Re: [AFMUG] SNMP

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

I have a few servers that need to send error notifications. Trying to keep
Google accepting those notifications was a real struggle, even when using
TLS + SMTP AUTH. They seem to have set up some options recently, but I
moved those to a third-party mail provider before those became an option so
I don't know if they've fixed this.

I'm looking at options for the next firmware update where a purchaser can
either use their own infrastructure or something we provide.  How much of
"something we provide" is free vs paid or even if we go down this path is
still very much up in the air.

On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 3:30 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> As long as you support SMTP AUTH, I think that should be sufficient.  If
> necessary, someone could always create a Gmail account for this purpose.
>
>
>
> Yes, there are some older devices that expect you to set them up as an MTA
> rather than MUA so they can send unauthenticated SMTP on port 25.  That
> sounds like a really bad plan to me unless you time travel back to maybe
> 1999.  I don’t want to be creating SPF and DKIM and DMARC records for a
> little contact monitoring box, and it sounds like a security nightmare.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Forrest Christian
> (List Account)
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 8, 2024 4:13 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SNMP
>
>
>
> Some devices can be configured to send an email if a contact closes, but
> the way this happens varies between devices.
>
>
>
> My problem with integrating this on the the sitemonitor platform has
> traditionally been that you need a rule system in order to determine when
> to send the email.  I.E. what threshold of voltage, and so on.   This is
> obviously easy in a on/off situation, but not so much in a voltage.   Plus
> you need additional rules so when the voltage is bouncing between 24.0 and
> 24.1 and you have the threshold set at 24.0 you don't get an email every
> time it flaps to 24.0.All of this was impossible to do on the older
> hardware just because of code space limitations.
>
>
>
> The Base 3 has the resources to do this, but the firmware has not yet been
> completed.  There is a rules engine about 3/4 built for the sitemonitor
> system, how long until it sees the light of day, I don't know at this
> point.   The email itself is somewhat easy but I also need to provide some
> sort of email server resources for those who don't have an email system
> which will accept email from random devices.
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 2:55 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> Not following how you are going to use SNMP without a monitoring system.
>
> Packetflux Sitemonitor can turn a contact closure into a 1 or 0 OID that
> an SNMP monitoring system can check at regular intervals, mine mostly polls
> every 1 minute. But then you would typically have your NMS send an alert by
> email or text message.
>
> I tend to monitor analog parameters like voltage or current, then set trip
> points for the NMS to send an informative message. Like UPS input voltage
> at the Podunk site has been below the minimum value of 100 V for more than
> 2 minutes.
>
>  Original Message 
> From: "Chuck McCown via AF"
> Sent: 5/8/2024 2:41:36 PM
> To: "TJ Trout" , "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"
> Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SNMP
>
> So how do Forrest’s products let you know of an issue?  Traps?
>
>
>
> \Would love to NOT have to have NMS just for this.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* TJ Trout
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 8, 2024 1:35 PM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SNMP
>
>
>
> Packet flux can do it all too, the base unit can monitor two voltages and
> temp and a few contact closures, if you need more volt inputs or closures
> you add a expansion unit. No email that I'm aware of
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 8, 2024, 12:23?PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
> No, we have fuse alarms, rectifier, inverter, and other comm equipment
> alarm contacts.  Circuit breaker alarms.  That is why historically I liked
> the netguardian product.  It eats everything.  Monitors DC voltages etc.
> Temps
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Bill Prince
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 8, 2024 1:13 PM
>
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SNMP
>
>
>
> I think if your installed equipment all came from one vendor, there might
> be some way to do their proprietary monitoring solution.
>
> However, SNMP as flawed as it might be, is the only standard that is
> nearly universal (because some implementations are better than others).
>
>
>
> bp
>
&

Re: [AFMUG] SNMP

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Some devices can be configured to send an email if a contact closes, but
the way this happens varies between devices.

My problem with integrating this on the the sitemonitor platform has
traditionally been that you need a rule system in order to determine when
to send the email.  I.E. what threshold of voltage, and so on.   This is
obviously easy in a on/off situation, but not so much in a voltage.   Plus
you need additional rules so when the voltage is bouncing between 24.0 and
24.1 and you have the threshold set at 24.0 you don't get an email every
time it flaps to 24.0.All of this was impossible to do on the older
hardware just because of code space limitations.

The Base 3 has the resources to do this, but the firmware has not yet been
completed.  There is a rules engine about 3/4 built for the sitemonitor
system, how long until it sees the light of day, I don't know at this
point.   The email itself is somewhat easy but I also need to provide some
sort of email server resources for those who don't have an email system
which will accept email from random devices.

On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 2:55 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Not following how you are going to use SNMP without a monitoring system.
>
> Packetflux Sitemonitor can turn a contact closure into a 1 or 0 OID that
> an SNMP monitoring system can check at regular intervals, mine mostly polls
> every 1 minute. But then you would typically have your NMS send an alert by
> email or text message.
>
> I tend to monitor analog parameters like voltage or current, then set trip
> points for the NMS to send an informative message. Like UPS input voltage
> at the Podunk site has been below the minimum value of 100 V for more than
> 2 minutes.
>
>  Original Message 
> From: "Chuck McCown via AF"
> Sent: 5/8/2024 2:41:36 PM
> To: "TJ Trout" , "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"
> Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SNMP
>
> So how do Forrest’s products let you know of an issue?  Traps?
>
> \Would love to NOT have to have NMS just for this.
>
>
> *From:* TJ Trout
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 8, 2024 1:35 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SNMP
>
> Packet flux can do it all too, the base unit can monitor two voltages and
> temp and a few contact closures, if you need more volt inputs or closures
> you add a expansion unit. No email that I'm aware of
>
> On Wed, May 8, 2024, 12:23?PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
>> No, we have fuse alarms, rectifier, inverter, and other comm equipment
>> alarm contacts.  Circuit breaker alarms.  That is why historically I liked
>> the netguardian product.  It eats everything.  Monitors DC voltages etc.
>> Temps
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Bill Prince
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 8, 2024 1:13 PM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SNMP
>>
>>
>> I think if your installed equipment all came from one vendor, there might
>> be some way to do their proprietary monitoring solution.
>>
>> However, SNMP as flawed as it might be, is the only standard that is
>> nearly universal (because some implementations are better than others).
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 5/8/2024 11:30 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>>
>> We are needing to add some monitoring of old fashioned alarm contacts in
>> one of our sites.  In the past I used Netguardians.  Not sure what Forrest
>> has.
>>
>> Is SNMP still the defacto NMS comm method or are there better more modern
>> stuff out there we should be looking at?
>>
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Chuck McCown
>>
>> McCown Technology Corporation
>> 8401 N Commerce Dr
>> Lake Point, Utah 84074
>> 801-250-9503 Office
>> 435-830-4306 Cell
>> www.mccowntech.com
>> www.microtrench.pro
>> www.terabitnetworks.com
>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


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Re: [AFMUG] SNMP

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

As others have mentioned, the existing firmware in the base 3's is
basically SNMP-polling only.  The Base 3 was built to be able to do all of
the other items, but the whole covid supply chain pretty much killed R
around here for a couple years other than keeping product shipping.   It
has finally resumed in earnest, but we're still working through catching up
with upstream underlying firmware/RTOS updates at this point so I don't
know when any additional features will make it out the door orther than a
few that we know we need to get out asap (SNMP writes, auto-cycling of
devices based on ping or voltages, etc).

So, with the existing firmware/software you can monitor all the things you
mentioned; you'll just need an SNMP server to do so, and it will be polling
only.

If you want onboard everything, yes, there are other solutions - such as
the controlbyweb products.   Some do this onboard, some require an external
cloud-based solution.

On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 1:41 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> So how do Forrest’s products let you know of an issue?  Traps?
>
> \Would love to NOT have to have NMS just for this.
>
>
> *From:* TJ Trout
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 8, 2024 1:35 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SNMP
>
> Packet flux can do it all too, the base unit can monitor two voltages and
> temp and a few contact closures, if you need more volt inputs or closures
> you add a expansion unit. No email that I'm aware of
>
> On Wed, May 8, 2024, 12:23 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
>> No, we have fuse alarms, rectifier, inverter, and other comm equipment
>> alarm contacts.  Circuit breaker alarms.  That is why historically I liked
>> the netguardian product.  It eats everything.  Monitors DC voltages etc.
>> Temps
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Bill Prince
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 8, 2024 1:13 PM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SNMP
>>
>>
>> I think if your installed equipment all came from one vendor, there might
>> be some way to do their proprietary monitoring solution.
>>
>> However, SNMP as flawed as it might be, is the only standard that is
>> nearly universal (because some implementations are better than others).
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 5/8/2024 11:30 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>>
>> We are needing to add some monitoring of old fashioned alarm contacts in
>> one of our sites.  In the past I used Netguardians.  Not sure what Forrest
>> has.
>>
>> Is SNMP still the defacto NMS comm method or are there better more modern
>> stuff out there we should be looking at?
>>
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Chuck McCown
>>
>> McCown Technology Corporation
>> 8401 N Commerce Dr
>> Lake Point, Utah 84074
>> 801-250-9503 Office
>> 435-830-4306 Cell
>> www.mccowntech.com
>> www.microtrench.pro
>> www.terabitnetworks.com
>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
- Forrest
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Re: [AFMUG] Pot

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

I think if I was truly using for anxiety I'd be using one of the methods
which doesn't involve smoking.  At least at work.

On Fri, May 3, 2024, 1:58 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> We caught him smoking out in the yard in one of our vehicles.  He was
> asked to find his happiness elsewhere.
>
> Best Regards,
> Chuck McCown
>
> McCown Technology Corporation
> 8401 N Commerce Dr
> Lake Point, Utah 84074
> 801-250-9503 Office
> 435-830-4306 Cell
> www.mccowntech.com
> www.microtrench.pro
> www.terabitnetworks.com
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Friday, May 3, 2024 1:49 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Pot
>
> OK, looking at it another way. Some people need meds to be normal. My son
> has a prescription for lisdexamfetamine because he has ADHD. He's not
> impaired, and it's not like he's a meth head.
>
> That said, I can see a problem if your employee wants to smoke a joint in
> the workplace. Bigtime secondhand smoke problem. And if you don't want him
> operating machinery or vehicles, your insurance company would probably
> agree.
>
> Has he asked to bring his emotional support alligator to work yet?
>
>  Original Message 
> From: "Jan-GAMs"
> Sent: 5/3/2024 2:20:33 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pot
>
> First I would ask for the Dr. to call me.  2nd I would suspend the
> employee until the Dr. calls me.  It could be a type of pot that doesn't
> impair but I wouldn't want to take the chance.  Third, I'd find someone not
> impaired and have them do the job.  Put the doper in charge of a broom
> until layoff time.
> On 5/3/24 09:40, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>
> Darrin makes me think of Samantha oh, Samantha...
>
>
>
> *From:* Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Friday, May 3, 2024 10:21 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Pot
>
>
> My google-foo says it can be:
>
> Kevin
> Ken
> Gary
> Terry
>
> but I like Darren too.
>
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 5/3/2024 9:09 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} @font-face {font-family:"Cambria
> Math"; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}@font-face {font-family:calibri;
> panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}@font-face {font-family:aptos;}@font-face
> {font-family:tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}p.msonormal,
> li.msonormal, div.msonormal {margin:0in; font-size:12.0pt;
> font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;}a:link, span.msohyperlink
> {mso-style-priority:99; color:blue;
> text-decoration:underline;}span.emailstyle20
> {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;
> color:windowtext;}.msochpdefault {mso-style-type:export-only;
> font-size:10.0pt; mso-ligatures:none;}div.wordsection1 {page:wordsection1;}
>
> “I have a card” = entitled Karen (I forget the name for a male Karen, is
> it Darren?)
>
>
>
> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via
> AF
> *Sent:* Friday, May 3, 2024 10:29 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Pot
>
>
>
> I have always had employees that were in rehab.  But never had anyone
> using at work before this guy.  He pointed to the fact he has a pot card
> for anxiety.  I have a card in my pocket that says I am old enough to buy
> whisky too, but I doubt any employer would be OK with me sucking a flask
> while working.
>
>
>
> I know certain prescription conventional drugs can make you not safe to
> operate equipment.  But this guy had to operate equipment as part of his
> job.  I would make an accommodation for someone that had pain meds
> temporarily that left them a bit impaired but not as an every day thing.
>
>
>
> This guy was MAX drama too.  One thing I tell everyone when I hire them,
> the only thing I really care about is no drama.  Do not bring your drama to
> work.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 2, 2024 10:01 PM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Pot
>
>
>
> lite duty, no operating machinery or equipment
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 1, 2024, 9:18?AM  wrote:
>
> I think the ADA does want you to accommodate rehab appointments in
> someone’s work schedule.
>
> …..which I would do anyway.  If they’re working on getting straight I
> don’t want to stand in their way.  I don’t know if anyone goes to rehab for
> pot though.  Probably not.
>
>
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Forrest Christian
> (List Account)
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 01, 2024 5:11 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Mi

Re: [AFMUG] Pot

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Utah code 26-61a-111(4)..

"Nothing in this section requires a private employer to accommodate the use
of medical cannabis or affects the ability of a private employer to have
policies restricting the use of medical cannabis by applicants or
employees."

There are also federal court cases where the court has determined that
marijuana use is not subject to the ADA.

On Tue, Apr 30, 2024, 10:42 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> If an employee has a prescription for pot for anxiety do we have to allow
> them to partake at work.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> --
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> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Won One

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

He's in league with and getting kickbacks from the throw it in the crack
guy.

On Tue, Apr 30, 2024, 12:30 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

> And along comes the 12 year-old neighbor kid to mow the lawn.
> On 4/29/24 15:24, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> The lay it in the crack guy was there. The kick dirt on it guy comes next
> week. Maybe Steve can be that guy.
>
>  Original Message 
> From: "Mike Hammett"
> Sent: 4/29/2024 5:14:21 PM
> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Won One
>
> p { margin: 0; }
> Sometimes it's not even that. I literally did see a drop that was just
> laid into a crack in the dirt. No effort was done to cover it.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Steve Jones"  
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> 
> *Sent: *Monday, April 29, 2024 4:50:38 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Won One
>
> I want to do drops for metronet. just kick dirt on the fiber.
>
> On Mon, Apr 29, 2024, 1:29?PM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> MetroNet does the same thing.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Bill Prince" 
>> *To: *af@af.afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Monday, April 29, 2024 1:09:01 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Won One
>>
>> From my limited experience with them (mostly through friends who have no
>> other choice), their installations are "divide an conquer. They send out a
>> different crew to do every micro-step of an installation.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 4/29/2024 10:52 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>>
>> Had a 150 Mbps customer leave for Comcast/Xfinity 1.3 G $25/ month loss
>> leader service.
>>
>> He lasted a couple months.
>>
>> He said their customer service is non existent.
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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>>
>
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>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] DC power supplies in parallel

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Since I accidentally derailed your thread, I figure I should reply to your
original query.

I'm a fan of reducing complexity where possible.  The problem is that
defining complexity is often ISP and site specific, and sometimes the least
complex solution is also impossible to have staff maintain.  Regardless:

One strategy I use is to try to reduce the number of active "blocks".  I'd
rather have one really good 48V supply instead of several.  The reason
behind this is that each piece of electronics has a certain failure rate.
When you have multiples you find that the failure rate is the combination
of all so if you have 5 supplies with similar failure rates,  you're going
to visit the site 5 times as often for failed supplies.

At an AC site, I'd use one supply for each voltage.   I wouldn't do any
DC-DC since a DC-DC would rely on one of the AC supplies working.   Note
that this statement doesn't apply to a DC site.

The main exception to the above at an AC site is that I would, in some
cases, choose to do multiple power supplies if it gains redundancy.  I.E.
if you do one big power supply which fails, your entire site is down.  If
you do small ones, then only the items on the failed supply is down.  How
extreme you want to go here is up to you - but you're also trading
redundancy for a mess. If I did this, I'd probably just do the 'a/b side'
thing where I essentially build two sites connected to each other, with
redundant backhauls (one per side).




On Fri, Apr 26, 2024, 12:49 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> I have a bunch of various meanwell 48 vDC power supplies mostly  120 and
> 350 watt models with most loads being 45wattish and some 108wattish.
>
> One site im re-cabling has 1100w in PSUs taking a ton of space providing
> for a total demand of around 440w. Seems overkill and only accounts for the
> DC direct powered stuff, not the other 300w or so
>
> Whats the consensus on an AC powered site? individual PSUs for ever
> equipment. Big PSU/rectifier for all?
> Our battery capacity at this particular site is on the APC at the base
> providing just AC to the top, we are not bringing the batteries up for
> reasons and all electronics are up top.
>
>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] DC power supplies in parallel

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Tesla is recommending this because LFP has a very flat discharge curve, so
it is difficult to know the state of charge just from the battery voltage.
In order to provide an accurate battery meter, they have to do coulomb
counting (or some similar method) which keeps track of energy in and out of
the battery.  In theory (and to some extent, in practice), this will allow
them to know exactly how much energy is left in the battery, and provide a
correct "percentage or miles left" indication.

Where reality diverges from theory is the fact that it is impossible to be
100% accurate when counting coulombs. As a result, one has to reset the
coulomb counter to match the state of charge of the battery every once in a
while so the gauge is accurate. For LFP batteries, the easiest way to do
this is to charge the batteries to 100% charge. This is a tradeoff Tesla
has made between being able to have a reliable battery gauge and having a
battery which lasts as long as possible. I can definitely see the reasoning
behind Tesla choosing the reliable battery gauge since I think I would be
pissed if I got stranded because I thought I had plenty of range left when
I didn't.

On Fri, Apr 26, 2024, 7:23 PM Robert  wrote:

> This is what Tesla is recommending for the LFP based model 3 and model Y
> versions.   100% charge.  VS the 80% for the other chemistries.   Tesla is
> also going more in on LFP solutions and the latest investor presentation
> said their proprietary model "breakthrough" battery is no longer an
> emphasis because third party batteries are getting cheaper than they can
> make.
>
> On 4/26/24 1:06 PM, TJ Trout wrote:
>
> Storing a fully charged lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4) battery has a
> minimal impact on its lifespan. In fact, it's recommended to fully charge
> LiFePO4 batteries before storing them for long periods of time. These
> batteries have a low self-discharge rate, typically losing 2% of their
> charge per month. However, fully charged lithium-ion batteries can be
> dangerous if left unused for long periods of time.
>
> On Fri, Apr 26, 2024 at 12:43 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 26, 2024, 1:02 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>>> And I'm still using AGM batteries while all the cool kids are using
>>> LiFePO4 with BCMs, so definitely don't listen to me.
>>>
>>
>> The more I learn about lithium batteries, the more I feel that lithium
>> has relatively few advantages for standby applications.
>>
>> My most recent knowledge acquisition is the fact that if you want to
>> shorten the life of a lithium battery the best way to do so is to keep it
>> fully charged.   The higher the average state of charge,  the shorter the
>> life of the battery, although admitted there isn't much change in lifetime
>> between about 20% and 80%.   But keeping them at 100% isn't great.
>>
>> If you want to store a lithium battery without charging,  it's best to
>> drop the charge below 80% then store.
>>
>> In a standby application you really want to keep a battery at 100% which
>> shortens it's life greatly.   A better choice would be to keep it at 80%
>> max but then you have other issues, not to mention the fact you now have to
>> buy a bigger battery array.
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Thank you,
>
> TJ Trout
> Volt Broadband
> 209.480.3122 Cell
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] DC power supplies in parallel

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

That is a "lie" the BMS is telling you.

When the BMS reports zero,  there is always a certain percentage of power
left in the battery.Often around 20%.  This is because a battery under
20% (or a similar amount) can be dangerous.

My understanding is that some manufacturers do the same thing at the top
side as well,  but I don't have a specific example (except that when one
turns on the limit charge to 85% on Android,  it actually starts reporting
85% as 100%)

What the companies which say that you can discharge to zero are actually
saying is that their battery has X amp hours before the BMS will shut the
battery down.   So yes,  if you have a 80ah battery that you can discharge
to zero, you'll likely find 100Ah of energy in the battery...  you just
can't access the last 20%.   All based on the specifics of the cells used
in the battery.

If instead, you have a battery manufacturer who wants to engage in
specmanship, they'll call it a 100Ah battery but neglect to tell you that
20% of that isn't accessible.

Like I said in the last message,  the exact percentage of energy left at
empty is going to vary.  It's just never 0%.

On Fri, Apr 26, 2024, 3:27 PM TJ Trout  wrote:

> Not to mention you get twice the capacity because lifepo4 can take 0%
> depth of discharge without damage
>
> On Fri, Apr 26, 2024, 1:26 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> I've been an AGM guy, but the last quote we did, it was about $777 for
>> just the AGMs and $900 for LiFePO4 with everything in a neat and tidy
>> rack-mount box.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" 
>> *To: *af@af.afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Friday, April 26, 2024 2:01:22 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] DC power supplies in parallel
>>
>> I tend toward a minimum of AC/DC power supplies, and fuse blocks or DC
>> breakers for the loads. But the other network engineer I work with prefers
>> a dedicated PSU for each load. So you may not get a uninamous
>> recommendation.
>>
>> Note I tend toward DC sites and other guy sees that as unnecessary
>> expense and hardware. So if you are doing AC sites, maybe don't listen to
>> me.
>>
>> And I'm still using AGM batteries while all the cool kids are using
>> LiFePO4 with BCMs, so definitely don't listen to me.
>>
>>  Original Message 
>> From: "Steve Jones"
>> Sent: 4/26/2024 1:49:48 PM
>> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"
>> Subject: [AFMUG] DC power supplies in parallel
>>
>> I have a bunch of various meanwell 48 vDC power supplies mostly  120 and
>> 350 watt models with most loads being 45wattish and some 108wattish.
>>
>> One site im re-cabling has 1100w in PSUs taking a ton of space providing
>> for a total demand of around 440w. Seems overkill and only accounts for the
>> DC direct powered stuff, not the other 300w or so
>>
>> Whats the consensus on an AC powered site? individual PSUs for ever
>> equipment. Big PSU/rectifier for all?
>> Our battery capacity at this particular site is on the APC at the base
>> providing just AC to the top, we are not bringing the batteries up for
>> reasons and all electronics are up top.
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] DC power supplies in parallel

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Just to clarify..

In lithium chemistry batteries there are several aging mechanisms.  Many of
them occur most often below 20% or above 80% (or 85%).   There are also
aging mechanisms which work more slowly the less energy is in the battery.
This applies just as much to LiFePO4 as other chemistries.  Obviously, each
battery variation (chemistry, anode/cathode structure) is optimized in
different ways but all of them are remarkably similar.  For example,  some
specific variants seem to do just fine up to 85% instead of 80%.

As a result of the degration increase outside the 20/80 range, the
recommendation for long term storage is often to charge to 80% and then
make sure the battery is not permitted to self discharge below 20%.  Where
one can reliably maintain the batteries through periodic charges, it isn't
unreasonable to charge to 30% every couple of months and keep the battery
between 20 and 30%.  This last option is, of course, only useful when you
don't need the batteries stored with charge.

For standby applications it's also best if your charger is set to allow the
battery to cycle a bit instead of keeping the battery "full".  That is,
charge to 80% then let it sit until it drops to 75% and then recharge all
at once.

I do need to soften this slightly... cycling a battery up to 100% and then
discharging isn't nearly as bad as dropping below 20%.  This is all a game
of capacity vs life vs cost.   If keeping a battery at 100% only reduces
its life by 10% vs using a 80% max charge, then it might be more cost
effective to use a 100% since you can buy a smaller battery which may be
10% less.  I'm not sure I'd set my charger to go over 95% or so even then
as there are some pretty aggressive degradation methods right at 100% and
sometimes it's hard to be sure if you're getting too close to that line.

On the other hand, where the battery life is a small portion of the cost of
a bigger product and the battery is not replaceable, limiting charge to 80
(or 85%) can push the life out further.   Many android phones have a
setting to limit charge to 85% to make the battery last longer as a result.

On Fri, Apr 26, 2024, 2:12 PM TJ Trout  wrote:

> Storing a fully charged lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4) battery has a
> minimal impact on its lifespan. In fact, it's recommended to fully charge
> LiFePO4 batteries before storing them for long periods of time. These
> batteries have a low self-discharge rate, typically losing 2% of their
> charge per month. However, fully charged lithium-ion batteries can be
> dangerous if left unused for long periods of time.
>
> On Fri, Apr 26, 2024 at 12:43 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 26, 2024, 1:02 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>>> And I'm still using AGM batteries while all the cool kids are using
>>> LiFePO4 with BCMs, so definitely don't listen to me.
>>>
>>
>> The more I learn about lithium batteries, the more I feel that lithium
>> has relatively few advantages for standby applications.
>>
>> My most recent knowledge acquisition is the fact that if you want to
>> shorten the life of a lithium battery the best way to do so is to keep it
>> fully charged.   The higher the average state of charge,  the shorter the
>> life of the battery, although admitted there isn't much change in lifetime
>> between about 20% and 80%.   But keeping them at 100% isn't great.
>>
>> If you want to store a lithium battery without charging,  it's best to
>> drop the charge below 80% then store.
>>
>> In a standby application you really want to keep a battery at 100% which
>> shortens it's life greatly.   A better choice would be to keep it at 80%
>> max but then you have other issues, not to mention the fact you now have to
>> buy a bigger battery array.
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Thank you,
>
> TJ Trout
> Volt Broadband
> 209.480.3122 Cell
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] DC power supplies in parallel

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

On Fri, Apr 26, 2024, 1:02 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> And I'm still using AGM batteries while all the cool kids are using
> LiFePO4 with BCMs, so definitely don't listen to me.
>

The more I learn about lithium batteries, the more I feel that lithium has
relatively few advantages for standby applications.

My most recent knowledge acquisition is the fact that if you want to
shorten the life of a lithium battery the best way to do so is to keep it
fully charged.   The higher the average state of charge,  the shorter the
life of the battery, although admitted there isn't much change in lifetime
between about 20% and 80%.   But keeping them at 100% isn't great.

If you want to store a lithium battery without charging,  it's best to drop
the charge below 80% then store.

In a standby application you really want to keep a battery at 100% which
shortens it's life greatly.   A better choice would be to keep it at 80%
max but then you have other issues, not to mention the fact you now have to
buy a bigger battery array.
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Re: [AFMUG] Modbus TCP with Analog I/O

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Lots of options at automation direct.

I might just consider a click plc if none of the modbus only options work
for you.


On Thu, Mar 21, 2024, 1:53 PM Matt  wrote:

> I am looking for an affordable ethernet TCP modbus addressed device
> with multiple Analog/Digital I/O. Preferably DIN rail mountable.
>
> Anybody know of anything?
>
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Re: [AFMUG] CALEA and WiFi

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

I see CALEA as a holdover from those days when most of the traffic on the
internet was unecrypted.  Law enforcement wanted to be able to wiretap the
internet just like they could wiretap POTS.

Nowadays,  I'm not sure what law enforcement could actually do with the
captured data.   What an isp has access to is largely encrypted over the
wire.   I guess some data might be useful but I'm guessing that law
enforcement has learned that looking at a capture of customer data isn't as
useful as they thought it would be.

About the only thing I can think of right this second which might be at
least frequently unencrypted anymore is VoIP and/or DNS depending on your
configuration.   But if I was carrying on criminal activities across the
net I'd probably be looking at ways to encrypt everything which isn't hard
to do.

On Mon, Mar 18, 2024, 4:17 PM Mark Radabaugh  wrote:

> While CALEA is still on the books it doesn’t seem to be of much interest
> to LEA.
>
> No - you do not have to be able to identify the user.  If LEA can identify
> a specific end user for you out of the WiFi, then yes, they could ask for
> you to monitor it but keep in mind that CALEA isn’t meant for historical
> data.   It’s meant to be real-time capture once they have identified a
> particular person of interest (well, a specific phone number, IP address,
> etc.).
>
> Every year I get a phone call from the FBI verifying our contact
> information and how to get hold of us if they need something.  I point out
> that we file our CALEA documents and ask why they are calling - and they
> say ‘oh, we don’t use that’.   Uh,  got it.   But the FCC still thinks it’s
> important and you best follow the rules and file it anyway.  Local and
> State LEA has never heard of CALEA.   It’s just one more bureaucracy on
> autopilot that has outlived it’s usefulness.
>
> Mark
>
>
> On Mar 18, 2024, at 6:29 AM, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> CALEA hasn’t been on my radar much, so this is probably an old topic, but
> it’s one I don’t know much about.
>
> If you provide WiFi in a public space how do you handle compliance?  We
> have parks, airports, and other public spaces with managed WiFi.  There are
> also MDU’s with WiFi in a public area like a courtyard, lounge, lobby, etc.
>
> My understanding is you have to be able to capture traffic if you’re
> ordered to do so.  Do you also have to be able to identify the individual?
>
> If they ever asked me to capture all traffic from the park WiFi….sure no
> problem.  If they gave me a particular IP, port, and time, and they wanted
> me to start capturing traffic AND identify who it was, then I would only be
> able to tell them it was someone at the park.  At *best* I could give
> them a MAC address and hostname.  If I have to identify the *customer*
> that’s easy: the municipal parks department, but I’m guessing that’s not
> what they will want to know.
>
> Will this stuff get us in trouble?
>
> -Adam
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Security camera experience

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

The problem I've found with bullt in illumination for outdoor cameras is
that often the leds for illumination are behind the glass the camera is
looking through.   As a result,  the illuminator ends up illuminating
anything that is on the glass and preventing good night vision. In an
outdoor setting, the glass doesn't stay clean for very long so for outdoor
cameras I almost always use an external illuminator.

I don't know how the camera you mentioned is designed and if that is the
case with it.

On Mon, Mar 4, 2024, 2:35 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> I might, but the built-in illuminator goes an advertised 82 feet, which
> is a bit farther than I need. I've seen comparisons between the G5
> cameras and the G4s and G3s, and the G5 is noticeably sharper; even in IR.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 3/4/2024 12:30 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> > Someone told me there is a USB connector for powering an illuminator.
> But
> > it sounds like you are already planning on one of these:
> >
> https://store.ui.com/us/en/collections/unifi-accessory-tech-camera-enhancers
> > /products/uacc-g5-enhancer
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
> > Sent: Monday, March 4, 2024 2:13 PM
> > To: af@af.afmug.com
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Security camera experience
> >
> > The G5-PRO does allow you to turn off its IR so you can add a different
> > illuminator. However, being color blind, I'm not all that impressed by
> > color. That would also require running another cable to power the
> > illuminator.
> >
> > bp
> > 
> >
> > On 3/4/2024 11:37 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> >> Some people get a powerful add-on IR illuminator, that could also let
> you
> >> choose the wavelength to make sure it's not visible.
> >>
> >> I've seen ads for color night vision cameras, that could be good IF it
> > works
> >> as advertised.  On our G4 Pro tower cameras I wish I could delay the
> > switch
> >> to night vision until it's really dark, the B image is less useful.
> >>
> >> Here's an example of what I've seen advertised:
> >>
> >> https://www.tp-link.com/us/technology/tapo-camera/
> >>
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
> >> Sent: Monday, March 4, 2024 1:09 PM
> >> To: af@af.afmug.com
> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Security camera experience
> >>
> >> The only problems with that camera are 1)Effectively no sun in this
> >> location, 2)No LTE available there, 3)No IR mode, and 4)The spotlight
> > (which
> >> I don't want anyway) only goes 26 feet (big whoop).
> >>
> >>
> >> bp
> >> 
> >>
> >> On 3/4/2024 10:43 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> >>> Not really answering your question, but I did see this article a few
> >>> days
> >>> ago:
> >>> https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/27/24085151/anker-eufy-4k-lte-cam-s330
> >>> -featu
> >>> res-price
> >>>
> >>> As far as Ubiquiti cameras, I only have the F4-Pro so can't comment on
> >>> the G5.
> >>>
> >>> At night, IR mode is a mixed bag.  People and critters become glowing
> >> eyes.
> >>> In some weather we get swirling fog or mystery floaties.
> >>>
> >>> -Original Message-
> >>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
> >>> Sent: Monday, March 4, 2024 12:31 PM
> >>> To: AFMUG 
> >>> Subject: [AFMUG] Security camera experience
> >>>
> >>> I tried sending this "OT", but nothing happened (reminds me of a
> >>> 3-Stooges script), so I decided that maybe it's not so off topic after
> >> all.
> >>> We want to put up a security camera where it is far enough away, and
> >>> with terrain & tree issues overlooking the entrance to our property.
> >>> It will be about 50-60 feet above the driveway. There are no lights
> >>> down there, and the spot where I want to put it is difficult enough to
> >>> reach that I don't want to mess with batteries or WiFi. So it will be a
> >> wired/POE camera.
> >>> The camera that (so far) seems to meet my needs is the Unifi
> >>> UVC-G5-PRO, mainly because it has an ~~80 foot range in IR mode, and
> >>> the image quality is noticeably better than the G4 and below models.
> >>> It also has enough smarts to act as a "doorbell" of sorts should anyone
> >> come driving up.
> >>> One downside is that it's WHITE, so I will need to camo it somewhat. I
> >>> don't know if the IR is low or no glow, but that would be a major plus
> >>> if it had it because I don't want it drawing attention.
> >>>
> >>> It will also require Ubiqiti's Cloud Key G2+ to act as an NVR (and it
> >>> can handle a few more cameras should the need arise).
> >>>
> >>> Before I pull the trigger on this, I thought I'd throw it out to the
> >>> Borg to see if anyone has any other thoughts or recommendations.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> bp
> >>> 
> >>>
> >>>
> >> --
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> >>
> >>
> >>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Wood Pole Mount

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Or a chimney strap mount?

On Tue, Feb 20, 2024, 10:54 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Or the ChannelMaster 4" offset wall mounts, we call them W brackets.
>
>  Original Message 
> From: "Josh Luthman"
> Sent: 2/20/2024 9:37:59 AM
> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wood Pole Mount
>
> Just use a Jpole?  Or an MTOW?
>
> On Tue, Feb 20, 2024 at 10:31?AM Matt  wrote:
>
>> I need to mount a small steel pole to a wood light pole. The kits I
>> see online are like $300 range and way more robust than I need. Just
>> mounting a small yagi a few feet above the top of the wood pole. Does
>> anyone know of anything?
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Packetflux delivery times

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

We used to do pretty good at almost always having stock, and if we ran out
of something the replenishment stock was only a few days from being on the
shelf.

Then 2020 happened, and then supply chain crap happened, and a thousand
other things seemed to conspire to prevent us from getting back to that
state.

The good news is that it looks like we're close to being back to just
having stock.   Right this second,  the inventory spreadsheet seems to
think we have,  on average, 15 days of stock.   That doesn't mean we
currently have 15 days worth of everything.   It's more like of 30 days of
one thing and almost nothing of something else.

I have every expectation we'll be up to 60 days pretty much across the
board in another couple months.

As far as the website not reporting stock, there's a whole set of stories
there which are more of an in person discussion.  Suffice it to say we wish
it did too.

On Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 7:45 AM Tyson Burris  wrote:

> Yes, it’s a fairly common problem.  I have gone 2-4 weeks at times.  I do
> wish his website reported stock.  I usually just assume a few weeks anymore.
>
>
>
>
>
> *Tyson Burris*
> *President & CEO*
>
>
>
> Internet Communications Inc (ICI)
>
> 739 Commerce Dr. Franklin, IN 46131
>
>
>
> [image: Mobile mobile-icon]317-412-1540 (emergency/after-hours)
> [image: phone phone-icon]317-738-0320 (office)
> [image: Email email-icon]  t...@franklinisp.net
> [image: website website-icon]  www.surfici.net
>
>
>
>
>
> *Fixed Wireless Broadband - PtP/PtMP Solutions – Indoor/Oudoor Wifi - IP
> Cameras - Fiber – MDUs  *
>
>
>
> *Active Member To The Following**:*
>
>
>
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>
> NBBC 
>
>
>
> Confidentiality Notice:
>
>
>
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
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>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 30, 2024 9:38 AM
> *To:* AFMUG 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Packetflux delivery times
>
>
>
> Has anyone ordered a Site Monitor this month?  I'm at 2 weeks of pending
> order and haven't heard anything.
>
>
>
> I didn't want to open a Tech support ticket, Forrest.  I don't mean to
> call you out but I figured we're all friends here.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
>
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
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Re: [AFMUG] Packetflux delivery times

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Pretty much all of the orders are going out today.   A couple that need spec

I think this is the start of being at least intermittently back to all the
normal stuff usually being in stock.

On Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 7:45 AM Tyson Burris  wrote:

> Yes, it’s a fairly common problem.  I have gone 2-4 weeks at times.  I do
> wish his website reported stock.  I usually just assume a few weeks anymore.
>
>
>
>
>
> *Tyson Burris*
> *President & CEO*
>
>
>
> Internet Communications Inc (ICI)
>
> 739 Commerce Dr. Franklin, IN 46131
>
>
>
> [image: Mobile mobile-icon]317-412-1540 (emergency/after-hours)
> [image: phone phone-icon]317-738-0320 (office)
> [image: Email email-icon]  t...@franklinisp.net
> [image: website website-icon]  www.surfici.net
>
>
>
>
>
> *Fixed Wireless Broadband - PtP/PtMP Solutions – Indoor/Oudoor Wifi - IP
> Cameras - Fiber – MDUs  *
>
>
>
> *Active Member To The Following**:*
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>
>
> WISPA 
>
> NBBC 
>
>
>
> Confidentiality Notice:
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>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 30, 2024 9:38 AM
> *To:* AFMUG 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Packetflux delivery times
>
>
>
> Has anyone ordered a Site Monitor this month?  I'm at 2 weeks of pending
> order and haven't heard anything.
>
>
>
> I didn't want to open a Tech support ticket, Forrest.  I don't mean to
> call you out but I figured we're all friends here.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
>
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
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Re: [AFMUG] Packetflux delivery times

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Shipping out today.   Along with all the other base 3 orders.   We're
finally almost all caught up.   The base 3 was the last of the regularly
stocked items that we were backlogged on.

On Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 7:39 AM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Has anyone ordered a Site Monitor this month?  I'm at 2 weeks of pending
> order and haven't heard anything.
>
> I didn't want to open a Tech support ticket, Forrest.  I don't mean to
> call you out but I figured we're all friends here.
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] compensation for employees

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Plus with some of the new 401k providers being very low cost,  it
effectively becomes a maximum of a 4% increase in salary costs.

I use guideline.com over here.   Cheap,  good, low cost mutual funds,  etc.

On Sun, Jan 28, 2024, 8:17 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> True.
>
>
>
> 1976-1988 were my Rockwell years.  Back then, benefits were key to hiring
> and retention, and the big 3 were (1) 401K match, (2) “cafeteria” health
> insurance, and (3) tuition reimbursement.
>
>
>
> My recollection is they matched 401K contributions dollar-for-dollar up to
> 3% of income.  That’s a no-brainer, basically free money, and a way for the
> company to incent people to put some money away tax-deferred for retirement
> rather than assuming they can live on Social Security alone.  But not
> entirely altruistic, I believe that was a safe harbor to avoid a test
> whether too much of the tax benefit was going to higher earners, managers
> and owners.
>
>
>
> But that was long, long ago.
>
>
>
> Oh, and tuition reimbursement was interesting.  If I remember right, you
> got 100% for an A, 75% for a B, 50% for a C, and zilch for a D or F.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Robert
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 28, 2024 8:14 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] compensation for employees
>
>
>
> People don't always know what is best for them.   But fully funding an IRA
> would be a way to funnel money to them without taxes that might be
> appreciated when they do their taxes..
>
> On 1/28/24 6:09 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>
> I would be a bit surprised if anyone that works on my shop floor would
> prefer that.  We only have 25 employees and they are mostly welders etc.  I
> wonder if any of them even have an IRA.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Robert
>
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 28, 2024 7:53 PM
>
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] compensation for employees
>
>
>
> Fully fund IRAs?
>
> On 1/28/24 5:18 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>
> Thanks Ken,
>
> No stock options.  I am slowly giving the company to a couple sons that
> are putting in the sweat equity.  Still not sure about production based
> bonuses.  Should everyone get the same amount?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof
>
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 28, 2024 1:11 PM
>
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] compensation for employees
>
>
>
> I worked for big companies in the 80’s and remember profit sharing and
> Christmas bonuses.  Then we had a period of startups with stock options as
> a huge part of compensation – the idea was you worked 80 hour weeks for
> modest pay but if the company hit it big your options could be worth a
> lot.  I suspect some people hit the jackpot and a lot more got the shaft.
>
>
>
> My sense is that employees today are mostly focused on the short term.
> They have bills to pay, they want to know what income they can count on,
> they probably don’t want to roll the dice on profit sharing or a bonus or
> stock options.  Also, Millennials and Gen XYZ I talk to seem to view
> employment as transactional, and they don’t necessarily identify with the
> company or the owners (thanks to companies like Amazon and owners like
> Bezos).
>
>
>
> So while I don’t have any hard facts, my guess is you’re doing the right
> thing already.  If you’re inclined to tie compensation to company
> performance, I wouldn’t make it a large percentage, and I wouldn’t try to
> use it as an incentive for people to work insane hours or achieve
> impossible goals (like Elon Musk’s “extremely hardcore”).  And I’d make it
> fairly short term, like monthly or something, so employees aren’t making
> their families scrimp in hopes of a windfall at the end of the quarter or
> year.
>
>
>
> If you do experience hard times, reduced hours might be a temporary
> solution at least for hourly employees.  Realizing that with low
> unemployment, some of them might move elsewhere.
>
>
>
> The good news is that any part of your business tied to fiber projects is
> likely to have at least 5 good years coming.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com  *On
> Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 28, 2024 12:16 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] compensation for employees
>
>
>
> My latest pivot a couple of years ago to microtrenching blades, adding
> grout machines, then microtrenching saw attachments and now to a
> specialized type of vacuum excavator has gone extremely well.  Almost no
> software involved.  Just a little in a motion control PCB in the grout
> machine to control the hydrostatic transmission.  This is by far my most
> profitable season I have ever had in 50 years of running some kind of
> hustle.  And those years of the stinger and other related antennas and
> hardware were not bad at all.  I am a bit more confident that these new
> “durable products” have more legs than the antennas that were radio
> specific.
>
>
>
> But having been through wax and wane of 

Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Juniper has caught the "subscription required to use on an ongoing basis"
disease all big routing/switching companies seem to eventually catch.
 Plus HP is trying to acquire them.

The current used gear is probably usable but there seems to be some debate
how long this will last as far as any future software updates.

So... if you're happy with the functionality of current software,  they are
a solid option.   Just don't expect to be able to use the next generation
in a similar way.

On Wed, Jan 10, 2024, 6:54 PM Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> Is this worth looking at or is it too problematic from a support / update
> perspective? New Juniper is not in my budget.
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] Ken Hohof

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

The short version is this:

Some US laws and regulations basically require a license for "receive-only
earth stations," which operate with any non-US satellite service.   This,
unfortunately, includes GNSS systems such as GALILEO and GLONASS.  The link
Ken provided ( https://www.gps.gov/spectrum/foreign/ ) is a good spot to
describe the government's position and provide links to the CFR sections
about this and so on.

However, the problem is that the FCC only started making noise about GNSS
being affected by this a few years ago. By then, thousands, if not
millions, of GPS+GLONASS receivers were operating in the US.  Trying to
stuff that back in the bag is not really possible.  And it's getting harder
and harder as more are added every day.

The official legal status is that GPS is fine (obviously).  In addition,
there is a waiver process that foreign systems can go through, and GALILEO
(and only GALILEO) has completed that.   So we're left with GPS+GALILEO
being the only multi-GNSS system with the US government stamp of approval.
 I doubt we will ever see any enforcement actions here as almost every
single American has an unlicensed ground station in their pocket (as you
pointed out).

There are other reasons why GLONASS, in particular, isn't an ideal GNSS
system for the timing applications we use.   The main technical one is that
the specified GLONASS-UTC offset is up to 1ms (1/1000th of a second),
whereas GPS and GALILEO are better than 1us (1 millionth of a second).   In
fairness to GLONASS, they are typically under 1uS as well, but their offset
is usually bigger than either GPS or GALILEO (with GALILEO typically being
the best).   But the summary is that adding GLONASS to GPS tends to
slightly reduce the precision of the timing signal, and adding GALILEO
typically improves it.

I've purposely ignored the geopolitical issues here, but I will state
this:  I'm also not 100% comfortable with using a system that relies on
Russia not deciding to intentionally mess with the signals from GLONASS.

This all adds up to the reason why I decided to switch the defaults to all
GPS+GALILEO.  It's guaranteed to be actually legal.  Technically
GPS+GLONASS is a better choice than GPS+GALILEO.  And finally, GALILEO
doesn't roll their date over every 4 years, causing issues.

On Mon, Jan 1, 2024 at 3:14 PM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> US cell phones have GLONASS support.  What makes you say there's a legal
> question?
>
> On Sun, Dec 31, 2023 at 6:10 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>> Some customers wanted the added redundancy that comes with more
>> satellites.  The irony of the thing which we changed to improve reliability
>> biting one in the rear with this issue is not lost on me.
>>
>> At this point, everything is going out with GPS+GALILEO since there is
>> some question about if it is even legal to operate a GLONASS receiver in
>> the USA.
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 31, 2023 at 2:26 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> What is the benefit to using glonass?
>>> For timing is not GPS good enough?
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, December 31, 2023 10:10 AM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ken Hohof
>>>
>>> Well hopefully most everything can be remotely handled.
>>>
>>> I'm really really hoping that the fix my current GPS vendor provided
>>> actually survives the rollover.  Otherwise this is going to be a much
>>> bigger mess.
>>>
>>> I really wish multi GNSS simulators weren't so expensive.   Like costs
>>> more than we make on syncboxes for a couple/few years expensive.   They're
>>> also not available to lease for any reasonable price.  As a result I get to
>>> trust that my vendor did exactly the right thing here.
>>>
>>> I'm hanging around the phone for the inevitable panicked call from the
>>> customer who ignored (or didn't get) all of the messages we sent out.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Dec 31, 2023, 9:07 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all.  Happy New Year.  I have to do GLONASS fixups at 3pm today, the
>>>> forecast is freezing rain.  Yay!
>>>>
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
>>>> Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2023 12:08 AM
>>>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>>>> Cc: Chuck McCown 
>>>> Subject: [AFMUG] Ken Hohof
>>>>
>>>> Everbuddy say welcome back Ken!!!
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> AF mailing list
>>>> AF@af.afmug

Re: [AFMUG] PMP450i GPS/Sync issue

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

There was a fairly short period of time that both packetflux and cambium
were both shipping GNSS receivers which were susceptible to this issue.
 I'm guessing that your deployment of 450i 900Mhz corresponds to that time
period.

(The period is documented at packetflux.info )

On Sun, Dec 31, 2023, 11:08 PM Christopher Tyler 
wrote:

> Well that was fun. 8 hours of power cycling AP's. Just rebooting the AP's
> didn't fix it. Thankfully not every 450 radio seems to have freaked out.
> Weird that it really only affected some of our 900 Mhz 450i radios.
>
> But to top it all off we still have some sites that are on stand-alone
> syncpipes with no way to reboot them. So we'll have to roll tucks to about
> 20 sites overnight. Yay.
>
>
> 
> Christopher Tyler
> Senior Network Engineer
> Total Highspeed Internet Solutions
> +1 417-851-1107 ext 9002
> ch...@totalhighspeed.net
>
> <https://outlook.office.com/bookwithme/user/1f29ddb141b647f08b33d9cf03835...@totalhighspeed.net?anonymous=signature>
>  Book
> time to meet with me
> <https://outlook.office.com/bookwithme/user/1f29ddb141b647f08b33d9cf03835...@totalhighspeed.net?anonymous=signature>
>
> This institution is an equal opportunity provider and employer. Esta
> institución es un proveedor de servicios con igualdad de oportunidades.
> ------
> *From:* AF  on behalf of Forrest Christian (List
> Account) 
> *Sent:* Sunday, December 31, 2023 6:14 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] PMP450i GPS/Sync issue
>
> Plus, if a rackinjector was previously upgraded to a reasonably-recent
> version (and the default settings weren't changed), it shouldn't have seen
> the issue at all, as the firmware in the rackinjector defaults to disabling
> GLONASS.
>
> (This is my plea for everyone to upgrade to the latest version as it isn't
> just this issue that version resolves).
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 31, 2023 at 4:54 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> Rackinjectors there is a button in the GUI to disable GPS power then turn
> it back on. Very easy and can be done remotely.
>
>  Original Message 
> From: "Cassidy B. Larson"
> Sent: 12/31/2023 5:47:42 PM
> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PMP450i GPS/Sync issue
>
> It’s the GPS you’re using. You’ll want to power cycle the radio, if it’s
> powering the GPS unit itself, or power cycle the CMM5/rackinjector if it’s
> providing GPS for your radios.
>
> https://www.cambiumnetworks.com/support/field-service-bulletins/fsb9079/
> <https://protect-usb.mimecast.com/s/rm1lC8XrzoH6oW7In-HH2?domain=cambiumnetworks.com/>
>
> For us, we’re just visiting a few of the sites that have
> CMM5/rackinjectors impacted GPS units for now and unplugging/plugging the
> GPS to avoid rebooting.. and mopping up with reboots one by one for those
> that have their own GPS late tonight.
>
>
> On Dec 31, 2023, at 16:42, Christopher Tyler 
> wrote:
>
> A couple of hours ago all of our PMP450i radios started losing sync,
> reaquire, then lose again. Is anyone else seeing similar issues? All other
> 450 AP's seem to be working fine.
>
> 
> Christopher Tyler
> Senior Network Engineer
> Total Highspeed Internet Solutions
> +1 417-851-1107 ext 9002
> ch...@totalhighspeed.net
> 
> <https://protect-usb.mimecast.com/s/i16mC93vApIkGA5UEXaT-?domain=outlook.office.com>
>  Book
> time to meet with me
> <https://protect-usb.mimecast.com/s/i16mC93vApIkGA5UEXaT-?domain=outlook.office.com>
>
> This institution is an equal opportunity provider and employer. Esta
> institución es un proveedor de servicios con igualdad de oportunidades.
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> <https://protect-usb.mimecast.com/s/NcGUC0Ajo2SG1QRU2ZHze?domain=af.afmug.com>
>
>
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> <https://protect-usb.mimecast.com/s/NcGUC0Ajo2SG1QRU2ZHze?domain=af.afmug.com>
>
>
>
> --
> - Forrest
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Re: [AFMUG] PMP450i GPS/Sync issue

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

We had several sites with the aux port units,  and I was successful on all
of those sites in opening a tab to the page with the reboot button on each
ap and then quickly rebooting them all at once.

We found one site where the syncbox was apparently not powered through any
device which is remotely rebootable.  I'm guessing that some enterprising
employee plugged it into something not attached to the UPS.

We had a second site where the the remote management is simply
inaccessible.   Frustratingly, the management device wasn't being monitored
so we had no idea it wasn't responding.

All of the modern syncboxes (post mid-2020) and the earlier GPS-only units
continued to operate.  Plus,  any connected to a rackinjector or base 3
managed injector didn't have any issues at all.

On Mon, Jan 1, 2024, 4:44 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Are these Syncpipe Parasitics? Or parasitically powered Syncboxes? Those
> should be the only ones that require power cycling the AP.
>
> I did not have to reboot any APs. It's actually the GPS receiver that
> needs to be power cycled.
>
>  Original Message 
> From: "Colin Stanners"
> Sent: 1/1/2024 12:12:17 AM
> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PMP450i GPS/Sync issue
>
> You can't command the UPSes to reboot the sites? Which UPS models are
> they? Sorry to hear that.
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 1, 2024, 12:07?a.m. Christopher Tyler <
> ch...@totalhighspeed.net> wrote:
>
>> Well that was fun. 8 hours of power cycling AP's. Just rebooting the AP's
>> didn't fix it. Thankfully not every 450 radio seems to have freaked out.
>> Weird that it really only affected some of our 900 Mhz 450i radios.
>>
>> But to top it all off we still have some sites that are on stand-alone
>> syncpipes with no way to reboot them. So we'll have to roll tucks to about
>> 20 sites overnight. Yay.
>>
>>
>> 
>> Christopher Tyler
>> Senior Network Engineer
>> Total Highspeed Internet Solutions
>> +1 417-851-1107 ext 9002
>> ch...@totalhighspeed.net
>>
>> <https://outlook.office.com/bookwithme/user/1f29ddb141b647f08b33d9cf03835...@totalhighspeed.net?anonymous=signature>
>>  Book
>> time to meet with me
>> <https://outlook.office.com/bookwithme/user/1f29ddb141b647f08b33d9cf03835...@totalhighspeed.net?anonymous=signature>
>>
>> This institution is an equal opportunity provider and employer. Esta
>> institución es un proveedor de servicios con igualdad de oportunidades.
>> --
>> *From:* AF  on behalf of Forrest Christian
>> (List Account) 
>> *Sent:* Sunday, December 31, 2023 6:14 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] PMP450i GPS/Sync issue
>>
>> Plus, if a rackinjector was previously upgraded to a reasonably-recent
>> version (and the default settings weren't changed), it shouldn't have seen
>> the issue at all, as the firmware in the rackinjector defaults to disabling
>> GLONASS.
>>
>> (This is my plea for everyone to upgrade to the latest version as it
>> isn't just this issue that version resolves).
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 31, 2023 at 4:54?PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>> Rackinjectors there is a button in the GUI to disable GPS power then turn
>> it back on. Very easy and can be done remotely.
>>
>>  Original Message 
>> From: "Cassidy B. Larson"
>> Sent: 12/31/2023 5:47:42 PM
>> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PMP450i GPS/Sync issue
>>
>> It’s the GPS you’re using. You’ll want to power cycle the radio, if it’s
>> powering the GPS unit itself, or power cycle the CMM5/rackinjector if it’s
>> providing GPS for your radios.
>>
>> https://www.cambiumnetworks.com/support/field-service-bulletins/fsb9079/
>> <https://protect-usb.mimecast.com/s/rm1lC8XrzoH6oW7In-HH2?domain=cambiumnetworks.com/>
>>
>> For us, we’re just visiting a few of the sites that have
>> CMM5/rackinjectors impacted GPS units for now and unplugging/plugging the
>> GPS to avoid rebooting.. and mopping up with reboots one by one for those
>> that have their own GPS late tonight.
>>
>>
>> On Dec 31, 2023, at 16:42, Christopher Tyler 
>> wrote:
>>
>> A couple of hours ago all of our PMP450i radios started losing sync,
>> reaquire, then lose again. Is anyone else seeing similar issues? All other
>> 450 AP's seem to be working fine.
>>
>> 
>> Christopher Tyler
>> Senior Network Engineer
>> Total Highspeed Internet Solutions
>> +1 417-851-1107 ext 9002
>> ch...@tota

Re: [AFMUG] PMP450i GPS/Sync issue

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Plus, if a rackinjector was previously upgraded to a reasonably-recent
version (and the default settings weren't changed), it shouldn't have seen
the issue at all, as the firmware in the rackinjector defaults to disabling
GLONASS.

(This is my plea for everyone to upgrade to the latest version as it isn't
just this issue that version resolves).


On Sun, Dec 31, 2023 at 4:54 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Rackinjectors there is a button in the GUI to disable GPS power then turn
> it back on. Very easy and can be done remotely.
>
>  Original Message 
> From: "Cassidy B. Larson"
> Sent: 12/31/2023 5:47:42 PM
> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PMP450i GPS/Sync issue
>
> It’s the GPS you’re using. You’ll want to power cycle the radio, if it’s
> powering the GPS unit itself, or power cycle the CMM5/rackinjector if it’s
> providing GPS for your radios.
>
> https://www.cambiumnetworks.com/support/field-service-bulletins/fsb9079/
>
> For us, we’re just visiting a few of the sites that have
> CMM5/rackinjectors impacted GPS units for now and unplugging/plugging the
> GPS to avoid rebooting.. and mopping up with reboots one by one for those
> that have their own GPS late tonight.
>
>
> On Dec 31, 2023, at 16:42, Christopher Tyler 
> wrote:
>
> A couple of hours ago all of our PMP450i radios started losing sync,
> reaquire, then lose again. Is anyone else seeing similar issues? All other
> 450 AP's seem to be working fine.
>
> 
> Christopher Tyler
> Senior Network Engineer
> Total Highspeed Internet Solutions
> +1 417-851-1107 ext 9002
> ch...@totalhighspeed.net
> 
> 
>  Book
> time to meet with me
> 
>
> This institution is an equal opportunity provider and employer. Esta
> institución es un proveedor de servicios con igualdad de oportunidades.
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Re: [AFMUG] Ken Hohof

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Some customers wanted the added redundancy that comes with more
satellites.  The irony of the thing which we changed to improve reliability
biting one in the rear with this issue is not lost on me.

At this point, everything is going out with GPS+GALILEO since there is some
question about if it is even legal to operate a GLONASS receiver in the USA.

On Sun, Dec 31, 2023 at 2:26 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> What is the benefit to using glonass?
> For timing is not GPS good enough?
>
>
> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
> *Sent:* Sunday, December 31, 2023 10:10 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ken Hohof
>
> Well hopefully most everything can be remotely handled.
>
> I'm really really hoping that the fix my current GPS vendor provided
> actually survives the rollover.  Otherwise this is going to be a much
> bigger mess.
>
> I really wish multi GNSS simulators weren't so expensive.   Like costs
> more than we make on syncboxes for a couple/few years expensive.   They're
> also not available to lease for any reasonable price.  As a result I get to
> trust that my vendor did exactly the right thing here.
>
> I'm hanging around the phone for the inevitable panicked call from the
> customer who ignored (or didn't get) all of the messages we sent out.
>
> On Sun, Dec 31, 2023, 9:07 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> Hi all.  Happy New Year.  I have to do GLONASS fixups at 3pm today, the
>> forecast is freezing rain.  Yay!
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
>> Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2023 12:08 AM
>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>> Cc: Chuck McCown 
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Ken Hohof
>>
>> Everbuddy say welcome back Ken!!!
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
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>>
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Ken Hohof

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Well hopefully most everything can be remotely handled.

I'm really really hoping that the fix my current GPS vendor provided
actually survives the rollover.  Otherwise this is going to be a much
bigger mess.

I really wish multi GNSS simulators weren't so expensive.   Like costs more
than we make on syncboxes for a couple/few years expensive.   They're also
not available to lease for any reasonable price.  As a result I get to
trust that my vendor did exactly the right thing here.

I'm hanging around the phone for the inevitable panicked call from the
customer who ignored (or didn't get) all of the messages we sent out.

On Sun, Dec 31, 2023, 9:07 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Hi all.  Happy New Year.  I have to do GLONASS fixups at 3pm today, the
> forecast is freezing rain.  Yay!
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
> Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2023 12:08 AM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Cc: Chuck McCown 
> Subject: [AFMUG] Ken Hohof
>
> Everbuddy say welcome back Ken!!!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] WDM transceivers

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

I would be far more shocked if this doesn't work.

Obviously you'd need a dwdm mux to get more than one dwdm channel in a cwdm
channel, but as long as you're using dwdm optics which are in the bandpass
of the cwdm channel it should work for a single channel.

On Thu, Dec 21, 2023, 9:00 AM  wrote:

> Well if that works then a single transceiver ought to work too I should
> think.
>
> I can just wait for the right part, so it may be a moot point when all is
> said and done, but I was curious about it.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *castarritt
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 21, 2023 10:34 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] WDM transceivers
>
>
>
> I haven't heard of anyone doing it like that, but I think it should work.
> What I have heard of is connecting a dwdm mux to one of the channels of a
> cwdm mux and running multiple channels of dwdm over a single cwdm channel,
> but I haven't tried that myself.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 21, 2023 at 9:31 AM  wrote:
>
> Well you’d buy them because there are up to 96 DWDM channels, and only up
> to 18 CWDM channels.  You’d still be limited to the number of ports on the
> MUX.
>
>
>
> The situation is the CWDM MUX is already there, and our vendor momentarily
> has a shorter lead time on DWDM.  The upper CWDM channels happen to overlap
> with DWDM.  If I took a DWDM transceiver at 1570.01nm and plugged it into
> the CWDM MUX on the 1570nm port there’s no reason that shouldn’t work
> right?
>
>
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 21, 2023 9:27 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] WDM transceivers
>
>
>
> My guess would be no...otherwise no one would buy DWDM multiplexers...
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 20, 2023 at 5:38 PM  wrote:
>
> Dumb question of the week:
>
> Could I run a pair of DWDM transceivers through a CWDM multiplexer and
> expect it to work?  I’d only be using a small slice of the channel, but if
> the DWDM wavelength is encompassed by the larger CWDM wavelength then that
> light should still reach the intended destination, right?
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] RedHawk-P250i-Solid-Oxide-Fuel-Cells-GEN4-WEB.pdf

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Ignoring any cost considerations, I could see this as a backup for lower
power grid connected sites with a modest amount of battery.

Or possibly for solar sites that once in a great while need supplemental
power.  Like in a no sun for 2 weeks situation, which would happen once per
year or something like that.

In either case,  once you started it,  you wouldnt want to shut it off very
quickly.   For example, if you fired up the 10 cycle 10,000 hours one at a
solar site you would likely just let it run for the next 30 days which is
just under 1000 hours.

If these are very expensive, then those applications may not make sense
unless they are life critical.  I guess it all boils down to cost.   If
it's a $1k solution it looks a lot better than a $10k solution.

On Tue, Dec 12, 2023, 10:05 AM Trey Scarborough  wrote:

> One of the models does 250, it also states and/or I wonder which it is
> and or or.
>
> my question more so is what are you going to do with only 250w. Thats
> really not much to power anything and charge batteries. 1/4lb an hr for
> 250 watts. I really don't do well with measuring propane, but I would
> think a standard generator is probably more efficient.
>
>
> On 12/11/23 11:54 PM, fiber...@mail.com wrote:
> > What are you supposed to do with this when it only lasts 10 start/stop
> cycles? Even 300 cycles isn't that much.
> >
> >
> > - Jared
> >
> >> Sent: Monday, December 11, 2023 at 5:17 PM
> >> From: "Chuck McCown via AF" 
> >> To: af@af.afmug.com
> >> Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
> >> Subject: [AFMUG] RedHawk-P250i-Solid-Oxide-Fuel-Cells-GEN4-WEB.pdf
> >>
> >> --
> >> AF mailing list
> >> AF@af.afmug.com
> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT FB videos and reels

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Probably to reduce automated copyright claims.

I notice that a lot of the videos are using non-licensed material and
modifying in some way.   Left to right flip,  zooming, stretching, adding
borders, etc.

Plus, I've also noticed that a lot of selfie camera video is left mirrored
like it is often shown on the live display on the phone.

On Sat, Dec 9, 2023, 11:55 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Anyone else notice that most of the video content there are flipped left
> to right.  Bolts are tightened by turning to the left.  Americans drive on
> the left side of the street etc.  Most text is mirrored.  I wonder why they
> do that.
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Re: [AFMUG] GLONASS rollover coming end of year.

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Yeah,  both of us switched to different firmware about then, so that date
seems to correspond with the new firmware.

Of course, the new firmware hasn't been through an actual rollover yet,  so
we're relying on the vendor's code and their testing at this point.


On Sat, Dec 9, 2023, 7:15 AM Nate Burke  wrote:

> Thanks for reminding us of this Forrest, I remember scrambling on New
> Years Eve trying to figure out what was happening.
>
> I'm presuming that Cambium has fixed this in all Post 2020 firmware on
> radios that have integrated GPS, or UGPS units?  My UGPS Units have FW
> dated 6-12-2020, so I'm presuming that it would have the GLONASS Fix.
> On 12/9/2023 4:26 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>
> Just a heads-up:
>
> Four years ago, we had a bit of an issue where the date in the GLONASS
> GNSS system rolled over at midnight, New Year's Eve/Day, Moscow time, and
> all (most) of the multi-constellation PacketFlux and Cambium sync receivers
> went wacky.   They all needed a reboot/power cycle and returned to life.
>
> It's time for the GLONASS to roll over again, so I expect a repeat for all
> of the receivers that crashed last time.   Hopefully, the firmware that our
> GNSS module vendor claims has had the issue fixed has actually had the
> issue fixed, so newer receivers (post-mid-2020) will be ok.
>
> I've put a website up at packetflux.info/glonassrollover for a bit with
> probably way too much information, and I finally got emails sent to every
> email address that had bought a multi-GNSS SyncBox or was on our products
> update mailing list.
>
> This is a bit of outreach on this mailing list - I will likely do a couple
> of Facebook posts in the next day or so as well.
>
> --
> - Forrest
>
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[AFMUG] GLONASS rollover coming end of year.

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Just a heads-up:

Four years ago, we had a bit of an issue where the date in the GLONASS GNSS
system rolled over at midnight, New Year's Eve/Day, Moscow time, and all
(most) of the multi-constellation PacketFlux and Cambium sync receivers
went wacky.   They all needed a reboot/power cycle and returned to life.

It's time for the GLONASS to roll over again, so I expect a repeat for all
of the receivers that crashed last time.   Hopefully, the firmware that our
GNSS module vendor claims has had the issue fixed has actually had the
issue fixed, so newer receivers (post-mid-2020) will be ok.

I've put a website up at packetflux.info/glonassrollover for a bit with
probably way too much information, and I finally got emails sent to every
email address that had bought a multi-GNSS SyncBox or was on our products
update mailing list.

This is a bit of outreach on this mailing list - I will likely do a couple
of Facebook posts in the next day or so as well.

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Re: [AFMUG] Modbus

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Yes, and no.

The modbus protocol defines how to move data between two devices.  However,
the contents of the data being passed is vendor-defined and there aren't
any industry standards I'm aware of (although it wouldn't surprise me if
there were).

Every vendor that produces a modbus-capable device usually publishes some
sort of guide to the modbus registers for each device.   For instance, a
quick google search turned up this document:

https://www.vertiv.com/4ac5f2/globalassets/products/monitoring-control-and-management/monitoring/modbus-protocol-for-bdsu-reference-guide.pdf

"modbus register map" or "modbus communication guide" or simply "modbus"
when added to your vendor or product name often will turn up the right
document.

Just FYI, A couple of years ago, I would have suggested you provide me with
the vendor of the equipment, and I'd make you a firmware load for the
sitemonitor serial module to be able to read this, but that codebase needs
to be re-written to support the base 3.   At some point in the future I'm
going to resume doing those requests in which case you'd end up with a
module which pulls data from this device.   Doesn't help you right now
though.





On Thu, Oct 26, 2023 at 10:25 AM  wrote:

> Is it likely that AC meters for monitoring circuits or subpanels have a
> standard message format?
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
> Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2023 10:52 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Modbus
>
> Modbus is an ancient serial protocol to pass values back and forth.   It’s
> very open but also somewhat vendor specific.   You can send any message you
> like from A <->B but the two devices have to know what the specific message
> means.   Various industries have defined the message content but I would be
> somewhat surprised if a Vertiv rectifier knows what to do with the
> information from a meter.
>
> Tons of information online, and it’s not a hard protocol to code for.
>  Used to do it in BASIC years ago. There are two protocols - MODBUS and
> MODBUS RTU.   The RTU protocol is much more difficult to work with due to
> timing requirements, MODBUS itself is just standard serial at a baud rate
> and timing of responses is not critical at all.
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 26, 2023, at 7:38 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
> >
> > I've never used modbus.  I'm looking at AC usage meters that support
> modbus over RS-485.   And the controller on my Vertiv rectifier says this
> in the manual:
> >
> > "e) Modbus Protocol:  The NCU can communicate with an AC Meter using the
> Modbus protocol."
> >
> > and that's literally all it says.  Is this something standardized
> where I can expect any modbus capable AC meter to work the same?  Is this
> plug and play or would I have to learn yet another discipline?
> >
> > If it's not an easy answer I can take it to Vertiv tech support.  Just
> wondering if this group magically has the answer.
> >
> > --
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>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] AC voltage alarm thresholds

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

265V is a common top voltage threshold, but you'll need to look at the
equipment specs.

The US grid is specified to produce 120/240V +-5%.  So 240 could be up to
254V and still be in spec. (240V+12V)

Equipment is supposed to accept at least +-10%, so up to 264V.  (240V+24V).

Personally I'd set the threshold at at least 255V.

On Tue, Sep 5, 2023, 4:09 AM  wrote:

> Do any of you smart guys know how far out of whack does AC voltage have to
> be to cause trouble?
>
>
>
> We have an NMS monitoring rectifier input voltage and it’s current alarm
> threshold is 250V.  Occasionally that goes off and everyone ignores it.
> I’d like to set an alarm threshold where we should actually be alarmed
> about it.
>
>
>
> The Vertiv rectifier spec sheets claim we get full efficiency up to
> 300VAC, and the alarm threshold in their default config is 326V.   So I’m
> not so concerned about those.  There’s probably other stuff on fire before
> the rectifier gives a hoot, but the other stuff might matter.  We usually
> have an air conditioner separate from the rectifier, and occasionally in
> places there’s a UPS with something on it that can’t run on DC.
>
>
>
> -Adam
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Question for Chuck, and anyone wise who wants to add their 0.02...

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

CAT6 protection is almost always going to be a gas discharge tube protector
on each pair.   They sell the "tubes" such that each will protect one
pair.   So 4 components plus a circuit board with a ton of engineering to
be able to hopefully not break CAT6 specs when doing it.

On Fri, Aug 18, 2023, 7:10 AM  wrote:

> That makes me wonder if the other guys’ “10gig” surge suppressor is going
> to break what I plug into it.
>
> I’ll tell you, compared to any other ethernet surge suppressor the 10gig
> model they sell has almost nothing in it.  If it works, it’s got to be the
> most minimal protection imaginable.
>
> This is probably another point in favor of separate power+fiber for
> outdoor equipment.
>
>
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* ch...@go-mtc.com 
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 17, 2023 11:14 PM
> *To:* dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' <
> af@af.afmug.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Question for Chuck, and anyone wise who wants to
> add their 0.02...
>
>
>
> I have not.  It is nearly impossible for a surge suppressor to pass full
> CAT6 standards.  The jacks are not even able to pass with no components.
>
>
>
> *From:* dmmoff...@gmail.com
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 17, 2023 8:27 PM
>
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>
> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
>
> *Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] Question for Chuck, and anyone wise who wants to
> add their 0.02...
>
>
>
> Have you played with multi-gig ethernet?
>
> A certain “brand T” has a model of 10gig surge suppressor and it has very
> few components compared to their prior models.  I was wondering if 10G is
> too sensitive to put more components in the line.
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 17, 2023 9:21 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Question for Chuck, and anyone wise who wants to
> add their 0.02...
>
>
>
> All CAT6 in our product line are 100% GDT.  Anything that says GIGE has
> solid state and GDT.  I would recommend CAT6 for everything.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 17, 2023 6:22 PM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Question for Chuck, and anyone wise who wants to add
> their 0.02...
>
>
>
> Which of the MTC CAT6 surge suppressors that fit in the APC racks are
> recommended for general use?
>
>
>
> I see a Gas discharge and semiconductor diode version on the website.
> Guessing the GDT version is more robust and less likely to cause errors at
> the expense of reaction time.
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] Question for Chuck, and anyone wise who wants to add their 0.02...

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Yep,  usually crosstalk.

The problem is that they've started to spec inter-pair crosstalk.   That's
why cat6 has the interior plastic spacer.  Which gets cut out, the 3&6 pair
gets split and the twists in the twisted pair are eliminated through the
connector.

No modern high speed design engineer would use this connector for 10G if
they had a choice.

On Fri, Aug 18, 2023, 8:29 AM  wrote:

> Yes, the splitting of 3&6 causes acres of trouble.  But what does a good
> PCB do if the jack causes the test to fail.  I don’t recall which test it
> is, but most jacks fail it.  Might be a crosstalk.
>
> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 17, 2023 11:43 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Question for Chuck, and anyone wise who wants to
> add their 0.02...
>
> Ahh, I quickly glanced online and somehow misread the gige as cat6.
> Which is why I was confused.
>
> I've been neck deep in the 10 gig E spec for midspan injection off and on
> for the last couple of months.   Not a fun read or design.   Considering
> going to 6 or 8 layers  so I can meet some of the specifications. (Three
> ground planes with each pair being ran as a buried stripline).   And don't
> even get me started about how I feel the 568A/B pair arrangement has
> outlived its usefulness.   I'd like to see us move to an arrangement where
> the pairs actually pass through the jack as pairs.
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 17, 2023, 7:23 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
>> All CAT6 in our product line are 100% GDT.  Anything that says GIGE has
>> solid state and GDT.  I would recommend CAT6 for everything.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 17, 2023 6:22 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Question for Chuck, and anyone wise who wants to add
>> their 0.02...
>>
>> Which of the MTC CAT6 surge suppressors that fit in the APC racks are
>> recommended for general use?
>>
>> I see a Gas discharge and semiconductor diode version on the website.
>> Guessing the GDT version is more robust and less likely to cause errors at
>> the expense of reaction time.
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Question for Chuck, and anyone wise who wants to add their 0.02...

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Ahh, I quickly glanced online and somehow misread the gige as cat6.   Which
is why I was confused.

I've been neck deep in the 10 gig E spec for midspan injection off and on
for the last couple of months.   Not a fun read or design.   Considering
going to 6 or 8 layers  so I can meet some of the specifications. (Three
ground planes with each pair being ran as a buried stripline).   And don't
even get me started about how I feel the 568A/B pair arrangement has
outlived its usefulness.   I'd like to see us move to an arrangement where
the pairs actually pass through the jack as pairs.


On Thu, Aug 17, 2023, 7:23 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> All CAT6 in our product line are 100% GDT.  Anything that says GIGE has
> solid state and GDT.  I would recommend CAT6 for everything.
>
>
>
> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 17, 2023 6:22 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Question for Chuck, and anyone wise who wants to add
> their 0.02...
>
> Which of the MTC CAT6 surge suppressors that fit in the APC racks are
> recommended for general use?
>
> I see a Gas discharge and semiconductor diode version on the website.
> Guessing the GDT version is more robust and less likely to cause errors at
> the expense of reaction time.
>
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[AFMUG] Question for Chuck, and anyone wise who wants to add their 0.02...

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Which of the MTC CAT6 surge suppressors that fit in the APC racks are
recommended for general use?

I see a Gas discharge and semiconductor diode version on the website.
Guessing the GDT version is more robust and less likely to cause errors at
the expense of reaction time.
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Re: [AFMUG] Forrest's Time Post

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Two methods I didn't mention that this group might already be familiar with:

1) They still distribute time via telephone.   Call 303-499-7111 to hear
the WWV (colorado) broadcast or 808-335-4363 for WWVH (hawaii)

2) You can dial in with your dialup modem and get time codes.  300 baud up
to 9600 baud.

Beyond that they have a range of services, some of which are not on the
website to distribute time and frequency to various other entities which
need a NIST-traceable and/or highly accurate time system.

Not sure how much detail you really want, but there are three main
additional methods I'm aware of:

1) Two-way-satellite time and frequency transfer.   Essentially they buy
time on a commercial satellite to be able to do full duplex two way
satellite communication.   Because of the symmetric nature of the
simultaneous two-way path they are able to cancel out any satellite delay.
 Lots more information at
https://www.nist.gov/pml/time-and-frequency-division/time-distribution/two-way-satellite-time-and-frequency-transfer

2) Common view GPS.   Essentially you measure the time you receive a
certain part of the signal from a single GPS satellite at two different
locations, and compare it to the time produced by the atomic clocks at that
location.   If the path to the GPS satellite is the same length at both
sites because you picked a time that the GPS satellite was in that
position, you can be pretty certain that any difference in time of arrival
you measure between the sites is an inaccuracy of the atomic clocks at each
site.  This method doesn't depend on the accuracy of the GPS clocks on the
satellites as you're just comparing time of arrival of the signal and not
decoding GPS time.   Of course, the devil is in the details here as there
is often propagation delay differences, and you need very precise satellite
orbital data to make this work.   Oh, high accuracy GPS satellite orbit
data is also available from NIST. See
https://www.nist.gov/pml/time-and-frequency-division/time-services/common-view-gnss-time-transfer
.   Apparently they're also experimenting with comparing the phase of
received GPS signals as well to get even more accuracy.

3) They also do experimental fiber-based time and frequency transfer.
 Doesn't take much imagination about how this works, other than to say that
apparently you have to take into account the fact that light propogates
down different fibers at different speeds (even in the same bundle).

4) If you need nist-traceable time at your site they also sell a service
where they drop a rack of equipment in your site and manage it.   You get a
highly-accurate frequency and time standard that is NIST traceable with all
of the reports to prove it, from NIST.   Think all of the atomic clocks you
need, along with NIST scientists handling the time transfer to that rack.
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Re: [AFMUG] Are you reliant on searching?

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

I've been tapping on the windows button and typing what I've been looking
for for years.   Don't even know where lots of things are in the start menu
anymore.

Under windows 10, I did have most of my often used programs pinned to the
start menu, so for those I'd click on start and them the program.

In windows 11, I've started using flow launcher which is a highly
customizable windows search and launcher replacement.  Hit the hotkey for
it,  type what you want,  and select.   It also has various plug-ins to be
able to manipulate media players,  so simple math and so on.   For the
reason below,  this is primarily how I'm launching windows apps today as
well.

I'm still searching for a couple click application launcher which works for
me.  I'd like to do something like windows 10 did, but unfortunately some
of the design choices made in windows 11 prevents the start menu from being
useful for this as well.

On Mon, Jul 31, 2023, 2:49 PM Nate Burke  wrote:

> We've got a new employee in his 20's.  He never browses for programs off
> his start menu, but uses the windows search box for everything.
>
> Anything that has a search box, he types into that.  I didn't even know
> that the Grandstream UCM's had a search function, but he only uses that
> to find settings to change.  Is this normal behavior now? Is it actually
> faster?
>
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Re: [AFMUG] “Low pass” attenuator

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Dwdm or cwdm where one hasn't taken care to balance the relative strengths
of the light entering the wdm system.

I believe some amplifiers have the effect of "smoothing out" the relative
brightness of each carrier.  But don't quote me on this as I'm just going
by marketing materials likely written by a marketing department somewhere.

On Tue, Jul 11, 2023, 9:55 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Curious, where would you have two signals of different amplitude in a
> fiber system?  PON return signals?
>
>
> *From:* Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 11, 2023 5:07 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] “Low pass” attenuator
>
> Is there such a thing as a fiber attenuator that only attenuates a signal
> higher than some threshold?
>
> I’m thinking to prevent overloading a receiver, but let weaker signals
> pass unimpeded.
>
> Get Outlook for iOS 
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik max power really 57V?

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Oh I missed that.   Yep,  shorter the distance less the drop no matter what
the gauge..  assuming tiny power needs of course.

On Mon, Jul 10, 2023, 4:11 PM  wrote:

> But he said “a couple of feet”...
>
> Best Regards,
> Chuck McCown
>
> McCown Technology Corporation
> 8401 N Commerce Dr
> Lake Point, Utah 84074
> 801-250-9503 Office
> 435-830-4306 Cell
> www.mccowntech.com
> www.microtrench.pro
> www.terabitnetworks.com
>
> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
> *Sent:* Monday, July 10, 2023 4:06 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Cc:* Josh Luthman ; Chuck McCown
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik max power really 57V?
>
> If it's 23awg cat6, with two wires on each polarity at 100m you'll see
> some drop though.
>
> On Mon, Jul 10, 2023, 2:45 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
>> Say the router takes 250 mA
>> Say you are using 16 ga wire
>> Say you are using 2 feet of 16 ga wire. (couple feet)
>> .008 * .25 = 2 mV
>>
>> Yes, put in 60 volts in  and get 59.998 volts at the Tik.
>>
>> Not a very effective way to drop some voltage...
>>
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Monday, July 10, 2023 12:28 PM
>> *To:* ch...@go-mtc.com
>> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik max power really 57V?
>>
>> If you put 60v on one end and run even a couple of feet off you're not
>> getting 60v into the Tik is my point.
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 10, 2023 at 1:31 PM  wrote:
>>
>>> Talking adding resistance via a length of wire.  My point is it takes a
>>> long piece of copper wire to get any appreciable resistance.
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>>> *Sent:* Monday, July 10, 2023 7:08 AM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik max power really 57V?
>>>
>>> 10 or 16 gauge for a Mikrotik?  I guess you want that wire to stay ice
>>> cold.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 7, 2023 at 5:48 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> That would be a lot of wire.
>>>> 1000’ of #10 wire has 1 ohm of resistance.
>>>> 1000 ‘ of #16 has 4 ohms.
>>>>
>>>> How much current are we talking?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>>>> *Sent:* Friday, July 7, 2023 10:05 AM
>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik max power really 57V?
>>>>
>>>> Or some built in resistance - like a length of copper wire :)
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jul 6, 2023 at 10:28 PM castarritt 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'm not an EE, but wouldn't something like a 1w 10ohm resistor in
>>>>> series with the fiberbox solve this?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Jul 6, 2023 at 7:07 PM Carl Peterson <
>>>>> cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I've got a design that uses a Mikrotik Fiberbox Plus as pretty much
>>>>>> an SFP+ holder for a TiBit XGS Gpon module.  Mikrotik says Max power is
>>>>>> 57V.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have a power design using a DRS240 that has max power of 57.6V  on
>>>>>> vBoost.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any thoughts on the real magix smoke release point on a Mikrotik?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [image: Screen Shot 2023-07-06 at 5.28.34 PM.png]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Carl Peterson
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *PORT NETWORKS*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Baltimore, MD 21202
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (410) 637-3707
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT receiver

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

WWV is still available on 2.5, 5, 10, 15 and 20Mhz according to NIST.
Apparently they're also experimenting with 25Mhz.

I have a couple of SDRs - a hackrf one,  and also a cheap sdr based one.

My latest rf toy (tool?) is a signalhound bb60c real-time spectrum analyzer
and various calibrated antennas, amps, comb generator, and the like.  Going
to use it for compliance or precompliance purposes but been having fun
exploring the spectrum with it in the meantime.

I'm hoping that one of the tax sale properties my brother bought in the
middle of nowhere in northwest Utah is quiet enough that i can throw
together an OATS and maybe do my own compliance work instead of getting a
lab to do it which is always a frustrating and sometimes expensive
experience.

On Thu, Jul 6, 2023, 11:06 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Purchased a RSPduo SDRplay receiver.
>
> Tossed a length of cat6 out the window.
> Having fun listening to RF from DC to 2G
> Makes a pretty nice FM broadcast radio for my desktop.
>
> I bought it for listening to field day but missed installing it by a few
> days.
>
> Surprised at how little 2 meter traffic there is anymore.
>
>
> I have lots of noise in my office so I need to build a proper longwire.
> Having showing my youngest son (29 I think)  actual side bands, and
> digital carriers on the FM and AM broadcast signals etc.
> Showed him the WWV signals.  I guess 10 MHz is no longer.
> Shortwave signals, CW.  Not much CW.
>
> Does ARRL still broadcast CW practice sessions?
>
> It has waterfall, spectrum analyzer.  You can change bandwidth by just
> dragging the bandwidth display sideways.
>
> I am just barely scratching the surface as to all the things it can do.
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Re: [AFMUG] battery overcharging

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

The discharge resistance decreases.

The charge resistance increases.

On Wed, Jun 7, 2023, 3:14 PM  wrote:

> I get what you’re saying.   Sounds like the worst outcome I can get is
> warm batteries.
>
>
>
> Where I’m confused is I’m reading that resistance decreases as state of
> charge rises (and also decreases from heat).  If resistance is dropping,
> and we’re at a constant voltage, why is the current also dropping?  I’ve
> certainly seen a car battery charger do that, so it’s not that I’m
> disbelieving it, but what’s the mechanism causing it?
>
>
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 07, 2023 2:03 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] battery overcharging
>
>
>
> Another metaphor would be inflating a tire to 32 lbs with the compressor
> pressure set to 32 lbs.  Once the tire is full the air will stop flowing.
>
>
>
> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 7, 2023 11:58 AM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] battery overcharging
>
>
>
> Ignoring the overvoltage for a minute..
>
>
>
> A normal battery,  when charged at a normal voltage, will take less and
> less current until full.   It doesn't matter how much current is available,
> it will only take what it needs.   Generally you want to limit the current
> based on the size of the array,  but that's for the start of charge, but
> the end of it.   That is,  an empty battery array will take all the current
> you can give it,  and too much can cause damage to the battery and maybe
> wiring.
>
>
>
> As far as the overvoltage goes, that's far more dangerous as overvoltages
> tend to cause "boiling" of the battery which is just another way to say
> that the battery is producing lots of hydrogen and oxygen which can cause
> explosive atmospheres around the battery, or in an extreme case can cause
> sulphuric acid steam to escape the battery.Combine this with no
> overcurrent or time limit and at the bare minimum you should expect swollen
> and destroyed batteries.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 7, 2023, 1:05 PM  wrote:
>
> So I was looking at a rectifier config and trying to imagine the worst
> possible thing I could do.
>
>
>
> With some creativity I could start an equalizing charge that will run for
> 48 hours at 58.5 Volts.  Normally it would stop when charge current hits a
> configurable fraction of the C10 Ah rating of the battery, but by
> intentionally misconfiguring the size of the battery and that fraction of
> Ah I could ensure that the equalizing charge runs until the maximum time
> limit…..which I can set as high as 48 hours.
>
>
>
> I could also disable the battery current limit, disable the over temp
> shutoff, and disable the temperature compensation.
>
>
>
> If I’ve disabled the current limiting feature in the rectifier, what
> determines the current that will go into the battery when I’m on a constant
> voltage charge?  The charger can do up to 100A, but would it put 100A into
> the battery for the full 48 hours, or would some other factor limit it?
>
>
>
> The spec sheet for the batteries lists an internal resistance of 3 
> *milli*ohms.
> V=IR tells me they could take thousands of amps at 58.5V.  Is there any
> other limit here besides resistance.  If nothing else stops this machine
> from dumping it’s full 100A into the batteries for 48 hours I’m pretty sure
> I could start a fire or explosion with this rectifier if I wanted to. I’m
> not trying to commit an act of sabotage by the way, I’m just wondering if a
> creative idiot could do something terrible.
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] battery overcharging

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Ignoring the overvoltage for a minute..

A normal battery,  when charged at a normal voltage, will take less and
less current until full.   It doesn't matter how much current is available,
it will only take what it needs.   Generally you want to limit the current
based on the size of the array,  but that's for the start of charge, but
the end of it.   That is,  an empty battery array will take all the current
you can give it,  and too much can cause damage to the battery and maybe
wiring.

As far as the overvoltage goes, that's far more dangerous as overvoltages
tend to cause "boiling" of the battery which is just another way to say
that the battery is producing lots of hydrogen and oxygen which can cause
explosive atmospheres around the battery, or in an extreme case can cause
sulphuric acid steam to escape the battery.Combine this with no
overcurrent or time limit and at the bare minimum you should expect swollen
and destroyed batteries.

On Wed, Jun 7, 2023, 1:05 PM  wrote:

> So I was looking at a rectifier config and trying to imagine the worst
> possible thing I could do.
>
>
>
> With some creativity I could start an equalizing charge that will run for
> 48 hours at 58.5 Volts.  Normally it would stop when charge current hits a
> configurable fraction of the C10 Ah rating of the battery, but by
> intentionally misconfiguring the size of the battery and that fraction of
> Ah I could ensure that the equalizing charge runs until the maximum time
> limit…..which I can set as high as 48 hours.
>
>
>
> I could also disable the battery current limit, disable the over temp
> shutoff, and disable the temperature compensation.
>
>
>
> If I’ve disabled the current limiting feature in the rectifier, what
> determines the current that will go into the battery when I’m on a constant
> voltage charge?  The charger can do up to 100A, but would it put 100A into
> the battery for the full 48 hours, or would some other factor limit it?
>
>
>
> The spec sheet for the batteries lists an internal resistance of 3 
> *milli*ohms.
> V=IR tells me they could take thousands of amps at 58.5V.  Is there any
> other limit here besides resistance.  If nothing else stops this machine
> from dumping it’s full 100A into the batteries for 48 hours I’m pretty sure
> I could start a fire or explosion with this rectifier if I wanted to. I’m
> not trying to commit an act of sabotage by the way, I’m just wondering if a
> creative idiot could do something terrible.
>
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT tracert

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

See
https://pagespeed.web.dev/analysis/http-www-microtrench-blades-com/7zj3glpe5h?form_factor=mobile
for
some insights.

Seems like there are some very large images which can be better
compressed.   And a few other things.

On Wed, May 31, 2023, 10:17 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Could some of you do a tracert to www.microtrench-blades.com please
> Go Daddy is blaming the slow load on my ISP yeah.
>
> Something is making it load very slow for me and others.
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Fiber (and I guess CAT5) cable management in racks

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

100% patch panels eventually.

But yes, switches and patch panels.

What I'm asking about is generally "Front of rack patch cable management".
 Not the back, not the cables into the rack, not power cords on back of
equipment.   Simply port-to-port patch panel on the front.

On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 12:42 PM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Full of what?  Switches and patch panels?
>
> On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 2:37 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>> Ok let me clarify.  (Accidentally hit send since it's apparently the same
>> hotkey to send on gmail as I use elsewhere for "insert a return without
>> sending")
>>
>> Think 10 years of neglect and basically no front-side cable management.
>> Cables everywhere.   Not as bad as some reddit pictures, but definitely a
>> good 'before' picture.
>>
>> We're starting from scratch here.  All that exists is some side of 2 post
>> rack cable management (rings) which holds existing cat5 cables to some
>> patch panels.   It's pretty much full too
>>
>> On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 12:32 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
>> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Nope.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 12:21 PM Josh Luthman <
>>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Share a picture of what you have now?
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 2:15 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
>>>> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks to the (not) fun labor situation anymore, I've gotten sucked
>>>>> back into some more of the day to day design stuff at the WISP,
>>>>> specifically some of the server/fiber infrastructure at the head end.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's time for me to just fix the cable management in the racks, which
>>>>> apparently the previous "owners" of this particular portion of the network
>>>>> didn't feel was important, or probably more accurately, didn't know how to
>>>>> fix.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm looking for ANY options which have been proven to work, don't let
>>>>> the following dissuade suggesting a specific option.
>>>>>
>>>>> Right now, what I'm thinking is to add a "0RU" fiber/cable management
>>>>> "tray" below each 1U switch and/or fiber patch panel, then drag that out 
>>>>> to
>>>>> a vertical riser  which is in front of the rack.   Note that this is for
>>>>> the open relay racks, not for closed server racks, not sure what to do
>>>>> there.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> - Forrest
>>>>> --
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>>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> - Forrest
>>>
>>
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Fiber (and I guess CAT5) cable management in racks

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

I guess I should clarify even a bit more.

This panel is where the core 6509 has been, now we're migrating to a pair
of juniper MX204's and a fair number of fanout switches.   It's also where
all of the fiber has been terminated.

My thought is to provide horizontal cable management from switches and
fiber panels to a vertical runner in this rack.

Note that really what I'm asking is "if you were going to start over on
your core rack, and you were terminating fiber and fanout switches what
would you use", as our intent is basically to blow this away and start over.

On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 12:36 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> Ok let me clarify.  (Accidentally hit send since it's apparently the same
> hotkey to send on gmail as I use elsewhere for "insert a return without
> sending")
>
> Think 10 years of neglect and basically no front-side cable management.
> Cables everywhere.   Not as bad as some reddit pictures, but definitely a
> good 'before' picture.
>
> We're starting from scratch here.  All that exists is some side of 2 post
> rack cable management (rings) which holds existing cat5 cables to some
> patch panels.   It's pretty much full too....
>
> On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 12:32 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>> Nope.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 12:21 PM Josh Luthman <
>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Share a picture of what you have now?
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 2:15 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
>>> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks to the (not) fun labor situation anymore, I've gotten sucked
>>>> back into some more of the day to day design stuff at the WISP,
>>>> specifically some of the server/fiber infrastructure at the head end.
>>>>
>>>> It's time for me to just fix the cable management in the racks, which
>>>> apparently the previous "owners" of this particular portion of the network
>>>> didn't feel was important, or probably more accurately, didn't know how to
>>>> fix.
>>>>
>>>> I'm looking for ANY options which have been proven to work, don't let
>>>> the following dissuade suggesting a specific option.
>>>>
>>>> Right now, what I'm thinking is to add a "0RU" fiber/cable management
>>>> "tray" below each 1U switch and/or fiber patch panel, then drag that out to
>>>> a vertical riser  which is in front of the rack.   Note that this is for
>>>> the open relay racks, not for closed server racks, not sure what to do
>>>> there.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> - Forrest
>>>> --
>>>> AF mailing list
>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> - Forrest
>>
>
>
> --
> - Forrest
>


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Re: [AFMUG] Fiber (and I guess CAT5) cable management in racks

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Ok let me clarify.  (Accidentally hit send since it's apparently the same
hotkey to send on gmail as I use elsewhere for "insert a return without
sending")

Think 10 years of neglect and basically no front-side cable management.
Cables everywhere.   Not as bad as some reddit pictures, but definitely a
good 'before' picture.

We're starting from scratch here.  All that exists is some side of 2 post
rack cable management (rings) which holds existing cat5 cables to some
patch panels.   It's pretty much full too

On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 12:32 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> Nope.
>
>
> On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 12:21 PM Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
>> Share a picture of what you have now?
>>
>> On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 2:15 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
>> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks to the (not) fun labor situation anymore, I've gotten sucked back
>>> into some more of the day to day design stuff at the WISP, specifically
>>> some of the server/fiber infrastructure at the head end.
>>>
>>> It's time for me to just fix the cable management in the racks, which
>>> apparently the previous "owners" of this particular portion of the network
>>> didn't feel was important, or probably more accurately, didn't know how to
>>> fix.
>>>
>>> I'm looking for ANY options which have been proven to work, don't let
>>> the following dissuade suggesting a specific option.
>>>
>>> Right now, what I'm thinking is to add a "0RU" fiber/cable management
>>> "tray" below each 1U switch and/or fiber patch panel, then drag that out to
>>> a vertical riser  which is in front of the rack.   Note that this is for
>>> the open relay racks, not for closed server racks, not sure what to do
>>> there.
>>>
>>> --
>>> - Forrest
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
> - Forrest
>


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Re: [AFMUG] Fiber (and I guess CAT5) cable management in racks

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Nope.


On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 12:21 PM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Share a picture of what you have now?
>
> On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 2:15 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks to the (not) fun labor situation anymore, I've gotten sucked back
>> into some more of the day to day design stuff at the WISP, specifically
>> some of the server/fiber infrastructure at the head end.
>>
>> It's time for me to just fix the cable management in the racks, which
>> apparently the previous "owners" of this particular portion of the network
>> didn't feel was important, or probably more accurately, didn't know how to
>> fix.
>>
>> I'm looking for ANY options which have been proven to work, don't let the
>> following dissuade suggesting a specific option.
>>
>> Right now, what I'm thinking is to add a "0RU" fiber/cable management
>> "tray" below each 1U switch and/or fiber patch panel, then drag that out to
>> a vertical riser  which is in front of the rack.   Note that this is for
>> the open relay racks, not for closed server racks, not sure what to do
>> there.
>>
>> --
>> - Forrest
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
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[AFMUG] Fiber (and I guess CAT5) cable management in racks

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Thanks to the (not) fun labor situation anymore, I've gotten sucked back
into some more of the day to day design stuff at the WISP, specifically
some of the server/fiber infrastructure at the head end.

It's time for me to just fix the cable management in the racks, which
apparently the previous "owners" of this particular portion of the network
didn't feel was important, or probably more accurately, didn't know how to
fix.

I'm looking for ANY options which have been proven to work, don't let the
following dissuade suggesting a specific option.

Right now, what I'm thinking is to add a "0RU" fiber/cable management
"tray" below each 1U switch and/or fiber patch panel, then drag that out to
a vertical riser  which is in front of the rack.   Note that this is for
the open relay racks, not for closed server racks, not sure what to do
there.

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Re: [AFMUG] Headphones and earbuds

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

If you can't hear ambient noise it's an issue.

Safety violation.

My take:

If it's a loud area,  then you need hearing protection.   Note that most
earbuds don't isolate that much, as such if you're even moderately close to
the osha hearing protection levels then you can exceed them by permitting
earbud use.  Hearing outside noise is not nearly as important here as
ensuring that you don't exceed dB levels.

In quieter areas, then you have the need to hear ambient noise.   Depending
on the area and whether you feel that being aware of the direction of the
noise is important, having a one earbud policy is often OK.

Or you can demand use of something like:

https://amp.earplugstore.com/saf-t-ear-bluetooth-dual-safety-earbuds.html

>From an enforcement perspective,  a no earbud at all policy is easiest.

On Fri, May 12, 2023, 1:00 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> I warned an employee wearing noise cancelling earphones that they were a
> safety hazard yesterday.  Today I noticed he had them on again, I pointed
> to his ear.  He went off on me, complaining that everyone else had
> earbuds.  I told him that many times I started talking to him and he either
> acted like he was not hearing anything or he chose to ignore me.  Yadda y
> adda, yadda.  He quit a few minutes later.  Good worker but lousy
> attitude.  43 years old and had worked about 20 different places.
>
> So I adopted an open ears policy.  If I am the asshole, that is fine.  I
> am a boomer and proud of it.
>
> Whadya y’all think?
>
>
>
> *Should Employees Be Allowed to Wear Earbuds?*
> --
>
>
>
> Currently, the Occupational Health and Safety Administration (OSHA) does
> not have guidelines on earbud use in the workplace. However, OSHA has
> issued recommendations regarding earbud use while on the job. Of course,
> wearing earbuds in some work environments poses more of a threat than in
> others.
>
> Earbud Dangers
>
> The dangers of wearing earbuds while on the job are similar to
> non-employment use of these devices. People wearing earbuds simply cannot
> hear emergency signals, but it goes beyond that. Overall, earbuds may pose
> a safety hazard because the employee is less cognizant of their
> surroundings and is not paying attention to their safety.
>
> No Earbuds Allowed
>
> OSHA urges employers to forbidTop of Form
>
>  Bottom of Form
>
> the use of earbuds when workers are operating any sort of heavy equipment.
> Anyone working on a manufacturing or construction site where heavy
> equipment is used should not have earbuds, headphones, or similar devices
> on their heads. For example, even if the forklift operator is not wearing
> earbuds, a fellow employee in the vicinity using these devices could end up
> getting hit if they cannot hear the machine. Along with earbuds, the same
> warnings hold true for smartphones.  Manufacturing machinery such as
> milling machines emit noises that indicate problem conditions or unsafe
> conditions.  Operators of machines need to be able to hear what is going
> on with the machine.
>
> Other Earbud Risks
>
> In most manufacturing industries, various energy-related hazards exist.
> These may include chemical, electrical, or fire hazards. Failure to hear a
> warning device due to earbud use not only puts that employee at risk if
> they cannot hear warnings from coworkers but may be at risk as earbuds also
> affect evacuations or the realization that equipment is not functioning
> properly. For maximum safety, no employee in a manufacturing setting should
> wear earbuds, even if they are not in an area of heavy equipment use. That
> includes those working in warehouses. Earbuds are never a substitute for
> any type of hearing protection on the job.
>
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Re: [AFMUG] On call employees

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Under the FLSA you have to pay them at least minimum wage for all on call
hours.

This is assuming your definition of on call prevents the employee from
doing whatever they want during the on-call hours.

On Tue, Apr 11, 2023, 1:32 PM Roger Tims  wrote:

> i have a question about on call. (requiring an employee to be within the
> area for covering any outages)
> How do you guys go about compensating them for having to do that every
> once in a while?
>
> Thanks
> --
> *From:* AF  on behalf of Chuck McCown via AF <
> af@af.afmug.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 11, 2023 9:47 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com 
> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT Word
>
>
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] Ticketing systems

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

If you find one which is inexpensive and works reliably let me know.

I'm using osticket which works except it sometimes doesn't flag a ticket
correctly after a customer replies to an open ticket.   So you end up with
a customer which has replied but you don't realize has replied.  Pisses me
and the customer off.

I've considered some of the SaaS systems but by the time I get the features
I want/ need,  they're prohibitively expensive.  Like $100/agent/ month for
zendesk,  although I have some needs which would typically be needed by a
larger organization such as multiple brand support.

On Sun, Apr 9, 2023, 7:46 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> What are current opinions on best ticketing systems?
>
> Seems like everything is expensive or terrible or both.
>
>
> Get Outlook for iOS 
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Re: [AFMUG] Short Term Employee

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

He was exceptional all right,  mine usually take longer to show off their
skillset.

On Sat, Apr 8, 2023, 1:49 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> I hired a guy to be a production manager over our grout mixing machine
> product.
> He came with a pedigree of doing this at other places.  I didn’t check him
> out, just trusted the resume.
>
> He did have interesting ideas but soon it became evident:
> He liked to sit and talk –alot.
> He did not want to start helping cleaning up the bill of materials
> (primary job responsibility). (did absolutely nothing along those lines)
>
> He wanted us to farm things out to his buddies (like have fastenal kit the
> nuts and bolts, have this other company make your sheet metal for you).
>
> OK, was trying to absorb ideas and suggestions.  After all he was over
> building all the production equipment at the local Purple Mattress factory
> (or so he said).
>
> I expected him to help task employees in his department, but soon when
> asked where they were and what were they doing, he had no idea.
> I gave them a task to modify a mounting fixture by cutting it and
> inserting 10” of steel tubing.  Rather than have them do what I asked, he
> took new steel and made one from scratch.
> So he wasted the steel, his time and he used too thin of material.  Took
> two hours.
>
> I told him you could make the modification in 10 minutes, he argued that
> point.
> So I took a stand, cut it, extended it, using a stopwatch.  3 minutes 43
> seconds
>
> When I complained about it, he said that my fixtures were too weak and
> they were going to kill someone.  I demoed one with about 10X load not
> failing.
> Then he started complaining about other things, deflecting that he did not
> do what I asked and did something else wasteful and substandard.
> Interspersed with my request was not clear and he didn’t understand what I
> wanted...
>
> He said my repair to a air compressor was unsafe.
> He said he got arc flash in his eye from a distance of about 60 feet, etc
> etc.  Had to buy stuff to build safe welding stalls, etc etc.
>
> So I  made a casual comment to my son (who is taking over) yesterday: “you
> know, when a guy like this leaves a company whether fired or not, they
> sometimes call OSHA just to cause problems”
> Then I actually listened to my own words and agreed with myself.
>
> Late in the day this problem employee said to me: “I guess I am going to
> have to ignore my own exceptionalism to be able work here”.
>
> That bugged me the longer I thought about it.  I fired him via email about
> an hour after he left...  Made it one full week and a couple days the prior
> week.
> He can bless someone else with his exceptionalism.
>
> AITA?
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Amazon weirdness

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

In our area, UPS at least was been hiring individuals with their own
private vehicles to deliver packages.  These individuals apparently are
fairly clueless.

In at least two cases the individuals marked business not open at almost
the same exact time that our normal driver was picking up our daily
pickup.  Our driver was less than amused when he saw these.

I think they've stopped doing this at least in my neighborhood but if
they're doing good elsewhere that could explain it.

On the other hand, FedEX can't be explained.   No matter how dry the roads
are,  if they didn't deliver a package, it's a weather delay.

On Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 3:10 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

> I usually get a tracking notice and a "out for delivery" notice.  Lately I
> have gotten the "out for delivery" notice both USPS and UPS only to watch
> on camera the damn truck just cruise on by.  We're rural on a dead-end
> road.  The only USPS or UPS vehicle on our route would be what just drove
> by.  These jokers don't even slow down.  It's close enough that they could
> stop and honk the horn and I could come out and get it.  So it's wait till
> tomorrow, if it don't show then, I file for a replacement for an
> undelivered item.
> On 3/22/23 14:43, TJ Trout wrote:
>
>
>
> I also avoid using debit or ach and only use credit that way if a breach
> occurs it's not my money tied up until it's resolved.
>
> On Wed, Mar 22, 2023, 2:41 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>
>> Why pay with a bank account when you can get a 3-5% "discount" for paying
>> with a credit card?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 22, 2023, 12:49 PM Josh Luthman 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm pretty skeptical when a bank tells me they don't see the
>>> transactions attempting the account.  It's only happened a few times but it
>>> always seems to be a second or third call with the customer to get it
>>> resolved and all we do is complain it's still not working...
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 2:51 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 We are switching over to a debit/atm card to pay since they canceled
 every order since the 18th that was direct bank account draw.  The bank
 does not even see them attempting to hit the account.

 Best Regards,
 Chuck McCown

 McCown Technology Corporation
 8401 N Commerce Dr
 Lake Point, Utah 84074
 801-250-9503 Office
 435-830-4306 Cell
 www.mccowntech.com
 www.microtrench.pro
 www.terabitnetworks.com

 *From:* James Howard
 *Sent:* Wednesday, March 22, 2023 11:13 AM
 *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Amazon weirdness


 FedEx is a joke.   When they get around to delivering (rarely when they
 say it will arrive) many of the packages are damaged.  Sam’s club ships
 everything via FedEx and they throw the boxes out the door of the truck and
 drive away.  Have had glass items smashed in multiple deliveries by FedEx.



 Lately though, it seems that everything from Amazon has been coming via
 USPS here.  In the past, we have had an many as 4 Amazon trucks deliver on
 the same day so maybe they’re reworking their system to have some
 efficiency?  I’ve seen 2 Amazon trucks following each other down rural
 roads around here many times.



 UPS has been my preferred delivery until recently.  They seem to be
 developing FedEx type of traits recently with damaged packages and things
 coming late but hopefully that’s something that won’t continue.





 *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Nate Burke
 *Sent:* Wednesday, March 22, 2023 9:31 AM
 *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Amazon weirdness



 Do you guys get delivery directly from Amazon trucks, or via
 USPS/UPS/common carrier?

 I order lots of things from Amazon and have no problems.  But almost
 everything is via Amazon delivery trucks.

 Now FedEx on the other hand.  If something requires a signature, it'll
 take an extra 2-3 days to get delivered.  Goes out on the truck, then back
 to the shop every day with no attempt at delivery until the driver must
 finally get mad enough to ring the doorbell.  Only if it needs a signature
 though, normal drop-off deliveries are fine.

 On 3/22/2023 8:38 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

 I got an email at 3AM saying they couldn't deliver anything and I
 should adjust my business hours.



 I have nothing for them to deliver.  All orders are delivered already.



 Maybe ChatGPT 2.0 is changing things not knowing what it's doing?



 On Tue, Mar 21, 2023 at 11:37 PM Jan-GAMs 
 wrote:

 The robots are on strike!

 I've had amazon orders that tracking would say "it's out for delivery"
 and I got the mail truck on the camera driving right on by, not stopping.
 The part had to be re-ordered.  This 

Re: [AFMUG] Cisco Licensing

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

And that's why we're switching to juniper.

Cisco has moved to a model where the software and hardware are licensed or
sold separately on most platforms and the software is subscription based.

Not sure what the situation is with the 3660, but some revert to very basic
functionality.

On Wed, Mar 15, 2023, 4:08 PM Nate Burke  wrote:

> I just picked up a used Cisco 3650 switch off Ebay because I needed 48
> POE ports that can do Vlans on the cheap.  When I go into the
> 'Licensing' screen through the browser, it shows Authorization Status
> 'EVAL MODE' with a 90 day countdown timer.  Will the switch stop working
> after 90 days?  I haven't used anything Cisco in a long time.  3500
> switches were the last thing I dabbled with.
>
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Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Internet email isn't anonymous,  never was.  Even in the early days.
 There has always been a multitude of ways to track email back to the
origin server.  And there has been a multitude of ways to obfuscate but not
hide that origin.

Any anonymity you may have is based on the origin server either not knowing
or not being willing to disclose that information.  Every email received
generally will be able to be tracked back to the origin server,  with the
caveat that sometimes the owner of the origin server will be unable to be
determined since any random person can spin up a server, send mail,  and
drop off the planet.

Note that spf and dmarc don't validate the user.   They only validate that
the email originated from servers known to send mail for a given domain and
provide some cryptographic assurance of that fact. It's a way for
legitimate companies to ensure that email that appears to come from them
actually comes from them and for companies like google to be able to reject
what appear to be emails with spoofed sender information.



On Sun, Mar 12, 2023, 3:17 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

> Because 45 years ago my company was connected to the rest of itself via
> the arpanet and they promised us on a stack of bibles that those who used
> the email system would always remain anonymous.  Of course, then later they
> published a 5,000 page phone book with all our emails associated with our
> work addresses for over 50,000 employees.  I printed it out and put it in a
> 3-ring binder and put it in the computer room where the other users could
> use it.  Back then we had these machines called an Alto and each user had
> this big plastic cartridge with a huge disk in it.  If I recall, this
> generated a lawsuit, because they promised us that no-one would ever know
> our email address associated with our work phone, work address, etc... .
> It wasn't true then and it still isn't true.  But that can't make it, the
> promise, unsaid.
> On 3/12/23 09:47, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> wtf, where did you get that email was designed for anonymity?
>
> This is getting to some Qanon level right here
>
> On Sun, Mar 12, 2023 at 11:40 AM Jan-GAMs  wrote:
>
>> good question Forrest.  mail.com provides several hundred domains to
>> choose from and use and easily works with thunderbird as well as most other
>> email reader applications.  Plus it's free.  All Google is doing is
>> monopolizing email.  Email was originally designed to be used by arpanet to
>> be free/open/anonymous and to still be functional even after a global war.
>> Using spf/dkim removes the anonymous.  I don't think that's right.  I also
>> think that since you have just shown me how easy it is to send fake mail,
>> it also seems it could be about as easy to add a fake spf/dkim into it with
>> a little more python scripting.  End result is now google knows exactly who
>> you are and who you're sending to and the spam filters are broken because
>> now we'll have verified spam mail.
>>
>> Who are you?  Who do you know?  What is the content?  Where is your
>> privacy?
>>
>> Problems with the ease of Telnetting spoof mail: I do not know anyone who
>> has their very own homemade mail server, plus, I do not know anyone who has
>> actually built and setup successfully a homebrew DIY email server.  I do
>> know lots of people who have tried to do so, including myself.  It's way
>> easier to buy it as a service and then it gets expensive.  Another problem
>> is most of the free email servers won't allow users to send more than 10
>> emails at a time and you have to wait up to an hour before you can send 10
>> more.  That's why I tried to build my own, just so I could send customers
>> the monthly billing automatically.  I even hired a programmer who said he
>> had done it before, he failed.
>> On 3/12/23 07:32, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>>
>> I can insert a spoofed email using only telnet to port 25 on a mail
>> server in about 30 seconds not counting the time it takes to type the
>> message itself. Basically you telnet to port 25, issue four commands (HELO,
>> MAIL FROM, RCPT TO, DATA), and then type the message itself.
>>
>> Spoofing email in an automated way only takes some basic python skills.
>>  Like I could teach anyone with a bit of computer experience how to do it
>> in about an hour or so.  This python script can run on anything that runs
>> python, which is pretty much any general purpose computing device.
>>
>> So it is ridiculously cheap and easy to spoof email.
>>
>> The reason it is so easy is that email by itself has zero authentication
>> of origin and an open, plaintext, protocol.
>>
>> The purpose of spf/dkim/dmarc is to add a 

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

I've run, successfully,  my own email server.  It isn't that hard.  Had to
in the early days.   Pain in the ass to maintain  and manage,  yes. Pain to
get running,  not so much.   It's a big enough pain to run on an ongoing
basis that I choose to pay someone else to do it nowadays.

As far as anonymous email goes. It isn't a big impact in that anyone can
register their own domain with privacy enabled or otherwise identity
hidden.

It's difficult to spoof dkim in particular because you have to sign each
email with the private key which has the Public key registered in DNS.   So
you send an email, and your email server has to sign it with the correct
key for the origin domain. That way you know the email originated from a
trusted server for the domain.   That's the real point of dkim...  ensuring
the email origin matches the header information.   It isn't about removing
privacy, it's about preventing someone from pretending to be a domain which
they aren't.

I took a bit closer look at your email bounce.

Is your wife's email @mail.com or @linuxmail.org?

If it's @mail.com, you may want to check the envelope sender settings in
the email client.

What appears to be happening here is Google is getting a message which
seems to be from @linuxmail.org but can't verify that the source IP is
correct.  However the origin IP is correct for @mail.com, so if your wife's
email is @mail.com, this might be as simple as fixing the envelope sender
in the client.   If that isn't it,  then you may want to verify your
outbound mail server setting.

If this is via a web client, then mail.com needs to fix their email
settings.   They're sending this mail into Google with @linuxmail.org
addresses which don't have any spf and dkim records,  and worse,
linuxmail.org is listed in numerous spam blackhole lists.

On Sun, Mar 12, 2023, 12:40 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

> good question Forrest.  mail.com provides several hundred domains to
> choose from and use and easily works with thunderbird as well as most other
> email reader applications.  Plus it's free.  All Google is doing is
> monopolizing email.  Email was originally designed to be used by arpanet to
> be free/open/anonymous and to still be functional even after a global war.
> Using spf/dkim removes the anonymous.  I don't think that's right.  I also
> think that since you have just shown me how easy it is to send fake mail,
> it also seems it could be about as easy to add a fake spf/dkim into it with
> a little more python scripting.  End result is now google knows exactly who
> you are and who you're sending to and the spam filters are broken because
> now we'll have verified spam mail.
>
> Who are you?  Who do you know?  What is the content?  Where is your
> privacy?
>
> Problems with the ease of Telnetting spoof mail: I do not know anyone who
> has their very own homemade mail server, plus, I do not know anyone who has
> actually built and setup successfully a homebrew DIY email server.  I do
> know lots of people who have tried to do so, including myself.  It's way
> easier to buy it as a service and then it gets expensive.  Another problem
> is most of the free email servers won't allow users to send more than 10
> emails at a time and you have to wait up to an hour before you can send 10
> more.  That's why I tried to build my own, just so I could send customers
> the monthly billing automatically.  I even hired a programmer who said he
> had done it before, he failed.
> On 3/12/23 07:32, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>
> I can insert a spoofed email using only telnet to port 25 on a mail server
> in about 30 seconds not counting the time it takes to type the message
> itself. Basically you telnet to port 25, issue four commands (HELO, MAIL
> FROM, RCPT TO, DATA), and then type the message itself.
>
> Spoofing email in an automated way only takes some basic python skills.
>  Like I could teach anyone with a bit of computer experience how to do it
> in about an hour or so.  This python script can run on anything that runs
> python, which is pretty much any general purpose computing device.
>
> So it is ridiculously cheap and easy to spoof email.
>
> The reason it is so easy is that email by itself has zero authentication
> of origin and an open, plaintext, protocol.
>
> The purpose of spf/dkim/dmarc is to add a level of authentication
> information to at least be able to reject some spoofed emails.
>
> What that Google bounce says is that there is something in the mail.com
> email which doesn't match the spf/dmarc/dkim records.  I'm not 100٪ sure
> but it seems to not be happy with the linuxmail.org domain being inside
> the email record.
>
> How are the mail.com emails being generated?  Are they through a web
> server client on mail.com?  If not, where?  And are the emails from a
> mail.com address o

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

If you follow the instructions on
https://kb.easydns.com/knowledge/easymail-spf-and-dkim-records/ you should
be able to get this resolved.

On Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 2:50 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

> So, since grnacres doesn't have dkim or dmarc records, they should be
> getting bounced like the mail.com records too.  I don't have any control
> over the mail servers.  I rent the service "easymail" along with the domain
> name from easydns.  You know, it sounds to me more like google is a
> terrorist organization stamping on the competition just because they can
> get away with it.  They make shit up, and terrorize those whom they want to
> force into compliance with their made-up bullshit.  Next they're going to
> be asking for money
>
> Where is the anti-trust people when you need them?
> On 3/10/23 10:55, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> grnacres.net doesnt have dkim nor a dmarc record. Thats bad domain
> deliverability practice, nothing to do with the mailhost perse, but if
> mail.com doesnt support dkim, its a trash mail host like sherweb. Cant
> blame recipient mail servers when the root issue is the sending server isnt
> current. Its like getting pissed that somebody doesnt get communications
> you sent out by telegraph
>
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:49 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:b0d9:b0:8af:3519:ea1 with SMTP id 
>> bk25-20020a170906b0d900b008af35190ea1mr29983208ejb.57.1678462982507;
>> Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
>> ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1678462982; cv=none;
>> d=google.com; s=arc-20160816;
>> b=bJKHFyjF+9UzBXciF4y3cYBJwrgmwap9OQ3AsQpf2nOFXGkTbLP4C0qHnlLFHXPcA5
>>  TAdqmLZYourjPpwIUaAuOjrJO9npBlDZRwv5N/S7xI4iPV2aly79cft4VRXOcfmk7CA0
>>  n0mVQfby5GZR1DD+W1UzAdSHRUH51Nn/V7ounZGXel07tvWfVO8Oso9xga3lPfnUACNp
>>  TcgZPJSw+qZN7TBryDh9Wu1NFoyTBlKOGbgmQ/kCB0sSolGD+JqNOny+m40Pwdqh40ZD
>>  jfEM9U9v6Wc6ORTM1FaDpf5Lp9kw8+8gZwnpXwXqFX4mb8gxYt+hZCPJm+kDipw/lDr3
>>  bhLA==
>> ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; 
>> s=arc-20160816;
>> h=content-transfer-encoding:subject:from:content-language:to
>>  :user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id;
>> bh=IehNk68dy6Xm43VADrOc3Wts/VQhOY9VIh8QjaijTk8=;
>> b=NyqdCYZBzsrNlw9g7CPu4CfeQy64PQOMwX8TEIFWlUxO7XScd6qJ5xAmPDrypL8w2e
>>  /h4c7ONmrtQsk65hcKCBSJxq4sztWtnPNbv9HZ2VBdC6R/JGcUovOQ5syUTVRAaGoGyg
>>  6quG7biEF/Sud2xX/FBh1gMx50IFKJnscAlxCqvWnWzI5C01HgPhIT9hVh3Plz2YjWHQ
>>  hgdmHROdvAdaX6uEl3nz7l4ojOhValcTQDuIakI9ydlRN2QZT12hL1OWX71MpeoGvVMA
>>  jmEKbqXHlTu8rWPYvmL0M3Nx0V+oWCnCINPPYL1Pxu0Ob575PZS4DBo1hQE7tozljWxT
>>  avNg==
>> ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com;
>>spf=pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net designates 
>> 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=j.vank...@grnacres.net
>> Return-Path: 
>> Received: from mailout.easymail.ca (mailout.easymail.ca. [64.68.200.34])
>> by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 
>> p5-20020a1709066a8500b008d490a104b2si49101ejr.523.2023.03.10.07.43.02
>> for 
>> (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256);
>> Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
>> Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net designates 
>> 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) client-ip=64.68.200.34;
>> Authentication-Results: mx.google.com;
>>spf=pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net designates 
>> 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=j.vank...@grnacres.net
>> Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailout.easymail.ca 
>> (Postfix) with ESMTP id 738E268D1A for ; Fri, 10 
>> Mar 2023 15:43:01 + (UTC)
>> X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at emo09-pco.easydns.vpn
>> Received: from mailout.easymail.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost 
>> (emo09-pco.easydns.vpn [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 
>> csxoJG_y5IgL for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 15:43:01 
>> + (UTC)
>> Received: from [192.168.2.100] (047-224-130-187.res.spectrum.com 
>> [47.224.130.187]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 
>> bits)
>>   key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest 
>> SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mailout.easymail.ca (Postfix) 
>> with ESMTPSA id 03E3A68C4C for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 
>> 15:43:00 + (UTC)
>> Message-ID: <7b07154d-8e71-69fc-f76a-bcfb5ec52...@grnacres.net>
>> Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:42:59 -0800
>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 
>> Thunderbird/102.8.0
>> To: thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
>> Content-Language: en-US
>> From: Jan-GAMs 
>> Subject: hellody
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:47 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> nope, this gmail account is standard free account.
>>> Im probably special cause all my 

Re: [AFMUG] RF Cage for WIFI

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Three items that come to mind...

If they have external antennas remove them and replace them with 50 ohm
terminators appropriate for the connectors.

Or, wrap in copper mesh,  leaving no holes.  Foil would also work but then
you have heating issues.   I'd ground it to the shield on the coax input.
  You may have leakage around the power ports and cat5.  Adding ferrite
beads may help.

I also understand that Comcast also allows you to bring your own cable
modem which might be more convenient for you.

On Mon, Feb 27, 2023, 6:09 PM Nate Burke  wrote:

> I've got a Comcast residential Modem that I can't get the RF turned off
> in.  I haven't been able to find the right phrase at support to get them
> to do it.  So far All that's happened is they've removed the SSID's, but
> the RF is still broadcasting.  There are some 'RF cages' on Amazon to
> 'limit your exposure to WIFI'  But they're marketed as making your house
> 'healthier'  and reviews say they just slightly weaken the signal.
>
> Is there a way to properly ground out a cage around the modem to block
> all the WIFI?  Many moons ago, back in the days of 802.11b, I put an AP
> into a lead lined pelican case, and was still able to connect to the
> WIFI from outside of it.  I'm guessing I didn't do something right back
> then.
>
> FWIW though, I am getting 2.4gb/s x 230mb/s through the coax
> connection.  There's only a 2.5G interface on the modem.
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] I am back

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Don't let him fool ya

We almost had him convinced that tamales out of a can was acceptable food
to eat.  Lot easier to do without regular pictures of yummy Mexican food.

Hey, wait,  you've been back almost a full day and there haven't been any
weather girl pics or food pics.   You holding out on us???

On Thu, Feb 16, 2023, 8:51 AM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> yay
> Jaime Solorza
> Wireless Systems Architect
> 915-861-1390
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 16, 2023 at 8:49 AM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> Ive been eating jalapenos without vinegar
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 16, 2023 at 9:47 AM Jaime Solorza 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hola my fine feathered friends...
>>> I have been very busy even though I retired last year.  Health is good,
>>> I climbed a 100 ft. tower last week for a SCADA job near Kermit area for
>>> Midland Water, plus we landed a lucrative contract with ASUS for Fort Bliss
>>> Water.
>>>
>>> What's new with you folks?
>>> Peace
>>> Jaime Solorza
>>> Wireless Systems Architect
>>> 915-861-1390
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] UDP Server Load Balancer

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Just saw this, not sure if this still helps:

As John Osmon said, many UDP services don't need state - for instance DNS
servers.   Those you can set up as an anycast server where all the servers
get the same IP address on a loopback interface, and then you enter
multiple routes into the upstream routers to point at the servers.  This is
often done by running a small BGP or OSPF daemon on each server which
announces the IP addresses for the service it is handling and which is set
up to withdraw the routes if the server is broken.

For other services which need more sophisticated load balancing other than
"shove this packet to one of a set of machines, and it doesn't matter if
the next packet goes to the same machine or not", then you need to find a
reverse proxy or similar for your particular server.

What protocol are you needing to load balance?  That will help as far as
knowing what type of hints to provide.


On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 10:42 AM Paul Dowling 
wrote:

> Anyone know any good, affordable load balancers for UDP servers?
>
> Paul
> --
> Paul Dowling
> dowl...@believebroadband.com
> Believe Broadband
> www.believebroadband.com
> (410) 902-0070 x115
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
- Forrest
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Yep, that's what I mean.

If I need a certified welder, until a given person is a certified welder
that person does me exactly zero good as far as my need for a certified
welder.  Which means that the value to me of that person as a certified
welder is zero.

They may be worth $15/hr as a janitor or $100/hr as a senior systems
designer/engineer, assuming I need that skillset and that's what they're
qualified for.  But zero as a certified welder.

Going to a potential employer and saying "I'm not a certified welder but I
see you will train me to be one,  but you'll have to pay me the market rate
for a certified welder from day one" shouldn't seem reasonable to anyone.
Until the certificate is achieved the value to the employer is zero.

If a person wants a job that they aren't currently qualified for,  the
traditional method was to go to school and spend their own money and learn
a trade.  The offer Chuck and I make is that if you're completely
unqualified come work for a lower wage until I can get you up to speed.  In
my case the starting wage would be higher than $15 right now, but that's
because I tend to set it at whatever it seems the "entry level McDonald's"
wage is.


On Wed, Feb 15, 2023, 1:32 PM  wrote:

> I interpreted it in a more hyperbolic way.  I.E. The value of an unskilled
> person is zero to Forrest because Forrest requires skilled labor.  I don’t
> imagine that Forrest truly believes any person (skilled or otherwise) has
> zero value.
>
>
>
> The point about deferring income is well taken.  People could have child
> support payments, debts, etc which limit their options in life.  Hopefully
> not too many 18 yr old graduates have those issues, but I’m sure some do.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *fiber...@mail.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 15, 2023 3:20 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange
>
>
>
> The counterexamples were in response to the absolutist statement
> regardling the lack of value of labor. They were not directly related to
> market of welders.
>
>
>
> Indirectly, however, they relate via supply and demand. All labor has a
> market clearing price. If the market price of unskilled labor is higher
> than the wage of a welding trainee, it will reduce the available labor pool
> for welding trainees.
>
>
>
> Welding might very well be a better career move, but not all employees are
> in a position to defer income. Thus by surpressing the welding trainee pay,
> the employer is limiting the pool of applicants to those who can afford to
> take the job, rather than to all those who may have a disposition for the
> job.
>
>
>
>
>
> - Jared
>
>
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 15, 2023
> *From:* dmmoff...@gmail.com
> *To:* "'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'" 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange
>
> “This is provably incorrect. Counterexample: slavery and forced labor.”
>
>
>
> I’m not sure what the relevance is of forced labor in this discussion.  Do
> you mean because a $0 “employee” drives down the market price?
>
> Where are the slave welders that would alter Chuck’s pay scale?  I’m open
> to further discussion on this point, but at the moment I don’t see how it’s
> relevant.
>
>
>
> “$15/h may be an awesome deal or it may not, if working at McDonald's pays
> $18/h.”
>
>
>
> If McDonald’s pays $18/hr and a welding trainee gets $15/hr, you are *still
> better off long term taking the welding position*.  If you turn out to be
> a terrible welder then quit and go to McDonalds, but if you get good at it
> then your potential earnings go way farther up than the fast food
> industry.  I will take the $15 and figure out how to make it work, and I’ll
> say thank you very much for this opportunity, sir.  If I took the McDonalds
> position my best hope is to be a shift leader or assistant manager and I’d
> never make what a welder can make.
>
>
>
> “Market wages do not really care about what's "fair" or "reasonable".”
>
>
>
> Correct.  100%
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *fiber...@mail.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 15, 2023 2:29 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange
>
>
>
> This is provably incorrect. Counterexample: slavery and forced labor.
>
>
>
> $15/h may be an awesome deal or it may not, if working at McDonald's pays
> $18/h.
>
>
>
> Market wages do not really care about what's "fair" or "reasonable".
>
>
>
>
>
> - Jared
>
>
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 15, 2023 at 6:09 PM
> *From:* "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
> *To:* "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"

Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

The job listing said $15-35/hr as it's starting range.

The job description said if you come with no skills other than an ability
and willingness to learn it's $15/hr, and any skills you bring will
increase that starting wage.   The listing was perfectly clear that the $15
was was only for up to 6 months as a training wage and gave typical raise
increments.

It also listed a whole bunch of examples of relevant skills which would be
considered when determining the starting wage.

The person who replied didn't even bother to glance beyond the $15 he
picked up in one spot.

On Wed, Feb 15, 2023, 12:12 PM  wrote:

> You seem surprised that you were turned down when you didn't communicate
> clearly up front that the potential employee was being considered for a
> $25/hr role?
>
>
> - Jared
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 15, 2023
> *From:* "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
> *To:* "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange
> I listed a job about a year ago with multiple pay rates depending on
> experience.
>
> The lowest tier was at $15 an hour if you have zero experience and a
> willingness to learn.   It was also very clear in the description that this
> was a training wage and would only last around 6 months or less provided
> the applicant was able to learn the skill set needed.
>
> The job description also was very clear that we provide full health care
> for all employees,  5% matching 401k after 6 months,  and a few other
> benefits.
>
> I got a few responses in the same category that Chuck did.  My favorite
> was someone that I had reached out to because his resume looked good enough
> that I figured they would be a $25/hr person since they had various
> technology skills which I could use around here.   His response to me
> asking him if he'd like to come in for an interview was "not for $15/hr".
>  That was the entirety of the message.
>
> I replied with something like "Thank you for letting me know,  based on
> your response I don't think you'd be a good fit for your organization.
> FYI, based on your resume I was thinking closer to $25/hr, but at this
> point we're no longer interested."
>
> I got a slightly longer response back (like 5 words instead of 3) stating
> how he might be interested but at that point I wasn't.  I figure that
> someone who isn't going to take the time to consider a job opportunity
> beyond the first number they see isn't worth it to me.
>
> On Tue, Feb 14, 2023, 9:18 PM Chuck Macenski  wrote:
>
>> One way to say it: "The youth of today cannot live on $15 an hour so a
>> lot of candidates will not even walk through the door because other places
>> even in the field of welding pay higher to start."
>>
>> Another way to say it: "The youth of today will not invest in themselves."
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 9:48 PM Ryan Ray  wrote:
>>
>>> A lot of what is happening now can be attributed to housing imho.
>>>
>>> A house is your domain. The place you get things done. Your mind
>>> expands, you have more space to enjoy hobbies or learn something new.
>>> Personally, I don’t get that from an apartment when I have to worry about
>>> my neighbours and volume levels and having no space to do anything.
>>>
>>> I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with making your own sandwich, or
>>> living at your appropriate means, but I don’t consider living with
>>> roommates living. It’s a stepping stone to the American dream (owning a
>>> house).
>>>
>>> My parents have told me about their times growing up, living in the
>>> single wide. The pipes would freeze every winter and my dad would be down
>>> there with the hair dryer in the 70’s to unthaw. That’s all fine and dandy.
>>> When they had me in 88, they bought a house, probably 1700sqft, it was
>>> nice. I wouldn’t have had the childhood I had by being in a trailer.
>>>
>>> I don’t really believe in religion of any kind, they all have valuable
>>> teachings (and not so valuable) but I think it’s just how you think about
>>> the world at large. Things are always changing, and I don’t think it’s a
>>> bad mantra to think that the new generation should have it better than
>>> generations past. Doesn’t mean you have to stop learning, or applying
>>> yourself. In Canada specifically our housing is so out of control that even
>>> a new family with one kid still has to rent and/or be in a small apartment
>>> unless they wait until they’re 40 and have had decent paying jobs (70k) a
>>> year for a while.
>>>
>>> Or l

Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

I really wish there was a way that one could determine if the maximum an
employer was willing to pay overlapped with the minimum an employee would
accept without completely spoiling the whole negotiation process.

I don't want to waste anyone's time if I won't be able to pay anything
close to what they need.

I have the same issue with some vendors who force you through this entire
quoting process to find out that the lowest price they can offer is 10x
what you'd be able to afford.

On Wed, Feb 15, 2023, 9:33 AM  wrote:

> If they didn’t advertise any range or even a ballpark figure at all then
> it’s fair to ask what they had in mind.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Zach Underwood
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 15, 2023 11:28 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange
>
>
>
> I disagree with that, late last year I was laid off so most of January I
> was looking for another job. I was making over 100k at the last role and
> more than one interview   in January  for a role only to find out they top
> out at like 60k. So after that I would only interview if I knew the range.
> It was a waste of time for me if I did not know the pay..
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 15, 2023 at 11:17 AM  wrote:
>
> Not only that, but part of Job Hunting 101 is don’t discuss compensation
> too early.  This isn’t some executive level skill, everyone should know
> this.  You can negotiate once it’s understood that both parties are
> interested.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Forrest Christian
> (List Account)
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 15, 2023 11:10 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange
>
>
>
> The value of someone with zero skills and experience is zero.
>
>
>
> The fact that many employers are willing to hire someone that has zero
> skills and experience at $15/hr and train them at zero cost to the employee
> is an awesome deal for a person who wants an opportunity.
>
>
>
> Unfortunately it seems that a lot of people with zero skills and zero
> experience think they should get paid at the same rate as someone who has
> gone to school on their own dime and learned a trade.   Or the same as
> someone who has 20 years experience.
>
>
>
> Apparently the electrical field has the same problems.  Employers willing
> to take the risk on someone and pay not only to train the people but also
> to pay a survival wage during training are often rewarded by applicants
> that demand the same wages as fully licensed electricians.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 15, 2023, 8:08 AM  wrote:
>
> I don't quite get the logic of this.
>
>
>
> Why would you work for less than market wages?
>
>
>
> How is working for less than market wages an investment in yourself?
>
>
>
> - Jared
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, February 15, 2023 Chuck Macenski wrote:
>
> One way to say it: "The youth of today cannot live on $15 an hour so a lot
> of candidates will not even walk through the door because other places even
> in the field of welding pay higher to start."
>
>
>
> Another way to say it: "The youth of today will not invest in themselves."
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 9:48 PM Ryan Ray  wrote:
>
> A lot of what is happening now can be attributed to housing imho.
>
>
>
> A house is your domain. The place you get things done. Your mind expands,
> you have more space to enjoy hobbies or learn something new. Personally, I
> don’t get that from an apartment when I have to worry about my neighbours
> and volume levels and having no space to do anything.
>
>
>
> I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with making your own sandwich, or
> living at your appropriate means, but I don’t consider living with
> roommates living. It’s a stepping stone to the American dream (owning a
> house).
>
>
>
> My parents have told me about their times growing up, living in the single
> wide. The pipes would freeze every winter and my dad would be down there
> with the hair dryer in the 70’s to unthaw. That’s all fine and dandy. When
> they had me in 88, they bought a house, probably 1700sqft, it was nice. I
> wouldn’t have had the childhood I had by being in a trailer.
>
>
>
> I don’t really believe in religion of any kind, they all have valuable
> teachings (and not so valuable) but I think it’s just how you think about
> the world at large. Things are always changing, and I don’t think it’s a
> bad mantra to think that the new generation should have it better than
> generations past. Doesn’t mean you have to stop learning, or applying
> yourself. In Canada specifically our housing 

Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

The value of someone with zero skills and experience is zero.

The fact that many employers are willing to hire someone that has zero
skills and experience at $15/hr and train them at zero cost to the employee
is an awesome deal for a person who wants an opportunity.

Unfortunately it seems that a lot of people with zero skills and zero
experience think they should get paid at the same rate as someone who has
gone to school on their own dime and learned a trade.   Or the same as
someone who has 20 years experience.

Apparently the electrical field has the same problems.  Employers willing
to take the risk on someone and pay not only to train the people but also
to pay a survival wage during training are often rewarded by applicants
that demand the same wages as fully licensed electricians.



On Wed, Feb 15, 2023, 8:08 AM  wrote:

> I don't quite get the logic of this.
>
> Why would you work for less than market wages?
>
> How is working for less than market wages an investment in yourself?
>
> - Jared
>
>
> On Wednesday, February 15, 2023 Chuck Macenski wrote:
> One way to say it: "The youth of today cannot live on $15 an hour so a lot
> of candidates will not even walk through the door because other places even
> in the field of welding pay higher to start."
>
> Another way to say it: "The youth of today will not invest in themselves."
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 9:48 PM Ryan Ray  wrote:
>
>> A lot of what is happening now can be attributed to housing imho.
>>
>> A house is your domain. The place you get things done. Your mind expands,
>> you have more space to enjoy hobbies or learn something new. Personally, I
>> don’t get that from an apartment when I have to worry about my neighbours
>> and volume levels and having no space to do anything.
>>
>> I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with making your own sandwich, or
>> living at your appropriate means, but I don’t consider living with
>> roommates living. It’s a stepping stone to the American dream (owning a
>> house).
>>
>> My parents have told me about their times growing up, living in the
>> single wide. The pipes would freeze every winter and my dad would be down
>> there with the hair dryer in the 70’s to unthaw. That’s all fine and dandy.
>> When they had me in 88, they bought a house, probably 1700sqft, it was
>> nice. I wouldn’t have had the childhood I had by being in a trailer.
>>
>> I don’t really believe in religion of any kind, they all have valuable
>> teachings (and not so valuable) but I think it’s just how you think about
>> the world at large. Things are always changing, and I don’t think it’s a
>> bad mantra to think that the new generation should have it better than
>> generations past. Doesn’t mean you have to stop learning, or applying
>> yourself. In Canada specifically our housing is so out of control that even
>> a new family with one kid still has to rent and/or be in a small apartment
>> unless they wait until they’re 40 and have had decent paying jobs (70k) a
>> year for a while.
>>
>> Or live in the boonies and kill your own food, gather your own wood, and
>> there’s nothing wrong with that either.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 5:25 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>>> Exactly what problems are young people facing?  Almost every single one
>>> that wants to can enlist in the military.  That will feed them and teach
>>> them a skill (and some manners, and how to work) and they will come out
>>> with the VA and GI Bill.  Pell grants, student loans.
>>>
>>> If someone wants to better themselves, they can.  Kids today have it far
>>> easier than ever before.  Work from home, online classes that are free,
>>> hell you can learn highly specialized technical stuff on Youtube.
>>>
>>> What is wrong with making yourself a sandwich?  If you are broke, don’t
>>> f**king spend.  You are making my point for me.
>>>
>>> Oh, the horrors of having to cook your own food, walking to work and
>>> living in a single wide.  Those are human rights abuses man!  (said all the
>>> snowflakes and they melted and went down the storm sewer)
>>>
>>> Where on the stone tablets that Moses brought down from the mountain
>>> does it say: “Young people should have it easier than you had it”?
>>>
>>> You eat what you kill.
>>>
>>>
>>> https://historyhustle.com/2500-years-of-people-complaining-about-the-younger-generation/
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Ryan Ray
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2023 5:55 PM
>>> *To:* Chuck McCown
>>> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange
>>>
>>> Not defeatist or jealousy or envy.
>>>
>>> I’m 34, I bought a 2500sqft house on a green belt in 2013 (25 Years
>>> old). Sold my company, and I live an extremely comfortable life for someone
>>> my age. No mortgage, a couple nice cars. I worked very hard, lots of long
>>> nights, lots of learning to get to where I’m at, and did it all without
>>> having any generational wealth to start with. To phrase it for you old
>>> folks, I pulled myself up 

Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

I listed a job about a year ago with multiple pay rates depending on
experience.

The lowest tier was at $15 an hour if you have zero experience and a
willingness to learn.   It was also very clear in the description that this
was a training wage and would only last around 6 months or less provided
the applicant was able to learn the skill set needed.

The job description also was very clear that we provide full health care
for all employees,  5% matching 401k after 6 months,  and a few other
benefits.

I got a few responses in the same category that Chuck did.  My favorite was
someone that I had reached out to because his resume looked good enough
that I figured they would be a $25/hr person since they had various
technology skills which I could use around here.   His response to me
asking him if he'd like to come in for an interview was "not for $15/hr".
 That was the entirety of the message.

I replied with something like "Thank you for letting me know,  based on
your response I don't think you'd be a good fit for your organization.
FYI, based on your resume I was thinking closer to $25/hr, but at this
point we're no longer interested."

I got a slightly longer response back (like 5 words instead of 3) stating
how he might be interested but at that point I wasn't.  I figure that
someone who isn't going to take the time to consider a job opportunity
beyond the first number they see isn't worth it to me.

On Tue, Feb 14, 2023, 9:18 PM Chuck Macenski  wrote:

> One way to say it: "The youth of today cannot live on $15 an hour so a lot
> of candidates will not even walk through the door because other places even
> in the field of welding pay higher to start."
>
> Another way to say it: "The youth of today will not invest in themselves."
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 9:48 PM Ryan Ray  wrote:
>
>> A lot of what is happening now can be attributed to housing imho.
>>
>> A house is your domain. The place you get things done. Your mind expands,
>> you have more space to enjoy hobbies or learn something new. Personally, I
>> don’t get that from an apartment when I have to worry about my neighbours
>> and volume levels and having no space to do anything.
>>
>> I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with making your own sandwich, or
>> living at your appropriate means, but I don’t consider living with
>> roommates living. It’s a stepping stone to the American dream (owning a
>> house).
>>
>> My parents have told me about their times growing up, living in the
>> single wide. The pipes would freeze every winter and my dad would be down
>> there with the hair dryer in the 70’s to unthaw. That’s all fine and dandy.
>> When they had me in 88, they bought a house, probably 1700sqft, it was
>> nice. I wouldn’t have had the childhood I had by being in a trailer.
>>
>> I don’t really believe in religion of any kind, they all have valuable
>> teachings (and not so valuable) but I think it’s just how you think about
>> the world at large. Things are always changing, and I don’t think it’s a
>> bad mantra to think that the new generation should have it better than
>> generations past. Doesn’t mean you have to stop learning, or applying
>> yourself. In Canada specifically our housing is so out of control that even
>> a new family with one kid still has to rent and/or be in a small apartment
>> unless they wait until they’re 40 and have had decent paying jobs (70k) a
>> year for a while.
>>
>> Or live in the boonies and kill your own food, gather your own wood, and
>> there’s nothing wrong with that either.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 5:25 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>>> Exactly what problems are young people facing?  Almost every single one
>>> that wants to can enlist in the military.  That will feed them and teach
>>> them a skill (and some manners, and how to work) and they will come out
>>> with the VA and GI Bill.  Pell grants, student loans.
>>>
>>> If someone wants to better themselves, they can.  Kids today have it far
>>> easier than ever before.  Work from home, online classes that are free,
>>> hell you can learn highly specialized technical stuff on Youtube.
>>>
>>> What is wrong with making yourself a sandwich?  If you are broke, don’t
>>> f**king spend.  You are making my point for me.
>>>
>>> Oh, the horrors of having to cook your own food, walking to work and
>>> living in a single wide.  Those are human rights abuses man!  (said all the
>>> snowflakes and they melted and went down the storm sewer)
>>>
>>> Where on the stone tablets that Moses brought down from the mountain
>>> does it say: “Young people should have it easier than you had it”?
>>>
>>> You eat what you kill.
>>>
>>>
>>> https://historyhustle.com/2500-years-of-people-complaining-about-the-younger-generation/
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Ryan Ray
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2023 5:55 PM
>>> *To:* Chuck McCown
>>> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange
>>>
>>> Not defeatist or jealousy or envy.
>>>
>>> 

Re: [AFMUG] Missed me by that much

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Mine records only for a certain period after the ignition is off, and has
enough storage that it won't overwrite for something like 36 hours of
storage.

I also have learned to keep a second sd card for it in the glove box since
there have been a couple instances where I needed to be 100% the footage
was intact,  and the best way to do that is to swap the SD card to a new
one.

On Wed, Feb 8, 2023, 11:15 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> So if you get in a crash and cannot push the button do you lose the video
> or?
>
>
>
> *From:* James Howard
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 8, 2023 11:08 AM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Missed me by that much
>
>
> The ones I have all have SD cards in them.  Some go up to 256G and can
> hold a lot.  They all have settings for length of recording, mine have 1, 3
> and 5 minute options.  It starts a new file and then you can tell it to
> overwrite the oldest when they fill up.  They usually also have buttons you
> can hit to mark the current file as locked or something like that so it
> won’t overwrite if something happens that you want to save.  With 128G I
> think mine holds over 10hours at 1080p.  I have one that I can connect to
> with my cell phone and watch the videos through that.  I’ve never done it
> though.   Depending on what you want to do, you can get them with cell
> service also that work as location tracking too.  I haven’t looked at
> what’s out there for that in the last couple years though.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 7, 2023 5:08 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Missed me by that much
>
>
>
> So do dash cams record continually whenever your car is turned on?
>
> Do they write over memory?
>
>
>
> *From:* James Howard
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 7, 2023 3:35 PM
>
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Missed me by that much
>
>
>
> Record all your calls with them.  My daughter made a left turn (she
> thought she had a green arrow but wasn’t positive and told the cop and
> insurance guy that) in front of a car that might have run a red light if
> she was correct.  It was a four lane street and the oncoming car by all
> accounts including the driver was in the left lane.  He hit the rear wheel
> of my daughter’s Jeep in the crosswalk of the street she had turned into
> (he came from the left lane, actually came across a lane to hit her in the
> left lane of the street she had turned into).  They pulled into the gas
> station at the corner to get out of traffic (his suggestion).  I came
> because my daughter didn’t have proof of insurance in the Jeep so I ran
> over to show that on my phone.  The other guy comes out of his car and
> knocks on my daughter’s window since it had started to rain and says “do
> you happen to have any cigarettes, I don’t want to run to gas station in
> the rain”.  17 year old daughter was driving.  15 year old sitting in
> passenger seat (was reading a book when it happened so said she didn’t see
> anything) was who the guy asked for cigs.   Anyway, back to the story, he
> tells the cop while I’m sitting there that he was going straight at the
> intersection (nothing about turning) and was pretty sure he had a green
> light.  Cop says since they left the intersection he couldn’t write
> anything for sure.  You could see the pile of pieces in the crosswalk that
> came off my daughter’s Jeep but he said there was no proof that it happened
> there.  There were skid marks but not definitive.  Cop felt bad but I
> understand he couldn’t state what he thought probably happened.  So,
> anyway, I check with gas station and they don’t have any cameras pointed at
> the intersection so no footage.
>
>
>
> So to the reason for recording all calls from State Farm.  I have State
> Farm but because it was an older Jeep we don’t have collision coverage.
> The other driver also had State Farm but had an almost new CRV and had full
> coverage.  Jeep was still sort of driveable (I ended up selling it for
> $500) but the whole front end of CRV was hanging off.  State Farm calls me
> and asks to talk to my daughter.  I sit next to her while she’s talking to
> them.  She tells them that she’s pretty sure she had a green arrow but
> she’s not positive.  State Farm talks to the other guy.  State Farm calls
> me back and says “your daughter is 85% at fault so you get nothing”.   I
> said wait a minute…..  how is 85% her fault if the other guy came across 2
> lanes and told the cop on sight he was going straight, not turning?  The
> State Farm guy says “your daughter said she turned in front of him and he
> had a green light”.  I said that is completely false.  I was sitting here
> when she said she was pretty sure she had a green arrow.  State Farm says
> “the other driver stated that he had a green light and your daughter turned
> in front of him”.  So I said, “my 15 year 

Re: [AFMUG] Neg 48V Power Supply

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Any isolated 48V supply works,  just use the + wire for your return and the
- for your -48v.

I'm fond of the meanwell hlg supplies.

The only gotcha is that some supplies will tie the negative wire to the
ground pin on the ac plug, forcing it to be a +48v supply.  You can use an
ohmmeter to verify that this connection doesn't exist. Measure from the
ground pin to the - output without the supply powered on.  Shouldn't show
continunity.

On Tue, Feb 7, 2023, 7:27 PM Sterling Jacobson  wrote:

> I've got a few projects where I just need a simple telco -48v power supply
> from AC plug.
>
> I've got a lot of the "normal" PS units lying around.
>
> But what does it take to power a -48v device?
>
> Is it something I can/should just rig from a standard AC to DC 48v PS?
>
> Or is there something out there I should purchase instead that is fairly
> cheap?
>
> I'm using ITC Rectifiers for my -48v plant in several areas, I just
> haven't built out the DC plant in all areas but have one or two units that
> need it already on site.
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

[AFMUG] IP Camera Reccomendations.

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Looking for some additional standards-based IP cameras to add to my
system.  H.264, H.265, etc. Various types.   Dome, maybe 360 fisheye, and I
think I need two more which are either a bit more directional or that I can
swap the lens on since what I'm watching is a bit far from where I can
mount the cameras.

Don't want something tied to a specific PVR which I think includes the UBNT
cameras.

I would also prefer to avoid brands which are on the FCC banned list  (
https://www.fcc.gov/supplychain/coveredlist) or are known to have serious
security issues which eliminates the HikVision cameras many of us used to
use.  The ones I have already are on a separate subnet which is firewalled
from the internet (no access except to my surveillance server), but I don't
really want to add more if I can avoid it for a reasonable price.

What is everyone using?

-- 
- Forrest
-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] 450m 3ghz sync with packetflux rackinjector

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

I figure I've told enough people to do this that I would have bought a few
radios by now if it released the smoke.



On Mon, Jan 30, 2023, 9:48 AM Steve Jones  wrote:

> It took a lot of faith in forrest to do this. There was no magic smoke
>
> On Sun, Jan 29, 2023, 11:00 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>> The 450m 3ghz ignores any power on the port so it is perfectly safe to
>> provide PoE+sync to the radio.   The power needs to be there to ensure
>> reliable transmission of the sync signal.
>>
>> So yes,  use that board,  provide either +48v or -48V on that port, and
>> the radio will be perfectly happy to get sync from the ethernet port while
>> getting its power from the power port.
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 29, 2023, 8:04 PM lists gogebicrange.net <
>> li...@gogebicrange.net> wrote:
>>
>>>   I would think this has been covered in the past but I
>>> didn’t find it with a search of my old emails so…
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> When working with the 450m 3ghz AP’s , powering with DC and carrying
>>> data on ethernet. How does one provide sync from a Packetflux RackInjector?
>>> I assume that you just provide it with the most modern card they are
>>> offering (*Power Injection for Cambium Sync Board) **by sending the POE
>>> + sync up the ethernet data cable that is already in use. BUT I don’t want
>>> to send a POE up that cable since the 3ghz wont power over ethernet and the
>>> unit is already DC powered without asking.  *
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Is anyone using Packetflux RackInjector to provide the sync on the 3ghz
>>> APs with this configuration?*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Thank,*
>>>
>>> *Brandon*
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] 450m 3ghz sync with packetflux rackinjector

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

The 450m 3ghz ignores any power on the port so it is perfectly safe to
provide PoE+sync to the radio.   The power needs to be there to ensure
reliable transmission of the sync signal.

So yes,  use that board,  provide either +48v or -48V on that port, and the
radio will be perfectly happy to get sync from the ethernet port while
getting its power from the power port.

On Sun, Jan 29, 2023, 8:04 PM lists gogebicrange.net 
wrote:

>   I would think this has been covered in the past but I didn’t
> find it with a search of my old emails so…
>
>
>
> When working with the 450m 3ghz AP’s , powering with DC and carrying data
> on ethernet. How does one provide sync from a Packetflux RackInjector? I
> assume that you just provide it with the most modern card they are offering
> (*Power Injection for Cambium Sync Board) **by sending the POE + sync up
> the ethernet data cable that is already in use. BUT I don’t want to send a
> POE up that cable since the 3ghz wont power over ethernet and the unit is
> already DC powered without asking.  *
>
>
>
> *Is anyone using Packetflux RackInjector to provide the sync on the 3ghz
> APs with this configuration?*
>
>
>
> *Thank,*
>
> *Brandon*
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] FCC Proposes $62 Million penalty against Q Link Wireless for violation of EBB program rules

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Not exactly the same type of subsidy program, but I'm starting to belive
that the government needs to migrate almost all of the build out subsidies
to put equal access fiber in the ground.  That is,  the subsidy is only for
the fiber build.

 Single strand or two from each house to a concentrator box and then a
excessive number of backhaul/middle mile strands.  Then any isp can use the
resources that are built.  The price to use the resources must be
effectively zero and rules must be in place to limit the percentage of
middle mile strands that a single provider can use.

You get paid if you build to spec.   Once it's been independently verified
that you built it then you get paid.   Not before.

Eliminates fraud and Eliminates the government subsidizing one provider
which often eliminates the possibility of competition.  Makes it easy for a
provider to enter an area (drop a OLT in a cabinet).

There are several countries (some rural) that adopted this pattern with
good results.  Obviously the details would matter here,  but I'm tired of
programs that have so many rules that only the big providers can really
apply.  Or if you do win as a small provider the cost to operate inside the
grant guidelines often make it not worth it.

On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 5:12 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

> ditto that one
> On 1/22/23 13:54, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:
>
> 
>
> interesting reading.  glad we didn't participate in the connected device
> program
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Steve Jones 
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 19, 2023 9:12 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FCC Proposes $62 Million penalty against Q Link
> Wireless for violation of EBB program rules
>
> Weird stuff to redact. Seems this should all be public info since it was
> the publics money. Monetary recompense is nice and all, but until we start
> executing owners in the town square, violently, every program will be scam
> full. Maybe we dont execute everybody, but we cut off their hands that were
> in the cookie jar and use images of their nubs to remind would be thieves
> that their ability to rub one out will be greatly diminished. Could even
> offset some of the pilfered funds through auctions of their fingers and
> various hand bones.
>
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 2:52 PM Tim Hardy  wrote:
>
>> docs.fcc.gov 
>> 
>> 
>>
>> So many redactions, it’s like reading the Mueller report.
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>> --
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>>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] PacketFLux Gen Controller alternative

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Yep.   Sort of was headed that way.   Actually the plan was to either
provide a UL listed ac output wall wart (so I could get frequency out of
it), or some sort of ul listed ac power monitor.But for various
reasons,  including the low volume, the whole project got put aside.   I'd
have to look at the timing but I think it was around the time we were
working on the rackinjector so that was likely the cause.

I'll have to revisit the product at some point here.   I'm just glad to be
finally back to the point where normal R is happening and that might be a
possibility.   I'm so sick of continously searching for and qualifying
replacement parts for things that have gone completely unavailable.
Fortunately the supply chain has largely settled down at this point, even
though lead times are still uncomfortably long.

On Wed, Jan 11, 2023, 4:39 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Don’t bring AC to the board.  Use a UL listed unregulated Wall wart.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 11, 2023, at 2:39 AM, Gino A. Villarini  wrote:
>
> 
>
> Yes,
>
>
>
> Basic gen stuff like the one mentioned.  But also need the more complex
> sequencing stuff, to make sure the engine is running.  Any way to get
> around the AC-Insurance thing? Maybe just monitor DC?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> <https://aeronetpr.com> *Gino Villarini*
> Founder / President
> @GVillarini
> 787.273.4143 |
>
> 
> <https://www.inc.com/profile/aeronet>
> 
> <https://www.facebook.com/aeronetpr>
> 
> <https://www.instagram.com/aeronetpr/>
> 
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/aeronet-broadband-corp>
> 
> <https://twitter.com/aeronetpr>
> 
> <https://www.youtube.com/user/AeroNetPR> <https://wa.me/17872734143>
> 
> <https://wa.me/17872734144>
> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968
> <https://homefi.pr>
> 
> <https://aeronetpr.com> <https://aeronetpr.com>
> <https://homefi.pr>
>
> *From: *AF  on behalf of Forrest Christian (List
> Account) 
> *Date: *Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 3:51 PM
> *To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] PacketFLux Gen Controller alternative
>
>
>
> Which features were you using?
>
>
>
> The reason I ask is that we've finally restarted software development on
> the logic/scripting engine for the base3 and the rules portion of the
> generator controller is forming the basis for those tools. If it's just
> start the generator when voltage is low and let it run for some time,  that
> will be easy to recreate.   Some of the fancy sequencing/state engine
> probably won't make it in,  but some of that will also be able to be
> recreated.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 10, 2023, 11:34 AM Gino A. Villarini 
> wrote:
>
> Since Forrest decide to kill the product, we haven’t found a good
> replacement.
>
>
>
> Any ideas?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faeronetpr.com%2F=05%7C01%7Cgav%40aeronetpr.com%7C12336e50398d48432b4208daf344204b%7C786321c8ea74460e81c62d3479dd1728%7C0%7C0%7C638089771175796776%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=4%2FKetBNlkqSJSImjYXZLcrFFgSOgBHpm0v6Nvz4a9OE%3D=0>
> 
> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faeronetpr.com%2F=05%7C01%7Cgav%40aeronetpr.com%7C12336e50398d48432b4208daf344204b%7C786321c8ea74460e81c62d3479dd1728%7C0%7C0%7C638089771175796776%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=4%2FKetBNlkqSJSImjYXZLcrFFgSOgBHpm0v6Nvz4a9OE%3D=0>
>
> *Gino Villarini*
> Founder / President
> @GVillarini
> 787.273.4143 |
>
>
> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fprotect-us.mimecast.com%2Fs%2FGbY1C82xvvcvloBfnNiPy%3Fdomain%3Dinc.com=05%7C01%7Cgav%40aeronetpr.com%7C12336e50398d48432b4208daf344204b%7C786321c8ea74460e81c62d3479dd1728%7C0%7C0%7C638089771175796776%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=YqdtA3Bn35TuNyBRqY9OGfZ457n2VdowuKUJe5Me8Kg%3D=0>
> 
> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fprotect-us.mimecast.com%2Fs%2FGbY1C82xvvcvloBfnNiPy%3Fdomain%3Dinc.com=05%7C01%7Cgav%40aeronetpr.com%7C12336e50398d48432b4208daf344204b%7C786321c8ea74460e81c62d3479dd1728%7C0%7C0%7C638089771175796776%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=YqdtA3Bn35TuNyBRqY9OGfZ457n2VdowuKUJe5Me8Kg%3D=0>
>
>
> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fprotect-us.mimecast.com%2Fs%2F8uTIC9rywwF3vGrcEJWzh%

Re: [AFMUG] Direct bury tracer wire reccomendations/experience.

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

I'm not sure we ever figured the actual cause out since the one i can think
of most recently was buried..  just was able to trace it to a point and no
further.  This was years ago at this point.   I also remember water
penetration to be an issue in another case where a conduit filed with
water.

I know thhn can be fairly easily damaged when buried since the jacket is
relatively easy to puncture.  I'm assuming the "correct" wire is a harder,
rock-resistant coating.

On Mon, Jan 9, 2023, 10:17 AM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> That's a good point - the 24 gauge we use is part of the fiber
> insulation that has fiberglass strength members.  I don't think you would
> want to place insulated 24 gauge straight in the hole because it is weak.
>
> >The question is how to ensure that section is locateable.
> Yep ground rod it is.  This is what we do every 100-1500 feet in our
> handholes for fiber (which is conducted via armor, no idea what that would
> be in terms of gauge).
>
> >thhn direct bury tracer wire fail,  or at least not be locatable past a
> certain
> Fail as in it broke?  Bigger cable would break less, but at what point do
> you stop?  The 14 gauge sounds like a good option if that's what UDOT wants
> and it's durable - it's just expensive.  If it's cheaper than a repair then
> it absolutely makes sense.  How often are you digging up 3 foot water lines?
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 12:05 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> 14 gauge is rugged and will last.  I think the gas company out here uses
>> 14 gauge.  20 gauge on up is not terribly strong.  UDOT recently changed
>> their spec for the tracer molded into MD7 microduct from 20 gauge to 14
>> gauge.
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Monday, January 9, 2023 9:37 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Direct bury tracer wire
>> reccomendations/experience.
>>
>> Don't you have some random copper laying around?  Our fiber tracer wire
>> is 24 awg.  Just place the conductive wire in the same hole as the
>> water/sewer lines.  The color is kind of pointless but I guess you could
>> spend the money and follow the rules *shrug*.
>>
>> If the wire ends the locate ends.  Why not just extend the wire with the
>> new pipe?
>>
>> 14 gauge seems like way too big if you ask me, that's a lot of money down
>> that new sewer line.
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 11:31 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
>> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm working on doing specs for a project (home) which will require
>>> burying new water and sewer lines on the property.
>>>
>>> I'm tired of not being able to locate these after they're buried so I
>>> plan on having the contractor bury some tracer wire along with the plumbing.
>>>
>>> I've learned that the best option for things like this is to either spec
>>> or provide exactly what I want buried.   Otherwise you'll end up with some
>>> inexperienced contractor which installs something which won't work.
>>>
>>> Apparently the choices for tracer wire are far more varied than I had
>>> expected.  Insulation,  metal type, gauge, color, and so on.
>>>
>>> It looks like 14AWG copper HMWPE might be what I'm looking for.  But
>>> there are other options as well.Does any of this work better or is less
>>> (or more) likely to be damaged in a way which makes it untraceable?  I'm
>>> assuming green and blue will be needed for sewer and water.
>>>
>>> I don't think the following will apply, but there is also the
>>> possibility that at least one of the lines won't terminate at one end
>>> anywhere that we can poke the wire up above the ground (tapping into
>>> existing line) I'm assuming that one can resolve this by laying a ground
>>> rod in the trench and terminating to that.
>>>
>>> Any other things I should watch for here?
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Direct bury tracer wire reccomendations/experience.

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

The place where the line might end is a sewer line addition.  I don't
expect that they'll end up digging a new line all the way to the tank,
instead I'd expect them to find the existing pipe in the middle of the
parking area and dig the new trench to that location,  and add a Y of some
sort into the existing main line.  So the only place I would be able to add
the tracer would be along the new line.   The question is how to ensure
that section is locateable.

And as far as locate wire goes, when I've done fiber, I typically just pull
in some thhn or similar with the fiber or use locatable fiber.  But I've
also seen thhn direct bury tracer wire fail,  or at least not be locatable
past a certain.  In a conduit this isn't a problem, you just replace the
cable.   Direct bury next to plastic water pipes is a different story.

On Mon, Jan 9, 2023, 9:38 AM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Don't you have some random copper laying around?  Our fiber tracer wire is
> 24 awg.  Just place the conductive wire in the same hole as the water/sewer
> lines.  The color is kind of pointless but I guess you could spend the
> money and follow the rules *shrug*.
>
> If the wire ends the locate ends.  Why not just extend the wire with the
> new pipe?
>
> 14 gauge seems like way too big if you ask me, that's a lot of money down
> that new sewer line.
>
> On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 11:31 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm working on doing specs for a project (home) which will require
>> burying new water and sewer lines on the property.
>>
>> I'm tired of not being able to locate these after they're buried so I
>> plan on having the contractor bury some tracer wire along with the plumbing.
>>
>> I've learned that the best option for things like this is to either spec
>> or provide exactly what I want buried.   Otherwise you'll end up with some
>> inexperienced contractor which installs something which won't work.
>>
>> Apparently the choices for tracer wire are far more varied than I had
>> expected.  Insulation,  metal type, gauge, color, and so on.
>>
>> It looks like 14AWG copper HMWPE might be what I'm looking for.  But
>> there are other options as well.Does any of this work better or is less
>> (or more) likely to be damaged in a way which makes it untraceable?  I'm
>> assuming green and blue will be needed for sewer and water.
>>
>> I don't think the following will apply, but there is also the possibility
>> that at least one of the lines won't terminate at one end anywhere that we
>> can poke the wire up above the ground (tapping into existing line) I'm
>> assuming that one can resolve this by laying a ground rod in the trench and
>> terminating to that.
>>
>> Any other things I should watch for here?
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] backup power for small tower

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

I'm suggesting on the AC line if that's where the noise is coming from.

My guess is one of two things:

1) somehow the truck is generating rf noise.  For example they have a
mobile Hotspot or signal booster or something like that. Or some other non
obvious source.

2) the truck is generating noise on the electrical system.   Check for bad
grounds, apply filtering, and so on.  Changing the shielding arrangement on
the cat5 cable might help.   That is add/remove shield, try
 connecting/grounding the shield on both ends or just the top,  or just the
bottom.   And try grounding the shield without connecting it to the radio.


The question here is where is the noise coming from.One way to isolate
the power as an option is to try running off a generator.   Or have the
truck run off the generator.

On Mon, Jan 9, 2023, 9:06 AM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> I had a 0% success rate with ferrite.
>
> I have a 100% success rate with fiber (up the tower).
>
> On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 10:57 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>> Agreed.   And if it's on the ethernet side, just adding some ferrite
>> chokes to the power line might fix the problem.   Or switching to shielded
>> cable.
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 9, 2023, 7:52 AM Josh Luthman 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Step 1 is to figure out where your packet loss is coming from.  If it's
>>> interference on the RF side, changing to a DC plant is a complete waste of
>>> time/money.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 9:21 AM  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Usually when people say "DC plant" they mean a rectifier.  A charger +
>>>> inverter like you proposed would probably also count as having DC power
>>>> plant.
>>>> I used one of these once:
>>>> https://www.aimscorp.net/12-Volt-Pure-Sine-Inverter-Chargers/
>>>> Worked fine, but no remote management.  I'm sure there are a dozen
>>>> options out there to pick from.
>>>>
>>>> An isolation transformer might be a less intrusive change.  Tripp Lite
>>>> makes some affordable ones.  On the trip lite ones I had the hot and
>>>> neutral were isolated, but the ground passed straight through.  Depending
>>>> on where the noise is coming from that might not fix it, but you can test
>>>> an isolated ground by snapping off the ground prong on the transformer or
>>>> using a 2-prong adapter.  I say "test" because you shouldn't run without a
>>>> ground permanently.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Jan-GAMs
>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2023 3:41 PM
>>>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] backup power for small tower
>>>>
>>>> It's in a parking-lot of a business and they started plugging their
>>>> food truck into the power-source.  So what do you mean by "DC plant"?
>>>>
>>>> On 1/8/23 12:20, Bill Prince wrote:
>>>> > If your site is 100% DC-powered, the batteries should provide all the
>>>> > isolation you need. My suggestion is to just switch to DC plant.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > bp
>>>> > 
>>>> >
>>>> > On 1/8/2023 11:21 AM, Jan-GAMs wrote:
>>>> >> Ever since a food truck started plugging their truck into the same
>>>> >> power source we use we've been experiencing severe packet loss
>>>> >> through it.  Possibly electrical motor-hum?  Anyway, I'm wondering
>>>> >> what is available or suggested to use to place a better electrical
>>>> >> isolation for a battery backup in the box on the tower.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> We're using two ubiquiti radios one cheap ubiquiti router and a
>>>> Cisco
>>>> >> fiber to ether-net router.  We have a cyberpower 450va that provides
>>>> >> power for less than an hour when we have a power outage. It would be
>>>> >> better if we could use something more hefty.  The NEMA box is 2ft x
>>>> >> 2ft x 8in.  Inside is 2ft x 2ft x 6in.  So there isn't much room.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I'm thinking maybe a stack of batteries, a charger and a sine-wave
>>>> >> invertor?  Unless someone knows of a product that would do what's
>>>> >> needed?
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> AF mailing list
>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
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>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>
>>> --
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>>>
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[AFMUG] Direct bury tracer wire reccomendations/experience.

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

I'm working on doing specs for a project (home) which will require burying
new water and sewer lines on the property.

I'm tired of not being able to locate these after they're buried so I plan
on having the contractor bury some tracer wire along with the plumbing.

I've learned that the best option for things like this is to either spec or
provide exactly what I want buried.   Otherwise you'll end up with some
inexperienced contractor which installs something which won't work.

Apparently the choices for tracer wire are far more varied than I had
expected.  Insulation,  metal type, gauge, color, and so on.

It looks like 14AWG copper HMWPE might be what I'm looking for.  But there
are other options as well.Does any of this work better or is less (or
more) likely to be damaged in a way which makes it untraceable?  I'm
assuming green and blue will be needed for sewer and water.

I don't think the following will apply, but there is also the possibility
that at least one of the lines won't terminate at one end anywhere that we
can poke the wire up above the ground (tapping into existing line) I'm
assuming that one can resolve this by laying a ground rod in the trench and
terminating to that.

Any other things I should watch for here?
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] backup power for small tower

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Agreed.   And if it's on the ethernet side, just adding some ferrite chokes
to the power line might fix the problem.   Or switching to shielded cable.

On Mon, Jan 9, 2023, 7:52 AM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Step 1 is to figure out where your packet loss is coming from.  If it's
> interference on the RF side, changing to a DC plant is a complete waste of
> time/money.
>
> On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 9:21 AM  wrote:
>
>> Usually when people say "DC plant" they mean a rectifier.  A charger +
>> inverter like you proposed would probably also count as having DC power
>> plant.
>> I used one of these once:
>> https://www.aimscorp.net/12-Volt-Pure-Sine-Inverter-Chargers/
>> Worked fine, but no remote management.  I'm sure there are a dozen
>> options out there to pick from.
>>
>> An isolation transformer might be a less intrusive change.  Tripp Lite
>> makes some affordable ones.  On the trip lite ones I had the hot and
>> neutral were isolated, but the ground passed straight through.  Depending
>> on where the noise is coming from that might not fix it, but you can test
>> an isolated ground by snapping off the ground prong on the transformer or
>> using a 2-prong adapter.  I say "test" because you shouldn't run without a
>> ground permanently.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Jan-GAMs
>> Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2023 3:41 PM
>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] backup power for small tower
>>
>> It's in a parking-lot of a business and they started plugging their food
>> truck into the power-source.  So what do you mean by "DC plant"?
>>
>> On 1/8/23 12:20, Bill Prince wrote:
>> > If your site is 100% DC-powered, the batteries should provide all the
>> > isolation you need. My suggestion is to just switch to DC plant.
>> >
>> >
>> > bp
>> > 
>> >
>> > On 1/8/2023 11:21 AM, Jan-GAMs wrote:
>> >> Ever since a food truck started plugging their truck into the same
>> >> power source we use we've been experiencing severe packet loss
>> >> through it.  Possibly electrical motor-hum?  Anyway, I'm wondering
>> >> what is available or suggested to use to place a better electrical
>> >> isolation for a battery backup in the box on the tower.
>> >>
>> >> We're using two ubiquiti radios one cheap ubiquiti router and a Cisco
>> >> fiber to ether-net router.  We have a cyberpower 450va that provides
>> >> power for less than an hour when we have a power outage. It would be
>> >> better if we could use something more hefty.  The NEMA box is 2ft x
>> >> 2ft x 8in.  Inside is 2ft x 2ft x 6in.  So there isn't much room.
>> >>
>> >> I'm thinking maybe a stack of batteries, a charger and a sine-wave
>> >> invertor?  Unless someone knows of a product that would do what's
>> >> needed?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT pie

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

With epipen for me.   Or at least a big dose of antihistamine.

And it's pee con.  Or more "pee cahn",


On Wed, Dec 21, 2022, 4:17 PM James Howard  wrote:

> With chocolate chips?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 21, 2022 4:24 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT pie
>
>
>
> Ding ding ding
>
>
>
> *From:* Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 21, 2022 2:36 PM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT pie
>
>
>
> Puh Con
>
>
>
>
>
> Jim Bouse
> Owner - Brazos WiFi
> 979-999-7000
> http://www.brazoswifi.com
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 21, 2022 3:31 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT pie
>
>
>
> Puh Can
>
> Puh Con
>
> Pee Can
>
> Pee Con
>
>
>
> ?
> --
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor DC Distribution

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

No, the maximum official size is 16AWG which is good for 12A.   If you're
looking at bringing it up the tower, I'd recommend using a transition
terminal block that can handle whatever size wire you're bringing in, and
then run a smaller one to the pdu.   Bonus reliability points if you use
ferrules on the 16AWG wire (assuming stranded wire here).

And, yes, each of the 5 ports have fast overcurrent protection which will,
in most cases, shut one port down and leave the others running.  The "most
cases" is the hedge which covers things like the power supply you're
powering the whole thing from having faster overcurrent protection than
ours.   And cases where the short circuit causes enough of a power supply
blip to cause everything else to reset due to the sudden voltage drop in
the short period before the overcurrent protection kicks in.


On Fri, Nov 18, 2022 at 8:46 AM Nate Burke  wrote:

> Can the terminal block handle 12AWG wire?   If one of the outputs shorts,
> does that take the entire PDU offline, or is there internal limiting with
> the 3A per port.
>
> On 11/18/2022 6:57 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>
> The packetflux base 3 is similar in the context of it having similar i/o
> possibilities.  Â
>
> The main difference is that the tycon product is fixed function, so as
> long as you can monitor exactly what you want with it, it will work for
> you.   If you want a different set of i/o then you're SOL.
>
> I also would caution anyone passing current through the tycon product to
> be mindful that the terminal blocks they use may not be able to handle what
> they specify as a maximum current on a continuous basis.  Typically those
> types of connectors are rated at 12 or 15A and they say they can do 20A.Â
> I'm hopeful that they have bought special connectors to handle 20A, but
> even if they didn't they should be able to handle short periods of 20A.Â
>
> The packetflux Base 3 has evolved quite a bit from the early days,
> although there are still some limitations due to us wanting the current
> version to be drop in compatible with the previous version.   But some of
> the updates make this more useful at a wisp DC site.   For instance, the
> base 3 and most of the power distribution or injection models will handle
> both positive and negative power, at a much wider range than most units.Â
> So you can use both +24V and -48V to power it up at the same time.Â
>
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2022, 11:11 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> Nice.  Good price too.  What does Forrest have that is similar?
>> Â
>> *From:* Jason Wilson
>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 17, 2022 10:34 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor DC Distribution
>> Â
>> I'm just starting to use these for some VERY remote sites.Â
>> Â
>> https://www.tyconsystems.com/tpdin-monitor-web3
>>
>> Jason Wilson
>> Remotely Located
>> Critical Infrastructure Service Provider
>> Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
>> 530-651-1736
>> 530-748-9608 Cell
>> www.remotelylocated.com
>> Â
>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2022, 09:31  wrote:
>>
>>> I've used the PDU at the bottom of the tower.  My only complaint at the
>>> time
>>> was the character limit on port description.  I think it was 11
>>> characters
>>> or some suchI had to come up with some cryptic abbreviations when I
>>> really wanted to say "Power to Telrad Compact 1000 - 270 azimuth".  I
>>> think
>>> they were talking about fixing that in a future version of the base unit,
>>> but I haven't used any packetflux lately so I don't know if that's still
>>> an
>>> issue or not.  If you're powering 100W radios then you'd be limited to
>>> 3 per
>>> PDU.  A fourth radio would put you over the 8A total.  That wasn't an
>>> issue
>>> in my deployment, but if you're planning 4+ sectors per tower then that's
>>> something to be aware of.  Next problem is wire gauge.  Anything
>>> bigger than
>>> 14ga is gonna have trouble squeezing into the connector on the packet
>>> flux
>>> PDU.  Voltage drop on 48V /8A with 14ga is going to be pretty severe at
>>> 300ft, but if the tower is short then it's probably ok.  I was
>>> deploying on
>>> 70ft poles, and we ran 16ga up to each radio so it was acceptable, but
>>> feeding the 8A input on the packetflux PDU on a taller site could be an
>>> issue.
>>>
>>> In any case I'd advise separate cables.  I know it seems wasteful, but
>>> you
>>> can have any tower dude climb up there and put t

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor DC Distribution

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Yes, both in the DIN rail/sitemonitor form factor (1 8AMP input, 5 3A max
outputs), and the Rackinjector form factor (any of the 4 cards positions
can be populated with a PDU card, which means the rackinjector can have 0
to 16 PDU ports).


On Fri, Nov 18, 2022 at 6:33 AM Gino A. Villarini  wrote:

> Forrest, do you offer a PDU unit?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <https://aeronetpr.com> *Gino Villarini*
> Founder / President
> @GVillarini
> 787.273.4143 |
> <https://www.inc.com/profile/aeronet> <https://www.facebook.com/aeronetpr>
> <https://www.instagram.com/aeronetpr/>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/aeronet-broadband-corp>
> <https://twitter.com/aeronetpr> <https://www.youtube.com/user/AeroNetPR>
> <https://wa.me/17872734143> <https://wa.me/17872734144>
> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968
> <https://homefi.pr> <https://homefi.pr> <https://homefi.pr>
> <https://homefi.pr>
> <https://homefi.pr>
>
> *From: *AF  on behalf of Forrest Christian (List
> Account) 
> *Date: *Friday, November 18, 2022 at 8:31 AM
> *To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor DC Distribution
>
> The PDU and other modules appear as separate ports.  See
> https://store.packetflux.com/sitemonitor-base-3-classic-edition/ for an
> image of that page.
>
>
>
> I think the limit is now 64 characters.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2022, 10:30 AM  wrote:
>
> I've used the PDU at the bottom of the tower.  My only complaint at the
> time
> was the character limit on port description.  I think it was 11 characters
> or some suchI had to come up with some cryptic abbreviations when I
> really wanted to say "Power to Telrad Compact 1000 - 270 azimuth".  I think
> they were talking about fixing that in a future version of the base unit,
> but I haven't used any packetflux lately so I don't know if that's still an
> issue or not.  If you're powering 100W radios then you'd be limited to 3
> per
> PDU.  A fourth radio would put you over the 8A total.  That wasn't an issue
> in my deployment, but if you're planning 4+ sectors per tower then that's
> something to be aware of.  Next problem is wire gauge.  Anything bigger
> than
> 14ga is gonna have trouble squeezing into the connector on the packet flux
> PDU.  Voltage drop on 48V /8A with 14ga is going to be pretty severe at
> 300ft, but if the tower is short then it's probably ok.  I was deploying on
> 70ft poles, and we ran 16ga up to each radio so it was acceptable, but
> feeding the 8A input on the packetflux PDU on a taller site could be an
> issue.
>
> In any case I'd advise separate cables.  I know it seems wasteful, but you
> can have any tower dude climb up there and put the green plug into the
> green
> hole.  If you want the tower climber to strip and terminate DC cables then
> you'd have to be careful who you send up there.  If you're dead set on a
> single power run then something with built in breakers is a good idea.
> Packetflux PDU would fit that bill.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Nate Burke
> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2022 11:48 AM
> To: Animal Farm 
> Subject: [AFMUG] Outdoor DC Distribution
>
> Mikrotik makes a nice outdoor fiber switch with a handfull of 10G ports.
> Does anyone make something similar for DC Distribution?  Run a single power
> cable up a tower and DC to multiple radios?  I'm thinking like 3 or 4
> licensed radios each needing 2 wire DC input and 10G fiber.
> Rather than running individual power wires for each one.  I've used a UBNT
> Edgepoint S16, taking the 56v POE Output ports, and running them through
> the
> MCT GIGE-POE to extract 2wire power to run to the radio.
> But that's extra pieces needing a place to be mounted.
>
> Would the Site Monitor 5 channel PDU fit the bill?  IT says 3A per channel,
> and 8A total.  So in theory that should be able to provide about 140w per
> radio.  Could put it in some sort of NEMA with a DIN mount.  The
> Sitemonitor
> base is hardened, would the PDU be as well?
>
> Are there other options?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
- Forrest
-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor DC Distribution

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

The packetflux base 3 is similar in the context of it having similar i/o
possibilities.

The main difference is that the tycon product is fixed function, so as long
as you can monitor exactly what you want with it, it will work for you.
 If you want a different set of i/o then you're SOL.

I also would caution anyone passing current through the tycon product to be
mindful that the terminal blocks they use may not be able to handle what
they specify as a maximum current on a continuous basis.  Typically those
types of connectors are rated at 12 or 15A and they say they can do 20A.
I'm hopeful that they have bought special connectors to handle 20A, but
even if they didn't they should be able to handle short periods of 20A.

The packetflux Base 3 has evolved quite a bit from the early days, although
there are still some limitations due to us wanting the current version to
be drop in compatible with the previous version.   But some of the updates
make this more useful at a wisp DC site.   For instance, the base 3 and
most of the power distribution or injection models will handle both
positive and negative power, at a much wider range than most units.  So you
can use both +24V and -48V to power it up at the same time.

On Thu, Nov 17, 2022, 11:11 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Nice.  Good price too.  What does Forrest have that is similar?
>
> *From:* Jason Wilson
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 17, 2022 10:34 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor DC Distribution
>
> I'm just starting to use these for some VERY remote sites.
>
> https://www.tyconsystems.com/tpdin-monitor-web3
>
> Jason Wilson
> Remotely Located
> Critical Infrastructure Service Provider
> Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
> 530-651-1736
> 530-748-9608 Cell
> www.remotelylocated.com
>
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2022, 09:31  wrote:
>
>> I've used the PDU at the bottom of the tower.  My only complaint at the
>> time
>> was the character limit on port description.  I think it was 11 characters
>> or some suchI had to come up with some cryptic abbreviations when I
>> really wanted to say "Power to Telrad Compact 1000 - 270 azimuth".  I
>> think
>> they were talking about fixing that in a future version of the base unit,
>> but I haven't used any packetflux lately so I don't know if that's still
>> an
>> issue or not.  If you're powering 100W radios then you'd be limited to 3
>> per
>> PDU.  A fourth radio would put you over the 8A total.  That wasn't an
>> issue
>> in my deployment, but if you're planning 4+ sectors per tower then that's
>> something to be aware of.  Next problem is wire gauge.  Anything bigger
>> than
>> 14ga is gonna have trouble squeezing into the connector on the packet flux
>> PDU.  Voltage drop on 48V /8A with 14ga is going to be pretty severe at
>> 300ft, but if the tower is short then it's probably ok.  I was deploying
>> on
>> 70ft poles, and we ran 16ga up to each radio so it was acceptable, but
>> feeding the 8A input on the packetflux PDU on a taller site could be an
>> issue.
>>
>> In any case I'd advise separate cables.  I know it seems wasteful, but you
>> can have any tower dude climb up there and put the green plug into the
>> green
>> hole.  If you want the tower climber to strip and terminate DC cables then
>> you'd have to be careful who you send up there.  If you're dead set on a
>> single power run then something with built in breakers is a good idea.
>> Packetflux PDU would fit that bill.
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Nate Burke
>> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2022 11:48 AM
>> To: Animal Farm 
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Outdoor DC Distribution
>>
>> Mikrotik makes a nice outdoor fiber switch with a handfull of 10G ports.
>> Does anyone make something similar for DC Distribution?  Run a single
>> power
>> cable up a tower and DC to multiple radios?  I'm thinking like 3 or 4
>> licensed radios each needing 2 wire DC input and 10G fiber.
>> Rather than running individual power wires for each one.  I've used a UBNT
>> Edgepoint S16, taking the 56v POE Output ports, and running them through
>> the
>> MCT GIGE-POE to extract 2wire power to run to the radio.
>> But that's extra pieces needing a place to be mounted.
>>
>> Would the Site Monitor 5 channel PDU fit the bill?  IT says 3A per
>> channel,
>> and 8A total.  So in theory that should be able to provide about 140w per
>> radio.  Could put it in some sort of NEMA with a DIN mount.  The
>> Sitemonitor
>> base is hardened, would the PDU be as well?
>>
>> Are there other options?
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor DC Distribution

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

The PDU and other modules appear as separate ports.  See
https://store.packetflux.com/sitemonitor-base-3-classic-edition/ for an
image of that page.

I think the limit is now 64 characters.


On Thu, Nov 17, 2022, 10:30 AM  wrote:

> I've used the PDU at the bottom of the tower.  My only complaint at the
> time
> was the character limit on port description.  I think it was 11 characters
> or some suchI had to come up with some cryptic abbreviations when I
> really wanted to say "Power to Telrad Compact 1000 - 270 azimuth".  I think
> they were talking about fixing that in a future version of the base unit,
> but I haven't used any packetflux lately so I don't know if that's still an
> issue or not.  If you're powering 100W radios then you'd be limited to 3
> per
> PDU.  A fourth radio would put you over the 8A total.  That wasn't an issue
> in my deployment, but if you're planning 4+ sectors per tower then that's
> something to be aware of.  Next problem is wire gauge.  Anything bigger
> than
> 14ga is gonna have trouble squeezing into the connector on the packet flux
> PDU.  Voltage drop on 48V /8A with 14ga is going to be pretty severe at
> 300ft, but if the tower is short then it's probably ok.  I was deploying on
> 70ft poles, and we ran 16ga up to each radio so it was acceptable, but
> feeding the 8A input on the packetflux PDU on a taller site could be an
> issue.
>
> In any case I'd advise separate cables.  I know it seems wasteful, but you
> can have any tower dude climb up there and put the green plug into the
> green
> hole.  If you want the tower climber to strip and terminate DC cables then
> you'd have to be careful who you send up there.  If you're dead set on a
> single power run then something with built in breakers is a good idea.
> Packetflux PDU would fit that bill.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Nate Burke
> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2022 11:48 AM
> To: Animal Farm 
> Subject: [AFMUG] Outdoor DC Distribution
>
> Mikrotik makes a nice outdoor fiber switch with a handfull of 10G ports.
> Does anyone make something similar for DC Distribution?  Run a single power
> cable up a tower and DC to multiple radios?  I'm thinking like 3 or 4
> licensed radios each needing 2 wire DC input and 10G fiber.
> Rather than running individual power wires for each one.  I've used a UBNT
> Edgepoint S16, taking the 56v POE Output ports, and running them through
> the
> MCT GIGE-POE to extract 2wire power to run to the radio.
> But that's extra pieces needing a place to be mounted.
>
> Would the Site Monitor 5 channel PDU fit the bill?  IT says 3A per channel,
> and 8A total.  So in theory that should be able to provide about 140w per
> radio.  Could put it in some sort of NEMA with a DIN mount.  The
> Sitemonitor
> base is hardened, would the PDU be as well?
>
> Are there other options?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor DC Distribution

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Everything we sell is temperature hardened and this is a pretty common
application...  a sitemonitor base 3 and a PDU together.

On Thu, Nov 17, 2022, 9:50 AM Nate Burke  wrote:

> Mikrotik makes a nice outdoor fiber switch with a handfull of 10G
> ports.  Does anyone make something similar for DC Distribution?  Run a
> single power cable up a tower and DC to multiple radios?  I'm thinking
> like 3 or 4 licensed radios each needing 2 wire DC input and 10G fiber.
> Rather than running individual power wires for each one.  I've used a
> UBNT Edgepoint S16, taking the 56v POE Output ports, and running them
> through the MCT GIGE-POE to extract 2wire power to run to the radio.
> But that's extra pieces needing a place to be mounted.
>
> Would the Site Monitor 5 channel PDU fit the bill?  IT says 3A per
> channel, and 8A total.  So in theory that should be able to provide
> about 140w per radio.  Could put it in some sort of NEMA with a DIN
> mount.  The Sitemonitor base is hardened, would the PDU be as well?
>
> Are there other options?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Solar panel ice/snow buildup

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Yeah, don't let an installer set them for max energy over a year like they
would for grid tie.Optimize them for the worst winter day.

On Sat, Nov 12, 2022, 1:17 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> That is close to what we used at the 37th parallel. We set our panels at
> 60 degrees. That gave us close to maximum sun at the winter solstice, and
> we still had excess energy during the summer months. The summer sun is long
> enough and strong enough that you don't need the panels pointed straight at
> the sun. In the winter time you  need all the help you can get.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 11/12/2022 12:43 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:
>
> In addition to froth-pak, be sure to tilt them at [latitude] + 23.5.
>
> We are at 40 north so we tilt the panels at about 65*
>
> 40 + 23.5 = 63.5*
>
> At that angle when there’s any amount of direct sunlight it slides pretty
> quick.
>
> But we also have a propane generator on-site because the stars don’t
> always align just right :-/
>
> -Sean
>
> On Fri, Nov 11, 2022 at 3:02 PM James Howard  wrote:
>
>> I have a vague memory of a thread in bygone years about testing different
>> kinds of coatings to help with buildup of snow/ice but I can’t find the
>> thread and don’t remember if it was about solar panels or dish antennas.
>>
>>
>>
>> The only thing I can find when I search my archive is about using
>> froth-pak on the back of the panels.  Are there any other options that work?
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> Sean Heskett
>
> ZIRKEL
> Internet • WiFi • Phone • TV
> 970-871-8500 x100 - Office
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT youtube

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Make sure you check out "this old tony"


On Sun, Nov 6, 2022, 8:34 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> I have to search for math and science stuff on YouTube to get it to stop
> with so much political crap.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 6, 2022, at 8:16 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
> 
> The key is figuring out how to limit amplification of what should be
> fringe ideas.  It's OK for the fringe ideas to exist on the platform.
>  It's not ok for them to be amplified beyond their worth.
>
> The problem today is that fringe ideas tend to be retweeted a lot more
> than Mainstream ideas as the extreme is a lot less boring than the middle.
>
> Another problem seems to be the recency bias of some of these algorithms.
>  Youtube is far more likely to recommend something related to something I
> watched recently than something from my subscription list.  This makes it
> really easy to fall into a trap where you're only being recommended videos
> which fall into a specific viewpoint.
>
> On Sun, Nov 6, 2022, 4:54 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> From where I sit, it looks like it is going to become a fetid hell pit.
>>
>> Anyone who might have tried to manage disinformation has been shown the
>> door. It will get much, much worse before it had any chance of getting
>> better.
>>
>> You can buy legitimacy for $8 a month.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 11/6/2022 4:26 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>>
>> I like that it seem they are attempting to control phony accounts.  But I
>> really don’t use it so I don’t care about it much. Cofefe.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Nov 6, 2022, at 5:10 PM, Robert 
>>  wrote:
>>
>>  He fired everyone on the algorithm teams...
>>
>> On 11/6/22 3:22 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>>
>> One more thing..   if there is one thing musk's twitter acquisition
>> accomplishes, I hope that it is that the algorithm is adjusted such that it
>> is far harder to end up in your own personal echo chamber.
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 5, 2022, 2:05 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>>
>>> So, new computer, finally got icons displaying (My son has it set up so
>>> he can take over my computer from everywhere and fix whatever this old dad
>>> cannot figure out, love it).
>>>
>>> Youtube viewed with new chrome on a new computer has quickly figured out
>>> that I like to watch Ben Shapiro and Charlie Kirk gotcha videos and is
>>> recommending nothing else other than right wing gotcha stuff.  It is
>>> amusing, but I am wondering what does the other side look like?  Is there a
>>> whole alternate youtube universe of leftist gotcha videos that make fun of
>>> Ben Shapiro and push all the left hot button issues.  lgbtq trans, crt,
>>> BLM, defund the police, etc stuff 100% of the time etc.
>>>
>>> Is youtube just right leaning?
>>>
>>> Or is there no cogent left leaning content on par with a Ben Shapiro
>>> type of thing?
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
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Re: [AFMUG] OT youtube

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

The key is figuring out how to limit amplification of what should be fringe
ideas.  It's OK for the fringe ideas to exist on the platform.   It's not
ok for them to be amplified beyond their worth.

The problem today is that fringe ideas tend to be retweeted a lot more than
Mainstream ideas as the extreme is a lot less boring than the middle.

Another problem seems to be the recency bias of some of these algorithms.
 Youtube is far more likely to recommend something related to something I
watched recently than something from my subscription list.  This makes it
really easy to fall into a trap where you're only being recommended videos
which fall into a specific viewpoint.

On Sun, Nov 6, 2022, 4:54 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> From where I sit, it looks like it is going to become a fetid hell pit.
>
> Anyone who might have tried to manage disinformation has been shown the
> door. It will get much, much worse before it had any chance of getting
> better.
>
> You can buy legitimacy for $8 a month.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 11/6/2022 4:26 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>
> I like that it seem they are attempting to control phony accounts.  But I
> really don’t use it so I don’t care about it much. Cofefe.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 6, 2022, at 5:10 PM, Robert 
>  wrote:
>
>  He fired everyone on the algorithm teams...
>
> On 11/6/22 3:22 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>
> One more thing..   if there is one thing musk's twitter acquisition
> accomplishes, I hope that it is that the algorithm is adjusted such that it
> is far harder to end up in your own personal echo chamber.
>
> On Sat, Nov 5, 2022, 2:05 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
>> So, new computer, finally got icons displaying (My son has it set up so
>> he can take over my computer from everywhere and fix whatever this old dad
>> cannot figure out, love it).
>>
>> Youtube viewed with new chrome on a new computer has quickly figured out
>> that I like to watch Ben Shapiro and Charlie Kirk gotcha videos and is
>> recommending nothing else other than right wing gotcha stuff.  It is
>> amusing, but I am wondering what does the other side look like?  Is there a
>> whole alternate youtube universe of leftist gotcha videos that make fun of
>> Ben Shapiro and push all the left hot button issues.  lgbtq trans, crt,
>> BLM, defund the police, etc stuff 100% of the time etc.
>>
>> Is youtube just right leaning?
>>
>> Or is there no cogent left leaning content on par with a Ben Shapiro type
>> of thing?
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Re: [AFMUG] OT youtube

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

One more thing..   if there is one thing musk's twitter acquisition
accomplishes, I hope that it is that the algorithm is adjusted such that it
is far harder to end up in your own personal echo chamber.

On Sat, Nov 5, 2022, 2:05 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> So, new computer, finally got icons displaying (My son has it set up so he
> can take over my computer from everywhere and fix whatever this old dad
> cannot figure out, love it).
>
> Youtube viewed with new chrome on a new computer has quickly figured out
> that I like to watch Ben Shapiro and Charlie Kirk gotcha videos and is
> recommending nothing else other than right wing gotcha stuff.  It is
> amusing, but I am wondering what does the other side look like?  Is there a
> whole alternate youtube universe of leftist gotcha videos that make fun of
> Ben Shapiro and push all the left hot button issues.  lgbtq trans, crt,
> BLM, defund the police, etc stuff 100% of the time etc.
>
> Is youtube just right leaning?
>
> Or is there no cogent left leaning content on par with a Ben Shapiro type
> of thing?
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] OT youtube

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Start with the young turks (tyt) and beau of the fifth column.  YouTube
will recommend others.   Most of the left media largely consists of
pointing out the ridiculousness of the right.BTW I'd put beau in a
different category altogether although he leans left.

My YouTube gleefully recommends tyt and others right beside Ben Shapiro and
all of the other right wing channels.  And there are some on both sides I
can't stand and some I largely agree with.



On Sat, Nov 5, 2022, 2:05 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> So, new computer, finally got icons displaying (My son has it set up so he
> can take over my computer from everywhere and fix whatever this old dad
> cannot figure out, love it).
>
> Youtube viewed with new chrome on a new computer has quickly figured out
> that I like to watch Ben Shapiro and Charlie Kirk gotcha videos and is
> recommending nothing else other than right wing gotcha stuff.  It is
> amusing, but I am wondering what does the other side look like?  Is there a
> whole alternate youtube universe of leftist gotcha videos that make fun of
> Ben Shapiro and push all the left hot button issues.  lgbtq trans, crt,
> BLM, defund the police, etc stuff 100% of the time etc.
>
> Is youtube just right leaning?
>
> Or is there no cogent left leaning content on par with a Ben Shapiro type
> of thing?
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Vanilla Extract

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Isn't the correct way to take a vacation to Mexico or Madagascar and
smuggle a bottle back into the US?

More seriously, I tend to buy this type of stuff at either a good
kitchen/cooking store (sur la table) or the local natural food stores, or
at Costco depending on what it is.For vanilla I'd lean towards Costco
and the food stores.

If you're not scared off by price, Nielsen-Massey Pure Vanilla Extract (the
bourbon variety) is awesome.   But I generally buy whatever real extract
costco is selling...

On Thu, Oct 20, 2022, 10:45 AM Nate Burke  wrote:

> I'm guessing many people on here dabble in the baking arts.  My Bottle
> of Rodelle Vanilla Extract that I got several years ago has run out.
> Some of the more recent reviews for Rodelle say that it's watered down
> now.  All sites that I've viewed say that McCormick has changed their
> formula and it's just no good anymore.  Watkins looks to have pretty
> good reviews, and costs about 30% more than McCormick.  Amazon has good
> selection, but alot of the reviews say they might be counterfeit products.
>
> Anyone bought some Vanilla extract recently and can offer a review?
>
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Re: [AFMUG] VMware question

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

I'm finding proxmox enjoyable to run and either free or almost free
depending on what level of support you want.

On Tue, Oct 18, 2022, 7:30 AM Steven Kenney via AF  wrote:

> Always funny seeing others dealing with Vmware with buyers remorse.  I was
> in your spot.  I HATE Vmware on their business and licensing side.  It is
> why I dumped them.  They made things so complicated and absurd they screwed
> themselves out of the continuation of our support and service contract.
> Nothing but headaches, overpayment and lack of flexibility.  They screw the
> little guys full bore.
>
> I went through this - You need to swap to Vmware "standard" (at minimum)
> licenses and ante up much more to separate into vcenter and individual
> licenses and add them as you add servers.  Per processor etc price will go
> up.
>
> On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 12:41 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies <
> m...@mailmt.com> wrote:
>
>> I bought vSphere 7 essentials a few months ago.  Have it all setup.  Have
>> 3 host licensed.
>>
>> I just spun up a 4th host.  I can not figure out how to get a license for
>> a single host to add to vCenter.  All I keep finding is the bundles.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Thanks,
>>  Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>>
>> Myakka Communications
>> www.Myakka.com
>>
>>
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>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

So I can explain this chart simply..

The far right argues that we spend too much time on things like gender and
race in school, so those regularly exposed to that argument are naturally
going to argue that we need to 'spend less time on gender and race and more
time on traditional studies like math and science"

The far left seems to think that people need to be more aware about race
and other forms of equality like the whole gender politics thing.So
they're obviously going to consider that we need to provide more teaching
about it in school.

My opinion is that both parties have an extreme wing that they need to
shed.  Specifically the ones on the right which seems to want to move
towards an authoritarian regime with them in charge, and the ones on the
left which is hard to define but seems to be an odd mix of communism and
forced equality.

The problem is that after years of demonizing the other side, each party
needs their extreme wing to be able to win elections.


On Fri, Oct 7, 2022, 2:33 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> The question was as follows:
>
> “Do you think schools today spend too much, the right amount or too little
> time teaching about the following topics:”
>
> I don’t consider that an ultra inflammatory question.
> The source is as follows:
> The American Family Survey 2022.  It conducted online to a match sample on
> gender, race, age and education Aug. 8-15, 2022.  The sample size is 3,000
> and the overall margin of error is +- 1.9%.
>
>
> There is an ultra liberal college up near Olympia Wa.  Evergreen State
> College.  They actually have a faction that teaches that you cannot trust
> science because it teaches concepts that are counter to postmodernism.  The
> extreme left has embraced a fiction that does not stand up to scientific
> scrutiny.  So the extreme left and the extreme right both don’t trust
> science, but for different reasons.
>
> So an ultra liberal might also say, we reject the science of statistics
> and samples and surveys because they just make up imaginary numbers...
> right [image: Winking smile]‘'
>
> In other words, if you don’t believe the results of a survey (or an
> election, which really is also a survey) you just reject it out of hand,
> don’t believe it, it is flawed... ???
>
> *From:* dmmoff...@gmail.com
> *Sent:* Friday, October 7, 2022 11:57 AM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Cc:* 'Chuck McCown'
> *Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] OT Political
>
>
> Interesting.
>
>
>
> I would think nearly 99% of people would think “Math” and “Science” should
> be taught in school, so there must be some kind of relative ranking to come
> up with those percentages.  I don’t believe for a minute that only a bare
> majority of any political party thinks science is important.
>
>
>
> I’d also guess there was some colorful to the phrasing of the survey
> questions.  If they asked “Should students be taught to respect people of
> all races” the percentages would be high across the board.  You’d have to
> phrase it in some inflammatory way to get that spread.
>
>
>
> Anyway it’s cute, but I have questions about the methodology used to come
> up with those numbers.  I wonder if the methodology is “let’s make up an
> imaginary number”.
>
>
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Friday, October 07, 2022 12:03 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT Political
>
>
>
> Been too quiet around here.  Thought I would try to ignite another
> brushfire.
>
>
>
> This graphic explains America and what is wrong with it.
>
> Asked of all Americans what is important to be taught at school.
>
>
>
> [image: image]
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT pronouns

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Apparently if you're a student teacher you get marked down for saying "you
guys" to a group of  guys.

On Thu, Oct 6, 2022, 3:17 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> I imagine the worst venue for this is if you were teaching college.  I
> think I would just use their names.  I would prefer to say Mr Howard and Mr
> Christian but I am certain that is stepping in a pile of poo too.  Mr and
> Ms are possibly verboten now?  I am wholly out of it when it comes to these
> things.
>
> *From:* James Howard
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 6, 2022 3:27 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT pronouns
>
>
> Seems like it would be much simpler to just refer to everyone the same
> way.  If you’re talking about someone who isn’t around you can just say
> “that idiot” when referring to him/her/it/he/she and “those idiots” instead
> of they/them.  Much cleaner that way.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Forrest Christian
> (List Account)
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 6, 2022 4:14 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT pronouns
>
>
>
> I heard an admittedly right wing commenter describe it this way..
>
>
>
> You rarely use a gendered pronoun when talking to someone.You use
> their name or "you".You only use the gendered pronouns when they aren't
> around.
>
>
>
> So people asking you to use their preferred pronoun are asking you to
> change the way you refer to them when they aren't even around.
>
>
>
> Now, there are some people who I've met that use the "they" pronoun and I
> will say that neither of the gendered pronouns really apply to them and
> "they" is much more appropriate.
>
>
>
> It's the people who are obviously a specific gender and dress and behave
> like that gender that demand you refer to them using the opposite pronouns
> that drive me nuts.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 6, 2022, 12:11 PM Carl Peterson 
> wrote:
>
> I don't really care what gender you want to be, or even no gender but I'm
> never saying "they is"  I will just refer to them by their name.  Sam is
> going to the store.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 6, 2022 at 12:56 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
> Phew. Glad I'm exempted.
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
> On 10/6/2022 10:53 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>
> BTW, boomers get a pass on all this complaining
>
>
>
> *From:* Chuck McCown via AF
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 6, 2022 11:51 AM
>
> *To:* Darin Steffl ; AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT pronouns
>
>
>
> Just a way to classify the woke vs the unwoke.
>
> Forcing a weird and unnatural change in language.
>
> They/them/theirs are all plural.   Third person plural.  Adds confusion.
>
> Some languages do not genderize pronouns.  Everyone is it or its.
>
> But here you would offend someone by calling them it.
>
>
>
> *From:* Darin Steffl
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 6, 2022 11:23 AM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT pronouns
>
>
>
> Why does this bother you? It's just an email signature.
>
>
>
> I don't list my pronouns anywhere, and have no desire to, but I'm
> certainly not offended or angered when I see someone list them in their
> email.
>
>
>
> Live and let live
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 6, 2022 at 10:16 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
> Got my first email where the sender listed their pronouns.
> It was from the clerk of the Utah court of appeals.
> She/Her/Hers
>
> I hope this does not become a thing.
>
> --
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>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Darin Steffl
>
> Minnesota WiFi
>
> www.mnwifi.com
>
> 507-634-WiFi
>
> Like us on Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT pronouns

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

I heard an admittedly right wing commenter describe it this way..

You rarely use a gendered pronoun when talking to someone.You use their
name or "you".You only use the gendered pronouns when they aren't
around.

So people asking you to use their preferred pronoun are asking you to
change the way you refer to them when they aren't even around.

Now, there are some people who I've met that use the "they" pronoun and I
will say that neither of the gendered pronouns really apply to them and
"they" is much more appropriate.

It's the people who are obviously a specific gender and dress and behave
like that gender that demand you refer to them using the opposite pronouns
that drive me nuts.

On Thu, Oct 6, 2022, 12:11 PM Carl Peterson 
wrote:

> I don't really care what gender you want to be, or even no gender but I'm
> never saying "they is"  I will just refer to them by their name.  Sam is
> going to the store.
>
> On Thu, Oct 6, 2022 at 12:56 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> Phew. Glad I'm exempted.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 10/6/2022 10:53 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>>
>> BTW, boomers get a pass on all this complaining
>>
>> *From:* Chuck McCown via AF
>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 6, 2022 11:51 AM
>> *To:* Darin Steffl ; AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT pronouns
>>
>> Just a way to classify the woke vs the unwoke.
>> Forcing a weird and unnatural change in language.
>> They/them/theirs are all plural.   Third person plural.  Adds confusion.
>> Some languages do not genderize pronouns.  Everyone is it or its.
>> But here you would offend someone by calling them it.
>>
>> *From:* Darin Steffl
>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 6, 2022 11:23 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT pronouns
>>
>> Why does this bother you? It's just an email signature.
>>
>> I don't list my pronouns anywhere, and have no desire to, but I'm
>> certainly not offended or angered when I see someone list them in their
>> email.
>>
>> Live and let live
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 6, 2022 at 10:16 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Got my first email where the sender listed their pronouns.
>>> It was from the clerk of the Utah court of appeals.
>>> She/Her/Hers
>>>
>>> I hope this does not become a thing.
>>>
>>> --
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>> Minnesota WiFi
>> www.mnwifi.com
>> 507-634-WiFi
>> Like us on Facebook 
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Datacenter power submetering

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

The meters don't necessarily need to be owned by the utility company.

I've seen some facilities where there is a separate metered panel for each
customer fed from the main distribution panel, inside the transfer switch.
 But that seems like overkill, and gets even more complex when you decide
to provide both generator backed up and not backed up circuits.


On Sat, Oct 1, 2022, 2:50 PM Chris Fabien  wrote:

> Forrest, Thanks for the suggestion on egauge, that looks like a nice
> solution and reasonable cost.
>
> Trying to do multiple actual utility meters presented some hurdles in
> needing a PE to stamp a design, township zoning approval (several months),
> and significant timing issues from the utility who is many months behind on
> service installs and availability issues on the multi gang meter banks.
> Plus it complicates having two large standby generators to A/B power all
> the loads, I guess you need to use  seperate transfer switches for each
> customer then?
>
> Thanks,
> Chris
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 1, 2022, 4:34 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>> Many states require revenue grade metering if you're going to be metering
>> via the kwh. This can get expensive.
>>
>> One option is to calculate what the maximum your customer can draw is
>> based on 80% of the breaker size.   And charge based on that.
>>
>> 20A breaker, maximum continuous load of 16A, 16(amps) x 120(volts) x
>> 24(hours) x 30(days) / 1000(kilo) = 1,382.4kwh.  At 10c per kwh, you can
>> specify  $150/ month for this circuit, and specify a maximum continuous
>> load of 16A.
>>
>> If you're only going to have 3 or 4 tenants, I'd put a meter pack in
>> (like they have on apartments) and use real meters.  If you do it right,
>> the utility company will just handle the billing.
>>
>> If you really do want to go the per circuit metering route, look at
>> egauge.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 1, 2022, 10:43 AM Chris Fabien  wrote:
>>
>>> We are remodeling our old office building into a datacenter with 2 or 3
>>> tenants and a 2500 sqft general retail space. I want to be able to
>>> sub-meter the power on a per-circuit basis, and ideally be able to assign a
>>> group of circuits to each tenant they serve. I have seen some inexpensive
>>> solution using small current transformers in the panel but they are
>>> targeted at residential. The circuits needing to be metered will be from 20
>>> to 200A feeds. Any solutions out there like this?
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>>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Datacenter power submetering

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Many states require revenue grade metering if you're going to be metering
via the kwh. This can get expensive.

One option is to calculate what the maximum your customer can draw is based
on 80% of the breaker size.   And charge based on that.

20A breaker, maximum continuous load of 16A, 16(amps) x 120(volts) x
24(hours) x 30(days) / 1000(kilo) = 1,382.4kwh.  At 10c per kwh, you can
specify  $150/ month for this circuit, and specify a maximum continuous
load of 16A.

If you're only going to have 3 or 4 tenants, I'd put a meter pack in (like
they have on apartments) and use real meters.  If you do it right, the
utility company will just handle the billing.

If you really do want to go the per circuit metering route, look at
egauge.


On Sat, Oct 1, 2022, 10:43 AM Chris Fabien  wrote:

> We are remodeling our old office building into a datacenter with 2 or 3
> tenants and a 2500 sqft general retail space. I want to be able to
> sub-meter the power on a per-circuit basis, and ideally be able to assign a
> group of circuits to each tenant they serve. I have seen some inexpensive
> solution using small current transformers in the panel but they are
> targeted at residential. The circuits needing to be metered will be from 20
> to 200A feeds. Any solutions out there like this?
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Re: [AFMUG] Speedtest client appliance

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

$3500 might be only slightly more expensive than a modern raspberry pi
right now...

On Tue, Sep 27, 2022, 1:02 PM Mark Radabaugh  wrote:

> $3500 ish.  It’s mostly meant for a PON install tech to check light levels
> and troubleshoot installs but it has a built in Speedtest client so that it
> can run 10G ethernet tests as well.
>
> Server can be your own Speedtest.net instance or a nearby one.
>
> Mark
>
>
> Mark Radabaugh
> Amplex
> 22690 Pemberville Rd
> Luckey, OH 43443
> 419-837-5015 x 1021
> 419-261-5996 cell
> m...@amplex.net
>
>
>
> On Sep 27, 2022, at 7:46 AM, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> How much is this Veex FX120 device approximately?
>
> Do you need a server at the headend to test to?
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Mark Radabaugh
> *Sent:* Monday, September 26, 2022 5:47 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Speedtest client appliance
>
> Not in the cost category you are looking for, but also not completely out
> of line, is the Veex FX120 that will (in addition to doing a lot of other
> things) Speedtest a 10G connection.
>
> Mark
>
> Mark Radabaugh
> Amplex
> 22690 Pemberville Rd
> Luckey, OH 43443
> 419-837-5015 x 1021
> 419-261-5996 cell
> m...@amplex.net
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 23, 2022, at 5:28 PM, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> When we’re selling 1gig connections I’d like installers to have a
> definitive way to test to a full gig.  A recent Raspberry Pi can hit a full
> gig on iPerf every time.
>
> I’d love to see one of those touch screen cases on a Raspberry Pi that
> boots up and presents a big button that says “Run speedtest” and then it
> could just run iPerf in the background and put the final result on screen.
>
>
> The current strategy is to supply a “known good” laptop that we know can
> do 1gig.  But even that can be imperfect for a lot of reasons.  I’d like to
> dumb it down to stupid mode so any joker can plug in a box and push a
> button and get a test result.  If it’s more complicated to use than an
> optical power meter then it’s too complicated.
>
> Before I try and make something, does it already exist as a product?
>
> -Adam
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Electronic question

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

On a slightly similar note..

I'm considering using a raspberry pi or similar to do variable paging
messages for various "visitor" events at the manufacturing facility.   For
instance someone coming up the drive or pushing a doorbell.

Just never got beyond the doorbell and it's a lot of effort to go through
when a stock door chime works.

On Tue, Sep 6, 2022, 3:26 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> IOT, will need a web interface and must have SNMP management too.
> May as well put a screen and browser on it too.
>
> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 6, 2022 2:40 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Electronic question
>
> Hook the whole thing up to a PLC.  Lots of control then.
>
> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022, 10:18 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
>> Resistor in parallel will draw more current and perhaps allow the
>> solenoid
>> to work.  Those solenoid door bells normally use up almost all of the
>> power
>> from those class 2 transformers.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: dmmoff...@gmail.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2022 9:57 AM
>> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Electronic question
>>
>> I'm thinking V=IR so if I add resistance to the newer bell would it draw
>> more current and trigger the solenoid?  Or would the resistor just be
>> turning current into heat?
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Chris Fabien
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2022 11:41 AM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Electronic question
>>
>> I think you are correct about the cause of the issue, probably the
>> easiest
>> solution is to leave the buzzer in the main circuit, and wire a 24vac
>> relay
>> in parallel with it, using the relay contacts to close and open the
>> circuit
>> to the ding-dong bell.
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 10:08 AM  wrote:
>> >
>> > I know some of you are really good at this stuff…..
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I’m in a 95 year old house.  There are two doorbells.  I just replaced
>> the
>> > front doorbell with a new cheapo from Lowes.  Two chimes and two
>> > solenoids.  One solenoid fires when you press the button, and the other
>> > fires when you release the button so you get the “ding-dong”.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > There’s an old doorbell in the back kitchen that sounds like an old
>> school
>> > bell.  Two coils make the clacker move rapidly back and forth striking
>> the
>> > bell repeatedly.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Well, when I hooked up both the old and new bell at the same time, the
>> > school bell goes off when you press the button and the new one just
>> goes
>> > “dong” when you release the button.  Either one works fine hooked up
>> > separately.  I’m guessing the first solenoid never fires on the new
>> > doorbell because the school bell is a way heavier load and takes all
>> the
>> > current.  I could just replace the school bell, but I kinda like the
>> > nostalgic factor.  And I suppose the other easy answer is put them on
>> > separate transformers triggered by the same switch.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Is there some simple nerd-gineer answer like “just put a resistor here”?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Electronic question

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Hook the whole thing up to a PLC.  Lots of control then.

On Tue, Sep 6, 2022, 10:18 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Resistor in parallel will draw more current and perhaps allow the solenoid
> to work.  Those solenoid door bells normally use up almost all of the
> power
> from those class 2 transformers.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: dmmoff...@gmail.com
> Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2022 9:57 AM
> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Electronic question
>
> I'm thinking V=IR so if I add resistance to the newer bell would it draw
> more current and trigger the solenoid?  Or would the resistor just be
> turning current into heat?
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Chris Fabien
> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2022 11:41 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Electronic question
>
> I think you are correct about the cause of the issue, probably the easiest
> solution is to leave the buzzer in the main circuit, and wire a 24vac
> relay
> in parallel with it, using the relay contacts to close and open the
> circuit
> to the ding-dong bell.
>
> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 10:08 AM  wrote:
> >
> > I know some of you are really good at this stuff…..
> >
> >
> >
> > I’m in a 95 year old house.  There are two doorbells.  I just replaced
> the
> > front doorbell with a new cheapo from Lowes.  Two chimes and two
> > solenoids.  One solenoid fires when you press the button, and the other
> > fires when you release the button so you get the “ding-dong”.
> >
> >
> >
> > There’s an old doorbell in the back kitchen that sounds like an old
> school
> > bell.  Two coils make the clacker move rapidly back and forth striking
> the
> > bell repeatedly.
> >
> >
> >
> > Well, when I hooked up both the old and new bell at the same time, the
> > school bell goes off when you press the button and the new one just goes
> > “dong” when you release the button.  Either one works fine hooked up
> > separately.  I’m guessing the first solenoid never fires on the new
> > doorbell because the school bell is a way heavier load and takes all the
> > current.  I could just replace the school bell, but I kinda like the
> > nostalgic factor.  And I suppose the other easy answer is put them on
> > separate transformers triggered by the same switch.
> >
> >
> >
> > Is there some simple nerd-gineer answer like “just put a resistor here”?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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