Re: Hitch

2013-07-14 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 13 Jul 2013, at 21:06, meekerdb wrote: On 7/13/2013 1:51 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Irreversibility of first person experience can be recovered from reversible computation. That would be statistical irreversibility, i.e. reversal is improbable but not impossible. Why? Not necessarily.

Re: Hitch

2013-07-13 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 13 Jul 2013, at 01:28, meekerdb wrote: On 7/12/2013 3:20 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 12 Jul 2013, at 21:31, meekerdb wrote: On 7/12/2013 11:13 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Because if you agree with I dunno which city I will see, by deducing it through an explicit appeal to a level of

Re: Hitch

2013-07-13 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 12 Jul 2013, at 19:18, meekerdb wrote: On 7/12/2013 2:11 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 11 Jul 2013, at 22:14, meekerdb wrote: On 7/11/2013 12:34 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 11 Jul 2013, at 18:46, meekerdb wrote: On 7/10/2013 11:25 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: I have given the equation. I

Re: Hitch

2013-07-13 Thread meekerdb
On 7/13/2013 1:51 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Irreversibility of first person experience can be recovered from reversible computation. That would be statistical irreversibility, i.e. reversal is improbable but not impossible. Why? Not necessarily. It can be 100% irreversible from the

Re: Hitch

2013-07-12 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 7:21 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 7/11/2013 7:40 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 9:23 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 7/10/2013 2:43 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 09 Jul 2013, at 20:37, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Jul 8,

Re: Hitch

2013-07-12 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 11 Jul 2013, at 22:14, meekerdb wrote: On 7/11/2013 12:34 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 11 Jul 2013, at 18:46, meekerdb wrote: On 7/10/2013 11:25 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: I have given the equation. I try to explain this on FOAR but it relies on some familiarity in logic. Normally you

Re: Hitch

2013-07-12 Thread John Clark
On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Turing proved 80 years ago that in general you can't predict what an external purely deterministic system will do, In the long run, and without any indeterminacy in the functioning of its parts. Yes. We might not know if the

Re: Hitch

2013-07-12 Thread meekerdb
On 7/12/2013 2:11 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 11 Jul 2013, at 22:14, meekerdb wrote: On 7/11/2013 12:34 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 11 Jul 2013, at 18:46, meekerdb wrote: On 7/10/2013 11:25 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: I have given the equation. I try to explain this on FOAR but it relies on

Re: Hitch

2013-07-12 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 12 Jul 2013, at 17:34, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Turing proved 80 years ago that in general you can't predict what an external purely deterministic system will do, In the long run, and without any indeterminacy in the functioning

Re: Hitch

2013-07-12 Thread Johnathan Corgan
On 07/10/2013 11:18 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: I use atheists in the (Google) sense of B~g. ~Bg is agnosticism (in the mundane common sense). Some atheists seem to oscillate between the two definitions, opportunistically. The issue is that both of those require some specific 'g' to be

Re: Hitch

2013-07-12 Thread meekerdb
On 7/11/2013 12:22 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: The god of the materialist is Matter, and I don't believe in it. I am agnostic. I search. I think you do believe in matter - you often refer to your coffee, for example. You just don't believe it is fundamental. But that's a very different thing.

Re: Hitch

2013-07-12 Thread meekerdb
On 7/12/2013 11:13 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Because if you agree with I dunno which city I will see, by deducing it through an explicit appeal to a level of mechanical substitution, you see that the digital third person determinacy is responsible for indeterminate, from the first person points

Re: Hitch

2013-07-12 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 12 Jul 2013, at 20:33, Johnathan Corgan wrote: On 07/10/2013 11:18 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: I use atheists in the (Google) sense of B~g. ~Bg is agnosticism (in the mundane common sense). Some atheists seem to oscillate between the two definitions, opportunistically. The issue is that

Re: Hitch

2013-07-12 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 12 Jul 2013, at 21:25, meekerdb wrote: On 7/11/2013 12:22 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: The god of the materialist is Matter, and I don't believe in it. I am agnostic. I search. I think you do believe in matter - you often refer to your coffee, for example. You just don't believe it is

Re: Hitch

2013-07-12 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 12 Jul 2013, at 21:31, meekerdb wrote: On 7/12/2013 11:13 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Because if you agree with I dunno which city I will see, by deducing it through an explicit appeal to a level of mechanical substitution, you see that the digital third person determinacy is responsible

Re: Hitch

2013-07-12 Thread meekerdb
On 7/12/2013 3:20 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 12 Jul 2013, at 21:31, meekerdb wrote: On 7/12/2013 11:13 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Because if you agree with I dunno which city I will see, by deducing it through an explicit appeal to a level of mechanical substitution, you see that the digital

Re: Hitch

2013-07-11 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 10 Jul 2013, at 21:59, meekerdb wrote: On 7/10/2013 8:50 AM, Jason Resch wrote: Now the converse, where atheism is taken to mean rejection of all gods, rather than one, is not meaningless. You keep using the term rejection. If by rejection you mean failure to credence that's OK. But

Re: Hitch

2013-07-11 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 10 Jul 2013, at 22:37, meekerdb wrote: On 7/10/2013 1:25 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: UDA shows why and we have to extract physics from that (making comp testable), and how we can do that using the mathematical machine's theology. You're really saying we have to extract physics from

Re: Hitch

2013-07-11 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 9:23 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 7/10/2013 2:43 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 09 Jul 2013, at 20:37, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: atheism is different in America and in Europa, although I have realized

Re: Hitch

2013-07-11 Thread John Clark
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 5:08 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: If I could predict God's future actions by solving partial differential equations I have no idea what you mean by God in that sentence. It seems odd that now you're the one complaining that the word God is too

Re: Hitch

2013-07-11 Thread John Clark
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 Johnathan Corgan jcor...@aeinet.com wrote: This thread has devolved somewhat into arguing definitions, Yes, word games and arguing over what arbitrary meaning a sequence of ASCII characters should have is what passes for philosophy these days. Meanwhile REAL philosophers

Re: Hitch

2013-07-11 Thread meekerdb
On 7/10/2013 2:08 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Why does atheist put so much energy in defending all the time the roman christian God. Because they know what they don't believe, yet other people want them to believe in *something* called God and those people keep adjusting and expanding and

Re: Hitch

2013-07-11 Thread meekerdb
On 7/10/2013 11:25 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: I have given the equation. I try to explain this on FOAR but it relies on some familiarity in logic. Normally you should know already that physics is given by a measure on relative computational continuations, and the logic explains already the

Re: Hitch

2013-07-11 Thread meekerdb
On 7/10/2013 11:49 PM, Jason Resch wrote: The same logical that says bad things happen because all things happen also promises all good things happen as well. As life gains greater control over its environment, the proportion of good things to bad things will only increase. I suppose it

Re: Hitch

2013-07-11 Thread meekerdb
On 7/11/2013 7:40 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 9:23 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 7/10/2013 2:43 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 09 Jul 2013, at 20:37, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: atheism is different in America

Re: Hitch

2013-07-11 Thread Jason Resch
On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 11:55 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 7/10/2013 11:49 PM, Jason Resch wrote: The same logical that says bad things happen because all things happen also promises all good things happen as well. As life gains greater control over its environment, the

Re: Hitch

2013-07-11 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 11 Jul 2013, at 17:28, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 5:08 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: If I could predict God's future actions by solving partial differential equations I have no idea what you mean by God in that sentence. It seems odd that now you're the

Re: Hitch

2013-07-11 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 11 Jul 2013, at 17:50, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 Johnathan Corgan jcor...@aeinet.com wrote: This thread has devolved somewhat into arguing definitions, Yes, word games and arguing over what arbitrary meaning a sequence of ASCII characters should have is what passes for

Re: Hitch

2013-07-11 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 11 Jul 2013, at 17:52, meekerdb wrote: On 7/10/2013 2:08 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Why does atheist put so much energy in defending all the time the roman christian God. Because they know what they don't believe, yet other people want them to believe in *something* called God and

Re: Hitch

2013-07-11 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 11 Jul 2013, at 18:46, meekerdb wrote: On 7/10/2013 11:25 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: I have given the equation. I try to explain this on FOAR but it relies on some familiarity in logic. Normally you should know already that physics is given by a measure on relative computational

Re: Hitch

2013-07-11 Thread John Clark
On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 3:08 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: You know what partial differential equations are don't you? Well then, in the above God is anything in which a solution to such a equation describes the future behavior of that thing. God would be more like the one

Re: Hitch

2013-07-11 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 11 Jul 2013, at 19:21, meekerdb wrote: On 7/11/2013 7:40 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 9:23 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 7/10/2013 2:43 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 09 Jul 2013, at 20:37, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 Bruno Marchal

Re: Hitch

2013-07-11 Thread John Clark
On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 3:16 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Yes, word games and arguing over what arbitrary meaning a sequence of ASCII characters should have is what passes for philosophy these days. Meanwhile REAL philosophers have discovered that there is more than one type of

Re: Hitch

2013-07-11 Thread meekerdb
On 7/11/2013 12:34 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 11 Jul 2013, at 18:46, meekerdb wrote: On 7/10/2013 11:25 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: I have given the equation. I try to explain this on FOAR but it relies on some familiarity in logic. Normally you should know already that physics is given by a

Re: Hitch

2013-07-11 Thread meekerdb
On 7/11/2013 1:03 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: There is no problem with faith. There is problems only with *bad faith*, whose symptoms are the insults and the arguments by violence or per authority. Are you not aware of the couple who has had two children die of easily treated infections

Re: Hitch

2013-07-11 Thread meekerdb
On 7/11/2013 1:07 PM, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 3:16 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be mailto:marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Yes, word games and arguing over what arbitrary meaning a sequence of ASCII characters should have is what passes for philosophy these

Re: Hitch

2013-07-11 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 11 Jul 2013, at 22:07, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 3:16 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Yes, word games and arguing over what arbitrary meaning a sequence of ASCII characters should have is what passes for philosophy these days. Meanwhile REAL philosophers

Re: Hitch

2013-07-11 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 11 Jul 2013, at 21:42, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 3:08 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: You know what partial differential equations are don't you? Well then, in the above God is anything in which a solution to such a equation describes the future behavior

Re: Hitch

2013-07-10 Thread Jason Resch
...@gmail.com To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Hitch Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 19:33:43 -0500 On Jul 9, 2013, at 5:56 PM, chris peck chris_peck...@hotmail.com wrote: If some one says look, cat I don't know what kind of cat they are refering to. I nevertheless can be confident

Re: Hitch

2013-07-10 Thread meekerdb
On 7/9/2013 11:06 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 11:53 PM, chris peck chris_peck...@hotmail.com mailto:chris_peck...@hotmail.com wrote: there are many words like that which we use without any fuss. The word 'game' is a famous example where different games possess a

Re: Hitch

2013-07-10 Thread Jason Resch
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 1:58 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 7/9/2013 11:06 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 11:53 PM, chris peck chris_peck...@hotmail.comwrote: there are many words like that which we use without any fuss. The word 'game' is a famous example

Re: Hitch

2013-07-10 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 09 Jul 2013, at 20:06, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 12:59 AM, Kim Jones kimjo...@ozemail.com.au wrote: I love Christopher Hitchens. I agree with many points. He is more an anticlerical than an atheist to me ... Everybody called him an atheist. He called himself an

Re: Hitch

2013-07-10 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 09 Jul 2013, at 20:37, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: atheism is different in America and in Europa, although I have realized now that some atheists in America might be similar, but not Hitchens. Many people confuse agnosticism and

Re: Hitch

2013-07-10 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 09 Jul 2013, at 20:57, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: Many people, and dictionaries, confuse agnosticism=that whether or not God exists is unknown with agnosticism=that whether or not God exists is impossible to know. If God created the

Re: Hitch

2013-07-10 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 09 Jul 2013, at 22:58, John Mikes wrote: (See below): I do not fall for Brent's quip that you want to impose your extended (non-religious?) religion on us, so I continue. Whatever you call 'religious' is continuation of millenia-long habits, hard to break. The Hindus have different

RE: Hitch

2013-07-10 Thread chris peck
in science. I get anxious when I hear people define what scientists should be like. Whatever gets the job done, I say. But thats another argument. From: marc...@ulb.ac.be To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Hitch Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2013 11:59:16 +0200 On 09 Jul 2013, at 22:58, John

Re: Hitch

2013-07-10 Thread Jason Resch
Subject: Re: Hitch Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2013 11:59:16 +0200 On 09 Jul 2013, at 22:58, John Mikes wrote: (See below): I do not fall for Brent's quip that you want to impose your extended (non-religious?) religion on us, so I continue. Whatever you call 'religious' is continuation of millenia

Re: Hitch

2013-07-10 Thread Richard Ruquist
: incuriosity, arrogance, obfuscation. Jason Whatever gets the job done, I say. But thats another argument. -- From: marc...@ulb.ac.bemarc...@ulb.ac.be To: everything-list@googlegroups.comeverything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Hitch Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2013 11:59

Re: Hitch

2013-07-10 Thread John Clark
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 5:35 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: God is the fundamental reality in which you believe in. Since you are not a native speaker I must say it's a bit presumptions of you to insist that the English Language reinvent itself, you're a HUGE fan of acronyms so why

Re: Hitch

2013-07-10 Thread Johnathan Corgan
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 8:50 AM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: My point is that if one takes atheism to be the rejection of all conceptions of god, then because those ideas are conceptions of god from various religions, then someone who remains atheist after exposure to those ideas

Re: Hitch

2013-07-10 Thread meekerdb
On 7/10/2013 1:59 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 1:58 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 7/9/2013 11:06 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 11:53 PM, chris peck chris_peck...@hotmail.com

Re: Hitch

2013-07-10 Thread meekerdb
On 7/10/2013 2:35 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 09 Jul 2013, at 20:06, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 12:59 AM, Kim Jones kimjo...@ozemail.com.au mailto:kimjo...@ozemail.com.au wrote: I love Christopher Hitchens. I agree with many points. He is more an

Re: Hitch

2013-07-10 Thread meekerdb
On 7/10/2013 2:43 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 09 Jul 2013, at 20:37, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be mailto:marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: atheism is different in America and in Europa, although I have realized now that some atheists in America

Re: Hitch

2013-07-10 Thread meekerdb
On 7/10/2013 2:48 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 09 Jul 2013, at 20:57, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: Many people, and dictionaries, confuse agnosticism=that whether or not God exists is unknown with

Re: Hitch

2013-07-10 Thread John Clark
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: they [atheists] believ in Matter, the thrid God of Aristotle. But they want you to believe it is not a God, If I could predict God's future actions by solving partial differential equations, and if I could build a bridge overpass by

Re: Hitch

2013-07-10 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 10 Jul 2013, at 20:00, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 5:35 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: God is the fundamental reality in which you believe in. Since you are not a native speaker I must say it's a bit presumptions of you to insist that the English Language

Re: Hitch

2013-07-10 Thread meekerdb
On 7/10/2013 8:50 AM, Jason Resch wrote: Now the converse, where atheism is taken to mean rejection of all gods, rather than one, is not meaningless. You keep using the term rejection. If by rejection you mean failure to credence that's OK. But you seem to imply assertion of non-existence.

Re: Hitch

2013-07-10 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 10 Jul 2013, at 20:51, Johnathan Corgan wrote: In the realm of theistic beliefs, we were all born lacking any; we were all born atheists. No, we are born agnostic. We lack the belief in God, but we lack also the belief in the non-existence of God. Then I am not even sure that babies

Re: Hitch

2013-07-10 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 10 Jul 2013, at 21:12, meekerdb wrote: On 7/10/2013 2:35 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 09 Jul 2013, at 20:06, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 12:59 AM, Kim Jones kimjo...@ozemail.com.au wrote: I love Christopher Hitchens. I agree with many points. He is more an anticlerical

Re: Hitch

2013-07-10 Thread meekerdb
On 7/10/2013 1:25 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: UDA shows why and we have to extract physics from that (making comp testable), and how we can do that using the mathematical machine's theology. You're really saying we have to extract physics from comp IN ORDER that it be testable. You've said

Re: Hitch

2013-07-10 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 10 Jul 2013, at 21:23, meekerdb wrote: On 7/10/2013 2:43 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 09 Jul 2013, at 20:37, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: atheism is different in America and in Europa, although I have realized now that some atheists in

Re: Hitch

2013-07-10 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 10 Jul 2013, at 21:26, meekerdb wrote: On 7/10/2013 2:48 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 09 Jul 2013, at 20:57, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: Many people, and dictionaries, confuse agnosticism=that whether or not God exists is unknown with

Re: Hitch

2013-07-10 Thread meekerdb
On 7/10/2013 1:34 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 10 Jul 2013, at 21:12, meekerdb wrote: On 7/10/2013 2:35 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 09 Jul 2013, at 20:06, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 12:59 AM, Kim Jones kimjo...@ozemail.com.au mailto:kimjo...@ozemail.com.au wrote:

Re: Hitch

2013-07-10 Thread Jason Resch
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 1:51 PM, Johnathan Corgan jcor...@aeinet.comwrote: On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 8:50 AM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: My point is that if one takes atheism to be the rejection of all conceptions of god, then because those ideas are conceptions of god from

Re: Hitch

2013-07-10 Thread Jason Resch
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 2:08 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 7/10/2013 1:59 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 1:58 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 7/9/2013 11:06 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 11:53 PM, chris peck

Re: Hitch

2013-07-10 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 10 Jul 2013, at 21:53, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: they [atheists] believ in Matter, the thrid God of Aristotle. But they want you to believe it is not a God, If I could predict God's future actions by solving partial differential

Re: Hitch

2013-07-09 Thread Bruno Marchal
John, On 08 Jul 2013, at 23:03, John Mikes wrote: After some million years of 'mental' development this animal arrived at the 'mental' fear. Usurpers exploited it by creating superpowers to target it with assigned intent to help, or destroy. The details were subject to the 'founders'

Re: Hitch

2013-07-09 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 08 Jul 2013, at 23:18, meekerdb wrote: On 7/8/2013 12:26 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 12:53 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 7/8/2013 1:11 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 08 Jul 2013, at 02:45, meekerdb wrote: On 7/7/2013 6:56 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 07

Re: Hitch

2013-07-09 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 08 Jul 2013, at 23:22, meekerdb wrote: On 7/8/2013 1:03 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: We are all believers, and when a machine pretend to be a non believer, it means I know, and she will impose her religion to you, by all means. ?? So when you say comp is just an hypothesis, to be tested

Re: Hitch

2013-07-09 Thread meekerdb
On 7/9/2013 2:25 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: In my view an 'atheist requires a god to disbelieve (deny?). Indeed. Many atheists seems to take more seriously the Christian Gods than most christians theologians, who can seriously debate on the Aristotle/Plato difference. Of course. If the

Re: Hitch

2013-07-09 Thread John Clark
On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 12:59 AM, Kim Jones kimjo...@ozemail.com.au wrote: I love Christopher Hitchens. I agree with many points. He is more an anticlerical than an atheist to me ... Everybody called him an atheist. He called himself an atheist. I think you just don't like the term.

Re: Hitch

2013-07-09 Thread John Clark
On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: atheism is different in America and in Europa, although I have realized now that some atheists in America might be similar, but not Hitchens. Many people confuse agnosticism and atheism. 1) A atheist is someone who dismisses the idea

Re: Hitch

2013-07-09 Thread John Clark
On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: Many people, and dictionaries, confuse agnosticism=that whether or not God exists is unknown with agnosticism=that whether or not God exists is impossible to know. If God created the universe that would be a fact about physics that

Re: Hitch

2013-07-09 Thread John Mikes
(See below): I do not fall for Brent's quip that you want to impose your extended (non-religious?) religion on us, so I continue. Whatever you call 'religious' is continuation of millenia-long habits, hard to break. The Hindus have different ones - yet it IS religion. Atheists? Atheism? comes

Re: Hitch

2013-07-09 Thread meekerdb
On 7/9/2013 11:57 AM, John Clark wrote: I agree with Sam Harris that atheist is not a very useful appellation because it only describes someone in contrast to theist. That makes no sense. The word nonfiction is useful but it only describes something in contrast to fiction. I

Re: Hitch

2013-07-09 Thread chris peck
Why does that make the word less usefull? I think its a very useful word. If someone tells me they are an atheist I then know that they do not belive in God. --- Original Message --- From: meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net Sent: 10 July 2013 7:56 AM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re

Re: Hitch

2013-07-09 Thread Jason Resch
On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 5:33 PM, chris peck chris_peck...@hotmail.comwrote: Why does that make the word less usefull? I think its a very useful word. If someone tells me they are an atheist I then know that they do not belive in God. But you don't know what God the atheist doesn't believe

Re: Hitch

2013-07-09 Thread chris peck
Subject: Re: Hitch On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 5:33 PM, chris peck chris_peck...@hotmail.comwrote: Why does that make the word less usefull? I think its a very useful word. If someone tells me they are an atheist I then know that they do not belive in God. But you don't know what God the atheist

Re: Hitch

2013-07-09 Thread meekerdb
then know that they do not belive in God. --- Original Message --- From: meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net Sent: 10 July 2013 7:56 AM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Hitch On 7/9/2013 11:57 AM, John Clark wrote: I agree with Sam Harris that atheist is not a very useful

Re: Hitch

2013-07-09 Thread Jason Resch
in. Jason --- Original Message --- From: Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com Sent: 10 July 2013 8:35 AM To: Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Hitch On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 5:33 PM, chris peck chris_peck...@hotmail.com wrote: Why does that make the word less usefull? I

RE: Hitch

2013-07-09 Thread chris peck
-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Hitch Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 19:33:43 -0500 On Jul 9, 2013, at 5:56 PM, chris peck chris_peck...@hotmail.com wrote: If some one says look, cat I don't know what kind of cat they are refering to. I nevertheless can be confident that they have seen something

Re: Hitch

2013-07-08 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 08 Jul 2013, at 02:45, meekerdb wrote: On 7/7/2013 6:56 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 07 Jul 2013, at 07:28, meekerdb wrote: http://www.salon.com/2013/07/06/god_is_not_great_christopher_hitchens_is_not_a_liar/ I love Christopher Hitchens. I agree with many points. He is more an

Re: Hitch

2013-07-08 Thread meekerdb
On 7/8/2013 1:11 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 08 Jul 2013, at 02:45, meekerdb wrote: On 7/7/2013 6:56 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 07 Jul 2013, at 07:28, meekerdb wrote: http://www.salon.com/2013/07/06/god_is_not_great_christopher_hitchens_is_not_a_liar/ I love Christopher Hitchens. I

Re: Hitch

2013-07-08 Thread Jason Resch
On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 12:53 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 7/8/2013 1:11 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 08 Jul 2013, at 02:45, meekerdb wrote: On 7/7/2013 6:56 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 07 Jul 2013, at 07:28, meekerdb wrote:

Re: Hitch

2013-07-08 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 08 Jul 2013, at 19:53, meekerdb wrote: On 7/8/2013 1:11 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 08 Jul 2013, at 02:45, meekerdb wrote: On 7/7/2013 6:56 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 07 Jul 2013, at 07:28, meekerdb wrote:

Re: Hitch

2013-07-08 Thread John Mikes
After some million years of 'mental' development this animal arrived at the 'mental' fear. Usurpers exploited it by creating superpowers to target it with assigned intent to help, or destroy. The details were subject to the 'founders' benefit of enslaving the rest of the people into their rule.

Re: Hitch

2013-07-08 Thread meekerdb
On 7/8/2013 12:26 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 12:53 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 7/8/2013 1:11 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 08 Jul 2013, at 02:45, meekerdb wrote: On 7/7/2013 6:56 AM, Bruno Marchal

Re: Hitch

2013-07-08 Thread meekerdb
On 7/8/2013 1:03 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: We are all believers, and when a machine pretend to be a non believer, it means I know, and she will impose her religion to you, by all means. ?? So when you say comp is just an hypothesis, to be tested like any other scientific theory, you're really

Re: Hitch

2013-07-07 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 07 Jul 2013, at 07:28, meekerdb wrote: http://www.salon.com/2013/07/06/god_is_not_great_christopher_hitchens_is_not_a_liar/ I love Christopher Hitchens. I agree with many points. He is more an anticlerical than an atheist to me ... Bruno Brent -- You received this message

Re: Hitch

2013-07-07 Thread meekerdb
On 7/7/2013 6:56 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 07 Jul 2013, at 07:28, meekerdb wrote: http://www.salon.com/2013/07/06/god_is_not_great_christopher_hitchens_is_not_a_liar/ I love Christopher Hitchens. I agree with many points. He is more an anticlerical than an atheist to me ...

Re: Hitch

2013-07-07 Thread Kim Jones
On 08/07/2013, at 10:45 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 7/7/2013 6:56 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 07 Jul 2013, at 07:28, meekerdb wrote: http://www.salon.com/2013/07/06/god_is_not_great_christopher_hitchens_is_not_a_liar/ I love Christopher Hitchens. I agree with