Re: How to live forever

> On 5 Apr 2018, at 21:52, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 4/5/2018 1:55 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> On 3 Apr 2018, at 19:40, Brent Meeker wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 4/3/2018 12:37 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > On 3 Apr 2018, at 07:22, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 3/3

Re: How to live forever

On 4/5/2018 1:55 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 3 Apr 2018, at 19:40, Brent Meeker wrote: On 4/3/2018 12:37 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 3 Apr 2018, at 07:22, Brent Meeker wrote: On 3/31/2018 1:30 AM, Russell Standish wrote: On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 05:14:21PM +0100, Bruno Marchal wrote:

Re: How to live forever

On 1 April 2018 at 07:56, Telmo Menezes wrote: > Hey Mindey, > > On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 11:12 PM, Mindey I. wrote: > > Why not to just define yourself, and then try to re-run yourself? If you > > have a mathematical definition of your own self, you are already close to > > living forever as a r

Re: How to live forever

Thanks Quentin! On 5 April 2018 at 15:03, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > Le jeu. 5 avr. 2018 13:42, Telmo Menezes a écrit : >> >> On 4 April 2018 at 10:21, Russell Standish wrote: >> > On Tue, Apr 03, 2018 at 08:25:59AM +0200, Telmo Menezes wrote: >> >> Hi Russell, >> >> >> >> On Sat, Mar 31, 201

Re: How to live forever

Le jeu. 5 avr. 2018 13:42, Telmo Menezes a écrit : > On 4 April 2018 at 10:21, Russell Standish wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 03, 2018 at 08:25:59AM +0200, Telmo Menezes wrote: > >> Hi Russell, > >> > >> On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 10:30 AM, Russell Standish > >> wrote: > >> > On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 05:1

Re: How to live forever

> If that is true, the dissociative state can genuinely be identified with the > death state, and, as far as we get there (with salvia for example), the > experience cannot be memorised at all. In fact, it entails that we truly die, > and the one who come back is truly “someone else”, and this i

Re: How to live forever

On 4 April 2018 at 10:21, Russell Standish wrote: > On Tue, Apr 03, 2018 at 08:25:59AM +0200, Telmo Menezes wrote: >> Hi Russell, >> >> On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 10:30 AM, Russell Standish >> wrote: >> > On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 05:14:21PM +0100, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> >> Now, is a jellyfish

Re: How to live forever

> On 4 Apr 2018, at 22:57, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 4/2/2018 10:53 AM, smitra wrote: >> On 02-04-2018 17:27, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 1 Apr 2018, at 00:29, Lawrence Crowell wrote: On Saturday, March 31, 2018 at 2:32:06 PM UTC-6, telmo_menezes wrote: >

Re: How to live forever

> On 2 Apr 2018, at 19:53, smitra wrote: > > On 02-04-2018 17:27, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> On 1 Apr 2018, at 00:29, Lawrence Crowell >>> wrote: >>> On Saturday, March 31, 2018 at 2:32:06 PM UTC-6, telmo_menezes >>> wrote: On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 10:17 PM, Lawrence Crowell wrote:

Re: How to live forever

> On 4 Apr 2018, at 10:21, Russell Standish wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 03, 2018 at 08:25:59AM +0200, Telmo Menezes wrote: >> Hi Russell, >> >> On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 10:30 AM, Russell Standish >> wrote: >>> On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 05:14:21PM +0100, Bruno Marchal wrote: Now, is a jellyf

Re: How to live forever

> On 3 Apr 2018, at 19:43, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 4/3/2018 12:47 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> On 31 Mar 2018, at 10:30, Russell Standish wrote: >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 05:14:21PM +0100, Bruno Marchal wrote: Now, is a jellyfish conscious? I bet they are, but no

Re: How to live forever

> On 3 Apr 2018, at 19:40, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 4/3/2018 12:37 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> On 3 Apr 2018, at 07:22, Brent Meeker wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 3/31/2018 1:30 AM, Russell Standish wrote: On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 05:14:21PM +0100, Bruno Marchal wrote: > Now, is

Re: How to live forever

> On 3 Apr 2018, at 10:37, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 9:33 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 3 Apr 2018, at 08:25, Telmo Menezes wrote: >>> >>> Hi Russell, >>> >>> On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 10:30 AM, Russell Standish >>> wrote: On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 05:14:21PM +0

Re: How to live forever

On Thu, 5 Apr 2018 at 2:58 am, smitra wrote: > On 02-04-2018 17:27, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 1 Apr 2018, at 00:29, Lawrence Crowell > >> wrote: > >> > >> On Saturday, March 31, 2018 at 2:32:06 PM UTC-6, telmo_menezes > >> wrote: > >> > >>> On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 10:17 PM, Lawrence Crowell >

Re: How to live forever

On 4/2/2018 10:53 AM, smitra wrote: On 02-04-2018 17:27, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 1 Apr 2018, at 00:29, Lawrence Crowell wrote: On Saturday, March 31, 2018 at 2:32:06 PM UTC-6, telmo_menezes wrote: On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 10:17 PM, Lawrence Crowell wrote: You would have to replicate then

Re: How to live forever

On 02-04-2018 17:27, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 1 Apr 2018, at 00:29, Lawrence Crowell wrote: On Saturday, March 31, 2018 at 2:32:06 PM UTC-6, telmo_menezes wrote: On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 10:17 PM, Lawrence Crowell wrote: You would have to replicate then not only the dynamics of neurons, but

Re: How to live forever

On Tue, Apr 03, 2018 at 08:25:59AM +0200, Telmo Menezes wrote: > Hi Russell, > > On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 10:30 AM, Russell Standish > wrote: > > On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 05:14:21PM +0100, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> > >> Now, is a jellyfish conscious? > >> > >> I bet they are, but not far away from

Re: How to live forever

On Mon, Apr 02, 2018 at 10:22:57PM -0700, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 3/31/2018 1:30 AM, Russell Standish wrote: > > On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 05:14:21PM +0100, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > Now, is a jellyfish conscious? > > > > > > I bet they are, but not far away from the dissociative and constan

Re: How to live forever

On 4/3/2018 12:47 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 31 Mar 2018, at 10:30, Russell Standish wrote: On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 05:14:21PM +0100, Bruno Marchal wrote: Now, is a jellyfish conscious? I bet they are, but not far away from the dissociative and constant arithmetical consciousness (of the

Re: How to live forever

On 4/3/2018 12:37 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 3 Apr 2018, at 07:22, Brent Meeker wrote: On 3/31/2018 1:30 AM, Russell Standish wrote: On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 05:14:21PM +0100, Bruno Marchal wrote: Now, is a jellyfish conscious? I bet they are, but not far away from the dissociative and c

Re: How to live forever

On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 9:33 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 3 Apr 2018, at 08:25, Telmo Menezes wrote: >> >> Hi Russell, >> >> On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 10:30 AM, Russell Standish >> wrote: >>> On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 05:14:21PM +0100, Bruno Marchal wrote: Now, is a jellyfish conscious?

Re: How to live forever

> On 31 Mar 2018, at 10:57, Russell Standish wrote: > > On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 11:01:22AM +0200, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 21 Mar 2018, at 01:35, John Clark wrote: >>> >>> On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 7:27 PM, Bruce Kellett >> > wrote: >>> >>> ​>​You don't

Re: How to live forever

> On 31 Mar 2018, at 10:30, Russell Standish wrote: > > On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 05:14:21PM +0100, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> Now, is a jellyfish conscious? >> >> I bet they are, but not far away from the dissociative and constant >> arithmetical consciousness (of the universal machines). >

Re: How to live forever

> On 3 Apr 2018, at 07:22, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 3/31/2018 1:30 AM, Russell Standish wrote: >> On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 05:14:21PM +0100, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> Now, is a jellyfish conscious? >>> >>> I bet they are, but not far away from the dissociative and constant >>> arithmetic

Re: How to live forever

> On 3 Apr 2018, at 08:25, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > Hi Russell, > > On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 10:30 AM, Russell Standish > wrote: >> On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 05:14:21PM +0100, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> >>> Now, is a jellyfish conscious? >>> >>> I bet they are, but not far away from the dissociat

Re: How to live forever

Hi Russell, On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 10:30 AM, Russell Standish wrote: > On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 05:14:21PM +0100, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> Now, is a jellyfish conscious? >> >> I bet they are, but not far away from the dissociative and constant >> arithmetical consciousness (of the universal ma

Re: How to live forever

On 3/31/2018 1:30 AM, Russell Standish wrote: On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 05:14:21PM +0100, Bruno Marchal wrote: Now, is a jellyfish conscious? I bet they are, but not far away from the dissociative and constant arithmetical consciousness (of the universal machines). As I'm sure you're aware, I

Re: How to live forever

On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 05:14:21PM +0100, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > Now, is a jellyfish conscious? > > I bet they are, but not far away from the dissociative and constant > arithmetical consciousness (of the universal machines). As I'm sure you're aware, I disagree with this. Jellyfish appear t

Re: How to live forever

On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 11:01:22AM +0200, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 21 Mar 2018, at 01:35, John Clark wrote: > > > > On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 7:27 PM, Bruce Kellett > > wrote: > > > > ​>​You don't need an instrument that can give a clean yes/no answer to t

Re: How to live forever

> On 1 Apr 2018, at 00:29, Lawrence Crowell > wrote: > > On Saturday, March 31, 2018 at 2:32:06 PM UTC-6, telmo_menezes wrote: > On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 10:17 PM, Lawrence Crowell > > wrote: > > You would have to replicate then not only the dynamics of neurons, but > > every > > biomolecule

Re: How to live forever

> On 31 Mar 2018, at 23:12, Mindey I. wrote: > > Why not to just define yourself, and then try to re-run yourself? If you have > a mathematical definition of your own self, you are already close to living > forever as a running process based on that definition. You cannot. It is a theorem in

Re: How to live forever

On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 2:42 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: ​> *​* > *The problem I was alluding to was how to interface with existing > biological systems. You could make a camera that exceeds the performance of > the human eye, but that doesn’t mean you can use it to replace damaged > eyes. It w

Re: How to live forever

On Sun, 1 Apr 2018 at 9:15 pm, John Clark wrote: > On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 7:43 AM, Stathis Papaioannou > wrote: > > >> It's not the wind its diffusion that send the signal on its way, which >>> means exactly where the signal is sent is NOT critical and the time it >>> takes to transmit it can't

Re: How to live forever

On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 7:43 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: >> It's not the wind its diffusion that send the signal on its way, which >> means exactly where the signal is sent is NOT critical and the time it >> takes to transmit it can't be critical either. So you think technology will >> find tha

Re: How to live forever

On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 6:42 AM, Lawrence Crowell < goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com> wrote: > *> It may just be a bit like saying because an airplane can fly that it is > equivalent to a bird.* I think the nouns "airplane" and "bird" are not equivalent, however the same adjective "flying" can be

Re: How to live forever

On Sun, 1 Apr 2018 at 8:26 am, John Clark wrote: > On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 5:50 PM, Stathis Papaioannou > wrote: > > *​> ​The problem is the biological neurones only understand smoke signals. >> * > > > Not so, we already understand that some neurotransmitters send smoke > signals that excite ne

Re: How to live forever

It may just be a bit like saying because an airplane can fly that it is equivalent to a bird. LC On Saturday, March 31, 2018 at 6:52:43 PM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: > > On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 6:29 PM, Lawrence Crowell < > goldenfield...@gmail.com > wrote: > > ​ >> > Take LSD or psilocybin mushr

Re: How to live forever

On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 12:29 AM, Lawrence Crowell wrote: > On Saturday, March 31, 2018 at 2:32:06 PM UTC-6, telmo_menezes wrote: >> >> On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 10:17 PM, Lawrence Crowell >> wrote: >> > You would have to replicate then not only the dynamics of neurons, but >> > every >> > biomolecu

Re: How to live forever

Hey Mindey, On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 11:12 PM, Mindey I. wrote: > Why not to just define yourself, and then try to re-run yourself? If you > have a mathematical definition of your own self, you are already close to > living forever as a running process based on that definition. Easier said than d

Re: How to live forever

On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 6:29 PM, Lawrence Crowell < goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com> wrote: ​ > > Take LSD or psilocybin mushrooms and what enters the brain are chemical > compounds that interact with neural ligand gates. The effect is a change in > the perception of consciousness. > LSD is not

Re: How to live forever

On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 5:50 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: *​> ​The problem is the biological neurones only understand smoke signals. * Not so, we already understand that some neurotransmitters send smoke signals that excite neurons while others send a inhibitory signal. ​> ​ > Not only that,

Re: How to live forever

On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 4:17 PM, Lawrence Crowell < goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com> wrote: ​> ​ > *You would have to replicate then not only the dynamics of neurons, but > every biomolecule in the neurons,* Why? Most of the things neurons do have nothing to do with signal processing, they jus

Re: How to live forever

On 3/31/2018 3:29 PM, Lawrence Crowell wrote: On Saturday, March 31, 2018 at 2:32:06 PM UTC-6, telmo_menezes wrote: On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 10:17 PM, Lawrence Crowell > wrote: > You would have to replicate then not only the dynamics of neurons, but every > biomolecule in th

Re: How to live forever

On Saturday, March 31, 2018 at 2:32:06 PM UTC-6, telmo_menezes wrote: > > On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 10:17 PM, Lawrence Crowell > > wrote: > > You would have to replicate then not only the dynamics of neurons, but > every > > biomolecule in the neurons, and don't forget about the oligoastrocytes

Re: How to live forever

On Sun, 1 Apr 2018 at 2:31 am, John Clark wrote: > On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 8:24 PM, Lawrence Crowell < > goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > *Yes, and if you replace the entire brain with technology the peg leg >> is expanded into an entire Pinocchio. Would the really be conscious? It

Re: How to live forever

Why not to just define yourself, and then try to re-run yourself? If you have a mathematical definition of your own self, you are already close to living forever as a running process based on that definition. Personally, when I try to define myself, I bump into memories of strong sense of curiosit

Re: How to live forever

On 3/31/2018 1:32 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 10:17 PM, Lawrence Crowell wrote: You would have to replicate then not only the dynamics of neurons, but every biomolecule in the neurons, and don't forget about the oligoastrocytes and other glial cells. Many enzymes for inst

Re: How to live forever

On the other hand, somebody could just create a smartass email bot and as far as we know it would be a perfect upload of John Clark. :-) Brent On 3/31/2018 1:17 PM, Lawrence Crowell wrote: You would have to replicate then not only the dynamics of neurons, but every biomolecule in the neurons,

Re: How to live forever

On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 10:17 PM, Lawrence Crowell wrote: > You would have to replicate then not only the dynamics of neurons, but every > biomolecule in the neurons, and don't forget about the oligoastrocytes and > other glial cells. Many enzymes for instance to multi-state systems, say in > a si

Re: How to live forever

You would have to replicate then not only the dynamics of neurons, but every biomolecule in the neurons, and don't forget about the oligoastrocytes and other glial cells. Many enzymes for instance to multi-state systems, say in a simple case where a single amino acid residue of phosphorylated o

Re: How to live forever

On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 8:24 PM, Lawrence Crowell < goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com> wrote: > *Yes, and if you replace the entire brain with technology the peg leg is > expanded into an entire Pinocchio. Would the really be conscious? It is the > case as well that so much of our mental processing

Re: How to live forever

On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 7:30 PM, Brent Meeker wrote: > > I think it very likely that a silicon neuron could work. But it would > work like a peg leg works. You could still get around, but it wouldn't > grow or self heal or tell you when it was hot or cold. My first car was a piece of junk, a

Re: How to live forever

On Friday, March 30, 2018 at 3:36:19 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 27 Mar 2018, at 23:55, Lawrence Crowell > wrote: > > On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 11:06:51 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 27 Mar 2018, at 00:57, Lawrence Crowell >> wrote: >> >> On Monday, March 26, 2018

Re: How to live forever

> On 27 Mar 2018, at 23:55, Lawrence Crowell > wrote: > > On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 11:06:51 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 27 Mar 2018, at 00:57, Lawrence Crowell > > wrote: >> >> On Monday, March 26, 2018 at 11:01:27 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 25 Mar 2018, at 17:3

Re: How to live forever

> On 27 Mar 2018, at 21:58, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 3/27/2018 9:57 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> There is non zombies with mechanism, not because we can derive consciousness >> from body-behaviour, but because we just cannot do that, as their are no >> really “body-behavior”, as there a

Re: How to live forever

On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 at 10:30 am, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 3/27/2018 3:59 PM, Lawrence Crowell wrote: > > On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 3:56:18 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 3/27/2018 2:26 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: >> >> >> On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 at 7:27 am, Brent Meeker wrote: >> >

Re: How to live forever

On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 at 9:59 am, Lawrence Crowell < goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 3:56:18 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > >> >> >> On 3/27/2018 2:26 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: >> > On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 at 7:27 am, Brent Meeker wrote: >> >> >>> >>> On 3/27/201

Re: How to live forever

On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 5:30:37 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > > On 3/27/2018 3:59 PM, Lawrence Crowell wrote: > > On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 3:56:18 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 3/27/2018 2:26 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: >> >> >> On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 at 7:27 am, Brent Meeker wr

Re: How to live forever

On 3/27/2018 3:59 PM, Lawrence Crowell wrote: On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 3:56:18 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: On 3/27/2018 2:26 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 at 7:27 am, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 3/27/2018 10:19 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: O

Re: How to live forever

On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 3:56:18 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > > On 3/27/2018 2:26 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > > On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 at 7:27 am, Brent Meeker > wrote: > >> >> >> On 3/27/2018 10:19 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: >> >> >> On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 at 1:50 am, Lawrence Crowell <

Re: How to live forever

On 3/27/2018 2:26 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 at 7:27 am, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 3/27/2018 10:19 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 at 1:50 am, Lawrence Crowell mailto:goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com>> wro

Re: How to live forever

On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 11:06:51 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 27 Mar 2018, at 00:57, Lawrence Crowell > wrote: > > On Monday, March 26, 2018 at 11:01:27 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 25 Mar 2018, at 17:34, Lawrence Crowell >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sunday, March 25,

Re: How to live forever

On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 at 7:27 am, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 3/27/2018 10:19 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > > On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 at 1:50 am, Lawrence Crowell < > goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 7:21:00 AM UTC-5, stathisp wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On 27

Re: How to live forever

On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 at 6:13 am, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 3/27/2018 5:20 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > > > On 27 March 2018 at 09:35, Brent Meeker wrote: > >> >> >> On 3/26/2018 3:19 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: >> >> >> If you are not and never can be aware of it then in what sense is

Re: How to live forever

On 3/27/2018 10:19 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 at 1:50 am, Lawrence Crowell > wrote: On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 7:21:00 AM UTC-5, stathisp wrote: On 27 March 2018 at 09:35, Brent Meeker wrote:

Re: How to live forever

On 3/27/2018 9:57 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: There is non zombies with mechanism, not because we can derive consciousness from body-behaviour, but because we just cannot do that, as their are no really “body-behavior”, as there are no bodies: the intelligence and the consciousness is a collect

Re: How to live forever

On 3/27/2018 5:20 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 27 March 2018 at 09:35, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 3/26/2018 3:19 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: If you are not and never can be aware of it then in what sense is it consciousness? Depends o

Re: How to live forever

On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 10:50 AM, Lawrence Crowell < goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com> wrote: *>This argument ignores scaling. With any network you can replace or change > nodes and connections on a small scale and the system remains largely > unchanged. At a certain critical number of such change

Re: How to live forever

On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 at 1:50 am, Lawrence Crowell < goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 7:21:00 AM UTC-5, stathisp wrote: > >> >> >> On 27 March 2018 at 09:35, Brent Meeker wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On 3/26/2018 3:19 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: >>> >>> >>> If yo

Re: How to live forever

> On 27 Mar 2018, at 00:57, Lawrence Crowell > wrote: > > On Monday, March 26, 2018 at 11:01:27 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 25 Mar 2018, at 17:34, Lawrence Crowell > > wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sunday, March 25, 2018 at 5:01:59 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> Yes, and if someo

Re: How to live forever

> On 26 Mar 2018, at 22:09, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 3/26/2018 10:10 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> You retreat into what is possible. My question is much more directly >>> pragmatic. If I actually made a silicon based replacement for your brain >>> that had the same input/output would

Re: How to live forever

On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 7:21:00 AM UTC-5, stathisp wrote: > > > > On 27 March 2018 at 09:35, Brent Meeker > > wrote: > >> >> >> On 3/26/2018 3:19 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: >> >> >> If you are not and never can be aware of it then in what sense is it >> consciousness? >> >> >> Depends o

Re: How to live forever

On 27 March 2018 at 09:35, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 3/26/2018 3:19 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > > If you are not and never can be aware of it then in what sense is it > consciousness? > > > Depends on what you mean by "it". I can be aware of my consciousness, > without being aware that

Re: How to live forever

On Monday, March 26, 2018 at 11:01:27 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 25 Mar 2018, at 17:34, Lawrence Crowell > wrote: > > > > On Sunday, March 25, 2018 at 5:01:59 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> Yes, and if someone argue that consciousness is not maintained whatever >> the substi

Re: How to live forever

On 3/26/2018 3:19 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On Tue, 27 Mar 2018 at 6:40 am, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 3/26/2018 8:24 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 26 March 2018 at 15:20, Brent Meeker mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: On 3/25/2018

Re: How to live forever

On Tue, 27 Mar 2018 at 6:40 am, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 3/26/2018 8:24 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > On 26 March 2018 at 15:20, Brent Meeker wrote: > >> >> >> On 3/25/2018 7:14 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: >> >> >> >> On 26 March 2018 at 04:57, Brent Meeker wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On

Re: How to live forever

On 3/26/2018 10:10 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: You retreat into what is possible.  My question is much more directly pragmatic.  If I actually made a silicon based replacement for your brain that had the same input/output would you consciousness be different if the replacement processed the info

Re: How to live forever

On 3/26/2018 8:24 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 26 March 2018 at 15:20, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 3/25/2018 7:14 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 26 March 2018 at 04:57, Brent Meeker mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: On 3/25/2018 2:15

Re: How to live forever

> On 25 Mar 2018, at 19:57, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 3/25/2018 2:15 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 21 Mar 2018, at 22:56, Brent Meeker >> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 3/21/2018 2:27 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On Thu, 22 Mar 2018 at 5:45

Re: How to live forever

> On 25 Mar 2018, at 18:02, John Clark wrote: > > > > On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 5:01 AM, Bruno Marchal > wrote: > > ​>> ​if it was all based on the observation of behavior then what you'd end > up with is a scientific theory about intelligence not consciousness. > >

Re: How to live forever

> On 25 Mar 2018, at 17:34, Lawrence Crowell > wrote: > > > > On Sunday, March 25, 2018 at 5:01:59 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> Yes, and if someone argue that consciousness is not maintained whatever the >> substitution level is, it is up to them to explain what in the >> brain+loca

Re: How to live forever

> On 25 Mar 2018, at 11:41, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > > > On 25 March 2018 at 20:18, Bruno Marchal > wrote: > >> On 21 Mar 2018, at 23:49, Stathis Papaioannou > > wrote: >> >> >> On Thu, 22 Mar 2018 at 9:02 am, Bruce Kellett >

Re: How to live forever

On 26 March 2018 at 15:20, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 3/25/2018 7:14 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > > > On 26 March 2018 at 04:57, Brent Meeker wrote: > >> >> >> On 3/25/2018 2:15 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 21 Mar 2018, at 22:56, Brent Meeker wrote: >> >> >> >> On 3/21/2018 2:27

Re: How to live forever

On 3/25/2018 7:14 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 26 March 2018 at 04:57, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 3/25/2018 2:15 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 21 Mar 2018, at 22:56, Brent Meeker mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: On 3/21/2018 2:27 PM, Sta

Re: How to live forever

On 26 March 2018 at 04:57, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 3/25/2018 2:15 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 21 Mar 2018, at 22:56, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 3/21/2018 2:27 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > > On Thu, 22 Mar 2018 at 5:45 am, Brent Meeker wrote: > >> >> >> On 3/20/2018 11:29 PM

Re: How to live forever

On 3/25/2018 2:15 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 21 Mar 2018, at 22:56, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 3/21/2018 2:27 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On Thu, 22 Mar 2018 at 5:45 am, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 3/20/2018 11:29 PM, Stath

Re: How to live forever

On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 5:01 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: ​>> ​ >> if it was all based on the observation of behavior then what you'd end up >> with is a scientific theory about intelligence not consciousness. > > > *​> ​That is right. But if you agree that consciousness is a form of > non-provable b

Re: How to live forever

On Sunday, March 25, 2018 at 5:01:59 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > Yes, and if someone argue that consciousness is not maintained whatever > the substitution level is, it is up to them to explain what in the > brain+local-evirnoment is not Turing emulable. I see only the “wave packet >

Re: How to live forever

> On 23 Mar 2018, at 02:46, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > > On Fri, 23 Mar 2018 at 11:32 am, Bruce Kellett > wrote: > From: Stathis Papaioannou mailto:stath...@gmail.com>> >> >> On Thu, 22 Mar 2018 at 9:02 am, Bruce Kellett >

Re: How to live forever

On 25 March 2018 at 20:18, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 21 Mar 2018, at 23:49, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > > On Thu, 22 Mar 2018 at 9:02 am, Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> From: Stathis Papaioannou >> >> >> On Wed, 21 Mar 2018 at 10:56 am, Bruce Kellett >> wrote: >> >>> From: Stathis Papaioann

Re: How to live forever

> On 21 Mar 2018, at 23:49, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > > On Thu, 22 Mar 2018 at 9:02 am, Bruce Kellett > wrote: > From: Stathis Papaioannou mailto:stath...@gmail.com>> >> >> On Wed, 21 Mar 2018 at 10:56 am, Bruce Kellett >

Re: How to live forever

> On 21 Mar 2018, at 22:56, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 3/21/2018 2:27 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: >> >> On Thu, 22 Mar 2018 at 5:45 am, Brent Meeker > > wrote: >> >> >> On 3/20/2018 11:29 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: >>> On Wed, 21 Mar 2018 at 9:03 am,

Re: How to live forever

> On 21 Mar 2018, at 07:29, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > On Wed, 21 Mar 2018 at 9:03 am, Brent Meeker > wrote: > > > On 3/20/2018 1:14 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: >> >> On Wed, 21 Mar 2018 at 6:34 am, Brent Meeker > > wrote: >>

Re: How to live forever

> On 21 Mar 2018, at 01:35, John Clark wrote: > > On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 7:27 PM, Bruce Kellett > wrote: > > ​>​You don't need an instrument that can give a clean yes/no answer to the > presence of consciousness to develop scientific theories about consciou

Re: How to live forever

On Fri, 23 Mar 2018 at 11:32 am, Bruce Kellett wrote: > From: Stathis Papaioannou > > > On Thu, 22 Mar 2018 at 9:02 am, Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> From: Stathis Papaioannou < stath...@gmail.com> >> >> >> On Wed, 21 Mar 2018 at 10:56 am, Bruce Kellett < >> bhkell...@optusnet.com.au> wrote: >> >

Re: How to live forever

From: *Stathis Papaioannou* mailto:stath...@gmail.com>> On Thu, 22 Mar 2018 at 9:02 am, Bruce Kellett mailto:bhkell...@optusnet.com.au>> wrote: From: *Stathis Papaioannou* mailto:stath...@gmail.com>> On Wed, 21 Mar 2018 at 10:56 am, Bruce Kellett mailto:bhkell...@optusnet.com.au

Re: How to live forever

> On 22 Mar 2018, at 02:34, Kim Jones wrote: > > What if we already live forever? Why in fact, do people think that just > because we die that we go away or cease to exist? What if Nature has already > solved the problem? Why would you spend a motza to ensure you lived forever > in the same b

Re: How to live forever

> On 21 Mar 2018, at 20:39, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 3/21/2018 8:40 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 20 Mar 2018, at 00:56, Brent Meeker >> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 3/19/2018 2:19 PM, John Clark wrote: On Sun, Mar 18, 2018 at 10:03 PM, Brent Mee

Re: How to live forever

> On 21 Mar 2018, at 00:27, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > From: Telmo Menezes mailto:te...@telmomenezes.com>> >> >> On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 1:03 AM, Bruce Kellett >> mailto:bhkell...@optusnet.com.au>> wrote: >> >> > Now it may be that you want to reject Stathis's claim, and insist that >> > conscio

Re: How to live forever

> On 20 Mar 2018, at 20:34, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 3/20/2018 3:58 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: >>> The interesting thing is that you can draw conclusions about consciousness >>> without being able to define it or detect it. >> I agree. >> >>> The claim is that IF an entity >>> is consciou

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