Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-02-20 Thread Bruno Marchal
Hi Hal, You say my theory is a subset of yours. I don't understand. I have no theory, just a deductive argument that IF we are (digital) machine then the physical world is in our head. Then I show how a Universal Turing Machine can discover it in its own head. This makes comp, or variants,

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-02-20 Thread John Mikes
Thanks, Bruno, lots of remarkable notions in your remarks (I mean: I can write remarks to them 0 sorry for the pun). Let me interject in Italics below. John On 2/5/07, Bruno Marchal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi John, Le 03-févr.-07, à 17:20, John Mikes a écrit : Stathis, Bruno, This

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-02-20 Thread Hal Ruhl
Hi Bruno: As to my grasp of the UDA I think I understood it at one time well enough for my purpose but that will become clearer as I progress through my model. There are not too many more steps. Examining the complete list of possible properties of objects we should find Empty of all

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-02-19 Thread Bruno Marchal
Le 18-févr.-07, à 03:33, Hal Ruhl a écrit : Hi Bruno: In response I will start with some assumptions central to my approach. The first has to do with the process of making a list. The assumption is: Making a list of items [which could be some of the elements of a set for example] is

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-02-19 Thread Hal Ruhl
Hi Bruno: At 05:43 AM 2/19/2007, you wrote: Le 18-févr.-07, à 03:33, Hal Ruhl a écrit : Hi Bruno: In response I will start with some assumptions central to my approach. The first has to do with the process of making a list. The assumption is: Making a list of items [which

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-02-17 Thread Hal Ruhl
Hi Bruno: In response I will start with some assumptions central to my approach. The first has to do with the process of making a list. The assumption is: Making a list of items [which could be some of the elements of a set for example] is always a process of making a one to one mapping of

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-02-17 Thread Hal Ruhl
: Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds Hi Bruno: I was using some of the main components of my model to indicate that it allows white rabbits of all degree. Any succession of states is allowed. If the presence of SAS in certain successions requires a certain family of white rabbit distributions

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-02-12 Thread Bruno Marchal
Hi Hal, Le 12-févr.-07, à 03:37, Hal Ruhl a écrit : Hi Bruno: I was using some of the main components of my model to indicate that it allows white rabbits of all degree. Any succession of states is allowed. If the presence of SAS in certain successions requires a certain family of

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-02-11 Thread Hal Ruhl
Hi Bruno: I was using some of the main components of my model to indicate that it allows white rabbits of all degree. Any succession of states is allowed. If the presence of SAS in certain successions requires a certain family of white rabbit distributions then these distributions are

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-02-09 Thread Bruno Marchal
Le 06-févr.-07, à 03:06, Russell Standish a écrit : The informatic destructive effects are due to conflicting information reducing the total amount of information. Perhaps you could expand? Bruno http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-02-09 Thread Bruno Marchal
Le 07-févr.-07, à 02:45, Hal Ruhl a écrit : Given an uncountably infinite number of objects generated from a countably infinite list of properties and an uncountably infinite number of UD's in the metaphor I can not see an issue with this re my model.  As I said above Our World can be

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-02-08 Thread John Mikes
are in a pretty liquid exchange-state (liquid OM). Otherwise the idea is excellent, with multiple choice. John - Original Message - From: Hal Ruhl [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 8:49 PM Subject: Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds Hi John

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-02-07 Thread John M
are in a pretty liquid exchange-state (liquid OM). Otherwise the idea is excellent, with multiple choice. John - Original Message - From: Hal Ruhl To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 8:49 PM Subject: Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds Hi John: Long ago

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-02-07 Thread Hal Ruhl
). Otherwise the idea is excellent, with multiple choice. John - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Hal Ruhl To: mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.comeverything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 8:49 PM Subject: Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds Hi John: Long ago

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-02-06 Thread Bruno Marchal
Le 06-févr.-07, à 05:25, Stathis Papaioannou a écrit : Hal Ruhl writes:   Hi Bruno: I do not think I fully understand what you are saying. Suppose your model bans white rabbits from its evolving universes - meaning I take it that all successive states are fully logical

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-02-06 Thread John M
and Many-Worlds Hi Bruno: I do not think I fully understand what you are saying. Suppose your model bans white rabbits from its evolving universes - meaning I take it that all successive states are fully logical consequences of their prior state. I would see this as a selection of one

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-02-06 Thread Russell Standish
On Tue, Feb 06, 2007 at 12:23:19PM +0100, Bruno Marchal wrote: It *could* be the contrary. In quantum mechanics a case can be given that it *is* the contrary. It is by taking the full set of (relative histories) that the quantum phase randomization can eliminate the quantum aberrant

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-02-06 Thread Hal Ruhl
Hi Bruno: At 06:23 AM 2/6/2007, you wrote: Le 06-févr.-07, à 05:25, Stathis Papaioannou a écrit : Hal Ruhl writes: Hi Bruno: I do not think I fully understand what you are saying. Suppose your model bans white rabbits from its evolving universes - meaning I take it that all

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-02-06 Thread Hal Ruhl
- Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Hal Ruhl To: mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.comeverything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 10:24 PM Subject: Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds Hi Bruno: I do not think I fully understand what you are saying. Suppose your

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-02-06 Thread Hal Ruhl
Just to clarify - in the metaphor a UD trace that assigns a Hyper Existence of say 0.2 does so to all states it lands on because the UD is that type of UD. Hal Ruhl --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-02-05 Thread Bruno Marchal
Hi John, Le 03-févr.-07, à 17:20, John Mikes a écrit : Stathis, Bruno, This summary sounds fine if I accept to 'let words go'. Is there a way to 'understand' (=use with comprehension) the 'words' used here without the 'technical' acceptance of the theoretical platform? I am not

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-02-05 Thread Jason
On Feb 2, 10:03 am, Bruno Marchal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is a bit ambiguous. The UD dovetails on all computations. Let us write (comp i k j) for k-th step of computation i on input j. One computation can then be identified (in a first approximation at least) with a sequence like:

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-02-05 Thread Bruno Marchal
Hi jason, Le 05-févr.-07, à 17:05, Jason a écrit : On Feb 2, 10:03 am, Bruno Marchal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is a bit ambiguous. The UD dovetails on all computations. Let us write (comp i k j) for k-th step of computation i on input j. One computation can then be identified (in a

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-02-05 Thread Bruno Marchal
Le 05-févr.-07, à 00:46, Hal Ruhl a écrit : As far as I can tell from this, my model may include Bruno's model as a subset. This means that even if my theory makes disappear all (1-person) white rabbits, you will still have to justify that your overset does not reintroduce new one.

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-02-05 Thread Bruno Marchal
So now we have to find some way sto tackle the problem of finding the right level of abstraction to pursue ... Bruno Le 03-févr.-07, à 10:05, Stathis Papaioannou a écrit : Bruno Marchal writes: What is correct, and has been singled out by Stathis, is that comp eludes the material

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-02-05 Thread Hal Ruhl
Hi Bruno: I do not think I fully understand what you are saying. Suppose your model bans white rabbits from its evolving universes - meaning I take it that all successive states are fully logical consequences of their prior state. I would see this as a selection of one possibility from two.

RE: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-02-05 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
Hal Ruhl writes: Hi Bruno: I do not think I fully understand what you are saying. Suppose your model bans white rabbits from its evolving universes - meaning I take it that all successive states are fully logical consequences of their prior state. You mean physical consequences or

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-02-04 Thread Hal Ruhl
model may include Bruno's model as a subset. Yours Hal Ruhl - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Hal Ruhl To: mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.comeverything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 11:02 PM Subject: RE: ASSA and Many-Worlds One thing that I do

RE: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-02-03 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
Bruno Marchal writes: What is correct, and has been singled out by Stathis, is that comp eludes the material implementation problem, given that we take all abstract possible relationship between those objects, and they are all well defined as purely number theoretical relations. Note that

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-02-03 Thread John Mikes
Stathis, Bruno, This summary sounds fine if I accept to 'let words go'. Is there a way to 'understand' (=use with comprehension) the 'words' used here without the 'technical' acceptance of the theoretical platform? There are sacrosanct 'words' used without explaining them (over and over again?,

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-02-02 Thread Bruno Marchal
Le 01-févr.-07, à 18:46, Brent Meeker a écrit : Bruno Marchal wrote: Le 29-janv.-07, à 18:19, Brent Meeker a écrit : Bruno Marchal wrote: Le 28-janv.-07, à 20:21, Brent Meeker a écrit : OK, but that means observer moments are not fundamental and the illusion of their continuity may

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-02-01 Thread Jason
On Feb 1, 11:46 am, Brent Meeker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bruno Marchal wrote: Le 29-janv.-07, à 18:19, Brent Meeker a écrit : Bruno Marchal wrote: Le 28-janv.-07, à 20:21, Brent Meeker a écrit : OK, but that means observer moments are not fundamental and the illusion of their

RE: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-02-01 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
Brent Meeker writes: Bruno Marchal wrote: Le 29-janv.-07, à 18:19, Brent Meeker a écrit : Bruno Marchal wrote: Le 28-janv.-07, à 20:21, Brent Meeker a écrit : OK, but that means observer moments are not fundamental and the illusion of their continuity may be provided by

RE: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-29 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
Brent Meeker writes: Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 21:57:15 -0800 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds Stathis Papaioannou wrote: Brent Meeker writes: OK, but that means observer moments are not fundamental and the illusion

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-29 Thread Bruno Marchal
Le 28-janv.-07, à 20:21, Brent Meeker a écrit : OK, but that means observer moments are not fundamental and the illusion of their continuity may be provided by the continuity of their underpinning. But I don't see how a strictly stepwise discrete process as contemplated in the UD can

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-29 Thread Bruno Marchal
Le 29-janv.-07, à 00:11, Jason Resch a écrit : Thanks, that was an interesting read.  I find it surprising how many people find MWI so disturbing, perhaps it is the pessimists always assuming the worst is happening.  Instead of focusing on the good or bad, I look at the variety it

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-29 Thread Brent Meeker
Stathis Papaioannou wrote: Brent Meeker writes: Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 21:57:15 -0800 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds Stathis Papaioannou wrote: Brent Meeker writes: OK, but that means observer

RE: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-28 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
Brent Meeker writes: Stathis Papaioannou wrote: Brent Meeker writes: This raises the question again of what is the minimum duration of a conscious state? You mention 5sec as being a long time for a coincidental match (would there still be two consciousnesses for that 5sec

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-28 Thread Jason Resch
some evidence for MW from quantum mechanics, but were it not for this, we could easily class MW along with pink elephants as something very unlikely which cannot be rescued by the ASSA. If many-worlds is true, consider for a second how many histories lines (and copies of you) must have been

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-28 Thread Brent Meeker
Stathis Papaioannou wrote: Brent Meeker writes: Stathis Papaioannou wrote: Brent Meeker writes: This raises the question again of what is the minimum duration of a conscious state? You mention 5sec as being a long time for a coincidental match (would there still

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-28 Thread Brent Meeker
not necessarily mean that thing is likely or even possible. As it happens there is perhaps some evidence for MW from quantum mechanics, but were it not for this, we could easily class MW along with pink elephants as something very unlikely which cannot be rescued by the ASSA. If many-worlds is true

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-28 Thread Jason Resch
On 1/28/07, Brent Meeker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think this is the way to look at it. It's true that QM predicts an uncountably infinite number of branchings, even for an universe containing only a single unstable particle. But these branchings don't produce different copies of

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-28 Thread Russell Standish
On Sun, Jan 28, 2007 at 03:36:24PM +1100, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: Russell Standish writes: There is good reason to suppose that the absolute measure of an observer moment is inversely proportional to the exponential of the OM's complexity (this is discussed elsewhere in my book). In

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-28 Thread Russell Standish
On Sun, Jan 28, 2007 at 04:42:48AM -, Jason wrote: I agree that regardless of the creation or destruction of other copies, there is no reason for there ever to be any effect on first person experience, that means no funny feelings, no loss of consciousness, etc. RSSA Proponents:

RE: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-28 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
Brent Meeker writes: Assuming that consciousness supervenes on the physics, this follows just from the continuity of the physics. But it doesn't follow that there is some experience corresponding to 1msec of brain processing - it might be that seeing the flash spans some

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-28 Thread Brent Meeker
Stathis Papaioannou wrote: Brent Meeker writes: Assuming that consciousness supervenes on the physics, this follows just from the continuity of the physics. But it doesn't follow that there is some experience corresponding to 1msec of brain processing - it might be that

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-28 Thread Brent Meeker
Stathis Papaioannou wrote: Brent Meeker writes (quoting Jason Resch): If many-worlds is true, consider for a second how many histories lines (and copies of you) must have been created by now. The universe had been branching into untold numbers of copies, untold numbers of

RE: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-28 Thread Hal Ruhl
One thing that I do not agree with is what seems to me to be a common holding regarding observer moments [by this I mean discrete states of universes [which are a sub set of possible objects]] is that they are each so far assumed to have a set of properties that are to some extent the same

RE: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-28 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
Brent Meeker writes: OK, but that means observer moments are not fundamental and the illusion of their continuity may be provided by the continuity of their underpinning. But I don't see how a strictly stepwise discrete process as contemplated in the UD can provide that

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-28 Thread Brent Meeker
Stathis Papaioannou wrote: Brent Meeker writes: OK, but that means observer moments are not fundamental and the illusion of their continuity may be provided by the continuity of their underpinning. But I don't see how a strictly stepwise discrete process as contemplated in

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-27 Thread Jason
Brent meeker writes: This raises the question again of what is the minimum duration of a conscious state? You mention 5sec as being a long time for a coincidental match (would there still be two consciousnesses for that 5sec - I think not), but what about 300msec, or 100msec. There's

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-27 Thread William
On Jan 25, 3:50 am, Russell Standish [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Jan 26, 2007 at 03:54:32PM -0500, John M wrote: PS I still would appreciate to be directed to a short text explaining the essence of ASSA (RSSA?). JIt is in my book. Here is the relevant excerpt: \section[ASSA vs

RE: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-27 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
Brent Meeker writes: Perhaps even in a minimally conscious state your experiences are specific enough to distinguish them from those of everyone else in a superficially similar state. But what if, through amazing coincidence, you had a 5 second period of consciousness which exactly

RE: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-27 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
William Vandenberghe writes: On Jan 25, 3:50 am, Russell Standish [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Jan 26, 2007 at 03:54:32PM -0500, John M wrote: PS I still would appreciate to be directed to a short text explaining the essence of ASSA (RSSA?). JIt is in my book. Here is the relevant

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-27 Thread William
On Jan 27, 12:24 pm, Stathis Papaioannou [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: William Vandenberghe writes: On Jan 25, 3:50 am, Russell Standish [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Jan 26, 2007 at 03:54:32PM -0500, John M wrote: PS I still would appreciate to be directed to a short text

RE: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-27 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
William Vandenberghe writes:[SP]Suppose for simplicity that there is only one world: you live your life from birth to death and that's it. God reveals to you that you will live to be 100, but on your 50th birthday he will create a zillion copies of you which will all run in parallel for one

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-27 Thread John Mikes
Thanks, Russell. I believe my slip is showing that I did not follow the Mallah related posts. If someone concentrates on just certain topics, may miss something. You are very kind John On 1/24/07, Russell Standish [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Jan 26, 2007 at 03:54:32PM -0500, John M

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-27 Thread Brent Meeker
Stathis Papaioannou wrote: Brent Meeker writes: Perhaps even in a minimally conscious state your experiences are specific enough to distinguish them from those of everyone else in a superficially similar state. But what if, through amazing coincidence, you had a 5 second period

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-27 Thread Jason Resch
On 1/27/07, Stathis Papaioannou [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: According to the RSSA, *nothing* happens from your POV when you turn 50. Given that you are already alive, you are going to experience the moments of your life in order and each one will last the same amount of time, however many

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-27 Thread John M
Subject: RE: ASSA and Many-Worlds John, I guess my brain is generating my consciousness, but I regard this as a contingent fact. My conciousness is that which I experience, and if I found myself continuing to have similar experiences despite teleportation, brain transplant, resurrection

RE: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-27 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
Brent Meeker writes:This raises the question again of what is the minimum duration of a conscious state? You mention 5sec as being a long time for a coincidental match (would there still be two consciousnesses for that 5sec - I think not), but what about 300msec, or 100msec. There's

RE: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-27 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
It's true that if every entity assumes it is common, more entities overall are going to be correct. However, what is the relevance of this to first person experience? The ASSA has been used on this list as an argument against quantum immortality, on the grounds that since the measure of

RE: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-27 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
. But, alas, so are the lists Have a good weekend John - Original Message - From: Stathis Papaioannou To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 10:55 PM Subject: RE: ASSA and Many-Worlds John, I guess my brain is generating my

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-27 Thread Russell Standish
On Sat, Jan 27, 2007 at 04:11:00AM -0800, William wrote: Your replys are really difficult for me to read, something seems to go wrong in their formatting. Me too! ASSA predicts you are most likely to be thinking that you are 50, and if any random consciousness thinks he is 50 years of

RE: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-27 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
Russell Standish writes: There is good reason to suppose that the absolute measure of an observer moment is inversely proportional to the exponential of the OM's complexity (this is discussed elsewhere in my book). In such a case, newborn OM's have vastly greater likelihood of being

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-27 Thread Jason
On Jan 27, 9:02 pm, Stathis Papaioannou [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's true that if every entity assumes it is common, more entities overall are going to be correct. However, what is the relevance of this to first person experience? The ASSA has been used on this list as an argument against

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-27 Thread Brent Meeker
Stathis Papaioannou wrote: Brent Meeker writes: This raises the question again of what is the minimum duration of a conscious state? You mention 5sec as being a long time for a coincidental match (would there still be two consciousnesses for that 5sec - I think not), but what

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-26 Thread John M
personal existence with 'the rest of the world'. I expect that you may provide useful hooks for me in such respect. John - Original Message - From: Stathis Papaioannou To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 7:08 AM Subject: RE: ASSA and Many

RE: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-26 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
John Mikes writes: Stathis: your concluding sentence is But my brain just won't let me think this way. * Have you been carried away? Who is your brain to make decisions upon you? (maybe you mean only that the mechanism of your brain, the main tool YOU use in mental activity, is not

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-26 Thread Brent Meeker
Stathis Papaioannou wrote: Brent Meeker writes: Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 17:00:11 -0800 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds Stathis Papaioannou wrote: Johnathan Corgan writes: Stathis Papaioannou

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-26 Thread John M
Stathis: interesting. See my additional question after your reply John - Original Message - From: Stathis Papaioannou To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 9:03 AM Subject: RE: ASSA and Many-Worlds John Mikes writes: Stathis: your

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-26 Thread Russell Standish
On Fri, Jan 26, 2007 at 03:54:32PM -0500, John M wrote: PS I still would appreciate to be directed to a short text explaining the essence of ASSA (RSSA?). J It is in my book. Here is the relevant excerpt: \section[ASSA vs RSSA]{Absolute vs Relative Self Sampl\-ing Assumption} In the

RE: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-26 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
Brent Meeker writes:I think Bruno already remarked that it may well be more probable that a continuation of your consciousness arises in some other branch of the multiverse by chance, rather than as a state of your erstwhile body. This would seem particularly more probable as your

RE: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-26 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 9:03 AM Subject: RE: ASSA and Many-Worlds John Mikes writes: Stathis: your concluding sentence is But my brain just won't let me think this way. * Have you been carried away? Who is your brain to make decisions upon you? (maybe you mean only

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-26 Thread Brent Meeker
Stathis Papaioannou wrote: Brent Meeker writes: I think Bruno already remarked that it may well be more probable that a continuation of your consciousness arises in some other branch of the multiverse by chance, rather than as a state of your erstwhile body. This would

RE: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-26 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
Moreover, even if we constrain the definition of computer to include only the operations of factory-made devices plugged in and appropriately programmed, the fact that a digital computation at any instant does not access all of memory and data allows for the computation to be distributed over

RE: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-26 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
Brent meeker writes:As I understand it, Bruno's theory is that you are all the consistent continuations of your consciousness. I'm not exactly sure what constitutes a consistent continuation, but it must be something other than just sharing memories. At any given time my

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-26 Thread Brent Meeker
Stathis Papaioannou wrote: Brent meeker writes: As I understand it, Bruno's theory is that you are all the consistent continuations of your consciousness. I'm not exactly sure what constitutes a consistent continuation, but it must be something other than just sharing

RE: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-25 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
Johnathan Corgan writes: Stathis Papaioannou wrote: If some multiverse theory happens to be true then by your way of argument we should all be extremely anxious all the time, because every moment terrible things are definitely happening to some copy of us. For example, we

RE: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-25 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
Jason Resch writes: Jason Resch writes: My appologies to those on this list, this is how I should have worded my conclusion: Positive spared lives = Take replication Neutral spared lives = Take coin flip Negative spared lives = Take coin flip [SP] This is an analysis from an

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-25 Thread Brent Meeker
Stathis Papaioannou wrote: Johnathan Corgan writes: Stathis Papaioannou wrote: If some multiverse theory happens to be true then by your way of argument we should all be extremely anxious all the time, because every moment terrible things are definitely happening to some copy of

RE: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-24 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
Jason Resch writes: Stathis Papaioannou wrote: Jason Resch writes: Let's say being spared is neutral while being tortured is obviously bad, even if you are tortured for only a few minutes. Also, assume the intensity of the torture and the quality of life on being spared is the

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-24 Thread Johnathan Corgan
Stathis Papaioannou wrote: If some multiverse theory happens to be true then by your way of argument we should all be extremely anxious all the time, because every moment terrible things are definitely happening to some copy of us. For example, we should be constantly be worrying that

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-23 Thread Jason
Stathis Papaioannou wrote: Jason Resch writes: Let's say being spared is neutral while being tortured is obviously bad, even if you are tortured for only a few minutes. Also, assume the intensity of the torture and the quality of life on being spared is the same in duplication/ coin

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds (correction)

2007-01-23 Thread Jason
Jason wrote: Here the replication is only the optimal choice for neutral life times. If a lifetime is very positive, the 999,999 good lives outweigh the one tortured. If the spared lifetimes were very negative, the 999,999 lifetimes would only add to the negative observer moments created

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds (correction)

2007-01-23 Thread Jason
Jason wrote: Jason wrote: Here the replication is only the optimal choice for neutral life times. If a lifetime is very positive, the 999,999 good lives outweigh the one tortured. If the spared lifetimes were very negative, the 999,999 lifetimes would only add to the negative observer

RE: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-22 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
Jason Resch writes: Stathis Papaioannou wrote: What about when multiple equally valid OM's exist? I don't agree that they are all perceived. If I am to be duplicated and one of the copies tortured, I am worried, because this is subjectively equivalent to expecting torture with 1/2

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-21 Thread Jason
Stathis Papaioannou wrote: What about when multiple equally valid OM's exist? I don't agree that they are all perceived. If I am to be duplicated and one of the copies tortured, I am worried, because this is subjectively equivalent to expecting torture with 1/2 probability.

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-20 Thread William
Quentin Anciaux wrote: Hi, Le Vendredi 19 Janvier 2007 12:20, William a écrit : I have been reading up on this subject a little bit and about the quantum immortality, I believe it is a common misconception that this means you will never die; if all future branches involve your death,

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-20 Thread Bruno Marchal
Le 19-janv.-07, à 17:44, Brent Meeker a écrit : William wrote: I have been reading up on this subject a little bit and about the quantum immortality, I believe it is a common misconception that this means you will never die; if all future branches involve your death, then you will die ...

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-20 Thread John M
- Original Message - From: Jason To: Everything List Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 12:58 AM Subject: Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds William wrote: A simple way of picturing this, would be that at the big bang; the universe is 1 piece of paper, and from then on, every second

RE: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-20 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
William Vandenberghe writes: I have been reading up on this subject a little bit and about the quantum immortality, I believe it is a common misconception that this means you will never die; if all future branches involve your death, then you will die ... Quantum immortality does not imply

RE: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-20 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
times, and perhaps we would evolve to think this way in a world where duplication was commonplace, but our brains aren't wired that way at present. Stathis Papaioanou From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: ASSA and Many

RE: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-20 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
Jason writes: William wrote: A simple way of picturing this, would be that at the big bang; the universe is 1 piece of paper, and from then on, every second, the piece(s) of paper is cut in half; giving 1, 2, 4, 8, ... universes. The total area of paper remains the same and all the

RE: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-20 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
Wiliam writes: Quentin Anciaux wrote: Hi, Le Vendredi 19 Janvier 2007 12:20, William a écrit : I have been reading up on this subject a little bit and about the quantum immortality, I believe it is a common misconception that this means you will never die; if all future branches

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-19 Thread William
I have been reading up on this subject a little bit and about the quantum immortality, I believe it is a common misconception that this means you will never die; if all future branches involve your death, then you will die ... Quantum immortality does not imply that you can dodge every bullet

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-19 Thread Quentin Anciaux
Hi, Le Vendredi 19 Janvier 2007 12:20, William a écrit : I have been reading up on this subject a little bit and about the quantum immortality, I believe it is a common misconception that this means you will never die; if all future branches involve your death, then you will die ... Quantum

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-19 Thread Brent Meeker
William wrote: I have been reading up on this subject a little bit and about the quantum immortality, I believe it is a common misconception that this means you will never die; if all future branches involve your death, then you will die ... Quantum immortality does not imply that you can

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-19 Thread Jason
Stathis Papaioannou wrote: That is, once you are a conscious entity, you will follow a constrained branching path through the multiverse giving the illusion of a single linear history. Measure is redefined at every branching point: the subjective probability of your next moment. Since

Re: ASSA and Many-Worlds

2007-01-19 Thread Jason
William wrote: A simple way of picturing this, would be that at the big bang; the universe is 1 piece of paper, and from then on, every second, the piece(s) of paper is cut in half; giving 1, 2, 4, 8, ... universes. The total area of paper remains the same and all the pieces get smaller all

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