Re: What is more primary than numbers?

> On 21 Dec 2018, at 05:44, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 8:28 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 1:07 PM Jason Resch > wrote: > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 7:11 PM Bruce Kellett

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

> On 21 Dec 2018, at 03:22, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 1:03 PM Jason Resch > wrote: > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 7:05 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 11:45 AM Jason Resch

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On 12/21/2018 5:43 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 12:46 PM Brent Meeker > wrote: On 12/20/2018 9:09 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > I am not advocating any global reference frame, just mentioning that > for a particular observe, they c

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 2:03:06 AM UTC, Jason wrote: > > > > On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 8:50 PM > wrote: > >> >> >> On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 1:42:06 AM UTC, Jason wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 11:40 AM John Clark wrote: >>> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 7:30 PM Ja

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 8:50 PM wrote: > > > On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 1:42:06 AM UTC, Jason wrote: >> >> >> >> On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 11:40 AM John Clark wrote: >> >>> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 7:30 PM Jason Resch wrote: >>> >>> The Schrodinger equation describes the quantum wave f

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 1:01 PM Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 12/20/2018 9:16 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 11:08 PM Brent Meeker > wrote: > >> >> >> On 12/20/2018 8:54 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 10:30 PM Brent Meeker >> wrote: >> >>> >>>

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 1:42:06 AM UTC, Jason wrote: > > > > On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 11:40 AM John Clark > wrote: > >> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 7:30 PM Jason Resch > > wrote: >> >> The Schrodinger equation describes the quantum wave function using >> complex numbers, and that

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 12:46 PM Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 12/20/2018 9:09 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > I am not advocating any global reference frame, just mentioning that > > for a particular observe, they can define a present that works for > > them (in their own reference frame). From their

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 10:53:25 PM UTC, Brent wrote: > > > > On 12/21/2018 12:31 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 5:46:10 PM UTC, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 12/20/2018 9:09 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> > I am not advocating any global reference fram

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 11:40 AM John Clark wrote: > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 7:30 PM Jason Resch wrote: > > The Schrodinger equation describes the quantum wave function using > complex numbers, and that is not observable so it's subjective in the same > way that lines of latitude an

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On 12/21/2018 12:31 PM, agrayson2...@gmail.com wrote: On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 5:46:10 PM UTC, Brent wrote: On 12/20/2018 9:09 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > I am not advocating any global reference frame, just mentioning that > for a particular observe, they can define a

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 1:05:54 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: > > On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 11:45 AM Jason Resch > wrote: > > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 3:26 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > > On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 2:35 AM Jason Resch > wrote: > > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 5:01 AM Bruce Kellett > wrote:

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 5:46:10 PM UTC, Brent wrote: > > > > On 12/20/2018 9:09 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > I am not advocating any global reference frame, just mentioning that > > for a particular observe, they can define a present that works for > > them (in their own reference frame)

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

> On 21 Dec 2018, at 03:03, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 7:05 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 11:45 AM Jason Resch > wrote: > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 3:26 PM Bruce Kellett

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 10:13 AM Jason Resch wrote: > > > On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 8:56 AM Terren Suydam > wrote: > >> >> How do you square the multiverse concept with what Bruno has asserted in >> the past - that the physics experienced by universal numbers is the same >> for all of them? >> >>

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:12:18 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 21 Dec 2018, at 01:07, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Thursday, December 20, 2018 at 3:40:53 PM UTC-6, Bruce wrote: >> >> On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 3:13 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> Is not 333’s oddness time

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On 12/20/2018 9:16 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 11:08 PM Brent Meeker > wrote: On 12/20/2018 8:54 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 10:30 PM Brent Meeker mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: On 12/20/201

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On 12/20/2018 9:09 PM, Jason Resch wrote: I am not advocating any global reference frame, just mentioning that for a particular observe, they can define a present that works for them (in their own reference frame). From their point of view they can consider themselves at rest (whether they a

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

> On 21 Dec 2018, at 01:07, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Thursday, December 20, 2018 at 3:40:53 PM UTC-6, Bruce wrote: > On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 3:13 AM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > > Is not 333’s oddness timeless? > > Category error. > > > > On category error: > > I've never understood

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 7:30 PM Jason Resch wrote: The Schrodinger equation describes the quantum wave function using complex numbers, and that is not observable so it's subjective in the same way that lines of latitude and longitude are. However the square of the absolute val

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 8:56 AM Terren Suydam wrote: > > > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 11:35 PM Jason Resch wrote: > >> We have no evidence nor reason to presume that we should be in a position >> to see everything that exists. In fact, we already know that not to be the >> case. We know we can't s

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 11:35 PM Jason Resch wrote: > We have no evidence nor reason to presume that we should be in a position > to see everything that exists. In fact, we already know that not to be the > case. We know we can't see what lays beyond the cosmological horizon, for > example. > >

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:32:52 AM UTC+1, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 20 Dec 2018, at 22:40, Bruce Kellett > > wrote: > > On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 3:13 AM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > > On 19 Dec 2018, at 23:36, Bruce Kellett > > wrote: > > > > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 9:33 AM Jason Res

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

(Combing text from your two e-mails, hope you don't mind) On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 12:38 AM Bruce Kellett wrote: > On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 4:59 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 3:44 PM Jason Resch wrote: >> >>> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 8:28 PM Bruce Kellett >>> wrote: >>>

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

> On 20 Dec 2018, at 22:40, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 3:13 AM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > On 19 Dec 2018, at 23:36, Bruce Kellett > wrote: > > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 9:33 AM Jason Resch

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

> On 20 Dec 2018, at 22:35, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 2:46 AM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > On 19 Dec 2018, at 23:33, Bruce Kellett > wrote: >> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 4:21 AM Bruno Marchal > >

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

> On 20 Dec 2018, at 20:37, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 12/20/2018 2:09 AM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> How is it imaginary if they later confirm it? i.e., they wait 1 year, and >> compare their readings from telescopes of things 1 ly away from them, and >> when they compare notes each on

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

> On 20 Dec 2018, at 19:28, John Clark wrote: > > > > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 10:42 AM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > > >> Without using matter/energy or the laws of physics how can you associate > >> anything with anything? > > > The function 1/2 (m+n)(m+n+1) + m asso

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Thursday, December 20, 2018 at 6:31:49 PM UTC-6, Bruce wrote: > > On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 11:07 AM Philip Thrift > wrote: > >> On Thursday, December 20, 2018 at 3:40:53 PM UTC-6, Bruce wrote: >>> >>> On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 3:13 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> >>> >>> Is not 333’s oddness timele

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

> On 20 Dec 2018, at 12:05, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 8:21 PM Jason Resch > wrote: > On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 5:19 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > > If you include all events as as present moments, and say that they

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

> On 20 Dec 2018, at 01:14, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 12/19/2018 9:06 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> Diophantine equation, which are provably equivalent with the two combinator >> law above. That is far longer to prove, of course, and this results comes >> from the 50 years of hard work by

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

> On 20 Dec 2018, at 01:04, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 12/19/2018 7:27 AM, Jason Resch wrote: >> The output of a computation is not the computation, and we make use of >> non-halting programs all the time. For example, Operating Systems, Web >> Servers, Virtual Machines, etc. Ideally,

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 4:59 PM Bruce Kellett wrote: > On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 3:44 PM Jason Resch wrote: > >> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 8:28 PM Bruce Kellett >> wrote: >> >>> >>> I have no evidence that they exist now, since all I am currently aware >>> of is the record of their past existence a

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 3:44 PM Jason Resch wrote: > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 8:28 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> >> I have no evidence that they exist now, since all I am currently aware of >> is the record of their past existence as it is present to me now. The >> evidence is that they existed

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 11:08 PM Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 12/20/2018 8:54 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 10:30 PM Brent Meeker > wrote: > >> >> >> On 12/20/2018 4:38 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 1:27 PM Brent Meeker >> wrote: >> >>> >>>

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 10:52 PM Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 12/20/2018 8:45 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 10:10 PM Brent Meeker > wrote: > >> >> >> On 12/20/2018 4:30 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 1:16 PM Brent Meeker >> wrote: >> >>> >>>

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 10:27 PM Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 12/20/2018 4:37 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 1:25 PM Brent Meeker wrote: > >> >> >> On 12/20/2018 1:38 AM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 5:51 PM Brent Meeker >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>>

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On 12/20/2018 8:54 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 10:30 PM Brent Meeker > wrote: On 12/20/2018 4:38 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 1:27 PM Brent Meeker mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: On 12/20/2018

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 10:30 PM Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 12/20/2018 4:38 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 1:27 PM Brent Meeker wrote: > >> >> >> On 12/20/2018 1:49 AM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 8:05 PM John Clark wrote: >> >>> On Wed, Dec

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On 12/20/2018 8:45 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 10:10 PM Brent Meeker > wrote: On 12/20/2018 4:30 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 1:16 PM Brent Meeker mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: On 12/20/2018

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 10:10 PM Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 12/20/2018 4:30 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 1:16 PM Brent Meeker wrote: > >> >> >> On 12/20/2018 1:11 AM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 5:39 PM Bruce Kellett >> wrote: >> >>> On Thu

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 8:28 PM Bruce Kellett wrote: > On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 1:07 PM Jason Resch wrote: > >> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 7:11 PM Bruce Kellett >> wrote: >> >>> On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 11:49 AM Jason Resch >>> wrote: >>> Do you believe other locations in space exist? >>>

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 8:22 PM Bruce Kellett wrote: > On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 1:03 PM Jason Resch wrote: > >> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 7:05 PM Bruce Kellett >> wrote: >> >>> On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 11:45 AM Jason Resch >>> wrote: >>> 1. It is a prediction of eternal inflation and string t

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On 12/20/2018 4:38 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 1:27 PM Brent Meeker > wrote: On 12/20/2018 1:49 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 8:05 PM John Clark mailto:johnkcl...@gmail.com>> wrote: On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 a

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On 12/20/2018 4:37 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 1:25 PM Brent Meeker > wrote: On 12/20/2018 1:38 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 5:51 PM Brent Meeker mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: On 12/19/2018

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On 12/20/2018 4:30 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 1:16 PM Brent Meeker > wrote: On 12/20/2018 1:11 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 5:39 PM Bruce Kellett mailto:bhkellet...@gmail.com>> wrote: On Thu, Dec 20

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 1:07 PM Jason Resch wrote: > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 7:11 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 11:49 AM Jason Resch >> wrote: >> >>> >>> Do you believe other locations in space exist? >>> >> >> They exist, but there is no sense in which they are simulta

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 1:03 PM Jason Resch wrote: > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 7:05 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 11:45 AM Jason Resch >> wrote: >> >>> 1. It is a prediction of eternal inflation and string theory. >>> >> >> String theory and its "landscape" are very specu

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 7:11 PM Bruce Kellett wrote: > On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 11:49 AM Jason Resch wrote: > >> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 3:30 PM Bruce Kellett >> wrote: >> >>> On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 2:38 AM Jason Resch >>> wrote: >>> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 5:05 AM Bruce Kellett wro

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 7:05 PM Bruce Kellett wrote: > On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 11:45 AM Jason Resch wrote: > >> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 3:26 PM Bruce Kellett >> wrote: >> >>> On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 2:35 AM Jason Resch >>> wrote: >>> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 5:01 AM Bruce Kellett wro

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 11:49 AM Jason Resch wrote: > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 3:30 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 2:38 AM Jason Resch wrote: >> >>> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 5:05 AM Bruce Kellett >>> wrote: >>> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 8:21 PM Jason Resch wrote:

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 11:45 AM Jason Resch wrote: > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 3:26 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 2:35 AM Jason Resch wrote: >> >>> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 5:01 AM Bruce Kellett >>> wrote: >>> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 8:18 PM Jason Resch wrote:

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 3:30 PM Bruce Kellett wrote: > On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 2:38 AM Jason Resch wrote: > >> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 5:05 AM Bruce Kellett >> wrote: >> >>> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 8:21 PM Jason Resch >>> wrote: >>> On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 5:19 PM Bruce Kellett wrot

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 3:26 PM Bruce Kellett wrote: > On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 2:35 AM Jason Resch wrote: > >> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 5:01 AM Bruce Kellett >> wrote: >> >>> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 8:18 PM Jason Resch >>> wrote: >>> On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 4:34 PM Bruce Kellett wrot

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 1:37 PM Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 12/20/2018 2:09 AM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > How is it imaginary if they later confirm it? i.e., they wait 1 year, > > and compare their readings from telescopes of things 1 ly away from > > them, and when they compare notes each one

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 1:27 PM Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 12/20/2018 1:49 AM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 8:05 PM John Clark wrote: > >> On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 6:16 PM Jason Resch wrote: >> >> *> The Shrodinger equation is deterministic.* >> >> >> Yes. >> >> > *Quant

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 1:25 PM Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 12/20/2018 1:38 AM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 5:51 PM Brent Meeker wrote: > >> >> >> On 12/19/2018 4:31 AM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 6:00 AM Bruce Kellett >> wrote: >> >>> On Wed,

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 11:07 AM Philip Thrift wrote: > On Thursday, December 20, 2018 at 3:40:53 PM UTC-6, Bruce wrote: >> >> On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 3:13 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> Is not 333’s oddness timeless? >> >> >> Category error. >> >> > > On category error: > > I've never underst

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 1:16 PM Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 12/20/2018 1:11 AM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 5:39 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 9:47 AM Brent Meeker >> wrote: >> >>> On 12/18/2018 6:34 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >>> >>> That wasn't my

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 12:11 PM John Clark wrote: > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 4:50 AM Jason Resch wrote: > > >> The Schrodinger equation describes the quantum wave function using >>> complex numbers, and that is not observable so it's subjective in the same >>> way that lines of latitude and long

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Thursday, December 20, 2018 at 3:40:53 PM UTC-6, Bruce wrote: > > On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 3:13 AM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > > > Is not 333’s oddness timeless? > > > Category error. > > > > On category error: I've never understood "category error" [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_mi

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 8:40 AM Bruce Kellett wrote: > On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 3:13 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 19 Dec 2018, at 23:36, Bruce Kellett wrote: >> > > >> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 9:33 AM Jason Resch wrote: >> >> On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 4:18 PM Bruce Kellett >>> wrote: >>>

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 3:13 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: > On 19 Dec 2018, at 23:36, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 9:33 AM Jason Resch wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 4:18 PM Bruce Kellett >> wrote: >> >>> From: Jason Resch >>> >>> On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 6:00 AM Bruce Kel

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 2:46 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: > On 19 Dec 2018, at 23:33, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 4:21 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 19 Dec 2018, at 12:59, Bruce Kellett wrote: >> >> Dynamics is the study of matter in motion. There are no clocks in >> arithmet

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 2:38 AM Jason Resch wrote: > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 5:05 AM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 8:21 PM Jason Resch wrote: >> >>> On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 5:19 PM Bruce Kellett >>> wrote: >>> > If you include all events as as present moments, an

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 2:35 AM Jason Resch wrote: > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 5:01 AM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 8:18 PM Jason Resch wrote: >> >>> On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 4:34 PM Bruce Kellett >>> wrote: >>> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 4:21 AM Bruno Marchal wrote

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On 12/20/2018 2:09 AM, Jason Resch wrote: How is it imaginary if they later confirm it?  i.e., they wait 1 year, and compare their readings from telescopes of things 1 ly away from them, and when they compare notes each one confirms that indeed their presents contained a different set of o

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On 12/20/2018 1:49 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 8:05 PM John Clark > wrote: On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 6:16 PM Jason Resch mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>> wrote: /> The Shrodinger equation is deterministic./ Yes. > /Quant

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On 12/20/2018 1:38 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 5:51 PM Brent Meeker > wrote: On 12/19/2018 4:31 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 6:00 AM Bruce Kellett mailto:bhkellet...@gmail.com>> wrote: On Wed, Dec 19

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On 12/20/2018 1:11 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 5:39 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 9:47 AM Brent Meeker mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: On 12/18/2018 6:34 PM, Jason Resch wrote: That wasn't my que

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Thursday, December 20, 2018 at 4:59:15 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 20 Dec 2018, at 00:50, Brent Meeker > > wrote: > > > > On 12/19/2018 4:31 AM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 6:00 AM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 10:40 PM Jason Resch > wro

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 10:42 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: >> Without using matter/energy or the laws of physics how can you associate >> anything with anything? > > > > *The function 1/2 (m+n)(m+n+1) + m associates* [...] > Associates? But that was my question! Without using matter/energy or the law

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 4:50 AM Jason Resch wrote: >> The Schrodinger equation describes the quantum wave function using >> complex numbers, and that is not observable so it's subjective in the same >> way that lines of latitude and longitude are. However the square of the >> absolute value of th

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

> On 20 Dec 2018, at 00:50, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 12/19/2018 4:31 AM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 6:00 AM Bruce Kellett > > wrote: >> On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 10:40 PM Jason Resch > > wrote: >> On Tue,

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

> On 19 Dec 2018, at 23:36, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 9:33 AM Jason Resch > wrote: > On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 4:18 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > From: Jason Resch mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>> >> On Wed, Dec 19,

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Thursday, December 20, 2018 at 12:46:06 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 19 Dec 2018, at 16:52, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 12:01:07 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 18 Dec 2018, at 07:57, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 5:

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

> On 19 Dec 2018, at 23:33, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 4:21 AM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > On 19 Dec 2018, at 12:59, Bruce Kellett > wrote: >> Dynamics is the study of matter in motion. There are no clocks in arithmetic

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

> On 19 Dec 2018, at 18:35, John Clark wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 12:21 PM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > > > To each phi_i you can associate phi_i, s, which on input j will [...] > > Without using matter/energy or the laws of physics how can you associate > anyth

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 5:05 AM Bruce Kellett wrote: > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 8:21 PM Jason Resch wrote: > >> On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 5:19 PM Bruce Kellett >> wrote: >> >>> If you include all events as as present moments, and say that they all exist, then how is this different from t

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 5:01 AM Bruce Kellett wrote: > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 8:18 PM Jason Resch wrote: > >> On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 4:34 PM Bruce Kellett >> wrote: >> >>> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 4:21 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> On 19 Dec 2018, at 12:59, Bruce Kellett wrote:

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

> On 20 Dec 2018, at 01:24, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 12/19/2018 9:36 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> On 18 Dec 2018, at 22:36, Brent Meeker >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 12/18/2018 5:05 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > On 17 Dec 2018, at 21:43, Brent Meeker

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

> On 19 Dec 2018, at 16:52, agrayson2...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 12:01:07 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 18 Dec 2018, at 07:57, Bruce Kellett > >> wrote: >> >> On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 5:42 PM > wrote: >> On Tuesday, December 18, 2018 at 5:31:06 AM UT

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 8:44 PM Jason Resch wrote: > On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 6:25 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 10:57 AM Jason Resch >> wrote: >> >>> On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 5:19 PM Bruce Kellett >>> wrote: >>> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 10:09 AM Jason Resch wr

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 8:21 PM Jason Resch wrote: > On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 5:19 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> >>> If you include all events as as present moments, and say that they all >>> exist, then how is this different from the block-time view (which says only >>> that all points in time

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 8:18 PM Jason Resch wrote: > On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 4:34 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 4:21 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 19 Dec 2018, at 12:59, Bruce Kellett wrote: >>> >>> Dynamics is the study of matter in motion. There are no clocks in

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 8:12 PM Jason Resch wrote: > On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 5:39 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 9:47 AM Brent Meeker >> wrote: >> >>> On 12/18/2018 6:34 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >>> >>> That wasn't my question. Do you believe your experience rules out the

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 11:42 PM Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 12/19/2018 3:16 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 4:47 PM Brent Meeker wrote: > >> >> >> On 12/18/2018 6:34 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 7:27 PM Bruce Kellett >> wrote: >> >>> On Wed

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 8:05 PM John Clark wrote: > On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 6:16 PM Jason Resch wrote: > > *> The Shrodinger equation is deterministic.* > > > Yes. > > > *Quantum Randomness, like a moving present, is a subjective >> phenomenon.* > > > The Schrodinger equation describes the quan

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 6:25 PM Bruce Kellett wrote: > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 10:57 AM Jason Resch wrote: > >> On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 5:19 PM Bruce Kellett >> wrote: >> >>> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 10:09 AM Jason Resch >>> wrote: >>> If you include all events as as present moments,

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 5:51 PM Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 12/19/2018 4:31 AM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 6:00 AM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 10:40 PM Jason Resch >> wrote: >> >>> On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 11:14 PM Bruce Kellett < >>> bhkell...@op

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 5:19 PM Bruce Kellett wrote: > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 10:09 AM Jason Resch wrote: > >> On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 4:53 PM Bruce Kellett >> wrote: >> >>> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 9:38 AM Jason Resch >>> wrote: >>> On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 4:36 PM Bruce Kellett wro

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 4:34 PM Bruce Kellett wrote: > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 4:21 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 19 Dec 2018, at 12:59, Bruce Kellett wrote: >> >> Dynamics is the study of matter in motion. There are no clocks in >> arithmetic. >> >> Of course there is clock. The successor fu

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 5:39 PM Bruce Kellett wrote: > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 9:47 AM Brent Meeker wrote: > >> On 12/18/2018 6:34 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> That wasn't my question. Do you believe your experience rules out the >> block universe? >> >> If you mean a pre-determined universe, I

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On 12/19/2018 3:16 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 4:47 PM Brent Meeker > wrote: On 12/18/2018 6:34 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 7:27 PM Bruce Kellett mailto:bhkellet...@gmail.com>> wrote: On Wed, Dec 19

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 6:16 PM Jason Resch wrote: *> The Shrodinger equation is deterministic.* Yes. > *Quantum Randomness, like a moving present, is a subjective phenomenon.* The Schrodinger equation describes the quantum wave function using complex numbers, and that is not observable so

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 10:57 AM Jason Resch wrote: > On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 5:19 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 10:09 AM Jason Resch >> wrote: >> >>> >>> If you include all events as as present moments, and say that they all >>> exist, then how is this different from t

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On 12/19/2018 9:36 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 18 Dec 2018, at 22:36, Brent Meeker wrote: On 12/18/2018 5:05 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 17 Dec 2018, at 21:43, Brent Meeker wrote: On 12/17/2018 2:55 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Sure. Any argument showing that the primary universe exist wo

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On 12/19/2018 9:06 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Diophantine equation, which are provably equivalent with the two combinator law above. That is far longer to prove, of course, and this results comes from the 50 years of hard work by Putnam, Davis, Robinson (Juila), and Matiyasevic. The polynomial

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On 12/19/2018 7:27 AM, Jason Resch wrote: The output of a computation is not the computation, and we make use of non-halting programs all the time.  For example, Operating Systems, Web Servers, Virtual Machines, etc.  Ideally, these programs never halt, and usually they never output anything

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 5:19 PM Bruce Kellett wrote: > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 10:09 AM Jason Resch wrote: > >> On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 4:53 PM Bruce Kellett >> wrote: >> >>> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 9:38 AM Jason Resch >>> wrote: >>> On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 4:36 PM Bruce Kellett wro

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