cake is that allmost all of my PythonScripts need
to be recompiled, all of a sudden. All I did was to pack the ZODB, and copy
it to production environment. The app is only about 6 megs in zie all in
all, so I wouldn't expect any serious ZODB corruption (as the bulk of the
data.fs is moslty app-logic, I would expect corruption to show itself real
fast, if it existed).

So, apart from killing myself, is there a way out of this? Or at least a
general direction in which to start looking for possible solutions?

I have to deploy this app 2 days ago, so I 'll try to setup as many
safegueards as I can. After that, in a sanndbox, I'll set my app up with as
few 3rd party extensions as possible, and see if it helps.

Any insight is greatly appreciated. I have saved coredumps if anyone would
care to dig thru 20-40 megs of data :-).

Sincerely,

/dario




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[Zope-dev] Zope 2.3.3 back-downgrade

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Hi!

If I use PythonScripts, are there any serious problems with downgrading a
Zope-2.4.3/2.4.4 to 2.3.3?

I cant remember if 2.3.3 had pythonscripts, but i recall that there was a
product that later became officially pythonscripts...

Are there any other incomaptibilities that anyone knows about?

Thanks.

/dario

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[Zope-dev] Zope-.2.4.4 to Zope 2.3.3 downgrade - is it to ask for trouble?

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Hi!

If I use PythonScripts, are there any serious problems with downgrading a
Zope-2.4.3/2.4.4 to 2.3.3?

I cant remember if 2.3.3 had pythonscripts, but i recall that there was a
product that later became officially pythonscripts...

Are there any other incomaptibilities that anyone knows about and I should
be aware of?

Thanks.

/dario

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[Zope-dev] Oops! Sorry!

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Apologies for the repeated messages, and for using a crappy mail client like
Outlook Express.

/dario - beating Outlook to death...


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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 2.6 planning - call for contributors!

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

I'd like to see ZSQL methods altered so that bind variables could be used in
SQL queries.

This would improve  SQL operations for at least Oracle, which is the one db
I know of that uses bind variables to speed it's querie-management.

This is filed as a bugreport in the collector previously but has been turned
down/put on hold until a newer version of zope.

What is the time schedule of Zope 2.6? I ask because I need to start using
2.5 before I suggest more improvements to zope :-)

/dario

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[Zope-dev] Cookie Crumbler and similar products (Re: Zope 2.6 project updated)

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

From: Matt Behrens [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Christian Theune wrote:

  Well I saw the cookie crumbler wish has been added to the list already,
  and (as i tested it out this moment) don't see what exactly needs to
  be done than adding it by default to the root userfolder.
  Well, probably some facelifting to the default login, thats not
  urgent in any way but if wished i would do that.

 Well, as far as least-intrusive, CC loses some points by not being
 compatible with some of the user folders that do their own cookie auth,
 although that's arguably not CC's fault.


Which makes me think of another point. I haven't used Zope 2.5.1 yet, but I
understand from some of the traffic on the mailinglists that some have
wanted to disable the session tracking/session management beause it
interferes with the solutions they allready use for session tracking.

And now there is a possible inclusion of another product (CC) that might
conflict with other products' cookie functionality.

Instead of locking up users with a particular implementation of a solution
to a general problem, why not present an API for a) session management and
b) cookie management, and then present default products that use these API's
to provide solutions? This way it will not be hard to replace both session
management and cookie management with other products.

Any one else think that this might be a worthwhile idea? If so, I can offer
time and effort and my limited knowledge of zope to make this possible.

/dario



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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 2.4.4b1 and Python 2.1.2 crash again

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

hm... i am now suffering from core dumps every 2-30 minutes...

anyone has gotten any further with tracking these down?

/dario

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[Zope-dev] Tracing transactions

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Hello!

I am wondering if it is possible to trace transactions.

I need it mostly to log what transacations failed, why they failed and what
was involved.

Any pointers in a general direction towards this are appreciated.

Thanks,

/dario

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[Zope-dev] Why are ZClasses bad?

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Hello!

I keep hearing people argue that ZClasse are bad, and I am curious as to why
they are.

I recall something about ZClasses and the catalog, but are there any other
badness with ZClasses?

/dario - curious

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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: stacks != easy to explain

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

From: Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  it is hard to read (Some of us design Zope
  sites TTW...)

 Un-learn that habit too. It's so nice having things like search  replace
and syntax
 highlighting afterall...



Now, this is an interesting statement and one I have heard often, and that I
throughly disagree on.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the TTW part is what is one of the
strenghts of Zope - I'd say that the fact that Zope uses TTW editing has had
a major impact on the kind of templating mechanism and infrastructure that
Zope, as opposed to much of the competition, offers out of the box.

I myself choose over iPlanet and Oracle Application Server, because Zope had
a lot of infrastructure IN PLACE that is needed for development, as opposed
to say, Oracle Application Server, where I had to write everything from
scratch, including lots of the admin interfaces.

As an example, the only real competitior that Zope had at the time I was
loking for web-app frameworks was Roxen Challanger, where Roxen gives away
the Roxen Webserver as GPL, but sells their TTW development environment for
about 5000 US$/developer. So, TTW has it's merits. Now, Roxen has FILESYSTEM
based development as well, which might be what we all want as well, but *not
instead*. Just because ChrisW has gone beyond TTW editing, does not make it
a Bad Thing(tm) in general :)

Going back to the ZPT is good/bad and DTML is ok/evil discussion,
something hit me a couple of weeks ago while chatting on #zope:

It seems that ZPT is mostly aimed at the Page Designer, whereas DTML is
mostly aimed at the Developer. Would this be a correct assesment of the
situation?

/dario




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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope/Python crashing

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

From: Ahsan Imam [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 I just downloaded python 2.1.3. Do I still have to edit the object.h
 file before I compile it.  
 

no, 2.1.3 includes bugfixes that specifically address those issues.

/dario




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[Zope-dev] Python, Zope and pymalloc

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

hello!

Is anyone using zope with a python that is not configured with
--without-pymalloc ?

I understand that there is still a conflict with ExtensionClass unless
python is cfg'd --without-pymalloc?

Thanks,

/dario
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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 2.4.3 and Python 2.2

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

- Original Message -
From: Andre Schubert [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Andreas Jung [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 8:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 2.4.3 and Python 2.2


 On Wed, 21 Aug 2002 07:52:30 +0200
 Andreas Jung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Use Python 1.5.2 with Zope 2.4.X and Python 2.1.3 for
  Zope 2.5.X. Any other combination is *not* supported.

 Why use Zope 2.4.X with Python 1.5.2 when i could find RPMs
 on zoep.org that requires Python 2.1.x ?
 And yes i know that this is not supported, but could there anything
 incompatible between Python 2.1 + Zope and Python 2.2 + Zope ?

 Greets,

Because Zope 2.4.3 depends on Python 1.5.2 and will break with newer pythons
(this has been experienced by others). Similarely if you use Zope 2.5.x, you
need to use Python 2.1.3, because that python contains bugfixes that
specifically affects Zope's stability.

Zope 2.5.x and 2.4.x will not work with python 2.2x either, due to
incompatibilities with python 2.2.

Also, if you are using python 2.1.3, you probably want to install it from
source, and configure it by passing the --without-pymalloc directive to the
configure script.

I cannot really remember why this is necessary, but I have some faint memory
of some incompatibility between the newer optimised memory management
thingie in python 2 and zope... or something like that :-)

hth

/dario
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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 2.4.3 and Python 2.2

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

I wrote:
 Because Zope 2.4.3 depends on Python 1.5.2 and will break with newer
pythons
 (this has been experienced by others).

argh! Ignore this part - zope 2.4 requires 2.1, as Andreas pointed out. But
if you use 2.1, be sure to use 2.1.3 or later since it fixes wierd stuff
that affect Zope's stability.

/dario


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[Zope-dev] Bump up the nr of ZOpe trhreads

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Hello!

Apart from the -t option to z2.py (that, afaik, limits me to only 7), what
other settings do I need to change to bump up the number of Zope threads to
around 20, both for ZServer and for ZODB Accesses? If i change these
settings, which one will allow me to have around 20 threads available to
access an external Oracle DB (the zserver or the ZODB)?

TIA,

/dario

- 
Dario Lopez-Kästen, [EMAIL PROTECTED]IT Systems  Services
System Developer/System Administrator Chalmers University of Tech.


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[Zope-dev] Re: Bump up the nr of ZOpe trhreads

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

- Original Message -
From: Chris McDonough [EMAIL PROTECTED]


 You'll also want to change the number of database connections.  If
 you use FileStorage, put the following in a custom_zodb.py file in
 your Zope software home or instance home (if you run an instance
 home setup):

 import ZODB.FileStorage
 import ZODB.DB

 filename = os.path.join(INSTANCE_HOME, 'var', 'Data.fs')
 Storage = ZODB.FileStorage.FileStorage(filename)
 DB = ZODB.DB(Storage, pool_size=25, cache_size=2000)

 The pool_size parameter is the number of database connections.
 The number of database connections should always be higher than the
 number of threads by a few (it doesn't make sense to have fewer
 database connections than threads).


Great, thanks :-)

But, am I still limited to max 7 zope threads? I wish to have around 20.
About 1/2 to 1 year ago I recall being told that with

python z2.py -t nrOfThreads

nrOfThreads could be set to whatever but Zope would not use more than 7 in
any case. Is this so still? Can it be changed? And is -t a parameter for
zserver or for the ZODB?

TIA

/dario

- 
Dario Lopez-Kästen, [EMAIL PROTECTED]IT Systems  Services
System Developer/System Administrator Chalmers University of Tech.




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[Zope-dev] Logging in as admin and impersonating another user - is it possible with Zopes sec policy?

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Hello!

I am wondering if it is possible to write a userfolder that does the
following:

For certain categories of users, for instance Teachers, while keeping their
current authorisation of Teachers, I need to let them impersonate a user
with lower authorisation than they currently have, say Students.

So a logged in Teacher could for instance examine what a particular student
sees in a Student portal (i.e. previewing it as would that particular
student)

Is this possible with Zopes current securtiy mechanisms?

/dario

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Dario Lopez-Kästen, [EMAIL PROTECTED]IT Systems  Services
System Developer/System Administrator Chalmers University of Tech.


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Re: [Zope-dev] Does zope still need a python compiled with --without-pymalloc ?

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Great, thanks to both of Dieter and Anthony!

Sincerely,

/dario

- Original Message - 
From: Anthony Baxter [EMAIL PROTECTED]


 
  Dieter Maurer wrote
  I am almost sure, you no longer need it.
  At least, we use Python 2.1.3 compiled without this option
  and do not see problems (attributable malloc).
 
 The (known) bugs that pymalloc (and cycle-gc) triggered are
 fixed in 2.1.3.
 
 Anthony


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Re: FHS, zopectl, #925, Re: [Zope-dev] 2.7 installation

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

- Original Message - 
From: Adrian van den Dries [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 May I respectfully ask why there is so much concern with such
 complicated setups?  Surely a production environment (which is what
 any Zope distribution should aim for) will standardise on a software
 version?

  I have this need - and what we do is *exactly* what you ask: we
standardise on a software version, on service level. It seems (my
impression) that most unix distros take the following view: one service, one
machine.

  We often find that we need to run several versions of both Zope and Apache
on the same machine at the same time; this might be because the current
production version of a service needs to have some packages for apache/zope
that conflict with newer versions of apache/zope, or simply because we do
not want to change the environment for production services that work.

  I have created a buch of shell scripts that allows me to handle several
versions of python and Zope on the same machine, as well as manage several
INSTANCE_HOMEs. Each INSTANCE_HOME can specify which python to use, which
zope to use and any extra stuff that is needed (like what Oracle envrionment
it wants to run with, etc).

I will have/have had to change these for both Zope 2.6 and for Zope 2.7 -
but my hope is that with 2.7 I can just throw my scripts away and use the
stock ones.

 If the concern is because *developers* want to run multiple Zope
 instances on multiple Zope versions with multiple Python versions,
 then I would suggest writing an *alternative* mechanism for developers
 to mangle their PYTHONPATHs and whatever.

I find that solutions for production environments, in the style of the one
oulined above, work very well for development environments as well.

My 2 öre worth...

/dario

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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: PythonLibraries Product

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

- Original Message - 
From: Evan Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Both of these solutions suffer from the two or more objects to
 accomplish one task management problem.  I usually combine the objects
 in a dedicated Folder, which is still a bit awkward, and doesn't solve
 everything.  One drawback is that the individual components are all
 published, despite the fact that I only intend one of them to be
 web-addressable.
...znip...
 On the other hand, Libraries don't support 'traverse_subpath', require
 an extra path step to address, and don't allow permission and proxy
 settings at individual function granularity.

hm... I have made similar observations, and not only with Scripts
(Python)... one idea I had, though I do not know if it is possible to
implement, is to create a new kind of container that only exposes/publishes
objects with a certain permission.

Is it possible w/o patching the way zpublisher works?

/dario
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[Zope-dev] Which ZODB to use for both Zope 2.5.1 and 2.6.1 on Python 2.1.3

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Hello,

the subject says it all. I have looked at the ZODB site, but I can't find
any conclusive info.

Thanks,

/dario

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Re: [Zope-dev] Which ZODB to use for both Zope 2.5.1 and 2.6.1 onPython 2.1.3

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Also I forgot to mention: this is for a kluster we are setting up, so I need
to know what ZEO is recommended for us with Zope 2.5.1 and 2.6.1 with Python
2.1.3.

Thanks

- Original Message -
From: Dario Lopez-Kästen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 11:42 AM
Subject: [Zope-dev] Which ZODB to use for both Zope 2.5.1 and 2.6.1 onPython
2.1.3


 Hello,

 the subject says it all. I have looked at the ZODB site, but I can't find
 any conclusive info.

 Thanks,

 /dario

 - 
 Dario Lopez-Kästen, IT Systems  Services Chalmers University of Tech.


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[Zope-dev] Risks with Zope 2.6.2 with Python 2.2.3

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Hello,

following Jeremy Hylton's advice, I would like to ask the developer
community:

what risks are associated with Zope 2.6.2 with Pythoin 2.2.3?

Thank you,

/dario

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[Zope-dev] Re: Which version of ZODB and ZEO to use for Zope?

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Hi again, and thanks for all the replies.

Given that we are going to use this to deploy to production within the
coming week, we will stick with Python 2.1.3, Zope 2.6.2 and use ZODB 3.1.4.

We will wait for Zope 2.7 to stabilise or reach a 2.7.x version before we
switch tp Python 2.3.x and ZODB 3.2.

Thank you again for all the responses.

/dario

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[Zope-dev] Controlling start en finish of a request

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Hello,

I need help with ideas on how to solve my little problem here.

I need to sort of be more in control of a request, meaning that at the
beggining of a request I want to set some variables and call some python
scripts and at the end of a request I want to set soem other variables and
call some other python scripts

How would I be able to accomplish that? We sort of have semi-solved it by
setting and calling from standard_html_header and standard_html_footer, but
that is not enough.

IS there a way of achieving what I want to do?

I was told on IRC to do look into TransactionManager but I don't know how to
make this availabel Zope-wide.

Any ideas are appreciated.

Thanks,

/dario

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Re: [Zope-dev] java + zope

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Paul Winkler wrote:
 
You can also go the other way - make calls to Zope from java via http.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/pstream/
hm... no one has menetioned JPE yet, I see. JPE = the Java Python 
Extension. http://jpe.sourceforge.net/

I think chrisw did some work one ot two years ago with JPE and Lucene.

Looking at the cvs for jpe.sourceforge.net I see that there has not been 
much activity the last 19-20 months, though...

/dario
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[Zope-dev] About Zope Security (was: Zope - SecurityFocus Newsletter #232)

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Chris Withers wrote:

Hi,

Can anyone shed light on all of these? I know about some of them, but 
this is quite a disturbingly long list...
What is the current status of these issues? I am running a rather larges 
site with sensitive personal data.

The decision to use Python/Zope instead of Java/uPortal is very much 
debated by people whith power, and I am trying to protect the investment 
made in Zope.

I know, you get what you pay for etc, but I am struggling to keep Zope 
instead of having to  migrate to Java, and it is hard enouigh as it is. 
All this is politics, perception and logistics and has nothing to do 
with technical advantage.

Unfortunately I cannot help very much in resolving these issues since I 
am not knowledgeable enough to be able to help, but I would like to 
follow the status of these issues, under NDA if need be.

It is also a matter of taking steps to protect personal data.

Sincerely,

/dario

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Re: [Zope-dev] About Zope Security

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Casey Duncan wrote:

They are fixed in the latest releases of Zope 2.6 and 2.7
...snip good info...

Download a new version of Zope and test it out with a copy of your
application. Let us know if anything breaks.
Thank you.

Sincerely,

/dario - off to test new zope-versions

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Re: [Zope-dev] How to make Zope fail nicely under high load?

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

Bjorn Stabell wrote:
It appears the way to control it would for Apache or Zope to return 503
Service Unavailable when the load is too high, but we haven't found a
good way to do this; Zope doesn't appear to have any mechanism for it,
and Apache's ProxyPass doesn't either.  I guess load balancers would,
but that's a bit overkill since we run the server on one machine.
Hi, I'm very interested in your resutsl. We have exaclty the same 
situation, though we have not analysed it further - the only thing that 
saves us is to restart zope.

re: load balancing: there is Pound - http://www.apsis.ch/pound/ - that 
might serve as a loadbalancer between processes in a single machine.

Maybe that will help a bit, though it doesn't really resolve the issue 
with zope choking; if it works, it will merely circumvent it.

hth,

/dario

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