Re: Unhappiness with the universe

> On 1 Feb 2020, at 21:17, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 2/1/2020 7:28 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 1 Feb 2020, at 06:20, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List >>> >> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 1/31/2020 5:59 AM, Bruno

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On 2/1/2020 7:28 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 1 Feb 2020, at 06:20, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: On 1/31/2020 5:59 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 23 Jan 2020, at 22:19, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

> On 1 Feb 2020, at 06:20, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 1/31/2020 5:59 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 23 Jan 2020, at 22:19, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List >>> >> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 1/23/2020 7:26 AM, Bru

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On 1/31/2020 5:59 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 23 Jan 2020, at 22:19, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: On 1/23/2020 7:26 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 22 Jan 2020, at 21:01, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Friday, January 31, 2020 at 8:32:41 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 25 Jan 2020, at 02:02, Bruce Kellett > > wrote: > > On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 11:42 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < > everyth...@googlegroups.com > wrote: > >> On 1/24/2020 4:14 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: >> >> On

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

> On 25 Jan 2020, at 09:36, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 10:01:56 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > On 1/24/2020 7:51 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 5:51:12 PM UTC-7, Bruce wrote: >> On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 11:48 AM Philip Thrift >

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

> On 25 Jan 2020, at 02:02, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 11:42 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> > wrote: > On 1/24/2020 4:14 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: >> On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 11:12 AM Philip Thrift >

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

> On 25 Jan 2020, at 01:14, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 11:12 AM Philip Thrift > wrote: > > > Actually this was the example of a field I was thinking of where a particle > doesn't seem to be specified: > > Consciousness emerges in molecules

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

> On 25 Jan 2020, at 00:49, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 10:42 AM Philip Thrift > wrote: > > > Is there an example of a field (in theory) with no associated particle? > > No. Peter Higgs won a Nobel Prize for asserting that there must be a pa

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

> On 24 Jan 2020, at 20:46, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 1/24/2020 2:40 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 3:16:19 AM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 1:56:02 AM UTC-7, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

> On 24 Jan 2020, at 09:56, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Thursday, January 23, 2020 at 4:15:16 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > Carroll was pointing out the fallacy of the Platonist idea that we achieve > true knowledge by pure contemplation, i.e. mathematics and philosophy, and > are only dec

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

> On 23 Jan 2020, at 22:19, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 1/23/2020 7:26 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 22 Jan 2020, at 21:01, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List >>> >> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 1/22/2020 7:09 AM, Br

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

> On 23 Jan 2020, at 20:29, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Thursday, January 23, 2020 at 9:33:23 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > Sean Carroll is right, we can only study the shadows on the cave wall, but we > can judge plausible the idea that they are only that: shadows of a deeper >

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 10:01:56 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > > On 1/24/2020 7:51 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 5:51:12 PM UTC-7, Bruce wrote: >> >> On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 11:48 AM Philip Thrift >> wrote: >> >>> On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 6:42:35 PM

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 7:03:10 PM UTC-6, Bruce wrote: > > On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 11:42 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < > everyth...@googlegroups.com > wrote: > >> On 1/24/2020 4:14 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: >> >> On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 11:12 AM Philip Thrift > > wrote: >> >>> >>>

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On 1/24/2020 7:51 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 5:51:12 PM UTC-7, Bruce wrote: On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 11:48 AM Philip Thrift > wrote: On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 6:42:35 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: Proto-bullshit is an intrinsic component o

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 5:51:12 PM UTC-7, Bruce wrote: > > On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 11:48 AM Philip Thrift > wrote: > >> On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 6:42:35 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Proto-bullshit is an intrinsic component of panpsychism. >>> >>> Brent >>> >>> >>> >> What

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On 1/24/2020 4:50 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 11:48 AM Philip Thrift > wrote: On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 6:42:35 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: Proto-bullshit is an intrinsic component of panpsychism. Brent What abou

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 11:42 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > On 1/24/2020 4:14 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 11:12 AM Philip Thrift > wrote: > >> >> >> Actually this was the example of a field I was thinking of where a >>

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On 1/24/2020 4:48 PM, Philip Thrift wrote: On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 6:42:35 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: Proto-bullshit is an intrinsic component of panpsychism. Brent What about is there or is there not a particle associated with the gravity field? It depends on whether it

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 11:48 AM Philip Thrift wrote: > On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 6:42:35 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> Proto-bullshit is an intrinsic component of panpsychism. >> >> Brent >> >> >> > What about is there or is there not a particle associated with the gravity > field? >

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 6:42:35 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > > Proto-bullshit is an intrinsic component of panpsychism. > > Brent > > > What about is there or is there not a particle associated with the gravity field? @philipthrift -- You received this message because you are subscrib

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 11:42 AM Philip Thrift wrote: > On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 5:50:02 PM UTC-6, Bruce wrote: >> >> On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 10:42 AM Philip Thrift >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Is there an example of a field (in theory) with no associated particle? >>> >> >> No. .fields ha

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On 1/24/2020 4:14 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 11:12 AM Philip Thrift > wrote: Actually this was the example of a field I was thinking of where a particle doesn't seem to be specified: /Consciousness emerges in molecules through

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 5:50:02 PM UTC-6, Bruce wrote: > > On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 10:42 AM Philip Thrift > wrote: > >> >> >> Is there an example of a field (in theory) with no associated particle? >> > > No. .fields have associated quanta, viz., particles. > > Bruce > >> >> > Gravi

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 11:12 AM Philip Thrift wrote: > > > Actually this was the example of a field I was thinking of where a > particle doesn't seem to be specified: > > *Consciousness emerges in molecules through an interaction with a > universal proto-consciousness field that is congruent or

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 6:04:44 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > > On 1/24/2020 3:42 PM, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 1:47:03 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> >> Vic wasn't right about everything. An elementary particle is an element >> of a mathematical theory to

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On 1/24/2020 3:42 PM, Philip Thrift wrote: On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 1:47:03 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: Vic wasn't right about everything.  An elementary particle is an element of a mathematical theory to.  And the fact that particles appear simply as a consequence of assuming

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 10:42 AM Philip Thrift wrote: > > > Is there an example of a field (in theory) with no associated particle? > No. Peter Higgs won a Nobel Prize for asserting that there must be a particle associated with the Higgs field, even though the field was only conjectural, and lon

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 1:47:03 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > Vic wasn't right about everything. An elementary particle is an element > of a mathematical theory to. And the fact that particles appear simply as > a consequence of assuming an accelerated coordinate system, argues for > r

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On 1/24/2020 2:40 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 3:16:19 AM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 1:56:02 AM UTC-7, Philip Thrift wrote: On Thursday, January 23, 2020 at 4:15:16 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: Carroll was poi

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On 1/24/2020 12:56 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: On Thursday, January 23, 2020 at 4:15:16 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: Carroll was pointing out the fallacy of the Platonist idea that we achieve true knowledge by pure contemplation, i.e. mathematics and philosophy, and are only deceived by

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 3:16:19 AM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 1:56:02 AM UTC-7, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thursday, January 23, 2020 at 4:15:16 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >>> >>> >>> Carroll was pointing out the fallacy of the Platonist idea tha

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 1:56:02 AM UTC-7, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Thursday, January 23, 2020 at 4:15:16 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> >> Carroll was pointing out the fallacy of the Platonist idea that we >> achieve true knowledge by pure contemplation, i.e. mathematics and >> phil

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Thursday, January 23, 2020 at 4:15:16 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > Carroll was pointing out the fallacy of the Platonist idea that we achieve > true knowledge by pure contemplation, i.e. mathematics and philosophy, and > are only deceived by the senses. > > Brent > > > *Carroll echoes Everet

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On 1/23/2020 11:29 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: On Thursday, January 23, 2020 at 9:33:23 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: Sean Carroll is right, we can only study the shadows on the cave wall, but we can judge plausible the idea that they are only that: shadows of a deeper reality, a

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On 1/23/2020 7:26 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 22 Jan 2020, at 21:01, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: On 1/22/2020 7:09 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 18 Jan 2020, at 10:16, Philip Thrift > wrote: On Satu

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Thursday, January 23, 2020 at 9:33:23 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > > Sean Carroll is right, we can only study the shadows on the cave wall, but > we can judge plausible the idea that they are only that: shadows of a > deeper reality, and not the fundamental reality itself. > > Bruno

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

> On 22 Jan 2020, at 21:46, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 1/22/2020 7:40 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 19 Jan 2020, at 19:52, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List >>> >> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 1/18/2020 11:58 PM, A

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

> On 22 Jan 2020, at 21:01, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 1/22/2020 7:09 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 18 Jan 2020, at 10:16, Philip Thrift >> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Saturday, January 18, 2020 at 2:00:23 AM UTC-6, Lawrence C

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

> On 22 Jan 2020, at 20:48, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 9:10:00 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 18 Jan 2020, at 10:16, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Saturday, January 18, 2020 at 2:00:23 AM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >> >> https://

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Thursday, January 23, 2020 at 1:28:44 AM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 7:29:32 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 1/22/2020 5:08 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >>> When you measure something and it is so close to zero as to be >>> indistinguishable fr

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 10:41:31 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: > > > > On 1/22/2020 8:18 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 8:51:50 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 1/22/2020 6:26 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 6:29:32

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 7:29:32 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > > On 1/22/2020 5:08 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > >> When you measure something and it is so close to zero as to be >> indistinguishable from zero, then taking it to be zero is not an assumption. >> >> > *Why don't you compare

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 10:41:31 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: > > > > On 1/22/2020 8:18 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 8:51:50 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 1/22/2020 6:26 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 6:29:32

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On 1/22/2020 8:18 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 8:51:50 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: On 1/22/2020 6:26 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 6:29:32 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: On 1/22/2020 5:08 PM, Alan Grayson wrote:

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 8:51:50 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: > > > > On 1/22/2020 6:26 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 6:29:32 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 1/22/2020 5:08 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >>> When you measure something and it is so clos

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On 1/22/2020 6:26 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 6:29:32 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: On 1/22/2020 5:08 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: When you measure something and it is so close to zero as to be indistinguishable from zero, then taking it to be zero

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 6:29:32 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: > > > > On 1/22/2020 5:08 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > >> When you measure something and it is so close to zero as to be >> indistinguishable from zero, then taking it to be zero is not an assumption. >> >> > *Why don't you compare

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On 1/22/2020 5:08 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: When you measure something and it is so close to zero as to be indistinguishable from zero, then taking it to be zero is not an assumption. *Why don't you compare the measured value with the curvature of a sphere 1 LY in diameter, or

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 1:46:21 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: > > > > On 1/22/2020 7:40 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 19 Jan 2020, at 19:52, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < > everyth...@googlegroups.com > wrote: > > > > On 1/18/2020 11:58 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Sunday, Jan

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On 1/22/2020 7:40 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 19 Jan 2020, at 19:52, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: On 1/18/2020 11:58 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: On Sunday, January 19, 2020 at 12:18:54 AM UTC-7, Brent wrote: On 1/18/2020 10:56

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On 1/22/2020 7:09 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 18 Jan 2020, at 10:16, Philip Thrift > wrote: On Saturday, January 18, 2020 at 2:00:23 AM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/257476/how-did-the-universe-shift-from-d

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 9:10:00 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 18 Jan 2020, at 10:16, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Saturday, January 18, 2020 at 2:00:23 AM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >> >> >> >> https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/257476/how-did-the-universe

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

> On 20 Jan 2020, at 23:14, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 2:59:30 PM UTC-7, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > Le lun. 20 janv. 2020 à 22:56, Alan Grayson > a écrit : > > > On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 2:00:36 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: > > > On 1/20/2020 5:10 AM, A

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

> On 20 Jan 2020, at 22:53, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > Le lun. 20 janv. 2020 à 22:45, Alan Grayson > a écrit : > > > On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 6:25:29 AM UTC-7, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > Le lun. 20 janv. 2020 à 14:10, Alan Grayson > a écrit : >

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

> On 19 Jan 2020, at 19:52, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 1/18/2020 11:58 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> On Sunday, January 19, 2020 at 12:18:54 AM UTC-7, Brent wrote: >> >> >> On 1/18/2020 10:56 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >>> I don't claim anything except that GR

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

> On 19 Jan 2020, at 11:26, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Sunday, January 19, 2020 at 2:54:49 AM UTC-7, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > On Saturday, January 18, 2020 at 6:04:53 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > On Saturday, January 18, 2020 at 2:55:16 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: > > > On 1/18/2

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

> On 19 Jan 2020, at 10:54, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Saturday, January 18, 2020 at 6:04:53 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > On Saturday, January 18, 2020 at 2:55:16 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: > > > On 1/18/2020 1:29 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> the infinite spatial extent must have occ

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

> On 18 Jan 2020, at 10:16, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Saturday, January 18, 2020 at 2:00:23 AM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: > > https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/257476/how-did-the-universe-shift-from-dark-matter-dominated-to-dark-energy-dominate/257542#257542 > >

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 7:46:46 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > > all those stupid physicists who think the universe may be flat and > infinite in extent are fools > Bingo. @philipthrift -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" grou

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Tuesday, January 21, 2020 at 12:58:03 AM UTC-7, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > Le mar. 21 janv. 2020 à 08:44, Alan Grayson > a écrit : > >> >> >> On Tuesday, January 21, 2020 at 12:33:26 AM UTC-7, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Le mar. 21 janv. 2020 à 08:29, Alan Grayson a >>> écrit

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

Le mar. 21 janv. 2020 à 08:44, Alan Grayson a écrit : > > > On Tuesday, January 21, 2020 at 12:33:26 AM UTC-7, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >> >> >> Le mar. 21 janv. 2020 à 08:29, Alan Grayson a >> écrit : >> >>> >>> >>> On Tuesday, January 21, 2020 at 12:00:22 AM UTC-7, Brent wrote:

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Tuesday, January 21, 2020 at 12:33:26 AM UTC-7, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > Le mar. 21 janv. 2020 à 08:29, Alan Grayson > a écrit : > >> >> >> On Tuesday, January 21, 2020 at 12:00:22 AM UTC-7, Brent wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 1/20/2020 10:09 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >>> >>> >>> *Maybe I can

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

Le mar. 21 janv. 2020 à 08:29, Alan Grayson a écrit : > > > On Tuesday, January 21, 2020 at 12:00:22 AM UTC-7, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 1/20/2020 10:09 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> *Maybe I can summarize it this way; if it had a beginning, which I will >> label as T = 0, and was finite in

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Tuesday, January 21, 2020 at 12:00:22 AM UTC-7, Brent wrote: > > > > On 1/20/2020 10:09 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > *Maybe I can summarize it this way; if it had a beginning, which I will > label as T = 0, and was finite in spatial extent, including zero spatial > extent, it has remained f

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On 1/20/2020 10:09 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: *Maybe I can summarize it this way; if it had a beginning, which I will label as T = 0, and was finite in spatial extent, including zero spatial extent, it has remained finite in spatial extent since all expansion rates are finite, and have been go

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 8:04:10 PM UTC-7, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 6:52:07 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 1/20/2020 5:42 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 6:22:28 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 1/20/2020

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 6:52:07 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: > > > > On 1/20/2020 5:42 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 6:22:28 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 1/20/2020 4:51 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 5:27:35 PM UTC-7,

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 6:46:46 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: > > > > On 1/20/2020 5:00 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > >> What justifies your rejecting one kind of infinity (expansion) while >> accepting other infinities (extent)? >> > > Expansion by itself can never result in any infinity because

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On 1/20/2020 5:42 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 6:22:28 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: On 1/20/2020 4:51 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 5:27:35 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: On 1/20/2020 3:29 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: > IF it ha

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On 1/20/2020 5:00 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: What justifies your rejecting one kind of infinity (expansion) while accepting other infinities (extent)? Expansion by itself can never result in any infinity because the rate is always finite, and the duration is finite, 13.8 BY. Can you n

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 6:22:28 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: > > > > On 1/20/2020 4:51 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 5:27:35 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 1/20/2020 3:29 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> > IF it has a beginning, it didn't exist prior to that b

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On 1/20/2020 4:51 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 5:27:35 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: On 1/20/2020 3:29 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: > IF it has a beginning, it didn't exist prior to that beginning, so it > couldn't ever be infinite thereafter because the expan

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 5:32:26 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: > > > > On 1/20/2020 3:44 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 2:59:30 PM UTC-7, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >> >> >> Le lun. 20 janv. 2020 à 22:56, Alan Grayson a >> écrit : >> >>> >>> >>> On Monday, January

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 5:27:35 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: > > > > On 1/20/2020 3:29 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > IF it has a beginning, it didn't exist prior to that beginning, so it > > couldn't ever be infinite thereafter because the expansion occurs at a > > finite rate > > There's an i

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On 1/20/2020 3:44 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 2:59:30 PM UTC-7, Quentin Anciaux wrote: Le lun. 20 janv. 2020 à 22:56, Alan Grayson > a écrit : On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 2:00:36 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: On 1/20/2020 5:10 AM, Alan G

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On 1/20/2020 3:29 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: IF it has a beginning, it didn't exist prior to that beginning, so it couldn't ever be infinite thereafter because the expansion occurs at a finite rate There's an implicit assumption that it could not have come into existence as infinite...but it

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 2:59:30 PM UTC-7, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > Le lun. 20 janv. 2020 à 22:56, Alan Grayson > a écrit : > >> >> >> On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 2:00:36 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 1/20/2020 5:10 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: >>> >>> I explained it severa

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 3:29:25 PM UTC-7, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > Le lun. 20 janv. 2020 à 23:14, Alan Grayson > a écrit : > >> >> >> On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 2:59:30 PM UTC-7, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Le lun. 20 janv. 2020 à 22:56, Alan Grayson a >>> écrit : >

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

Le lun. 20 janv. 2020 à 23:14, Alan Grayson a écrit : > > > On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 2:59:30 PM UTC-7, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >> >> >> Le lun. 20 janv. 2020 à 22:56, Alan Grayson a >> écrit : >> >>> >>> >>> On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 2:00:36 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: >>>

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 2:59:30 PM UTC-7, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > Le lun. 20 janv. 2020 à 22:56, Alan Grayson > a écrit : > >> >> >> On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 2:00:36 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 1/20/2020 5:10 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: >>> >>> I explained it severa

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 2:54:07 PM UTC-7, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > Le lun. 20 janv. 2020 à 22:45, Alan Grayson > a écrit : > >> >> >> On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 6:25:29 AM UTC-7, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Le lun. 20 janv. 2020 à 14:10, Alan Grayson a >>> écrit : >

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

Le lun. 20 janv. 2020 à 22:56, Alan Grayson a écrit : > > > On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 2:00:36 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 1/20/2020 5:10 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> I explained it several times. There's a singularity implied if it had a >> start AND was infinite. If it's infinite

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 2:00:36 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: > > > > On 1/20/2020 5:10 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > I explained it several times. There's a singularity implied if it had a > start AND was infinite. If it's infinite, it never had a beginning or > start. AG > > > Why isn't a sing

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

Le lun. 20 janv. 2020 à 22:45, Alan Grayson a écrit : > > > On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 6:25:29 AM UTC-7, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >> >> >> Le lun. 20 janv. 2020 à 14:10, Alan Grayson a >> écrit : >> >>> >>> >>> On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 6:04:38 AM UTC-7, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >>>

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 6:25:29 AM UTC-7, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > Le lun. 20 janv. 2020 à 14:10, Alan Grayson > a écrit : > >> >> >> On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 6:04:38 AM UTC-7, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Le lun. 20 janv. 2020 à 13:49, Alan Grayson a >>> écrit : >

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On 1/20/2020 5:10 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: I explained it several times. There's a singularity implied it it had a start AND was infinite. If it's infinite, it never had a beginning or start. AG Why isn't a singularity implied if it had a start and was /finite/? That was exactly the standar

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On 1/20/2020 12:12 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 12:57:55 AM UTC-7, Bruce wrote: On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 5:59 PM Alan Grayson > wrote: On Sunday, January 19, 2020 at 10:50:46 PM UTC-7, Bruce wrote: On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 4:19 PM Alan Grayso

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

Le lun. 20 janv. 2020 à 14:10, Alan Grayson a écrit : > > > On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 6:04:38 AM UTC-7, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >> >> >> Le lun. 20 janv. 2020 à 13:49, Alan Grayson a >> écrit : >> >>> >>> >>> On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 3:30:19 AM UTC-7, Alan Grayson wrote: >

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 6:04:38 AM UTC-7, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > Le lun. 20 janv. 2020 à 13:49, Alan Grayson > a écrit : > >> >> >> On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 3:30:19 AM UTC-7, Alan Grayson wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 3:02:51 AM UTC-7, Philip Thrift w

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

Le lun. 20 janv. 2020 à 13:49, Alan Grayson a écrit : > > > On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 3:30:19 AM UTC-7, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 3:02:51 AM UTC-7, Philip Thrift wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 2:31:42 AM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: >

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 3:30:19 AM UTC-7, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 3:02:51 AM UTC-7, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 2:31:42 AM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 1:17:58 AM UTC-7, Alan

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 3:02:51 AM UTC-7, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 2:31:42 AM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 1:17:58 AM UTC-7, Alan Grayson wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 1:12:45 AM UTC-7, Alan

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 2:31:42 AM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 1:17:58 AM UTC-7, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 1:12:45 AM UTC-7, Alan Grayson wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 12:57:55 AM UTC-7, Bruc

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 1:17:58 AM UTC-7, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 1:12:45 AM UTC-7, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 12:57:55 AM UTC-7, Bruce wrote: >>> >>> On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 5:59 PM Alan Grayson >>> wrote: >>> O

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 1:12:45 AM UTC-7, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 12:57:55 AM UTC-7, Bruce wrote: >> >> On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 5:59 PM Alan Grayson wrote: >> >>> On Sunday, January 19, 2020 at 10:50:46 PM UTC-7, Bruce wrote: On Mon, Jan 20, 20

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 12:57:55 AM UTC-7, Bruce wrote: > > On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 5:59 PM Alan Grayson > wrote: > >> On Sunday, January 19, 2020 at 10:50:46 PM UTC-7, Bruce wrote: >>> >>> On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 4:19 PM Alan Grayson >>> wrote: >>> *Last sentence above: I mea

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 5:59 PM Alan Grayson wrote: > On Sunday, January 19, 2020 at 10:50:46 PM UTC-7, Bruce wrote: >> >> On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 4:19 PM Alan Grayson wrote: >> >>> >>> *Last sentence above: I mean that if it had a "start" with infinite >>> spatial extent, that would seem to mea

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Sunday, January 19, 2020 at 10:50:46 PM UTC-7, Bruce wrote: > > On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 4:19 PM Alan Grayson > wrote: > >> >> *Last sentence above: I mean that if it had a "start" with infinite >> spatial extent, that would seem to mean it did NOT have an infinite spatial >> extent just pri

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