subject:"death"

If, is of course central to the duty of the grand jury. 

-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Cc: meekerbr...@gmail.com ; henrik.ohrst...@gmail.com 

Sent: Mon, Dec 26, 2022 11:03 am
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

On Mon, Dec 26, 2022 at 10:13 AM spudboy100 via Everything List 
 wrote:

> There are also flat earthers we need to be wary of. Those people who want 
> out, if they have reason to be vaccine averse, need to be listened to.

It should be noted there is a very important "if" in that statement and, 
although I hate to break it to you, you have not made a new original idea, 
there have been other people who have also believed that IF new evidence 
becomes available then one's beliefs and course of action may need to be 
changed, other people such as every scientist who has ever lived. And there is 
a reason that Republicans suffer from a significantly higher death rate from 
Covid than Democrats, and it is the same reason that I referred to the 
Republican party as a death cult.   
John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
uc4

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Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-26 Thread John Clark

On Mon, Dec 26, 2022 at 10:13 AM spudboy100 via Everything List <
everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote:

*> There are also flat earthers we need to be wary of. Those people who
> want out, if they have reason to be vaccine averse, need to be listened to.*
>

It should be noted there is a very important "if" in that statement and,
although I hate to break it to you, you have not made a new original idea,
there have been other people who have also believed that *IF* new evidence
becomes available *then* one's beliefs and course of action may need to be
changed, other people such as every scientist who has ever lived. And there
is a reason that Republicans suffer from a significantly higher death rate
from Covid than Democrats, and it is the same reason that I referred to the
Republican party as a death cult.

John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis
<https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>
uc4

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Re: Death, science, and politics

There are also flat earthers we need to be wary of. Those people who want out, 
if they have reason to be vaccine averse, need to be listened to. If you are 
correct, they will simply die out. I recommend developing tests IF it looks 
like one can die from the Covid jabs, IF, there is evidence that otherwise, 
healthy, young, people. are, indeed suffering and dying from the jab?? 
If there is evidence and it is deeply buried, we may not know for decades? 
Hence, this is why the courts are necessary. 

-Original Message-
From: Brent Meeker 
To: spudboy...@aol.com; henrik.ohrst...@gmail.com 
Cc: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Mon, Dec 26, 2022 12:18 am
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

On 12/25/2022 9:04 AM, spudboy...@aol.com wrote:
> How am I improving things? I support DeSantis's idea.
> Life is dangerous, and before seatbelts were installed more people died.
>
> If the vaccine is perilous to a tiny few, you are still good with 
> forcing these to take the vax?
Not if we know who they are.

> You don't wish to give them the chance to opt out?
But they don't know who they are.  The people who want to opt out are 
ignorant people influenced by skeptics like you who "just want ALL the 
facts" as though that is reasonable goal, instead of trolling.

Brent

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Re: Death, science, and politics

As long as public health and politicians are not mandating vaccinations, as in 
every single person, we should continue to vaccinate. If there is data not 
known to the public about any potential dangers inherent in these vaccines, and 
it comes to light because of an investigation, or stirs researchers to inquire 
more deeply, it is all to the good. I never petitioned here or anywhere else 
and an anti-vaxer. I am also good with increased treatments for Covid. Paxlovid 
is (Pfizer) one of these developments. 

-Original Message-
From: Brent Meeker 
To: spudboy...@aol.com; henrik.ohrst...@gmail.com 
Cc: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Mon, Dec 26, 2022 12:18 am
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics



On 12/25/2022 9:04 AM, spudboy...@aol.com wrote:
> How am I improving things? I support DeSantis's idea.
> Life is dangerous, and before seatbelts were installed more people died.
>
> If the vaccine is perilous to a tiny few, you are still good with 
> forcing these to take the vax?
Not if we know who they are.

> You don't wish to give them the chance to opt out?
But they don't know who they are.  The people who want to opt out are 
ignorant people influenced by skeptics like you who "just want ALL the 
facts" as though that is reasonable goal, instead of trolling.

Brent

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Re: Death, science, and politics

One doesn't need a master's degree to inquire, tho that'd be nice!  Anything in 
the life sciences, infectious disease. Just because Joey proposes assisting the 
Ukrainians against Putin, doesn't make him wrong because I disagree on 
Covid.Just because DeSantis wants to look and see if big pharma is covering up 
deaths doesn't make him wrong. Furthermore, if you want to indite and convict 
Trumpo as the Dem Jan 6 Committee is trying to do, it's their process. 
Let's investigate. Let's follow the science and see if evidence gets uncovered 
so that people can be properly treated.

-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: spudboy...@aol.com
Cc: everything-list@googlegroups.com ; 
meekerbr...@gmail.com 
Sent: Sun, Dec 25, 2022 2:22 pm
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

On Sun, Dec 25, 2022 at 1:34 PM  wrote:

> It's not about fairness,

Obviously.  

> it is about using the adversarial court system

So you think lawyers and right wing politicians can do a better job than 
scientists at discovering the objective nature of reality. I disagree.  

> This also causes academia who works with Big Pharma,

And that collaboration has saved millions of lives!  

> Both Pharma and the Universities have tons of money

And unlike Donald Trump and Ron DeSantis they deserve to have even more because 
unlike them they save lives.  
> Like the old Union song went, JC; "Which side are you on, boy, which side are 
> you on?"

I'm on the side that uses the scientific method, I'm on the side of academia 
and "Big Pharma" because that's the side that saves lives. 

Happy Newtonmas

And Mary Newtonmas do you too spud.  John K Clark    See what's on my new list 
at  Extropolisvdc-- 
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Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-25 Thread Brent Meeker





On 12/25/2022 9:04 AM, spudboy...@aol.com wrote:

How am I improving things? I support DeSantis's idea.
Life is dangerous, and before seatbelts were installed more people died.

If the vaccine is perilous to a tiny few, you are still good with 
forcing these to take the vax?

Not if we know who they are.


You don't wish to give them the chance to opt out?
But they don't know who they are.  The people who want to opt out are 
ignorant people influenced by skeptics like you who "just want ALL the 
facts" as though that is reasonable goal, instead of trolling.


Brent

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Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-25 Thread John Clark

On Sun, Dec 25, 2022 at 1:34 PM  wrote:

*> It's not about fairness,*
>

Obviously.

*> it is about using the adversarial court system*
>

So you think lawyers and right wing politicians can do a better job than
scientists at discovering the objective nature of reality. I disagree.

> *This also causes academia who works with Big Pharma,*
>

And that collaboration has saved millions of lives!

*> Both Pharma and the Universities have tons of money*

And unlike Donald Trump and Ron DeSantis they deserve to have even more
because unlike them they save lives.

> *> Like the old Union song went, JC; "Which side are you on, boy, which
> side are you on?"*
>

I'm on the side that uses the scientific method, I'm on the side of
academia and "Big Pharma" because that's the side that saves lives.

*Happy Newtonmas*
>

And Mary Newtonmas do you too spud.

John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis

vdc

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Re: Death, science, and politics

Well, you know what they say John, at Snake Dances its always best to let the 
snake lead. 
For me, we need not have a Church conviction of Galileo, just check and see my 
fellow serfs if some young'uns died suspiciously and any autopsy evidence? Is 
there any information about Pfizer withholding evidence? Did Timmy have a 
family history of clots, or inflammatory disease, cardi-myopathy? Did he drop 
dead from Covid itself? Yeah., I'd trust a jury to perform this.
If big pharma is indicted, they are protected by law, and have lots of 
attorneys to appeal. If this causes researchers to double down and it clears 
the vaccines as being 99.99% safe, that is a good thing. 

-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: spudboy...@aol.com
Cc: everything-list@googlegroups.com ; 
meekerbr...@gmail.com 
Sent: Sun, Dec 25, 2022 12:38 pm
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

On Sun, Dec 25, 2022 at 11:41 AM  wrote:

> The reason I repeat is that they only reason you oppose so vehemently, an 
> investigation is that it may uncover something that makes DeSantis's  look 
> smoking hot! 

A grand jury investigating a scientific subject run by Ron DeSantis would be 
about as fair minded as one of Stalin's show trials and would indeed make 
DeSantis look smoking hot, or at least that's what he thinks, after all 
political advancement by improve public relations is the only reason he would 
do such a thing. However I think it would make him look smoking hot only in the 
way that Lucifer is, or Mephistopheles or Satan or Beelzebub.

 > For me, this is an insane policy by bribed politicians

Well of course it is for you, for you the world is very simple, for you all of 
history and all of current events can be explained by just two words "bribed 
politicians" and there's no need to think any deeper than that.  

> I think an investigation is necessary

Do you really believe you're making a brave revolutionary statement when you 
say that? Do you really believe such an investigation has not already been made 
and will continue for as long as the vaccine is in use, and investigated by 
people who, unlike Ron DeSantis, have serious  scientific chops?  And do you 
really believe the outcome of DeSantis's ridiculous grand jury of scientific 
illiterates and religious fanatics is not already known and, Science be damned, 
is predetermined to be to the political advantage of the Republican death cult? 
You've posted some interesting links in the last couple of days so I know 
you're not a stupid man, so I don't think you believe that. 
John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolisuhv

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Re: Death, science, and politics

It's not about fairness, it is about using the adversarial court system to 
extort the medical data from people who may be deliberately withholding it from 
the public, those being the boards of directors of Big Pharma. This also causes 
academia who works with Big Pharma, for legal and reputational reasons to cover 
their professional asses, so as not to be successfully sued, and or prosecuted 
by district attorneys representing a roused public. This'd be not only 
biologists but more, specifically, University Administrators and, who cut the 
deal$ and their legal team. :-)  Both Pharma and the Universities have tons of 
money and attorneys to represent them. The kid who the CDC, and the Dem 
politiciams send to die (possibly?) have no representation.
Like the old Union song went, JC; "Which side are you on, boy, which side are 
you on?"
I just want the medical researchers to dot i's and cross t's to make sure. 
DeSantis's proposal is sound, and I support it. 
For politics, unless Governor Newsome is better than I rate him, and he could 
be, we'll, get Donny, DeSantis, or Abbott. Name your poison?
The reasons for this we might discuss later. When we get all worked up again!
Which side are you on, boy, which side are you on?"
In the meantime, stay warm, and stay involved!
Happy Newtonmas or as I prefer, Heisenberg Month (Dec 5th). That's the trouble 
the Heisenberg, ya never know where he will be or when? 
Werner Heisenberg - Wikipedia

-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: spudboy...@aol.com
Cc: everything-list@googlegroups.com ; 
meekerbr...@gmail.com 
Sent: Sun, Dec 25, 2022 12:38 pm
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

On Sun, Dec 25, 2022 at 11:41 AM  wrote:

> The reason I repeat is that they only reason you oppose so vehemently, an 
> investigation is that it may uncover something that makes DeSantis's  look 
> smoking hot! 

A grand jury investigating a scientific subject run by Ron DeSantis would be 
about as fair minded as one of Stalin's show trials and would indeed make 
DeSantis look smoking hot, or at least that's what he thinks, after all 
political advancement by improve public relations is the only reason he would 
do such a thing. However I think it would make him look smoking hot only in the 
way that Lucifer is, or Mephistopheles or Satan or Beelzebub.

 > For me, this is an insane policy by bribed politicians

Well of course it is for you, for you the world is very simple, for you all of 
history and all of current events can be explained by just two words "bribed 
politicians" and there's no need to think any deeper than that.  

> I think an investigation is necessary

Do you really believe you're making a brave revolutionary statement when you 
say that? Do you really believe such an investigation has not already been made 
and will continue for as long as the vaccine is in use, and investigated by 
people who, unlike Ron DeSantis, have serious  scientific chops?  And do you 
really believe the outcome of DeSantis's ridiculous grand jury of scientific 
illiterates and religious fanatics is not already known and, Science be damned, 
is predetermined to be to the political advantage of the Republican death cult? 
You've posted some interesting links in the last couple of days so I know 
you're not a stupid man, so I don't think you believe that. 
John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolisuhv

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Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-25 Thread John Clark

On Sun, Dec 25, 2022 at 11:41 AM  wrote:

*> The reason I repeat is that they only reason you oppose so vehemently,
> an investigation is that it may uncover something that makes DeSantis's
> look smoking hot! *
>

A grand jury investigating a scientific subject run by Ron DeSantis would
be about as fair minded as one of Stalin's show trials and would indeed
make DeSantis look smoking hot, or at least that's what he thinks, after
all political advancement by improve public relations is the only reason he
would do such a thing. However I think it would make him look smoking hot
only in the way that Lucifer is, or Mephistopheles or Satan or Beelzebub.

* > For me, this is an insane policy by bribed politicians*
>

Well of course it is for you, for you the world is very simple, for you all
of history and all of current events can be explained by just two words
"bribed politicians" and there's no need to think any deeper than that.

*> I think an investigation is necessary*

Do you really believe you're making a brave revolutionary statement when
you say that? Do you really believe such an investigation has not already
been made and will continue for as long as the vaccine is in use, and
investigated by people who, unlike Ron DeSantis, have serious  scientific
chops?  And do you really believe the outcome of DeSantis's ridiculous
grand jury of scientific illiterates and religious fanatics is not already
known and, Science be damned, is predetermined to be to the political
advantage of the Republican death cult? You've posted some interesting
links in the last couple of days so I know you're not a stupid man, so I
don't think you believe that.

John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis
<https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>
uhv

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Re: Death, science, and politics

How am I improving things? I support DeSantis's idea.Life is dangerous, and 
before seatbelts were installed more people died.
If the vaccine is perilous to a tiny few, you are still good with forcing these 
to take the vax?You don't wish to give them the chance to opt out? That is the 
debate here, and not the success of the vaccines, it is for those that may be 
susceptible to damage (if any?). I am against any potential suppression of 
scientific evidence. 
So, if we find out that some people would die if they took a certain heart 
medication, based on science, would you object to them dropping out because, of 
course medicines kill people!!! What is there IS something to fear? What if 
this is a known factor? What if Moderna or Pfizer is withholding that data, how 
would we know? All, I am asking is let us find out?





-Original Message-
From: Henrik Ohrstrom 
To: spudboy...@aol.com
Cc: everything-list@googlegroups.com; meekerbr...@gmail.com
Sent: Sat, Dec 24, 2022 6:42 pm
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

Life is dangerous.A fraction of everyone who is vaccinated will die.That is 
reality.A fraction of everyone who is vaccinated the old school way, that is 
getting sick, will die. That is also reality.If problems from vax > problems 
from getting sick then we have a problem.Now will that get any better by going 
at it the way you do now?F and h no.Grow up and start doing science without all 
the whining.What are you Mr spudboy actually doing to improve this?I implement 
vaccination and best intensive care practice. I report side effects and 
complications. I follow up effects in reality. I read and try to evaluate the 
relevant publications. I do not do stupid, Yes stupid fearmongering for 
political reasons/gain. And yes forcing people to do stuff is bad. It is 
however NOT a defect of the vaccine./Henrik 

Den sön 25 dec. 2022 00:12  skrev:

In any case, it is wisest to know the scientific truth. The medical truth. Do a 
small fraction of people suffer terminal injury from the vaccinations or no? 
Don't care as long as a majority live, that's a personal choice. Coercion from 
a government to force people to vaccinate? At times this might be necessary, 
yep. Insisting up vaccinations on some that induce fatalities? IF this is a 
Fact? And it may NOT be? 
Public health should not be a death warrant.  
Drug companies trying to hide evidence? A possibility. 
Doing public health based on ideology? Insisting that a cover up continue to 
benefit Party contributors? 
Criminal. 
So, to inform us better, let us find out and see if Big Pharma had evidence. 
No? That's fine. Yes? Let's save a few lives. 



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Re: Death, science, and politics

The reason I repeat is that they only reason you oppose so vehemently, an 
investigation is that it may uncover something that makes DeSantis look smoking 
hot! That is all JC and this is transparent. For me, investigating is good 
medical policy. For you, it's rally round the democrats and their Corporate 
Funder$ in a loyalty oath. If Big Pharma's meds kill young people, it's an 
acceptable loss. 
Got ya! For me, this is an insane policy by bribed politicians including Joey, 
insisting on coerced vaccinations. By the way,, have you considered that with 
the instability your team brings, we'll wind up Not with Trump, Not with 
DeSantis, but with dear, old, Governor Abbott? 

I think an investigation is necessary to find out if young people are croaking 
in droves or not? But that's just me. They eyes of Texas are upon you JC. 
"Fasten your seatbelts, this is going to be a bumpy ride!" -Bette Davis All 
About Eve.Stay warm! 

It's cold everywhere. 

-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: spudboy...@aol.com
Cc: everything-list@googlegroups.com ; 
meekerbr...@gmail.com 
Sent: Sun, Dec 25, 2022 5:43 am
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

On Sat, Dec 24, 2022   wrote:

>  let us have the facts, and all the facts.

You keep repeating that over and over again like a parrot as if nobody had ever 
thought of doing that before while ignoring the fact that today no medication 
in the history of the world has been scientifically investigated more intensely 
than the Covid vaccine. Worldwide vaccine cynicism has already killed tens of 
millions of people and I'm not just talking about Covid, the Taliban and 
religious imbeciles like them are the only reason the polio virus has not gone 
extinct,  and opposition to the MMR vaccine (measles, mumps, and rubella) 
results in tens of thousands of children dying each year who need not have. 
Ignorance is the most deadly disease there is, but you believe what the world 
really needs is even more vaccine cynicism!

> If you are so confident, then you have zero reason to complain about an 
> investigation.

I am very confident the conclusion that will be reached by Ron fucking 
DeSantis's fucking Grand Jury will be whatever it is that they figure will be 
most politically advantageous to the Republican death cult and will have 
absolutely positively NOTHING to do with science or even with basic humanity.

> It will, thus, be a mere waste of time, like the Jan 6th Committee. 

And I am also very confident that Ron fucking DeSantis's fucking Grand Jury 
will be composed entirely of people like you who believe the January 6 
committee was a waste of time.  

> your precious Big Pharma friends

I plead guilty, call me a monster if you want but I have very friendly feelings 
towards "Big Pharma" or any organization that has saved millions of lives 
through brilliant scientific research.  John K Clark    See what's on my new 
list at  Extropolisuyi

0

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Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-25 Thread John Clark

On Sat, Dec 24, 2022   wrote:

>  *let us have the facts, and all the facts.*

You keep repeating that over and over again like a parrot as if nobody had
ever thought of doing that before while ignoring the fact that today no
medication in the history of the world has been scientifically investigated
more intensely than the Covid vaccine. Worldwide vaccine cynicism has
already killed tens of millions of people and I'm not just talking about
Covid, the Taliban and religious imbeciles like them are the only reason
the polio virus has not gone extinct,  and opposition to the MMR vaccine
(measles, mumps, and rubella) results in tens of thousands of children
dying each year who need not have. Ignorance is the most deadly disease
there is, but you believe what the world really needs is even more vaccine
cynicism!

*> If you are so confident, then you have zero reason to complain about an
> investigation.*
>

I am very confident the conclusion that will be reached by Ron fucking
DeSantis's fucking Grand Jury will be whatever it is that they figure will
be most politically advantageous to the Republican death cult and will have
absolutely positively *NOTHING* to do with science or even with basic
humanity.

> *> It will, thus, be a mere waste of time, like the Jan 6th Committee. *
>

And I am also very confident that Ron fucking DeSantis's fucking Grand
Jury will
be composed entirely of people like you who believe the January 6 committee
was a waste of time.

*> your precious Big Pharma friends*

I plead guilty, call me a monster if you want but I have very friendly
feelings towards "Big Pharma" or any organization that has saved millions
of lives through brilliant scientific research.

John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis
<https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>
uyi

0

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Re: Merry Chtistmas on "Death, science, and politics"

2022-12-24 Thread Samiya Illias

The Devils among The Angels & The Khilafat of Adam 
https://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2019/04/the-devils-among-angels-khilafat-of-adam.html
 


> On 24-Dec-2022, at 1:15 AM, Philip Benjamin  wrote:
> 
> 
> [Philip Benjamin]
>Christmas has a suffix of “Mass” which comes from the Latin word missa 
> meaning “sent” used since the 6th or 7th century to describe the Catholic 
> celebration of the Eucharist (The Breaking of Bread or Communion Table) when 
> the priest or deacon dismisses the worsippers in Latin “Ite, missa est”. 
> There is no memorial for birthday of Christ (Christmas) in the Bible, but the 
> Messiah’s death is memorialized in the “Lord’s or Communion Table or Breaking 
> of Bread”, first initiated by the Messiah immediately after the “Last Supper” 
> or Passover before “Crucifixion” (Matt. 26:17-18; Mark 14:12-16; Luke 
> 22:7-13). The early Church (100% Jewish) observed the Communion daily in the 
> Jerusalem Temple and later on First Day (Acts 2:46; 20:7).
>   The willing, vicarious death of the Messiah is effected ONLY on the 
> cancellation of the “Sentence of Death” by the ONLY Sentencer through the 
> agency of the “Sola Scriptura” and the conviction of the “Solus Spiritus 
> Sanctus”, in the willing acceptor. YHWH is the Second Person of the Triune 
> who genetically encoded death penalty as the consequence of insubordination 
> to Adonai (plural) YHWH (single) Elohim(uni-plural). The incarnation of the 
> Second Person is the “Theanthropic Zygote”—100% divine and 100% human-- 
> without any human agency of male  and female. The Almighty is mighty enough 
> to perfect that. The birth, life and death of the “Sentencer” is the record 
> of the 66 Books from Genesis to Revelation—the Lamb ordained, but was slain, 
> from the foundation of the world, buried, risen, ascended and imminently (not 
> necessarily immediately) returning to establish the Kingdom (Genesis 3:15; 
> Romans chapter 5; Galatians 3:16; Ephesians 1:4; 1 Peter 1:19-20; Revelation 
> 13:8). A fortuitous combination of circumstances including the tyrannical 
> decree of taxation by Caesar Augustus fulfils Micah 5:2 prophecy in Bethlehem 
> Judah. Even if there was room in inn, the privacy of a cave- manger would 
> have preferred for the delivery of the Lamb “Born Crucified”.  
>In fact that is the whole story of Christmas—the Mass for the 
> Christ Baby” in Remembrance (Luke 22:19).
> Philip Benjamin   
>  Note:  Hindu/Buddhism, Muslim views on death: They are given below 
> (Atheistic nihilism not included):
> https://slife.org/islamic-view-of-death/
> Islamic Vie of Death. “However, a continuity between all these ideas derived 
> from the basic sources from the Quran and Islamic narratives. One canonical 
> idea is, that the angel of death (Malak al-Maut) appears to the dying to take 
> out their souls. The sinners’ souls are extracted in a most painful way while 
> the righteous are treated easily.
> Another common idea, although appearing relatively late in Islamic 
> traditions, adds that, after the burial, two angels – Munkar and Nakir – come 
> to question the dead in order to test their faith. The righteous believers 
> answer correctly and live in peace and comfort while the sinners and 
> disbelievers fail and punishments ensue. The time period or stage between 
> death and the end of the world is called the life of barzakh. Suicide, 
> euthanasia, and unjust murder as means of death are all prohibited in Islam, 
> and are considered major sins.”
> https://scholarblogs.emory.edu/gravematters/2017/03/05/hindu-perspectives-on-death-karma-and-its-implications/
>  “Hindu Perspectives on Death: [Reincarnation] Karma and Its Implications”.   
>  “Hindu perspectives on death center on the idea that a person’s spirit 
> (atman) is permanent; it lives beyond a biological death. In stark contrast, 
> the physical body is almost like a temporary inhabitation, something 
> disposable that you leave behind with the rest of your material belongings 
> when you die”.
> https://www.alislam.org/khilafat/Khilafat: “Khilafat  the successorship of 
> prophethood. After Prophethood, Khilafat is the most important institution in 
> Islam. Khulafa are ultimately appointed by God through His Divine guidance. 
> Though Khilafat had disappeared, it has been re-established as prophecied by 
> The Holy Prophet, Muhammad” https://www.britannica.com/event/Khilafat-movement
> “Mahatma Gandhi’s noncooperation movement for Indian freedom, promising 
> nonviolence in return for his support of the Khilafat movement. In 1920 the 
> latter movement was marred by the ḥijrat (Urdu: “exodus”; recalling 
> Muhammad’s Hijrah from Mecca) from India to Afghanistan of about 18,000 
> Muslim peasants, who felt

Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-24 Thread Henrik Ohrstrom

Life is dangerous.
A fraction of everyone who is vaccinated will die.
That is reality.
A fraction of everyone who is vaccinated the old school way, that is
getting sick, will die.
That is also reality.
If problems from vax > problems from getting sick then we have a problem.
Now will that get any better by going at it the way you do now?
F and h no.
Grow up and start doing science without all the whining.
What are you Mr spudboy actually doing to improve this?
I implement vaccination and best intensive care practice. I report side
effects and complications. I follow up effects in reality. I read and try
to evaluate the relevant publications.
 I do not do stupid, Yes stupid fearmongering for political reasons/gain.
And yes forcing people to do stuff is bad. It is however NOT a defect of
the vaccine.
/Henrik


Den sön 25 dec. 2022 00:12  skrev:

> In any case, it is wisest to know the scientific truth. The medical truth.
> Do a small fraction of people suffer terminal injury from the vaccinations
> or no?
>
> Don't care as long as a majority live, that's a personal choice. Coercion
> from a government to force people to vaccinate? At times this might be
> necessary, yep. Insisting up vaccinations on some that induce fatalities?
> IF this is a Fact? And it may NOT be?
>
> Public health should not be a death warrant.
>
> Drug companies trying to hide evidence? A possibility.
>
> Doing public health based on ideology? Insisting that a cover up continue
> to benefit Party contributors?
>
> Criminal.
>
> So, to inform us better, let us find out and see if Big Pharma had
> evidence.
>
> No? That's fine. Yes? Let's save a few lives.
>
>
>
>

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Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-24 Thread spudboy100 via Everything List

In any case, it is wisest to know the scientific truth. The medical truth. Do a 
small fraction of people suffer terminal injury from the vaccinations or no? 
Don't care as long as a majority live, that's a personal choice. Coercion from 
a government to force people to vaccinate? At times this might be necessary, 
yep. Insisting up vaccinations on some that induce fatalities? IF this is a 
Fact? And it may NOT be? 
Public health should not be a death warrant.  
Drug companies trying to hide evidence? A possibility. 
Doing public health based on ideology? Insisting that a cover up continue to 
benefit Party contributors? 
Criminal. 
So, to inform us better, let us find out and see if Big Pharma had evidence. 
No? That's fine. Yes? Let's save a few lives. 

-Original Message-
From: Henrik Ohrstrom 
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Cc: meekerbr...@gmail.com
Sent: Sat, Dec 24, 2022 9:26 am
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

Vaccination transform a dangerous pandemic into an "also" as in the patient 
also has covid.But and that is a big but, covid is not the reason for the 
patient being in intensive care or whatever. Without vaccination we would still 
be in the danger zone where a covid infection is a severe danger to everyone 
involved.How much vaccination troubles have we had in Sweden? Some of course. 
Nothing is completely harmless. Less harm than from the unchecked virus? Very 
much so. Very very much less harm than the virus.
So harping about the vaccination? Yes everything should be questioned. But come 
on. The red argumentation in the UD is on the scientific level of Stalins 
Soviet.I am not impressed at all./Henrik 
Den lör 24 dec. 2022 14:45John Clark  skrev:

On Sat, Dec 24, 2022 at 12:58 AM spudboy100 via Everything List 
 wrote:

>  Let's have the truth and be done with it. Do the vaccines harm a fraction of 
> young people or not?

Not.John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
0uo
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Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-24 Thread spudboy100 via Everything List

If you are so confident, then you have zero reason to complain about an 
investigation. It will, thus, be a mere waste of time, like the Jan 6th 
Committee. 

-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Cc: meekerbr...@gmail.com 
Sent: Sat, Dec 24, 2022 8:44 am
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

On Sat, Dec 24, 2022 at 12:58 AM spudboy100 via Everything List 
 wrote:

>  Let's have the truth and be done with it. Do the vaccines harm a fraction of 
> young people or not?

Not.John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
0uo
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Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-24 Thread spudboy100 via Everything List

I take the vaccine and I expect you do as well. If so few young people are 
indeed dying, then there should be NO worries for your precious Big Pharma 
friends. But let us have the facts, and all the facts. 

-Original Message-
From: Lawrence Crowell 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Sat, Dec 24, 2022 8:40 am
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 11:58:06 PM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

Oh, come on admit it? What are you afraid of? Let's have the truth and be done 
with it. Do the vaccines harm a fraction of young people or not? That simple. 

Or, why don't you research it? The evidence suggests that vaccines against 
Covid have saved several million American lives and maybe 10 times that 
worldwide. The largest cluster of problems were with the J vaccine in 2020. I 
will make this simple. Look at this Mortality Rate and Characteristics of 
Deaths Following COVID-19 Vaccination - 
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34055843/ . Reported are 55 vaccine related 
deaths per 8.2 million. Covid deaths run about .5% of cases, and without the 
vaccine out of 8.2 million they may have been 41,000 deaths.
LC 

-Original Message-
From: Brent Meeker 
To: everyth...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, Dec 23, 2022 9:45 pm
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

 On 12/18/2022 10:02 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:

 So, you're convinced that there is no concern for adverse reactions from the 
mRNA vaccinations?  
 You're asking that when there's concern for Jewish space lasers?  concern for 
Lizard people posing as human?  concern for pedophilia rings eating babies?  
concern that hundreds of election officials in a half-a-dozen states committed 
election fraud?  

 Nobody is having medical problems from, in many cases, coerced into taking the 
vaccinations.  

 Medical problems?  One person had a headache?  or 200 people died?  Why would 
coerced people have more problems than the millions of people who took it 
voluntarily...and who therefore constitute an enormous statistical sample?

 Or is it merely, that I glommed Epoch Times as a source? 
  So, if I supplied a medical study, if I ever stumbled across such a study, 
you'd peruse it? 

 Why not "study" the 224 million US citizens fully vaccinated.  If there is a 
0.01% death rate from vaccination then they would be two thousand deaths from 
vaccination.  Those should be easy to find.  So publish the names.

 Brent

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Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-24 Thread Henrik Ohrstrom

Vaccination transform a dangerous pandemic into an "also" as in the patient
also has covid.
But and that is a big but, covid is not the reason for the patient being in
intensive care or whatever.
Without vaccination we would still be in the danger zone where a covid
infection is a severe danger to everyone involved.
How much vaccination troubles have we had in Sweden? Some of course.
Nothing is completely harmless. Less harm than from the unchecked virus?
Very much so. Very very much less harm than the virus.

So harping about the vaccination? Yes everything should be questioned. But
come on. The red argumentation in the UD is on the scientific level of
Stalins Soviet.
I am not impressed at all.
/Henrik

Den lör 24 dec. 2022 14:45John Clark  skrev:

> On Sat, Dec 24, 2022 at 12:58 AM spudboy100 via Everything List <
> everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> *>  Let's have the truth and be done with it. Do the vaccines harm a
>> fraction of young people or not?*
>>
>
> Not.
> John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis
> 
> 0uo
> t
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv06YtOJ5SorSrrJDHzYfYgZcU0E9jauA9TiB1Sp0jaL2g%40mail.gmail.com
> 
> .
>

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Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-24 Thread John Clark

On Sat, Dec 24, 2022 at 12:58 AM spudboy100 via Everything List <
everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote:

*>  Let's have the truth and be done with it. Do the vaccines harm a
> fraction of young people or not?*
>

Not.
John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis

0uo
t

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Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-24 Thread Lawrence Crowell

On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 11:58:06 PM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

> Oh, come on admit it? What are you afraid of? Let's have the truth and be 
> done with it. Do the vaccines harm a fraction of young people or not? That 
> simple.  
>
>
>
Or, why don't you research it? The evidence suggests that vaccines against 
Covid have saved several million American lives and maybe 10 times that 
worldwide. The largest cluster of problems were with the J vaccine in 
2020. I will make this simple. Look at this Mortality Rate and 
Characteristics of Deaths Following COVID-19 Vaccination -
 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34055843/ 
<https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34055843/> . Reported are 55 vaccine 
related deaths per 8.2 million. Covid deaths run about .5% of cases, and 
without the vaccine out of 8.2 million they may have been 41,000 deaths.

LC
 

>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Brent Meeker 
> To: everyth...@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Fri, Dec 23, 2022 9:45 pm
> Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics
>
>
>
> On 12/18/2022 10:02 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
>
> So, you're convinced that there is no concern for adverse reactions from 
> the mRNA vaccinations? 
>
> You're asking that when there's concern for Jewish space lasers?  concern 
> for Lizard people posing as human?  concern for pedophilia rings eating 
> babies?  concern that hundreds of election officials in a half-a-dozen 
> states committed election fraud?  
>
> Nobody is having medical problems from, in many cases, coerced into taking 
> the vaccinations. 
>
>
> Medical problems?  One person had a headache?  or 200 people died?  Why 
> would coerced people have more problems than the millions of people who 
> took it voluntarily...and who therefore constitute an enormous statistical 
> sample?
>
> Or is it merely, that I glommed Epoch Times as a source? 
>
> So, if I supplied a medical study, if I ever stumbled across such a study, 
> you'd peruse it? 
>
>
> Why not "study" the 224 million US citizens fully vaccinated.  If there is 
> a 0.01% death rate from vaccination then they would be two thousand deaths 
> from vaccination.  Those should be easy to find.  So publish the names.
>
> Brent
>

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Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-23 Thread spudboy100 via Everything List

Oh, come on admit it? What are you afraid of? Let's have the truth and be done 
with it. Do the vaccines harm a fraction of young people or not? That simple. 

-Original Message-
From: Brent Meeker 
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, Dec 23, 2022 9:45 pm
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

 On 12/18/2022 10:02 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:

 So, you're convinced that there is no concern for adverse reactions from the 
mRNA vaccinations?  
 You're asking that when there's concern for Jewish space lasers?  concern for 
Lizard people posing as human?  concern for pedophilia rings eating babies?  
concern that hundreds of election officials in a half-a-dozen states committed 
election fraud?  

 Nobody is having medical problems from, in many cases, coerced into taking the 
vaccinations.  

 Medical problems?  One person had a headache?  or 200 people died?  Why would 
coerced people have more problems than the millions of people who took it 
voluntarily...and who therefore constitute an enormous statistical sample?

 Or is it merely, that I glommed Epoch Times as a source? 
  So, if I supplied a medical study, if I ever stumbled across such a study, 
you'd peruse it? 

 Why not "study" the 224 million US citizens fully vaccinated.  If there is a 
0.01% death rate from vaccination then they would be two thousand deaths from 
vaccination.  Those should be easy to find.  So publish the names.

 Brent

 -Original Message-
 From: Lawrence Crowell 
 To: Everything List 
 Sent: Sun, Dec 18, 2022 11:36 am
 Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

   On Sunday, December 18, 2022 at 6:01:52 AM UTC-6 johnk...@gmail.com wrote:

   On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 9:19 PM  wrote:

 >the thing is scientifically is not to do what the dem-progressives do which 
 >is demand that everyone get vaccinated, but to have some biological screening 
 >done to prevent those with medical-genetic dispositions to be harmed by 
 >vaccination damage, to not be subjected to a death warrant?  

  We have excellent data on the safety of the Covid vaccine because 
worldwide 12.7 BILLION shots have been given, so now we know that it is one of 
the safest medications in the history of the world. The most common side effect 
is anaphylactic shock which occurs in 5 people out of 1 million, however none 
of those cases have been fatal. It's impossible to prove that anything is 100% 
safe but we know for certain that the set of people who have received a "death 
warrant" because of the vaccine is tiny and may indeed be the null set. However 
the set of people who are alive because of the Covid shot is HUGE.     

  > is there a thing between one political party receiving donation$ from 
Pfizer and Moderna?  

 Yeah yeah, we've heard that paranoid right wing crap before. And why the 
hell would you want to demonize Pfizer and Moderna?! Those two companies have 
saved millions of lives and trillions of dollars! John K Clark    See 
what's on my new list at  Extropolis
   tod

  Spudboy has little credibility IMO. I dismiss most of his posts are 
conspiratorial fear-mongering nonsense. 
  LC   

  Tucker Carlson made a big stink on his silly Fox show when he said 4863 
people died shortly after receiving a Covid shot. What he said was true but 
what he didn't say was that more than 285 MILLION shots had been administered 
so that's just 0.0017% , and he didn't mention that 80% of those were over 60 
years old, and he didn't mention that number included those who died from any 
cause including car crashes and lightning strikes, and he didn't mention that 
not a single one of those 4863 deaths has been conclusively linked to the Covid 
shot. And he didn't mention that the Covid vaccine has saved an estimated 3 
million lives in the US and 20 million lives worldwide.  
  20% of the US population (nearly all members of the Republican death cult) 
has still not received one single Covid shot, do you seriously believe the 
world would be a better place if that percentage was even higher? Do we really 
need more vaccine skepticism?  

8ha  

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Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-23 Thread Brent Meeker




On 12/18/2022 10:02 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
So, you're convinced that there is no concern for adverse reactions 
from the mRNA vaccinations?
You're asking that when there's concern for Jewish space lasers? concern 
for Lizard people posing as human?  concern for pedophilia rings eating 
babies?  concern that hundreds of election officials in a half-a-dozen 
states committed election fraud?


Nobody is having medical problems from, in many cases, coerced into 
taking the vaccinations.


Medical problems?  One person had a headache?  or 200 people died? Why 
would coerced people have more problems than the millions of people who 
took it voluntarily...and who therefore constitute an enormous 
statistical sample?



Or is it merely, that I glommed Epoch Times as a source?

So, if I supplied a medical study, if I ever stumbled across such a 
study, you'd peruse it?


Why not "study" the 224 million US citizens fully vaccinated.  If there 
is a 0.01% death rate from vaccination then they would be two thousand 
deaths from vaccination.  Those should be easy to find.  So publish the 
names.


Brent




-Original Message-
From: Lawrence Crowell 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Sun, Dec 18, 2022 11:36 am
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

On Sunday, December 18, 2022 at 6:01:52 AM UTC-6 johnk...@gmail.com wrote:

On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 9:19 PM  wrote:

/>the thing is scientifically is not to do what the
dem-progressives do which is demand that everyone get
vaccinated, but to have some biological screening done to
prevent those with medical-genetic dispositions to be harmed
by vaccination damage, to not be subjected to a death warrant? /


We have excellent data on the safety of the Covid vaccine because
worldwide 12.7 BILLION shots have been given, so now we know that
it is one of the safest medications in the history of the world.
The most common side effect is anaphylactic shock which occurs in
5 people out of 1 million, however none of those cases have been
fatal. It's impossible to prove that anything is 100% safe but we
know for certain that the set of people who have received a "death
warrant" because of the vaccine is tiny and may indeed be the null
set. However the set of people who are alive because of the Covid
shot is *HUGE*.

/> is there a thing between one political party receiving
donation$ from Pfizer and Moderna?/


Yeah yeah, we've heard that paranoid right wing crap before. And
why the hell would you want to demonize Pfizer and Moderna?! Those
two companies have saved millions of lives and trillions of dollars!
John K Clark    See what's on my new list at Extropolis
<https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>
tod


Spudboy has little credibility IMO. I dismiss most of his posts are 
conspiratorial fear-mongering nonsense.


LC




Tucker Carlson made a big stink on his silly Fox showwhen he
said 4863 people died shortly after receiving a Covid shot.
What he said was true but what he didn't say was that more
than 285 MILLION shots had been administered so that's just
0.0017% , and he didn't mention that 80% of those were over 60
years old, and he didn't mention that number included those
who died from any cause including car crashes and lightning
strikes, and he didn't mention that not a single one of those
4863 deaths has been conclusively linked to the Covid shot.
And he didn't mention that the Covid vaccine has saved an
estimated 3 million lives in the US and 20 million lives
worldwide.

20% of the US population (nearly all members of the Republican
death cult) has still not received one single Covid shot, do
you seriously believe the world would be a better place if
that percentage was even higher? Do we really need more
vaccine skepticism?

//

8ha

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Merry Chtistmas on "Death, science, and politics"

2022-12-23 Thread Philip Benjamin

[Philip Benjamin]
   Christmas has a suffix of “Mass” which comes from the Latin word missa 
meaning “sent” used since the 6th or 7th century to describe the Catholic 
celebration of the Eucharist (The Breaking of Bread or Communion Table) when 
the priest or deacon dismisses the worsippers in Latin “Ite, missa est”. There 
is no memorial for birthday of Christ (Christmas) in the Bible, but the 
Messiah’s death is memorialized in the “Lord’s or Communion Table or Breaking 
of Bread”, first initiated by the Messiah immediately after the “Last Supper” 
or Passover before “Crucifixion” (Matt. 26:17-18; Mark 14:12-16; Luke 22:7-13). 
The early Church (100% Jewish) observed the Communion daily in the Jerusalem 
Temple and later on First Day (Acts 2:46; 20:7).
  The willing, vicarious death of the Messiah is effected ONLY on the 
cancellation of the “Sentence of Death” by the ONLY Sentencer through the 
agency of the “Sola Scriptura” and the conviction of the “Solus Spiritus 
Sanctus”, in the willing acceptor. YHWH is the Second Person of the Triune who 
genetically encoded death penalty as the consequence of insubordination to 
Adonai (plural) YHWH (single) Elohim(uni-plural). The incarnation of the Second 
Person is the “Theanthropic Zygote”—100% divine and 100% human-- without any 
human agency of male  and female. The Almighty is mighty enough to perfect 
that. The birth, life and death of the “Sentencer” is the record of the 66 
Books from Genesis to Revelation—the Lamb ordained, but was slain, from the 
foundation of the world, buried, risen, ascended and imminently (not 
necessarily immediately) returning to establish the Kingdom (Genesis 3:15; 
Romans chapter 5; Galatians 3:16; Ephesians 1:4; 1 Peter 1:19-20; Revelation 
13:8). A fortuitous combination of circumstances including the tyrannical 
decree of taxation by Caesar Augustus fulfils Micah 5:2 prophecy in Bethlehem 
Judah. Even if there was room in inn, the privacy of a cave- manger would have 
preferred for the delivery of the Lamb “Born Crucified”.
   In fact that is the whole story of Christmas—the Mass for the Christ 
Baby” in Remembrance (Luke 22:19).
Philip Benjamin
 Note:  Hindu/Buddhism, Muslim views on death: They are given below (Atheistic 
nihilism not included):
https://slife.org/islamic-view-of-death/
Islamic Vie of Death. “However, a continuity between all these ideas derived 
from the basic sources from the Quran and Islamic narratives. One canonical 
idea is, that the angel of death (Malak al-Maut) appears to the dying to take 
out their souls. The sinners’ souls are extracted in a most painful way while 
the righteous are treated easily.
Another common idea, although appearing relatively late in Islamic traditions, 
adds that, after the burial, two angels – Munkar and Nakir – come to question 
the dead in order to test their faith. The righteous believers answer correctly 
and live in peace and comfort while the sinners and disbelievers fail and 
punishments ensue. The time period or stage between death and the end of the 
world is called the life of barzakh. Suicide, euthanasia, and unjust murder as 
means of death are all prohibited in Islam, and are considered major sins.”
https://scholarblogs.emory.edu/gravematters/2017/03/05/hindu-perspectives-on-death-karma-and-its-implications/
 “Hindu Perspectives on Death: [Reincarnation] Karma and Its Implications”.
“Hindu perspectives on death center on the idea that a person’s spirit (atman) 
is permanent; it lives beyond a biological death. In stark contrast, the 
physical body is almost like a temporary inhabitation, something disposable 
that you leave behind with the rest of your material belongings when you die”.
https://www.alislam.org/khilafat/Khilafat: “Khilafat  the successorship of 
prophethood. After Prophethood, Khilafat is the most important institution in 
Islam. Khulafa are ultimately appointed by God through His Divine guidance. 
Though Khilafat had disappeared, it has been re-established as prophecied by 
The Holy Prophet, Muhammad” https://www.britannica.com/event/Khilafat-movement
“Mahatma Gandhi’s noncooperation movement for Indian freedom, promising 
nonviolence in return for his support of the Khilafat movement. In 1920 the 
latter movement was marred by the ḥijrat (Urdu: “exodus”; recalling Muhammad’s 
Hijrah from Mecca) from India to Afghanistan of about 18,000 Muslim peasants, 
who felt that India was an apostate land. It was also tarnished by the Muslim 
Malabar rebellion in south India in 1921, the excesses of which deeply stirred 
Hindu India. Gandhi’s suspension of his movement and his arrest in March 1922 
weakened the Khilafat movement still further. It was further undermined when 
Mustafa Kemal Atatürk drove the Greeks from western Asia Minor in 1922 and 
deposed the Turkish sultan Mehmed VI in the same year. The movement finally 
collapsed when Atatürk abolished the caliphate altogether in 1924”.

From: everything-list

Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-22 Thread John Clark

On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 7:47 PM spudboy100 via Everything List <
everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote:

>
> *> Well, young people have died so let us see if it is probable that it
> was instead some unknown or underlying medical condition, rather than mRNA?
> It's a good reason to see, furthermore of researcher can tag the cause
> ahead of people getting vaccinated. Here is Nature with a 2 day old article
> on all vaccinations. *
> https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-04341-9
>

And you think that article supports your position and that of the
Republican death cult?! You think that when the journal Nature says
that "*global
vaccination rates have hit their lowest point since 2008*" they were
applauding that fact? I don't think so. I think it supports my position
that you haven't even read most of the many many links you typically spew
out in nearly every post, I think you just type in something into a search
engine and then vomit out the first dozen hits to the list.

John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis
<https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>
uvx

>
>

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Re: Death, science, and politics

Larry, rather than bad brains, let us conclude that not all of us are 
neurobiologically fit to become a physicist, or in Johnny's case, an engineer. 
Maybe, I can look up how Musk is doing with his neural chips and pick up a 12 
pack? Still, I am concluding that whatever gifts you guys possess it gets 
eclipsed by your belief systems. 
For a corrupt political establishment, I would ask you to refute this study 
indicating that the US is not a type of oligarchy. Note: I am not saying that 
the reason I am not living in the Playboy Mansion while being the Director of 
Fermilab, is because of this "oligarchy"  that I honk about. 

Refute if you have the time?
Major Study Finds the US Is an Oligarchy (businessinsider.com)

Here also is a New Republic article which should sufficiently Left enough to be 
considered trustworthy by JC and 
yourself.https://newrepublic.com/post/168044/united-states-tax-havens-south-dakota-plutocracy
The Nation-safely one of yours..not giving you the Epoch Times.It’s Official: 
America Is an Oligarchy | The Nation
The New Yorker- The editors probably went to your First Communion?Turning the 
Focus on America’s Oligarchs | The New Yorker

Senator, Bernie Sanders-  (psst! I agree with the 
Bern!)https://www.sanders.senate.gov/op-eds/the-us-has-a-ruling-class-and-americans-must-stand-up-to-it/

Salon!https://www.salon.com/2021/09/28/americas-fate-looks-bleak-will-it-be-oligarchy-or-autocracy/

If, I am correct, so what do we do about it? Me: Nothing. It's their power, 
their laws, their cash. Get some sleep. We'll discuss anti-De Sitter Space in 
the morning. 
30 years ago the former editor of National Lampoon, P.J. O' Rourke  published a 
semi-serious look at this system, Parliament of Whores.Parliament of Whores: A 
Lone Humorist Attempts to Explain the Entire U.S. Government - Kindle edition 
by O'Rourke, P. J., Ferguson, Andrew. Politics & Social Sciences Kindle eBooks 
@ Amazon.com.

On the other hand what you suggested earlier is akin to what Harry Lime said 
(Orson Welles) in The Third Man, by Graham Greene- sound on please. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cydkTy6GmFA
Goodbye, Harry, er, uh, Larry! ;-)



-Original Message-
From: Lawrence Crowell 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Wed, Dec 21, 2022 7:36 pm
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 3:07:48 PM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:



Am I trying to harm Pfizer and Moderna because they send Schiff money? No. They 
will send the DNC money whether I stomp my feet or not.
So, now that we've got that all solved.

Sure big pharma sends money to the DNC poohbahs, at about the same rate they 
send money to the RNC poohbahs. The financial, banking, corporate world sends 
money to both parties, that way they have money influence over elected 
representatives. It is even simpler than what you think. Please, stop listening 
to political trash; political media crap is largely meant for people with bad 
brains.
LC-- 
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Re: Death, science, and politics

Well, young people have died so let us see if it is probable that it was 
instead some unknown or underlying medical condition, rather than mRNA? It's a 
good reason to see, furthermore of researcher can tag the cause ahead of people 
getting vaccinated.

Here is Nature with a 2 day old article on all 
vaccinations.https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-04341-9
Here the CDC's view on the 
vaccinations-https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

Here is CNN report indicating that reactions to the jab appear 
minor-https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/24/health/covid-antibody-response-vaccines/index.html

Here is Kaiser monitoring 
reports-https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/24/health/covid-antibody-response-vaccines/index.html

Here is Public Health Toronto with a related 
summary-PDFhttps://www.publichealthontario.ca/-/media/documents/ncov/epi/covid-19-aefi-report.pdf?sc_lang=en

Here is from the British Medical Journal calling for more research because of 
the deaths triggering concern.https://www.bmj.com/content/379/bmj.o2527

The Journal 
Science-https://www.science.org/content/article/heart-risks-data-gaps-fuel-debate-covid-19-boosters-young-people

Last, researchers ain't gawdz. 
https://www.science.org/content/article/we-made-mistake-omicron-origin-study-retracted-after-widespread-criticism

Moral? We should find out if the mRNA vaccines do cause harm to a few, Even 
if-DeSantis becomes president.Joe gets elected to a 2nd term.Trump ascends the 
presidency a 2nd time an appoints Lawrence Crowell his Science Advisor and JC 
his NASA Administrator. AOC ascends the presidency with brilliance and panache!
To Jesse, I am good with whatever is found by researchers so we can better 
protect patients as necessary, and decrease mortality. You defended Jason Resch 
when he had the audacity to suggest we look at anything that could treat COVID 
as being an agent for mortality reduction. A Shonda! "Help Help me Shonda!"
I conclude that work is being done by the FDA that would offer treatments for 
Covid while avoiding injecting patients who have any vaccine vulnerabilities 
(if 
proved!!).https://www.fda.gov/drugs/emergency-preparedness-drugs/coronavirus-covid-19-drugs





-Original Message-
From: Jesse Mazer 
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wed, Dec 21, 2022 4:33 pm
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics



On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 4:07 PM spudboy100 via Everything List 
 wrote:



Has there been deaths from the vaccinations? I don't know? All I say is, let's 
have a look?

That doesn't seem like a good question to ask if we're thinking about policy, 
any vaccine whatsoever probably has some miniscule risk of causing 
complications that lead to death, see section 4 of the pre-Covid 2016 paper at 
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4599698/ ...but as long as the 
risk from dying of the vaccine is significantly smaller than the risk of being 
unvaccinated and dying from a complication after catching the disease, 
vaccination should still be recommended as a general policy, no? And there have 
already been studies of this with the Covid vaccine, for example the one at 
https://www.acc.org/Latest-in-Cardiology/Articles/2022/02/09/12/56/Vaccine-Associated-Myocarditis-Risk-in-Context
 found that although the risk of myocarditis linked to the vaccine may be a 
little higher than the risk of myocarditis linked to Covid if we're looking 
specifically at men under 29, the overall risk of hospitalization is 
significantly higher with Covid for unvaccinated men under 29 (since Covid can 
cause people to be hospitalized for lots of reasons other than myocarditis), 
and the study didn't turn up any instances of people actually dying from 
myocarditis after getting the vaccine, but it did find some deaths from Covid 
among unvaccinated men in this age group.-- 
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Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-21 Thread Lawrence Crowell

On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 3:07:48 PM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

>
>
> Am I trying to harm Pfizer and Moderna because they send Schiff money? 
> No. They will send the DNC money whether I stomp my feet or not.
>
> So, now that we've got that all solved.
>

Sure big pharma sends money to the DNC poohbahs, at about the same rate 
they send money to the RNC poohbahs. The financial, banking, corporate 
world sends money to both parties, that way they have money influence over 
elected representatives. It is even simpler than what you think. Please, 
stop listening to political trash; political media crap is largely meant 
for people with bad brains.

LC

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Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-21 Thread Jesse Mazer

On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 4:07 PM spudboy100 via Everything List <
everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote:

>
>
> Has there been deaths from the vaccinations? I don't know? All I say is,
> let's have a look?
>

That doesn't seem like a good question to ask if we're thinking about
policy, any vaccine whatsoever probably has some miniscule risk of causing
complications that lead to death, see section 4 of the pre-Covid 2016 paper
at https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4599698/ ...but as long as
the risk from dying of the vaccine is significantly smaller than the risk
of being unvaccinated and dying from a complication after catching the
disease, vaccination should still be recommended as a general policy, no?
And there have already been studies of this with the Covid vaccine, for
example the one at
https://www.acc.org/Latest-in-Cardiology/Articles/2022/02/09/12/56/Vaccine-Associated-Myocarditis-Risk-in-Context
found that although the risk of myocarditis linked to the vaccine may be a
little higher than the risk of myocarditis linked to Covid if we're looking
specifically at men under 29, the overall risk of hospitalization is
significantly higher with Covid for unvaccinated men under 29 (since Covid
can cause people to be hospitalized for lots of reasons other than
myocarditis), and the study didn't turn up any instances of people actually
dying from myocarditis after getting the vaccine, but it did find some
deaths from Covid among unvaccinated men in this age group.

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Re: Death, science, and politics

Yeah, trust the government axiomatically! So we should trust our Fuhrers' is 
that it? Sorry bud, the American people respectfully disagree with your plea 
for adoration of the attorneys and their loyal servants. 

https://news.gallup.com/poll/355124/americans-trust-government-remains-low.aspx




-Original Message-
From: Brent Meeker 
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wed, Dec 21, 2022 2:47 pm
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

 Bullshit.  Potato Boy's only concern is to foment distrust of the government.  
 
 Brent
 
 On 12/21/2022 5:50 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
  
 
Well stated. I am not advocating vaccine aversion, and simply am deeply 
concerned about those individuals forced by government edict IF they have a 
vulnerability to the mRNA vaccines or anything else. Forcing someone to perish 
is the concern here. Taking the vaccines out of ignorance for these people, IF 
there is suppression of evidence, is a concern as well.
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Stathis Papaioannou 
 To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Tue, Dec 20, 2022 8:22 pm
 Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics
 
   
  
  On Wed, 21 Dec 2022 at 11:57, spudboy100 via Everything List 
 wrote:
  
 I have had the Pfizer shots and advocate these for most of our population. On 
the other hand, if some people have allergic reactions to these shots causing 
clotting and cardiomyopathy, why would anyone sane demand that they take 
medicine that will surely kill them? What kind of people demand loyalty unto 
death, for a public medical policy that doesn't differentiate for example about 
physiological or genetic susceptibility?
  
 
  Clotting disorders and cardiomyopathy are not allergic reactions. You would 
not know that you would have these problems before you had them, otherwise of 
course you would not have the vaccine. You would have the vaccine because the 
risk of harm from it is a lot less than the risk of harm from the virus. The 
practice of inoculation with active smallpox, which preceded the invention of 
vaccination, carried a risk of severe disease and death, but it was used 
because the risk was still less than infection by respiratory spread.
    
  
 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34908713/ 
  https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34921468/
  
  https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html
  
  https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35655235/
  
  Thus, all we need to do to reassure people is the willingness, so far 
undemonstrated by the CDC and NIH and Joey, to fund for testing those who might 
be vulnerable? It may be worth it medically speaking once identified to switch 
to other modalities. Astra-Zenica, the Chinese crap (50% effective) taking 
Paxlovid, masking up?  
  
  
  
  
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Dylan Distasio 
 To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Tue, Dec 20, 2022 1:47 pm
 Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics
 
   I'd point out that the large majority of people in the US now have concerns 
over these particular vaccines based on how public health policy has been 
conducted over the last 2+ years.   You may be disappointed to find out that 
it's not just righty wingnuts who are questioning the reliability and veracity 
of public health agencies due to how they comported themselves, especially now 
that people have the benefit of hindsight.   The CDC in particular has done an 
incredible amount of damage to their previously sterling reputation. 
  US CDC data show that while about 69% of the US population has completed the 
primary 2-dose vaccine series, only about 14% of people aged 5 and older have 
received the updated booster.
  
  This might have been avoided if public health agencies had avoided allowing 
themselves to be politicized, and been upfront about what they could know with 
certainty throughout this process, and honest enough to admit where things were 
not as clear cut.    
  Instead of basing policy that would have a huge impact on businesses and 
people's livelihoods on science, many decisions were made arbitrarily: 
https://www.forbes.com/sites/graisondangor/2021/09/19/cdcs-six-foot-social-distancing-rule-was-arbitrary-says-former-fda-commissioner/?sh=2059263ae8e6
  
  They also disregarded natural immunity in regard to setting policy because it 
would overcomplicate things, and because in their opinion, people were too 
stupid to have a nuanced conversation on it.   
  
  Instead of attempting an honest discussion and allowing those with concerns 
to voice them and potentially be refuted in the public square and in the 
literature, they, in concert, with the mainstream press attempted to squash any 
efforts to do so.   Anyone who expressed any concerns was publicly demonized by 
politicians, public figures, and the press. 
  It also didn't help that they changed the long standing definition of a 
vaccine (and no, I'm not buying their explanation and I doubt many others are):
 
https

Re: Death, science, and politics

I studied what Joe did, before I criticized him. He banned fracking on public 
lands, then he didn't.  When prices went up in 21, he rescinded the ban. He 
hemmed and hawed about drilling in Alaska, and then decided to drill. He has 
gone back and forth about ocean drilling. 
Now, I could present evidence of my assertions, but you are not interested in 
such, because it rubs against your party-loyalty, which is the only 'faith' you 
have. This is probably more than myself, so each to their own!
About the mRNA, you deliberately avoid wanting not only yourself, but anyone 
else from seeing if there has been unintentional fatalities, from the 12.7 
billion shots? In any case, the grand jury move by D will go ahead. Will it 
have any impact, I don't know? Is there any cover up involved? I don't know?

Has there been deaths from the vaccinations? I don't know? All I say is, let's 
have a look?Is your primary reason for objecting to the grand jury medically 
based? Obviously not. Is it politically driven as a thing for democrat voters 
to rally to as a cause against DeSantis? For sure. 
Will this work as a political strategy for the DNC to pursue against DeSantis 
to thwart having to run against him in 2024? No. He has been too successful as 
a governor to be defeated by something only the democrats insist on, Protecting 
their campaign contributors, Pfizer & Moderna $$$. Most rank and file democrats 
will not care that much about their party's deep pocket funders. This is a 
fact. 
Do republicans seek to protect THEIR campaign donors? You bet your sweet ass we 
do! Who am I talking about? Fossil Fuel producers and Defense contractors $$$. 
Am I trying to harm Pfizer and Moderna because they send Schiff money? No. They 
will send the DNC money whether I stomp my feet or not.
So, now that we've got that all solved.

-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: spudboy...@aol.com
Cc: everything-list@googlegroups.com ; 
meekerbr...@gmail.com 
Sent: Wed, Dec 21, 2022 11:42 am
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 10:44 AM  wrote:

> What I never ever would have done is ban fracking and drilling like Joey 
> done, 

You keep repeating that lie even though, as I pointed out before, Joe Biden has 
NOT banned fracking. And you keep repeating that we really should start 
investigating the safety of the Covid vaccine while ignoring the fact that 
because 12.7 billion shots have already been given, the safety of the vaccine 
is already known with greater accuracy than any other medication in the history 
of the world.  But I guess you've decided to do what Donald Trump does and 
figure if you just keep repeating the same lie over and over again eventually 
people are going to start to believe it.

 John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

hmu

oyu
2de

How magnanimous of you to volunteer for this vitally important activity!  
However, given the fact that 12.7 billion shots have already been given don't 
you imagine this has already been done, and done many many times by people with 
vastly greater knowledge and experience with the complex science of statistics 
than you have, in fact even greater than the mathematical knowledge that the 
wonderful Ron DeSantis has?

> Personally, I hope there is nothing to the mRNA accusation.

Of course there is nothing to the ignorant mRNA accusations, but that doesn't 
matter because the accusations will NEVER stop, not as long as the world is 
full of right wing anti-science semi-illiterates, just as the accusations that 
the moon landing was faked will never stop, or that a crashed interstellar 
flying saucer has been in a secret military base in Roswell New Mexico for 75 
years, or that Jewish space lasers cause forest fires. This is because a belief 
that did not come into existence by reason cannot be destroyed by reason. 

ojm

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Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-21 Thread Brent Meeker

Bullshit.  Potato Boy's only concern is to foment distrust of the 
government.


Brent

On 12/21/2022 5:50 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
Well stated. I am not advocating vaccine aversion, and simply am 
deeply concerned about those individuals forced by government edict IF 
they have a vulnerability to the mRNA vaccines or anything else. 
Forcing someone to perish is the concern here. Taking the vaccines out 
of ignorance for these people, IF there is suppression of evidence, is 
a concern as well.



-Original Message-
From: Stathis Papaioannou 
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tue, Dec 20, 2022 8:22 pm
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics



On Wed, 21 Dec 2022 at 11:57, spudboy100 via Everything List 
 wrote:


I have had the Pfizer shots and advocate these for most of our
population. On the other hand, if some people have allergic
reactions to these shots causing clotting and cardiomyopathy, why
would anyone sane demand that they take medicine that will surely
kill them? What kind of people demand loyalty unto death, for a
public medical policy that doesn't differentiate for example about
physiological or genetic susceptibility?


Clotting disorders and cardiomyopathy are not allergic reactions. You 
would not know that you would have these problems before you had them, 
otherwise of course you would not have the vaccine. You would have the 
vaccine because the risk of harm from it is a lot less than the risk 
of harm from the virus. The practice of inoculation with active 
smallpox, which preceded the invention of vaccination, carried a risk 
of severe disease and death, but it was used because the risk was 
still less than infection by respiratory spread.



https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34908713/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34921468/


https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35655235/

Thus, all we need to do to reassure people is the willingness, so
far undemonstrated by the CDC and NIH and Joey, to fund for
testing those who might be vulnerable? It may be worth it
medically speaking once identified to switch to other modalities.
Astra-Zenica, the Chinese crap (50% effective) taking Paxlovid,
masking up?






-Original Message-
From: Dylan Distasio 
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tue, Dec 20, 2022 1:47 pm
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

I'd point out that the large majority of people in the US now have
concerns over these particular vaccines based on how public health
policy has been conducted over the last 2+ years.   You may be
disappointed to find out that it's not just righty wingnuts who
are questioning the reliability and veracity of public health
agencies due to how they comported themselves, especially now that
people have the benefit of hindsight.   The CDC in particular has
done an incredible amount of damage to their previously sterling
reputation.

US CDC data show that while about 69% of the US population has
completed the primary 2-dose vaccine series, only about 14% of
people aged 5 and older have received the updated booster.

This might have been avoided if public health agencies had avoided
allowing themselves to be politicized, and been upfront about what
they could know with certainty throughout this process, and honest
enough to admit where things were not as clear cut.

Instead of basing policy that would have a huge impact on
businesses and people's livelihoods on science, many decisions
were made arbitrarily:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/graisondangor/2021/09/19/cdcs-six-foot-social-distancing-rule-was-arbitrary-says-former-fda-commissioner/?sh=2059263ae8e6

They also disregarded natural immunity in regard to setting policy
because it would overcomplicate things, and because in their
opinion, people were too stupid to have a nuanced conversation on it.

Instead of attempting an honest discussion and allowing those with
concerns to voice them and potentially be refuted in the public
square and in the literature, they, in concert, with the
mainstream press attempted to squash any efforts to do so. 
 Anyone who expressed any concerns was publicly demonized by
politicians, public figures, and the press.

It also didn't help that they changed the long standing definition
of a vaccine (and no, I'm not buying their explanation and I doubt
many others are):

https://www.newswest9.com/article/news/verify/coronavirus-verify/cdc-changed-vaccine-definition-more-transparent/

On Tue, Dec 20, 2022 at 12:42 PM John Clark 
wrote:



On Tue, Dec 20, 2022 at 11:39 AM spudboy100 via Everything
List  wrote:

/
> Statically we are looking at 1/100 of vaccine recipie

Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-21 Thread John Clark

On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 10:44 AM  wrote:

*> What I never ever would have done is ban fracking and drilling like Joey
> done, *


You keep repeating that lie even though, as I pointed out before, Joe Biden
has *NOT* banned fracking. And you keep repeating that we really should
start investigating the safety of the Covid vaccine while ignoring the fact
that because 12.7 billion shots have already been given, the safety of the
vaccine is already known with greater accuracy than any other medication in
the history of the world.  But I guess you've decided to do what Donald
Trump does and figure if you just keep repeating the same lie over and over
again eventually people are going to start to believe it.

John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis


hmu


> oyu
>
> 2de
>
>
> How magnanimous of you to volunteer for this vitally important activity!
> However, given the fact that 12.7 billion shots have already been given
> don't you imagine this has already been done, and done many many times by
> people with vastly greater knowledge and experience with the complex
> science of statistics than you have, in fact even greater than the
> mathematical knowledge that the wonderful Ron DeSantis has?
>
>
> > *Personally, I hope there is nothing to the mRNA accusation.*
>
>
> Of course there is nothing to the ignorant mRNA accusations, but that
> doesn't matter because the accusations will *NEVER *stop, not as long as
> the world is full of right wing anti-science semi-illiterates, just as the
> accusations that the moon landing was faked will never stop, or that a
> crashed interstellar flying saucer has been in a secret military base in
> Roswell New Mexico for 75 years, or that Jewish space lasers cause forest
> fires. This is because a belief that did not come into existence by reason
> cannot be destroyed by reason.
>
>
> ojm
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv1J90bSzdbc-ERa0e%2BpUuomEVUFrZk9BuOkihKbtFZtBQ%40mail.gmail.com
> 
> .
>

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Re: Death, science, and politics

Nada. If Joe Joe or Governor Newsome of Cali pursued this as policy (A governor 
can just order the release of info) but governors cannot without a court order, 
I'd have been supportive, si? This is why I diverge from your personality thing 
driven by ideology, and stress policy as my focus. You don't see me bitching 
about Joe's policy on Ukraine do ya? 
For example, I am much more intense upon EV's and Hybrids, driven by solar with 
a charging infrastructure (new), than either Newsome or Joey. Why? I see this 
as a way out from under financing the Putin war machine. Which along with Xi, I 
view as a existential threat. 
What I never ever would have done is ban fracking and drilling like Joey done, 
from Jan 22nd, 2021, using the Bureau of Land Management. Why? Because you 
don't take out the old system without have a new one in ready to go! You don't 
take out a patients' bad heart without having a donor heart ready to go in. 
This is exactly what Joe Joe did. 
He simply wants to please environmental Green bozos that fund your party. Tom 
Steyer would be one. 

-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: spudboy...@aol.com
Cc: everything-list@googlegroups.com ; 
meekerbr...@gmail.com 
Sent: Wed, Dec 21, 2022 10:05 am
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 9:20 AM  wrote:

> So, you are indicating you are incurious about a mandated drug because it 
> offends your political views?

No, it indicates I am incurious about YOUR medical opinions and advice because 
they are entirely determined by your political views as is your worldview about 
the very nature of reality itself. For you everything boils down to politics, 
and politics boils down to nothing but just figuring out who bribed who. It's 
interesting, cynics and very naïve people have a lot in common, one believes 
nothing anybody says and the other believes everything everybody says, so 
neither needs to use any brain power whatsoever. 

> Golly, something like this may save lives. Naw! The Fauch has ruled this 
> off-limits. Or was it Wollensky? If I was them, I would not be opposed to the 
> search for any reactions from the vaccines, unless they themselves were 
> involved with Pfizer & Moderna policies or a cover up? Then, its lawyer-up!

I would say that over the last 2 years the 3 greatest heroes have been Dr. 
Fauci, Pfizer, and Moderna, millions of people who are now alive would be dead 
without them, and yet those are the ones you choose to demonize. And I have no 
idea who "Wollensky" is, but if you don't like him then he's probably a pretty 
fine fellow. 
  John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
oyu
2de

How magnanimous of you to volunteer for this vitally important activity!  
However, given the fact that 12.7 billion shots have already been given don't 
you imagine this has already been done, and done many many times by people with 
vastly greater knowledge and experience with the complex science of statistics 
than you have, in fact even greater than the mathematical knowledge that the 
wonderful Ron DeSantis has?

> Personally, I hope there is nothing to the mRNA accusation.

Of course there is nothing to the ignorant mRNA accusations, but that doesn't 
matter because the accusations will NEVER stop, not as long as the world is 
full of right wing anti-science semi-illiterates, just as the accusations that 
the moon landing was faked will never stop, or that a crashed interstellar 
flying saucer has been in a secret military base in Roswell New Mexico for 75 
years, or that Jewish space lasers cause forest fires. This is because a belief 
that did not come into existence by reason cannot be destroyed by reason. 

ojm

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Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-21 Thread John Clark

On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 9:20 AM  wrote:

*> So, you are indicating you are incurious about a mandated drug because
> it offends your political views?*
>

No, it indicates I am *incurious* about YOUR medical opinions and advice
because they are entirely determined by your political views as is your
worldview about the very nature of reality itself. For you everything boils
down to politics, and politics boils down to nothing but just figuring out
who bribed who. It's interesting, cynics and very naïve people have a lot
in common, one believes nothing anybody says and the other believes
everything everybody says, so neither needs to use any brain power
whatsoever.

*> Golly, something like this may save lives. Naw! The Fauch has ruled this
> off-limits. Or was it Wollensky? If I was them, I would not be opposed to
> the search for any reactions from the vaccines, unless they themselves were
> involved with Pfizer & Moderna policies or a cover up? Then, its lawyer-up!*


I would say that over the last 2 years the 3 greatest heroes have been Dr.
Fauci, Pfizer, and Moderna, millions of people who are now alive would be
dead without them, and yet those are the ones you choose to demonize. And I
have no idea who "Wollensky" is, but if you don't like him then he's
probably a pretty fine fellow.

  John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis

oyu

2de


> How magnanimous of you to volunteer for this vitally important activity!
> However, given the fact that 12.7 billion shots have already been given
> don't you imagine this has already been done, and done many many times by
> people with vastly greater knowledge and experience with the complex
> science of statistics than you have, in fact even greater than the
> mathematical knowledge that the wonderful Ron DeSantis has?
>
>
> > *Personally, I hope there is nothing to the mRNA accusation.*
>
>
> Of course there is nothing to the ignorant mRNA accusations, but that
> doesn't matter because the accusations will *NEVER *stop, not as long as
> the world is full of right wing anti-science semi-illiterates, just as the
> accusations that the moon landing was faked will never stop, or that a
> crashed interstellar flying saucer has been in a secret military base in
> Roswell New Mexico for 75 years, or that Jewish space lasers cause forest
> fires. This is because a belief that did not come into existence by reason
> cannot be destroyed by reason.
>
>
> ojm
>
>
>

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Re: Death, science, and politics

Nothing is 100% safe, no. But avoiding medicines that are safe for 99% and 
unsafe for someone's personal genetic expression, may make a drug 99 % unsafe, 
for them. Since, you're doing this out of politics and not medicine, I will 
opine that you will neither keep the Florida guv out of office, nor, will a 
grand jury boost his popularity. 
So, you're seriously unconcerned if some, few, croak, just so Joe's funder$ can 
continue to kick cash to the DNC? 
I'd be funding them also, to beat diseases. In fact, were I your humble 
dictator, I'd be printing trillion$ to get a return of the research 
(investments) for medicine, space, and energy. Would my evil scheme work out? I 
am thinking yeah, call it a guess.
Trumpilly, Grumpilly  Yours!Spud
P.S. Where will you head if Donny makes it back to power in 2024? 

-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tue, Dec 20, 2022 2:07 pm
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

On Tue, Dec 20, 2022 at 1:48 PM Dylan Distasio  wrote:

> I'd point out that the large majority of people in the US now have concerns 
> over these particular vaccines

If they do it's because of constant scaremongering about the safety of the mRNA 
 vaccine from right wing anti-science religious nitwits who think "The 
Flintstones" is a documentary. And I'd like to point out that thanks to the 
Covid mRNA vaccine having been given 12.7 billion times we now have superb 
information about its safety and, although NOTHING is 100% safe and even if 
there was you could never prove it, without a doubt it is one of the safest 
medications in the history of the world, it has already saved millions of lives 
and unless the epidemic of stupidity and misinformation intensifies it will 
save many millions more.  

 John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
rnw

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Re: Death, science, and politics

So, you are indicating you are incurious about a mandated drug because it 
offends your political views? That is not following the science. We may have 
zero choice but to insist on injections whether it kills somebody or not? I 
would support the finding out of the truth, whatever the drawback. But then, I 
am not funding our dear Government. Not with fat cash donations that they 
simply adore. 
I never had heard that the Fla governor is vaccine averse. Only, he supports a 
grand jury looking into illegalities. Do you also oppose grand juries looking 
into cars that are built unsafe, at any speed? And, I had you pegged as a Ralph 
Nader fan! 
Meanwhile, Vax Heads, I follow the science and stumbled across this interesting 
article last night-
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20221220/Research-uncovers-a-new-way-to-boost-the-effectiveness-of-RNA-therapies.aspx
Golly, something like this may save lives. Naw! The Fauch has ruled this 
off-limits. Or was it Wollensky? 
If I was them, I would not be opposed to the search for any reactions from the 
vaccines, unless they themselves were involved with Pfizer & Moderna policies 
or a cover up? Then, its lawyer-up!

-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: spudboy...@aol.com
Cc: everything-list@googlegroups.com ; 
meekerbr...@gmail.com 
Sent: Wed, Dec 21, 2022 7:38 am
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

On Tue, Dec 20, 2022 at 7:22 PM  wrote:

> I am willing to investigate to see if there are any problems with mRNA 
> vaccines.

How magnanimous of you to volunteer for this vitally important activity!  
However, given the fact that 12.7 billion shots have already been given don't 
you imagine this has already been done, and done many many times by people with 
vastly greater knowledge and experience with the complex science of statistics 
than you have, in fact even greater than the mathematical knowledge that the 
wonderful Ron DeSantis has?

> Personally, I hope there is nothing to the mRNA accusation.

Of course there is nothing to the ignorant mRNA accusations, but that doesn't 
matter because the accusations will NEVER stop, not as long as the world is 
full of right wing anti-science semi-illiterates, just as the accusations that 
the moon landing was faked will never stop, or that a crashed interstellar 
flying saucer has been in a secret military base in Roswell New Mexico for 75 
years, or that Jewish space lasers cause forest fires. This is because a belief 
that did not come into existence by reason cannot be destroyed by reason. 
  John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
ojm

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Re: Death, science, and politics

Well stated. I am not advocating vaccine aversion, and simply am deeply 
concerned about those individuals forced by government edict IF they have a 
vulnerability to the mRNA vaccines or anything else. Forcing someone to perish 
is the concern here. Taking the vaccines out of ignorance for these people, IF 
there is suppression of evidence, is a concern as well.

-Original Message-
From: Stathis Papaioannou 
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tue, Dec 20, 2022 8:22 pm
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

On Wed, 21 Dec 2022 at 11:57, spudboy100 via Everything List 
 wrote:

I have had the Pfizer shots and advocate these for most of our population. On 
the other hand, if some people have allergic reactions to these shots causing 
clotting and cardiomyopathy, why would anyone sane demand that they take 
medicine that will surely kill them? What kind of people demand loyalty unto 
death, for a public medical policy that doesn't differentiate for example about 
physiological or genetic susceptibility?

Clotting disorders and cardiomyopathy are not allergic reactions. You would not 
know that you would have these problems before you had them, otherwise of 
course you would not have the vaccine. You would have the vaccine because the 
risk of harm from it is a lot less than the risk of harm from the virus. The 
practice of inoculation with active smallpox, which preceded the invention of 
vaccination, carried a risk of severe disease and death, but it was used 
because the risk was still less than infection by respiratory spread.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34908713/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34921468/

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35655235/

Thus, all we need to do to reassure people is the willingness, so far 
undemonstrated by the CDC and NIH and Joey, to fund for testing those who might 
be vulnerable? It may be worth it medically speaking once identified to switch 
to other modalities. Astra-Zenica, the Chinese crap (50% effective) taking 
Paxlovid, masking up? 

-Original Message-
From: Dylan Distasio 
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tue, Dec 20, 2022 1:47 pm
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

I'd point out that the large majority of people in the US now have concerns 
over these particular vaccines based on how public health policy has been 
conducted over the last 2+ years.   You may be disappointed to find out that 
it's not just righty wingnuts who are questioning the reliability and veracity 
of public health agencies due to how they comported themselves, especially now 
that people have the benefit of hindsight.   The CDC in particular has done an 
incredible amount of damage to their previously sterling reputation.
US CDC data show that while about 69% of the US population has completed the 
primary 2-dose vaccine series, only about 14% of people aged 5 and older have 
received the updated booster.

This might have been avoided if public health agencies had avoided allowing 
themselves to be politicized, and been upfront about what they could know with 
certainty throughout this process, and honest enough to admit where things were 
not as clear cut.   
Instead of basing policy that would have a huge impact on businesses and 
people's livelihoods on science, many decisions were made 
arbitrarily:https://www.forbes.com/sites/graisondangor/2021/09/19/cdcs-six-foot-social-distancing-rule-was-arbitrary-says-former-fda-commissioner/?sh=2059263ae8e6

They also disregarded natural immunity in regard to setting policy because it 
would overcomplicate things, and because in their opinion, people were too 
stupid to have a nuanced conversation on it.   

Instead of attempting an honest discussion and allowing those with concerns to 
voice them and potentially be refuted in the public square and in the 
literature, they, in concert, with the mainstream press attempted to squash any 
efforts to do so.   Anyone who expressed any concerns was publicly demonized by 
politicians, public figures, and the press.
It also didn't help that they changed the long standing definition of a vaccine 
(and no, I'm not buying their explanation and I doubt many others are):
https://www.newswest9.com/article/news/verify/coronavirus-verify/cdc-changed-vaccine-definition-more-transparent/

On Tue, Dec 20, 2022 at 12:42 PM John Clark  wrote:

On Tue, Dec 20, 2022 at 11:39 AM spudboy100 via Everything List 
 wrote:

 > Statically we are looking at 1/100 of vaccine recipients. That a lot of 
people sick and then dead.

BULLSHIT! And it is people just like you spreading this sort of quack medical 
advice that is killing people, thousands and thousands of people every fucking 
day. 

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
uty

Such a nice little proggie puppet!
Delightfully cheering.
It looks great for DeSantis. If people oppose him, it won't be for have a gr

Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-21 Thread John Clark

On Tue, Dec 20, 2022 at 7:22 PM  wrote:

*> I am willing to investigate to see if there are any problems with mRNA
> vaccines.*
>

How magnanimous of you to volunteer for this vitally important activity!
However, given the fact that 12.7 billion shots have already been given
don't you imagine this has already been done, and done many many times by
people with vastly greater knowledge and experience with the complex
science of statistics than you have, in fact even greater than the
mathematical knowledge that the wonderful Ron DeSantis has?

> > *Personally, I hope there is nothing to the mRNA accusation.*
>

Of course there is nothing to the ignorant mRNA accusations, but that
doesn't matter because the accusations will *NEVER *stop, not as long as
the world is full of right wing anti-science semi-illiterates, just as the
accusations that the moon landing was faked will never stop, or that a
crashed interstellar flying saucer has been in a secret military base in
Roswell New Mexico for 75 years, or that Jewish space lasers cause forest
fires. This is because a belief that did not come into existence by reason
cannot be destroyed by reason.

  John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis

ojm

>

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Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-20 Thread Jesse Mazer

t  Extropolis
>> <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>
>> uty
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Such a nice little proggie puppet!
>>>
>>> Delightfully cheering.
>>>
>>> It looks great for DeSantis. If people oppose him, it won't be for have
>>> a grand jury look at the malpractices of the Dem party funder$.
>>>
>>> Back to the science article, and we are talking about 2 things.
>>> Statically we are looking at 1/100 of vaccine recipients. That a lot of
>>> people sick and then dead. Secondly, these are young people. who went along
>>> and then died. No pre-screening, just Dem insistence and coercion about
>>> taking the drug. People, including families of those who may have been
>>> killed, will likely seek retribution.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Brent Meeker 
>>> To: spudboy...@aol.com; everything-list@googlegroups.com <
>>> everything-list@googlegroups.com>
>>> Sent: Tue, Dec 20, 2022 2:51 am
>>> Subject: Re: Fwd: Death, science, and politics
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/19/2022 11:08 PM, spudboy...@aol.com wrote:
>>>
>>> The language is Hindi I believe.
>>>
>>>
>>> That's all you've got say about your Champion.
>>>
>>> There are others looking at the vaccines more carefully than you and
>>> John.
>>> Advocacy journalism follows:
>>>
>>> https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/fda-study-covid-vaccine-blood-clot-elderly-et/
>>> Core report:
>>> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X22014931
>>>
>>>
>>> Typical bad medical statistics.  They set a threshold for significance
>>> of 1% false positive, but then applied it to 14 different "outcomes".  If
>>> there's a 1% chance of error that's 99% chance of no error...on each test.
>>> So the probability of finding at least one false positive is 0.99^14=0.869
>>> or 13%.
>>>
>>> And what is the only "outcome" they identified as significant: Pulmonary
>>> embolism in in the inpatient setting.  In other words vaccinated persons
>>> who were also inpatients had a significantly higher risk of PE.  Don't
>>> suppose it could have anything to do with lying prone a lot, or being in a
>>> hospital with other sick people.
>>>
>>>
>>> Counter argument-
>>> DeSantis' anti-vax grand jury petition suggests that a rise in
>>> cardiac-related mortality in young people might be caused by vaccines. Of
>>> course, if you actually look at the study, you'll see—shockingly—that the
>>> rise predates vaccination. Because it's mostly due to COVID itself.
>>>
>>> I am willing to find out whether it (the vax) does or does not present a
>>> danger to a minority of the public.
>>>
>>> Define "danger".  One in chance in a thousand?  ten thousand?  hundred
>>> thousand?
>>>
>>>
>>> Bhattacharya is a prof at Stanford and that is one thing neither you nor
>>> I are.
>>>
>>> And I know statistics which neither you nor he do.
>>>
>>>
>>> For the democrat practice of character assassination (which work great
>>> for your team members but not ours) there is Professor Makary, at Johns
>>> Hopkins, who sides with Bhattacharya.
>>>
>>>
>>> Oh well, now I'm really impressed there's some other guy who's taken
>>> sides.  Too bad nobody has an argument or data.
>>>
>>>
>>> @JohnsHopkins <https://twitter.com/JohnsHopkins>
>>> professor,
>>> @theNAMedicine <https://twitter.com/theNAMedicine>
>>> member,
>>> @harvardchansph <https://twitter.com/harvardchansph>
>>> alum, author of 2 NYT bestselling books. Honest debate is healthy, I can
>>> be persuaded
>>>
>>>
>>> "Lancet study of Covid+ and - teens found “poor well-being, fatigue &
>>> Long COVID were broadly similar” but loneliness increased steadily. Take
>>> home message—Long-covid is not the mass disabling complication that has
>>> permanently damaged a generation of children, social isolation is."
>>> All I want is to find out so as to save lives.
>>>
>>>
>>> If that were true you'd be advocating that all the unvaccinated
>>> Trumpkins get vaccinations.
>>>
>>> It would seem that practicing pub

Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-20 Thread Brent Meeker





On 12/20/2022 4:08 PM, Dylan Distasio wrote:
You can stay in the bubble if you'd like, and ignore the shift in 
public perception, but it's clearly real, and is not just a fringe 
when only 14% of the US population has gotten the latest booster.   If 
people actually had a large amount of confidence in public authorities 
and actually believed what the proclaimed severity of the risk of 
staying unboosted was, there would certainly be a lot more than 14% 
taking boosters out of self interest.   Most people did trust them 
initially which is why ~70% of the population took the first series.


And the reason for this mistrust is people in the echo chambers raising 
questions whose answers they can't understand.


Brent

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Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-20 Thread Stathis Papaioannou

On Wed, 21 Dec 2022 at 11:57, spudboy100 via Everything List <
everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> I have had the Pfizer shots and advocate these for most of our population.
> On the other hand, if some people have allergic reactions to these shots
> causing clotting and cardiomyopathy, why would anyone sane demand that they
> take medicine that will surely kill them? What kind of people demand
> loyalty unto death, for a public medical policy that doesn't differentiate
> for example about physiological or genetic susceptibility?
>

Clotting disorders and cardiomyopathy are not allergic reactions. You would
not know that you would have these problems before you had them, otherwise
of course you would not have the vaccine. You would have the vaccine
because the risk of harm from it is a lot less than the risk of harm from
the virus. The practice of inoculation with active smallpox, which preceded
the invention of vaccination, carried a risk of severe disease and death,
but it was used because the risk was still less than infection by
respiratory spread.


>
> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34908713/
>
> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34921468/
>
>
> https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html
>
> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35655235/
>
> Thus, all we need to do to reassure people is the willingness, so far
> undemonstrated by the CDC and NIH and Joey, to fund for testing those who
> might be vulnerable? It may be worth it medically speaking once identified
> to switch to other modalities. Astra-Zenica, the Chinese crap (50%
> effective) taking Paxlovid, masking up?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Dylan Distasio 
> To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Tue, Dec 20, 2022 1:47 pm
> Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics
>
> I'd point out that the large majority of people in the US now have
> concerns over these particular vaccines based on how public health policy
> has been conducted over the last 2+ years.   You may be disappointed to
> find out that it's not just righty wingnuts who are questioning the
> reliability and veracity of public health agencies due to how they
> comported themselves, especially now that people have the benefit of
> hindsight.   The CDC in particular has done an incredible amount of damage
> to their previously sterling reputation.
>
> US CDC data show that while about 69% of the US population has completed
> the primary 2-dose vaccine series, only about 14% of people aged 5 and
> older have received the updated booster.
>
> This might have been avoided if public health agencies had avoided
> allowing themselves to be politicized, and been upfront about what they
> could know with certainty throughout this process, and honest enough to
> admit where things were not as clear cut.
>
> Instead of basing policy that would have a huge impact on businesses and
> people's livelihoods on science, many decisions were made arbitrarily:
>
> https://www.forbes.com/sites/graisondangor/2021/09/19/cdcs-six-foot-social-distancing-rule-was-arbitrary-says-former-fda-commissioner/?sh=2059263ae8e6
>
> They also disregarded natural immunity in regard to setting policy because
> it would overcomplicate things, and because in their opinion, people were
> too stupid to have a nuanced conversation on it.
>
> Instead of attempting an honest discussion and allowing those with
> concerns to voice them and potentially be refuted in the public square and
> in the literature, they, in concert, with the mainstream press attempted to
> squash any efforts to do so.   Anyone who expressed any concerns was
> publicly demonized by politicians, public figures, and the press.
>
> It also didn't help that they changed the long standing definition of a
> vaccine (and no, I'm not buying their explanation and I doubt many others
> are):
>
> https://www.newswest9.com/article/news/verify/coronavirus-verify/cdc-changed-vaccine-definition-more-transparent/
>
> On Tue, Dec 20, 2022 at 12:42 PM John Clark  wrote:
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 20, 2022 at 11:39 AM spudboy100 via Everything List <
> everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>
> * > Statically we are looking at 1/100 of vaccine recipients. That a lot
> of people sick and then dead.*
>
>
> *BULLSHIT! *And it is people just like you spreading this sort of quack
> medical advice that is killing people, thousands and thousands of people
> every fucking day.
>
> John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis
> <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>
> uty
>
>
>
>
> Such a nice little proggie puppet!
>
> Delightfully cheering.
>
> It looks great for DeSantis. If p

Re: Death, science, and politics

I have had the Pfizer shots and advocate these for most of our population. On 
the other hand, if some people have allergic reactions to these shots causing 
clotting and cardiomyopathy, why would anyone sane demand that they take 
medicine that will surely kill them? What kind of people demand loyalty unto 
death, for a public medical policy that doesn't differentiate for example about 
physiological or genetic susceptibility? 
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34908713/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34921468/

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35655235/

Thus, all we need to do to reassure people is the willingness, so far 
undemonstrated by the CDC and NIH and Joey, to fund for testing those who might 
be vulnerable? It may be worth it medically speaking once identified to switch 
to other modalities. Astra-Zenica, the Chinese crap (50% effective) taking 
Paxlovid, masking up? 





-Original Message-
From: Dylan Distasio 
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tue, Dec 20, 2022 1:47 pm
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

I'd point out that the large majority of people in the US now have concerns 
over these particular vaccines based on how public health policy has been 
conducted over the last 2+ years.   You may be disappointed to find out that 
it's not just righty wingnuts who are questioning the reliability and veracity 
of public health agencies due to how they comported themselves, especially now 
that people have the benefit of hindsight.   The CDC in particular has done an 
incredible amount of damage to their previously sterling reputation.
US CDC data show that while about 69% of the US population has completed the 
primary 2-dose vaccine series, only about 14% of people aged 5 and older have 
received the updated booster.

This might have been avoided if public health agencies had avoided allowing 
themselves to be politicized, and been upfront about what they could know with 
certainty throughout this process, and honest enough to admit where things were 
not as clear cut.   
Instead of basing policy that would have a huge impact on businesses and 
people's livelihoods on science, many decisions were made 
arbitrarily:https://www.forbes.com/sites/graisondangor/2021/09/19/cdcs-six-foot-social-distancing-rule-was-arbitrary-says-former-fda-commissioner/?sh=2059263ae8e6

They also disregarded natural immunity in regard to setting policy because it 
would overcomplicate things, and because in their opinion, people were too 
stupid to have a nuanced conversation on it.   

Instead of attempting an honest discussion and allowing those with concerns to 
voice them and potentially be refuted in the public square and in the 
literature, they, in concert, with the mainstream press attempted to squash any 
efforts to do so.   Anyone who expressed any concerns was publicly demonized by 
politicians, public figures, and the press.
It also didn't help that they changed the long standing definition of a vaccine 
(and no, I'm not buying their explanation and I doubt many others are):
https://www.newswest9.com/article/news/verify/coronavirus-verify/cdc-changed-vaccine-definition-more-transparent/

On Tue, Dec 20, 2022 at 12:42 PM John Clark  wrote:



On Tue, Dec 20, 2022 at 11:39 AM spudboy100 via Everything List 
 wrote:


 > Statically we are looking at 1/100 of vaccine recipients. That a lot of 
people sick and then dead.

BULLSHIT! And it is people just like you spreading this sort of quack medical 
advice that is killing people, thousands and thousands of people every fucking 
day. 

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
uty




Such a nice little proggie puppet!
Delightfully cheering.
It looks great for DeSantis. If people oppose him, it won't be for have a grand 
jury look at the malpractices of the Dem party funder$.
Back to the science article, and we are talking about 2 things.  Statically we 
are looking at 1/100 of vaccine recipients. That a lot of people sick and then 
dead. Secondly, these are young people. who went along and then died. No 
pre-screening, just Dem insistence and coercion about taking the drug. People, 
including families of those who may have been killed, will likely seek 
retribution. 
 


-Original Message-
From: Brent Meeker 
To: spudboy...@aol.com; everything-list@googlegroups.com 

Sent: Tue, Dec 20, 2022 2:51 am
Subject: Re: Fwd: Death, science, and politics

  
 
 On 12/19/2022 11:08 PM, spudboy...@aol.com wrote:
  
 The language is Hindi I believe. 
  
 
 That's all you've got say about your Champion.
 
 
  There are others looking at the vaccines more carefully than you and John. 
Advocacy journalism follows: 
https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/fda-study-covid-vaccine-blood-clot-elderly-et/
 Corereport: 
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X22014931  
 
 Typical bad medical statistics.  They set a thresh

Re: Death, science, and politics

I am willing to investigate to see if there are any problems with mRNA 
vaccines. If not, excellent. If there are, I want to know? You don't wish to 
know is your thing. What you started as a dem-loyalty post back-fired as it 
does outside the venue of this wee mailing list, thinking that people will line 
up with you against DeSantis is what this is all about. 
People want to know the medical truth. If you think this hating on DeSantis 
will ensure another 4 years for Joey, knock yourself out. Convincing Americans 
that that shouldn't have accurate medical knowledge won't go over well. 
Personally, I hope there is nothing to the mRNA accusation. Because it makes 
life easier.  

-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Cc: meekerbr...@gmail.com 
Sent: Tue, Dec 20, 2022 12:41 pm
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics



On Tue, Dec 20, 2022 at 11:39 AM spudboy100 via Everything List 
 wrote:


 > Statically we are looking at 1/100 of vaccine recipients. That a lot of 
people sick and then dead.

BULLSHIT! And it is people just like you spreading this sort of quack medical 
advice that is killing people, thousands and thousands of people every fucking 
day. 

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
uty




Such a nice little proggie puppet!
Delightfully cheering.
It looks great for DeSantis. If people oppose him, it won't be for have a grand 
jury look at the malpractices of the Dem party funder$.
Back to the science article, and we are talking about 2 things.  Statically we 
are looking at 1/100 of vaccine recipients. That a lot of people sick and then 
dead. Secondly, these are young people. who went along and then died. No 
pre-screening, just Dem insistence and coercion about taking the drug. People, 
including families of those who may have been killed, will likely seek 
retribution. 
 


-Original Message-
From: Brent Meeker 
To: spudboy...@aol.com; everything-list@googlegroups.com 

Sent: Tue, Dec 20, 2022 2:51 am
Subject: Re: Fwd: Death, science, and politics

  
 
 On 12/19/2022 11:08 PM, spudboy...@aol.com wrote:
  
 The language is Hindi I believe. 
  
 
 That's all you've got say about your Champion.
 
 
  There are others looking at the vaccines more carefully than you and John. 
Advocacy journalism follows: 
https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/fda-study-covid-vaccine-blood-clot-elderly-et/
 Corereport: 
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X22014931  
 
 Typical bad medical statistics.  They set a threshold for significance of 1% 
false positive, but then applied it to 14 different "outcomes".  If there's a 
1% chance of error that's 99% chance of no error...on each test. So the 
probability of finding at least one false positive is 0.99^14=0.869 or 13%.  
 
 And what is the only "outcome" they identified as significant: Pulmonary 
embolism in in the inpatient setting.  In other words vaccinated persons who 
were also inpatients had a significantly higher risk of PE.  Don't suppose it 
could have anything to do with lying prone a lot, or being in a hospital with 
other sick people.
 
 
  
  Counter argument- DeSantis' anti-vax grand jury petition suggests that a rise 
in cardiac-related mortality in young people might be caused by vaccines. Of 
course, if you actually look at the study, you'll see—shockingly—that the rise 
predates vaccination. Because it's mostly due to COVID itself.
  
  I am willing to find out whether it (the vax) does or does not present a 
danger to a minority of the public. 
   
 Define "danger".  One in chance in a thousand?  ten thousand?  hundred 
thousand?
 
 
  
  Bhattacharya is a prof at Stanford and that is one thing neither you nor I 
are.  
   
 And I know statistics which neither you nor he do.
 
 
  
  For the democrat practice of character assassination (which work great for 
your team members but not ours) there is Professor Makary, at Johns Hopkins, 
who sides with Bhattacharya. 
   
 
 Oh well, now I'm really impressed there's some other guy who's taken sides.  
Too bad nobody has an argument or data.
 
 
  
   @JohnsHopkins  professor,  @theNAMedicine  member,  @harvardchansph  alum, 
author of 2 NYT bestselling books. Honest debate is healthy, I can be persuaded
  
  
  "Lancet study of Covid+ and - teens found “poor well-being, fatigue & Long 
COVID were broadly similar” but loneliness increased steadily. Take home 
message—Long-covid is not the mass disabling complication that has permanently 
damaged a generation of children, social isolation is."
   All I want is to find out so as to save lives.   
 
 If that were true you'd be advocating that all the unvaccinated Trumpkins get 
vaccinations.
 
 
  It would seem that practicing public health should be adjustable to 
discoveries in medical science.   Seems sensible at first blush. Unless there 
are underlying financial or obsessive-compulsive disorder

Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-20 Thread Dylan Distasio

ty
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Such a nice little proggie puppet!
>>>
>>> Delightfully cheering.
>>>
>>> It looks great for DeSantis. If people oppose him, it won't be for have
>>> a grand jury look at the malpractices of the Dem party funder$.
>>>
>>> Back to the science article, and we are talking about 2 things.
>>> Statically we are looking at 1/100 of vaccine recipients. That a lot of
>>> people sick and then dead. Secondly, these are young people. who went along
>>> and then died. No pre-screening, just Dem insistence and coercion about
>>> taking the drug. People, including families of those who may have been
>>> killed, will likely seek retribution.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Brent Meeker 
>>> To: spudboy...@aol.com; everything-list@googlegroups.com <
>>> everything-list@googlegroups.com>
>>> Sent: Tue, Dec 20, 2022 2:51 am
>>> Subject: Re: Fwd: Death, science, and politics
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/19/2022 11:08 PM, spudboy...@aol.com wrote:
>>>
>>> The language is Hindi I believe.
>>>
>>>
>>> That's all you've got say about your Champion.
>>>
>>> There are others looking at the vaccines more carefully than you and
>>> John.
>>> Advocacy journalism follows:
>>>
>>> https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/fda-study-covid-vaccine-blood-clot-elderly-et/
>>> Core report:
>>> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X22014931
>>>
>>>
>>> Typical bad medical statistics.  They set a threshold for significance
>>> of 1% false positive, but then applied it to 14 different "outcomes".  If
>>> there's a 1% chance of error that's 99% chance of no error...on each test.
>>> So the probability of finding at least one false positive is 0.99^14=0.869
>>> or 13%.
>>>
>>> And what is the only "outcome" they identified as significant: Pulmonary
>>> embolism in in the inpatient setting.  In other words vaccinated persons
>>> who were also inpatients had a significantly higher risk of PE.  Don't
>>> suppose it could have anything to do with lying prone a lot, or being in a
>>> hospital with other sick people.
>>>
>>>
>>> Counter argument-
>>> DeSantis' anti-vax grand jury petition suggests that a rise in
>>> cardiac-related mortality in young people might be caused by vaccines. Of
>>> course, if you actually look at the study, you'll see—shockingly—that the
>>> rise predates vaccination. Because it's mostly due to COVID itself.
>>>
>>> I am willing to find out whether it (the vax) does or does not present a
>>> danger to a minority of the public.
>>>
>>> Define "danger".  One in chance in a thousand?  ten thousand?  hundred
>>> thousand?
>>>
>>>
>>> Bhattacharya is a prof at Stanford and that is one thing neither you nor
>>> I are.
>>>
>>> And I know statistics which neither you nor he do.
>>>
>>>
>>> For the democrat practice of character assassination (which work great
>>> for your team members but not ours) there is Professor Makary, at Johns
>>> Hopkins, who sides with Bhattacharya.
>>>
>>>
>>> Oh well, now I'm really impressed there's some other guy who's taken
>>> sides.  Too bad nobody has an argument or data.
>>>
>>>
>>> @JohnsHopkins <https://twitter.com/JohnsHopkins>
>>> professor,
>>> @theNAMedicine <https://twitter.com/theNAMedicine>
>>> member,
>>> @harvardchansph <https://twitter.com/harvardchansph>
>>> alum, author of 2 NYT bestselling books. Honest debate is healthy, I can
>>> be persuaded
>>>
>>>
>>> "Lancet study of Covid+ and - teens found “poor well-being, fatigue &
>>> Long COVID were broadly similar” but loneliness increased steadily. Take
>>> home message—Long-covid is not the mass disabling complication that has
>>> permanently damaged a generation of children, social isolation is."
>>> All I want is to find out so as to save lives.
>>>
>>>
>>> If that were true you'd be advocating that all the unvaccinated
>>> Trumpkins get vaccinations.
>>>
>>> It would seem that practicing public health should be adjustable to
>>> discoveries in medical science.
>

Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-20 Thread Brent Meeker




On 12/20/2022 10:47 AM, Dylan Distasio wrote:
I'd point out that the large majority of people in the US now have 
concerns over these particular vaccines based on how public health 
policy has been conducted over the last 2+ years.   You may be 
disappointed to find out that it's not just righty wingnuts who are 
questioning the reliability and veracity of public health agencies due 
to how they comported themselves, especially now that people have the 
benefit of hindsight.   The CDC in particular has done an incredible 
amount of damage to their previously sterling reputation.


US CDC data show that while about 69% of the US population has 
completed the primary 2-dose vaccine series, only about 14% of people 
aged 5 and older have received the updated booster.


This might have been avoided if public health agencies had avoided 
allowing themselves to be politicized, and been upfront about what 
they could know with certainty throughout this process, and honest 
enough to admit where things were not as clear cut.


Instead of basing policy that would have a huge impact on businesses 
and people's livelihoods on science, many decisions were made arbitrarily:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/graisondangor/2021/09/19/cdcs-six-foot-social-distancing-rule-was-arbitrary-says-former-fda-commissioner/?sh=2059263ae8e6


Nonsense.  This is trolling.  That decision was made to mandate 
distancing was NOT arbitrary and is backed by the simplest science of 
any airborne disease.  That the distance was 6ft instead of 7ft or 6.5ft 
is obviously and necessarily arbitrary.  It would be ridiculous to delay 
such a mandate until a transmission rate versus distance  could be 
determined for different environments and then make an "ARBITRARY" 
decision about whether a probability of transmission of 0.001 is 
acceptable versus 0.0001?




They also disregarded natural immunity in regard to setting policy 
because it would overcomplicate things, and because in their opinion, 
people were too stupid to have a nuanced conversation on it.


And people apparently are.  They're too stupid to understand what 
"aribitrary" means.




Instead of attempting an honest discussion and allowing those with 
concerns to voice them and potentially be refuted

in the public square and in the literature,


On Twitter on 8Chan.  Yeah that'll work out well.

they, in concert, with the mainstream press attempted to squash any 
efforts to do so.


"Squash" in the sense of not printing a lot of anti-vax propaganda that 
was "just asking questions".


Anyone who expressed any concerns was publicly demonized by 
politicians, public figures, and the press.


Yes, because experts that we hired to make these decisions knew a 
helluva lot more about it than politicians, celebrities, and reporters.  
That's why we gave them the power to make decisions. People who 
"expressed" concerns were mostly right wing trolls.


Brent



It also didn't help that they changed the long standing definition of 
a vaccine (and no, I'm not buying their explanation and I doubt many 
others are):

https://www.newswest9.com/article/news/verify/coronavirus-verify/cdc-changed-vaccine-definition-more-transparent/

On Tue, Dec 20, 2022 at 12:42 PM John Clark  wrote:



On Tue, Dec 20, 2022 at 11:39 AM spudboy100 via Everything List
 wrote:

/
> Statically we are looking at 1/100 of vaccine recipients.
That a lot of people sick and then dead./


*BULLSHIT! *And it is people just like you spreading this sort of
quack medical advice that is killing people, thousands and
thousands of people every fucking day.

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at Extropolis
<https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>
uty




Such a nice little proggie puppet!

Delightfully cheering.

It looks great for DeSantis. If people oppose him, it won't be
for have a grand jury look at the malpractices of the Dem
party funder$.

Back to the science article, and we are talking about 2
things.  Statically we are looking at 1/100 of vaccine
recipients. That a lot of people sick and then dead. Secondly,
these are young people. who went along and then died. No
pre-screening, just Dem insistence and coercion about taking
the drug. People, including families of those who may have
been killed, will likely seek retribution.




-Original Message-
From: Brent Meeker 
To: spudboy...@aol.com; everything-list@googlegroups.com

    Sent: Tue, Dec 20, 2022 2:51 am
Subject: Re: Fwd: Death, science, and politics



On 12/19/2022 11:08 PM, spudboy...@aol.com wrote:

The language is Hindi I believe.


That's all you've got say about your Champion.


There are others looking at the vaccines more carefully than
you an

Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-20 Thread John Clark

On Tue, Dec 20, 2022 at 1:48 PM Dylan Distasio  wrote:

> *I'd point out that the large majority of people in the US now have
> concerns over these particular vaccines*
>

If they do it's because of constant scaremongering about the safety of the
mRNA vaccine from right wing anti-science religious nitwits who think "The
Flintstones" is a documentary. And I'd like to point out that thanks to the
Covid mRNA vaccine having been given 12.7 billion times we now have superb
information about its safety and, although NOTHING is 100% safe and even if
there was you could never prove it, without a doubt it is one of the safest
medications in the history of the world, it has already saved millions of
lives and unless the epidemic of stupidity and misinformation intensifies
it will save many millions more.

John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis

rnw

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Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-20 Thread Dylan Distasio

I'd point out that the large majority of people in the US now have concerns
over these particular vaccines based on how public health policy has been
conducted over the last 2+ years.   You may be disappointed to find out
that it's not just righty wingnuts who are questioning the reliability and
veracity of public health agencies due to how they comported themselves,
especially now that people have the benefit of hindsight.   The CDC in
particular has done an incredible amount of damage to their previously
sterling reputation.

US CDC data show that while about 69% of the US population has completed
the primary 2-dose vaccine series, only about 14% of people aged 5 and
older have received the updated booster.

This might have been avoided if public health agencies had avoided allowing
themselves to be politicized, and been upfront about what they could know
with certainty throughout this process, and honest enough to admit where
things were not as clear cut.

Instead of basing policy that would have a huge impact on businesses and
people's livelihoods on science, many decisions were made arbitrarily:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/graisondangor/2021/09/19/cdcs-six-foot-social-distancing-rule-was-arbitrary-says-former-fda-commissioner/?sh=2059263ae8e6

They also disregarded natural immunity in regard to setting policy because
it would overcomplicate things, and because in their opinion, people were
too stupid to have a nuanced conversation on it.

Instead of attempting an honest discussion and allowing those with concerns
to voice them and potentially be refuted in the public square and in the
literature, they, in concert, with the mainstream press attempted to squash
any efforts to do so.   Anyone who expressed any concerns was publicly
demonized by politicians, public figures, and the press.

It also didn't help that they changed the long standing definition of a
vaccine (and no, I'm not buying their explanation and I doubt many others
are):
https://www.newswest9.com/article/news/verify/coronavirus-verify/cdc-changed-vaccine-definition-more-transparent/

On Tue, Dec 20, 2022 at 12:42 PM John Clark  wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, Dec 20, 2022 at 11:39 AM spudboy100 via Everything List <
> everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> * > Statically we are looking at 1/100 of vaccine recipients. That a lot
>> of people sick and then dead.*
>
>
> *BULLSHIT! *And it is people just like you spreading this sort of quack
> medical advice that is killing people, thousands and thousands of people
> every fucking day.
>
> John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis
> <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>
> uty
>
>
>
>
> Such a nice little proggie puppet!
>>
>> Delightfully cheering.
>>
>> It looks great for DeSantis. If people oppose him, it won't be for have a
>> grand jury look at the malpractices of the Dem party funder$.
>>
>> Back to the science article, and we are talking about 2 things.
>> Statically we are looking at 1/100 of vaccine recipients. That a lot of
>> people sick and then dead. Secondly, these are young people. who went along
>> and then died. No pre-screening, just Dem insistence and coercion about
>> taking the drug. People, including families of those who may have been
>> killed, will likely seek retribution.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Brent Meeker 
>> To: spudboy...@aol.com; everything-list@googlegroups.com <
>> everything-list@googlegroups.com>
>> Sent: Tue, Dec 20, 2022 2:51 am
>> Subject: Re: Fwd: Death, science, and politics
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/19/2022 11:08 PM, spudboy...@aol.com wrote:
>>
>> The language is Hindi I believe.
>>
>>
>> That's all you've got say about your Champion.
>>
>> There are others looking at the vaccines more carefully than you and
>> John.
>> Advocacy journalism follows:
>>
>> https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/fda-study-covid-vaccine-blood-clot-elderly-et/
>> Core report:
>> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X22014931
>>
>>
>> Typical bad medical statistics.  They set a threshold for significance of
>> 1% false positive, but then applied it to 14 different "outcomes".  If
>> there's a 1% chance of error that's 99% chance of no error...on each test.
>> So the probability of finding at least one false positive is 0.99^14=0.869
>> or 13%.
>>
>> And what is the only "outcome" they identified as significant: Pulmonary
>> embolism in in the inpatient setting.  In other words vaccinated persons
>> who were also inpatients had a significantly higher risk of PE.  Don't
>> suppose it could

Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-20 Thread John Clark

On Tue, Dec 20, 2022 at 11:39 AM spudboy100 via Everything List <
everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote:

>
> * > Statically we are looking at 1/100 of vaccine recipients. That a lot
> of people sick and then dead.*


*BULLSHIT! *And it is people just like you spreading this sort of quack
medical advice that is killing people, thousands and thousands of people
every fucking day.

John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis
<https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>
uty




Such a nice little proggie puppet!
>
> Delightfully cheering.
>
> It looks great for DeSantis. If people oppose him, it won't be for have a
> grand jury look at the malpractices of the Dem party funder$.
>
> Back to the science article, and we are talking about 2 things.
> Statically we are looking at 1/100 of vaccine recipients. That a lot of
> people sick and then dead. Secondly, these are young people. who went along
> and then died. No pre-screening, just Dem insistence and coercion about
> taking the drug. People, including families of those who may have been
> killed, will likely seek retribution.
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Brent Meeker 
> To: spudboy...@aol.com; everything-list@googlegroups.com <
> everything-list@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Tue, Dec 20, 2022 2:51 am
> Subject: Re: Fwd: Death, science, and politics
>
>
>
> On 12/19/2022 11:08 PM, spudboy...@aol.com wrote:
>
> The language is Hindi I believe.
>
>
> That's all you've got say about your Champion.
>
> There are others looking at the vaccines more carefully than you and John.
> Advocacy journalism follows:
>
> https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/fda-study-covid-vaccine-blood-clot-elderly-et/
> Core report:
> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X22014931
>
>
> Typical bad medical statistics.  They set a threshold for significance of
> 1% false positive, but then applied it to 14 different "outcomes".  If
> there's a 1% chance of error that's 99% chance of no error...on each test.
> So the probability of finding at least one false positive is 0.99^14=0.869
> or 13%.
>
> And what is the only "outcome" they identified as significant: Pulmonary
> embolism in in the inpatient setting.  In other words vaccinated persons
> who were also inpatients had a significantly higher risk of PE.  Don't
> suppose it could have anything to do with lying prone a lot, or being in a
> hospital with other sick people.
>
>
> Counter argument-
> DeSantis' anti-vax grand jury petition suggests that a rise in
> cardiac-related mortality in young people might be caused by vaccines. Of
> course, if you actually look at the study, you'll see—shockingly—that the
> rise predates vaccination. Because it's mostly due to COVID itself.
>
> I am willing to find out whether it (the vax) does or does not present a
> danger to a minority of the public.
>
> Define "danger".  One in chance in a thousand?  ten thousand?  hundred
> thousand?
>
>
> Bhattacharya is a prof at Stanford and that is one thing neither you nor I
> are.
>
> And I know statistics which neither you nor he do.
>
>
> For the democrat practice of character assassination (which work great for
> your team members but not ours) there is Professor Makary, at Johns
> Hopkins, who sides with Bhattacharya.
>
>
> Oh well, now I'm really impressed there's some other guy who's taken
> sides.  Too bad nobody has an argument or data.
>
>
> @JohnsHopkins <https://twitter.com/JohnsHopkins>
> professor,
> @theNAMedicine <https://twitter.com/theNAMedicine>
> member,
> @harvardchansph <https://twitter.com/harvardchansph>
> alum, author of 2 NYT bestselling books. Honest debate is healthy, I can
> be persuaded
>
>
> "Lancet study of Covid+ and - teens found “poor well-being, fatigue &
> Long COVID were broadly similar” but loneliness increased steadily. Take
> home message—Long-covid is not the mass disabling complication that has
> permanently damaged a generation of children, social isolation is."
> All I want is to find out so as to save lives.
>
>
> If that were true you'd be advocating that all the unvaccinated Trumpkins
> get vaccinations.
>
> It would seem that practicing public health should be adjustable to
> discoveries in medical science.
> Seems sensible at first blush. Unless there are underlying financial or
> obsessive-compulsive disorders happening?
> Or, more directly to your flavor of your discussions: (Get Ready..)
> If ya want Trump back, this is how ya get More Trump!!! (Laughter placed
> here) :" Bwah ha hah hah hah"
> Meanwhile,in a home in Florida-DeSantis

Re: Death, science, and politics

I like the idea of people getting vaccinated. I oppose coercion, to ensure 
people who receive that vaccinations don't die of adverse reactions. I oppose 
those who appear to demand the vaccinations as a loyalty oath. It's simply a 
matter of identifying whether there is any true to the death rate and it is 
related? Maybe, the vaccinations need to be avoided from the young and reserved 
for older recipients? Or, maybe everyone should get them.
Let us hear from medical studies, and let us also hear from family physicians, 
and emergency room physicians, and yes pathologists. Because they are on the 
receiving end of the mortality. 

-Original Message-
From: Lawrence Crowell 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Tue, Dec 20, 2022 8:41 am
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 5:05:26 AM UTC-6 johnk...@gmail.com wrote:

On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 9:12 PM  wrote:

>People who from an epidemiological point of view, get suppressed by 
>ideologists such as you, John. What are going for, Covid reduction or 
>obedience to the Democratic Party? 

I'm for not knocking a 100,000 ton nuclear aircraft carrier out of commission 
because some jackass is too stupid to get vaccinated.
John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
 As  child I was legally mandated to have vaccinations to go the school. Now 
the mindless right-wingnuts want to allow people who have false ideas about 
these things to have exemptions. Now this has percolated into the military. 
People with trash for brains have been winning the day.
LC-- 
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Re: Death, science, and politics

Your medical commentary also points out the efficacy of a 100K carrier being 
taken down by a 100K PLA missile. 
To the point, you are always continually caviling about the stupid, white, 
Trumpies avoiding the vax and threatening your personal wellbeing. Well, it now 
appears vaccine aversion is not just a white thing.
https://www.reuters.com/world/china/i-dont-trust-it-vaccine-hesitancy-lingers-even-china-covid-cases-surge-2022-12-19/

How did this awful psychological virus spread from Trumpville to China?? You 
don't suppose..?

-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: spudboy...@aol.com
Cc: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Tue, Dec 20, 2022 6:04 am
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 9:12 PM  wrote:

>People who from an epidemiological point of view, get suppressed by 
>ideologists such as you, John. What are going for, Covid reduction or 
>obedience to the Democratic Party? 

I'm for not knocking a 100,000 ton nuclear aircraft carrier out of commission 
because some jackass is too stupid to get vaccinated.
John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
ygh

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Re: Death, science, and politics

Yeah, it was over the top, but it's the best I could find in a quick moment. 
It begs the question why rush to defend big pharma if it does sloppy work and 
insufficiently warned people about adverse reactions? There seems a strong 
likelihood that screening for adverse reactions could be put together. It might 
prevent the deaths of young people. For oldies? Yeah, take the vax. 

-Original Message-
From: Lawrence Crowell 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Tue, Dec 20, 2022 8:43 am
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

This tee-shirt is nauseating.
LC 

On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 1:08:56 AM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

The language is Hindi I believe. 
There are others looking at the vaccines more carefully than you and 
John.Advocacy journalism follows: 
https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/fda-study-covid-vaccine-blood-clot-elderly-et/
Core report: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X22014931
Counter argument-DeSantis' anti-vax grand jury petition suggests that a rise in 
cardiac-related mortality in young people might be caused by vaccines. Of 
course, if you actually look at the study, you'll see—shockingly—that the rise 
predates vaccination. Because it's mostly due to COVID itself.

I am willing to find out whether it (the vax) does or does not present a danger 
to a minority of the public. 
Bhattacharya is a prof at Stanford and that is one thing neither you nor I are. 

For the democrat practice of character assassination (which work great for your 
team members but not ours) there is Professor Makary, at Johns Hopkins, who 
sides with Bhattacharya. 
@JohnsHopkins professor, @theNAMedicine member, @harvardchansph alum, author of 
2 NYT bestselling books. Honest debate is healthy, I can be persuaded

"Lancet study of Covid+ and - teens found “poor well-being, fatigue & Long 
COVID were broadly similar” but loneliness increased steadily. Take home 
message—Long-covid is not the mass disabling complication that has permanently 
damaged a generation of children, social isolation is."

All I want is to find out so as to save lives. It would seem that practicing 
public health should be adjustable to discoveries in medical science. 
Seems sensible at first blush. Unless there are underlying financial or 
obsessive-compulsive disorders happening?
Or, more directly to your flavor of your discussions: (Get Ready..)
If ya want Trump back, this is how ya get More Trump!!! (Laughter placed here) 
:" Bwah ha hah hah hah"
Meanwhile,in a home in Florida-DeSantis Saves, Jesus too? Moses Invests, & 
Elvis Surfs 
Meaning, if you wish to hurt DeSantis and now you may be on Don's side in this, 
you won't hurt his chances by focusing on his grand jury move. He'd have to 
look weak against Newsome of Cal. The only thing Newsome has going for him is 
that he has been far, more, active, than Joe-Kamala on Renewable energy. How 
significant in 24 will this be, we have way of knowing now. As one dem pollster 
said back on November 10th, if DeSantis can beat Trump in the primaries, there 
is no one on the Democratic side that can beat him.

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Re: Death, science, and politics


There's also Makary at Johns Hopkins. I am more concerned that people get 
coerced into taking a vax they medically shouldn't.Your medical speculation 
isn't any better or worse than any other member of the public. I see a increase 
in the death toll of athletes who shouldn't be keeling over. Why? Big pharma 
has tons of defense attorneys at their disposal, so any indictment by 
Floridians looks to be a temporary thing. Studies will be cited and if such 
studies indicate a hazard with the mRNA vaccines, let the truth be told. If 
there is no risk. let that be known. 
I advocate older Trumpkins get vaccinations. I advocate caution with younger 
people. They are the ones dying from an obvious reaction. But let's have the 
biologists do the measuring. If you are good with 1 out of 100 croaking, that's 
on you. I want to hear what physicians have to say, and physicians who work in 
emergency rooms. Pathologists.
What are you afraid of? Or, who are you protecting? 
If you are looking simply for somebody to bring down DeSantis, this won't be 
it. How does it feel to be with Trump politically against your mutual enemy? 




-Original Message-
From: Brent Meeker 
To: spudboy...@aol.com; everything-list@googlegroups.com 

Sent: Tue, Dec 20, 2022 2:51 am
Subject: Re: Fwd: Death, science, and politics

  
 
 On 12/19/2022 11:08 PM, spudboy...@aol.com wrote:
  
 The language is Hindi I believe. 
  
 
 That's all you've got say about your Champion.
 
 
  There are others looking at the vaccines more carefully than you and John. 
Advocacy journalism follows: 
https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/fda-study-covid-vaccine-blood-clot-elderly-et/
 Corereport: 
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X22014931  
 
 Typical bad medical statistics.  They set a threshold for significance of 1% 
false positive, but then applied it to 14 different "outcomes".  If there's a 
1% chance of error that's 99% chance of no error...on each test. So the 
probability of finding at least one false positive is 0.99^14=0.869 or 13%.  
 
 And what is the only "outcome" they identified as significant: Pulmonary 
embolism in in the inpatient setting.  In other words vaccinated persons who 
were also inpatients had a significantly higher risk of PE.  Don't suppose it 
could have anything to do with lying prone a lot, or being in a hospital with 
other sick people.
 
 
  
  Counter argument- DeSantis' anti-vax grand jury petition suggests that a rise 
in cardiac-related mortality in young people might be caused by vaccines. Of 
course, if you actually look at the study, you'll see—shockingly—that the rise 
predates vaccination. Because it's mostly due to COVID itself.
  
  I am willing to find out whether it (the vax) does or does not present a 
danger to a minority of the public. 
   
 Define "danger".  One in chance in a thousand?  ten thousand?  hundred 
thousand?
 
 
  
  Bhattacharya is a prof at Stanford and that is one thing neither you nor I 
are.  
   
 And I know statistics which neither you nor he do.
 
 
  
  For the democrat practice of character assassination (which work great for 
your team members but not ours) there is Professor Makary, at Johns Hopkins, 
who sides with Bhattacharya. 
   
 
 Oh well, now I'm really impressed there's some other guy who's taken sides.  
Too bad nobody has an argument or data.
 
 
  
   @JohnsHopkins  professor,  @theNAMedicine  member,  @harvardchansph  alum, 
author of 2 NYT bestselling books. Honest debate is healthy, I can be persuaded
  
  
  "Lancet study of Covid+ and - teens found “poor well-being, fatigue & Long 
COVID were broadly similar” but loneliness increased steadily. Take home 
message—Long-covid is not the mass disabling complication that has permanently 
damaged a generation of children, social isolation is."
   All I want is to find out so as to save lives.   
 
 If that were true you'd be advocating that all the unvaccinated Trumpkins get 
vaccinations.
 
 
  It would seem that practicing public health should be adjustable to 
discoveries in medical science.   Seems sensible at first blush. Unless there 
are underlying financial or obsessive-compulsive disorders happening?  Or, more 
directly to your flavor of your discussions: (Get Ready..)  If ya want Trump 
back, this is how ya get More Trump!!! (Laughter placed here) :" Bwah ha hah 
hah hah"  Meanwhile,in a home in Florida-DeSantis Saves, Jesus too? Moses 
Invests, & Elvis Surfs   Meaning, if you wish to hurt DeSantis and now you may 
be on Don's side in this, you won't hurt his chances by focusing on his grand 
jury move. He'd have to look weak against Newsome of Cal. The only thing 
Newsome has going for him is that he has been far, more, active, than 
Joe-Kamala on Renewable energy. How significant in 24 will this be, we have way 
of knowing now. As one dem pollster said back on November 10th, if DeSantis can 
beat Trump in the

Re: Death, science, and politics

Such a nice little proggie puppet!
Delightfully cheering.
It looks great for DeSantis. If people oppose him, it won't be for have a grand 
jury look at the malpractices of the Dem party funder$.
Back to the science article, and we are talking about 2 things.  Statically we 
are looking at 1/100 of vaccine recipients. That a lot of people sick and then 
dead. Secondly, these are young people. who went along and then died. No 
pre-screening, just Dem insistence and coercion about taking the drug. People, 
including families of those who may have been killed, will likely seek 
retribution. 
 


-Original Message-
From: Brent Meeker 
To: spudboy...@aol.com; everything-list@googlegroups.com 

Sent: Tue, Dec 20, 2022 2:51 am
Subject: Re: Fwd: Death, science, and politics

  
 
 On 12/19/2022 11:08 PM, spudboy...@aol.com wrote:
  
 The language is Hindi I believe. 
  
 
 That's all you've got say about your Champion.
 
 
  There are others looking at the vaccines more carefully than you and John. 
Advocacy journalism follows: 
https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/fda-study-covid-vaccine-blood-clot-elderly-et/
 Corereport: 
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X22014931  
 
 Typical bad medical statistics.  They set a threshold for significance of 1% 
false positive, but then applied it to 14 different "outcomes".  If there's a 
1% chance of error that's 99% chance of no error...on each test. So the 
probability of finding at least one false positive is 0.99^14=0.869 or 13%.  
 
 And what is the only "outcome" they identified as significant: Pulmonary 
embolism in in the inpatient setting.  In other words vaccinated persons who 
were also inpatients had a significantly higher risk of PE.  Don't suppose it 
could have anything to do with lying prone a lot, or being in a hospital with 
other sick people.
 
 
  
  Counter argument- DeSantis' anti-vax grand jury petition suggests that a rise 
in cardiac-related mortality in young people might be caused by vaccines. Of 
course, if you actually look at the study, you'll see—shockingly—that the rise 
predates vaccination. Because it's mostly due to COVID itself.
  
  I am willing to find out whether it (the vax) does or does not present a 
danger to a minority of the public. 
   
 Define "danger".  One in chance in a thousand?  ten thousand?  hundred 
thousand?
 
 
  
  Bhattacharya is a prof at Stanford and that is one thing neither you nor I 
are.  
   
 And I know statistics which neither you nor he do.
 
 
  
  For the democrat practice of character assassination (which work great for 
your team members but not ours) there is Professor Makary, at Johns Hopkins, 
who sides with Bhattacharya. 
   
 
 Oh well, now I'm really impressed there's some other guy who's taken sides.  
Too bad nobody has an argument or data.
 
 
  
   @JohnsHopkins  professor,  @theNAMedicine  member,  @harvardchansph  alum, 
author of 2 NYT bestselling books. Honest debate is healthy, I can be persuaded
  
  
  "Lancet study of Covid+ and - teens found “poor well-being, fatigue & Long 
COVID were broadly similar” but loneliness increased steadily. Take home 
message—Long-covid is not the mass disabling complication that has permanently 
damaged a generation of children, social isolation is."
   All I want is to find out so as to save lives.   
 
 If that were true you'd be advocating that all the unvaccinated Trumpkins get 
vaccinations.
 
 
  It would seem that practicing public health should be adjustable to 
discoveries in medical science.   Seems sensible at first blush. Unless there 
are underlying financial or obsessive-compulsive disorders happening?  Or, more 
directly to your flavor of your discussions: (Get Ready..)  If ya want Trump 
back, this is how ya get More Trump!!! (Laughter placed here) :" Bwah ha hah 
hah hah"  Meanwhile,in a home in Florida-DeSantis Saves, Jesus too? Moses 
Invests, & Elvis Surfs   Meaning, if you wish to hurt DeSantis and now you may 
be on Don's side in this, you won't hurt his chances by focusing on his grand 
jury move. He'd have to look weak against Newsome of Cal. The only thing 
Newsome has going for him is that he has been far, more, active, than 
Joe-Kamala on Renewable energy. How significant in 24 will this be, we have way 
of knowing now. As one dem pollster said back on November 10th, if DeSantis can 
beat Trump in the primaries, there is no one on the Democratic side that can 
beat him.  
 And they're saying De Sanctimonious has no chance against The Stable Genius.
 
 Why do you bother to type this made up shit?
 
 Brent
 

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Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-20 Thread Lawrence Crowell

This tee-shirt is nauseating.

LC 

On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 1:08:56 AM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

> The language is Hindi I believe. 
> There are others looking at the vaccines more carefully than you and John. 
> Advocacy journalism follows: 
>
> https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/fda-study-covid-vaccine-blood-clot-elderly-et/
> Core report: 
> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X22014931
>
> Counter argument-
> DeSantis' anti-vax grand jury petition suggests that a rise in 
> cardiac-related mortality in young people might be caused by vaccines. Of 
> course, if you actually look at the study, you'll see—shockingly—that the 
> rise predates vaccination. Because it's mostly due to COVID itself.
>
> I am willing to find out whether it (the vax) does or does not present a 
> danger to a minority of the public. 
>
> Bhattacharya is a prof at Stanford and that is one thing neither you nor I 
> are.  
>
> For the democrat practice of character assassination (which work great for 
> your team members but not ours) there is Professor Makary, at Johns 
> Hopkins, who sides with Bhattacharya. 
>
> @JohnsHopkins 
> professor, 
> @theNAMedicine 
> member, 
> @harvardchansph 
> alum, author of 2 NYT bestselling books. Honest debate is healthy, I can 
> be persuaded
>
>
> "Lancet study of Covid+ and - teens found “poor well-being, fatigue & 
> Long COVID were broadly similar” but loneliness increased steadily. Take 
> home message—Long-covid is not the mass disabling complication that has 
> permanently damaged a generation of children, social isolation is."
>
> All I want is to find out so as to save lives. It would seem that 
> practicing public health should be adjustable to discoveries in medical 
> science. 
>
> Seems sensible at first blush. Unless there are underlying financial or 
> obsessive-compulsive disorders happening?
>
> Or, more directly to your flavor of your discussions: (Get Ready..)
>
> If ya want Trump back, this is how ya get More Trump!!! (Laughter placed 
> here) :" Bwah ha hah hah hah"
>
> Meanwhile,in a home in Florida-DeSantis Saves, Jesus too? Moses Invests, 
> & Elvis Surfs 
>
> Meaning, if you wish to hurt DeSantis and now you may be on Don's side in 
> this, you won't hurt his chances by focusing on his grand jury move. He'd 
> have to look weak against Newsome of Cal. The only thing Newsome has 
> going for him is that he has been far, more, active, than Joe-Kamala on 
> Renewable energy. How significant in 24 will this be, we have way of 
> knowing now. As one dem pollster said back on November 10th, if DeSantis 
> can beat Trump in the primaries, there is no one on the Democratic side 
> that can beat him.
>
> [image: DESANTA SAVES CHRISTMAS 2021 // Ron DeSantis // Florida // image 1]
>
>
>

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Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-20 Thread Lawrence Crowell

On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 5:05:26 AM UTC-6 johnk...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 9:12 PM  wrote:
>
> *>People who from an epidemiological point of view, get suppressed by 
>> ideologists such as you, John. What are going for, Covid reduction or 
>> obedience to the Democratic Party? *
>>
>
> I'm for not knocking a 100,000 ton nuclear aircraft carrier out of 
> commission because some jackass is too stupid to get vaccinated.
>
> John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis 
> 
>

As  child I was legally mandated to have vaccinations to go the school. Now 
the mindless right-wingnuts want to allow people who have false ideas about 
these things to have exemptions. Now this has percolated into the military. 
People with trash for brains have been winning the day.

LC

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Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-20 Thread John Clark

On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 9:12 PM  wrote:

*>People who from an epidemiological point of view, get suppressed by
> ideologists such as you, John. What are going for, Covid reduction or
> obedience to the Democratic Party? *
>

I'm for not knocking a 100,000 ton nuclear aircraft carrier out of
commission because some jackass is too stupid to get vaccinated.

John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis

ygh

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Re: Fwd: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-19 Thread Brent Meeker

On 12/19/2022 11:08 PM, spudboy...@aol.com wrote:

The language is Hindi I believe.

That's all you've got say about your Champion.

There are others looking at the vaccines more carefully than you and
John.

Advocacy journalism follows:
https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/fda-study-covid-vaccine-blood-clot-elderly-et/
Core report:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X22014931

Typical bad medical statistics. They set a threshold for significance
of 1% false positive, but then applied it to 14 different "outcomes".
If there's a 1% chance of error that's 99% chance of no error...on each
test. So the probability of finding at least one false positive is
0.99^14=0.869 or 13%.

And what is the only "outcome" they identified as significant: Pulmonary
embolism in in the inpatient setting. In other words vaccinated persons
who were also inpatients had a significantly higher risk of PE. Don't
suppose it could have anything to do with lying prone a lot, or being in
a hospital with other sick people.

Counter argument-
DeSantis' anti-vax grand jury petition suggests that a rise in
cardiac-related mortality in young people might be caused by vaccines.
Of course, if you actually look at the study, you'll
see—shockingly—that the rise predates vaccination. Because it's mostly
due to COVID itself.

I am willing to find out whether it (the vax) does or does not present
a danger to a minority of the public.
Define "danger". One in chance in a thousand? ten thousand? hundred
thousand?

Bhattacharya is a prof at Stanford and that is one thing neither you
nor I are.

And I know statistics which neither you nor he do.

For the democrat practice of character assassination (which work great
for your team members but not ours) there is Professor Makary, at
Johns Hopkins, who sides with Bhattacharya.

Oh well, now I'm really impressed there's some other guy who's taken
sides. Too bad nobody has an argument or data.

@JohnsHopkins
professor,
@theNAMedicine
member,
@harvardchansph
alum, author of 2 NYT bestselling books. Honest debate is healthy, I
can be persuaded

"Lancet study of Covid+ and - teens found “poor well-being, fatigue &
Long COVID were broadly similar” but loneliness increased steadily.
Take home message—Long-covid is not the mass disabling complication
that has permanently damaged a generation of children, social
isolation is."

All I want is to find out so as to save lives.

If that were true you'd be advocating that all the unvaccinated
Trumpkins get vaccinations.

It would seem that practicing public health should be adjustable to
discoveries in medical science.
Seems sensible at first blush. Unless there are underlying financial
or obsessive-compulsive disorders happening?

Or, more directly to your flavor of your discussions: (Get Ready..)
If ya want Trump back, this is how ya get More Trump!!! (Laughter
placed here) :" Bwah ha hah hah hah"
Meanwhile,in a home in Florida-DeSantis Saves, Jesus too? Moses
Invests, & Elvis Surfs
Meaning, if you wish to hurt DeSantis and now you may be on Don's side
in this, you won't hurt his chances by focusing on his grand jury
move. He'd have to look weak against Newsome of Cal. The only thing
Newsome has going for him is that he has been far, more, active, than
Joe-Kamala on Renewable energy. How significant in 24 will this be, we
have way of knowing now. As one dem pollster said back on November
10th, if DeSantis can beat Trump in the primaries, there is no one on
the Democratic side that can beat him.

And they're saying De Sanctimonious has no chance against The Stable Genius.

Why do you bother to type this made up shit?

Brent

Fwd: Death, science, and politics

The language is Hindi I believe. 
There are others looking at the vaccines more carefully than you and 
John.Advocacy journalism follows: 
https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/fda-study-covid-vaccine-blood-clot-elderly-et/
Core report: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X22014931
Counter argument-DeSantis' anti-vax grand jury petition suggests that a rise in 
cardiac-related mortality in young people might be caused by vaccines. Of 
course, if you actually look at the study, you'll see—shockingly—that the rise 
predates vaccination. Because it's mostly due to COVID itself.

I am willing to find out whether it (the vax) does or does not present a danger 
to a minority of the public. 
Bhattacharya is a prof at Stanford and that is one thing neither you nor I are. 

For the democrat practice of character assassination (which work great for your 
team members but not ours) there is Professor Makary, at Johns Hopkins, who 
sides with Bhattacharya. 
@JohnsHopkins professor, @theNAMedicine member, @harvardchansph alum, author of 
2 NYT bestselling books. Honest debate is healthy, I can be persuaded

"Lancet study of Covid+ and - teens found “poor well-being, fatigue & Long 
COVID were broadly similar” but loneliness increased steadily. Take home 
message—Long-covid is not the mass disabling complication that has permanently 
damaged a generation of children, social isolation is."

All I want is to find out so as to save lives. It would seem that practicing 
public health should be adjustable to discoveries in medical science. 
Seems sensible at first blush. Unless there are underlying financial or 
obsessive-compulsive disorders happening?
Or, more directly to your flavor of your discussions: (Get Ready..)
If ya want Trump back, this is how ya get More Trump!!! (Laughter placed here) 
:" Bwah ha hah hah hah"
Meanwhile,in a home in Florida-DeSantis Saves, Jesus too? Moses Invests, & 
Elvis Surfs 
Meaning, if you wish to hurt DeSantis and now you may be on Don's side in this, 
you won't hurt his chances by focusing on his grand jury move. He'd have to 
look weak against Newsome of Cal. The only thing Newsome has going for him is 
that he has been far, more, active, than Joe-Kamala on Renewable energy. How 
significant in 24 will this be, we have way of knowing now. As one dem pollster 
said back on November 10th, if DeSantis can beat Trump in the primaries, there 
is no one on the Democratic side that can beat him.

-Original Message-
From: Brent Meeker 
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Mon, Dec 19, 2022 11:08 pm
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

 A search for published research on Google Scholar turns up lots of  
Bhattacharya's, (must translate to "Smith" in some language) but no "Jay" and 
none on vaccines.  So he's not exactly an leading expert.

 Brent

 On 12/19/2022 6:20 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:

This was Stanford professor Jay Bhattacharya who has a thing or two to 
contribute to any discussion on Covid. If you want to take a shot at him JC go 
ahead. But ya better bring Kryptonite! 
  https://profiles.stanford.edu/jay-bhattacharya 

 -Original Message-
 From: spudboy100 via Everything List 
 To: johnkcl...@gmail.com 
 Cc: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
 Sent: Mon, Dec 19, 2022 9:12 pm
 Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

   People who from an epidemiological point of view, get suppressed by 
ideologists such as you, John. What are going for, Covid reduction or obedience 
to the Democratic Party? 

 From Twitter- 
I remember how proud I was when I became a naturalized American citizen. 
I'm still proud to be an American, and I don't care that @Stanford disapproves 
of my using the term.Quote Tweet  
Elliot Kaufman@ElliotKaufman6 ·   2h   WSJ editorial: Call 
yourself an “American”? Please don’t. It’s on Stanford’s new index of forbidden 
words.https://wsj.com/articles/the-stanford-guide-to-acceptable-words-elimination-of-harmful-language-initiative-11671489552?mod=opinion_lead_pos2

 -Original Message-
 From: John Clark 
 To: spudboy...@aol.com
 Cc: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
 Sent: Mon, Dec 19, 2022 5:53 pm
 Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

 On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 5:02 PM  wrote:

 > Shipboard, that makes sense. People assigned to land are a different story. 
 > Close quarters aboard ship is one thing, airplanes too. 

  So the Navy is forced to hire people who can't sail on ships, the Air Force 
is forced to hire people who can't fly in airplanes, and the army is forced to 
hire people who can't ride in tanks. And why can't these people do these 
things? Because they're STUPID. That's fucking ridiculous, do you really think 
China is gonna be scared by an armed force like that?   
  John K Clark

Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-19 Thread Brent Meeker

A search for published research on Google Scholar turns up lots of 
Bhattacharya's, (must translate to "Smith" in some language) but no 
"Jay" and none on vaccines.  So he's not exactly an leading expert.


Brent


On 12/19/2022 6:20 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
This was Stanford professor Jay Bhattacharya who has a thing or two to 
contribute to any discussion on Covid. If you want to take a shot at 
him JC go ahead. But ya better bring Kryptonite!


https://profiles.stanford.edu/jay-bhattacharya





-Original Message-
From: spudboy100 via Everything List 
To: johnkcl...@gmail.com 
Cc: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Mon, Dec 19, 2022 9:12 pm
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

People who from an epidemiological point of view, get suppressed by 
ideologists such as you, John. What are going for, Covid reduction or 
obedience to the Democratic Party?


From Twitter-

I remember how proud I was when I became a naturalized American 
citizen. I'm still proud to be an American, and I don't care that

@Stanford <https://twitter.com/Stanford>
disapproves of my using the term.
Quote Tweet
Elliot Kaufman
@ElliotKaufman6
·
2h
WSJ editorial: Call yourself an “American”? Please don’t. It’s on 
Stanford’s new index of forbidden words. 
https://wsj.com/articles/the-stanford-guide-to-acceptable-words-elimination-of-harmful-language-initiative-11671489552?mod=opinion_lead_pos2







-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: spudboy...@aol.com
Cc: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Mon, Dec 19, 2022 5:53 pm
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 5:02 PM  wrote:

/> Shipboard, that makes sense. People assigned to land are a
different story. Close quarters aboard ship is one thing,
airplanes too./


So the Navy is forced to hire people who can't sail on ships, the Air 
Force is forced to hire people who can't fly in airplanes, and the 
army is forced to hire people who can't ride in tanks.And why can't 
these people do these things? Because they're *STUPID*. That's fucking 
ridiculous, do you really think China is gonna be scared by an armed 
force like that?


John K Clark    See what's on my new list at Extropolis 
<https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>

4f3
uvx


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Re: Death, science, and politics

This was Stanford professor Jay Bhattacharya who has a thing or two to 
contribute to any discussion on Covid. If you want to take a shot at him JC go 
ahead. But ya better bring Kryptonite!
https://profiles.stanford.edu/jay-bhattacharya

-Original Message-
From: spudboy100 via Everything List 
To: johnkcl...@gmail.com 
Cc: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Mon, Dec 19, 2022 9:12 pm
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

People who from an epidemiological point of view, get suppressed by ideologists 
such as you, John. What are going for, Covid reduction or obedience to the 
Democratic Party? 

>From Twitter-
I remember how proud I was when I became a naturalized American citizen. I'm 
still proud to be an American, and I don't care that @Stanford disapproves of 
my using the term.Quote TweetElliot Kaufman @ElliotKaufman6· 2h WSJ editorial: 
Call yourself an “American”? Please don’t. It’s on Stanford’s new index of 
forbidden 
words.https://wsj.com/articles/the-stanford-guide-to-acceptable-words-elimination-of-harmful-language-initiative-11671489552?mod=opinion_lead_pos2

-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: spudboy...@aol.com
Cc: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Mon, Dec 19, 2022 5:53 pm
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 5:02 PM  wrote:

> Shipboard, that makes sense. People assigned to land are a different story. 
> Close quarters aboard ship is one thing, airplanes too.

So the Navy is forced to hire people who can't sail on ships, the Air Force is 
forced to hire people who can't fly in airplanes, and the army is forced to 
hire people who can't ride in tanks. And why can't these people do these 
things? Because they're STUPID. That's fucking ridiculous, do you really think 
China is gonna be scared by an armed force like that?  
John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis4f3uvx

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Re: Death, science, and politics

For people at close proximity it's a given that vaccines are a necessity. For 
others who serve the nation, leeway must be given. Unless, that is, one is 
focused on obedience and is trying to make a political statement? Do you also 
disapprove of Pfizer's Paxlovid treatments because "they cost too much?" 
No surprise there! 

-Original Message-
From: Brent Meeker 
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Mon, Dec 19, 2022 5:17 pm
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

 On 12/19/2022 2:02 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:

 Shipboard, that makes sense. People assigned to land are a different story.  
 Yea, we won't pack them in airplanes and the back of trucks and armored 
personnel carriers; we'll have the march to war keeping six foot distance.

 Why do we keep potato boy on the list?  Just to provide intellectual noise?

 Brent
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Re: Death, science, and politics

People who from an epidemiological point of view, get suppressed by ideologists 
such as you, John. What are going for, Covid reduction or obedience to the 
Democratic Party? 

>From Twitter-
I remember how proud I was when I became a naturalized American citizen. I'm 
still proud to be an American, and I don't care that @Stanford disapproves of 
my using the term.Quote TweetElliot Kaufman@ElliotKaufman6·2hWSJ editorial: 
Call yourself an “American”? Please don’t. It’s on Stanford’s new index of 
forbidden 
words.https://wsj.com/articles/the-stanford-guide-to-acceptable-words-elimination-of-harmful-language-initiative-11671489552?mod=opinion_lead_pos2

-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: spudboy...@aol.com
Cc: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Mon, Dec 19, 2022 5:53 pm
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 5:02 PM  wrote:

> Shipboard, that makes sense. People assigned to land are a different story. 
> Close quarters aboard ship is one thing, airplanes too.

So the Navy is forced to hire people who can't sail on ships, the Air Force is 
forced to hire people who can't fly in airplanes, and the army is forced to 
hire people who can't ride in tanks. And why can't these people do these 
things? Because they're STUPID. That's fucking ridiculous, do you really think 
China is gonna be scared by an armed force like that?  
John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis4f3uvx

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Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-19 Thread John Clark

On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 5:02 PM  wrote:

*> Shipboard, that makes sense. People assigned to land are a different
> story. Close quarters aboard ship is one thing, airplanes too.*
>

So the Navy is forced to hire people who can't sail on ships, the Air Force
is forced to hire people who can't fly in airplanes, and the army is forced
to hire people who can't ride in tanks. And why can't these people do these
things? Because they're *STUPID*. That's fucking ridiculous, do you really
think China is gonna be scared by an armed force like that?

John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis

4f3
uvx

>

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Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-19 Thread Brent Meeker




On 12/19/2022 2:02 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
Shipboard, that makes sense. People assigned to land are a different 
story.
Yea, we won't pack them in airplanes and the back of trucks and armored 
personnel carriers; we'll have the march to war keeping six foot distance.


Why do we keep potato boy on the list?  Just to provide intellectual noise?

Brent

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Re: Death, science, and politics

Shipboard, that makes sense. People assigned to land are a different story. 
Close quarters aboard ship is one thing, airplanes too.
In the open, the CDC has a view on 
this-https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/your-health/risks-exposure.html
So insisting everyone needs the inoculation doesn't ring true 
epidemiologically. We then must ask what is reason? 

Relatedly, JC here is this news item, and again, why? 
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2022/12/09/bhattacharya_twitter_harmed_science_by_banning_debate_on_covid_censorship_led_to_tremendously_bad_policies.html
For me, we should have a way to screen for vaccination susceptibility. 
Resulting in less deaths. 

-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: spudboy...@aol.com
Cc: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Mon, Dec 19, 2022 7:27 am
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

On Sun, Dec 18, 2022 at 5:26 PM  wrote:

> your party and your people in the CDC insisted that upon pain of being fired 
> at hospitals, the military, the MUST be vaccinated.

GOOD! I don't think I need to explain why it's not a good idea to hire walking 
COVID-19 virus factories to work around sick people with compromised immune 
systems. As for the military, it was not the Democrats that insisted that all 
members of the armed forces be vaccinated, it was the military itself that 
insisted on it. Back in 2020 before there was a vaccine Covid broke out on the 
100,000 ton nuclear aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt when it was at sea and 
they had to cut short their mission and returned to port; 1331 sailors of the 
4779 on the ship got sick and 23 were so sick they had to be hospitalized, 4 
had to go into intensive care, and one died. The Navy really doesn't want 
something like that to happen again, especially if they're in a combat 
situation, so they want everybody to be vaccinated.
Chaos and Drama: New Light on What Went Wrong Aboard the Navy's COVID-Stricken 
Carrier
 John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
y5x

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Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-19 Thread John Clark

On Sun, Dec 18, 2022 at 5:26 PM wrote:

>* your party and your people in the CDC insisted that upon pain of being
> fired at hospitals, the military, the MUST be vaccinated.*

GOOD! I don't think I need to explain why it's not a good idea to hire
walking COVID-19 virus factories to work around sick people with
compromised immune systems. As for the military, it was not the Democrats
that insisted that all members of the armed forces be vaccinated, it was
the military itself that insisted on it. Back in 2020 before there was a
vaccine Covid broke out on the 100,000 ton nuclear aircraft carrier
Theodore Roosevelt when it was at sea and they had to cut short their
mission and returned to port; 1331 sailors of the 4779 on the ship got sick
and 23 were so sick they had to be hospitalized, 4 had to go into intensive
care, and one died. The Navy really doesn't want something like that to
happen again, especially if they're in a combat situation, so they want
everybody to be vaccinated.

Chaos and Drama: New Light on What Went Wrong Aboard the Navy's
COVID-Stricken Carrier

John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at Extropolis

y5x

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Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-19 Thread Samiya Illias

Hired for Khilafat 
http://expeditionthink.blogspot.com/2022/07/hired-for-khilafat.html 


> On 19-Dec-2022, at 9:13 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I am good with whatever we can do to improve the human condition. 
> Maybe we are locked in by the circumstances of physics and astronomy?
> Maybe we can learn ways in the far future of recovering minds from oblivion, 
> and maybe never?
> If it is the former, I'd like to think that our descendants, if they get the 
> technology would be is to take a whack at it. 
> So, the potential for human minds that never made it to consciousness, minds 
> cut off suddenly, everyone else needs to...
> Recovered. The biggest data recovery project in the universe (maybe?). It may 
> never happen, it may be impossible, but given enough time & science, I will 
> say yes. 
> 
> Others can and should dispute this. We each have our limits and our own 
> tolerances for things & some do better than others. 
> 
> For myself, a layman of some sort, I tend to be attracted to science analyses 
> and philosophies that indicate the mechanism of stuff like this. Here is a 
> short essay from physicist (ret) Guilio Prisco that suggests this path.
> 
> https://turingchurch.net/the-infrared-memory-of-the-universe-hints-at-future-akashic-physics-3f9a072f0ca6
> Basing it on, this collection from Andrew Strominger 2018, "Lectures on the 
> Infrared Structure of Gravity and Gauge Theory."
> 
> Is this a slam-dunk? I am not the one to say. On the it gives a description 
> of memory being created by the interaction of photons & gravity. For me it 
> addresses the How questions and the Why I leave for others, only now that it 
> seems a bit more plausible as in cause and effect. 
> 
> There are a few other essays out there-
> https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/bNJfe7zyXpdnhqWmo/technological-resurrection-two-possible-approaches
> 
> Here was one from 2021 for which I add: It's Popular Mechanics People! It's 
> got to be true!!!
> https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a35788050/dyson-sphere-digital-resurrection-immortality/
> 
> Tim Anderson at Georgia Tech occasionally postulates an essay or two on this 
> "data recovery program." 
> 
> Jason Resch had a website going but hasn't been update since 2021 but did 
> approach the concepts I am blabbing about.
> 
> Like most worthy human endeavors, we flop about till we either give up or get 
> things correct and of use.  
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Jesse Mazer 
> To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Sun, Dec 18, 2022 8:18 pm
> Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, Dec 18, 2022 at 12:53 PM spudboy100 via Everything List 
>  wrote:
> We shall see about hypersonic weapons, just know that Joey is responding in 
> kind.
> 
> Yes, you and the Christians are opposed to my Brave New World approach to 
> birthing. It is however a way up from abortion and if we are going to be a 
> more, ethical species, this would be a huge step. It will sell, but its not 
> being offered by progressives, nor, conservatives, because of their 
> dedication to ideology. 
> 
> 
> It's only more ethical if you think an organism completely lacking a 
> functioning brain can still have human-like moral worth merely by virtue of 
> having human DNA--the neurons in the cortex of a fetus are mostly lacking in 
> synapses until around the end of the second trimester, and no coherent brain 
> waves are seen until then. Seems hard to justify that stance if one doesn't 
> believe in a "soul", or in any kind of essentialistic notion that "human 
> organism" is a natural kind (in the philosophical sense of a totally 
> objective division in reality of the kind discussed at 
> https://iep.utm.edu/nat-kind/ ) so that mindless zygotes/fetuses are 
> objectively "human organisms" while other cases, like a sperm cell 
> approaching an egg cell or a collection of human stem cells kept alive in a 
> petri dish, are not "human organisms". If one wants to have some kind of 
> ethical system that can easily adapt to a possible transhuman future, the 
> idea that a human has a higher moral status than say a fish can't be rooted 
> specifically in human DNA, not if one wants to say that an AI or genetically 
> engineered animal could also potentially have the same higher moral value--it 
> would have to be rooted in something more abstract, like some broad 
> characterization of mental abilities or form of consciousness. But any such 
> abstract characterization of what gives an entity special moral worth is 
> probably not going to include fetuses before the onset of higher brain 
> function.
> 
&g

Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-18 Thread Brent Meeker

That's "De Sanctimonious" to you, John.

Brent :-)

On 12/18/2022 1:27 PM, John Clark wrote:

On Sun, Dec 18, 2022 at 4:20 PM wrote:

/> Anaphylactic shock is more treatable than the most aggressive
cancers, but NOT if you don't know that you are susceptible to
it!! This is what DeSantis wants/

And DeSantis expectsto obtain new medical knowledge from fucking
lawyers running a fucking grand jury?! BULLSHUT! What DeSantis wants
is a pat on the back from the Republican death cult, and judging from
your fawning over him I expect he'll probably get it.

John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis
<https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>

ygb

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Re: Death, science, and politics

I am good with whatever we can do to improve the human condition. Maybe we are 
locked in by the circumstances of physics and astronomy?Maybe we can learn ways 
in the far future of recovering minds from oblivion, and maybe never?If it is 
the former, I'd like to think that our descendants, if they get the technology 
would be is to take a whack at it. 
So, the potential for human minds that never made it to consciousness, minds 
cut off suddenly, everyone else needs to...Recovered. The biggest data recovery 
project in the universe (maybe?). It may never happen, it may be impossible, 
but given enough time & science, I will say yes. 
Others can and should dispute this. We each have our limits and our own 
tolerances for things & some do better than others. 

For myself, a layman of some sort, I tend to be attracted to science analyses 
and philosophies that indicate the mechanism of stuff like this. Here is a 
short essay from physicist (ret) Guilio Prisco that suggests this path.
https://turingchurch.net/the-infrared-memory-of-the-universe-hints-at-future-akashic-physics-3f9a072f0ca6
Basing it on, this collection from Andrew Strominger 2018, "Lectures on the 
Infrared Structure of Gravity and Gauge Theory."
Is this a slam-dunk? I am not the one to say. On the it gives a description of 
memory being created by the interaction of photons & gravity. For me it 
addresses the How questions and the Why I leave for others, only now that it 
seems a bit more plausible as in cause and effect. 
There are a few other essays out 
there-https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/bNJfe7zyXpdnhqWmo/technological-resurrection-two-possible-approaches

Here was one from 2021 for which I add: It's Popular Mechanics People! It's got 
to be 
true!!!https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a35788050/dyson-sphere-digital-resurrection-immortality/

Tim Anderson at Georgia Tech occasionally postulates an essay or two on this 
"data recovery program." 
Jason Resch had a website going but hasn't been update since 2021 but did 
approach the concepts I am blabbing about.
Like most worthy human endeavors, we flop about till we either give up or get 
things correct and of use.  

-Original Message-
From: Jesse Mazer 
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, Dec 18, 2022 8:18 pm
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

On Sun, Dec 18, 2022 at 12:53 PM spudboy100 via Everything List 
 wrote:

We shall see about hypersonic weapons, just know that Joey is responding in 
kind.
Yes, you and the Christians are opposed to my Brave New World approach to 
birthing. It is however a way up from abortion and if we are going to be a 
more, ethical species, this would be a huge step. It will sell, but its not 
being offered by progressives, nor, conservatives, because of their dedication 
to ideology. 

It's only more ethical if you think an organism completely lacking a 
functioning brain can still have human-like moral worth merely by virtue of 
having human DNA--the neurons in the cortex of a fetus are mostly lacking in 
synapses until around the end of the second trimester, and no coherent brain 
waves are seen until then. Seems hard to justify that stance if one doesn't 
believe in a "soul", or in any kind of essentialistic notion that "human 
organism" is a natural kind (in the philosophical sense of a totally objective 
division in reality of the kind discussed at https://iep.utm.edu/nat-kind/ ) so 
that mindless zygotes/fetuses are objectively "human organisms" while other 
cases, like a sperm cell approaching an egg cell or a collection of human stem 
cells kept alive in a petri dish, are not "human organisms". If one wants to 
have some kind of ethical system that can easily adapt to a possible transhuman 
future, the idea that a human has a higher moral status than say a fish can't 
be rooted specifically in human DNA, not if one wants to say that an AI or 
genetically engineered animal could also potentially have the same higher moral 
value--it would have to be rooted in something more abstract, like some broad 
characterization of mental abilities or form of consciousness. But any such 
abstract characterization of what gives an entity special moral worth is 
probably not going to include fetuses before the onset of higher brain function.

-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List 
Sent: Sun, Dec 18, 2022 6:39 am
Subject: Death, science, and politics

On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 9:10 PM  wrote:

> Hypersonics only do 13.5 KPH. However, their trick is swerving in mid air to 
> avoid being hit by incoming anti-missiles.

I have three comments on that: 
1) The US does not have a viable defense against ICBMs, it didn't have one 60 
years ago when ICBMs first came online and it doesn't have one today. And 
neither does Russia. And neither does China. And neither does anybody else. And 
nobody is likely

Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-18 Thread Jesse Mazer

On Sun, Dec 18, 2022 at 12:53 PM spudboy100 via Everything List <
everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> We shall see about hypersonic weapons, just know that Joey is responding
> in kind.
>
> Yes, you and the Christians are opposed to my Brave New World approach to
> birthing. It is however a way up from abortion and if we are going to be a
> more, ethical species, this would be a huge step. It will sell, but its not
> being offered by progressives, nor, conservatives, because of their
> dedication to ideology.
>

It's only more ethical if you think an organism completely lacking a
functioning brain can still have human-like moral worth merely by virtue of
having human DNA--the neurons in the cortex of a fetus are mostly lacking
in synapses until around the end of the second trimester, and no coherent
brain waves are seen until then. Seems hard to justify that stance if one
doesn't believe in a "soul", or in any kind of essentialistic notion that
"human organism" is a natural kind (in the philosophical sense of a totally
objective division in reality of the kind discussed at
https://iep.utm.edu/nat-kind/ ) so that mindless zygotes/fetuses are
objectively "human organisms" while other cases, like a sperm cell
approaching an egg cell or a collection of human stem cells kept alive in a
petri dish, are not "human organisms". If one wants to have some kind of
ethical system that can easily adapt to a possible transhuman future, the
idea that a human has a higher moral status than say a fish can't be rooted
specifically in human DNA, not if one wants to say that an AI or
genetically engineered animal could also potentially have the same higher
moral value--it would have to be rooted in something more abstract, like
some broad characterization of mental abilities or form of consciousness.
But any such abstract characterization of what gives an entity special
moral worth is probably not going to include fetuses before the onset of
higher brain function.

>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: John Clark 
> To: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List 
> Sent: Sun, Dec 18, 2022 6:39 am
> Subject: Death, science, and politics
>
> On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 9:10 PM  wrote:
>
> *> Hypersonics only do 13.5 KPH. However, their trick is swerving in mid
> air to avoid being hit by incoming anti-missiles.*
>
>
> I have three comments on that:
>
> 1) The US does not have a viable defense against ICBMs, it didn't have one
> 60 years ago when ICBMs first came online and it doesn't have one today.
> And neither does Russia. And neither does China. And neither does anybody
> else. And nobody is likely to develop one in the foreseeable future.
>
> 2) Just one modern ICBM can contain hundreds of decoys and a dozen nuclear
> reentry warheads, each many times more powerful than the bomb that
> destroyed Hiroshima, and can be individually maneuvered and reach a dozen
> cities hundreds of miles apart with pinpoint accuracy.
>
> 3) You say you hate Russia but you uncritically believe all the hype they
> spew out. The Russians fire a few hypersonic missiles into Ukraine and
> claim it is a world beating weapon, but it turns out to have an
> insignificant effect on the war. The Russians claimed they had a powerful
> all conquering army, but it turned out to be powerful on paper only because
> it had incompetent commanders leading untrained poorly equipped soldiers
> who had bottom of the birdcage morale and were communicating with
> unencrypted commercial cell phones and we're fighting with obsolete
> weapons, some from the 1940s.
>
> *> To grease your skids, JC,  I will push (along with others) making
> abortion less attractive then building artificial wombs! Thus retaining the
> Christian voter and promoting a new moral answer for humankind. *
>
>
> Christian voters were very upset when the first so-called "test tube baby"
> was born by in vitro fertilization,  today many think even condoms are an
> unnatural abomination and should be banned; so I really don't think
> Christians are going to be thrilled by artificial wombs.  And it would take
> years and billions of dollars to develop artificial wombs, but historically
> Republicans have been reluctant to spend money on scientific research or
> spend money on anything except for devices that can kill people that the
> military or the man in the street can use. And I'm not sure Republicans
> would be happy about spending many trillions of tax dollars to care for
> millions of unwanted and unloved children for 18 years. But I am sure that
> Republicans will blame the Democrats for the huge increase in street crime
> that spikes 18 years after your lunatic plan takes effect.
>
> John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropoli

Re: Death, science, and politics

Well, John, ya know, us Reps shor iz hypocrites and I iz the biggest. I was and 
am enthusiast for the Vaxes and get mine with no problems. I am, however 
troubled by reports of surprising deaths in otherwise healthy young athletes. 
Plus, your party and your people in the CDC insisted that upon pain of being 
fired at hospitals, the military, the MUST be vaccinated. So, since your team 
uses coercion, why be bothered if my team does the same, especially if we are 
pursuing medical accuracy? 

If this dreadful, Fox propaganda talking point is in any way true, the medical 
facts have been suppressed. If the professor here lying, or afraid of offending 
Jesus by wanting to alert people to his findings? 'Twitter files' confirm 
Stanford professor Dr. Jay Bhattacharya was 'blacklisted' for COVID-19 
information | Fox News
This seems to be more a dem conspiracy then a rep conspiracy to me. Are you 
concerned that people might rebel against forced vaccinations as policy, or 
that a Pharma cover up might be revealed? 
What I like about the UK press is that deep down, they hate all Americans 
across the board, so given a chance they happily present The Dirt on the US.  
The worser, the better!
Stanford professor revealed to be blacklisted by Twitter for opposing COVID 
lockdowns | Daily Mail Online

Your morality doesn't trouble me at all. You're no worse than anyone else. 
Doing what is wise, be it military, or abortion, or vaccinations, or space, we 
are better served to yeah, buddy, follow the science down the rabbit hole. 
Don't axiomatically assume that scientists or politicians are virtuous. Parties 
are virtuous? Hell no! 

-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: spudboy...@aol.com
Cc: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Sun, Dec 18, 2022 5:00 pm
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

On Sun, Dec 18, 2022 at 4:44 PM  wrote:

> Let's find out,

And you expect DeSantis and his ridiculous grand jury to do that?  

 > especially if there have been reported problems with people dying.

With 12.7 billion vaccine shots given of course there are reports of people 
dying soon after they received one, how could it be otherwise? But there is no 
well-established link between the two things and if there is one it is very 
very weak.  

> Are these false accusations? Moderna and Pfizer have huge legal teams for 
> just such inquiries and they were protected by Trump with his Warp Speed 
> development of the vaccines, so why complain? Or is it, you do lawfare, now 
> we do lawfare? My worship of the Republican Gov is nothing compared to the 
> dem slavish obedience to Fauci. 

You chastise me for having insufficient reverence for life but it is vaccine 
suspicion spread by people like you that have already killed millions of people 
and is still killing thousands of people a day.     
 John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

jhg
nhb

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Re: Death, science, and politics

On Sun, Dec 18, 2022 at 4:44 PM  wrote:

*> Let's find out,*

And you expect DeSantis and his ridiculous grand jury to do that?

> especially if there have been reported problems with people dying.
>

With 12.7 billion vaccine shots given of course there are reports of people
dying soon after they received one, how could it be otherwise? But there is
no well-established link between the two things and if there is one it is
very very weak.

> *> Are these false accusations? Moderna and Pfizer have huge legal teams
> for just such inquiries and they were protected by Trump with his Warp
> Speed development of the vaccines, so why complain? Or is it, you do
> lawfare, now we do lawfare? My worship of the Republican Gov is nothing
> compared to the dem slavish obedience to Fauci. *
>

You chastise me for having insufficient reverence for life but it is
vaccine suspicion spread by people like you that have already killed
millions of people and is still killing thousands of people a day.

John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis

jhg

nhb

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Re: Death, science, and politics

Let's find out, especially if there have been reported problems with people 
dying. Are these false accusations? Moderna and Pfizer have huge legal teams 
for just such inquiries and they were protected by Trump with his Warp Speed 
development of the vaccines, so why complain? Or is it, you do lawfare, now we 
do lawfare? My worship of the Republican Gov is nothing compared to the dem 
slavish obedience to Fauci. 

-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: spudboy...@aol.com
Cc: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Sun, Dec 18, 2022 4:27 pm
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

On Sun, Dec 18, 2022 at 4:20 PM  wrote:

> Anaphylactic shock is more treatable than the most aggressive cancers, but 
> NOT if you don't know that you are susceptible to it!! This is what DeSantis 
> wants

And DeSantis expects to obtain new medical knowledge from fucking lawyers 
running a fucking grand jury?! BULLSHUT! What DeSantis wants is a pat on the 
back from the Republican death cult, and judging from your fawning over him I 
expect he'll probably get it. 
 John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolisygb

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Re: Death, science, and politics

That's the spirit! A Republican Camp would have Jesus as their Top Guy, not 
Governor D! By the way, As the Doobie Brothers intoned long ago, "Jesus in just 
alright with me!" Not a bad guy in my opinion, and better than the Sadducees 
that ran the Sanhedrin back then, and fucking better than the Romans, whose 
early motto was, "we crucify the first 5 people we meet." Yet they wind up 
making it The Religion of Empire. 
https://www.livescience.com/65283-crucifixion-history.html
Now, practice your DeSantis carol John. "Oh come let us adore, HIM!" 

-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: spudboy...@aol.com 
Cc: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, Dec 18, 2022 2:45 pm
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

On Sun, Dec 18, 2022 at 2:07 PM spudboy...@aol.com  wrote:


> you will grow to adore DeSantis,

It's possible, I'm not tougher than Winston Smith and in 1984 he grew to love 
Big Brother after being horribly tortured and brainwashed in the Ministry Of 
Love, and he sincerely believed that 2+2=5 when the fascist party running the 
country told him that was the correct answer. The book ended with Smith 
chanting Long Live Big Brother, after spending enough time in a Republican 
reeducation camp I might start chanting Long Live Ron DeSantis.  
John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
nor
7bv

 

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Re: Death, science, and politics

On Sun, Dec 18, 2022 at 4:20 PM  wrote:

*> Anaphylactic shock is more treatable than the most aggressive cancers,
> but NOT if you don't know that you are susceptible to it!! This is what
> DeSantis wants*


And DeSantis expects to obtain new medical knowledge from fucking lawyers
running a fucking grand jury?! BULLSHUT! What DeSantis wants is a pat on
the back from the Republican death cult, and judging from your fawning over
him I expect he'll probably get it.

 John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis
<https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>
ygb





>
>

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Re: Death, science, and politics

Well, for money and that, as a species, over the longer term, we all seem to be 
able to make a profit doing medical services. Just like you opposed my idea of 
treatment for Covid being life-saving got sufferers, PFizer was already ahead 
of us both. I agree with the notion that when we want a one-world govt, the 
path would be through universal healthcare. 
Anaphylactic shock is more treatable than the most aggressive cancers, but NOT 
if you don't know that you are susceptible to it!! This is what DeSantis wants 
and what every potential patient needs to know. Yes, I'd be spending billions 
and trillions more on cancer and tissue engineering because Johny, besides 
allowing people to live, we'd all get a nice ROI, return on investment. 
You must mean ethics instead of morals. Morality belongs to you and God the 
gawdz? Ethics is how we treat each other or animals. Please defer from morality 
lectures because atheists have no magic friends in the sky. 

-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: spudboy...@aol.com
Cc: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Sun, Dec 18, 2022 1:08 pm
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

On Sun, Dec 18, 2022 at 12:57 PM  wrote:

> If somebody has an adverse reaction to peanuts you don't feed them peanuts

You would if eating a peanut prevented cancer because anaphylactic shock we can 
deal with, cancer is a bit more difficult.  

> Your dismissiveness on people's lives and whether

Don't give me that crap! Medical resources are finite, a dollar spent on 
solving a problem that is either tiny or doesn't exist at all is a dollar not 
spend on things that kill millions of people a year such as cancer and heart 
disease and of course Covid. And that is morally wrong as well as incredibly 
stupid. John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
urt

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Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-18 Thread 'spudboy...@aol.com' via Everything List

On Sun, Dec 18, 2022 at 2:07 PM spudboy...@aol.com 
wrote:

*> you will grow to adore DeSantis,*


It's possible, I'm not tougher than Winston Smith and in 1984 he grew to
love Big Brother after being horribly tortured and brainwashed in the
Ministry Of Love, and he sincerely believed that 2+2=5 when the fascist
party running the country told him that was the correct answer. The book
ended with Smith chanting Long Live Big Brother, after spending enough time
in a Republican reeducation camp I might start chanting Long Live Ron
DeSantis.

John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis

nor

7bv

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Re: Death, science, and politics

Things can change, and the main selling point, will be, the babies get to live,
and that is a good thing. Only, yourself seems to value money over life to such
an extreme. I have tried my elevator pitch upon a feminist and a Trump hater,
and my proposal worked, sorry to tell you!
Plus, there's no good reason not to look at if some people suffer death from
covid backing. We're talking medical science here, supposedly.
On politics, you will grow to adore DeSantis, as I have, for His, is the Might,
the Power, and the Glory!! His holy visage doth grace the land, from the holy
city of Coral Gables, to sacred swamp of Okiephenokie!

Sent from the all new AOL app for Android

On Sun, Dec 18, 2022 at 1:41 PM, John Clark wrote:
On Sun, Dec 18, 2022 at 12:53 PM wrote:

> Yes, you and the Christians are opposed to my Brave New World approach to
> birthing. It is however a way up from abortion and if we are going to be a
> more, ethical species, this would be a huge step. It will sell, but its not
> being offered by progressives, nor, conservatives, because [...]

Because everybody except you realizes it's a dumb idea. And there is no way in
hell that your right wing buddies and holy roller friends would be willing to
pay the astronomical cost of such a thing.
John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis987

vdy

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Re: Death, science, and politics

On Sun, Dec 18, 2022 at 12:53 PM  wrote:

*> Yes, you and the Christians are opposed to my Brave New World approach
> to birthing. It is however a way up from abortion and if we are going to be
> a more, ethical species, this would be a huge step. It will sell, but its
> not being offered by progressives, nor, conservatives, because* [...]
>

Because everybody except you realizes it's a dumb idea.  And there is no
way in hell that your right wing buddies and holy roller friends would be
willing to pay the astronomical cost of such a thing.

John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis

987

> vdy
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> 
> .
>

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Re: Death, science, and politics

On Sun, Dec 18, 2022 at 12:57 PM  wrote:

*> If somebody has an adverse reaction to peanuts you don't feed them
> peanuts*

You would if eating a peanut prevented cancer because anaphylactic shock we
can deal with, cancer is a bit more difficult.

> Your dismissiveness on people's lives and whether
>

Don't give me that crap! Medical resources are finite, a dollar spent on
solving a problem that is either tiny or doesn't exist at all is a dollar
not spend on things that kill millions of people a year such as cancer and
heart disease and of course Covid. And that is morally wrong as well as
incredibly stupid.
John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis

urt

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Re: Death, science, and politics

So, you're convinced that there is no concern for adverse reactions from the 
mRNA vaccinations? Nobody is having medical problems from, in many cases, 
coerced into taking the vaccinations. Or is it merely, that I glommed Epoch 
Times as a source?
So, if I supplied a medical study, if I ever stumbled across such a study, 
you'd peruse it? 

-Original Message-
From: Lawrence Crowell 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Sun, Dec 18, 2022 11:36 am
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

On Sunday, December 18, 2022 at 6:01:52 AM UTC-6 johnk...@gmail.com wrote:

On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 9:19 PM  wrote:

>the thing is scientifically is not to do what the dem-progressives do which is 
>demand that everyone get vaccinated, but to have some biological screening 
>done to prevent those with medical-genetic dispositions to be harmed by 
>vaccination damage, to not be subjected to a death warrant? 

We have excellent data on the safety of the Covid vaccine because worldwide 
12.7 BILLION shots have been given, so now we know that it is one of the safest 
medications in the history of the world. The most common side effect is 
anaphylactic shock which occurs in 5 people out of 1 million, however none of 
those cases have been fatal. It's impossible to prove that anything is 100% 
safe but we know for certain that the set of people who have received a "death 
warrant" because of the vaccine is tiny and may indeed be the null set. However 
the set of people who are alive because of the Covid shot is HUGE.    

> is there a thing between one political party receiving donation$ from Pfizer 
> and Moderna?

Yeah yeah, we've heard that paranoid right wing crap before. And why the hell 
would you want to demonize Pfizer and Moderna?! Those two companies have saved 
millions of lives and trillions of dollars! John K Clark    See what's on my 
new list at  Extropolis
tod

Spudboy has little credibility IMO. I dismiss most of his posts are 
conspiratorial fear-mongering nonsense.
LC 

Tucker Carlson made a big stink on his silly Fox show when he said 4863 people 
died shortly after receiving a Covid shot. What he said was true but what he 
didn't say was that more than 285 MILLION shots had been administered so that's 
just 0.0017% , and he didn't mention that 80% of those were over 60 years old, 
and he didn't mention that number included those who died from any cause 
including car crashes and lightning strikes, and he didn't mention that not a 
single one of those 4863 deaths has been conclusively linked to the Covid shot. 
And he didn't mention that the Covid vaccine has saved an estimated 3 million 
lives in the US and 20 million lives worldwide. 
20% of the US population (nearly all members of the Republican death cult) has 
still not received one single Covid shot, do you seriously believe the world 
would be a better place if that percentage was even higher? Do we really need 
more vaccine skepticism? 

8ha

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Re: Death, science, and politics

Your dismissiveness on people's lives and whether or not they have an adverse 
reaction to the mRNA dosing is predicated on your ideology and not medical 
science. If somebody has an adverse reaction to peanuts you don't feed them 
peanuts. It's a medical question that needs an answer. Very simple, 
conceptually. T/F, Y/N?

-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: spudboy...@aol.com
Cc: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Sun, Dec 18, 2022 7:01 am
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 9:19 PM  wrote:

>the thing is scientifically is not to do what the dem-progressives do which is 
>demand that everyone get vaccinated, but to have some biological screening 
>done to prevent those with medical-genetic dispositions to be harmed by 
>vaccination damage, to not be subjected to a death warrant? 

We have excellent data on the safety of the Covid vaccine because worldwide 
12.7 BILLION shots have been given, so now we know that it is one of the safest 
medications in the history of the world. The most common side effect is 
anaphylactic shock which occurs in 5 people out of 1 million, however none of 
those cases have been fatal. It's impossible to prove that anything is 100% 
safe but we know for certain that the set of people who have received a "death 
warrant" because of the vaccine is tiny and may indeed be the null set. However 
the set of people who are alive because of the Covid shot is HUGE.    

> is there a thing between one political party receiving donation$ from Pfizer 
> and Moderna?

Yeah yeah, we've heard that paranoid right wing crap before. And why the hell 
would you want to demonize Pfizer and Moderna?! Those two companies have saved 
millions of lives and trillions of dollars! John K Clark    See what's on my 
new list at  Extropolis
tod

Tucker Carlson made a big stink on his silly Fox show when he said 4863 people 
died shortly after receiving a Covid shot. What he said was true but what he 
didn't say was that more than 285 MILLION shots had been administered so that's 
just 0.0017% , and he didn't mention that 80% of those were over 60 years old, 
and he didn't mention that number included those who died from any cause 
including car crashes and lightning strikes, and he didn't mention that not a 
single one of those 4863 deaths has been conclusively linked to the Covid shot. 
And he didn't mention that the Covid vaccine has saved an estimated 3 million 
lives in the US and 20 million lives worldwide. 
20% of the US population (nearly all members of the Republican death cult) has 
still not received one single Covid shot, do you seriously believe the world 
would be a better place if that percentage was even higher? Do we really need 
more vaccine skepticism? 

8ha

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Re: Death, science, and politics

We shall see about hypersonic weapons, just know that Joey is responding in 
kind.
Yes, you and the Christians are opposed to my Brave New World approach to 
birthing. It is however a way up from abortion and if we are going to be a 
more, ethical species, this would be a huge step. It will sell, but its not 
being offered by progressives, nor, conservatives, because of their dedication 
to ideology. 

-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List 
Sent: Sun, Dec 18, 2022 6:39 am
Subject: Death, science, and politics

On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 9:10 PM  wrote:

> Hypersonics only do 13.5 KPH. However, their trick is swerving in mid air to 
> avoid being hit by incoming anti-missiles.

I have three comments on that: 
1) The US does not have a viable defense against ICBMs, it didn't have one 60 
years ago when ICBMs first came online and it doesn't have one today. And 
neither does Russia. And neither does China. And neither does anybody else. And 
nobody is likely to develop one in the foreseeable future. 
2) Just one modern ICBM can contain hundreds of decoys and a dozen nuclear 
reentry warheads, each many times more powerful than the bomb that destroyed 
Hiroshima, and can be individually maneuvered and reach a dozen cities hundreds 
of miles apart with pinpoint accuracy.
3) You say you hate Russia but you uncritically believe all the hype they spew 
out. The Russians fire a few hypersonic missiles into Ukraine and claim it is a 
world beating weapon, but it turns out to have an insignificant effect on the 
war. The Russians claimed they had a powerful all conquering army, but it 
turned out to be powerful on paper only because it had incompetent commanders 
leading untrained poorly equipped soldiers who had bottom of the birdcage 
morale and were communicating with unencrypted commercial cell phones and we're 
fighting with obsolete weapons, some from the 1940s.  

> To grease your skids, JC,  I will push (along with others) making abortion 
> less attractive then building artificial wombs! Thus retaining the Christian 
> voter and promoting a new moral answer for humankind. 

Christian voters were very upset when the first so-called "test tube baby" was 
born by in vitro fertilization,  today many think even condoms are an unnatural 
abomination and should be banned; so I really don't think Christians are going 
to be thrilled by artificial wombs.  And it would take years and billions of 
dollars to develop artificial wombs, but historically Republicans have been 
reluctant to spend money on scientific research or spend money on anything 
except for devices that can kill people that the military or the man in the 
street can use. And I'm not sure Republicans would be happy about spending many 
trillions of tax dollars to care for millions of unwanted and unloved children 
for 18 years. But I am sure that Republicans will blame the Democrats for the 
huge increase in street crime that spikes 18 years after your lunatic plan 
takes effect.

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
vdy

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Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-18 Thread Lawrence Crowell

On Sunday, December 18, 2022 at 6:01:52 AM UTC-6 johnk...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 9:19 PM  wrote:
>
> *>the thing is scientifically is not to do what the dem-progressives do 
>> which is demand that everyone get vaccinated, but to have some biological 
>> screening done to prevent those with medical-genetic dispositions to be 
>> harmed by vaccination damage, to not be subjected to a death warrant? *
>>
>
> We have excellent data on the safety of the Covid vaccine because 
> worldwide 12.7 BILLION shots have been given, so now we know that it is one 
> of the safest medications in the history of the world. The most common side 
> effect is anaphylactic shock which occurs in 5 people out of 1 million, 
> however none of those cases have been fatal. It's impossible to prove that 
> anything is 100% safe but we know for certain that the set of people who 
> have received a "death warrant" because of the vaccine is tiny and may 
> indeed be the null set. However the set of people who are alive because of 
> the Covid shot is *HUGE*.
>
> *> is there a thing between one political party receiving donation$ from 
>> Pfizer and Moderna?*
>>
>
> Yeah yeah, we've heard that paranoid right wing crap before. And why the 
> hell would you want to demonize Pfizer and Moderna?! Those two companies 
> have saved millions of lives and trillions of dollars!
> John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis 
> <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>
> tod
>

Spudboy has little credibility IMO. I dismiss most of his posts are 
conspiratorial fear-mongering nonsense.

LC
 

>
>
>
>> Tucker Carlson made a big stink on his silly Fox show when he said 4863 
>> people died shortly after receiving a Covid shot. What he said was true but 
>> what he didn't say was that more than 285 MILLION shots had been 
>> administered so that's just 0.0017% , and he didn't mention that 80% of 
>> those were over 60 years old, and he didn't mention that number included 
>> those who died from any cause including car crashes and lightning strikes, 
>> and he didn't mention that not a single one of those 4863 deaths has been 
>> conclusively linked to the Covid shot. And he didn't mention that the Covid 
>> vaccine has saved an estimated 3 million lives in the US and 20 million 
>> lives worldwide. 
>>
>> 20% of the US population (nearly all members of the Republican death 
>> cult) has still not received one single Covid shot, do you seriously 
>> believe the world would be a better place if that percentage was even 
>> higher? Do we really need more vaccine skepticism? 
>>
>>  
>>
> 8ha
>>
>>

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Re: Death, science, and politics

On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 9:19 PM  wrote:

*>the thing is scientifically is not to do what the dem-progressives do
> which is demand that everyone get vaccinated, but to have some biological
> screening done to prevent those with medical-genetic dispositions to be
> harmed by vaccination damage, to not be subjected to a death warrant? *
>

We have excellent data on the safety of the Covid vaccine because worldwide
12.7 BILLION shots have been given, so now we know that it is one of the
safest medications in the history of the world. The most common side effect
is anaphylactic shock which occurs in 5 people out of 1 million, however
none of those cases have been fatal. It's impossible to prove that anything
is 100% safe but we know for certain that the set of people who have
received a "death warrant" because of the vaccine is tiny and may indeed be
the null set. However the set of people who are alive because of the Covid
shot is *HUGE*.

*> is there a thing between one political party receiving donation$ from
> Pfizer and Moderna?*
>

Yeah yeah, we've heard that paranoid right wing crap before. And why the
hell would you want to demonize Pfizer and Moderna?! Those two companies
have saved millions of lives and trillions of dollars!
John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis
<https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>
tod

> Tucker Carlson made a big stink on his silly Fox show when he said 4863
> people died shortly after receiving a Covid shot. What he said was true but
> what he didn't say was that more than 285 MILLION shots had been
> administered so that's just 0.0017% , and he didn't mention that 80% of
> those were over 60 years old, and he didn't mention that number included
> those who died from any cause including car crashes and lightning strikes,
> and he didn't mention that not a single one of those 4863 deaths has been
> conclusively linked to the Covid shot. And he didn't mention that the Covid
> vaccine has saved an estimated 3 million lives in the US and 20 million
> lives worldwide.
>
> 20% of the US population (nearly all members of the Republican death cult)
> has still not received one single Covid shot, do you seriously believe the
> world would be a better place if that percentage was even higher? Do we
> really need more vaccine skepticism?
>
>
> 8ha
>
>

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Death, science, and politics

On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 9:10 PM  wrote:

*> Hypersonics only do 13.5 KPH. However, their trick is swerving in mid
> air to avoid being hit by incoming anti-missiles.*
>

I have three comments on that:

1) The US does not have a viable defense against ICBMs, it didn't have one
60 years ago when ICBMs first came online and it doesn't have one today.
And neither does Russia. And neither does China. And neither does anybody
else. And nobody is likely to develop one in the foreseeable future.

2) Just one modern ICBM can contain hundreds of decoys and a dozen nuclear
reentry warheads, each many times more powerful than the bomb that
destroyed Hiroshima, and can be individually maneuvered and reach a dozen
cities hundreds of miles apart with pinpoint accuracy.

3) You say you hate Russia but you uncritically believe all the hype they
spew out. The Russians fire a few hypersonic missiles into Ukraine and
claim it is a world beating weapon, but it turns out to have an
insignificant effect on the war. The Russians claimed they had a powerful
all conquering army, but it turned out to be powerful on paper only because
it had incompetent commanders leading untrained poorly equipped soldiers
who had bottom of the birdcage morale and were communicating with
unencrypted commercial cell phones and we're fighting with obsolete
weapons, some from the 1940s.

*> To grease your skids, JC,  I will push (along with others) making
> abortion less attractive then building artificial wombs! Thus retaining the
> Christian voter and promoting a new moral answer for humankind. *
>

Christian voters were very upset when the first so-called "test tube baby"
was born by in vitro fertilization,  today many think even condoms are an
unnatural abomination and should be banned; so I really don't think
Christians are going to be thrilled by artificial wombs.  And it would take
years and billions of dollars to develop artificial wombs, but historically
Republicans have been reluctant to spend money on scientific research or
spend money on anything except for devices that can kill people that the
military or the man in the street can use. And I'm not sure Republicans
would be happy about spending many trillions of tax dollars to care for
millions of unwanted and unloved children for 18 years. But I am sure that
Republicans will blame the Democrats for the huge increase in street crime
that spikes 18 years after your lunatic plan takes effect.

John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis

vdy

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Re: Death, science, and politics


Just, logically from what we know from infectious disease specialists, there 
often is a subset of individuals who react badly to inoculation. Does this 
invalidate the research and development that may have prevented millions of 
deaths? No, but there is no reason to oppose DeSantis or say, some other pol 
from wanting to identify if this is valid or not? Should a tiny fraction go 
about with masks and gloves, and never be inoculated? Or is this foolish from a 
public health perspective? IF big pharma has hidden adverse results, it is 
reasonable to know this. If athletes are keeling over left and right because of 
clots and carditis we oughta know? If this is just exaggeration, let's find 
out. 

-Original Message-
From: Stathis Papaioannou 
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sat, Dec 17, 2022 10:19 pm
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics



On Sun, 18 Dec 2022 at 13:09, Dylan Distasio  wrote:



On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 8:38 PM Brent Meeker  wrote:

  
Why would you want the vaccine to stay in your left bicep?  Does someone 
suppose that a pertussis, or measles or polio vaccine just stayed in one 
tissue?  And the word "nanoparticle" is misleading.  I believe the mRNA 
molecules are in a fluid droplet; not some solid particle.

Why, because the way vaccines have worked pre-mRNA is that dendretic cells in 
the local injection area take up the antigen and present it to T-cells in the 
lymphatic system.   At that point the immune system is primed.   
The question of tissue distribution becomes much more important with mRNA 
vaccines because any cell that takes it up is going to produce the spike 
protein and be attacked by the immune system, meaning for example that if a 
large number of heart cells took it up and expressed spike protein, they are 
going to be attacked by the immune system as infected potentially leading to 
inflammation and other undesired side effects.

The coronavirus infects multiple tisssues in body, and almost every possible 
side-effect of vaccines, including rare ones such as myocarditis, are worse 
with the viral infection. This is what you would expect: viruses are parasites 
than invade the body and take over cells to make them produce more viruses, 
while vaccines are dead or attenuated viruses or a tiny part of the virus.

The makers of mRNA vaccines would certainly hope that the mRNA stays localized 
to the injection site; you will certainly not find them trumpeting the idea 
that it is a good thing for them to go all over the body.    You are risking 
inflammation and damage in any tissue they get into with a high level of 
distribution (more on possible mechanisms of action regarding myocarditis here 
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8607534/).
Nanoparticle is not misleading.   It is industry standard verbiage.   The mRNA 
is encapsulated in lipid nanoparticles which allows for protecting the naked 
mRNA and facilitating merging with the lipid cell 
membrane:https://www.nature.com/articles/s41578-021-00358-0 


   
 Why would tissue distribution be any different in a human than a rat or a dog? 
 Has that been shown to be case with other vaccines?


I'm not arguing it's different.   It's likely the same; that's the point.   
Widespread tissue distribution of spike protein mRNA is NOT a good thing, and 
completely unnecessary to facilitate a robust immune reaction.    Again, Pfizer 
and Moderna do not want to see this distribution.   In their ideal scenario, 
the only cells producing spike protein are in the localized injection site.-- 
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Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-17 Thread Stathis Papaioannou

On Sun, 18 Dec 2022 at 13:09, Dylan Distasio  wrote:

>
>
> On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 8:38 PM Brent Meeker 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Why would you want the vaccine to stay in your left bicep?  Does someone
>> suppose that a pertussis, or measles or polio vaccine just stayed in one
>> tissue?  And the word "nanoparticle" is misleading.  I believe the mRNA
>> molecules are in a fluid droplet; not some solid particle.
>>
>
> Why, because the way vaccines have worked pre-mRNA is that dendretic cells
> in the local injection area take up the antigen and present it to T-cells
> in the lymphatic system.   At that point the immune system is primed.
>
> The question of tissue distribution becomes much more important with mRNA
> vaccines because any cell that takes it up is going to produce the spike
> protein and be attacked by the immune system, meaning for example that if a
> large number of heart cells took it up and expressed spike protein, they
> are going to be attacked by the immune system as infected potentially
> leading to inflammation and other undesired side effects.
>

The coronavirus infects multiple tisssues in body, and almost every
possible side-effect of vaccines, including rare ones such as myocarditis,
are worse with the viral infection. This is what you would expect: viruses
are parasites than invade the body and take over cells to make them produce
more viruses, while vaccines are dead or attenuated viruses or a tiny part
of the virus.

The makers of mRNA vaccines would certainly hope that the mRNA stays
> localized to the injection site; you will certainly not find them
> trumpeting the idea that it is a good thing for them to go all over the
> body.You are risking inflammation and damage in any tissue they get
> into with a high level of distribution (more on possible mechanisms of
> action regarding myocarditis here
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8607534/).
>
> Nanoparticle is not misleading.   It is industry standard verbiage.   The
> mRNA is encapsulated in lipid nanoparticles which allows for protecting the
> naked mRNA and facilitating merging with the lipid cell membrane:
> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41578-021-00358-0
>
>
>>
>> Why would tissue distribution be any different in a human than a rat or a
>> dog?  Has that been shown to be case with other vaccines?
>>
>
> I'm not arguing it's different.   It's likely the same; that's the point.
>  Widespread tissue distribution of spike protein mRNA is NOT a good thing,
> and completely unnecessary to facilitate a robust immune reaction.
> Again, Pfizer and Moderna do not want to see this distribution.   In their
> ideal scenario, the only cells producing spike protein are in the localized
> injection site.
>
> --
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> 
> .
>
-- 
Stathis Papaioannou

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Re: Death, science, and politics

Well, the thing is scientifically is not to do what the dem-progressives do 
which is demand that everyone get vaccinated, but to have some biological 
screening done to prevent those with medical-genetic dispositions to be harmed 
by vaccination damage, to not be subjected to a death warrant? 
Why not insist on everyone with a peanut allergy be forced to eat peanuts 
because you make money off of peanut plantations. 
Now is there a means of indicating whether one has a likelihood to a bad 
reaction from mRNA drugs? Or, is there a thing between one political party 
receiving donation$ from Pfizer and Moderna? There may not be!!!
But let the governor do his work to identify if some people should never have 
these vaccinations, and go about with masks on as a precaution, and maybe have 
a better shot at life by being given paxlovid after the get the Covid? 

My Takeaway? Not everything, all the time be seen through a 
political-ideological lense. 

-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sat, Dec 17, 2022 8:01 pm
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 6:43 PM Dylan Distasio  wrote:

> The risk/reward calculation on vaccination versus risking natural infection 
> is not the same for all cohorts, which I'm sure you understand. 

Tucker Carlson made a big stink on his silly Fox show when he said 4863 people 
died shortly after receiving a Covid shot. What he said was true but what he 
didn't say was that more than 285 MILLION shots had been administered so that's 
just 0.0017% , and he didn't mention that 80% of those were over 60 years old, 
and he didn't mention that number included those who died from any cause 
including car crashes and lightning strikes, and he didn't mention that not a 
single one of those 4863 deaths has been conclusively linked to the Covid shot. 
And he didn't mention that the Covid vaccine has saved an estimated 3 million 
lives in the US and 20 million lives worldwide. 
20% of the US population (nearly all members of the Republican death cult) has 
still not received one single Covid shot, do you seriously believe the world 
would be a better place if that percentage was even higher? Do we really need 
more vaccine skepticism? 
John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis 
8ha

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Re: Death, science, and politics

JC is 100% correct upon his Hypersonic Missile comment, save that Hypersonic 
Cruise Missiles was something we in the US didn't push for because why do 
OverKill? JC was and is correct that regular ICBM's go into space and use 
MIRV's to hit their targets at speeds faster than Hypersonic missiles 17.5 MPH 
(25 KPH) and Hypersonics only do 13.5 KPH. However, their trick is swerving in 
mid air to avoid being hit by incoming anti-missiles. Joey is now perfecting 
Hypersonics for the US as a long-delayed reply. 
Because as the generals in the Pentagon noted, increasing bombs is simply, 
"making the rubble bounce," This would be in a biotically dead, radioactive 
world. 
Yes to what money seems to do with people's behavior, and yes to human greed, 
and yes to how the CCP uses bribes to get their way with all. 

Here from the US Consulate 3 years ago nearly-
https://hk.usconsulate.gov/n-2020103001/
A recent psycho 
studyhttps://www.researchgate.net/publication/322476552_The_Social_Psychology_of_Corruption
My point is, if this is how many or most human being really are, then this is 
what we have to work with, we will just have to do our best. Not everyone can 
be a National Merit Scholar or a Fields Prize winner. We'll just have to do our 
best by pooling what feeble talents we possess and achieve what we can as a 
species? Greased palms and all...
Again JC, if we choke on it by refusing vaccinations then this is on us 
feeble-minded folk. However, I contend that Progressive Policy will anger the 
common folk who were ok with Joe in 2020 and 2022. Thus we will pick votes even 
though we through our blindness are now demised! We also are now good with 
letting complete foreigners vote, as long as they vote for us. In return, they 
get to bring their families here and they get jobs too!''   We too will do 
ballot harvesting and win the day. 
To grease your skids, JC,  I will push (along with others) making abortion less 
attractive then building artificial wombs! Thus retaining the Christian voter 
and promoting a new moral answer for humankind. 
https://studyfinds.org/ectolife-artificial-womb-facility-lab-grown-babies/
Think of it John, a womb with a view! Welcome, Welcome one and all to Jurassic 
Park!

-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: spudboy...@aol.com
Cc: everything-list@googlegroups.com ; 
goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com 
Sent: Sat, Dec 17, 2022 6:14 pm
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 5:58 PM  wrote:

> There have been many deaths, unexpected, with those who are young, and [blah 
> blah blah]

I repeat, the statistics couldn't be clearer, those who believe in your 
philosophy regarding vaccination and that of DeSantis tend to die, and those 
who believe in my philosophy and that of Joe Biden and the overwhelming 
consensus of the scientific community tend to live. 
> Joey and Family took bribes from the CCP, and [blah blah blah]

According to Mr. Spudboy all human behavior and all human history can be 
understood simply by knowing who bribed who. 
 > the CCP built hypersonic missiles for a 1st strike on the US,

Old news, hypersonic missiles and first strike capability has been around for 
60 years. 
John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

rva
8uf

ih

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Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-17 Thread Dylan Distasio

On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 8:38 PM Brent Meeker  wrote:

>
> Why would you want the vaccine to stay in your left bicep?  Does someone
> suppose that a pertussis, or measles or polio vaccine just stayed in one
> tissue?  And the word "nanoparticle" is misleading.  I believe the mRNA
> molecules are in a fluid droplet; not some solid particle.
>

Why, because the way vaccines have worked pre-mRNA is that dendretic cells
in the local injection area take up the antigen and present it to T-cells
in the lymphatic system.   At that point the immune system is primed.

The question of tissue distribution becomes much more important with mRNA
vaccines because any cell that takes it up is going to produce the spike
protein and be attacked by the immune system, meaning for example that if a
large number of heart cells took it up and expressed spike protein, they
are going to be attacked by the immune system as infected potentially
leading to inflammation and other undesired side effects.

The makers of mRNA vaccines would certainly hope that the mRNA stays
localized to the injection site; you will certainly not find them
trumpeting the idea that it is a good thing for them to go all over the
body.You are risking inflammation and damage in any tissue they get
into with a high level of distribution (more on possible mechanisms of
action regarding myocarditis here
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8607534/).

Nanoparticle is not misleading.   It is industry standard verbiage.   The
mRNA is encapsulated in lipid nanoparticles which allows for protecting the
naked mRNA and facilitating merging with the lipid cell membrane:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41578-021-00358-0

>
> Why would tissue distribution be any different in a human than a rat or a
> dog?  Has that been shown to be case with other vaccines?
>

I'm not arguing it's different.   It's likely the same; that's the point.
 Widespread tissue distribution of spike protein mRNA is NOT a good thing,
and completely unnecessary to facilitate a robust immune reaction.
Again, Pfizer and Moderna do not want to see this distribution.   In their
ideal scenario, the only cells producing spike protein are in the localized
injection site.

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Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-17 Thread Brent Meeker




On 12/17/2022 3:01 PM, Dylan Distasio wrote:
There are plenty of reputable researchers and MDs who have raised 
concerns over the safety of mRNA nanoparticles as a delivery vehicle; 
it's not necessary to go to the Epoch times to find these concerns, 
and it's not a conspiracy theory.


It is pretty clear at this point that the nanoparticles in many cases 
do not stay localized and get into other tissues.


Why would you want the vaccine to stay in your left bicep?  Does someone 
suppose that a pertussis, or measles or polio vaccine just stayed in one 
tissue?  And the word "nanoparticle" is misleading.  I believe the mRNA 
molecules are in a fluid droplet; not some solid particle.


In fact, a tissue distribution study in animals is in the original 
application paperwork which shows that the nanoparticle delivery 
system goes to nearly every tissue in the body.

Sounds good.

 No studies on tissue distribution of the nanoparticles WITH payload, 
particularly in humans, was conducted to my knowledge prior to 
approval which is a big red flag.
Why would tissue distribution be any different in a human than a rat or 
a dog?  Has that been shown to be case with other vaccines?




This is from BMJ which you hopefully hold in higher regard than the 
Epoch Times:


For COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine (Pfizer or Moderna), the biodistribution 
studies in animals were not conducted. *The surrogate studies with 
luciferase and solid-lipid nanoparticles (Pfizer) confirm a 
biodistribution to the liver and other body tissues beyond the 
administration site [5]. For Moderna, the biodistribution of mRNA-1647 
(encoding CMV genes) formulated in a similar lipid nanoparticulate 
delivery system confirms a biodistribution beyond the injection site, 
in particular, the distribution to the lymph nodes, spleen and the eye 
was noted [6].* However, the detailed tissue-specific distribution of 
mRNA vaccines encoding SARS-CoV-2 spike proteins (Pfizer or Moderna) 
is not fully known that can offer invaluable insights into the 
potential safety of these vaccines in peoples with pre-existing 
conditions or those on certain medications.


The detailed biodistribution data including pharmacokinetics of 
various CoViD vaccines were not conducted by the vaccine manufacturers 
because the studies demonstrating biodistribution of antigens were 
considered ‘not required' by the regulatory authorities on the premise 
that
How do you know that was the premise.  Maybe the premise was that the 
vaccines would distribute just like historical vaccines.


Brent


vaccines work by an immunological response than the classic 
pharmacological approach. *However, such an exemption may barely 
justify the conventional vaccines such as those incorporating whole 
inactivated virus, split virion, or the sub-unit vaccines, that 
directly attracts an immune response post-injection.*


bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n958/rr-1 



There were also modifications made to the mRNA to make it more stable 
which were not tested in humans prior to the initial vaccine trials.


At that point, you have a spike protein (which appears to be toxic in 
and of itself to cells) being potentially distributed via mRNA to 
multiple tissues where beyond causing havoc from production of the 
spike protein directly, you have additional risk of autoimmune 
disorders occurring.


Caution in widespread rollout of these vaccines would have been 
advisable, particularly when you look at the IFR from Covid-19 in 
younger, healthy cohorts.   This is not conspiracy theory stuff; there 
are a lot of unknowns with this particular tech, and a number of 
European countries, particularly Scandinavian ones, (unlike the US 
where Big Pharma money talks even more loudly) have become more 
conservative with their recommendations on vaccinating / boosting 
children.


There was also a concerted effort from government and the press to 
block all discussion on these potential risks, and to destroy the 
livelihood of anyone who raised them.   This is not the way science is 
supposed to be conducted.


We were also told in the beginning by US government agencies (it's on 
the record if you care to look it up) that these vaccines would do a 
very good job of stopping transmission.   We all know now that was a 
falsehood as they are incredibly leaky.


In aggregate, there are a large number of troubling red flags over how 
this rollout was handled by various government agencies.   It should 
not have been a one size fits all solution based on disparate IFRs in 
different cohorts based on age/comorbidities combined with very leaky 
vaccines, and there certainly shouldn't have been any mandates.


This is another more recent note published in the BMJ discussing 
risk/reward in younger cohorts:
COVID-19 vaccine boosters for young adults: a risk benefit assessment 
and ethical analysis of mandate policies at universities


Abstract
In 2022, students at North American

Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-17 Thread John Clark

On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 6:43 PM Dylan Distasio  wrote:

*> The risk/reward calculation on vaccination versus risking natural
> infection is not the same for all cohorts, which I'm sure you understand. *
>

Tucker Carlson made a big stink on his silly Fox show when he said 4863
people died shortly after receiving a Covid shot. What he said was true but
what he didn't say was that more than 285 MILLION shots had been
administered so that's just 0.0017% , and he didn't mention that 80% of
those were over 60 years old, and he didn't mention that number included
those who died from any cause including car crashes and lightning strikes,
and he didn't mention that not a single one of those 4863 deaths has been
conclusively linked to the Covid shot. And he didn't mention that the Covid
vaccine has saved an estimated 3 million lives in the US and 20 million
lives worldwide.

20% of the US population (nearly all members of the Republican death cult)
has still not received one single Covid shot, do you seriously believe the
world would be a better place if that percentage was even higher? Do we
really need more vaccine skepticism?

John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis
<https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>
8ha

>

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Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-17 Thread Dylan Distasio

The risk/reward calculation on vaccination versus risking natural infection
is not the same for all cohorts, which I'm sure you understand.   Your
assertion is not accurate for young cohorts which is what the
second BMJ article speaks to.

On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 6:30 PM John Clark  wrote:

> On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 6:25 PM Dylan Distasio 
> wrote:
>
> *> Not all cohorts are equal in regard to Covid-19, so with apologies,
>> it's not as simple as that.*
>>
>
> No, some things are EXACTLY as simple as that. Those who are suspicious
> of the COVID-19 vaccine tend to die and those that aren't don't.
> John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis
> 
>
> mwx
>
>
> --
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> 
> .
>

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Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-17 Thread John Clark

On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 6:25 PM Dylan Distasio  wrote:

*> Not all cohorts are equal in regard to Covid-19, so with apologies, it's
> not as simple as that.*
>

No, some things are EXACTLY as simple as that. Those who are suspicious of
the COVID-19 vaccine tend to die and those that aren't don't.
John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis

mwx

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Re: Death, science, and politics

The problem is, Mr. D. is that he peeps on the mailing list here go by ideology 
and the ideology is Progressive, where human concerns be damned ideological 
faith and loyalty is #1. It's not about the science it's about the "faith." For 
me personally? I am a Pfizer enthusiast, unsure of Moderna, and in both cases 
worried about young people croaking without cause. Please note, that these guys 
rock when discussing Alice & Bob experiments, but simply cannot let their 
emotions be uncontrolled when dealing outside their ideology. 
Me? A bit different. For politics, I switched from Trumpo to DeSantis for 2 
reasons, which are, Trump couldn't prove election fraud, and DeSantis does so 
more, with so much less. He is my Go-To guy. He is also not the ego that Donny 
was. Could I ever vote Dem again? Maybe, but they'd have to be better than the 
progressive and globalist scuzzos that proggies are now.
Policies are the only things that matter. So..For me?Good on Vaxing, but good 
on seeing for bad side effects.Good on solar. But interested in other energy 
makers.Likes battery power.Good on doing space mining as a economic and social 
fix.Good on Basic research funding but see engineering to be made real. If lab 
stuff stays in the lab, meh!Other policies can get argued later.Foreign 
Policies-Afraid of Putin and Xi. See these as a deliberately existential 
threat. 
But that's on just me, and I try not to get beyond tech, or cosmology, which is 
more, uplifting.
Spud. 


-Original Message-
From: Dylan Distasio 
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sat, Dec 17, 2022 6:01 pm
Subject: Re: Death, science, and politics

There are plenty of reputable researchers and MDs who have raised concerns over 
the safety of mRNA nanoparticles as a delivery vehicle; it's not necessary to 
go to the Epoch times to find these concerns, and it's not a conspiracy theory.
It is pretty clear at this point that the nanoparticles in many cases do not 
stay localized and get into other tissues.   In fact, a tissue distribution 
study in animals is in the original application paperwork which shows that the 
nanoparticle delivery system goes to nearly every tissue in the body.   No 
studies on tissue distribution of the nanoparticles WITH payload, particularly 
in humans, was conducted to my knowledge prior to approval which is a big red 
flag.
This is from BMJ which you hopefully hold in higher regard than the Epoch Times:
For COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine (Pfizer or Moderna), the biodistribution studies in 
animals were not conducted. The surrogate studies with luciferase and 
solid-lipid nanoparticles (Pfizer) confirm a biodistribution to the liver and 
other body tissues beyond the administration site [5]. For Moderna, the 
biodistribution of mRNA-1647 (encoding CMV genes) formulated in a similar lipid 
nanoparticulate delivery system confirms a biodistribution beyond the injection 
site, in particular, the distribution to the lymph nodes, spleen and the eye 
was noted [6]. However, the detailed tissue-specific distribution of mRNA 
vaccines encoding SARS-CoV-2 spike proteins (Pfizer or Moderna) is not fully 
known that can offer invaluable insights into the potential safety of these 
vaccines in peoples with pre-existing conditions or those on certain 
medications.

The detailed biodistribution data including pharmacokinetics of various CoViD 
vaccines were not conducted by the vaccine manufacturers because the studies 
demonstrating biodistribution of antigens were considered ‘not required' by the 
regulatory authorities on the premise that vaccines work by an immunological 
response than the classic pharmacological approach. However, such an exemption 
may barely justify the conventional vaccines such as those incorporating whole 
inactivated virus, split virion, or the sub-unit vaccines, that directly 
attracts an immune response post-injection.

bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n958/rr-1

There were also modifications made to the mRNA to make it more stable which 
were not tested in humans prior to the initial vaccine trials.
At that point, you have a spike protein (which appears to be toxic in and of 
itself to cells) being potentially distributed via mRNA to multiple tissues 
where beyond causing havoc from production of the spike protein directly, you 
have additional risk of autoimmune disorders occurring.
Caution in widespread rollout of these vaccines would have been advisable, 
particularly when you look at the IFR from Covid-19 in younger, healthy 
cohorts.   This is not conspiracy theory stuff; there are a lot of unknowns 
with this particular tech, and a number of European countries, particularly 
Scandinavian ones, (unlike the US where Big Pharma money talks even more 
loudly) have become more conservative with their recommendations on vaccinating 
/ boosting children.
There was also a concerted effort from government and the press to block all 
discussion on these potential risks, and to destroy the liveli

Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-17 Thread Dylan Distasio

You may be fine placing people, including yourself, into oversimplified
buckets, but how do you even know what my philosophy is.   Not all issues
are black and white, and some nuance is required to set proper ethical
public policy.

Not all cohorts are equal in regard to Covid-19, so with apologies, it's
not as simple as that.


On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 6:19 PM John Clark  wrote:

>
>
> On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 6:01 PM Dylan Distasio 
> wrote:
>
> *> There are plenty of reputable researchers and MDs who have raised
>> concerns over the safety of mRNA*
>>
>
> That's all very nice but I repeat, the statistics couldn't be clearer,
> those who believe in your philosophy regarding mRNA and that of DeSantis
> tend to die, and those who believe in my philosophy and that of Joe Biden
> the overwhelming consensus of the scientific community tend to live. It's
> as simple as that.  John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at
> Extropolis 
> arn
>
>
>> --
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> 
> .
>

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Re: Death, science, and politics

2022-12-17 Thread John Clark

On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 6:01 PM Dylan Distasio  wrote:

*> There are plenty of reputable researchers and MDs who have raised
> concerns over the safety of mRNA*
>

That's all very nice but I repeat, the statistics couldn't be clearer,
those who believe in your philosophy regarding mRNA and that of DeSantis
tend to die, and those who believe in my philosophy and that of Joe Biden
the overwhelming consensus of the scientific community tend to live. It's
as simple as that.  John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis

arn

>

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Re: Death, science, and politics