Re: [Felvtalk] ringworm

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

You could also use the natural remedies found on holisticat.com.


On Sun, Feb 24, 2013 at 9:10 AM,  wrote:

>   I use the Walmart Equate brand of Athlete’s Foot cream it is 1%
> Clotrimazole and has always worked for my cats, have used it many times.
> Just apply a couple of times a day, no mess, no smell and it is cheap.  If
> they have quite a lot of ringworm, I woiuld also bathe them with Nizoral
> shampoo, not to expensive and available in the dandruff shampoo area at
> Walmart.
>
> Gary
>
>  *From:* Elizabeth Ann Bodden 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 13, 2013 10:16 AM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* [Felvtalk] ringworm
>
> Does anyone have tips on how to get rid of ringworm on a felv positive
> kitten?
>
> --
>
>
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>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster a "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save
their life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, then foster an older animal, to save their life,
and to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% (and as high as 99%)
of their intake by implementing the No Kill Equation. No Kill Quick Facts:
http://www.nathanwinograd.com/?p=11718

Here's the current growing list of communities saving 90% or more of their
shelter intake: http://www.no-killnews.com/ (see the right sidebar).

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' page for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
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Re: [Felvtalk] War on Cats and Others

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Take heart:
http://www.npr.org/blogs/13.7/2013/02/03/170851048/do-we-really-know-that-cats-kill-by-the-billions-not-so-fast


On Sat, Feb 2, 2013 at 1:41 AM, Lee Evans  wrote:

> There is so much nonsense, mythology and prejudice going around when it
> comes to diseases in general, whether cat, dog or human that it's a wonder
> any of us survive the ignorance rather than the disease. An acquaintance of
> mine was told by a licensed veterinarian that she needed to have her
> healthy FIV+ cat euthanized because humans can catch it from cats. Meow? My
> tenant, when I had a rent house, insisted that FIV was highly contagious
> but FeLv was NOT. Tail backwards. People to this day refuse to hug a person
> who is living with HIV but will shake hands with someone who has a horrid
> head cold and get all chummy with people who are coughing all over the air.
>
> Many veterinarians seem not to like cats to the point of finding reasons
> to put them to death. Others are simply too lazy to study new theories of
> medicine. In some cases, we have not traveled more than inches away from
> dancing around the bonfire to banish evil spirits as a cure for illness.
>
> Finally, we are now being treated to amazingly inflated statistics from
> almost comic studies that produced the startling news that cats kill rats
> and mice. Who would have thought!! Not just some rats and mice  but toss in
> moles, voles and gophers, not to mention those things with wings that
> mostly fly.  Stir with a hefty dose of sensationalism due to a slow news
> day, and you come up with BILLIONS of small mammals and birds being
> slaughtered and exterminated by feral cats. Please don't mention though
> that humans  have hunted dozens of species to extinction just to have a
> head to hang on the wall or a rug for the floor, or as a way to stop male
> sexual dysfunction, or to carve into little statues or furniture
> (elephants) or just as a lovely delicacy to eat at a way overpriced fancy
> restaurant. (shark fin soup and other disgusting dishes). Sometimes it
> seems like humans will kill everything from snails to whales for the most
> trivial or ridiculous reason. However, just let it be known that cats kill
> mice and rats for a living and you have panic in the streets. Ah well, time
> to get off my soap box and go to bed.
>
>
> Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty
> neighbors too!
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster a "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save
their life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, then foster an older animal, to save their life,
and to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% (and as high as 99%)
of their intake by implementing the No Kill Equation. No Kill Quick Facts:
http://www.nathanwinograd.com/?p=11718

Here's the current growing list of communities saving 90% or more of their
shelter intake: http://www.no-killnews.com/ (see the right sidebar).

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' page for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
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Re: [Felvtalk] Pain meds for arthritis

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Glucosomine can take months to work.   It has to rebuild.   Take a look at
Dr. Jean Hofve's page:
http://www.facekitty.com/2009/04/arthritis-in-cats-holistic-tre.html for
some interesting information, especially Creak-away.   I was never happy
with the ingredients of GlycoFlex, so never gave it to any cats.


On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 3:39 AM, Tracey Shrout  wrote:

> Hi all, I have a positive kitty,  Abbey, who is about 5 years old.  She is
> very healthy except for having arthritis in her hip. I believe lack
> of nutrition as a kitten caused the poor development of her bones.  X-rays
> showed her hip bone was very squared and was likely causing her limp.  I
> started her on GlycoFlexii chewable treats about 6 weeks ago. They have
> glucosamine and other ingredients for joint support.  Her limp hasn't
> improved, and I think she may be in pain.  I am so leary of putting her on
> pain meds since she will surely have to be on them for life.  I want to
> start her out on the mildest possible meds.  I don't think she'll let me
> pill her either, that's why the soft chewables seemed to be ideal.  She
> doesn't have any teeth either...lost them all shortly after I got her.
> Have any of you used anything that has no side effects that might work for
> her?
>
> ___
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> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.no-killnews.com/ (see the right sidebar)

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
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Re: [Felvtalk] stomatitis

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

No Oxyfresh is a dental thing you put in pets' water:
http://www.oxyfresh.com/pet/petoralhygiene.asp

(Sent the protocol directly to her.)

On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 7:03 AM, dot winkler  wrote:

> Hi Kathryn:  Can you give me the recipe for homeopathic remedy/diet for
> feline stomatitis.  I had it printed out but in the disuption of the
> hurricane, I misplaced it.  I do remember Oxyfresh in the water.  Do you
> mean, Oxiwash  that we use in our laundry to help whiten it?  How much?  Is
> it safe?  How often?
> I am giving Tiger CoQ10 as well as Vit C and L-Lysine daily.  Thanks, Dot
> (Freehold, NJ)
>
>

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.no-killnews.com/ (see the right sidebar)

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
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Re: [Felvtalk] Cats and 'Essential Oils'

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Not sure if it was me, but here's one of my favorites:
http://holisticat.com/aromatherapy.html   Some contend that they are OK if
they are high-quality.   I would use hydrosols or flower essences instead,
just to be on the safe side.


On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 9:59 AM, Bonnie Hogue  wrote:

> A while back someone posted information on cautions using essential oils
> around cats.  I believe it was a link to a website with information.
>
> Dear whomever:  could you kindly repost that?
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Bonnie
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.no-killnews.com/ (see the right sidebar)

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
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Re: [Felvtalk] Cat in Ohio needs home

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Note that one can transition kits to the much healthier wet food (and then
healthy wet food, as opposed to Friskies, which is great for getting cats
to eat anything) by adding in a little of the desired stuff at a time while
subtracting the old stuff.   Cats are instinctually fussy about food for a
good evolutionary reason.   You can also putting really smelly bonito
flakes or tuna water on things they may otherwise not eat.   I also use
freeze-dried liver or salmon or chicken or beef (from save sources, not
China), because it smells so strong.   The nose is the gateway to a cat's
stomach.

Is there a way the vet can detect these possible lesions mentioned by
digegg?


The other Kathryn (call me Kathy).


On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 7:31 PM, Kathryn Green  wrote:

> THANK YOU!  I will bring that possibility up w/the vet.  In talking to
> him on the phone he has come up with a few possibilities but I will
> see what he thinks.  I also notice that Oz is VERY leery of brooms.
> Will even stop eating his morning canned food and run for shelter if I
> start sweeping around his litter pan on the far side of the room.  And
> unlike Miss Kitty, Oz LOVES his canned food treat.   I have to wonder
> if he hasn't been clobbered/chased with a broom more than a few times.
>
> Kat
>
> dlg...@windstream.net wrote:
>
>
> RE:  Oz and his rear end.  I had a stray that never wanted his rear
> end touched.  He died from urinary tract obstruction.  The vet was
> upset that he could not find anything to cause it so he did an
> autopsy.  He found adhesions all over inside his body, the kind that
> come from being kicked across a room, very hard.  He was a beautiful
> champagne color Persian with the most loving personality.  Maybe Oz
> has some adhesions ?
>  Chris  wrote:
> > ___
> > Felvtalk mailing list
> > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>



-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.no-killnews.com/ (see the right sidebar)

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
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Re: [Felvtalk] Please remove me from your mailing list - thank you

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

You do that yourself by clicking on the bottom link of each Felvtalk
message and filling out the resulting form.


On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 2:55 AM, Glenda Kelly wrote:

>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.no-killnews.com/ (see the right sidebar)

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
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Re: [Felvtalk] Leukemia Positive Cat

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Don't just get the IFA, as they are skewed towards false negatives.
 ELISAs are skewed towards false positives, so if you do the IFA, it would
be to reconcile with the ELISA.

On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 10:42 PM, Lee Evans  wrote:

> I don't much trust tests anyway but if you want to get a more accurate
> test, in a month do the IFA test on him.  I had an adult cat who tested
> strong positive.  I kept him for 3 months in a separate room, tested again
> and it was negative but because he would be mixed in with my many rescues,
> I had the IFA test done and it was also negative.  Moses has been living
> with 20 of my rescues for the past 6 years now.
>
>
> Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty
> neighbors too!
>
>
>   --
> *From:* Lorrie 
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 24, 2012 10:49 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Leukemia Positive Cat
>
> I have a 6 1/2 month old rescued kitten.  He tested FelV pos. at
> 8 weeks old and I just had him tested again.  This time the results
> were a "light pos."  They told me it just barely turned positive on
> the test.  Would this indicate he is in the process of throwing off
> the virus? I LOVE this kitten so much.  He is such an affectionate
> boy, and I'm praying I don't lose him.  So many FelV positive cats
> don't make it past aa year or so.
>
> Lorrie
>
> ___
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> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
>
> ___
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> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.no-killnews.com/ (see the right sidebar)

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
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Re: [Felvtalk] Spaying advice

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Breeders have vasectomized males around to get their intact females out of
heat.


On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 5:40 PM, Bonnie Hogue  wrote:

> Someone would get a male cat a vasectomy?  Or have a female cat’s tubes
> tied?
>
> Wow…people are stupider than I thought…
>
> B.
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
> Of *janine paton
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 20, 2012 6:27 PM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Spaying advice
>
> ** **
>
> The stress of an unspayed female is great, I think much greater than the
> spaying itself.  And it may be true that pyometria is more common in dogs,
> but boy have we seen plenty in outside cats, even young ones.  One couldn't
> have been more than a year old and we had no idea her slightly swollen
> belly was pyometria.  And have h ad a few with mammary cancer also.  Not
> worth it.  Use a decent vet and get your cat spayed!  
>
> ** **
> --
>
> *From:* Lee Evans 
> *To:* "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org" 
> *Sent:* Tue, November 20, 2012 8:57:09 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Spaying advice
>
> Amen to that sister.  My cat Cookie, long ago, was borderline diabetic.
> The vet didn't want to subject her to anesthesia because he said she was an
> older cat and might develop full blown diabetes since she was on the edge.
> So I didn't have her spayed.  She went into her heat cycle several more
> times, then gave it up as a bad idea.  She lived an additional 5 years with
> me as a house feral. One day I noticed blood on her chair towel (I use
> towels to cover the plastic chairs in my house.  Everything here has to be
> washable).  I also noticed that Cookie was acting very lethargic.  I
> finally got her into a carrier.  At the clinic they flipped her over and I
> was horrified.  All her nipples were black, some were enlarged, two were
> bleeding.  She had severe mammary cancer.  The vet said she was probably in
> pain.  There was nothing I could do.  He gave her a pain injection.  She
> became drowsy and I allowed him to euthanize her.  I will NEVER NOT SPAY a
> cat.  Male cats can get prostate cancer.  There is no proven reason why
> cats and dogs can't be spayed and neutered.  Humans have the operation all
> the time for ovarian cancer and prostate cancer.  If physicians didn't do
> hysterectomies on women with cancer or with precancerous lesions the
> cancers would metastasize and more people would die.
>
> In addition, try and get an intact spraying male cat or howling female cat
> adopted.  It will just not work.
>
> Or, as an alternative, get the female's tubes tied and give the male a
> vasectomy and you still have all the mating behavior in addition to the
> operations costing almost a thousand dollars as opposed to spay/neuter that
> can be had for a cost as low as $15 including rabies shot.
>
> I want to add that my mother, a registered nurse at the time, forbade me
> to have any of our yard cats neutered or spayed citing the ridiculous
> argument that animals and people have to be left natural.  Consequently I
> allowed two intact cats to remain that way, filling my yard with 7 kittens
> who, although I didn't know it, were FeLv positive and active for the
> disease.  They all died.  Had I spayed and neutered mom and dad cat, I
> would have saved 7 kittens from being born and dying in illness and
> discomfort and possibly saved mom and dad cats from wandering away to
> spread the disease all over the neighborhood.
>
> ** **
>
>  
>
> *Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty
> neighbors too!*
>
> ** **
> --
>
> *From:* Beth 
> *To:* "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org" 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 20, 2012 11:15 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Spaying advice
>
> ** **
>
> I'm not going to start an argument over one study.
> Being in heat was very stressful on the one of the 1st FeLV cats I had.
> The spay was easy & she recovered quickly.
> My cats have all been spayed. We've had cats live well into their 20's -
> all spayed.
> Cats who still have their ovaries, which are responsible for heat cycles,
> are much more likely to develop mammary cancer.
> Cats (& dogs) can also develop an infection in their uterus (pyometra)
> from not being spayed..
>
> There is just not enough evidence out there to make me even think about
> not getting my cats, FeLV or not,  spayed.
>
> Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org *
> ***
>
>  
>
> ** **
> --
>
> ** **
>
>
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>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound 

Re: [Felvtalk] Spaying advice

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Perhaps this information will be useful to other folks on this list, then,
since Felv shortens lifespan in general.

Dogs are more likely to get both mammary cancer and pyometra than are cats,
and ovary retention seems to override this, along with their heat stresses.
   However, cats are polyestrous (go into heat several times a year)
whereas dogs are diestrous (two heat cycles a year), so cats have more heat
stresses, which may or may not override the ovary-retention effect.  Note
that breeders use various methods of getting cats they don't want pregnant
out of heat, so perhaps one could sufficiently reduce the stress to that of
a dog's.

I've heard of cats living to over 30, and since this study looks at the
outliers for what's possible, we might look at 30+ years as an upper bound
for cat longevity, at least non-Felv+ ones.



On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 8:15 AM, Beth  wrote:

> I'm not going to start an argument over one study.
> Being in heat was very stressful on the one of the 1st FeLV cats I had.
> The spay was easy & she recovered quickly.
> My cats have all been spayed. We've had cats live well into their 20's -
> all spayed.
> Cats who still have their ovaries, which are responsible for heat cycles,
> are much more likely to develop mammary cancer.
> Cats (& dogs) can also develop an infection in their uterus (pyometra)
> from not being spayed..
>
> There is just not enough evidence out there to make me even think about
> not getting my cats, FeLV or not,  spayed.
>
> Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org <http://www.furkids.org/>
>
>
>   --
> *From:* Kathryn Hargreaves 
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2012 3:41 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Spaying advice
>
> If that's the case, then why do dogs who retain their ovaries live a third
> longer?There's more to the overall story than just local stresses:
> http://www.gpmcf.org/respectovaries.html   American vet schools do not
> teach any sterilizations other than spay/neuter.
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 5:34 PM, Beth  wrote:
>
> My vet said being in heat is more stressful than the surgery. I would wait
> for the retest, though. If still positive have a full bloodwork panel done
> to make sure she is healthy, just as you would for a senior kitty.
> Hope all goes well.
>
> Beth
>
> Maryam Ulomi  wrote:
>
> >Hello everyone,
> >
> >We are looking at possibly spaying Kitty, our 5 months old FeLV rescued
> feral baby. She is currently on the lysine and living large in her own
> room, isolated from our other two cats, since she posted positive but we
> are retesting her at 6months, which should be in December.
> >Should we retest first and then spay?
> >Is there anything we should know/do to prepare ?
> >
> >Any suggestions are welcome
> >
> >Sent from my iPhone
> >___
> >Felvtalk mailing list
> >Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> >http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
>
>
> --
> 
> Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!
>
> If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save
> their life.  Contact your local pound for information. 
> <http://www.laanimalservices.com/volunteer_fostercare.htm>
>
> If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
> to free up cage space.
>
>
> Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
> implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/
>
> Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
> http://www.no-killnews.com/ (see the right sidebar)
>
> Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org
>
> More fun reading:
> http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/
>
> More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
> http://vimeo.com/48445902
>
>
>
> Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
> http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mail

Re: [Felvtalk] Spaying advice

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

If that's the case, then why do dogs who retain their ovaries live a third
longer?There's more to the overall story than just local stresses:
http://www.gpmcf.org/respectovaries.html   American vet schools do not
teach any sterilizations other than spay/neuter.


On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 5:34 PM, Beth  wrote:

> My vet said being in heat is more stressful than the surgery. I would wait
> for the retest, though. If still positive have a full bloodwork panel done
> to make sure she is healthy, just as you would for a senior kitty.
> Hope all goes well.
>
> Beth
>
> Maryam Ulomi  wrote:
>
> >Hello everyone,
> >
> >We are looking at possibly spaying Kitty, our 5 months old FeLV rescued
> feral baby. She is currently on the lysine and living large in her own
> room, isolated from our other two cats, since she posted positive but we
> are retesting her at 6months, which should be in December.
> >Should we retest first and then spay?
> >Is there anything we should know/do to prepare ?
> >
> >Any suggestions are welcome
> >
> >Sent from my iPhone
> >___
> >Felvtalk mailing list
> >Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> >http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>



-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.no-killnews.com/ (see the right sidebar)

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] Anemia in Desi (was STORM/REPLY LORRIE, 11/6 - Scents and other chemicals)

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

My vet gave my anemic cat B12 subQs, but he still needed a transfusion.
He was probably a lot more anemic, though.   His blood looked like water
and he had a red blood cell parasite.   Have you checked for that?

Here's a nice page (about which you probably already know) about anemia:
http://www.felinecrf.org/anaemia.htm

The short of it is, get some treatment fast.


On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 10:24 AM, Lee Evans  wrote:

> I am fostering one of my former colony cats.  My friend is now feeding the
> colony, which was hers to begin with but since I moved out of the county
> and live 35 miles away, she has had to take back the care of the 7 colonies
> with which I was helping her.
>
> Desi, the cat I am now fostering has lost a lot of weight.  My friend took
> him to the vet and the cat has tested positive for FeLv.  His PCV test is
> at 10 and the vet doesn't hold out much hope for long term survival.  In
> addition, the vet felt a small mass near the cat's liver.  However, what's
> puzzling is that Desi is still eating, still grooming, his fur is shiny
> like a healthy cat.  His eyes were clear and bright last night but had a
> little gunk on one cheek this morning.  But they are still wide and bright
> and he doesn't seem to be in any discomfort or pain.  One thing though is
> that he's weak.  He walks slowly and sits down after a few steps but then
> he gets up, rubs against me and then sits again. His belly is large but i
> can feel his backbone when I stroke him.  When I knew him as a street cat,
> he was plump and active and mischievous. I have known him since he was a
> half grown kitten. He was one of many black cats born to a black feral mom
> cat in the colony but he was friendly to me and my rescue partner.  When we
> got them neutered, we did not test them for anything because we don't have
> money for that.  Desi is about 4 years old.  The colony hangs out at an
> office park.
>
> I'm wondering if there's any way short of a transfusion to deal with his
> anemia.  I'm giving him Nutra Ved vitamins daily, .5 cc. twice a day.  I
> can't afford the transfusion and with a leukemia positive cat I don't feel
> it would be wise or that any vet would be willing to do that.
>
> Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty
> neighbors too!
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.no-killnews.com/ (see the right sidebar)

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] STORM/REPLY LORRIE, 11/6

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Dot,

Please don't use essential oils, even as aromatherapy, on cats, as it's
unclear, lacking as they do the liver enzymes that we have, whether or not
they can metabolize the toxins in them.   Just putting him in a steamy
bathroom (in a carrier, so he won't jump into the tub---learned this the
very hard way) twice or three times a day for 20 minutes and he should be
good.

Also, 250 mg of Vitamin C (or up to loose stools, then back off) would help
with the congestion, as would N-A-C (Acetyl Cysteine, Acétyl Cystéine,
Acetylcysteine, Acétylcystéine, Chlorhydrate de Cystéine, Cysteine,
Cystéine, Cysteine Hydrochloride, Cystine, Hydrochlorure de Cystéine,
L-Cysteine, L-Cystéine, L-Cysteine HCl, L-Cystéine HCl, NAC), which is
really great at getting congestion out of the lungs (among many other
things).   I've had kits clear up really fast with the latter.


Kathy
*
*

On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 3:09 PM, dot winkler  wrote:

> Hi Lorrie - I received your check in the mail.  Thank you, thank you so
> much and to everyone who helped out.  Tiger was taken to the vet.  He was
> given to my sis in law but her ceiling caved in with the storm and shingles
> blown off her roof so she gave him back to me temporarily.  He has a cold,
> (he is fev pos) and is having a hard time throwing it off.  I have a
> eucalyptus mister in my room that I run twice a day for him.  He is on anti
> b for the stomatitis which his mouth is much, much better.  he is gaining
> weight and i give him Lysine 500/day.  So Tiger is a success story, and I
> hope his cold clears up soon.  Goldie has not yet been captured.  He is
> still not well.
> Any tips on the cold?  He is congested, but not in the eyes.  Only in the
> nose and sinuses.
> It was thoughtful again Lorrie to receive your check.  The card was cute.
>  The Farmingdale colony are doing okay and weathered the storm safely.
>  Thanks, Dot
>
>   --
> *From:* Lorrie 
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Sent:* Monday, October 29, 2012 6:40 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] STORM
>
> Dot,
> Sounds like you have a super good husband. Mine is too. He built me
> feral shelters for one of my feral colonies, and since we have so many
> cats at home he built me heated, thermostatically controlled sleeping
> boxes in our garage for the 3 outside cats.  They have a cat flap into
> the garage, and they go into one of the three heated boxes thru a cat
> flap too.  THey have a large window to look out of and a warm blanket
> inside their box as well as the heat.  I use those ceramic reptile
> heaters that give out heat but no light. They screw in like a light bulb
> and give out heat but not light. They seem to last forever as I've used
> them 8 or 10 years now. They are expensive - about $20. each but are
> worth it and they won't break or shatter like a light bulb would, tho
> a light bulb can be used if you don't have the ceramic heater.
>
> I think your cats will be okay with what you've prepared for them.
> Please let us know how they are when the storm passes.
>
> BTW, I mailed your check Saturday so you should get it early this
> week, if mail is delivered.
>
> Lorrie
>
>
> On 10-28, dot winkler wrote:
> >I am in Freehold, NJ. Inland  So, you are in New York?  Or is that
> near
> >Long Island?
> >Do you have any outdoor colonies?  My hub over the last year has built
> >small dog house type shelters (he is a carpenter) with tarping on the
> >rooves.  They are surrounded by tee pee pallets piled on each other.
> >Then covered in tarping or plastic stapled on with his staple gun.
> >There are piles of furniture dumped in the area and some of the houses
> >are within those, protected. There are 2 dry feed stations we just
> >filled tonight.  I just still am very worried.  Hoping they will be
> >okay.  What experiences have you had with storms and the cats?
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.no-killnews.com/ (see the right sidebar)

Legislate better animal pound conditio

Re: [Felvtalk] Kitten Sitting, need suggestion

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

On Panleuk?

On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 1:50 PM, Marcia  wrote:

> But amoxicillin works too!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 4, 2012, at 4:19 PM, Martha Walton  wrote:
>
> Thanks Kathryn & Christiane.
> Both kittens just had diarrhea, no blood in the stool & no blood in the
> vomit.
>
> She is feeding them wet food, Friskies/wet and Meow Mix/wet.  I have tried
> to get the kittens to eat Before Grain wet food, but they will not eat it.
> The kittens will lap up a little water, but nothing excessive.  Problem is,
> they walk away and vomit up the water.
>
> Kittens were eating good Wednesday, Thursday & Friday.  I gave them some
> dry food on Thursday or Friday night, Natures Variety Instinct.  Maybe
> their tummies just didn't like the new food.
>
> I am very worried, the kittens go back to their home tomorrow AM.  The
> kittens have had the first round of shots & testing.  I have called their
> human parents twice and left two messages.
>
> On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 4:26 PM, Christiane Biagi wrote:
>
>> Are they eating the food they usually eat or did they have a change of
>> food when they came to your house?  
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
>> Of *Martha Walton
>> *Sent:* Sunday, November 04, 2012 3:42 PM
>> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>> *Subject:* [Felvtalk] Kitten Sitting, need suggestion
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> I am kitten-sitting two kittens this weekend for a friend.  The kittens
>> ate well for the first two days, but yesterday they turned their nose up at
>> food.  Today neither kitten is eating and they are both throwing up water.
>> Yesterday one of the kittens had diarrhea.  Neither has done #2 today.
>> Both kittens are playful, drinking water and alert, but I am very worried
>> about them not eating.  I have called their owner and left a message about
>> the vomiting.
>>
>> The owner says that both kittens have been tested for "all diseases".  I
>> have not let the kittens have contact with my 5 house-cats.  Today one of
>> my cats had some diarrhea, so I am hoping that the kittens are not getting
>> my cats sick..
>>
>> Any suggestions?  The kittens go back to their house tomorrow at 10:00am.
>>
>> I am using Tidy Cats Pure Nature for their cat litter.
>>
>> ___
>> Felvtalk mailing list
>> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>>
>>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.no-killnews.com/ (see the right sidebar)

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] Kitten Sitting, need suggestion

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Wonder how it worked on the virus, or does it work on viruses, too?   Last
I talked to the vets that treated my kittens (most died), they wouldn't use
``controversial'' Tamiflu.   My friend's vet saved her litter that way.


On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 1:39 PM, Marcia  wrote:

> Diarrhea control gel by van beek clears it right up if its bacterial. I
> had a lot of cats years ago that had been dumped on me and I could not
> catch them to vaccinate. Pretty soon they all started dying, and it was
> panleuk. I had a bottle of excenel that I had used on my Pygmy goat for
> mastitis. It wasn't labeled for cats at that time but I knew it killed fast
> growing bacteria, like toxic shock. Didn't think I had anything to lose so
> I started hitting everyone up with it and it saved their lives! Fortunately
> the next year in the Plumb Veterinary drug Handbook it was labeled for
> cats. 1 mg per lb. 50 mg per ML just in case you ever need it(-:
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 4, 2012, at 4:19 PM, Martha Walton  wrote:
>
> Thanks Kathryn & Christiane.
> Both kittens just had diarrhea, no blood in the stool & no blood in the
> vomit.
>
> She is feeding them wet food, Friskies/wet and Meow Mix/wet.  I have tried
> to get the kittens to eat Before Grain wet food, but they will not eat it.
> The kittens will lap up a little water, but nothing excessive.  Problem is,
> they walk away and vomit up the water.
>
> Kittens were eating good Wednesday, Thursday & Friday.  I gave them some
> dry food on Thursday or Friday night, Natures Variety Instinct.  Maybe
> their tummies just didn't like the new food.
>
> I am very worried, the kittens go back to their home tomorrow AM.  The
> kittens have had the first round of shots & testing.  I have called their
> human parents twice and left two messages.
>
> On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 4:26 PM, Christiane Biagi wrote:
>
>> Are they eating the food they usually eat or did they have a change of
>> food when they came to your house?  
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
>> Of *Martha Walton
>> *Sent:* Sunday, November 04, 2012 3:42 PM
>> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>> *Subject:* [Felvtalk] Kitten Sitting, need suggestion
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> I am kitten-sitting two kittens this weekend for a friend.  The kittens
>> ate well for the first two days, but yesterday they turned their nose up at
>> food.  Today neither kitten is eating and they are both throwing up water.
>> Yesterday one of the kittens had diarrhea.  Neither has done #2 today.
>> Both kittens are playful, drinking water and alert, but I am very worried
>> about them not eating.  I have called their owner and left a message about
>> the vomiting.
>>
>> The owner says that both kittens have been tested for "all diseases".  I
>> have not let the kittens have contact with my 5 house-cats.  Today one of
>> my cats had some diarrhea, so I am hoping that the kittens are not getting
>> my cats sick..
>>
>> Any suggestions?  The kittens go back to their house tomorrow at 10:00am.
>>
>> I am using Tidy Cats Pure Nature for their cat litter.
>>
>> ___
>> Felvtalk mailing list
>> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>>
>>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.no-killnews.com/ (see the right sidebar)

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] Kitten Sitting, need suggestion

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

I think it's generally agreed upon that kittens should get wet food, not
dry.   Did you try feeding the wet food you'd been giving them before they
shut down?

I'm an evangelist against all dry, no matter how ``healthy,'' as cats are
desert animals and don't have good thirst mechanisms to make them want to
drink water to compensate for dry food.

Did they just have shots?   Maybe they are reacting to them?I hope they
hold off on any more shots until this is resolved.

I don't remember my Panleuk kittens having blood in the vomit/diarrhea, but
I may be blocked that out.

Keep an eye on them not getting dehydrated, as cats go downhill fast when
they do.



On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 1:19 PM, Martha Walton wrote:

> Thanks Kathryn & Christiane.
> Both kittens just had diarrhea, no blood in the stool & no blood in the
> vomit.
>
> She is feeding them wet food, Friskies/wet and Meow Mix/wet.  I have tried
> to get the kittens to eat Before Grain wet food, but they will not eat it.
> The kittens will lap up a little water, but nothing excessive.  Problem is,
> they walk away and vomit up the water.
>
> Kittens were eating good Wednesday, Thursday & Friday.  I gave them some
> dry food on Thursday or Friday night, Natures Variety Instinct.  Maybe
> their tummies just didn't like the new food.
>
> I am very worried, the kittens go back to their home tomorrow AM.  The
> kittens have had the first round of shots & testing.  I have called their
> human parents twice and left two messages.
>
>  On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 4:26 PM, Christiane Biagi wrote:
>
>>  Are they eating the food they usually eat or did they have a change of
>> food when they came to your house?  
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
>> Of *Martha Walton
>> *Sent:* Sunday, November 04, 2012 3:42 PM
>> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>> *Subject:* [Felvtalk] Kitten Sitting, need suggestion
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> I am kitten-sitting two kittens this weekend for a friend.  The kittens
>> ate well for the first two days, but yesterday they turned their nose up at
>> food.  Today neither kitten is eating and they are both throwing up water.
>> Yesterday one of the kittens had diarrhea.  Neither has done #2 today.
>> Both kittens are playful, drinking water and alert, but I am very worried
>> about them not eating.  I have called their owner and left a message about
>> the vomiting.
>>
>> The owner says that both kittens have been tested for "all diseases".  I
>> have not let the kittens have contact with my 5 house-cats.  Today one of
>> my cats had some diarrhea, so I am hoping that the kittens are not getting
>> my cats sick..
>>
>> Any suggestions?  The kittens go back to their house tomorrow at 10:00am.
>>
>> I am using Tidy Cats Pure Nature for their cat litter.
>>
>> ___
>> Felvtalk mailing list
>> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>>
>>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.no-killnews.com/ (see the right sidebar)

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
___
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Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
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Re: [Felvtalk] Kitten Sitting, need suggestion

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Watch them for Panleuk symptoms: depression, hanging head (most of the
time, not just over the food/water bowl), loose/watery stools, vomitting,
low energy.

If they are throwing up just bile, then they are just hungry.   Can you
syringe some baby food into them to get them started eating again?   What
are you feeding?   If dry, switch to raw or healthy wet, such as Merrick's
Before Grain (plus 5% canned unspiced pumpkin).   You can also mix up half
and half goat milk and wet food.

I don't let my cats get around pine/cedar litter because of the phenols in
pine, which can be toxic to cat livers.  Supposedly, this is taken care of
in cat litters, but if it makes my bladder disease worse, then I don't
subject cats to it, either.  Not to mention this stuff is scented, to boot.

Use disposable gloves when handling the kittens.


On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 11:41 AM, Martha Walton wrote:

> I am kitten-sitting two kittens this weekend for a friend.  The kittens
> ate well for the first two days, but yesterday they turned their nose up at
> food.  Today neither kitten is eating and they are both throwing up water.
> Yesterday one of the kittens had diarrhea.  Neither has done #2 today.
> Both kittens are playful, drinking water and alert, but I am very worried
> about them not eating.  I have called their owner and left a message about
> the vomiting.
>
> The owner says that both kittens have been tested for "all diseases".  I
> have not let the kittens have contact with my 5 house-cats.  Today one of
> my cats had some diarrhea, so I am hoping that the kittens are not getting
> my cats sick..
>
> Any suggestions?  The kittens go back to their house tomorrow at 10:00am.
>
> I am using Tidy Cats Pure Nature for their cat litter.
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.no-killnews.com/ (see the right sidebar)

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
___
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Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
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Re: [Felvtalk] STORM - QUESTIONS/reply

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Dot,

Not sure if you're still on, but just saw this:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151219931374449.477932.144611599448&type=1

Having been in pre-hurricanes and Nor'easters, I don't know if this would
really work.   Seems the rocks are a bit small.   I've had plastic that I
nailed up ripped off my house.


Kathy


On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 6:54 AM, kat  wrote:

> Dot,
>
> Your husband sounds like a real kitty lover too!!  The shelters he has put
> together sound great and I hope the kitties weather the storm safely.
>
> I have been told that there is a high pressure system out in the Atlantic
> (near Iceland?) that is preventing Sandy from going out to sea. So I have
> been sending "dissipate" prayers to that system so that Sandy can change
> direction before making landfall this evening!! I'm located in the
> northwest corner of NJ, so I shouldn't get "hit", but losing power is
> always a concern.
>
> Your kitties are in my prayers!!
>
> Kat ("Mew"  Jersey)
>
>
>
>  - Original Message -
>
> From: dot winkler
>
> Sent: 10/28/12 09:11 PM
>
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] STORM - QUESTIONS/reply
>
>
> I am in Freehold, NJ. Inland  So, you are in New York?  Or is that near Long 
> Island?
>  Do you have any outdoor colonies?  My hub over the last year has built small 
> dog house type shelters (he is a carpenter) with tarping on the rooves.  They 
> are surrounded by tee pee pallets piled on each other.  Then covered in 
> tarping or plastic stapled on with his staple gun.  There are piles of 
> furniture dumped in the area and some of the houses are within those, 
> protected. There are 2 dry feed stations we just filled tonight.   I just 
> still am very worried.  Hoping they will be okay.  What experiences have you 
> had with storms and the cats?
>
>
> 
>  From: Christiane Biagi 
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2012 3:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] STORM - QUESTIONS
>
>
> Am in Westchester (New Rochelle).  Where are you?
>
> From:Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of dot 
> winkler
> Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2012 3:50 PM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: [Felvtalk] STORM - QUESTIONS
>
> I went to the outdoor cat colony and dumped large amounts of dry food in the 
> 2 protected stations.  I am very worried about the cats with the hurricane.  
> We constructed small dog-house like houses for them with tee pees around them 
> from wood pallets and some plastic.
> What's the general consensu?  How have any of your outdoor cat colonies done 
> in the hurricane situations?  In Hurricane Irene, the group did okay but this 
> one they are saying is worse.  Do any of you live around this area of the 
> hurricane approaching?
>
>
> 
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.no-killnews.com/ (see the right sidebar)

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
___
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Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] Recipe for stomatitis

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Hi,

Here it is:

*Holistic Stomatitis Protocol*


Note that holistic approaches take longer than do allopathic ones.   These
the supplements we've been using, but it doesn't mean some aren't
optional.  What seemed to turn things around was one course of antibiotics
along with Coptis Purge Fire.  You may have to continue with Coptis Purge
Fire forever.   We've just gotten rid of the stomatitis symptoms and have
not tried stopping the supplements.   It's better than extractions, which
some say only work 50% of the time, and are expensive and invasive to boot.

**

**

*Supplements*

Health Concerns  Coptis Purge Fire (2 tablets if 1 doesn't work)

CoQ10  30mg (Dr. Clark)

Vitamin A  25000 IU (Metagenics Mycelized Drops)

Vitamin E (dry, no soy)  200 IU (may be optional)

Lysine  500mg

Standard Process Whole Body Support  1/2 to 1 tablet

Standard Process Immune Support  1 tablet

Tumeric  450mg   1/2 capsule


*Can also try:*

Colostrum 100mg / Lactoferrin 10mg (separate from food)



*Palliative Homeopathy*

(as opposed to Classical)

Mercurius 30C



*Meds*

Antibiotics if really, really bad infections.  Can do it once to get things
to a level at which the cat can recover with supplements.  Use probiotics
separately (that is, at least an hour apart) for stomach flora.



*Cleanings*

Non-anesthetic sonic cleanings to keep gums clean.  Don't feed ground bones
if they are getting caught in any gum pockets; use calcium carbonate
supplments instead to balance the Ca:Phos ratio (about 1400 mg per pound of
ground meat).



*Topical*

Oxyfresh in the water.



*Pus in gums:* Myrhh. Make a dilution by adding 1 teaspoon of the tincture
(the alcoholic extract) to a cup of water. Gently apply this to the gums
once or twice a day. Either use a soft toothbrush or, if the gums are too
sensitive for this, flush the gums with this solution using a syringe.



*Diet*

Raw diet, per http://catnutrition.org   My recipe with local suppliers
available on request from khargrea...@gmail.com




Developed with the help of Dr. Audra MacCorkle
http://holisticanimaldoctor.com  and the forum folks on
http://holisticat.com



On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 12:19 PM, Lorrie  wrote:

> I also have a cat with stomatitis, so I'd like to see your "recipe"
> too.
>
> Lorrie
>
> On 10-27, dot winkler wrote:
> >Hi, Yes, I would love to know that holistic approach.
> >The first vet there when I brought Tiger in, said he had "stomatitis",
> >chronic condition.  When I called vet yesterday, other vet said "AIDS
> >pos" and that they pulled a lot of teeth and are giving anti b.  When
> I
> >asked specifically if he has the stomatitis to her, she said that he
> is
> >fine now so we have to wait and see if it recurs.
> >Please send me that recipe for it.  I will give it to my sis in law
> who
> >will be  taking the cat now.  Thanks so much.
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>



-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.no-killnews.com/ (see the right sidebar)

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] GOOGLE CHROME BROWSER/REPLY

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

It was Lorrie that couldn't get in.   I've seen it work in Firefox and
Safari.

Does Tiger still have stomatitis?My vet and I worked out a holistic
protocol that cured both my kitties that had stomatitis.   One had it so
bad, he spurted blood every time he opened his mouth.   I can send it to
you if you like.


On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 5:00 AM, dot winkler  wrote:

>
> Hi Kathryn:  Sorry you couldnt get in.  I use Google Chrome browser. My
> son said it shouldn't matter what browser you use.  (I'm sorry - I don't
> know a lot of technical stuff about computers.  LOL. )
> My home address is, also, in case you want to send by mail:
> Mrs. Dotty Winkler
> 37 Harrison Dr
> Freehold, NJ   07728
> Thank you for your kindness and care in this matter.  Tiger is vetted and
> on his way to getting to a new home - my sis in law and neice.  He had an
> extensive workup at the vet and has FIV pos (had stomatitis).  We hope for
> the best for him with my sis in law.  She'll give him lots of TLC and with
> good food and shelter, he will thrive.  I have a lot to do with all the
> others at the colony.  Goldie still remains an issue.  Thanks, Dot
>
>   --
> *From:* Kathryn Hargreaves 
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 27, 2012 12:02 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] CHIPIN ADDRESS/THUR NGHT REPLY
>
> The operating system shouldn't matter.   It's the browser.   What one are
> you using?   It works in Firefox (on a Mac, which is essentially *nix).
>
> http://farmingdalecats.chipin.com/cat-rescue-and-recovery
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 2:39 AM, Lorrie  wrote:
>
> Dot,
> The problem was I couldn't get into the chipin site to begin with. We
> don't use microsoft windows.  We use a "techy" operating system called
> LINUX/UNIX.  I'll see if my husband can figure out how to get in to
> this. It'll be later today. Now I have to go to my shelter/sanctuary
> in town.
>
>
>
> On 10-25, dot winkler wrote:
> >Hi - i read your e-mail Lorrie about trying to get into the Chipin
> acct
> >and you are having trouble.  My son fixed the pictures which were too
> >big initially but now you can see the box as soon as you get into the
> >site - the chipin box, I mean.  Simply click on that link;
> >http://farmingdalcats.chipin.com/cat-rescue-and-recvery and then you
> >can access the box.  Thank you so much.  Let me know if you still have
> >a problem.  Dot
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
>
>
> --
> 
> Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!
>
> If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save
> their life.  Contact your local pound for information. 
> <http://www.laanimalservices.com/volunteer_fostercare.htm>
>
> If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
> to free up cage space.
>
>
> Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
> implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/
>
> Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
> http://www.no-killnews.com/ (see the right sidebar)
>
> Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org
>
> More fun reading:
> http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/
>
> More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
> http://vimeo.com/48445902
>
>
>
> Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
> http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.
<http://www.laanimalservices.com/volunteer_fostercare.htm>

If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no

Re: [Felvtalk] CHIPIN ADDRESS/THUR NGHT REPLY

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

The operating system shouldn't matter.   It's the browser.   What one are
you using?   It works in Firefox (on a Mac, which is essentially *nix).

http://farmingdalecats.chipin.com/cat-rescue-and-recovery



On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 2:39 AM, Lorrie  wrote:

> Dot,
> The problem was I couldn't get into the chipin site to begin with. We
> don't use microsoft windows.  We use a "techy" operating system called
> LINUX/UNIX.  I'll see if my husband can figure out how to get in to
> this. It'll be later today. Now I have to go to my shelter/sanctuary
> in town.
>
>
>
> On 10-25, dot winkler wrote:
> >Hi - i read your e-mail Lorrie about trying to get into the Chipin
> acct
> >and you are having trouble.  My son fixed the pictures which were too
> >big initially but now you can see the box as soon as you get into the
> >site - the chipin box, I mean.  Simply click on that link;
> >http://farmingdalcats.chipin.com/cat-rescue-and-recvery and then you
> >can access the box.  Thank you so much.  Let me know if you still have
> >a problem.  Dot
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>



-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.no-killnews.com/ (see the right sidebar)

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
___
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Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] CHIPIN ADDRESS

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

The Chipin seems to go to Cat Rescue and Recovery by Dorothy Winkler (
venus7ora...@yahoo.com).


On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 2:30 AM, Lorrie  wrote:

> Dot, I have tried 5 times to get into the chipin address and cannot.
>
> I have no idea why.  How about paypal?  That works for me.  I cannot
> send you a lot, as I have 24 cats of my own plus a feral colony but
> I want to send something.
>
> Lorrie
>
>
> >http://farmingdalecats.chipin.com/cat-rescue-and-recovery.
> >Any generous donations will go toward the vetting cost of Tiger
> >(outdoor cat at Farmingdale) and Goldie (same).  They are in need of
> >vetting.  I am taking care of the colony of 7 the past 2 years and
> >socializing them, feeding and driving out to the site (not near my
> >home).  Two or three have a shot for adoption (I have my own 4 indoor
> >cats at home as well).  Please help in any way you can if possible and
> >I do appreciate the smallest of donations as times are tough.  Thanks
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>



-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.no-killnews.com/ (see the right sidebar)

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
___
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Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
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Re: [Felvtalk] Unusual kitten story

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Trappers around here do use kittens as ``bait.''   One way I worked out was
to put the kittens in a closed trap/whatever with the closed end of the
trap putting up against it.   Cover the trap except for both ends, and also
the kitten container, and the mom will see going through the trap as the
way to get to the kittens.   Others may do it differently, but that's the
general idea.   That way, you don't lose any kittens.


On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 4:21 AM, Lorrie  wrote:

> Hi Everyone,
>
> Here's a kitten story you should all enjoy. My daughter who helps
> me with rescue work and TNR, has a lot of stray cats at her house.
> There is one feral in particular she has been trying to trap for
> years. This cat produces at least 2 litters a year, and she hides
> the kittens and then brings them around when they are about 9 or
> 10 weeks and as wild as their mother is.  This year she brought
> her 3 kittens earlier than usual (about 3 or 4 weeks old) and my
> daughter was able to gather them up and bring them inside to be
> socialized. BUT how to catch the mom??  She has tried a trap to
> no avail. This is one smart mom cat!  So she set up a large plastic
> storage box on the front porch where she feeds all these strays,
> and put the kittens inside. She had a large screen to put on top
> if mom cat went inside, but she had to hide, as mom cat wouldn't
> go in if she saw Karin. Well quick as a flash the mother grabbed
> one of the kittens and ran!  Karin brought the other two back in
> and the mother cat had the other kitten outside someplace for 2
> days. Karin saw no sign of the third kitten, but when the weather
> got very cold and rainy she finally saw the mom and kitten on her
> porch.  Karin opened the door to get the kitten, and the mother
> tried to grab him and run but the kitten saw Karin and ran to
> her instead!
>
> I think this is an amazing story. Did that kitten remember being
> inside where it was warm, or had he bonded with my daughter before
> his cat mom stole him?  All 3 kittens are now safe, and warm inside
> and learning to eat well.
>
> I hope you enjoyed this story and I wonder if any of you have had
> similar stories to share.
>
> Lorrie and 14 rescued cats and Karin with 18 rescued cats!!
>
>
>
> - End forwarded message -
>
> ___
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> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>



-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.no-killnews.com/ (see the right sidebar)

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
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[Felvtalk] Fwd: Help for Goldie and Tiger

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

If you post the Chipin URL, I can network it to a couple of donation and
feral cat Yahoo groups.   Also, look on Red Rover's ``other financial
assistance" page for other resources (their program is for life-threatening
situation aid).  You can also Google something like "pet medical financial
assistance" to see if anything else comes up.   I have pages of lists, very
unorganized, so this may be a more up-to-date and complete way to start.
Also, if you put up a Facebook page for them, with some pictures (no exact
location, of course) that would help.   And send some pictures for the
email donation pleas, too.

Hope this helps.


On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 9:26 AM, dot winkler  wrote:

> Hi.  I was wondering if anyone had any ideas on how to raise money to help
> some of the cats in the Farmingdale colony that I have been taking care of
> for the past 2 years.  Two of them are in need of medical attention.
>  Goldie and Tiger.  Tiger has gotten much more affectionate and friendly
> with me the last 2 months.  He lets me pick him up.  My goal is to adopt
> some of them out (some of the friendlier ones like him). I have been
> working on this goal for some time now.   But he has started to sneeze the
> last 2 months and I almost got him in the cage last week and this week I
> will surely catch him with the help of my sister.  I have gone through so
> much money this summer, I'm sure you all know the story, as I took in a
> stray from our neighborhood (now have 4 indoor cats).  Financially, I need
> some assistance with Tiger and Goldie.  I don't want to let them go the
> winter - Gldie obviously has something stuck in his mouth and probably
> needs anti b as well as a full workup.  I am hopeful that I can catch him
> also with a little persistance. Tiger shows much hope if vetted.  My
> sister-in-law has offered to  recover him.
>  I have started a "CHIPIN" account.  I'm sure you all have seen it.  If
> anyone would like to donate and help out, it would be so much appreciated.
>  Tiger and Goldie would be relieved of their agony and it is heartbreaking
> to see them suffer with winter coming on.  I can't stand to watch it.  I
> want so much for the outcome of these cats to be a good one.  That is my
> goal.  If you find it in the goodness of your hearts to chip in even $1.00,
> it would be so wonderful as dollars add up.  Or if you have any other ideas
> of raising money.  I am in for surgery Nov 26th so time is of the essence
> as I have many dr appts and work is time-consuming.  Thanks to you all.
>  Dotty W.  Freehold, NJ
>
>

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.no-killnews.com/ (see the right sidebar)

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
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Re: [Felvtalk] I found something that works great on the FA and FL,

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

You're probably asking her how *she* makes CS, but I Googled "making
colloidal silver" and found some fun stuff!

I don't have any cats that either have cancer nor any of the viruii, but I
would not hesitate to try this.   If anyone does, please let us know if it
works for you, too!

Toni, do you continue giving them CS after they test negative?   What is
the daily dose at what PPM?   What was the dose you gave to get them to
negative?

Also, how much Limu per cat?   Usually one give 1/8 human dose, but you may
be doing something else.


Thanks!

On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 5:08 AM, MaiMaiPG  wrote:

> How do you make CS?
> On Oct 19, 2012, at 11:48 PM, Toni Probst wrote:
>
>
> I found something that works grat however I doubt seriouly you would even
> put the word out that it did work, but it was simple, it is called
> colloidal silver, and I also give them Limu now also to keep them healthy.
> It cured bother of my cats with FL and FA, and it has kept the others from
> getting it, no vet bills, no daily scripts to give them, They are healthy,
> do not test for it at all now, after 6 months. And I make the cs myself and
> dont have to buy it. It is so simple, Gods way of healing. The best way.
> Now I will hvae my cats living a long healthy life and I also , feed them
> holisticly only, I filter clean the water, and just all around best health.
> The vet was shocked and is even sharing it.
> --
>
> For God hath not given me the spirit of fear, but of power, and of love,
> and a sound mind ! (11 Tim 1;7)
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.no-killnews.com/ (see the right sidebar)

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
___
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Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
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Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

I this what you wrote?

``In my area they ahve an animal control for dogs, cats are just shot.''

According to Alley Cat Allies, it's illegal throughout the U.S. to shoot
cats.   Maybe that only applies to citizens.


On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 1:21 PM,  wrote:

>  Kathryn Hargreaves wrote: > What pound was this? > > That's one of
> the only good things about the pounds around here is that > they don't test
> for FIV/Felv, so then they don't kill for it. Of course, > I think they
> should test, and still not kill for it. > > These are the open-admission No
> Kill (saving 90%+) shelters in the U.S.: >
> http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ Since >
> they made you wait for an opening, they are not open-admission by that list
> > compiler's standards. There are many so-called no-kill (note the >
> lowercase letters) ``shelters'' that are not open-admission, and many say >
> they are no-kill even if they do kill, presumably to get donations. > > The
> only way you can absolutely tell if a pound is a No Kill shelter is to >
> somehow get their intake/transfer/kill stats---sometimes via FOIA (Freedom
> > of Information Act). If you're lucky, they post them on their website. >
> > Most pounds in this country are just killing machines, unfortunately. See
> > the bottom of my messages for how to change this. Fortunately, now that >
> people know it can be done, they are demanding their pounds become No Kill
> > shelters. All it will take is time. Hopefully, in my lifetime. > > > On
> Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 7:15 AM, Alev Durmus wrote: > > > Dear all, > > > > I
> feel for all of you who lost your cat(s). I have lost one too many and I >
> > can't bring myself to think losing another one. I would like to share > >
> something with you all and ask your opinions and advice since I am not > >
> originally from the US and I don't know how things go over here plus I > >
> might not be thinking straight because I am very upset. This happened on >
> > Saturday and I have been crying since... > > > > I came across to this
> cat-we named her River-less than 2 weeks ago cross > > the road from my
> home in an unused shed. I usually don't look around but > > for some
> reason, I looked towards the shed and there she was looking at > > me...She
> was not moving a lot, sickly and skinny. I started feeding her, > > she ate
> a lot and became more energetic in 2 days. She had started > > wandering
> around since she wasn't starving anymore and I became afraid of > > coyotes
> killing her or cold weather coming soon. I called the local no-kill > >
> shelter to ask what to do. They told me to take pictures and uploaded on >
> > their facebook page in order to locate her owners. She definitely had > >
> owners once and probably was dumped...She was a very loving sweet cat. I >
> > suspected, being a house cat she didn't know what to do to feed herself
> and > > that's why she was in that shape. After a while she was so great,
> even if > > she was not in the shed, she would come running when I called
> her. A few > > days later shelter called and said they had an opening for
> her. This was a > > good timing because of freeze warning coming to our
> way. I already have > > another cat and I didn't want to bring her home
> without knowing that she is > > healthy...We-me and the kids-were so happy
> to bring her to safety. They > > asked me to sign a form saying that I gave
> all her rights to the shelter. I > > was puzzled but knowing that it was a
> no-kill shelter I was > > not that concerned. I put a note saying that I
> was not the owner and she > > probably had an owner...I asked a lot of
> questions, when would we know > > about her health, how can we adopt her,
> can I visit her etc.? I told them > > we were planning to adopt her but my
> husband needed to be convinced...They > > told me the vet would be coming
> on Thursday and the blood test would be > > back and she would be in pet
> finder after a while. They said no to > > visitation and no to adopting her
> right from the shelter...I said what if > > someone adopts her before we
> see the ad, please call me etc...And then we > > left. I didn't know that I
> brought her to her death by my hands thinking I > > was doing the right
> thing... > > > > I called them Saturday and they informed me that they "put
> her to sleep" > > on Friday because she had FeLV+...I said why 

Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Where are you?

Just be careful about anything that resembles mandatory spay/neuter laws,
as they apparently are counterproductive, and may be in this case, too.
 See:  https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=152006964816562 or Google
"ryan clinton mandatory spay neuter"   Here in L.A., pound intakes went
down in when they implemented low-cost s/n (in 1971), but not when they
implemented MSN a couple of years ago.

Also, seems any kind of sterilization should suffice, not just spay/neuter,
especially in light of this study: http://www.gpmcf.org/respectovaries.html
Seems if you have an Felv+ female cat who's lifespan is already in danger
of being shortened, then you'd want to keep anything (i.e., ovaries) that
could lengthen it.



On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 12:48 PM, Lee Evans  wrote:

> I just looked up the stats for 2011 for Animal Care Services, our city run
> "shelter".  Well, they are better than 10 years ago when ACS was killing
> over 50,000 a year, with the breakdown of 18,000+ cats and the rest dogs.
> So we can be called a "less kill" city.  But far from anything logical. In
> 2011 they killed 21,822 of which 6,813 were cats.  This year's funding
> (2012) is about $9.3 million wasted dollars.  The sad thing is that we
> could be no-kill in about a year, maybe 2 at the most with the proper
> advertising and expenditure of funds.
>
> Right now TNR is allowed but it is not funded by the City.  Right now we
> have a grant from Best Friends for free and low cost spay/neuter, but only
> in certain zip codes.  What would be needed is about a dozen mobile clinics
> to be circulating in all the neighborhoods at all times, a mass teaching
> effort to have people trap and bring feral cats and owned dogs to the
> clinic for FREE spay and neuter operations.
>
> An ordinance requiring apartment building owners and duplex owners to
> write into the leases of the tenants a spay/neuter clause that no one gets
> to rent an apartment if their pet is not spayed/neutered and proof shown to
> the manager/owner.  A whole lot of stray cats and dogs come from tenants
> who abandon their pets when they move to another apartment or whose pets go
> outside and get lost and pregnant.  If they abandon a spayed/neutered pet,
> that's only one animal put out.  If the animal isn't fixed, it's dozens of
> future animals born from that one animal.  This is a REAL problem and leads
> management to call Animal Control to clean up the mess and kill the
> animals. Meanwhile feeders are trying to do TNR under the radar because
> management hasn't gotten educated that TNR actually helps the problem not
> increases it.
>
> Since most people work outside of their home or during set hours of day,
> it would make more sense to have the free and low cost clinics open during
> the evening to late evening - from 5:00 PM to 10:00 PM for intake with
> operations done during the morning and animal pick up in the next evening,
> same hours as intake, and regular hours on weekends, Saturday and Sunday
> during the day.  At least something more logical than rushing around at
> 6:00 AM to get the cat to the clinic, the kids to school or daycare and the
> adult to work.  Then reversing it to pick up the kid at daycare or school,
> and the adult to the clinic before it closes to get the cat.
>
> The technology is available but the intelligence and sense to use it seems
> to be lacking in people we put in positions of authority. Shelters have
> become big business.  Even prisons are becoming big business. So the fact
> that more and more illogical laws are passed putting people behind bars
> doesn't bother  our government because it's "good for business".  Having
> too many kids is big business because it sells more diapers, more toys,
> more kids clothes, more cribs, etc..  Even being sick is big business so
> hospitals are allowed to raise rates, more tests than are needed are done.
> More animals are killed testing new drugs that could be tested in half the
> time using upgraded technology.  Sigh.  I need to get off this Soap Box and
> go clean the litter boxes.
>
>
> Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty
> neighbors too!
>
>
>   --
> *From:* Kathryn Hargreaves 
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 17, 2012 10:13 AM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
>
> Yes, per Gavin Nicols' comment on http://www.no-killnews.com/?p=3935 San
> Antonio is nowhere near No Kill (90%+), even if they considered FIV+/Felv+
> cats healthy, which you indicate they don't: ``For 2012 Fiscal Year to
> Date, the healthy and treatable dogs and cat

Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Yes, per Gavin Nicols' comment on http://www.no-killnews.com/?p=3935 San
Antonio is nowhere near No Kill (90%+), even if they considered FIV+/Felv+
cats healthy, which you indicate they don't: ``For 2012 Fiscal Year to
Date, the healthy and treatable dogs and cats make up 76% of total intake
(in 2011, healthy and treatable was 66% of total intake).''  This is an
issue that needs to be discussed in the No Kill community.

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Lee Evans  wrote:

> Beth, How wonderful you are.  I had a similar but happier experience.  I
> was known in my city as a rescuer and am on the Board of an animal rights
> organization.  However, I surrendered many cats to the Humane Society, a
> supposedly no-kill shelter in San Antonio, Tx.  Whenever I filled out the
> surrender form, I always added that the cat must be returned to me for any
> reason at any time, whether it was FIV or FeLv or some other situation that
> made the cat unadoptable.  I put it all over the form, told the intake
> people and they agreed.  I knew that they killed FIV+ and FeLv+ cats
> without asking questions.  Most people don't realize this or just don't
> care as long as they can tell themselves that they did their best for the
> cat.  In addition, the HS allows anyone to visit with the cats in
> visitation rooms, small cubicles with cat toys where the cats can be
> handled and potential adopters can get to know them.  This shelter is
> better than most because their intake form does have a place to state that
> the people surrendering the cat can have him/her back in case of something
> that makes the cat unadoptable.  Anyway, one evening the supervising intake
> person called me.  She was near tears.  I hadn't surrendered any cats so I
> wondered what was wrong.  She said that they had gotten in two young,
> gorgeous cats who had tested FIV+ and she was ordered to have them
> euthanized the next day.  She asked me if I would foster, since she knew I
> did not euthanize FIV+ cats.  I had none at the time, but I had about 20
> other cats.  So I told her that if she took the two cats who were occupying
> my spare room at that time and who tested negative for everything, were
> already fixed and had their rabies shots I would take the FIV+ cats.  The
> exchange was made before the shelter opened the next day.  This was
> entirely against the rules but no one complained.  I got Sugar Plum Fairy,
> a lovely blue-eyed white cat who was NOT deaf and Sir Walter, a husky,
> healthy tabby and white boy.  Both were fixed and had their rabies shots.
> That was about 7 years ago. I named the white one Sugar Plum Fairy and the
> tabby and white Sir Walter because he looked regal. Sugar Plum Fairy is
> still with me along with 4 other FIV+ cats who live in separate quarters
> from my main group.  Sir Walter passed a month ago from kidney cancer.  Up
> until a month before he passed, he was a happy, overweight puss with an
> attitude.  Sugar is fine because she has other companions.  I also have two
> FIV+ cats mixed in with my main group because they are lay back
> non-fighters who get along with everyone.  No kill shelters are becoming
> much more aware that FIV and FeLv do not have to be a death sentence for
> cats surrendered to them.  It's so awful that Alev had such a painful
> experience.  This used to be the norm in this country but things are slowly
> changing.  We always have to speak up for the cats and make sure that we
> have an understanding when we surrender one to a shelter that they will
> return the cat if anything is wrong.  Get it in writing and call
> frequently, visit frequently if you can to see how your cat is doing.  The
> two who were exchanged for Sugar and Wally got adopted within two weeks of
> arriving at the shelter.  FIV is not contagious unless the cats get into a
> major biting and fighting situation.  Most FIV+ cats who are neutered do
> not bite and fight since this is behavior during mating season.  However,
> the five cats I have in my special FIV section exhibited some left over
> hostility tendencies from their pre-neuter days.  That's why they are
> separate from my main group.  The two who are mixed in never exhibited even
> a hiss at anyone.
>
>
> Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty
> neighbors too!
>
>
>   --
>


Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http:

Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Sorry, Gmail messed up my link (says one thing and goes somewhere else)!
Here it is, all fixed up:

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.no-killnews.com/ (see the right sidebar)

If your shelter meets the criteria on http://www.no-killnews.com/?page_id=8 and
is not in this list, then alert the blog author.   She's trying to find No
Kill communities as fast as she can, and it helps her if you tell her.  You
can subscribe to the email alerts (form in the left sidebar), and then
email her your information.  (This goes for everyone, not just Beth.)   The
more shelters we know about, the more we can convince/force kill shelters
to change their ways.


On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 10:55 AM, Beth  wrote:

> These all look like Animal Control Facilities.
> Our shelter is definitely no-kill & we are not on there.
>
> Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org <http://www.furkids.org/>
>
>
>   ------
> *From:* Kathryn Hargreaves 
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 16, 2012 1:07 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
>
> Yes, and some have even gone so far as to define ``adoptable'' as those
> for which they have cages!  Outta space, outta luck.
>
>
> As Christine probably knows, there are over 200 cities/towns that are now
> No Kill.  As for No Kill places being hard to find, at least someone is
> looking for them.   In fact, I just realized that my link to the No Kill
> communities list is outdated and should be replaced with this, which is the
> above someone's blog:
>
> Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
> http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ (see the
> right sidebar)
>
>
>
>
>
-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.
<http://www.laanimalservices.com/volunteer_fostercare.htm>

If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/<http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/>

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.no-killnews.com/ (see the right sidebar)

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
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Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Although that could be a good warning shot, they may just ignore you and
not doing anything.

The way to change things is to go to, say, the city council, or whomever
hired them, and tell them you do not like what this pound is doing.
Whatever you do, act professional.   Dress professionally and tell them
calmly you are a constituent who is concerned about what is going on.


On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 9:11 AM, Alev Durmus  wrote:

> Hi Christiane,
>
> Thank you so much...I am so sorry to find out about all these a little too
> late...Yes, they show kittens, young cats, but very few seniors on their
> website for adoption...They are a kill shelter and people do not know this.
> People are happily donating money thinking they are helping the animals,
> but they are helping them to be killed too. What can I do to change this? I
> want to send them an email, what should I say? I want to say the right
> things and not sound like a crazy woman...
>
> Thank you so much for your kind words, maybe River will be the reason that
> this shelter does something about their policy. You (and the animals in
> that area) are very lucky. Take care,
>
> Alev
>   --
> *From:* Christiane Biagi 
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:49 PM
>
> *Subject:* [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
>
> The caveat to the “no kill” (as defined in the Asilomar Accords) is that
> all it means is they will not kill adoptable animals.  Unfortunately, its
> up to the individual shelter/rescue to define what they consider
> “adoptable”.  All too often, facilities that advertise themselves as “no
> kill” really mean that they will kill all ill, senior, problem behavior,
> etc. animals but never kill a healthy easily adoptable animals.  These
> kinds of facilities never ever publish their "euthanasia matrix” which is
> where they define their policy on who they will kill.  True no kills (as we
> think it means & as defined by Nathan Winograd) are tough to find.  I
> volunteer for one such shelter in New Orleans (ARNO) & the handful of
> animals they’ve put down have been terminally ill animals who were either
> comatose or in intractable pain.  They never put down for fiv or felv!
>
> The shelter you cited clearly is a kill shelter & why they wouldn’t have
> alerted you to the cat’s test results & given you some time demonstrates an
> attitude that is unfortunately all too common.  I’m so sorry this happened
> to you but please know that River had love from you—something she likely
> hadn’t had in a very long time.
>
> *From:* Felvtalk 
> [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org]
> *On Behalf Of *Alev Durmus
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 16, 2012 11:15 AM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
>
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.no-killnews.com/
(see
the right sidebar)

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Los Angeles.  Neither the city not the county pounds test.


On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 9:11 AM, CATHERINE DIDONNA wrote:

> around here doesn't say where you are??
>
>   *From:* Kathryn Hargreaves 
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:29 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
>
> I (and others) use the term ``pound'' for all so-called ``shelters'' that
> are not truly No Kill (saving 90%+).
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 8:26 AM, Beth  wrote:
>
>  According to her email it wasn't a pound, it was a so-called no-kill
> shelter.
> "Pounds" are usually owned by the local municipality.
>
>
> Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! http://www.furkids.org/
>
>
>*From:* Kathryn Hargreaves 
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Cc:* Alev Durmus 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:19 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
>
> What pound was this?
>
> That's one of the only good things about the pounds around here is that
> they don't test for FIV/Felv, so then they don't kill for it.   Of course,
> I think they should test, and still not kill for it.
>
> These are the open-admission No Kill (saving 90%+) shelters in the U.S.:
> http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/   Since
> they made you wait for an opening, they are not open-admission by that list
> compiler's standards.   There are many so-called no-kill (note the
> lowercase letters) ``shelters'' that are not open-admission, and many say
> they are no-kill even if they do kill, presumably to get donations.
>
> The only way you can absolutely tell if a pound is a No Kill shelter is to
> somehow get their intake/transfer/kill stats---sometimes via FOIA (Freedom
> of Information Act).  If you're lucky, they post them on their website.
>
> Most pounds in this country are just killing machines, unfortunately.
> See the bottom of my messages for how to change this.  Fortunately, now
> that people know it can be done, they are demanding their pounds become No
> Kill shelters.   All it will take is time.  Hopefully, in my lifetime.
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
>
>
> --
> 
> Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!
>
> If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save
> their life.  Contact your local pound for information. 
> <http://www.laanimalservices.com/volunteer_fostercare.htm>
>
> If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
> to free up cage space.
>
>
> Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
> implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/
>
> Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
> http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/
>
> Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org
>
> More fun reading:
> http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/
>
> More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
> http://vimeo.com/48445902
>
>
>
> Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
> http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.
<http://www.laanimalservices.com/volunteer_fostercare.htm>

If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/<http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/>

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.no-killnews.com/<http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/>
(see
the righ

Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Yes, and some have even gone so far as to define ``adoptable'' as those for
which they have cages!  Outta space, outta luck.


As Christine probably knows, there are over 200 cities/towns that are now
No Kill.  As for No Kill places being hard to find, at least someone is
looking for them.   In fact, I just realized that my link to the No Kill
communities list is outdated and should be replaced with this, which is the
above someone's blog:

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.no-killnews.com/
(see
the right sidebar)



On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Christiane Biagi wrote:

> The caveat to the “no kill” (as defined in the Asilomar Accords) is that
> all it means is they will not kill adoptable animals.  Unfortunately, its
> up to the individual shelter/rescue to define what they consider
> “adoptable”.  All too often, facilities that advertise themselves as “no
> kill” really mean that they will kill all ill, senior, problem behavior,
> etc. animals but never kill a healthy easily adoptable animals.  These
> kinds of facilities never ever publish their "euthanasia matrix” which is
> where they define their policy on who they will kill.  True no kills (as we
> think it means & as defined by Nathan Winograd) are tough to find.  I
> volunteer for one such shelter in New Orleans (ARNO) & the handful of
> animals they’ve put down have been terminally ill animals who were either
> comatose or in intractable pain.  They never put down for fiv or felv!  **
> **
>
> ** **
>
> The shelter you cited clearly is a kill shelter & why they wouldn’t have
> alerted you to the cat’s test results & given you some time demonstrates an
> attitude that is unfortunately all too common.  I’m so sorry this happened
> to you but please know that River had love from you—something she likely
> hadn’t had in a very long time.
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Felvtalk 
> [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org]
> *On Behalf Of *Alev Durmus
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 16, 2012 11:15 AM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Yes, that term is bandied about, too.

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 8:38 AM, Alev Durmus  wrote:

> They may call themselves a "shelter" but killing the animals dragged them
> down to a level of  a "pound" I would call them a "death camp" if you ask
> me...
> This shelter/pound I brought River is a charity organization I believe and
> works with donations.
>
>
> Alev
>   --
> *From:* Beth 
> *To:* "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org" 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:26 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
>
> According to her email it wasn't a pound, it was a so-called no-kill
> shelter.
> "Pounds" are usually owned by the local municipality.
>
>
> Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org <http://www.furkids.org/>
>
>
>   --
> *From:* Kathryn Hargreaves 
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Cc:* Alev Durmus 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:19 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
>
> What pound was this?
>
> That's one of the only good things about the pounds around here is that
> they don't test for FIV/Felv, so then they don't kill for it.   Of course,
> I think they should test, and still not kill for it.
>
> These are the open-admission No Kill (saving 90%+) shelters in the U.S.:
> http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/   Since
> they made you wait for an opening, they are not open-admission by that list
> compiler's standards.   There are many so-called no-kill (note the
> lowercase letters) ``shelters'' that are not open-admission, and many say
> they are no-kill even if they do kill, presumably to get donations.
>
> The only way you can absolutely tell if a pound is a No Kill shelter is to
> somehow get their intake/transfer/kill stats---sometimes via FOIA (Freedom
> of Information Act).  If you're lucky, they post them on their website.
>
> Most pounds in this country are just killing machines, unfortunately.
> See the bottom of my messages for how to change this.  Fortunately, now
> that people know it can be done, they are demanding their pounds become No
> Kill shelters.   All it will take is time.  Hopefully, in my lifetime.
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.
<http://www.laanimalservices.com/volunteer_fostercare.htm>

If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/<http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/>

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

I (and others) use the term ``pound'' for all so-called ``shelters'' that
are not truly No Kill (saving 90%+).


On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 8:26 AM, Beth  wrote:

> According to her email it wasn't a pound, it was a so-called no-kill
> shelter.
> "Pounds" are usually owned by the local municipality.
>
>
> Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org <http://www.furkids.org/>
>
>
>   --
> *From:* Kathryn Hargreaves 
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Cc:* Alev Durmus 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:19 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
>
> What pound was this?
>
> That's one of the only good things about the pounds around here is that
> they don't test for FIV/Felv, so then they don't kill for it.   Of course,
> I think they should test, and still not kill for it.
>
> These are the open-admission No Kill (saving 90%+) shelters in the U.S.:
> http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/   Since
> they made you wait for an opening, they are not open-admission by that list
> compiler's standards.   There are many so-called no-kill (note the
> lowercase letters) ``shelters'' that are not open-admission, and many say
> they are no-kill even if they do kill, presumably to get donations.
>
> The only way you can absolutely tell if a pound is a No Kill shelter is to
> somehow get their intake/transfer/kill stats---sometimes via FOIA (Freedom
> of Information Act).  If you're lucky, they post them on their website.
>
> Most pounds in this country are just killing machines, unfortunately.
> See the bottom of my messages for how to change this.  Fortunately, now
> that people know it can be done, they are demanding their pounds become No
> Kill shelters.   All it will take is time.  Hopefully, in my lifetime.
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.
<http://www.laanimalservices.com/volunteer_fostercare.htm>

If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/<http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/>

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

What pound was this?

That's one of the only good things about the pounds around here is that
they don't test for FIV/Felv, so then they don't kill for it.   Of course,
I think they should test, and still not kill for it.

These are the open-admission No Kill (saving 90%+) shelters in the U.S.:
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/   Since
they made you wait for an opening, they are not open-admission by that list
compiler's standards.   There are many so-called no-kill (note the
lowercase letters) ``shelters'' that are not open-admission, and many say
they are no-kill even if they do kill, presumably to get donations.

The only way you can absolutely tell if a pound is a No Kill shelter is to
somehow get their intake/transfer/kill stats---sometimes via FOIA (Freedom
of Information Act).  If you're lucky, they post them on their website.

Most pounds in this country are just killing machines, unfortunately.   See
the bottom of my messages for how to change this.  Fortunately, now that
people know it can be done, they are demanding their pounds become No Kill
shelters.   All it will take is time.  Hopefully, in my lifetime.


On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 7:15 AM, Alev Durmus  wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> I feel for all of you who lost your cat(s). I have lost one too many and I
> can't bring myself to think losing another one. I would like to share
> something with you all and ask your opinions and advice since I am not
> originally from the US and I don't know how things go over here plus I
> might not be thinking straight because I am very upset. This happened on
> Saturday and I have been crying since...
>
> I came across to this cat-we named her River-less than 2 weeks ago cross
> the road from my home in an unused shed. I usually don't look around but
> for some reason, I looked towards the shed and there she was looking at
> me...She was not moving a lot, sickly and skinny. I started feeding her,
> she ate a lot and became more energetic in 2 days. She had started
> wandering around since she wasn't starving anymore and I became afraid of
> coyotes killing her or cold weather coming soon. I called the local no-kill
> shelter to ask what to do. They told me to take pictures and uploaded on
> their facebook page in order to locate her owners. She definitely had
> owners once and probably was dumped...She was a very loving sweet cat. I
> suspected, being a house cat she didn't know what to do to feed herself and
> that's why she was in that shape. After a while she was so great, even if
> she was not in the shed, she would come running when I called her. A few
> days later shelter called and said they had an opening for her. This was a
> good timing because of freeze warning coming to our way. I already have
> another cat and I didn't want to bring her home without knowing that she is
> healthy...We-me and the kids-were so happy to bring her to safety. They
> asked me to sign a form saying that I gave all her rights to the shelter. I
> was puzzled but knowing that it was a no-kill shelter I was
> not that concerned. I put a note saying that I was not the owner and she
> probably had an owner...I asked a lot of questions, when would we know
> about her health, how can we adopt her, can I visit her etc.? I told them
> we were planning to adopt her but my husband needed to be convinced...They
> told me the vet would be coming on Thursday and the blood test would be
> back and she would be in pet finder after a while. They said no to
> visitation and no to adopting her right from the shelter...I said what if
> someone adopts her before we see the ad, please call me etc...And then we
> left. I didn't know that I brought her to her death by my hands thinking I
> was doing the right thing...
>
> I called them Saturday and they informed me that they "put her to sleep"
> on Friday because she had FeLV+...I said why didn't you call? no
> answer...Between killing an animal and making a phone call they picked
> killing her. After I read online that there are many false positive on this
> test ( I don;t think anyone bothered to do the second test) and even if she
> was positive she could be living a long life in a one-cat household...I
> can't believe any animal lover would be that quick to kill one without
> exploring other options or calling someone-me- who showed extreme interest
> on saving this cat...Please anyone let me know if this is what they do in
> the shelters? Is there anything we can do to change their policy? She even
> gave me a line of " oh, you did such a good job taking care of her, she
> would have died if not for you"
>
> No one ever mentioned me killing the cat-never...If they did I wouldn't
> leave River there.
>
> Please drop me a few lines, I am still crying and I think I owe this to
> River to at least question their actions...I can't even look over the shed
> which is cross the road from my home-impossible to avoid and couldn't even
> tell the kids what happened...
>
> Thank

Re: [Felvtalk] Off topic, of interest to many: Webcast: Fixing the Feline Housing Crisis (how sheltertsd canb make cats sick!!!)

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

They make these available afterwards as videos:
http://www.maddiesfund.org/Resource_Library/Maddies_Video_Library/Shelter_Medicine_Videos.html


On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 3:57 PM,  wrote:

> Will they ahve something in print for those of us who cannot go to this?
>  Would like to take to local no kill shelter.  they ahve a problem with
> housing.  I know they ar short on funds, but constructive critismnever
> hurts.
>
>
>  Natalie > wrote: > If anyone is interested, let me know, and I will
> send the entire page, how to register, with info privately; it’s too large
> to send to this group! > > > > My new email address is: atia@gmail.com> > 
> > > > > > > Fixing the Feline Housing Crisis: How Shelter Housing Can
> Make Cats Sick – And What You Can Do About It > > It's a feline housing
> revolution – and it’s helping stop shelter cat upper respiratory infections
> in their tracks! > > > Image removed by sender. large_box_bottom.gif > > >
> Image removed by sender. spacer.gif > > > Cats are extremely sensitive to
> noise, crowding, and stress – three things that are in abundant supply in
> many animal shelters. These adverse conditions often lead to illness in
> sheltered cats, particularly the most common of all feline shelter
> diseases, upper respiratory infection (URI). > The good news is that with a
> “feline wellness renovation project” – decreasing crowding and reducing
> stress – you can drastically cut the incidence of feline URI in your
> shelter's cat population. > Maddie's InstituteSM is pleased to announce the
> second in a two-part series on feline URI in shelters: Fixing the Feline
> Housing Crisis: How Shelter Housing Can Make Cats Sick - And What You Can
> Do About It. Join us for this free webcast on Thursday, October 25, at 9 PM
> Eastern, presented by Dr. Sandra Newbury of the Koret Shelter Medicine
> Program at the UC Davis School of Veterinary Medicine. > > Attendees will
> learn: > > * How to understand the natural behavior of cats > * How to set
> up shelter housing to reduce stress > * The importance of giving cats a
> place to hide when stressed or fearful > * The impact of housing cats near
> dogs > * How improvements in noise levels, light cycles, and enrichment can
> benefit cats > * Temperature, air quality and ventilation requirements for
> URI prevention > * How to understand exposure risks > * How to set up
> separation and isolation for sick cats > > Individuals attending the live
> webcast will be entered in a door prize drawing for one of ten copies of
> Maddie's® Animal Shelter Infection Control Manual! > Fixing the Feline
> Housing Crisis: How Shelter Housing Can Make Cats Sick - And What You Can
> Do About It, is part of an ongoing series of educational programs from
> Maddie's Institute, a program of Maddie's Fund®, the nation's leading
> funder of shelter medicine education. Maddie's Institute brings cutting
> edge shelter medicine information from universities and animal welfare
> leaders to shelter veterinarians, managers and staff as well as private
> practice veterinarians, rescue groups and community members to increase the
> lifesaving of homeless dogs and cats community-wide. > > _ > >
> Presenter: Sandra Newbury, DVM > > > > > > >
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>



-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
___
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Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
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[Felvtalk] Fwd: The Price of Cat Food

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Sending again.  Gmail makes it difficult to trim posts, as it doesn't show
everything.

-- Forwarded message --
From: Kathryn Hargreaves 
Date: Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 9:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] The Price of Cat Food
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org


These were the links she gave:  ``For the past year I've been planning
ahead and buying discounted PetSmart gift cards through
http://www.giftcardbin.com/ and http://www.cardpool.com/  They also have
petco cards but nothing for Costco.''


On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 8:35 PM, Lee Evans  wrote:

> Hey Susan, where do you get PetsMart discounted gift cards.  I have never
> seen them.  Is this one of those online places or eBay or where?
>
>
>
> Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty
> neighbors too!
>
>
>--
> *From:* Susan Hoffman 
> *To:* "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org" 
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 11, 2012 2:22 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] The Price of Cat Food
>
> I spend about $1000 a month with a population that ranges from 25-40,
> depending on adoptions and new intake.  We feed primarily canned but with
> dry (mostly Kirkland Premium and the no-grain in the orange bag).  It's a
> big chunk of money every month but the cats are happy and healthy.
>
> For the past year I've been planning ahead and buying discounted PetSmart
> gift cards through http://www.giftcardbin.com/ and
> http://www.cardpool.com/  They also have petco cards but nothing for
> Costco.  Take a look.  It really has helped my budget.  (I recently
> combined gift cards discounted by 18% with the PetSmart Friends & Family
> sale discount of 15%, and used a few random coupons.  For awhile there I
> had a lot of cases of friskies stacked up in the living room!)
>


Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.
<http://www.laanimalservices.com/volunteer_fostercare.htm>

If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/<http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/>

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
___
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Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
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Re: [Felvtalk] The Price of Cat Food

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

I spend half again that much.However, it's not a numbers game, it's
what you can handle.   I know of someone who has 40 colonies in three
cities.   She gets up at 2:30 a.m. each morning to do half each day, and
then goes to work full time.  (BTW, she spends $1000/month on mostly
kibble.)

Do you have pet food banks near you?   You can also contact pet food stores
to see if they will give you outdated food.   Even if the cans are dented,
they are OK, as they have a protective lining.


On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 6:13 PM,  wrote:

> I never thought about that!  I cry at $100 a month. $1000 would give me
> heart failure!  Will try those cards.  Great idea!
>
>
>  Susan Hoffman > wrote: > I spend about $1000 a month with a
> population that ranges from 25-40, depending on adoptions and new intake.




Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] The Price of Cat Food

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

It's even worse than that:
http://siriusdog.com/rendering-plants-pet-food.htm   And I've heard that at
a local plant, the animals weren't even all dead.   The tough guy who told
me that was crying, so I believe him.

On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 8:02 AM, Lee Evans  wrote:

> Yum!  It's lunch time here.  So glad I'm a vegetarian and don't have to
> face a plate of meat after that tidbit of information.  But yes, cats do
> eat the whole animal and I won't get into the things that they have so
> generously given me after they caught a bird or lizard but they don't eat
> cows or sheep or pigs or intestines with the crap in them and that's what
> commercial by-products are.  No one is going to empty and wash out
> intestines before adding them to the heap.
>
>
>
> Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty
> neighbors too!
>
>
>   --
> *From:* Kathryn Hargreaves 
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Sent:* Friday, October 12, 2012 4:36 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] The Price of Cat Food
>
> They do eat by-products when they eat the whole prey, but they are getting
> all the rest, too, which they don't get with just by-products (where the
> good stuff has been taken out for human consumption).   By-products contain
> much less nutrition and are often indigestible.  Note that cats also get
> some minerals by eating the dirt that's on the animals.   Guess that's why
> some feral feeders just put the food on the ground.  :-)
>
> That has always surprised me when people report that their cat doesn't eat
> the organs, as those (exept for feces-filled intestines) are the most
> nutritious things in the prey's body, and also (I've read that) the big
> cats eat the organs first and bury the rest of the body for the next day.
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 12:22 PM,  wrote:
>
> While we are on the subject of raw diet, don't they eat some of those
> things when they catch a mouse, rabbit or squirrel or bird?  The only
> things my guys don't eat are the organs, especially intestines.  Other
> wise, they eat the whole thing.
>
>
>
-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.
<http://www.laanimalservices.com/volunteer_fostercare.htm>

If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/<http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/>

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] The Price of Cat Food

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Actually, a lot of ferals live on/supplement with insects.   We don't have
water bugs inside here, but I've seen them around, so the cats must be
eating them.(BTW, just read that insects are the healthiest meat humans
can eat, as they are low-fat and animal fat is hard on humans.)


On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 3:34 AM, molvey...@hotmail.com <
molvey...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> **
> Should have tied a string to the rabbit and dragged it along the floor.
>  They chase and eat anything that moves in my house!  If flies had enough
> protein several of mine could live off them.
>
> Sent from my HTC Inspire™ 4G on AT&T
>
>
> - Reply message -
> From: dlg...@windstream.net
> To: 
> Subject: [Felvtalk] The Price of Cat Food
> Date: Fri, Oct 12, 2012 4:09 pm
>
>
>
> i TRIED RABBIT FROM A NEIGHBOR WHO RAISES HIS ORGANIC FOR HIS OWN FOOD.  THEY 
> LOOKED AT IT LIKE IT WAS ALIEN, WOULD NOT EVEN TOUCH IT.  I ONLY HAVE 7, BUT 
> KEEPING ENOUGH MEAT FOR THEM WOULD BE A PROBLEM.  i HAVE A SIDE BY SIDE AND 
> THE FREEZER IS NOT THAT LARGE.  AND GETTING IT OUT IN TIME TO THAW WOULD BE A 
> PROBLEM WITH MY MEMORY.
>
>  Lee Evans  > wrote:
> > It would be nice if I could do that but I'm feeding around 35 cats right 
> > now.  Feeding raw would cost me around $9 a day with turns into around $250 
> > a month.  On top of which, I would be a little nervous to feed raw chicken 
> > to the cats.  Some of them probably wouldn't even understand what it was 
> > while others might throw it up at first.  Cooked chicken would add about 3 
> > hours work to my day.  My freezer would be full of frozen chicken, not 
> > defrosted in time for their dinner and I would go insane.
>
> The dry food costs me about $100 - $150 a month.  With the price of Kirkland 
> going up it would cost me about equal to that because they eat less of the 
> Kirkland due to fat content.  Seems to fill them up better.  I used to buy 
> Friskies regular type, and Purina Cat Chow (no one wanted to eat that).  Then 
> I bought HEB brand Hill Country Fair and all the cats began throwing up in 
> unison.  Stopped buying that also.  They seem to be able to digest Paws and 
> Claws, the Tractor Supply brand that cost $20 for 36 pounds but the older 
> ones lose weight when they eat it.  One of my cats, Isadora lost most of her 
> fur (long hair) and had scabs and sores on her skin.  I began feeding 
> Kirkland about 3 months ago and the other day I realized that Isadora had no 
> more scabs and had grown back her fur.  The fat content did her a whole lot 
> of good. She looks like she has gained a pound or two and is much more 
> active. Mr. Buttons (Big Butt-tons) also gained weight on
> >  Kirkland.  I need to widen the doorway for him.
> I will probably have to keep buying the Kirkland and just work harder.
>
>
>
> Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty 
> neighbors too!
>
> >
> >
> >___
> >Felvtalk mailing list
> >Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> >http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> 
> Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!
>
> If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their 
> life.  Contact your local pound for information.
>
>
> If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and to 
> free up cage space.
>
> Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by 
> implementing the No Kill Equation: 
> http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/
>
>
> Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities: 
> http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/
>
> Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org
>
> More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/
>
> More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially 
> http://vimeo.com/48445902
>
>
>
>
> Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond: 
> http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.orghttp://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing 
> listFelvtalk@felineleukemia.orghttp://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up

Re: [Felvtalk] Ta ta for now

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

They're still selling the from-China chicken breast doggie treats that
killed/sickened lots of animals, only because the FDA can't figure out
what's wrong with them.

On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 1:32 PM, Natalie  wrote:

> Thanks, just spread the word on it, post on FB, etc. – I did.  It’s a
> shame that a company’s response would be “Buyer beware”….anything we buy
> for our pets should be safe without question! 
>
> My husband got a catnip/fabric toy, made in China at PetSmart…I was about
> to let the cats use it, when I decided out of curiosity to read the
> label..guess what?  It said that “if ingested, could cause death”!  Now, we
> have to read all small print on doggie treats, especially when made in
> China, and learned that American made treats had to be recalled because of
> salmonella!  I’ll be making my own doggie and cat treats (haha, in my spare
> time).
>
> Natalie
>
> ** **
>
> My new email address is:*atia@gmail.com*
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Bonnie Hogue
> *Sent:* Friday, October 12, 2012 4:39 PM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Ta ta for now
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks for sharing the great information.  Very helpful to me, as I seek
> to use the best products for my beloved furry friends.
>
> Sorry to see you check out – you have been very helpful, to me.
>
> Bonnie
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Felvtalk 
> [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org]
> *On Behalf Of *Natalie
> *Sent:* Friday, October 12, 2012 1:13 PM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* [Felvtalk] Ta ta for now
>
> ** **
>
> It seems that this topic still isn’t closed, is it?  There have been
> comments *after* the one you just responded to here.
>
> ** **
>
> I joined because a friend recommended this group, and it has been
> helpful.  I had 2 adult FeLV+ cats.  One of the cats died of CRF, and the
> other was adopted by a veterinarian and is still doing OK.  Those 2 cats
> lived with a large group of healthy cats for about 6 months, and I tested
> all starting with very young and older cats – not a single cat contracted
> the virus!  6 months should have been enough time to do so, shouldn’t it?*
> ***
>
> Since I don’t have any FeLV positive cats right now, I decided that I will
> get off this list – I learned things that I’d rather not have known, such
> as someone hunting small game, another person having cats declawed
> routinely, I guess because the vet offers such a great deal, etc. 
>
> But before I leave, I will post just one site about Clumping litter
> containing sodium bentonite.  Don’t forget, it doesn’t have to be listed in
> the ingredients!~  And as long as it states that it can be flushed down the
> toilet, is doesn’t contain SB, which would completely block the plumbing.*
> ***
>
> I’ve seen so many reviews, often poo-pooing the dangers, misstating that
> SB expands 5 times its weight (it’s capable of absorbing liquid and
> moisture 15 x its weight, and is- used in construction).  The best article
> was written in Tiger Tribe, a holistic cat magazine that is no longer
> published. When I heard that they were closing down operations, I bought
> all the back issues.
> http://www.thelighthouseonline.com/articles/clump.html - Clumping clay
> litters, a deadly convenience.
>
> This one is short and sweet.
> http://kapush.net/cat-litter/sodium-bentonite-cat-litter-dangers/ -
>
> Natalie
>
> *From:* Felvtalk 
> [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org]
> *On Behalf Of *cindy reasoner
> *Sent:* Friday, October 12, 2012 8:52 AM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Off topic: President
>
> ** **
>
> I disagree. Please can we just end all the political talk.
>
>  
>
> Cindy Reasoner
>
>  
>
> --- On *Wed, 10/10/12, GRAS * wrote:
>
>
> From: GRAS 
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Off topic: President
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Date: Wednesday, October 10, 2012, 2:10 PM
>
> *I must respectfully disagree, this wasn’t about bashing anyone– to state
> a platform on which a candidate is running is just that – no one was
> calling any candidate horrible names!*
>
>  
>
> ** **
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Re: [Felvtalk] Felvtalk Mailing list

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Islay, you can do that yourself.   Click on the second link below and it
will take you to the page where you can manage your subscription.


On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 11:53 AM, Islay Mulcahy wrote:

> Please remove my name and address from your mailing list.
>
> Thank you.
>
> --
> If what you seek, you find not within, you will not find it without.
> Blessed Be.
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] The Price of Cat Food

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Yes, searing the raw meat is a good way to get the smell factor up.   I had
one cat that took six months to get off kibble and onto raw.


On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 12:28 PM, Susan Hoffman wrote:

> I tried raw with my 15 year old calico a few years ago.  She wouldn't
> touch it, wanted me to fry it up in some butter first.
>
> --

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] The Price of Cat Food

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

They do eat by-products when they eat the whole prey, but they are getting
all the rest, too, which they don't get with just by-products (where the
good stuff has been taken out for human consumption).   By-products contain
much less nutrition and are often indigestible.  Note that cats also get
some minerals by eating the dirt that's on the animals.   Guess that's why
some feral feeders just put the food on the ground.  :-)

That has always surprised me when people report that their cat doesn't eat
the organs, as those (exept for feces-filled intestines) are the most
nutritious things in the prey's body, and also (I've read that) the big
cats eat the organs first and bury the rest of the body for the next day.


On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 12:22 PM,  wrote:

> While we are on the subject of raw diet, don't they eat some of those
> things when they catch a mouse, rabbit or squirrel or bird?  The only
> things my guys don't eat are the organs, especially intestines.  Other
> wise, they eat the whole thing.
>
>
> --

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] The Price of Cat Food

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Remember, rabbits don't produce Taurine the way cats don't, so if you feed
rabbits again, add Taurine.   Cats died in studies where they were only fed
rabbit.

I have forgotten to get meat out of the freezer, but put it in a plastic
bag and float it in cold water.   That defrosts it really quickly.   That's
a tip I got from Harmony Farms.


On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 12:09 PM,  wrote:

>
> i TRIED RABBIT FROM A NEIGHBOR WHO RAISES HIS ORGANIC FOR HIS OWN FOOD.
>  THEY LOOKED AT IT LIKE IT WAS ALIEN, WOULD NOT EVEN TOUCH IT.  I ONLY HAVE
> 7, BUT KEEPING ENOUGH MEAT FOR THEM WOULD BE A PROBLEM.  i HAVE A SIDE BY
> SIDE AND THE FREEZER IS NOT THAT LARGE.  AND GETTING IT OUT IN TIME TO THAW
> WOULD BE A PROBLEM WITH MY MEMORY.
>
>
>
-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] The Price of Cat Food

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

I'm not quite sure how you arrived at the $9/day, at least not based on
what I said.   It seems too low.

Yes, transition to raw is sometimes a slow one, at least for some cats.


On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 12:27 PM, Lee Evans  wrote:

> It would be nice if I could do that but I'm feeding around 35 cats right
> now.  Feeding raw would cost me around $9 a day with turns into around $250
> a month.  On top of which, I would be a little nervous to feed raw chicken
> to the cats.  Some of them probably wouldn't even understand what it was
> while others might throw it up at first.  Cooked chicken would add about 3
> hours work to my day.  My freezer would be full of frozen chicken, not
> defrosted in time for their dinner and I would go insane.
>
> The dry food costs me about $100 - $150 a month.  With the price of
> Kirkland going up it would cost me about equal to that because they eat
> less of the Kirkland due to fat content.  Seems to fill them up better.  I
> used to buy Friskies regular type, and Purina Cat Chow (no one wanted to
> eat that).  Then I bought HEB brand Hill Country Fair and all the cats
> began throwing up in unison.  Stopped buying that also.  They seem to be
> able to digest Paws and Claws, the Tractor Supply brand that cost $20 for
> 36 pounds but the older ones lose weight when they eat it.  One of my cats,
> Isadora lost most of her fur (long hair) and had scabs and sores on her
> skin.  I began feeding Kirkland about 3 months ago and the other day I
> realized that Isadora had no more scabs and had grown back her fur.  The
> fat content did her a whole lot of good. She looks like she has gained a
> pound or two and is much more active. Mr. Buttons (Big Butt-tons) also
> gained weight on Kirkland.  I need to widen the doorway for him.
> I will probably have to keep buying the Kirkland and just work harder.
>
>
> Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty
> neighbors too!
>
>
>   --
> *From:* Kathryn Hargreaves 
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 11, 2012 1:28 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] The Price of Cat Food
>
> I'm curious as to how much you are spending per day per cat feeding dry.
>  I am able to feed raw for 70 cents/day per cat.  If you didn't buy the
> chicken from Whole Foods, which charges about twice as much as do, say
> local ethnic butchers, then you could roll in for around half that.
>
> I've heard they have to eat more dry than raw, as it isn't as high-octane
> of food.   Also, cats don't drink enough water to compensate for dry food,
> grain/starch-free or not, and stand a very good chance of ending up with
> CRF.
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 10:06 AM, Lee Evans wrote:
>
> Oh, @#$%!!!.  The price of Kirkland Adult Maintenance cat food used to be
> $16.99.  Then it went up a year later to $17.59.  Well, I bought two 20 lb.
> bags a week and a half ago.  This Tuesday, I went back to Costco because my
> cats ate most of the Kirkland and the price had gone up to $18.99!!!  It
> went up $1.49 in about a week.  This is robbery.  I'm so depressed.  The
> crap I buy at the feed store doesn't have a high fat content and doesn't
> have actual chicken like Kirkland and is $20  for a 36 pound bag.  Well,
> kitties, you're going to be back on a diet of crap and corn meal unless
> Mommy can get another job online.  Sigh.
>
>
> Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty
> neighbors too!
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
>
>
> 
Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.
<http://www.laanimalservices.com/volunteer_fostercare.htm>

If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/<http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/>

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] The Price of Cat Food

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

I'm curious as to how much you are spending per day per cat feeding dry.  I
am able to feed raw for 70 cents/day per cat.  If you didn't buy the
chicken from Whole Foods, which charges about twice as much as do, say
local ethnic butchers, then you could roll in for around half that.

I've heard they have to eat more dry than raw, as it isn't as high-octane
of food.   Also, cats don't drink enough water to compensate for dry food,
grain/starch-free or not, and stand a very good chance of ending up with
CRF.


On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 10:06 AM, Lee Evans  wrote:

> Oh, @#$%!!!.  The price of Kirkland Adult Maintenance cat food used to be
> $16.99.  Then it went up a year later to $17.59.  Well, I bought two 20 lb.
> bags a week and a half ago.  This Tuesday, I went back to Costco because my
> cats ate most of the Kirkland and the price had gone up to $18.99!!!  It
> went up $1.49 in about a week.  This is robbery.  I'm so depressed.  The
> crap I buy at the feed store doesn't have a high fat content and doesn't
> have actual chicken like Kirkland and is $20  for a 36 pound bag.  Well,
> kitties, you're going to be back on a diet of crap and corn meal unless
> Mommy can get another job online.  Sigh.
>
>
> Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty
> neighbors too!
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] Hartz

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Too bad their FB page doesn't allow comments.

On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 5:11 AM, Marcia Baronda wrote:

> I know this sounds minor, but their cat litter ( I bought it in my small
> town because I'm 30 miles from a Walmart, and was in desperate need),
> anyway, their cat litter could cause emphysema in the cats that use it and
> the owners that scoop it! I was appalled and promptly sent them an email
> letting them know it. THEY SUCK!
>
> Sent from my iPad that my most awesome kids surprised me with, Christmas
> 2010.
>
> On Oct 7, 2012, at 6:54 AM, Lorrie  wrote:
>
> > On 10-05, Lee Evans wrote:
> >
> >>   PLEASE, whatever you do, don't buy Hartz products.  They are a company
> >>   that doesn't care if animals die from their terrible flea and tick
> >>   products or are paralyzed for life.
> >
> > Thanks for bringing this up, Lee. I learned the hard way and used
> > Hartz flea stuff for cats on one of my rescues, and he died in
> > days from liver failure.  I am appalled that this company is allowed
> > to sell their stuff.
> >
> > Lorrie
> >
> > ___
> > Felvtalk mailing list
> > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>



-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] Vaccinations

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

You can also just vax for Panleuk only.

On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 5:48 PM, Beth  wrote:

> Mine were not symptomatic at the time they got the FVRCP. They became
> symptomatic immediately afterward. If there is a huge risk of getting
> panleukopenis (sp?)  You might want to take the risk - if you rescue a lot
> from AC. Otherwise it is another thing for their immune system to deal
> with. I don't give any of my cats FVRCP vax anymore since I stopped
> fostering except fot the FeLVs.
>
> Sharyl  wrote:
>
> >Again it really depends on the kitten.  I've rescued 10 FeLV kittens.
> All had their rabies shot and initial series of FVRCP shots.  All were
> asymptomatic at the time.  None got sick from the vaccines.  I eventually
> lost all of them to FeLV.  They lived from 1 yr to 4 yrs.  It is a decision
> each individual has to make.  Mine got their rabies vax because it is
> required by law.  They got the FVRCP series of 2 shots because I did not
> want to risk them getting distemper.
> >
> >There is no one rule that applies to all cats except to love them and
> give them the best food and care you can.  It broke my heart to lose my
> FeLV babies but they brought me so much joy.  I only hope I was able to
> give them 1/2 of what they gave me.
> >
> >Hugs to yours
> >Sharyl
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Beth 
> >To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> >Sent: Sunday, October 7, 2012 8:44 AM
> >Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Vaccinations
> >
> >Don't. My one got sick immediately after an FvRCP annual vaccination
> >
> >Lorrie  wrote:
> >
> >>What are your opinions on vaccinating FelV positive kittens??
> >>They are 5 months old and should have their first vaccinations,
> >>but I've had immune compromised kittens die from them, so I worry.
> >>They do not go outside but are confined to three large rooms in
> >>my cat sanctuary.
> >>
> >>Lorrie
> >>
> >___
> >Felvtalk mailing list
> >Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> >http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>



-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] Vaccinations

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Yep.

On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 4:08 AM, Lorrie  wrote:

> I did not know the 1 year and 3 year rabies were the same. So the vet
> gives a new cat or kitten the first vaccination for rabies and then
> makes extra $$ by having you return for another vaccination in a year.
>
>
> On 10-06, Kathryn Hargreaves wrote:
>
> >Also, I'm sure you know that 1-year and 3-year rabies vax are the same
> >contents with different labels. Â  And that experiments have shown the
> >rabies vax lasts at least 7 years, if not for life.
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>



-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.
<http://www.laanimalservices.com/volunteer_fostercare.htm>

If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/<http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/>

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] Vaccinations

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Well, one reason is that a dead patient doesn't bring in money anymore.  :-)

You may want to look it up, but I've read that the number of polio cases
actually went up after they started vaxing for it.

Holisticat had some innovative ways to deal with mandatory rabies vaxes.
 You may want to Google their archives.


On Sat, Oct 6, 2012 at 11:37 PM, Lee Evans  wrote:

> Yes, I know that but the dim wits who make the Animal Control laws in
> Texas refuse to recognize it. A titer costs a whole lot of $$$ for that
> reason and I'm not sure the authorities would even recognize it as
> sufficient.  The vets make money on the vaccinations every year.  Why
> should they stop a good cash cow (or cat)?
>
>
>
> Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty
> neighbors too!
>
>
>   --
> *From:* Kathryn Hargreaves 
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 7, 2012 12:58 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Vaccinations
>
> Can you get a titer instead of vaxing for rabies each (three) year(s) or
> does your law not allow that?
>
> Also, I'm sure you know that 1-year and 3-year rabies vax are the same
> contents with different labels.   And that experiments have shown the
> rabies vax lasts at least 7 years, if not for life.
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 6, 2012 at 1:04 PM, Lee Evans  wrote:
>
> This is just an opinion stemming from a human experience with
> vaccinations.  I almost died from the whooping cough vaccination when I was
> 9 years old.  Again, when the Salk vaccine came out, my father, a physician
> gave me the anti-polio vaccination.  Now, I do approve of polio
> vaccinations since it's such a dread disease and the vaccination did almost
> completely wipe it out in the USA. However, the vaccine contained an error
> and some of the virus was not killed. I got a mild case of polio and have
> had some minor nerve damage on my right side ever since.  It doesn't
> improve with age, either.  So I do NOT vaccinate my cats.  Not with FeLv or
> FIV or anything but rabies (it's the law).  I do have to vaccinate with the
> FVRCP vaccine when I know that one of my rescues will be going for adoption
> though.  But I never vaccinate for leukemia.  If you have kittens who need
> the FVRCP for adoption, then you do it.  But if you are keeping them, I
> would advise not to do it.  And try not to get them vaccinated at the time
> that you are getting the spay/neuter operation for a cat or dog.  No
> medical doctor ever gives a human patient a vaccination before surgery.
> It's terribly dangerous and I really resent vets who do that to people's
> pets.  However, sometimes you need to get the rabies shot at the time of
> s/n surgery because you are using a low cost clinic and you have a feral
> cat who can't be trapped twice. So you have to do both at the same time.
> But ferals who are outside don't really need any other vaccination once
> they are neutered/spayed.I also really resent the new FIV vaccination that
> turns negative cats positive on tests and jeopardizes their lives should
> they get lost and then tested by the person who finds them.
>
>
> Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty
> neighbors too!
>
>
>   --
>
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.
<http://www.laanimalservices.com/volunteer_fostercare.htm>

If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/<http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/>

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] Fw: Flea Products

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Just note that with cats, who lack the liver enzyme to process toxins the
way humans and doggies can, the toxic buildup is over time.

On Sat, Oct 6, 2012 at 5:23 PM, Sharyl  wrote:

> I've been using Revolution on my 13 house rescues for a yr now with no
> problems.  Age ranges from kittens to 19 yr old.  I like that there is a
> size for under 5 lbs for my kittens.   It really depends on the cat.
> Sharyl
>
>   * *
> *=*
>

-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] Vaccinations

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Can you get a titer instead of vaxing for rabies each (three) year(s) or
does your law not allow that?

Also, I'm sure you know that 1-year and 3-year rabies vax are the same
contents with different labels.   And that experiments have shown the
rabies vax lasts at least 7 years, if not for life.


On Sat, Oct 6, 2012 at 1:04 PM, Lee Evans  wrote:

> This is just an opinion stemming from a human experience with
> vaccinations.  I almost died from the whooping cough vaccination when I was
> 9 years old.  Again, when the Salk vaccine came out, my father, a physician
> gave me the anti-polio vaccination.  Now, I do approve of polio
> vaccinations since it's such a dread disease and the vaccination did almost
> completely wipe it out in the USA. However, the vaccine contained an error
> and some of the virus was not killed. I got a mild case of polio and have
> had some minor nerve damage on my right side ever since.  It doesn't
> improve with age, either.  So I do NOT vaccinate my cats.  Not with FeLv or
> FIV or anything but rabies (it's the law).  I do have to vaccinate with the
> FVRCP vaccine when I know that one of my rescues will be going for adoption
> though.  But I never vaccinate for leukemia.  If you have kittens who need
> the FVRCP for adoption, then you do it.  But if you are keeping them, I
> would advise not to do it.  And try not to get them vaccinated at the time
> that you are getting the spay/neuter operation for a cat or dog.  No
> medical doctor ever gives a human patient a vaccination before surgery.
> It's terribly dangerous and I really resent vets who do that to people's
> pets.  However, sometimes you need to get the rabies shot at the time of
> s/n surgery because you are using a low cost clinic and you have a feral
> cat who can't be trapped twice. So you have to do both at the same time.
> But ferals who are outside don't really need any other vaccination once
> they are neutered/spayed.I also really resent the new FIV vaccination that
> turns negative cats positive on tests and jeopardizes their lives should
> they get lost and then tested by the person who finds them.
>
>
> Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty
> neighbors too!
>
>
>   --
>
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] Vaccinations

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

I wonder if you should try to get a tubal ligation instead, as a recent
study indicates that longevity is tied to keeping the ovaries:
http://www.gpmcf.org/respectovaries.html

I'd avoid the vaxes, as the immune system is already wonked.


On Sat, Oct 6, 2012 at 5:40 AM, Maryam Ulomi  wrote:

> Thank for this advice. Kitty, the little feral, I rescued us living in her
> bedroom with all her toys and things. She is due for her vaccinations and
> very soon to be spayed. I'm holding off on the vaccinations but she will
> get spayed soon. Keeping fingers crossed that when I retest her she is
> negative so she can play with my other two cats.
>
> Maryam
>
> Sent from my iPhone.
>
> On Oct 6, 2012, at 9:12, MaiMaiPG  wrote:
>
> > I might give them rabies simply because of law enforcement issues but
> you should be able to get a waiver for that.  I don't vaccinate sick/immune
> compromised animals.
> > On Oct 6, 2012, at 5:52 AM, Lorrie wrote:
> >
> >> What are your opinions on vaccinating FelV positive kittens??
> >> They are 5 months old and should have their first vaccinations,
> >> but I've had immune compromised kittens die from them, so I worry.
> >> They do not go outside but are confined to three large rooms in
> >> my cat sanctuary.
> >>
> >> Lorrie
> >>
> >> On 10-05, dlg...@windstream.net wrote:
> >>>
> >>> There seem to be a lot of questions about the flea meds.  I am having
> >>> enough problems in deciding to vaccinate or not.  I have a couple who
> >>> never go outside so are not exposed to critters that might infect them
> and
> >>> 1 is 14 years old.  I am afraid that vaccinating her at that age might
> do
> >>> more harm than good.  The others only go out for an hour or 2 and most
> of
> >>> the time they are on the deck laying in the sun.  Rabies is required
> here,
> >>> but not the others.  I do give the negative cats the FELV vaccine
> since I
> >>> have 2 positives.
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Felvtalk mailing list
> >> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> >> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Felvtalk mailing list
> > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>



-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] SuzieQ (was President)

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Either try a serum from Dr. Chachoua or give pain meds, if they would help.
 Is it in her lungs?   If fluid is building up around them from the cancer,
then have them tapped often enough so she is not in respiratory distress.
Cats really do not handle that well.

On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 9:14 AM, Edna Taylor  wrote:

>  All very valid points.  Maybe I am one of those weird folks who
> just doesn't get angry or upset if someone votes a different way.  I guess
> that is why I always thought it was odd that people get so mad about
> politics or religion, cause I just don't care one way or the other ;)
>
> *Also, any suggestions on making SuzieQ's last days comfortable (I posted
> about her yesterday, 2-3 year old, cancer, no cure, caused from exposure
> to FeLuk even though she was able to shed the virus, etc.)*
>
> --
> Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 09:16:13 -0700
> From: moonsiste...@yahoo.com
>
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President
>
> I've never been a list moderator or been a position to direct anything
> except to try to direct a bunch of cats to use the litter boxes.  However,
> let me just add a bit of wisdom or non-wisdom, however you want to view
> it.  Discussing politics and religion usually causes minor skirmishes and
> major wars on any list or even in a group around the dinner table.  We all
> have opinions.  If the opinions are about food, clothing, the color of the
> freshly painted house down the street, why the neighbor would ever buy a
> Chihuahua/Great Dane mix dog or anything but religion and politics, we
> state our opinion, have a chuckle sometimes, compliment each other for
> being able to put a few words together in a sentence and go on with the
> day.  But just start a thread in a group about politics in an election year
> and all h*** breaks loose.  Even if half the list is in agreement that one
> or another candidate is a total screw-up, the other half of the list goes
> bananas and defends their total screw-up to the last flaming word.
> Unfortunately this is because most people don't use logic and research to
> pick a candidate.  So what you get is pure emotion. Other people know deep
> inside that they are supporting someone who isn't exactly wonderful but
> they are not going to vote for that OTHER PARTY because mom, dad, grandma,
> granddad never voted for that PARTY. It is my opinion that most elections
> are based on who can sell the product better and the prejudice of the
> voters for or against the actual person.  I don't mean color or ethnic
> group although that also comes into the mix.  What I mean is that no one
> even goes to check out the facts.  Like we are now having a problem with
> whether Romney strapped his dog carrier to the top of his car.  Or in the
> past, whether Mr. Obama was a citizen of the United States, or whether he
> was a secret Muslim. These are all smoke screens to keep people from
> thinking about real issues, like the price of food constantly going up, how
> much money  the oil companies are actually making when they raise the price
> of gas every time someone mentions Iran or Iraq or any other issue
> important to our daily lives.  If I spend an hour doing a search on how
> many bills were passed by the candidates that benefited me or took away
> something for me, I would do much better as an informed voter than if I
> spent my time reading about Romney's dog or Obama's birth certificate.
> This, I think, is why we get angry with someone who has an opinion that
> does not match ours.  We are not really solidly informed before we take the
> opinion in the first place.  Like standing on the edge of a cliff, afraid
> that someone will push us off and lying to ourselves that if we scream loud
> and long enough, we won't lose our balance.  Maybe we should just stick to
> cats and trade information on how to make their lives better and longer.
>
>
> Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty
> neighbors too!
>
>
>   --
> *From:* Terri Brown 
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Sent:* Friday, October 5, 2012 7:22 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] President
>
>  This is why I don't think we should be discussing this on this list.
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Lorrie 
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Sent:* Friday, October 05, 2012 6:59 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] President
>
> It is true.
>
> On 10-04, Terri Brown wrote:
> >I don't know where you heard that Lorrie, but it's not true.
> >
> >Terri
> >
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
>
> ___ Felvtalk 

Re: [Felvtalk] Fw: Flea Products

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Advantage is safer than is Revolution for cats, or so my then-vet said.

On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 7:51 PM,  wrote:

> I GOT rEVOLUTION ONCE AND IT CAUSED THEM TO LOOSE THEIR HAIR AT THE
> APPLICATION POINT.  THEN THE HAIR CAME BACK IN SNOW WHITE.  NOT TOO FOUND
> OF THAT.  VET AGREED AND WE STOPPED IT.
>
>  Lee Evans  wrote:
> > I'm not sure that fleas can become immune to meds.  The ones who are on
> the cat die.  The ones who hatch from the floor jump on the cat, die.  The
> ones who lay eggs are apparently still alive so how can they become immune
> to a product?  Unless Super Flea survives the treatment and goes on to
> reproduce.  But it's probably a good idea to switch products any way.  Some
> are good for treating heavy flea infestations (Frontline Plus) and some
> have mange, worm prevention also, Revolution.  I have not had good results
> with Revolution on fleas although it's great for preventing mange and
> sometimes reducing infestation of earmites.  I find that Advantage is also
> good for heavy flea infestation but I haven't tried it yet.  I have
> Frontline Plus right now and am on my way to treat the little lions, tigers
> and panthers.
>
>
>
> Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty
> neighbors too!
>
>
>
>
> 
>  From: Beth 
> To: FeLV Talk 
> Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 4:06 PM
> Subject: [Felvtalk] Fw:  Flea Products
>
>
>
>
>
> Well I Googled before & did again. The only thing I can find is that some
> cats are more prone to Moxidectin toxicity, which is why you have to be so
> careful about dosages.
> The Multi formula has meds for fleas - Imidacloprid & heartworm larvae -
> Moxidectin
>
> Either way the dog Multi has bit had much effect on my cats this year.
> I've heard some people say you should switch products periodically to keep
> the fleas from becoming immune to the
>  meds.
>
> Beth
>
>
>
> Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org
>
>
>
> 
>  From: Maureen Olvey 
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 4:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Flea Products
>
>
>
> It's been a while since I read that about the dog Multi, however I doubt
> they've changed ingredients.  I can't remember what ingredient it is in the
> dog multi that's bad for cats.  I found the info online though so I know
> it's out there.  Maybe what I read was wrong though.  Find out what
> ingredient is bad and ask your vet if he knows the dog multi has that
> ingredient in there and tell him someone told you it was bad for cats.  I'd
> go back and look it up if I had time but I've got to get back to work cause
> the CPAs will be here Monday to audit the books for my company.
>
> “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are
> profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon
> unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me
> sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark
> Twain
>
>
>
> 
>  Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 12:56:46 -0700
> From: create_me_...@yahoo.com
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Flea Products
>
>
> Oh great!. My vet said the Multi was OK.But it still isn't working
>
>
>
> Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org
>
>
>
> 
>  From: Maureen Olvey 
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 3:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Flea Products
>
>
>
> Also - don't get Advantage Multi for Dogs and break it down for cats.
> Regular Advantage for dogs is okay to break down for cats but don't use the
> "Multi."  Some extra ingredient in there is bad news for cats.  Obviously
> the cat "Multi" is okay.
>
> “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are
> profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon
> unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me
> sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark
> Twain
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>



-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equatio

Re: [Felvtalk] Flea Products

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

I'm not a big fan of spot-on flea meds, either, as it only makes scientific
sense that some will survive and be resistant to the poison (as with
bacteria and abx).

I've only had to use them (Advantage, which my vet said is the safest for
cats, but your mileage may vary) once when we had a flea infestation that
was spreading a red blood cell parasite and taking down the one who
originally had it.   When I had some pound kitties come in with fleas, I
only had to give them one Capstar (works for one day and kills only adult
fleas).

In both instances, I also cleaned up the floor--which harbors 90% of the
fleas (in egg/larvae form)--with a solution of food-grade (note NOT pool
grade) diatomaceous earth, water, and non-toxic soap.   I have concrete
floors, so I just painted this on.   (When I use DE dry, it messes up my
sinuses and causes headaches, and isn't that good for kitty lungs, either.)
  I have not had a problem for 2--3 years now.   If you have carpets, I've
read that vacuuming every day (and disposing of the bag or emptying the
canister) will also get most of the eggs.   You can also sprinkle DE or
salt onto the carpet, brush it in, and leave for a day before vacuuming.


On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 4:22 PM, Joslin Potter  wrote:

> Honestly, I found that a good old fashion bath with dawn dish soap
> and flea comb has been our best defense this year. ( along with a few house
> bombs) It sucks having to give everyone a bath but i like it more then
> putting greasy drops on my pets.
>
>*From:* Cindy McHugh 
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Sent:* Friday, October 5, 2012 7:55 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Flea Products
>
>I bought Frontline for my foster cats last summer and it was
> completely ineffective. The next time I was at my vet’s office, I mentioned
> it (because that’s where I bought it). The vet on duty (not my regular)
> said she had recently heard many similar complaints and surmised that fleas
> in our area were building an immunity to it.
>
>  I switched to Advantage and it’s worked well. However, since then, I
> found a source for a generic equivalent and I’ve been using it for about a
> year now with no complaints. It’s $10 (free shipping) for 18 treatments for
> small cats or 9 treatments for larger cats. If anyone is interested, the
> company is http://www.fleakiller.co/
>
>  I have no personal interest in this company or site. I’m just a very
> satisfied customer.
>
>  Cindy
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

The Jains eat only things that fall from the plants, so the plants don't
get killed.  After I read this, I quit eating root veggies.   On the other
hand, they do not believe in keeping pets, much along the lines of PeTA,
except they don't kill them.

Have you seen this book?   It may be a key to helping transition more
people away from eating meat:
http://www.amazon.com/All-American-Vegan-Veganism-Rest/dp/0979074339/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1349362032&sr=8-1&keywords=american+vegan


On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 6:36 AM, Natalie  wrote:

> Tell me about being treated as a terrorist!  It has become much better
> now, as far as the general population goes, however, AETA, that’s another
> wonderful thing…. (Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act of 2006, passed by only
> six members, under GWB, and the only one who voted against it was
> Kucinich!) – which can make any of us terrorists because of its broad range.
> 
>
> I agree…two cat helper who work here have become vegetarian, and one is
> well on the way to being vegan. It was by example, and discussion.
>
> However, whenever the debate on hunting comes up, and I have many, I am
> immediately accused of eating meat and that it’s not any different than
> venison..when they find out that I do not eat any meat, they start accusing
> me of killing vegetables, that if that’s how I feel about killing, I
> shouldn’t kill them either.  It’s just a distraction, of course.
>
> I am also asked what I eat, and believe me, we use a lot of beans of every
> kind, we don’t suffer from boredom nor do we give up on delicious food  -
> yes, I cook a lot, and I love making up new dishes.  I even started making
> my own soy milk, which is easy and better without all the additives of
> store-bought.
>
> *From:* Felvtalk 
> [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org]
> *On Behalf Of *Lee Evans
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 04, 2012 9:54 AM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting
>
> ** **
>
> When I first joined the animal welfare movement, I was and still am an
> animal rights activist, vegan by ethics and choice.  I was treated by some
> as if I were a terrorist, barely tolerated by them, feared by others,
> ignored by still others.  Finally, one of the fearful people asked me what
> vegetarians eat.  I ask back what did she think they ate and she said,
> "Cabbage, carrots, lettuce, you know, vegetables."  I told her that she had
> probably mistaken us for rabbits.  Then I explained the bean protocol, the
> tofu and soy protocol to her.  She wrinkled her nose and said that this
> can't be healthy.  I wrinkled my nose right back at her and said that
> eating a dead animal isn't healthy either.  Some years later, I met her
> again.  She asked after my cats, found that I had as many as I originally
> had, then asked me if I were still a vegan.  I told her I was and she said
> the she wasn't yet a vegan but she was a vegetarian because of all the
> horrid things she had heard about how meat was raised and processed.  I
> think that if you are polite and courteous and patient with people and your
> belief is rational, logical and legitimate, you can eventually educate most
> people to see your way of thinking as acceptable and even worth trying
> especially if that belief gets enough press coverage and publicity.
>
> ** **
>
>  
>
> *Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty
> neighbors too!*
>
> ** **
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] FW: FW: Bow hunting

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Natalie,

The pounds/shelters have a higher profile than do rescuers.  If they
sincerely implement the No Kill Equation, they can save over 90% of their
intake, including those animals brought in or dumped by the minority of the
public that is irresponsible.  Until they do so, however, they are not a
resource for rescuers, but rather yet another burden on them (as they rely
too heavily on rescuers to bail the animals, rather than marketing them
themselves).

There are still small wild cats in Africa.  I wonder how often they go into
heat.

On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 5:14 AM, Natalie  wrote:

> *Yes, it would make sense – if cats had not been domesticated so long
> ago, they would still be part of the natural ecosystem, be considered
> wildlife and probably still reproduce only once, instead of numerous times
> throughout the year, as they do now.  It does happen to most wildlife, but
> obviously very differently, depending on the species.  *
>
> *It’s too bad that this doesn’t apply to domesticated animals anymore.  I
> doubt that companion animals will ever become extinct.  My hope would be
> that every time someone wanted a cat or a dog, they would have to be on a
> waiting list – what’s happening right now, is obscene – the number of
> healthy, beautiful animals that are killed routinely in shelters and pounds
> is unbearable.  I started the cat rescue 20 years ago, and I don’t think
> much has changed, other than other small groups in the area doing the same
> thing.  People are still not spaying/neutering, still abandoning their
> pets, and many are still total jerks!  Those of us who do rescue, are
> paying emotional, physically, and financially for others’ irresponsible
> behavior, because we care.*
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Felvtalk 
> [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org]
> *On Behalf Of *Kathryn Hargreaves
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 03, 2012 3:32 AM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting
>
> ** **
>
> Does this happen with all species?
>
> ** **
>
> I think the best thing to do is leave animals alone, too, but when feral
> cats bother people to the point where they are going to kill them, it's
> probably better to try to get numbers down.   I prefer the methods some
> used with wolves, doing tubal ligations/vasectomies instead of messing with
> their hormones by taking out the sex organs.  That said, we're real good at
> exterminating species, so I hope that doesn't happen with companion animals.
> 
>
> ** **
>
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 9:09 PM, GRAS  wrote:
>
> *It’s really interesting because when, and that’s rarely, that they reach
> a biological carrying capacity (or in a severe winter and no food), sperm
> counts go down and females, in real dire situations, will actually absorb
> their fetuses.  Also, people mistake deer as starving in the winter because
> they may seem thin, ribs showing, it’s only that thyroxin (a calcium-rich
> hormone) regulates their metabolisms in cold weather….even iof a lot of
> food were available, they might not be able to absorb all the nutrition.**
> ***
>
> *The best thing is to leave them alone – thousands of years, and they
> have been able to regulate themselves until commercial hunting almost wiped
> them out at the end of the last century, and states had to start managing
> them to bring back the herds – then they found out what a big business it
> can be (hunting licenses, P-R Act, etc)- now they manage for MSY.*
>
> *From:* Felvtalk 
> [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org]
> *On Behalf Of *Kathryn Hargreaves
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 02, 2012 10:12 PM
>
>
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting
>
> Yes, I've heard from wildlife experts that the population of all species
> will level off at the carrying capacity (food, shelter) of the habitat,
> despite predation (of any sort).   This is why if you want to reduce a
> species' population, you have to sterilize and return, so the sterilized
> ones take up some of that capacity.
>
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Natalie  wrote:
>
> *No, they wouldn’t reproduce the same way, that’s the whole point!
> According to research on reproduction, hunted herds twin only 14%, while
> hunted herds twin or even triple at 38%.  It’s just nature’s way!  In fact,
> predators are better hunters because they go for the sick and old animals,
> while hunters avoid them, thereby actually degrading the gene pool –
> healthier animals are not the result of hunting – that’s done at deer farms
> by mating the best with the best specimen, producing fantastic trophy
> animals.*
>
> *No, I do not eat any meat.*
>
> ___

Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Also: http://www.*pawproject*.*org*/ 
 Technically, it's like getting your fingers cut off at the first knuckle,
except that all that cats have for fingers are their claws.  So it's really
like having all your entire fingers (and thumbs) cut off, so you can't pick
up anything anymore---and also (even if you only declaw the front) all of
your toes, so you can't walk without pain (including back pain).

Watch this:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NQOzwj41Pc


On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 3:45 AM, Lorrie  wrote:

> You declawed your cat?  I will send you some information about
> this.  It is NOT a good thing to do.
>
> People don't realize what's involved when a cat is declawed. They
> think it's just a "manicure", but it's actually amputation of the
> digit of each toe along with the nail.  It's a very serious and
> excruciatingly painful surgery to inflict on cats and kittens. It
> is in fact ten different amputations!
>
> Because some veterinarians advocate it, to make extra $$$, people
> believe that there are no risks involved and think it's merely a
> "simple procedure".  It is NOT.
>
> Veterinarians who perform this surgery do not tell people that this
> surgery can cause all or a combination of all the following
> Personality changes, such as withdrawal, unpredictability & biting
> (they now feel helpless, as biting is their only means of defense).
> The most common problem with declawed cats is urinating and
> defecating outside of the litter box.  The reason is that it is
> extremely painful to step on litter after the surgery, and in many
> cases a cat will never use it's box again.
>
> Walk into any shelter and you'll see many declawed cats there who
> have been given up, due to one or more of the above reasons.
>
> Here's a perfect example:  We know of a couple who, when expecting a
> baby, had their two adult cats declawed; what they got instead, was
> far more dangerous to a baby than scratching - unpredictable and
> serious biting! They had no choice but to have their cats of 6
> years killed because no one in their right mind would adopt them.
>
> Cats need claws for many reasons During play her claws snag
> flying toys out of the air and hold them in place. A cat uses claws
> to scratch an itch, manipulate catnip mice, grip a narrow catwalk,
> hoist her body up to a high-up perch.  Most important of all, claws
> are lifesavers, enabling a cat to climb to safety or thwart an
> attacker if she should get outside by accident.
>
> All this and much more is lost when a cat is declawed.
>
> Unlike routine recoveries, including recovery from neutering
> surgeries, which are fairly peaceful, declawing surgery results in
> excruciating pain.  Cats huddle in the corner of the recovery cage,
> immobilized in a state of helplessness, overwhelmed with pain.
> Declawing is a major operation. The "patient" is first put under
> general anesthesia, as the pain would be torturous without it. A
> tourniquet is placed around the first paw to be declawed. The
> veterinarian then performs a series of ten amputations. Each
> amputation removes the claw and the bone into which it is firmly
> rooted. The supporting tendons and ligaments for each claw are
> severed. The surrounding soft tissue and flesh is cut off, and a
> veterinary technician bandages up kitty's paws to soak up the blood.
> Kitty is now declawed. The retractable claws that she would have used
> throughout her life for scratching, playing, walking, and self
> defense lie in a heap on the table, waiting to get thrown out
> with the trash.
>
> Declawing Sites
>
> www. stopdeclaw.com a powerful anti-declaw site.
>
> www.declawing.com -- veterinarian Christianne Schelling describes
> declawing in plain English.
>
> www.de-clawing.com
>
> www.declaw.com
>
> www.catscratching.com
>
> Declawing has been banned in over 20 other countries. I think the
> only reason it's still done here is vets make a lot of money from it,
> plus people are uninformed about how cruel and painful it is.
>
>
> On 10-03, Joslin Potter wrote:
> >You make a good point Natialie, When we took Zoey in to be fixed and
> >declawed we didn't realize that in a few months when he was dx with
> >FeLV that we would be seeing them a lot more often then planned, I
> also
> >recommened them to everyone and sometimes get discounts for refering
> >friends.
>
>
>
> ___
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> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>



-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start savi

Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Does this happen with all species?

I think the best thing to do is leave animals alone, too, but when feral
cats bother people to the point where they are going to kill them, it's
probably better to try to get numbers down.   I prefer the methods some
used with wolves, doing tubal ligations/vasectomies instead of messing with
their hormones by taking out the sex organs.  That said, we're real good at
exterminating species, so I hope that doesn't happen with companion animals.


On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 9:09 PM, GRAS  wrote:

> *It’s really interesting because when, and that’s rarely, that they reach
> a biological carrying capacity (or in a severe winter and no food), sperm
> counts go down and females, in real dire situations, will actually absorb
> their fetuses.  Also, people mistake deer as starving in the winter because
> they may seem thin, ribs showing, it’s only that thyroxin (a calcium-rich
> hormone) regulates their metabolisms in cold weather….even iof a lot of
> food were available, they might not be able to absorb all the nutrition.*
>
> *The best thing is to leave them alone – thousands of years, and they
> have been able to regulate themselves until commercial hunting almost wiped
> them out at the end of the last century, and states had to start managing
> them to bring back the herds – then they found out what a big business it
> can be (hunting licenses, P-R Act, etc)- now they manage for MSY.*
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Felvtalk 
> [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org]
> *On Behalf Of *Kathryn Hargreaves
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 02, 2012 10:12 PM
>
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting
>
> ** **
>
> Yes, I've heard from wildlife experts that the population of all species
> will level off at the carrying capacity (food, shelter) of the habitat,
> despite predation (of any sort).   This is why if you want to reduce a
> species' population, you have to sterilize and return, so the sterilized
> ones take up some of that capacity.
>
> ** **
>
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Natalie  wrote:
>
> *No, they wouldn’t reproduce the same way, that’s the whole point!
> According to research on reproduction, hunted herds twin only 14%, while
> hunted herds twin or even triple at 38%.  It’s just nature’s way!  In fact,
> predators are better hunters because they go for the sick and old animals,
> while hunters avoid them, thereby actually degrading the gene pool –
> healthier animals are not the result of hunting – that’s done at deer farms
> by mating the best with the best specimen, producing fantastic trophy
> animals.*
>
> *No, I do not eat any meat.*
>
> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Joslin Potter
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 02, 2012 2:44 PM
>
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting
>
> I agree with you, but what would happen if we didn't have a hunting
> season, do you think they would not still reproduce like they do now? To
> each their own, again, I'm just thankful for the life of a deer, and the
> people who do purchase linceses as this money is put back into the wild
> life. The funding from licenses and tags is used to insure a healthy
> population of wildlife in the states, including the DNR to enforce the
> rules... I take it you don't eat meat Natalie?
>
> *It may provide your family with meat, BUT, technically, hunting doesn’t
> really lower deer populations except in the immediate aftermath of a cull.
> Next year, there will be the same number of deer, if not more, because
> hunting encourages and spurs reproduction through compensatory rebound and
> because states manage deer for MSY (maximum sustained yield).  I’m sure
> that you will notice that the population doesn’t really go down in the long
> run.  I have made it my business to learn as much as I can about deer
> biology/reproduction.  Natalie*
>
> *From:* Felvtalk 
> [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org]
> *On Behalf Of *Joslin Potter
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 02, 2012 9:48 AM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting
>
> I'm thankful for deer season, it provides my family with meat, as well as
> keeping population under control. -Joslin
>
>
>
> 
>
> ** **
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter an

Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Yes, I've heard from wildlife experts that the population of all species
will level off at the carrying capacity (food, shelter) of the habitat,
despite predation (of any sort).   This is why if you want to reduce a
species' population, you have to sterilize and return, so the sterilized
ones take up some of that capacity.


On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Natalie  wrote:

> *No, they wouldn’t reproduce the same way, that’s the whole point!
> According to research on reproduction, hunted herds twin only 14%, while
> hunted herds twin or even triple at 38%.  It’s just nature’s way!  In fact,
> predators are better hunters because they go for the sick and old animals,
> while hunters avoid them, thereby actually degrading the gene pool –
> healthier animals are not the result of hunting – that’s done at deer farms
> by mating the best with the best specimen, producing fantastic trophy
> animals.*
>
> *No, I do not eat any meat.*
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Joslin Potter
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 02, 2012 2:44 PM
>
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting
>
> ** **
>
> I agree with you, but what would happen if we didn't have a hunting
> season, do you think they would not still reproduce like they do now? To
> each their own, again, I'm just thankful for the life of a deer, and the
> people who do purchase linceses as this money is put back into the wild
> life. The funding from licenses and tags is used to insure a healthy
> population of wildlife in the states, including the DNR to enforce the
> rules... I take it you don't eat meat Natalie?
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Natalie 
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 2, 2012 11:52 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting
>
>
>
> 
>
> *It may provide your family with meat, BUT, technically, hunting doesn’t
> really lower deer populations except in the immediate aftermath of a cull.
> Next year, there will be the same number of deer, if not more, because
> hunting encourages and spurs reproduction through compensatory rebound and
> because states manage deer for MSY (maximum sustained yield).  I’m sure
> that you will notice that the population doesn’t really go down in the long
> run.  I have made it my business to learn as much as I can about deer
> biology/reproduction.  Natalie*
>
> * *
>
> *From:* Felvtalk 
> [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org]
> *On Behalf Of *Joslin Potter
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 02, 2012 9:48 AM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting
>
>  
>
> I'm thankful for deer season, it provides my family with meat, as well as
> keeping population under control. -Joslin
>
>  
>
> *From:* Natalie 
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 2, 2012 9:16 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting
>
>
> I monitor all the hunting accidents, it happens a lot, but unfortunately,
> innocent bystanders get hurt or killed, too - not to mention all the
> domestic animals, even farm animals.
> An Indiana hunter was killed on a youth day hunt, and two men with a 10-yr
> old kid with them, blamed it on him.  Turned out, it wasn't.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of
> Lorrie
> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 7:01 AM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting
>
> I hate bow hunting or any hunting whatsoever. I'd really love to see a
> hunter with a bow stuck in him, and I'm quite delighted when I hear that a
> hunter has shot his hunting buddy by mistake.
>
>
> Lorrie
>
> On 10-01, dlg...@windstream.net wrote: Bow hunting has started in my area
> > and I keep my cats close to home.  Only Harley goes down the road, so
> > HE stays inside.  I keep hearing "they are only animals" as the excuse.
> > Well, since we are suspossed to be descended from monkeys, we are
> > animals so why can't I shoot them.  They are only animals arn't they?
> >
>
> ___
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> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
> 
>
> ___
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> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your 

Re: [Felvtalk] Science Diet

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Purportedly egg yolk lethicin dissolves hairballs, but I've not tried it.

On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 1:40 AM,  wrote:

> My guys are not too crazy about Royal Canindry or canned SD.  They do like
> Royal Cannin "Extreme Hairball" dry.  I don't feed it as food, but as a
> treat.  It seems to help Casey who has long, fine hair and is always
> getting hairballs.
>
>  pandie...@aol.com wrote:
> > i guess then royal canin's uninary dry S/O is awful as well
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Susan Hoffman 
> > To: felvtalk 
> > Sent: Fri, Aug 31, 2012 2:35 pm
> > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Science Diet
> >
> >
> >
> > If you read the labels, so much of the high priced dry is really crap
> food loaded with corn and byproducts.  It's appalling what is out there on
> pet store shelves.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Lorrie 
> > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> > Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 1:59 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Science Diet
> >
> >
> > On 08-31, Marcia wrote:
> > >I think what really bothers me about Science Diet is that it is a
> low
> > >quality food sold for a very high price AND the general public
> doesn't
> > >know any of this!!
> >
> > Science Diet is really crappy food, and it's wrong of vets to push
> > it. Not many people read labels or understand what low quality food
> > it is, and they buy it because their vets sell it.  I'm sure vets get
> > a kick back from the company.
> >
> > Lorrie
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Felvtalk mailing list
> > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > elvtalk mailing list
> > elvt...@felineleukemia.org
> > ttp://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
> >
>
>
> ___
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> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>



-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902
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Re: [Felvtalk] FELV+, Struvite Crystals, and Nutrition

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Of what did the big kitty die?   I've heard of cats living beyond 30 years,
and often wonder if we fed them correctly that they wouldn't routinely live
to at least somewhere between 20 and 30 years.   Some people think cats
just have weak kidneys, but if they did, their species wouldn't have lasted
very long, IMHO.

Note that for females at least, ovary retention may very well play a big
part.   Look up the Center for Exceptional Longevity Studies, Gerald P.
Murphy Cancer Foundation and David Waters' work in ovary retention.   Then
good luck finding a vet that will do tubal ligations.Vets are simply
not taught how to do so, even though it's almost easier than a neuter.
 Two sutures on each tube (not the uterine horn), and cut.


On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 10:23 AM,  wrote:

> Wow! I'm really surprised. I've had all my healthy cats on SD since they
> were kittens. One in particular loved it so much, he would inhale it. We
> had him on W/D. He was a big cat, a domestic orange & white kitty - he was
> almost 4 ft long from the tip of his paw to the end on his tail (not
> stretched, just when he laid down). He weighed 30 lbs, and lived to be 15
> 1/2 yrs. My 15 year old dachshund has been on SD since 8 weeks old. She is
> still very active & plays with my cat Kirby every chance she gets. I guess
> some do better on it more than others. I did try to switch her food to
> Nutro when she was about 5. She got sick every night. When I put her back
> on SD, she was fine. Just thought I would share my experience.
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Natalie 
> Sender: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
> Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 14:08:30
> To: 
> Reply-to: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FELV+, Struvite Crystals, and Nutrition
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
> ___
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> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>



-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902
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Re: [Felvtalk] FELV+, Struvite Crystals, and Nutrition

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Nutro is pretty awful stuff, too.   The best canned food out there is
Merrick Before Grain, and even that has carageenan in it.  You may also
have to add some pumpkin/veggies (5%).   It's unknown if it's balanced in
terms of Phos:Ca, as the company isn't very forthcoming.


On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 12:57 PM,  wrote:

> Yes, I neglected to mention that it was a very gradule transition so I was
> perplexed that she got sick every night.
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -Original Message-
> From: GRAS 
> Sender: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
> Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 15:04:04
> To: 
> Reply-to: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FELV+, Struvite Crystals, and Nutrition
>
> When switching foods, it is very important to do it correctly.  When cats
> have been used to one food, and when suddenly exposed to a new food, their
> enzymes are not used to it, often causing diarrhea and vomiting. You have
> to
> use both old and new food, slowly increasing the proportions of the new
> food.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
> [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of
> longhornf...@verizon.net
> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 2:23 PM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FELV+, Struvite Crystals, and Nutrition
>
> Wow! I'm really surprised. I've had all my healthy cats on SD since they
> were kittens. One in particular loved it so much, he would inhale it. We
> had
> him on W/D. He was a big cat, a domestic orange & white kitty - he was
> almost 4 ft long from the tip of his paw to the end on his tail (not
> stretched, just when he laid down). He weighed 30 lbs, and lived to be 15
> 1/2 yrs. My 15 year old dachshund has been on SD since 8 weeks old. She is
> still very active & plays with my cat Kirby every chance she gets. I guess
> some do better on it more than others. I did try to switch her food to
> Nutro
> when she was about 5. She got sick every night. When I put her back on SD,
> she was fine. Just thought I would share my experience.
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Natalie 
> Sender: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
> Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 14:08:30
> To: 
> Reply-to: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FELV+, Struvite Crystals, and Nutrition
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
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>
> ___
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> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
> ___
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> ___
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> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>



-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902
___
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Re: [Felvtalk] Science Diet

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Yes, I use baby food (without onions and garlic, of course).   Not the
best, but it goes through a syringe!


On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 3:25 PM, Natalie  wrote:

> People always believe that if something is expensive, it MUSDT be good!
> Well, it's the exact opposite.  The only one I ever use is A-D when I have
> to syringe the food - and I add vitamins & minerals to it.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
> [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie
> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 5:00 PM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Science Diet
>
> On 08-31, Marcia wrote:
> >I think what really bothers me about Science Diet is that it is a low
> >quality food sold for a very high price AND the general public doesn't
> >know any of this!!
>
> Science Diet is really crappy food, and it's wrong of vets to push it. Not
> many people read labels or understand what low quality food it is, and they
> buy it because their vets sell it.  I'm sure vets get a kick back from the
> company.
>
> Lorrie
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>



-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] Science Diet

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Check out Dr. Deva Khalsa, author of The Natural Dog.   I don't recommend
her for homeopathics, but she is very up on research and does telephone
consultations.

On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 2:23 PM,  wrote:

> :(  my other dachshund is on Royal Canine Hepatic for her micro vascular
> dysplasia.
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -Original Message-
> From: pandie...@aol.com
> Sender: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
> Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 17:46:21
> To: 
> Reply-to: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Science Diet
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>



-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] FELV+, Struvite Crystals, and Nutrition

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Some of my cats adore veggies.   Cats can't taste sweet, did you know?  No
receptors for it.

On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 3:11 AM, Beth  wrote:

> They might just like veggies, plus corn is sweet. My cats are obsessed
> with lettuce.
>
> Beth
>
> Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org <http://www.furkids.org/>
>
>
>   --
> *From:* Lee Evans 
> *To:* "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org" 
> *Sent:* Friday, August 31, 2012 6:46 AM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] FELV+, Struvite Crystals, and Nutrition
>
> There's so much corn in cat food that when I opened a can of corn for
> myself recently, one of my cats ran over and began gobbling it.  Sheesh!
> Since I'm a vegetarian, they don't get leftovers like hamburger and
> chicken.  So they eat my corn and tofu.  Weird world.
>
>
> Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty
> neighbors too!
>
>
>   --
> *From:* Kathryn Hargreaves 
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Sent:* Friday, August 31, 2012 1:11 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] FELV+, Struvite Crystals, and Nutrition
>
> Not only are corn, wheat, and soy not cat food (they can't digest veggies
> very well, much less grains, which can give them diabetes and IBD), but
> unless the corn and soy are organic, they are most likely GMO, and soy can
> give cats Hyperthyroidism (I learned this the hard way on a 7-month-old who
> died).
>
> Yes, fish dries the system (ours, too), and is a mercury risk.
>
> I've already said what I think about dry food.
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 7:50 PM,  wrote:
>
> My Homey has had several bouts of crystals.  She liked the Hill's SD
> canned food, but not the dry.  I had taken my guys off Hills because they
> ahve corn, wheat and soy and they are allergic to those ingredients.  I now
> feed Blue buffalo dry DUCK.  We love that and also the duck canned food.
>  We hate chicken and fish which is okay because the vet said fish can be
> part of the problem.  I have tried to get them off the dry, but not too
> much luck.  Right now, Homey is okay.  I got water fountains and everyone
> loves them.  It recirculates the water thre a filter.  The plastic ones are
> okay, but need to be cleaned out more often.  I got one on line that is
> stainless steel.  Much better, lower profile so I can open cabinet doors
> without hitting it and it does not need to be cleaned as often.  With the
> fountains, the water is always moving, makes noise and they do drink more
> water.  You might try them.
>
>
>  Emma Beauchamp  wrote:
> > Hello All,
>
> My cat Gertrude Penelope Pennyapple is a one year old baby and she has had
> FELV probably since she was born. She has always been very healthy despite
> the FELV and a chronic upper respiratory infection, but recently (Sunday
> night) she contracted a UTI.  She had a urinalysis at the vet and 130
> dollars later she was diagnosed with an UTI, and Struvite Crystals were
> present in her bladder.  I was given an Antibiotic called Orbax and given
> Hill's Science Prescription diet S/D.  I bought a bag of Dry Food and a
> couple of cans of wet.
>
> My picky/anorexic cat hates both of them! She ate 1/3 of a can of the wet
> food yesterday, but hasn't touched it today, and she just kind of giggled
> at the dry food and turned away.
>
>
> After reading a few articles online, I'm kind of mad they sold me the dry
> food in the first place, since a big part of the struvite crystals is water
> intake!
>
> I was wondering if anybody has dealt with this issue before, and if so
> what kind of food/diet did you switch to?
>
> Before the prescription food I was feeding Gertie Whiskas brand meaty
> selections dry food, and occasionally their wet food as well.  I used to
> feed her exclusively Blue Buffalo Wet Food, but this summer funds were
> tight so I switched to the Whiskas, and she seemed to like it more anyway!
>
> So any suggestions/experiences would be welcome and helpful!!
>
> Emma Beauchamp
>
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
>
>
> --
> 
> Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!
>
> If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save
> their life.  Contact your local pound for information. 
> <http://www.laanimalservices.com/volunteer_fostercare.htm>
>
> If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
> to free up cage space.
&

Re: [Felvtalk] FELV+, Struvite Crystals, and Nutrition

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

I've been vegan for almost 20 years (vegetarian for some some before that),
so it's always funny when people see me buying so much meat for the cats.


On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 2:30 AM, Marcia Baronda wrote:

> Lee
> I'm a vegetarian too! It's nice to meet another(-:. But, yes I know what u
> mean, no meat leftovers for the kitties!
>
>
> Sent from my iPad that my most awesome kids surprised me with, Christmas
> 2010.
>
> On Aug 31, 2012, at 1:46 AM, Lee Evans  wrote:
>
> There's so much corn in cat food that when I opened a can of corn for
> myself recently, one of my cats ran over and began gobbling it.  Sheesh!
> Since I'm a vegetarian, they don't get leftovers like hamburger and
> chicken.  So they eat my corn and tofu.  Weird world.
>
>
> Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty
> neighbors too!
>
>
>   --
> *From:* Kathryn Hargreaves 
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Sent:* Friday, August 31, 2012 1:11 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] FELV+, Struvite Crystals, and Nutrition
>
> Not only are corn, wheat, and soy not cat food (they can't digest veggies
> very well, much less grains, which can give them diabetes and IBD), but
> unless the corn and soy are organic, they are most likely GMO, and soy can
> give cats Hyperthyroidism (I learned this the hard way on a 7-month-old who
> died).
>
> Yes, fish dries the system (ours, too), and is a mercury risk.
>
> I've already said what I think about dry food.
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 7:50 PM,  wrote:
>
> My Homey has had several bouts of crystals.  She liked the Hill's SD
> canned food, but not the dry.  I had taken my guys off Hills because they
> ahve corn, wheat and soy and they are allergic to those ingredients.  I now
> feed Blue buffalo dry DUCK.  We love that and also the duck canned food.
>  We hate chicken and fish which is okay because the vet said fish can be
> part of the problem.  I have tried to get them off the dry, but not too
> much luck.  Right now, Homey is okay.  I got water fountains and everyone
> loves them.  It recirculates the water thre a filter.  The plastic ones are
> okay, but need to be cleaned out more often.  I got one on line that is
> stainless steel.  Much better, lower profile so I can open cabinet doors
> without hitting it and it does not need to be cleaned as often.  With the
> fountains, the water is always moving, makes noise and they do drink more
> water.  You might try them.
>
>
>  Emma Beauchamp  wrote:
> > Hello All,
>
> My cat Gertrude Penelope Pennyapple is a one year old baby and she has had
> FELV probably since she was born. She has always been very healthy despite
> the FELV and a chronic upper respiratory infection, but recently (Sunday
> night) she contracted a UTI.  She had a urinalysis at the vet and 130
> dollars later she was diagnosed with an UTI, and Struvite Crystals were
> present in her bladder.  I was given an Antibiotic called Orbax and given
> Hill's Science Prescription diet S/D.  I bought a bag of Dry Food and a
> couple of cans of wet.
>
> My picky/anorexic cat hates both of them! She ate 1/3 of a can of the wet
> food yesterday, but hasn't touched it today, and she just kind of giggled
> at the dry food and turned away.
>
>
> After reading a few articles online, I'm kind of mad they sold me the dry
> food in the first place, since a big part of the struvite crystals is water
> intake!
>
> I was wondering if anybody has dealt with this issue before, and if so
> what kind of food/diet did you switch to?
>
> Before the prescription food I was feeding Gertie Whiskas brand meaty
> selections dry food, and occasionally their wet food as well.  I used to
> feed her exclusively Blue Buffalo Wet Food, but this summer funds were
> tight so I switched to the Whiskas, and she seemed to like it more anyway!
>
> So any suggestions/experiences would be welcome and helpful!!
>
> Emma Beauchamp
>
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
>
>
> --
> 
> Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!
>
> If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save
> their life.  Contact your local pound for information. 
> <http://www.laanimalservices.com/volunteer_fostercare.htm>
>
> If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
> to free up cage space.
>
>
> Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake 

Re: [Felvtalk] FELV+, Struvite Crystals, and Nutrition

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Please be careful of the soy.   That's how I killed that kitten.

On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 10:46 PM, Lee Evans  wrote:

> There's so much corn in cat food that when I opened a can of corn for
> myself recently, one of my cats ran over and began gobbling it.  Sheesh!
> Since I'm a vegetarian, they don't get leftovers like hamburger and
> chicken.  So they eat my corn and tofu.  Weird world.
>
>
>
> Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty
> neighbors too!
>
>
>   ------
> *From:* Kathryn Hargreaves 
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Sent:* Friday, August 31, 2012 1:11 AM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] FELV+, Struvite Crystals, and Nutrition
>
> Not only are corn, wheat, and soy not cat food (they can't digest veggies
> very well, much less grains, which can give them diabetes and IBD), but
> unless the corn and soy are organic, they are most likely GMO, and soy can
> give cats Hyperthyroidism (I learned this the hard way on a 7-month-old who
> died).
>
> Yes, fish dries the system (ours, too), and is a mercury risk.
>
> I've already said what I think about dry food.
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 7:50 PM,  wrote:
>
> My Homey has had several bouts of crystals.  She liked the Hill's SD
> canned food, but not the dry.  I had taken my guys off Hills because they
> ahve corn, wheat and soy and they are allergic to those ingredients.  I now
> feed Blue buffalo dry DUCK.  We love that and also the duck canned food.
>  We hate chicken and fish which is okay because the vet said fish can be
> part of the problem.  I have tried to get them off the dry, but not too
> much luck.  Right now, Homey is okay.  I got water fountains and everyone
> loves them.  It recirculates the water thre a filter.  The plastic ones are
> okay, but need to be cleaned out more often.  I got one on line that is
> stainless steel.  Much better, lower profile so I can open cabinet doors
> without hitting it and it does not need to be cleaned as often.  With the
> fountains, the water is always moving, makes noise and they do drink more
> water.  You might try them.
>
>
>  Emma Beauchamp  wrote:
> > Hello All,
>
> My cat Gertrude Penelope Pennyapple is a one year old baby and she has had
> FELV probably since she was born. She has always been very healthy despite
> the FELV and a chronic upper respiratory infection, but recently (Sunday
> night) she contracted a UTI.  She had a urinalysis at the vet and 130
> dollars later she was diagnosed with an UTI, and Struvite Crystals were
> present in her bladder.  I was given an Antibiotic called Orbax and given
> Hill's Science Prescription diet S/D.  I bought a bag of Dry Food and a
> couple of cans of wet.
>
> My picky/anorexic cat hates both of them! She ate 1/3 of a can of the wet
> food yesterday, but hasn't touched it today, and she just kind of giggled
> at the dry food and turned away.
>
>
> After reading a few articles online, I'm kind of mad they sold me the dry
> food in the first place, since a big part of the struvite crystals is water
> intake!
>
> I was wondering if anybody has dealt with this issue before, and if so
> what kind of food/diet did you switch to?
>
> Before the prescription food I was feeding Gertie Whiskas brand meaty
> selections dry food, and occasionally their wet food as well.  I used to
> feed her exclusively Blue Buffalo Wet Food, but this summer funds were
> tight so I switched to the Whiskas, and she seemed to like it more anyway!
>
> So any suggestions/experiences would be welcome and helpful!!
>
> Emma Beauchamp
>
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
>
>
> --
> 
> Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!
>
> If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save
> their life.  Contact your local pound for information. 
> <http://www.laanimalservices.com/volunteer_fostercare.htm>
>
> If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
> to free up cage space.
>
>
> Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
> implementing the No Kill Equation:
> http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/<http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/>
>
> Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
> http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/
>
> Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org
>
&

Re: [Felvtalk] FELV+, Struvite Crystals, and Nutrition

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Not only are corn, wheat, and soy not cat food (they can't digest veggies
very well, much less grains, which can give them diabetes and IBD), but
unless the corn and soy are organic, they are most likely GMO, and soy can
give cats Hyperthyroidism (I learned this the hard way on a 7-month-old who
died).

Yes, fish dries the system (ours, too), and is a mercury risk.

I've already said what I think about dry food.


On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 7:50 PM,  wrote:

> My Homey has had several bouts of crystals.  She liked the Hill's SD
> canned food, but not the dry.  I had taken my guys off Hills because they
> ahve corn, wheat and soy and they are allergic to those ingredients.  I now
> feed Blue buffalo dry DUCK.  We love that and also the duck canned food.
>  We hate chicken and fish which is okay because the vet said fish can be
> part of the problem.  I have tried to get them off the dry, but not too
> much luck.  Right now, Homey is okay.  I got water fountains and everyone
> loves them.  It recirculates the water thre a filter.  The plastic ones are
> okay, but need to be cleaned out more often.  I got one on line that is
> stainless steel.  Much better, lower profile so I can open cabinet doors
> without hitting it and it does not need to be cleaned as often.  With the
> fountains, the water is always moving, makes noise and they do drink more
> water.  You might try them.
>
>
>  Emma Beauchamp  wrote:
> > Hello All,
>
> My cat Gertrude Penelope Pennyapple is a one year old baby and she has had
> FELV probably since she was born. She has always been very healthy despite
> the FELV and a chronic upper respiratory infection, but recently (Sunday
> night) she contracted a UTI.  She had a urinalysis at the vet and 130
> dollars later she was diagnosed with an UTI, and Struvite Crystals were
> present in her bladder.  I was given an Antibiotic called Orbax and given
> Hill's Science Prescription diet S/D.  I bought a bag of Dry Food and a
> couple of cans of wet.
>
> My picky/anorexic cat hates both of them! She ate 1/3 of a can of the wet
> food yesterday, but hasn't touched it today, and she just kind of giggled
> at the dry food and turned away.
>
>
> After reading a few articles online, I'm kind of mad they sold me the dry
> food in the first place, since a big part of the struvite crystals is water
> intake!
>
> I was wondering if anybody has dealt with this issue before, and if so
> what kind of food/diet did you switch to?
>
> Before the prescription food I was feeding Gertie Whiskas brand meaty
> selections dry food, and occasionally their wet food as well.  I used to
> feed her exclusively Blue Buffalo Wet Food, but this summer funds were
> tight so I switched to the Whiskas, and she seemed to like it more anyway!
>
> So any suggestions/experiences would be welcome and helpful!!
>
> Emma Beauchamp
>
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>



-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] FELV+, Struvite Crystals, and Nutrition

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Some say that has no effect, as cats don't metabolize fruit all that well.

On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 7:21 PM, Lee Evans  wrote:

> Would some type of cranberry extract help, maybe mixed with the recipe
> mentioned?  Holistic methods of UTI in humans uses cranberry juice, extract
> and capsules of cranberry extract for this type of situation.  Not sure
> cats and cranberries would get along very well but you might google that
> also.
>
>
> Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty
> neighbors too!
>
>
>   ------
> *From:* Kathryn Hargreaves 
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 30, 2012 10:17 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] FELV+, Struvite Crystals, and Nutrition
>
> See http://holisticat.com/flutd.html   That site also has diet recipes,
> or you could write me for mine (which is a chicken version much like found
> on other sites).   Keep track of the urine pH (using a SmartCat
> litterbox?).  I found that Vitamin C didn't help much getting the acidity
> up, but feeding beef did.   You'll have to look at the recipes for
> preground meat, to get the right amount of calcium, etc., in there.
>
> Hill's Science diet is unscientific.   Dry is verboten no matter what it's
> made of.
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 11:38 AM, Emma Beauchamp wrote:
>
> Hello All,
>
> My cat Gertrude Penelope Pennyapple is a one year old baby and she has had
> FELV probably since she was born. She has always been very healthy despite
> the FELV and a chronic upper respiratory infection, but recently (Sunday
> night) she contracted a UTI.  She had a urinalysis at the vet and 130
> dollars later she was diagnosed with an UTI, and Struvite Crystals were
> present in her bladder.  I was given an Antibiotic called Orbax and given
> Hill's Science Prescription diet S/D.  I bought a bag of Dry Food and a
> couple of cans of wet.
>
> My picky/anorexic cat hates both of them! She ate 1/3 of a can of the wet
> food yesterday, but hasn't touched it today, and she just kind of giggled
> at the dry food and turned away.
>
> After reading a few articles online, I'm kind of mad they sold me the dry
> food in the first place, since a big part of the struvite crystals is water
> intake!
>
> I was wondering if anybody has dealt with this issue before, and if so
> what kind of food/diet did you switch to?
>
> Before the prescription food I was feeding Gertie Whiskas brand meaty
> selections dry food, and occasionally their wet food as well.  I used to
> feed her exclusively Blue Buffalo Wet Food, but this summer funds were
> tight so I switched to the Whiskas, and she seemed to like it more anyway!
>
> So any suggestions/experiences would be welcome and helpful!!
>
> Emma Beauchamp
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
>
>
> --
> 
> Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!
>
> If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save
> their life.  Contact your local pound for information. 
> <http://www.laanimalservices.com/volunteer_fostercare.htm>
>
> If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
> to free up cage space.
>
>
> Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
> implementing the No Kill Equation:
> http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/<http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/>
>
> Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
> http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/
>
> Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org
>
> More fun reading:
> http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/
>
> More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
> http://vimeo.com/48445902
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.
<http://www.laanimalservices.com/volunteer_fostercare.htm>

If you ca

Re: [Felvtalk] FELV+, Struvite Crystals, and Nutrition

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

See http://holisticat.com/flutd.html   That site also has diet recipes, or
you could write me for mine (which is a chicken version much like found on
other sites).   Keep track of the urine pH (using a SmartCat litterbox?).
 I found that Vitamin C didn't help much getting the acidity up, but
feeding beef did.   You'll have to look at the recipes for preground meat,
to get the right amount of calcium, etc., in there.

Hill's Science diet is unscientific.   Dry is verboten no matter what it's
made of.


On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 11:38 AM, Emma Beauchamp  wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> My cat Gertrude Penelope Pennyapple is a one year old baby and she has had
> FELV probably since she was born. She has always been very healthy despite
> the FELV and a chronic upper respiratory infection, but recently (Sunday
> night) she contracted a UTI.  She had a urinalysis at the vet and 130
> dollars later she was diagnosed with an UTI, and Struvite Crystals were
> present in her bladder.  I was given an Antibiotic called Orbax and given
> Hill's Science Prescription diet S/D.  I bought a bag of Dry Food and a
> couple of cans of wet.
>
> My picky/anorexic cat hates both of them! She ate 1/3 of a can of the wet
> food yesterday, but hasn't touched it today, and she just kind of giggled
> at the dry food and turned away.
>
> After reading a few articles online, I'm kind of mad they sold me the dry
> food in the first place, since a big part of the struvite crystals is water
> intake!
>
> I was wondering if anybody has dealt with this issue before, and if so
> what kind of food/diet did you switch to?
>
> Before the prescription food I was feeding Gertie Whiskas brand meaty
> selections dry food, and occasionally their wet food as well.  I used to
> feed her exclusively Blue Buffalo Wet Food, but this summer funds were
> tight so I switched to the Whiskas, and she seemed to like it more anyway!
>
> So any suggestions/experiences would be welcome and helpful!!
>
> Emma Beauchamp
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] FeLV & Ascites?

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Isn't it impossible to diagnose FIP?

On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 9:54 AM, GRAS  wrote:

> Oh, no – poor baby!  I am so sorry!
>
> The vet couldn’t think of trying anything else?
>
> I also found that when they don’t respond to antibiotics, toxoplasmosis
> may be present, and it took me over 6 months, 2 yrs ago, of medicating to
> finally get rid of it – the kitten was negative on everything else.
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:
> felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf Of *Forgotten Felines
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2012 1:28 PM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] FeLV & Ascites?
>
> ** **
>
> She also had a fever that wouldn't respond to antibiotics, not even a cool
> cloth, and diarrhea. Kaya had a vet appointment on Monday and was diagnosed
> with FIP, so I put her to sleep before it could get any worse =(
>
> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Natalie  wrote:
>
> http://www.medicinenet.com/ascites/article.htm - this should answer some
> of your questions about ascites.
>
> Learn about *ascites*, accumulation of fluid in the abdominal cavity.
> Some common causes of *ascites* include liver disease or cirrhosis,
> portal hypertension, cancers. ...
>
> We had a cat with cancer, and he had to have ascites drained several
> times; unfortunately, our vet said that you can’t do it only so often….***
> *
>
> Don’t jump to conclusions that it’s FIP!~
>
> Natalie
>
> *From:* felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:
> felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf Of *Forgotten Felines
> *Sent:* Sunday, August 26, 2012 6:01 PM
> *To:* Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>
>
> *Subject:* [Felvtalk] FeLV & Ascites?
>
>  
>
> My FeLV+ kitten developed ascites and I'm worried the vet is going to tell
> me it's FIP. Does anyone know if ascites is ever related to FeLV?
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
> ** **
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] outdoor cats plight/free food?/reply

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

If they won't go cold turkey, start adding small amounts of the food you
want them to eat, gradually increasing it and decreasing the amounts of the
food you don't want them to eat.   You'll end up by crumbling the dry food
onto the full portion of the new food, and then you can test if you can
stop that, too.


On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 5:24 PM,  wrote:

> Ok, I goofed.  My guys are on dry "blue buffalo duck.  How do I break the
> adiction?
>
>
>  GRAS  wrote:
> > Feeding dry food to outside cats is often the only option, especially in
> the winter, so that the food doesn’t freeze.  Dry food should never be the
> ONLY food for cats, but as a supplement, it’s OK.  Unfortunately, many
> people feed only dry food. It was found that dry food is extremely
> addictive to cats because of what they put into it.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:
> felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn Hargreaves
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 9:10 AM
> > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] outdoor cats plight/free food?/reply
> >
> >
> >
> > The cheapest yet healthiest food I've found is raw that I mix up myself,
> using balanced recipes online  (I can send you links and my own recipe, if
> you like).   I buy at Whole Foods, so I'm paying about twice what you could
> otherwise---and I'm still only paying about half the amount of the best
> commercial canned food out there (currently Merrick Before Grain, even
> though Merrick has had some complaints about their dog food).   That's
> about 70 cents/day/cat, and you could probably be doing it for 35
> cents/day/cat.  You'll also save on vet bills for diabetes, etc., and they
> won't be as susceptible to urinary problems, which can kill a male in hours
> before you even notice it.
> >
> >
> >
> > A local pet store gives me outdated raw and canned food.  (I refuse the
> dry food, as it's so bad for cats.)   If you let them know you're feeding
> ferals, one of yours may do the same.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 4:58 AM, Beth  wrote:
> >
> > Talk to local rescues. Our rescue strictly uses Science Diet, so when
> people donate other kinds of food, they give it to volunteers or feral
> feeders. Sometimes it's really high quality food, sometimes not.
> >
> > We also have something called Daffy's Pet Soup Kitchen which provides
> food to people who cannot afford it. There are 2 organizations like that in
> our area.
> >
> > The best thing to do would be to get friendly with a shelter that can
> provide you with info on resources.
> >
> >
> > Beth
> >
> > Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org <http://www.furkids.org/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >   _
> >
> > From: dot winkler 
> > To: "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org" 
> >
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 11:24 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] outdoor cats plight/free food?/reply
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Beth - how do I find out about places that donate food?  Or how do I
> get it at cost?  I work alone and don't belong to an organization.  thanks,
> Dot
> >
> >
> >
> >   _
> >
> > From: Beth 
> > To: "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org" 
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 4:58 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] outdoor cats plight/free food?
> >
> >
> >
> > Are there any places which donate food in your area? We have several in
> Atlanta. Also rescues can sometimes get food to feral feeders at cost. You
> could also set up a Chip-in for people to donate $ for food.
> >
> >
> >
> > Beth
> >
> >
> >
> > Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org <http://www.furkids.org/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >   _
> >
> > From: dot winkler 
> > To: "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org" 
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 8:21 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] outdoor cats plight/free food?
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi  I was reading your mail.  What did you mean about "that is the price
> of free food?"  Do you receive food free for feeding the cats?  I do not
> TNR.  I don't belong to any program.  Just my lone self feeding the 7 cats.
>  (they are all neutered except 2 by someone else) I have spent so much
> money on them each week.  Money I don't have.  It is getting to be a bad
> situatio

Re: [Felvtalk] outdoor cats plight/free food?/reply

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

The cheapest yet healthiest food I've found is raw that I mix up myself,
using balanced recipes online  (I can send you links and my own recipe, if
you like).   I buy at Whole Foods, so I'm paying about twice what you could
otherwise---and I'm still only paying about half the amount of the best
commercial canned food out there (currently Merrick Before Grain, even
though Merrick has had some complaints about their dog food).   That's
about 70 cents/day/cat, and you could probably be doing it for 35
cents/day/cat.  You'll also save on vet bills for diabetes, etc., and they
won't be as susceptible to urinary problems, which can kill a male in hours
before you even notice it.

A local pet store gives me outdated raw and canned food.  (I refuse the dry
food, as it's so bad for cats.)   If you let them know you're feeding
ferals, one of yours may do the same.


On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 4:58 AM, Beth  wrote:

> Talk to local rescues. Our rescue strictly uses Science Diet, so when
> people donate other kinds of food, they give it to volunteers or feral
> feeders. Sometimes it's really high quality food, sometimes not.
> We also have something called Daffy's Pet Soup Kitchen which provides food
> to people who cannot afford it. There are 2 organizations like that in our
> area.
> The best thing to do would be to get friendly with a shelter that can
> provide you with info on resources.
>
> Beth
> Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org 
>
>
>   --
> *From:* dot winkler 
> *To:* "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org" 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2012 11:24 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] outdoor cats plight/free food?/reply
>
> Hi Beth - how do I find out about places that donate food?  Or how do I
> get it at cost?  I work alone and don't belong to an organization.  thanks,
> Dot
>
>   --
> *From:* Beth 
> *To:* "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org" 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 28, 2012 4:58 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] outdoor cats plight/free food?
>
> Are there any places which donate food in your area? We have several in
> Atlanta. Also rescues can sometimes get food to feral feeders at cost. You
> could also set up a Chip-in for people to donate $ for food.
>
> Beth
>
> Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org 
>
>
>   --
> *From:* dot winkler 
> *To:* "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org" 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 28, 2012 8:21 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] outdoor cats plight/free food?
>
> Hi  I was reading your mail.  What did you mean about "that is the price
> of free food?"  Do you receive food free for feeding the cats?  I do not
> TNR.  I don't belong to any program.  Just my lone self feeding the 7 cats.
>  (they are all neutered except 2 by someone else) I have spent so much
> money on them each week.  Money I don't have.  It is getting to be a bad
> situation for me.
>
>   --
>
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Stomatitis

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Were you doing steroids all through this process?

On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 8:11 AM, Susan Hoffman wrote:

> Snowy had three separate procedures -- the first to extract teeth, then
> when that did not solve the problem she had the first laser treatment, and
> then she went back for a touch-up with the laser.  So we were doing pain
> meds before, during and after.
>
> Snowy's situation was pretty extreme.  Her gums were purple and the pain
> was so severe that she could not eat on her own.  If I tried to put
> medicine in her mouth she went ballistic.  Her mouth was on fire and
> everything hurt.  We wound up doing injectible buprenex for the pain.  This
> allowed her to eat.  I hid her prednisone in cat food.  And then I tucked
> her in a cage at night with a plate of clindamycin-spiked tuna.  That was
> our process.  But without really serious opiate based pain meds none of
> this would have worked.
>
> I also spent a lot of time hand feeding her.  She was able to lick from my
> fingers what she could not eat from the plate.  I think the plate may have
> bumped or rubbed her gums.
>
> The laser was NOT the sort that could be done without anesthesia.  This
> cat was in such extreme pain that she could not even be examined without
> sedation.  This was an invasive procedure that burned away the bad tissue
> and allowed new tissue to grow in its place.  It worked.  I really thought
> we were going to have to euthanize this cat.  But the laser really worked.
> Still, it was a difficult several months and the recovery process was
> slow.  The pain meds were essential to getting both Snowy and me through
> this.
>
>   *From:* Natalie 
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Sent:* Friday, August 24, 2012 9:01 AM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Stomatitis
>
>   Do you mean after the laser treatment?
>
>
>  *From:* felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:
> felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf Of *Susan Hoffman
> *Sent:* Friday, August 24, 2012 11:44 AM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Stomatitis
>
>  If the stomatitis is severe and the cat is having trouble eating, really
> consider heavy duty pain meds like buprenex during the treatment process.
> I know that Snowy and I would not have gotten through it all without
> serious pain management.
>
>
>   *From:* Natalie 
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Sent:* Friday, August 24, 2012 7:34 AM
> *Subject:* [Felvtalk] FW: Stomatitis
>
>
>  Since I wouldn’t be able to give the two FIV+ cats anything orally,
> especially so much of it, having huge daily struggles, probably getting
> kicked and bitten…..
>
>  I will definitely look into the cold laser solution!
>
>
>   *From:* felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [
> mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org]
> *On Behalf Of *Beth
> *Sent:* Friday, August 24, 2012 9:34 AM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Stomatitis
>
>   Wow. I love holistic approaches, but I'd be afraid my cats would die
> from stress related illness before the stomatitis was cured. I have to wrap
> them in a towel to get meds in them. Do you mix it in their food?
>  I have heard great things about the laser procedure.
>
> Beth
>  Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! http://www.furkids.org/
>
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] Stomatitis

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Yes, you can put it in food.  Often putting herbs in cats' food, however,
will cause anorexia, so if that occurs, start with a small amount and add
more each day.  You can also put tuna juice or some other bribe food on
top, so they won't smell the herbs.

Try just the Coptis Purge Fire.  If that doesn't work alone, try one course
of Clavamox, which will help for a month or so anyways.  If you see
improvement beyond that, then the Coptis Purge Fire is working.  If not,
then try adding some of the other supplements.   I'd feed the good food no
matter what.


I didn't try the laser for stomatitis, but did try the K Laser on another
cat's ear, for an infection.  It didn't work, but it did work marvelously
for cat bites (on me).   I don't see any reason not to try it.   You have
to protect the cat's eyes (and your own) during treatment.


On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 5:33 AM, Beth  wrote:

> Wow. I love holistic approaches, but I'd be afraid my cats would die from
> stress related illness before the stomatitis was cured. I have to wrap them
> in a towel to get meds in them. Do you mix it in their food?
> I have heard great things about the laser procedure.
>
> Beth
> Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org <http://www.furkids.org/>
>
>
>   --
> *From:* Natalie 
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 23, 2012 11:17 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Stomatitis
>
> *Thank you – looking at it, I honestly don’t believe that I would be able
> to manage giving it all to the 2 very skittish FIV+ cats, maybe one day…*
> *But I will file it away to use on cats who would allow me to do this!*
> *Natalie  =^..^=*
> *  *
> *From:* felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:
> felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf Of *Kathryn Hargreaves
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 23, 2012 6:46 PM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Stomatitis
>
> Holistic Stomatitis Protocol
>
> Note that holistic approaches take longer than do allopathic ones.   These
> the supplements we've been using, but it doesn't mean some aren't
> optional.  What seemed to turn things around was one course of antibiotics
> along with Coptis Purge Fire.  You may have to continue with Coptis Purge
> Fire forever.   We've just gotten rid of the stomatitis symptoms and have
> not tried stopping the supplements.   It's better than extractions, which
> some say only work 50% of the time, and are expensive and invasive to boot.
>
>
> Supplements
> Health Concerns  Coptis Purge Fire (2 tablets if 1 doesn't work)
> CoQ10  30mg (Dr. Clark)
> Vitamin A  25000 IU (Metagenics Mycelized Drops)
> Vitamin E (dry, no soy)  200 IU (may be optional)
> Lysine  500mg
> Standard Process Whole Body Support  1/2 to 1 tablet
> Standard Process Immune Support  1 tablet
> Tumeric  450mg   1/2 capsule
>
> Can also try:
> Colostrum 100mg / Lactoferrin 10mg (separate from food)
>
>
> Palliative Homeopathy
> (as opposed to Classical---not really recommended, but here for
> completeness)
> Mercurius 30C
>
>
> Meds
> Antibiotics if really, really bad infections.  Can do it once to get
> things to a level at which the cat can recover with supplements.  Use
> probiotics separately (that is, at least an hour apart) for stomach flora.
>
>
> Cleanings
> Non-anesthetic sonic cleanings to keep gums clean.  In Los Angeles, Kim
> Haba is an excellent dental tech (see below) who can do such cleanings.
> Don't feed ground bones if they are getting caught in any gum pockets; use
> calcium carbonate supplments instead to balance the Ca:Phos ratio (about
> 1400 mg per pound of ground meat).
>
>
> Topical
> Oxyfresh in the water.
>
>
> Pus in gums: Myrhh. Make a dilution by adding 1 teaspoon of the tincture
> (the alcoholic extract) to a cup of water. Gently apply this to the gums
> once or twice a day. Either use a soft toothbrush or, if the gums are too
> sensitive for this, flush the gums with this solution using a syringe.
>
>
> Diet
> Raw diet, per http://catnutrition.org   My recipe with local suppliers
> available on request from khargrea...@gmail.com
>
>
>
> Developed with the help of Dr. Audra MacCorkle
> http://holisticanimaldoctor.com  and the forum folks on
> http://holisticat.com
>
>
> Dental cleanings in the Los Angeles area:
> Four Paws Dental Care
> Anesthesia Free Teeth Cleaning for Dogs and Cats
> Kim Haba
> 310-699.0036
> k...@fourpawsdentalcare.com
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 7:52 AM, Natalie  wrote:
> Kathryn,
> I now that you posted the holistic stomatitis protocol a while back, I
> t

Re: [Felvtalk] Stomatitis

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

As I wrote at the top, you can try just the abx just once and then Coptis
Purge Fire.   We really didn't know what had helped, but things started
getting better when we did those two.  The Coptis Purge Fire can go into
food, especially if you introduce it slowly, just a pinch to begin with.
You can crush the tablet or use a mortar and pestle.


On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 3:17 PM, Natalie  wrote:

> *Thank you – looking at it, I honestly don’t believe that I would be able
> to manage giving it all to the 2 very skittish FIV+ cats, maybe one day…*
>
> *But I will file it away to use on cats who would allow me to do this!*
>
> *Natalie  =^..^=*
>
> * *
>
> *From:* felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:
> felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf Of *Kathryn Hargreaves
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 23, 2012 6:46 PM
>
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Stomatitis
>
> ** **
>
> Holistic Stomatitis Protocol
>
>
> Note that holistic approaches take longer than do allopathic ones.   These
> the supplements we've been using, but it doesn't mean some aren't
> optional.  What seemed to turn things around was one course of antibiotics
> along with Coptis Purge Fire.  You may have to continue with Coptis Purge
> Fire forever.   We've just gotten rid of the stomatitis symptoms and have
> not tried stopping the supplements.   It's better than extractions, which
> some say only work 50% of the time, and are expensive and invasive to boot.
>
>
> Supplements
> Health Concerns  Coptis Purge Fire (2 tablets if 1 doesn't work)
> CoQ10  30mg (Dr. Clark)
> Vitamin A  25000 IU (Metagenics Mycelized Drops)
> Vitamin E (dry, no soy)  200 IU (may be optional)
> Lysine  500mg
> Standard Process Whole Body Support  1/2 to 1 tablet
> Standard Process Immune Support  1 tablet
> Tumeric  450mg   1/2 capsule
>
> Can also try:
> Colostrum 100mg / Lactoferrin 10mg (separate from food)
>
>
> Palliative Homeopathy
> (as opposed to Classical---not really recommended, but here for
> completeness)
> Mercurius 30C
>
>
> Meds
> Antibiotics if really, really bad infections.  Can do it once to get
> things to a level at which the cat can recover with supplements.  Use
> probiotics separately (that is, at least an hour apart) for stomach flora.
>
>
> Cleanings
> Non-anesthetic sonic cleanings to keep gums clean.  In Los Angeles, Kim
> Haba is an excellent dental tech (see below) who can do such cleanings.
> Don't feed ground bones if they are getting caught in any gum pockets; use
> calcium carbonate supplments instead to balance the Ca:Phos ratio (about
> 1400 mg per pound of ground meat).
>
>
> Topical
> Oxyfresh in the water.
>
>
> Pus in gums: Myrhh. Make a dilution by adding 1 teaspoon of the tincture
> (the alcoholic extract) to a cup of water. Gently apply this to the gums
> once or twice a day. Either use a soft toothbrush or, if the gums are too
> sensitive for this, flush the gums with this solution using a syringe.
>
>
> Diet
> Raw diet, per http://catnutrition.org   My recipe with local suppliers
> available on request from khargrea...@gmail.com
>
>
>
> Developed with the help of Dr. Audra MacCorkle
> http://holisticanimaldoctor.com  and the forum folks on
> http://holisticat.com
>
>
> Dental cleanings in the Los Angeles area:
> Four Paws Dental Care
> Anesthesia Free Teeth Cleaning for Dogs and Cats
> Kim Haba
> 310-699.0036
> k...@fourpawsdentalcare.com
>
>
>
> 
>
> On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 7:52 AM, Natalie  wrote:
>
> Kathryn,
>
> I now that you posted the holistic stomatitis protocol a while back, I
> thought that I saved it, but can’t find it.
>
> I would very much like to try it on two of our FIV+ cats with stomatitis –
> one case is severe, one just a little.  
>
> However, those cats are not easy to handle…would I be able to use it on
> them?
>
> Natalie  =^..^=
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
>
>
> --
> 
> Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!
>
> ** **
>
> If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save
> their life.  Contact your local pound for information. 
>
> ** **
>
> If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
> to free up cage space.
>
> ** **
>
>
> Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
> impl

Re: [Felvtalk] Stomatitis

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Holistic Stomatitis Protocol

Note that holistic approaches take longer than do allopathic ones.   These
the supplements we've been using, but it doesn't mean some aren't
optional.  What seemed to turn things around was one course of antibiotics
along with Coptis Purge Fire.  You may have to continue with Coptis Purge
Fire forever.   We've just gotten rid of the stomatitis symptoms and have
not tried stopping the supplements.   It's better than extractions, which
some say only work 50% of the time, and are expensive and invasive to boot.


Supplements
Health Concerns  Coptis Purge Fire (2 tablets if 1 doesn't work)
CoQ10  30mg (Dr. Clark)
Vitamin A  25000 IU (Metagenics Mycelized Drops)
Vitamin E (dry, no soy)  200 IU (may be optional)
Lysine  500mg
Standard Process Whole Body Support  1/2 to 1 tablet
Standard Process Immune Support  1 tablet
Tumeric  450mg   1/2 capsule

Can also try:
Colostrum 100mg / Lactoferrin 10mg (separate from food)


Palliative Homeopathy
(as opposed to Classical---not really recommended, but here for
completeness)
Mercurius 30C


Meds
Antibiotics if really, really bad infections.  Can do it once to get things
to a level at which the cat can recover with supplements.  Use probiotics
separately (that is, at least an hour apart) for stomach flora.


Cleanings
Non-anesthetic sonic cleanings to keep gums clean.  In Los Angeles, Kim
Haba is an excellent dental tech (see below) who can do such cleanings.
Don't feed ground bones if they are getting caught in any gum pockets; use
calcium carbonate supplments instead to balance the Ca:Phos ratio (about
1400 mg per pound of ground meat).


Topical
Oxyfresh in the water.


Pus in gums: Myrhh. Make a dilution by adding 1 teaspoon of the tincture
(the alcoholic extract) to a cup of water. Gently apply this to the gums
once or twice a day. Either use a soft toothbrush or, if the gums are too
sensitive for this, flush the gums with this solution using a syringe.


Diet
Raw diet, per http://catnutrition.org   My recipe with local suppliers
available on request from khargrea...@gmail.com



Developed with the help of Dr. Audra MacCorkle
http://holisticanimaldoctor.com  and the forum folks on
http://holisticat.com


Dental cleanings in the Los Angeles area:
Four Paws Dental Care
Anesthesia Free Teeth Cleaning for Dogs and Cats
Kim Haba
310-699.0036
k...@fourpawsdentalcare.com




On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 7:52 AM, Natalie  wrote:

> Kathryn,
>
> I now that you posted the holistic stomatitis protocol a while back, I
> thought that I saved it, but can’t find it.
>
> I would very much like to try it on two of our FIV+ cats with stomatitis –
> one case is severe, one just a little.  
>
> However, those cats are not easy to handle…would I be able to use it on
> them?
>
> Natalie  =^..^=
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] Sick FeLV+ Kitten

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Lee, would you like me to send you my holistic stomatitis protocol?   It
worked on both my cats (not Felv+, though), one of which had it so bad that
blood spurted out his mouth whenever he opened it.


On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 11:05 AM, Lee Evans  wrote:

> A false negative is possible but not probable since they were living
> together before you took them in or at least had contact with each other.
> FeLv is NOT as contagious as vets would have you think but I do isolate the
> positives from the negatives anyway.  Steroids are only to be used in
> extreme emergency. They should not be given as a continuous medication.  I
> do give my cat with stomatitis a steroid shot every two to three months if
> needed, maybe less if the stomatitis looks like it is interfering with his
> ability to eat.  Other than that, I stay away from continuous medications
> in general.  The liver and kidneys can be severely stressed and compromised
> by having to deal with continuous doses of medications (poisons is what
> they are even if they are supposed to only poison viruses and bacterium).
> Controlling disorders by a good natural diet is a terrific way to control
> or eliminate most problems.  The occasional antibiotic shot or steroid
> should be given when needed of course, but always question the vet as to
> why it would be needed and would there be an alternative to giving the med.
>
>
>
> Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty
> neighbors too!
>
>
>   --
> *From:* Forgotten Felines 
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 22, 2012 1:13 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Sick FeLV+ Kitten
>
> That's a huge relief. Not sure where I'd read the steroids thing, but my
> heart sunk seeing it, so I couldn't be more pleased to hear that's not the
> case.
>
> I'll definitely re-test Kaya, but I was also wondering, is there any
> chance the other kittens could've had a false neg? Like perhaps I tested
> them too soon after exposure?
>
> On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 1:57 PM, Lee Evans  wrote:
>
> Kaya should be treated like a kitten who got sick.  Kittens do this
> regularly and because their immune systems are not as fully developed as a
> cat's is, they tend to go downhill fast if not given extra food, meds,
> etc..  Do NOT put this cat on steroids.  It will compromise her immune
> system even more and ruin her kidney function.  Most of my FeLv cats were
> healthy until a week or two before the disease zapped them.  Most of the
> kittens threw off both FeLv and FIV.  Several adult cats with FeLv tested
> negative after 90 days.  It's not a death sentence and it's not something
> you need to treat with meds for the rest of their lives.
>
>
> Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty
> neighbors too!
>
>
>   --
> *From:* Forgotten Felines 
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 22, 2012 12:47 PM
> *Subject:* [Felvtalk] Sick FeLV+ Kitten
>
> One of the 3 kittens I recently rescued tested positive for FeLV on the
> snap test. Although we're going to run the advanced test in about a month,
> Kaya gets sick very easily and loses several ounces when she does. Kaya is
> almost 5 months old now, 3 lbs 2 oz, and we've had her for nearly 2 months.
> At the time, we were told the kittens were related and tested a different
> one. They all have herpesvirus, which after being passed around we chose to
> isolate them separately. When Kaya became deathly sick the second time, our
> vet wanted to test her. Realizing none were related, we also retested the
> other two who came back negative. This is my first experience with FeLV and
> I have so many questions that seem to get conflicting answers.
>
> First, how do I care for a FeLV+ kitten/cat? She's recovering quickly with
> a mix of Natural Balance kibble and high cal/high stink (A/D prescription)
> wet food, with added cat-appropriate vitamin C and Viralys (lysine) and
> Nutri-Cal, but is there anything else I should be giving her while she's
> sick? Or when she's healthy again?
>
> Will she need to be on steroids or other medications for the rest of her
> life, or can this be managed holistically?
>
> Once the other kittens are healthy enough for vaccines, could I start them
> on the FeLV vac and let them have supervised visits? They were together for
> 2-3 months pre-testing and never got it, and are therefore missing each
> other quite a bit! And if all the cats and kittens in the house are UTD,
> does Kaya really need to be quarantined until she finds her forever home?
> (3 adults and 4 kittens, including her.)
>
> Thanks,
> Jill
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.o

Re: [Felvtalk] FelV positive kittens

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Actually, the good news is that the first two years are purportedly
analogous to our becoming adults, e.g., ~24, so they lived the best years
of their lives.  Fun calculator here:
http://www.purina.co.uk/content/your-cat/understanding-your-cat/as-your-cat-ages/your-cat%27s-age-in-human-years


On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 7:54 AM, Lee Evans  wrote:

>   Unfortunately, Smooch and Taco were also adult FeLv+ cats, stayed
> positive after 90 days.  They roomed together, separate from my other cats
> for 2 years, died within a month of each other.  Sad but at least they had
> those 2 years.  Two years to a cat is like 5 years to us.  Hugs to you and
> the kittens.
>
> Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty
> neighbors too!
>
>
>   --
> **
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] off topic - - removing kitten's eye

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Lorrie,

Does it work to give your Herpes kitty more Lysine per day?   It did with
mine.

Kathy

On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 3:22 AM, Lorrie  wrote:

> > Briefly I chose to "foster" 3 kittens with significant conjunctivitis
> from
> > the local pound about 2 weeks and 2 days ago.  That was on a Saturday.  I
> > knew come Monday they would be killed.  I have spent significant $ of my
> $
> > by choice..
>
> I have been doing rescue work for 35 years and I've seen  many eyes that
> were severely infected.  Having one eye doesn't seem to affect their
> ability to get adopted, in fact people often feel they want to help cats
> with one eye or minus a leg. My neighbor just adopted a totally blind
> cat.  I couldn't get her to take one of mine (I have way too many cats)
> but she adopted this blind cat from the vet's office!
>
> I still have a cat who is blind in one eye and another with chronic
> herpes infection. His eyes must be wiped out every day to keep them
> from being goopy.  They are permanent cats at our home.   There is no
> cure for the virus as antibiotics have been tried, but will not work
> on viral infections only bacterial infections.
>
> Lorrie
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>



-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

I wish mandatory s/n worked, but apparently it doesn't correlate with lower
pound intakes.  They went up when my town passed mandatory s/n.  (Whereas
they went down when we implemented low-cost s/n.)   From Ryan Clinton (and
please send flames his way, not mine):


"Research has demonstrated that mandatory spay/neuter laws have never
worked in any community to either increase spay/neuter rates or to decrease
shelter intake:
http://www.aspca.org/about-us/policy-positions/mandatory-spay-neuter-laws.aspx
.

Not only that, but such laws have actually increased shelter intake and
killing as pets are either surrendered or seized for failure to pay
regressive fees:
http://btoellner.typepad.com/kcdogblog/2011/01/los-angeles-msn-year-3-when-can-we-expect-it-to-start-working.html
.

It is also believed that such laws may reduce veterinary-care rates and
vaccination rates, including rabies vaccinations:
http://www.theriogenology.org/displaycommon.cfm?an=1&subarticlenbr=59

Thus, "anyone" and everyone who cares about animals should be against
mandatory spay/neuter laws.

In fact, nearly every single national animal-welfare organization IS
against mandatory spay/neuter laws, including Alley Cat Allies, Best
Friends Animal Society, the American Veterinary Medical Association,
American Humane, the Anti-Cruelty League, the No Kill Advocacy Center, and
both the American College of Theriogenologists and the Society of
Theriogenology (both specialist organizations of veterinarians who are
experts in spay/neuter), among many others."



On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 9:36 AM, Natalie  wrote:

> Exposing the killing horrors to the public is the best way to call
> attention to it; as the saying goes, if shelters had to kill animals in
> glass houses in town squares, they would stop doing it – if it’s out of
> sight, out of mind, and easily swept under the rug., it will continue!
>  People must become aware of it, mandatory spay/neuter laws must be passed,
> and legislators must stop taking money and be continually influenced by
> lobbyists who want nothing more than to stop it – breeders, many
> veterinarians, and hunting groups (YES, would you believe?) and many more
> you would never suspect, are against any spay/neuter legislation! But it’s
> the ONLY answer! 
>
> Natalie =^..^=
>
> ** **
>
> P.S.
>
> Maybe all of the rescuers in this group who have ideas, should take this
> offline….let’s put our heads together!
>
> It can be done!
>
> *From:* felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:
> felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf Of *Kat Parker
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 05, 2012 2:07 AM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* [Felvtalk] Section 1983
>
> ** **
>
> Hiya Kathryn and everyone.   The federal statute you were referring to,
> Kathryn, is Section 1983, and my step-brother, Sheldon Eisenberg, is the
> one who wrote the "Section 1983 to the rescue", on Nathan's site you found,
> and Sheldon used it in court representing Cathy Nguyen and Nathan against
> Los Angeles County Dept of Animal Care and Control, which he won a
> stipulated order from the judge in that lawsuit. (Not that it does any good
> at all, now, but ...  whatever.   lol)
>
> I did not intend to correct any person in particular, just wanted to
> mention the name of the law, which is really easy to forget, actually, but
> really wonderful to be able to use for all being a FEDERAL STATUTE, and
> there are a lot of rescuers in here.
>
> ~Kat~
>  
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Kathryn Hargreaves 
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Cc:
> Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2012 18:21:00 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Fwd: Cat shelters
> What do you mean by ``rules''?   Laws?   If they are not in compliance
> with laws, then turn them in.   (Of course, if you're a rescuer pulling
> from these pounds, then you have to protect yourself using the federal law
> Section 1982: http://www.nathanwinograd.com/?p=728
>
> As for the citizens, put ads in the papers, and maybe even send out
> informative flyers (ask for the money to do so via a Chipin).
>
> You can also try to get social media attention via the various animal
> blogs that push shelter reform, e.g., YesBiscuit!.
>
> Who holds the contract with the pound?
>
> Don't give up.   It may take years, and we're seeing progress even in TX.
>
> Probably the moderator would like us to take this offline by now. . .
>
> On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 2:50 PM, Lee Evans  wrote:*
> ***
>
> The problem here is that I'm in Texas.  Killing is the State Sport.
> Unfortunately, most of the Animal Control Officers don't even know the new
> rules, which include acceptance of TNR as a w

Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Oops, sorry for the typo.   And I'm a proofreader!

On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 10:07 PM, Kat Parker  wrote:

> Hiya Kathryn and everyone.   The federal statute you were referring to,
> Kathryn, is Section 1983, and my step-brother, Sheldon Eisenberg, is the
> one who wrote the "Section 1983 to the rescue", on Nathan's site you found,
> and Sheldon used it in court representing Cathy Nguyen and Nathan against
> Los Angeles County Dept of Animal Care and Control, which he won a
> stipulated order from the judge in that lawsuit. (Not that it does any good
> at all, now, but ...  whatever.   lol)
>
> I did not intend to correct any person in particular, just wanted to
> mention the name of the law, which is really easy to forget, actually, but
> really wonderful to be able to use for all being a FEDERAL STATUTE, and
> there are a lot of rescuers in here.
>
> ~Kat~
>
>
>> -- Forwarded message --
>> From: Kathryn Hargreaves 
>> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>> Cc:
>> Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2012 18:21:00 -0800
>> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Fwd: Cat shelters
>> What do you mean by ``rules''?   Laws?   If they are not in compliance
>> with laws, then turn them in.   (Of course, if you're a rescuer pulling
>> from these pounds, then you have to protect yourself using the federal law
>> Section 1982: http://www.nathanwinograd.com/?p=728
>>
>> As for the citizens, put ads in the papers, and maybe even send out
>> informative flyers (ask for the money to do so via a Chipin).
>>
>> You can also try to get social media attention via the various animal
>> blogs that push shelter reform, e.g., YesBiscuit!.
>>
>> Who holds the contract with the pound?
>>
>> Don't give up.   It may take years, and we're seeing progress even in TX.
>>
>> Probably the moderator would like us to take this offline by now. . .
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 2:50 PM, Lee Evans  wrote:
>>
>>> The problem here is that I'm in Texas.  Killing is the State Sport.
>>> Unfortunately, most of the Animal Control Officers don't even know the new
>>> rules, which include acceptance of TNR as a way to control outside cats.
>>> They are still terrorizing people who have a small batch of backyard cats
>>> who are spayed/neutered and have their rabies shots. They are counting
>>> these cats in the 8 cat limit when the new code states specifically that
>>> they are NOT included in the cat limit rule.  They recently reduced the
>>> number of cats/dogs allowed to 8 from 10.  This makes no sense except when
>>> you realize that they will now charge for an "excess animal permit".  Then
>>> it makes sense to reduce the legal limit so that a number of people are now
>>> over the limit and have to purchase the permit.  Nasty little tricks.
>>> People who have received a citation in the past for having over the
>>> permissible limit of cats/dogs are prohibited from purchasing the permit.
>>> More nonsense.  It would help if all the ACO's were required to read the
>>> new codes and then be tested on whether or not they understand them.  The
>>> citizens of this city don't know the rules either.  Cat haters are
>>> terrorizing cat caring neighbors, threatening them with reporting them when
>>> there's nothing to report because the cat caregivers are actually in
>>> compliance.  I think that ignorance is our worst enemy. Even when we get
>>> good ordinances, they don't work because no one knows about them.
>>>
>>>
> ___
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> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life: http://www.laanimalservices.com/volunteer_fostercare.htm

If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/<http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/>

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org
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Re: [Felvtalk] Fwd: Cat shelters

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Speciesism, too.

On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 3:22 PM, Lee Evans  wrote:

> It's so much easier to slap a label on someone then to ask them why they
> are doing what they are doing.  The problem is that they don't see that the
> life force that is in humans is also in every other living being.  To them,
> cats are rocks.  They can't see beyond their own bare hide to the spirit
> inside the furry hide of a cat, wolf, dog, cow, sheep and other animals.
> Even non furry beings have a right to live.  They can't seem to get the
> message that there's nothing crazy about caring about or for other
> individuals on this planet.  Lack of awareness is the basis for all racism,
> ageism and misogyny.  It's unfortunate that the brain is fast becoming a
> vestigial organ.  More soap from my soapbox.
>
>   --
> *From:* "dlg...@windstream.net" 
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Cc:* Lee Evans 
> *Sent:* Sunday, June 3, 2012 6:09 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Fwd: Cat shelters
>
> That sounds like Lincoln County, Mo.  Everyone thinks I am crazy for
> having 7 cats and actually taking them to the vet when they are ill.  And I
> let them come into the house!  My nickname around here is Crazy Cat Lady.
>
>
>  Lee Evans  wrote:
> > The problem here is that I'm in Texas.  Killing is the State Sport.
> Unfortunately, most of the Animal Control Officers don't even know the new
> rules, which include acceptance of TNR as a way to control outside cats.
> They are still terrorizing people who have a small batch of backyard cats
> who are spayed/neutered and have their rabies shots. They are counting
> these cats in the 8 cat limit when the new code states specifically that
> they are NOT included in the cat limit rule.  They recently reduced the
> number of cats/dogs allowed to 8 from 10.  This makes no sense except when
> you realize that they will now charge for an "excess animal permit".  Then
> it makes sense to reduce the legal limit so that a number of people are now
> over the limit and have to purchase the permit.  Nasty little tricks.
> People who have received a citation in the past for having over the
> permissible limit of cats/dogs are prohibited from purchasing the permit.
> More
> >  nonsense.
>
>
>
>
> 
> From: Kathryn Hargreaves 
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Sent: Sunday, June 3, 2012 5:28 PM
> Subject: [Felvtalk] Fwd:  Cat shelters
>
>
> I trimmed this so maybe it will go through. . .
>
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Kathryn Hargreaves 
> Date: Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 2:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Cat shelters
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>
>
> One approach you can take with the bosses (usually the city councils) of
> the pounds is to point out that the current staff is most likely
> permanently mentally damaged by participating in the old methods---much the
> way soldiers are by combat---and that they either need intensive
> (life-long?) counseling to change their attitudes, or retirement.   This I
> gleaned from HSUS' (not a big proponent of No Kill) book on compassion
> fatigue in the animal care community:
> http://www.amazon.com/Compassion-Fatigue-Animal-Care-Community-Charles/dp/0974840076
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> --
> 
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life: http://www.laanimalservices.com/volunteer_fostercare.htm

If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/<http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/>

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org
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Re: [Felvtalk] Fwd: Cat shelters

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

What do you mean by ``rules''?   Laws?   If they are not in compliance with
laws, then turn them in.   (Of course, if you're a rescuer pulling from
these pounds, then you have to protect yourself using the federal law
Section 1982: http://www.nathanwinograd.com/?p=728

As for the citizens, put ads in the papers, and maybe even send out
informative flyers (ask for the money to do so via a Chipin).

You can also try to get social media attention via the various animal blogs
that push shelter reform, e.g., YesBiscuit!.

Who holds the contract with the pound?

Don't give up.   It may take years, and we're seeing progress even in TX.

Probably the moderator would like us to take this offline by now. . .

On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 2:50 PM, Lee Evans  wrote:

> The problem here is that I'm in Texas.  Killing is the State Sport.
> Unfortunately, most of the Animal Control Officers don't even know the new
> rules, which include acceptance of TNR as a way to control outside cats.
> They are still terrorizing people who have a small batch of backyard cats
> who are spayed/neutered and have their rabies shots. They are counting
> these cats in the 8 cat limit when the new code states specifically that
> they are NOT included in the cat limit rule.  They recently reduced the
> number of cats/dogs allowed to 8 from 10.  This makes no sense except when
> you realize that they will now charge for an "excess animal permit".  Then
> it makes sense to reduce the legal limit so that a number of people are now
> over the limit and have to purchase the permit.  Nasty little tricks.
> People who have received a citation in the past for having over the
> permissible limit of cats/dogs are prohibited from purchasing the permit.
> More nonsense.  It would help if all the ACO's were required to read the
> new codes and then be tested on whether or not they understand them.  The
> citizens of this city don't know the rules either.  Cat haters are
> terrorizing cat caring neighbors, threatening them with reporting them when
> there's nothing to report because the cat caregivers are actually in
> compliance.  I think that ignorance is our worst enemy. Even when we get
> good ordinances, they don't work because no one knows about them.
>
>   --
> *From:* Kathryn Hargreaves 
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Sent:* Sunday, June 3, 2012 5:28 PM
> *Subject:* [Felvtalk] Fwd: Cat shelters
>
> I trimmed this so maybe it will go through. . .
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: *Kathryn Hargreaves* 
> Date: Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 2:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Cat shelters
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>
>
> One approach you can take with the bosses (usually the city councils) of
> the pounds is to point out that the current staff is most likely
> permanently mentally damaged by participating in the old methods---much the
> way soldiers are by combat---and that they either need intensive
> (life-long?) counseling to change their attitudes, or retirement.   This I
> gleaned from HSUS' (not a big proponent of No Kill) book on compassion
> fatigue in the animal care community:
> http://www.amazon.com/Compassion-Fatigue-Animal-Care-Community-Charles/dp/0974840076
>
>
>
>
>
>   --
>
>
> --
> 
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life: http://www.laanimalservices.com/volunteer_fostercare.htm

If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/<http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/>

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org
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Re: [Felvtalk] RenAvast for cats

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

You get it via mail from Torrance, CA.   http://www.renavast.com/order-now
It costs around 50 cents/cap and comes in 60 capsule bottles.

Are you free feeding the ferals (outside?)?   When I consulted with someone
about giving it to my colonies (because people feed them kibble and some
are getting sick as a result), they said the company recommends specific
doses.  I don't see why what with the product being amino acids, why it has
to be so specific, but maybe they have good reason.   You should consult
with the company directly if you can't regulate the dose.  Let us know what
they say.  ;-)
customerserv...@renavast.com


On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 3:31 PM, MaiMaiPG  wrote:

> Can you advise what the costs are and where it can be obtained?  I have
> some older ferals who are not touchable.  This might be of interest.
>  Thanks.
>
> On Jun 3, 2012, at 6:03 PM,  
> wrote:
>
>  Wonder if this would help my Homey - she has sturvite crystals.  Keeps
>> coming back.
>>
>>  Natalie  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, everyone;
>>>
>>> I thought this might be of interest to you.
>>>
>>> One of our older cats (17) - blood tests revealed slight renal problem,
>>> for
>>> which my vet recommended a new product RenAvast; there's a lot more info
>>> on
>>> it if you search.  http://www.renavast.com/  I contacted them and since
>>> I am
>>> a 501 (c) (3) group, they kindly they offered wholesale prices (as to a
>>> vet). Apparently, you can start using it on cats who don't have a
>>> "problem"
>>> yet.
>>>
>>> I also started using NutraMin as a supplement for all the cats.
>>>
>>> Natalie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> __**_
>> Felvtalk mailing list
>> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>> http://felineleukemia.org/**mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_**
>> felineleukemia.org
>>
>
>
> __**_
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/**mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_**felineleukemia.org
>



-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life: http://www.laanimalservices.com/volunteer_fostercare.htm

If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org
___
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Re: [Felvtalk] RenAvast for cats

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Also check out this page: http://www.holisticat.com/flutd.html

Renavast is supplements (amino acids, mostly), not a drug, so if you're
going the natural way, you may as well check out the above.   People around
here (Los Angeles) have had really good results.  One of my vets endorses
it.   The Holisticat folks, however, are concerned that the company will
not reveal the ingredients until they get a patent or whatever.   However,
I don't know of what amino acids may be harmful to cats.

Do you test Homey's urine for pH?   I've found that (raw) beef will get the
acidity within desired range, whereas chicken does not.   I had a cat with
crystals that went away after being on a good raw diet for a while.   BTW,
Vitamin C did nothing to help.


On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 3:03 PM,  wrote:

> Wonder if this would help my Homey - she has sturvite crystals.  Keeps
> coming back.
>
>  Natalie  wrote:
> > Hi, everyone;
> >
> > I thought this might be of interest to you.
> >
> > One of our older cats (17) - blood tests revealed slight renal problem,
> for
> > which my vet recommended a new product RenAvast; there's a lot more info
> on
> > it if you search.  http://www.renavast.com/  I contacted them and since
> I am
> > a 501 (c) (3) group, they kindly they offered wholesale prices (as to a
> > vet). Apparently, you can start using it on cats who don't have a
> "problem"
> > yet.
> >
> > I also started using NutraMin as a supplement for all the cats.
> >
> > Natalie
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>



-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life: http://www.laanimalservices.com/volunteer_fostercare.htm

If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org
___
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[Felvtalk] Fwd: Cat shelters

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

I trimmed this so maybe it will go through. . .

-- Forwarded message --
From: Kathryn Hargreaves 
Date: Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Cat shelters
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org


One approach you can take with the bosses (usually the city councils) of
the pounds is to point out that the current staff is most likely
permanently mentally damaged by participating in the old methods---much the
way soldiers are by combat---and that they either need intensive
(life-long?) counseling to change their attitudes, or retirement.   This I
gleaned from HSUS' (not a big proponent of No Kill) book on compassion
fatigue in the animal care community:
http://www.amazon.com/Compassion-Fatigue-Animal-Care-Community-Charles/dp/0974840076



On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 10:54 AM, Lee Evans  wrote:

> Around 12 years ago, that was the method San Antonio's Animal Control
> facility used to kill cats and dogs.  They hooked a pick-up truck to an
> opening in the wall of a small room.  They filled the room with unwanted
> cats and dogs - all together, not even separating them by species, and
> turned on the truck's engine.  They then shoveled the animals out onto
> another pick-up and off to the landfill they went.  Some were only half
> dead.  When this horror was exposed to the public, 200 people showed up in
> a protest rally and kept showing up until a regular gas chamber was
> installed.  Then we had to do it all over to get the death by lethal
> injection method approved. San Antonio is finally realizing that death is
> not the answer at all but they are still using the injection to kill.  More
> advanced thinking people are now trying to get the pound to go no-kill.
> Unfortunately, most of the officers there are left over from the ugly past
> and catch and kill still prevails. But at least the City has recognized TNR
> as a legitimate way to deal with Community Cats (formerly known as
> ferals).  Maybe someday.
>
>   --
>
>
-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life: http://www.laanimalservices.com/volunteer_fostercare.htm

If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/<http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/>

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org
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Re: [Felvtalk] RACCOON GETTING INTO CAT STATION/reply/reply

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

The raccoons near one of my colonies climb the 3-story-high palm tree
there, to live in it, so yes, they can climb.

On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 3:44 AM, dot winkler  wrote:

> Hi - That's an idea.  I'm waiting to see if the coon returns.  I just
> restarted the dry food after two weeks of not putting it out.  I'm afraid
> to trap it - it may have babies somewhere.  I'd feel bad.  I read coons
> can't jump or climb but also had some feedback that, yes they can.
> Wondering about this.  Dotty
>
>   --
> *From:* MaiMaiPG 
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 31, 2012 7:41 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] RACCOON GETTING INTO CAT STATION/reply
>
> Do they have battery operated radios that have timers?  Be aware that
> coons can destroy about anything.  If this is one coon or maybe two, can
> you trap it and relocate it?
> On May 31, 2012, at 6:32 AM, dot winkler wrote:
>
> Hi Martha - I don't live nearby.  I live in the next town over.  I drive
> over there once a day.  Wish i did.  That would be a good idea if I could
> have noise at night to deter the critters!  Thanks
>
>   --
> *From:* Martha Walton 
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 29, 2012 6:13 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] RACCOON GETTING INTO CAT STATION
>
> A radio playing at night has reduced the raccoon visits at our
> chicken-coop, maybe it would help with the cat situation?
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
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>
>
>  ___
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>
>
>
> ___
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> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
>
> ___
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> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life: http://www.laanimalservices.com/volunteer_fostercare.htm

If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org
___
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Re: [Felvtalk] What could it be?

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

There's no tests for FIP, but you can try nosodes, or calling Dr. Deva
Khalsa (purportedly a vet who can cure FIP).   Try joining WholeCatHealth
for more information.   They've been discussing the Winn Foundation FIP
studies.


On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 5:54 AM, Lynda Wilson wrote:

> **
> Oh no! I certainly hope not!! Are you going to get her tested?
>
> Sending prayers your way!
>
> Lynda
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* molvey...@hotmail.com
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org ; felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Sent:* Sunday, April 29, 2012 7:08 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] What could it be?
>
> I hate to say it but I have a feeling it's FIP.  I read a lot about it
> last night and she has a lot of the symptoms of the dry form.  I'll give a
> few more details later.  It breaks my heart.
>
> Sent from my HTC Inspire™ 4G on AT&T
>
> - Reply message -
> From: "Lorrie" 
> To: 
> Subject: [Felvtalk] What could it be?
> Date: Sat, Apr 28, 2012 5:35 pm
>
>
> I've had several FelV positive kittens who have been exactly like
> this..Less playful than others their age, and finally wobbly
> in the back legs then complete loss of the use of the back legs.
>
> Lorrie
>
>
> On 04-28, molvey...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >I  have  a  FeLV kitten that I'm fostering.  She's six or seven months
> >old.   She's the one I emailed about a couple months ago with uveitis.
> > The  uveitis  never  has completely cleared up.  But now I'm not sure
> >what's  going  on.   Her  back  legs are kind of wobbly.  It's not bad
> >enough  that  my husband has noticed yet, but I can see it.  It's like
> >she's  slightly drunk.  She's walking okay with the front legs but her
> >back  legs  give  way a little or something when she's walking.  She's
> >eating  and going to the bathroom.  She doesn't run around and play as
> >much  as  the  other cats do, but never really has.  She's just a real
> >mellow and loving kitten and I just thought that must be why she's not
> >as  playful.   I'm not sure though.  She's not growing a lot too.  The
> >other kitten her age, not related, has grown much faster than she has.
> >So  any  ideas?  Why do you guys think she's started getting wobbly in
> >the back legs.  She can still jump on things but not as sure-footed as
> >the  others.  I don't know if her muscles are getting weak or if she's
> >anemic or what.  A couple months ago her bloodwork at the vet's office
> >was  okay.   I  assume this is FeLV related but before I go to the vet
> >I'd like to be prepared and have some ideas of what's going on.
> >Maureen
>
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>  --
>
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>
>
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>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org
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Re: [Felvtalk] Testing the list again

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Got it.

On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 6:43 PM, James G Wilson wrote:

> Hey all,
>
> Let me know if you get this message. I think there are still
> some problems with the list. Haven't received any mail
> since the host said they fixed the problem. Sorry for the
> inconvenience. Best.
>
> James G. Wilson - phaed...@charter.net
> http://www.felineleukemia.org (FeLV Research & Support)
> http://www.facebook.com/crambone
> http://weather62025.com (Weather for Edwardsville, IL)
>
>
> ___
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>



-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org
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Re: [Felvtalk] NYC: pathetic maybe-FeLV needs foster/adopter

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Go for it!   ;-)

You probably need to include transport and fostering in your system.

Fostering is super important in getting animals out of the pounds.   If
anyone has any suggestions for how an iPhone app to get fosters should
function, let me know!


On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 2:57 AM, Terri Brown  wrote:

> **
>  Good question.  If there isn't maybe we should start one!
>
> =^..^= Terri, Guinevere, Travis, Dori, Kimiko and 8 furangels: Ruthie,
> Samantha,
> Arielle, Gareth, Alec, Salome, Sammi and Siggie the Tomato
> Vampire =^..^=
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* jbero tds.net 
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 10, 2012 11:24 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] NYC: pathetic maybe-FeLV needs foster/adopter
>
> Is there a national organization that networks and unifies non kill animal
> shelters in the US?  A way to help minimize this horrible type of
> situation?  It seems to me a lot of people want to help these animals but
> don't know how to.  If there was a way to unify or somehow connect all the
> non kills perhaps that would help.  Anyone know of such a thing?
>
> Jenny
>
> On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 6:26 PM, MaryChristine 
> wrote:
>
>> BY TONIGHT
>>
>> this is a website for cats in the NYC pound system, which is an
>> absolutely horrible place. anyone who isn't sick when they get there will
>> be. there's question about how much of that is the sheer number of critters
>> who pass through the doors, and how much is really bad management and use
>> of resources.
>>
>> every day around 6pm EDT, they post the cats who are marked for death the
>> next day--the shelters are open to serious adopters phone calls til 8pm;
>> they start euthing at 6am the following day.
>>
>> https://www.facebook.com/nycurgentcats
>>
>> the guy we're working on is the second one from the left--if you scroll
>> down a bit, you'll see his biography; his name is patrick.
>>
>> the problem with these cats is that no rescue will pull them without
>> having a definite, approved foster/adopter
>>
>> the website has more info than i do.
>>
>> MC
>> --
>> Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors!
>> Maybe That'll Make The Difference
>>
>> MaryChristine
>> Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (
>> www.purebredcats.org)
>> Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team)
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
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>
>
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>
>


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Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
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Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org
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Re: [Felvtalk] NYC: pathetic maybe-FeLV needs foster/adopter

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

If you search for No Kill in Facebook, you'll get a lot of organizations,
both (inter)national, by state, and by town.   In particular, look at:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/No-Kill-Coalition-Crossposting/220666988020410

You can also search for Crossposter and get a lot of other pages for
crossposting.

Here is a list of true No Kill shelters:
http://s312584456.initial-website.com/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ which
is growing exponentially these days, now that people know it can be done
(see my signature links below).  Of interest also is:
http://www.nokillnetwork.org/

Note that Empty Cages (search for in FB) pulls a lot of NYC
animals.   They could probably use donations!   The way the NYC pound
functions is just the tip of the iceberg.   You can read more about the
politics there on Nathan Winograd's blog and those of others.

It would be great if there were a database where people could put in
requests for certain types of animals and they could be matched up with
ones in various pounds.   As far as I know, all we have have right now is
Petfinder.com and its ilk.

However, don't wait for an organization to do the work.   Start networking
animals to your friends now.


Hope this helps.


On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 7:24 PM, jbero tds.net  wrote:

> Is there a national organization that networks and unifies non kill animal
> shelters in the US?  A way to help minimize this horrible type of
> situation?  It seems to me a lot of people want to help these animals but
> don't know how to.  If there was a way to unify or somehow connect all the
> non kills perhaps that would help.  Anyone know of such a thing?
>
> Jenny
>
> On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 6:26 PM, MaryChristine 
> wrote:
>
>> BY TONIGHT
>>
>> this is a website for cats in the NYC pound system, which is an
>> absolutely horrible place. anyone who isn't sick when they get there will
>> be. there's question about how much of that is the sheer number of critters
>> who pass through the doors, and how much is really bad management and use
>> of resources.
>>
>> every day around 6pm EDT, they post the cats who are marked for death the
>> next day--the shelters are open to serious adopters phone calls til 8pm;
>> they start euthing at 6am the following day.
>>
>> https://www.facebook.com/nycurgentcats
>>
>> the guy we're working on is the second one from the left--if you scroll
>> down a bit, you'll see his biography; his name is patrick.
>>
>> the problem with these cats is that no rescue will pull them without
>> having a definite, approved foster/adopter
>>
>> the website has more info than i do.
>>
>> MC
>> --
>> Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors!
>> Maybe That'll Make The Difference
>>
>> MaryChristine
>> Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (
>> www.purebredcats.org)
>> Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team)
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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>>
>>
>
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>
>


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Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
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Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org
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Re: [Felvtalk] Stomatitis/Bartonaella link and treatment

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

The Chinese Medicine theory my holistic vet had was that if abx helped
(which they seemed to with my cats, and apparently with others'), then that
was cooling the fire coming from the stomach.   So, that's why the Coptis
Purge Fire helped, after initially getting the heat coming from the stomach
down to a level that the herbs could handle.   Note that with my cats,
things did not clear completely until several months after the initial abx
followed by being on the Coptis Purge Fire.


On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 7:51 AM, Lee Evans  wrote:

> I have had a couple of cats who were suspected of having Bartonella but
> the vet gave them doxycycline. It seemed to have cleared up the
> Bartonella.  I currently have one cat with stomatitis, not an FIV cat and
> another negative cat who seems to be getting stomatitis.  Romeo, who has
> it,  is on a steroid shot whenever I see that it's getting too serious.  He
> also got the long acting antibiotic convenia.  It really seemed to help
> him.  I wish some researcher who cares about cats did serious studies of
> what is causing stomatitis.  It is so painful for the cats and expensive to
> keep under control.
>
>   --
> *From:* Kat Parker 
> *To:* Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Sent:* Friday, April 6, 2012 3:06 AM
>
> *Subject:* [Felvtalk] Stomatitis/Bartonaella link and treatment
>
> *This was sent to me in email from a rescuer I know and work with. I have
> an FIV cat I rescued from a drainpipe who now lives with another friend of
> mine, John, and is very sick with stomatitis.   Don't know if this will
> help anyone, but it's good to pass along since FIV+ and FeLV+ cats have
> problems with stomatitis:
>
> *Last year one of our vets found literature tying Stomatitis to
> Bartonella.  In fact, on the results for Bartonella now there is a
> sentence saying that they have now found a connection between
> Bartonella and Stomatitis in cats.  A lot of cats carry Bartonella
> (also tied into heart issues which a lot of people do not realize)!
> So I highly recommend checking for Bartonella before removing his/her
> teeth.  The treatment is just a round of Azithromycin.  Since
> discovering this connection we have had several cats with stomatitis
> test positive for Bartonella and all cleared after a round of Zithro.
> I found a few links and pasted below.
> Julia
>
> http://www.virginiaveterinarydentistry.com/647115.html
>
>
>
> "An association has been established between Feline Stomatitis and a
> specific bacterial organism called Bartonella. In a large study 70% of
> cats with severe gingivitis/ stomatitis syndrome tested positive for
> this organism. Antibiotics in routine veterinary use have no effect on
> Bartonella organisms but there is an antibiotic called azithromycin
> that is effective. We are now recommending that all cats with symptoms
> of stomatitis or severe gingivitis should be tested and those that are
> strongly positive be treated. In the same large study, more than 70%
> responded favorably to treatment. Bartonella is unlikely to be a
> causative organism but one that contributes to the problem. Some cats
> do not test positive and some that are positive do not improve, but
> the link to Bartonella is promising and most cats that we have treated
> have improved substantially."
>
> *
>
> Love and Katnip,
>   ~Kat~ =^,,^=
> *
>
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>
>
>
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>
>


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Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org
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Re: [Felvtalk] Bio-Sponge

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Natalie and Beth,


Did either of you try my holistic stomatitis protocol?   It worked on both
my cats, and the dental tech called it a miracle.

Also, digestive enzymes and unspiced cooked pumpkin is what cured my
long-term diarrhea kits.

Hope this helps.


On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Natalie  wrote:

> I have never heard of it…it seems to be for intestinal problems. So
> stomatitis is suspected to start in the intestine…could make sense. What’s
> the dosage?  Hey, I’m willing to try anything for our FIV+ cat with
> stomatitis – he gets an injection of steroids every 3 months and
> in-between, gets some holistic drops – it maintains him.
>
> I was going to order some Seacure for the cats that have chronic diarrhea
> and as a supplement for all of them.
>
> Natalie
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:
> felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf Of *Beth
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 05, 2012 6:31 PM
> *To:* FeLV Talk
> *Subject:* [Felvtalk] Bio-Sponge
>
> ** **
>
> Has anyone used Bio-Sponge? I know an older cat with bad Stomatitis who is
> on it & seems so really be helping.
>
> It's supposed to help absorb toxins & viruses.
>
> ** **
>
> Beth
>
>  Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter![image: Image removed by sender.]
>  www.Furkids.org 
>
>  
>
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>


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Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org


stomatitis-protocol.rtf
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Re: [Felvtalk] Felvtalk Digest, Vol 8, Issue 28

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Not quite the same format as Yahoo, but there are archives:
http://felineleukemia.org/pipermail/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org/


On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 10:10 PM, Pamela Bell wrote:

>
>
> Kitty with Jaundice
>
>
> The vet said there was no hope for my Domino years ago.  He was jaundiced
> and eyes were completely yellow.  Sharyl and others sent me to the Feline
> Assisted Feeding group.   Domino tests positive for FIV but is not
> FelV.   I bought the large feeding syringes and fed him all day and gave
> fluids.  I thinned Wellness kitten food with water to fill the syringe.
> He recovered completely in a short time.
>
> I don't understand how to read this group's emails or post.  I try to go
> where the posts are and can't  find the archives where they are listed
> individually.   I get the digest which means receiving the same portions of
> previous emails over and over.   Is there a place where I can read them as
> you would on a yahoo group? Is there some place with instructions?   I am
> guessing there was when I joined but I can't find it now.
>
> BestPam
>
>
> Pam Bell
> RescueTheCats.com
> Bayonne, NJ
>
> (201)376-4474
> rescuethec...@yahoo.com
>
>   --
>
>
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>


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Re: [Felvtalk] Black salve

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Thanks for clarifying that there are different forms out there.


On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 1:37 PM, GRAS  wrote:

> I beg to differ; I have seen the results of this original formula. This is
> NOT the black salve that you read about; it's nothing like it.  It's also
> not a lot of money ($30) and lasts forever, nobody is getting rich on it,
> and for people who cannot afford it, it's FREE!, and really helps people
> and
> animals. Unfortunately, vets have been using a "form" of it, and it's very
> painful (this one is NOT, Pat added lidocaine to it). I have used the tonic
> on a cat, and am using it myself prophylactically. Please do not be fooled
> by the fakes that are advertised.  Many people have been using it (it's
> meant for people), and have proven to their vets that it works. But, again,
> to each his own.  I'm not trying to sell anyone on it, only offer to help
> because I know that it does. Unfortunately, there are many "miracles" out
> there, but because of quacks, many are discounted. BTW, this is not info
> about the salve from the group that I joined! There are pictures posted of
> cancer in a horse's eyelid, progress, and it only attacks cancerous cells.
> Didn't even hurt the eye.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
> [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie
> Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 4:32 PM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Black salve
>
> I have my doubts about this black salve too. If it is that much of a
> miracle
> salve vets would surely be using it. I fear this is just another quack
> making money on desperate people who want to save their pets.  Human cancer
> victims fall for these things all the time, and it is unbelievably cruel to
> take money from people and give them false hope.
>
> Lorrie  (aka older and wiser)
>
> On 02-19, Ruth Parsons wrote:
> >Hi
> >
> >I  appreciate  all  the  info  on FELV this group provides. I research
> >treatments  suggested  and  look  for a variety of reliable sources to
> >help me care for our cat, who is presently thriving despite 2 positive
> >tests.  The  recent  postings  regarding "black salve" and Deva Khalsa
> >gave  me some concern. The links below, and others, raise issues about
> >this product and the products promoted by this person. Just FYI.
> >1. [1]http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/eschar
> .
> >html
> >
> >2.
> >[2]
> http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2010/07/double-helix-water-more-magic-wate
> >r-quackery/
> >
> > References
> >
> >1.
> http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/eschar.html
> >2.
> > http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2010/07/double-helix-water-more-magic-water-q
> > uackery/
>
>
>
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Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
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Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org
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Re: [Felvtalk] Felvtalk Digest, Vol 7, Issue 29

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

While I did not have as good of an experience of Dr. Khalsa as have others,
note that these blogs could be biased, too.   Even allopathic doctors can
be criticized by such, sometimes for purely for political/economic
reasons.   Often, you have to follow the money.

I know of an animal who had multiple tumors (including brain ones) who was
helped by alternative medicine (specifically, U-Fn and some other
unverified things), but their caretaker was also using allopathic
approaches.  It may or may not have been the alternative treatments.

IMHO, both approaches have their valid treaments, and a true complementary
mixing of them is best.   I have lost animals due to listening to vets who
were strictly holistic, and would never do that again.

On the other hand, it seems that using the immune system to help overcome
diseases is a solid approach, since that's how spontaneous remission seems
to work.   There are allopathic researchers that are now suggesting this,
and who are working on or have seemingly figured out how to induce this
natural response---in a higher percentage of cases than with conventional
cancer treatments (the latter which are reported in peer-reviewed journals,
so you can look them up; the former you have to read the hospitals'
reports).

That said, I doubt I would use black salve, having seen some pictures of
what it did to sensitive individuals.   Since holistic folks do not report
outcomes the way the allopaths do, it would be hard to figure out what its
success rate is.

Dr. Khalsa reported that she got rid of her cat's tumor using rice-based
(not-mushroom-based) PSP, but I was not able to get it into my cat no
matter what, so I can't verify any personal results.  I did notice a change
in quality of my cat's mammary tumor when I used DH water on her, but it
did not change the size nor stop its growth.   The oncologist was surprised
she'd lasted as long as she did without allopathic intervention, and
perhaps this was due to the supplements I was giving her.   However, I now
believe she would have had a better chance if I had removed the tumor right
away, as that cancer is so aggressive in cats.  I may also have tried to
reduce it via Dr. Khalsa's approach of getting the immune system up for
reducing the tumor, but that would be a bit risky, given the statistical
outcomes based on the size of tumor when it's removed.   As with Steve
Jobs, sometimes it might be best to go the allopathic route---especially if
they've figured something out.

I believe that Richard Feynman was prudent when he said true scientists
should stay open to whatever their data is telling them.


On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 10:34 AM, Ruth Parsons wrote:

> Hi
> I appreciate all the info on FELV this group provides. I research
> treatments suggested and look for a variety of reliable sources to help me
> care for our cat, who is presently thriving despite 2 positive tests. The
> recent postings regarding "black salve" and Deva Khalsa gave me some
> concern. The links below, and others, raise issues about this product and
> the products promoted by this person. Just FYI.
>
> 1. http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/eschar.html
>
>
> 2.
> http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2010/07/double-helix-water-more-magic-water-quackery/
>
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>


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Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
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Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org
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