Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 11 Dec 2013, at 18:58, John Clark wrote: On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 4:08 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Determinism is far from "well established". >>> It's a basic assumption in almost every scientific theory. >> In the most important theory in physics, Quantum Mechanics, no such assumpti

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 11 Dec 2013, at 21:17, meekerdb wrote: On 12/11/2013 1:13 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 10 Dec 2013, at 20:08, meekerdb wrote: On 12/10/2013 12:49 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 09 Dec 2013, at 23:28, meekerdb wrote: On 12/9/2013 12:06 PM, Jason Resch wrote: Bell's theorm proves that

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 2:39 PM, meekerdb wrote: > On 12/11/2013 2:07 AM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > > On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 1:32 AM, meekerdb wrote: > >> On 12/10/2013 10:47 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 12:19 AM, meekerdb wrote: >> >>> On 12/10/2013 9:49 P

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 11 December 2013 22:26, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 11 Dec 2013, at 02:23, LizR wrote: > > On 10 December 2013 09:06, Jason Resch wrote: > >> >> Bell's theorm proves that local hidden variables are impossible which >> leaves only two remaining explanations that explain the EPR paradox: >> >>

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 12/11/2013 1:26 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 11 Dec 2013, at 02:23, LizR wrote: On 10 December 2013 09:06, Jason Resch > wrote: Bell's theorm proves that local hidden variables are impossible which leaves only two remaining explanations that explain th

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 12/11/2013 2:07 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 1:32 AM, meekerdb > wrote: On 12/10/2013 10:47 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 12:19 AM, meekerdb mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: On 12/10/2013 9:49 PM, Jas

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 12/11/2013 1:13 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 10 Dec 2013, at 20:08, meekerdb wrote: On 12/10/2013 12:49 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 09 Dec 2013, at 23:28, meekerdb wrote: On 12/9/2013 12:06 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 12:57 PM, meekerdb

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 11:58 AM, John Clark wrote: > On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 4:08 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> Determinism is far from "well established". >>> >>> >>> It's a basic assumption in almost every scientific theory. >>> >> >> >> In the most important theory in physics, Q

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 4:08 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > Determinism is far from "well established". >>> >> >> >>> It's a basic assumption in almost every scientific theory. >> > > >> In the most important theory in physics, Quantum Mechanics, no such > assumption is made, and despite a ce

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 1:32 AM, meekerdb wrote: > On 12/10/2013 10:47 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > > On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 12:19 AM, meekerdb wrote: > >> On 12/10/2013 9:49 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 9:53 PM, meekerdb wrote: >> >>> On 12/10/2013 5:23 P

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 11 Dec 2013, at 02:23, LizR wrote: On 10 December 2013 09:06, Jason Resch wrote: Bell's theorm proves that local hidden variables are impossible which leaves only two remaining explanations that explain the EPR paradox: 1. Non-local, faster-than-light, relativity violating effects 2.

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 10 Dec 2013, at 20:08, meekerdb wrote: On 12/10/2013 12:49 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 09 Dec 2013, at 23:28, meekerdb wrote: On 12/9/2013 12:06 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 12:57 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 12/9/2013 12:44 AM, LizR wrote: On 9 December 2013 20:56, m

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 12/10/2013 10:47 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 12:19 AM, meekerdb > wrote: On 12/10/2013 9:49 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 9:53 PM, meekerdb mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: On 12/10/2013 5:23 PM, Liz

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 12:19 AM, meekerdb wrote: > On 12/10/2013 9:49 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > > On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 9:53 PM, meekerdb wrote: > >> On 12/10/2013 5:23 PM, LizR wrote: >> >> On 10 December 2013 09:06, Jason Resch wrote: >> >>> >>> Bell's theorm proves that local hid

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 12/10/2013 9:49 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 9:53 PM, meekerdb > wrote: On 12/10/2013 5:23 PM, LizR wrote: On 10 December 2013 09:06, Jason Resch mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>> wrote: Bell's theorm proves that local hidden v

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 9:53 PM, meekerdb wrote: > On 12/10/2013 5:23 PM, LizR wrote: > > On 10 December 2013 09:06, Jason Resch wrote: > >> >> Bell's theorm proves that local hidden variables are impossible which >> leaves only two remaining explanations that explain the EPR paradox: >> >>

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 12/10/2013 5:23 PM, LizR wrote: On 10 December 2013 09:06, Jason Resch > wrote: Bell's theorm proves that local hidden variables are impossible which leaves only two remaining explanations that explain the EPR paradox: 1. Non-local, faster-than-ligh

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 10 December 2013 09:06, Jason Resch wrote: > > Bell's theorm proves that local hidden variables are impossible which > leaves only two remaining explanations that explain the EPR paradox: > > 1. Non-local, faster-than-light, relativity violating effects > 2. Measurements have more than one out

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 4:00 PM, meekerdb wrote: > On 12/10/2013 1:22 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > I think I was attempting to position myself between John and >>> Jason - to say that determinism is reasonably well established, but only as >>> a result of a long and winding process of

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 12/10/2013 1:22 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: I think I was attempting to position myself between John and Jason - to say that determinism is reasonably well established, but only as a result of a long and winding process of experiment, conjecture and so on.

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013/12/10 meekerdb > On 12/10/2013 12:49 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 09 Dec 2013, at 23:28, meekerdb wrote: > > On 12/9/2013 12:06 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > > On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 12:57 PM, meekerdb wrote: > >> On 12/9/2013 12:44 AM, LizR wrote: >> >> On 9 December 2013 20:56,

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 1:08 PM, meekerdb wrote: > On 12/10/2013 12:49 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 09 Dec 2013, at 23:28, meekerdb wrote: > > On 12/9/2013 12:06 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > > On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 12:57 PM, meekerdb wrote: > >> On 12/9/2013 12:44 AM, LizR wrote: >>

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 12/10/2013 12:49 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 09 Dec 2013, at 23:28, meekerdb wrote: On 12/9/2013 12:06 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 12:57 PM, meekerdb > wrote: On 12/9/2013 12:44 AM, LizR wrote: On 9 December 2013 20:56, meekerdb

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 09 Dec 2013, at 23:28, meekerdb wrote: On 12/9/2013 12:06 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 12:57 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 12/9/2013 12:44 AM, LizR wrote: On 9 December 2013 20:56, meekerdb wrote: On 12/8/2013 4:36 PM, LizR wrote: On 9 December 2013 07:41, John Clark wr

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 10:33 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 12/9/2013 5:31 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > > On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 4:28 PM, meekerdb wrote: > >> On 12/9/2013 12:06 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 12:57 PM, meekerdb wrote: >> >>> On 12/9/2013 12:44 AM, Li

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 12/9/2013 5:31 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 4:28 PM, meekerdb > wrote: On 12/9/2013 12:06 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 12:57 PM, meekerdb mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: On 12/9/2013 12:44 AM, LizR wr

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 4:28 PM, meekerdb wrote: > On 12/9/2013 12:06 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > > On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 12:57 PM, meekerdb wrote: > >> On 12/9/2013 12:44 AM, LizR wrote: >> >> On 9 December 2013 20:56, meekerdb wrote: >> >>> On 12/8/2013 4:36 PM, LizR wrote: >>> >>> O

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 12/9/2013 12:06 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 12:57 PM, meekerdb > wrote: On 12/9/2013 12:44 AM, LizR wrote: On 9 December 2013 20:56, meekerdb mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: On 12/8/2013 4:36 PM, LizR wrote: On

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 12:57 PM, meekerdb wrote: > On 12/9/2013 12:44 AM, LizR wrote: > > On 9 December 2013 20:56, meekerdb wrote: > >> On 12/8/2013 4:36 PM, LizR wrote: >> >> On 9 December 2013 07:41, John Clark wrote: >> >>> On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 11:48 AM, Jason Resch wrote: >>>

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 12/9/2013 2:36 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 09 Dec 2013, at 09:44, LizR wrote: On 9 December 2013 20:56, meekerdb mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: On 12/8/2013 4:36 PM, LizR wrote: On 9 December 2013 07:41, John Clark mailto:johnkcl...@gmail.com>> wrote: On Sun, Dec 8

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 12/9/2013 12:44 AM, LizR wrote: On 9 December 2013 20:56, meekerdb mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: On 12/8/2013 4:36 PM, LizR wrote: On 9 December 2013 07:41, John Clark mailto:johnkcl...@gmail.com>> wrote: On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 11:48 AM, Jason Resch mailto:jasonre...

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 09 Dec 2013, at 09:44, LizR wrote: On 9 December 2013 20:56, meekerdb wrote: On 12/8/2013 4:36 PM, LizR wrote: On 9 December 2013 07:41, John Clark wrote: On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 11:48 AM, Jason Resch wrote: >> Determinism is far from "well established". > It's a basic assumption in a

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 9 December 2013 20:56, meekerdb wrote: > On 12/8/2013 4:36 PM, LizR wrote: > > On 9 December 2013 07:41, John Clark wrote: > >> On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 11:48 AM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >>> >> Determinism is far from "well established". >>> >>> > It's a basic assumption in almo

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 12/8/2013 4:36 PM, LizR wrote: On 9 December 2013 07:41, John Clark > wrote: On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 11:48 AM, Jason Resch mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> Determinism is far from "well established". > It's a basic assumption in al

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 9 December 2013 07:41, John Clark wrote: > On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 11:48 AM, Jason Resch wrote: > >>>> Determinism is far from "well established". >>> >> >> > It's a basic assumption in almost every scientific theory. >> > > In the most important theory in physics, Quantum Mechanics, no su

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 08 Dec 2013, at 19:41, John Clark wrote: On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 11:48 AM, Jason Resch wrote: >> Determinism is far from "well established". > It's a basic assumption in almost every scientific theory. In the most important theory in physics, Quantum Mechanics, no such assumption is ma

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 11:48 AM, Jason Resch wrote: >>> Determinism is far from "well established". >> > > > It's a basic assumption in almost every scientific theory. > In the most important theory in physics, Quantum Mechanics, no such assumption is made, and despite a century of trying no

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 1:58 AM, meekerdb wrote: > On 12/7/2013 9:34 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > > On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 1:08 PM, meekerdb wrote: > >> On 12/7/2013 1:06 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> Describe an experience which gives sense to multiverses. >> >> >> The Young two slits.

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 4:46 AM, LizR wrote: > Surely Everett's interpretation makes quantum mechanics deterministic. > Yes but if the world really isn't deterministic then turning quantum mechanics into something that was deterministic would be a point against Everett; and he provides no evidenc

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 08 Dec 2013, at 10:46, LizR wrote: On 8 December 2013 20:58, meekerdb wrote: On 12/7/2013 9:34 PM, Jason Resch wrote: Everett's idea explains the appearance of collapse without supposing it, so it is more rightfully called a theory. It is also the only theory under which QM is compatib

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 07 Dec 2013, at 20:08, meekerdb wrote: On 12/7/2013 1:06 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Describe an experience which gives sense to multiverses. The Young two slits. Only in some interpretations. In all interpretations of QM. You have to change drastically the QM theory to avoid the MW-

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 8 December 2013 20:58, meekerdb wrote: > On 12/7/2013 9:34 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > Everett's idea explains the appearance of collapse without supposing it, > so it is more rightfully called a theory. It is also the only theory under > which QM is compatible with the well-established princ

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 12/7/2013 9:34 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 1:08 PM, meekerdb > wrote: On 12/7/2013 1:06 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Describe an experience which gives sense to multiverses. The Young two slits. Only in some interpretations.

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 1:08 PM, meekerdb wrote: > On 12/7/2013 1:06 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > Describe an experience which gives sense to multiverses. > > > The Young two slits. > > > Only in some interpretations. > Everett's idea explains the appearance of collapse without supposing it,

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 07 Dec 2013, at 18:17, Jason Resch wrote: On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 3:13 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 06 Dec 2013, at 20:35, Jason Resch wrote: On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 4:10 AM, LizR wrote: On 6 December 2013 21:52, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 05 Dec 2013, at 20:05, Jason Resch wrote:

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 12/7/2013 1:06 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Describe an experience which gives sense to multiverses. The Young two slits. Only in some interpretations. Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 3:13 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 06 Dec 2013, at 20:35, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > > On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 4:10 AM, LizR wrote: > >> On 6 December 2013 21:52, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> >>> On 05 Dec 2013, at 20:05, Jason Resch wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Dec

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 06 Dec 2013, at 20:35, Jason Resch wrote: On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 4:10 AM, LizR wrote: On 6 December 2013 21:52, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 05 Dec 2013, at 20:05, Jason Resch wrote: On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 05 Dec 2013, at 17:20, Jason Resch wrote:

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 06 Dec 2013, at 20:33, Jason Resch wrote: On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 2:45 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 05 Dec 2013, at 19:57, meekerdb wrote: On 12/5/2013 2:15 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: In measure theory ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measure_(mathematics) ) just because there are an i

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 06 Dec 2013, at 20:27, meekerdb wrote: On 12/6/2013 12:45 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 05 Dec 2013, at 19:57, meekerdb wrote: On 12/5/2013 2:15 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: In measure theory ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measure_(mathematics) ) just because there are an infinite number doe

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 4:10 AM, LizR wrote: > On 6 December 2013 21:52, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> >> On 05 Dec 2013, at 20:05, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> >>> On 05 Dec 2013, at 17:20, Jason Resch wrote: >>> >>> So if you were t

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 2:45 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 05 Dec 2013, at 19:57, meekerdb wrote: > > On 12/5/2013 2:15 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > In measure theory ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measure_(mathematics) ) > just because there are an infinite number does not mean they are equa

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 12/6/2013 12:45 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 05 Dec 2013, at 19:57, meekerdb wrote: On 12/5/2013 2:15 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: In measure theory ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measure_(mathematics) ) just because there are an infinit

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 06 Dec 2013, at 11:10, LizR wrote: On 6 December 2013 21:52, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 05 Dec 2013, at 20:05, Jason Resch wrote: On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 05 Dec 2013, at 17:20, Jason Resch wrote: So if you were to spend a day in the box with Schrodi

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 06 Dec 2013, at 11:07, LizR wrote: On 6 December 2013 21:45, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 05 Dec 2013, at 19:57, meekerdb wrote: On 12/5/2013 2:15 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: In measure theory ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measure_(mathematics) ) just because there are an infinite number does

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

> > On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> The way I have for a time looked at is, is there are X instances that >> explain your current experience. Some may be "ordinary" while others might >> be, say a "dream". If in your experience, you encounter something you are >> unlike

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 6 December 2013 21:52, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 05 Dec 2013, at 20:05, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > > On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> >> On 05 Dec 2013, at 17:20, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> So if you were to spend a day in the box with Schrodinger's cat (each >> hour

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 6 December 2013 21:45, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 05 Dec 2013, at 19:57, meekerdb wrote: > > On 12/5/2013 2:15 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > In measure theory ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measure_(mathematics) ) > just because there are an infinite number does not mean they are equal. > Y

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 05 Dec 2013, at 20:05, Jason Resch wrote: On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 05 Dec 2013, at 17:20, Jason Resch wrote: So if you were to spend a day in the box with Schrodinger's cat (each hour having a 50% chance of poisoning you), what would you predict e

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 05 Dec 2013, at 19:57, meekerdb wrote: On 12/5/2013 2:15 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: In measure theory ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measure_(mathematics) ) just because there are an infinite number does not mean they are equal. Your measure each time you pull the trigger in the quantum

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 05 Dec 2013, at 19:52, Jason Resch wrote: On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 12:40 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 12/5/2013 12:53 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 1:48 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2013/12/5 Jason Resch On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 12:59 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote:..

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 05 Dec 2013, at 19:50, meekerdb wrote: On 12/5/2013 1:41 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: But what has happened is that science has taken away more and more of their domain, It was in the domain at the start. Science is only a lamp, not a truth. It is a way to look at any domain. And the way

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 12/5/2013 8:53 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: I don't know how you count but for me the chance to be in a Dreb world after 24h is 1%^24 ==> infinitesimal. Each choice are independent... That would be the probability that you went to Dreb independently each hour. So you died the first hour, th

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 12/5/2013 1:30 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2013/12/5 meekerdb mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> On 12/5/2013 8:09 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: No, because there is no absolute measure to decrease to begin with. The thing is, doing dangerous thing *increase* likeliness to experience

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013/12/5 meekerdb > On 12/5/2013 8:09 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > No, because there is no absolute measure to decrease to begin with. The > thing is, doing dangerous thing *increase* likeliness to experience being > crippled, that's what is more likely. > > > So what was your measure before

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 12/5/2013 11:05 AM, Jason Resch wrote: The way I have for a time looked at is, is there are X instances that explain your current experience. Some may be "ordinary" while others might be, say a "dream". If in your experience, you encounter something you are unlikely to survive ordinarily,

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 12/5/2013 8:09 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: No, because there is no absolute measure to decrease to begin with. The thing is, doing dangerous thing *increase* likeliness to experience being crippled, that's what is more likely. So what was your measure before you were born? Brent -- You rec

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 12/5/2013 8:07 AM, Jason Resch wrote: How did you get to our current state to begin with? If we keep following it backwards it seems it leads to some primordial conscious state from which any future state might emerge. If the branch in which your are shot by the quantum gun kills you, per

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 05 Dec 2013, at 17:20, Jason Resch wrote: > > So if you were to spend a day in the box with Schrodinger's cat (each hour > having a 50% chance of poisoning you), what would you predict experience to > be at the end of that day? > > > >

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 12/5/2013 2:15 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: In measure theory ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measure_(mathematics) ) just because there are an infinite number does not mean they are equal. Your measure each time you pull the trigger in the

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 12/5/2013 1:41 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: But what has happened is that science has taken away more and more of their domain, It was in the domain at the start. Science is only a lamp, not a truth. It is a way to look at any domain. And the way science looks at a domain is to make models a

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 05 Dec 2013, at 17:13, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2013/12/5 Jason Resch On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 10:06 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2013/12/5 Jason Resch On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 3:25 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2013/12/5 Jason Resch On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 1:48 AM, Quentin

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 12:40 PM, meekerdb wrote: > On 12/5/2013 12:53 AM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > > On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 1:48 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > >> >> >> >> 2013/12/5 Jason Resch >> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 12:59 AM, Quentin Anciaux >>> wrote:... >>> >> P

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 12/5/2013 12:53 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 1:48 AM, Quentin Anciaux > wrote: 2013/12/5 Jason Resch mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 12:59 AM, Quentin Anciaux mailto:allco...@gmail.com>> wrote:...

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 12/5/2013 12:53 AM, Jason Resch wrote: Relative to what? Does not one's measure of being alive drop in half with each trigger pull, Wanna borrow my gun? It's a lot more reliable than that. :-) Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 05 Dec 2013, at 17:20, Jason Resch wrote: So if you were to spend a day in the box with Schrodinger's cat (each hour having a 50% chance of poisoning you), what would you predict experience to be at the end of that day? I like to answer this by this: At the end of the day I feel well a

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013/12/5 Jason Resch > > > > On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 10:53 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > >> >> >> >> 2013/12/5 Jason Resch >> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >>> 2013/12/5 Jason Resch > > > > On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 10:53 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > 2013/12/5 Jason Resch > >> >> >> >> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> >>> 2013/12/5 Jason Resch >>> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 10:13 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > >

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 05 Dec 2013, at 17:09, Jason Resch wrote: > > > >> > Everett said there is a non-denumerable number of copies, can you not > apply relative measure to these? > > > Really? Only in the case of classical QM, but did he pretend that to be

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013/12/5 Jason Resch > > > > On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > >> >> >> >> 2013/12/5 Jason Resch >> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 10:13 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >>> 2013/12/5 Jason Resch > > > > On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > 2013/12/5 Jason Resch > >> >> >> >> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 10:13 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> >>> 2013/12/5 Jason Resch >>> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 10:06 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > >

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 05 Dec 2013, at 17:09, Jason Resch wrote: Everett said there is a non-denumerable number of copies, can you not apply relative measure to these? Really? Only in the case of classical QM, but did he pretend that to be "really" the case? He would favor string theory on any literal q

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013/12/5 Jason Resch > > > > On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 10:13 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > >> >> >> >> 2013/12/5 Jason Resch >> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 10:06 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >>> 2013/12/5 Jason Resch > > > > On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 10:13 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > 2013/12/5 Jason Resch > >> >> >> >> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 10:06 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> >>> 2013/12/5 Jason Resch >>> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 3:25 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > >>

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013/12/5 Jason Resch > > > > On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 10:09 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > >> >> >> >> 2013/12/5 Jason Resch >> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 4:15 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> On 05 Dec 2013, at 09:53, Jason Resch wrote: On Thu, Dec 5, 20

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013/12/5 Jason Resch > > > > On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 10:06 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > >> >> >> >> 2013/12/5 Jason Resch >> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 3:25 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >>> 2013/12/5 Jason Resch > > > > On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 1

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 10:09 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > 2013/12/5 Jason Resch > >> >> >> >> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 4:15 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> >>> On 05 Dec 2013, at 09:53, Jason Resch wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 1:48 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >>> >>

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013/12/5 Jason Resch > > > > On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 4:15 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> >> On 05 Dec 2013, at 09:53, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 1:48 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> >>> 2013/12/5 Jason Resch >>> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 1

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 10:06 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > 2013/12/5 Jason Resch > >> >> >> >> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 3:25 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> >>> 2013/12/5 Jason Resch >>> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 1:48 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > >>>

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013/12/5 Jason Resch > > > > On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 3:25 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > >> >> >> >> 2013/12/5 Jason Resch >> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 1:48 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >>> 2013/12/5 Jason Resch > > > > On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 12

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 4:36 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > 2013/12/5 LizR > >> On 5 December 2013 20:58, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >>> 2013/12/5 LizR >>> Well all the possibilities ever experienced by an human beings anywhere in the multiverse add up to a vanishingly small measur

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 4:15 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 05 Dec 2013, at 09:53, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > > On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 1:48 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > >> >> >> >> 2013/12/5 Jason Resch >> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 12:59 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >>> Measure i

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 3:25 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > 2013/12/5 Jason Resch > >> >> >> >> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 1:48 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> >>> 2013/12/5 Jason Resch >>> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 12:59 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > Measure i

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013/12/5 LizR > On 5 December 2013 20:58, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > >> 2013/12/5 LizR >> >>> Well all the possibilities ever experienced by an human beings anywhere >>> in the multiverse add up to a vanishingly small measure compared to all the >>> parts of the multiverse where we didn't evolve

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 5 December 2013 20:58, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > 2013/12/5 LizR > >> Well all the possibilities ever experienced by an human beings anywhere >> in the multiverse add up to a vanishingly small measure compared to all the >> parts of the multiverse where we didn't evolve, Earth didn't form, etc.

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 05 Dec 2013, at 09:53, Jason Resch wrote: On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 1:48 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2013/12/5 Jason Resch On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 12:59 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: Measure is relative, Yes, so your current measure of next finding yourself in a Drelb continuat

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 05 Dec 2013, at 08:03, LizR wrote: On 5 December 2013 19:59, Quentin Anciaux wrote: Measure is relative, it doesn't drop while you approach death. Probabilities add up to one... And by no cul de dac you should not count where you 're dead. In fact you don't approach death, assuming QT

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 04 Dec 2013, at 11:39, Alberto G. Corona wrote: >You talk like if I was believing in comp, or defending that comp is true. I don't do that at all. So you think that your belief in COMP is product of a computation, At many levels. yes. if comp is assumed, that belief is generated by th

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 04 Dec 2013, at 21:41, meekerdb wrote: On 12/4/2013 1:38 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 03 Dec 2013, at 21:53, meekerdb wrote: On 12/3/2013 10:09 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 02 Dec 2013, at 19:11, meekerdb wrote: On 12/2/2013 1:55 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: wants to be worshiped, judges p

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013/12/5 Jason Resch > > > > On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 1:48 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > >> >> >> >> 2013/12/5 Jason Resch >> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 12:59 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >>> Measure is relative, >>> >>> Yes, so your current measure of next finding yourself in

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