Richard Baker wrote:
In your opinion, are the European media more
biased than the US media? In my opinion, the
British media, at least, are considerably more
balanced than those US news channels I see (CNN,
Fox). I can't speak for newspapers though - I
just read the (London) Sunday
After the Dryfus affair, Zionism got its start.
Modern Zionism started in Eastern Europe--specifically Russia in the late
19th C, where anti-semitism was most virulent--according to my source. The
roots of Zionism actually predate the affair by at least a decade. See _A
History of the Modern
--- Jan Coffey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
snipped all but phrases of interest
Uh...phwit lamunkpelechis!
kpentai maru
Since no-one else has asked...what do these
phrases/words mean? (Maru of course I know)
Inquiring Minds Would Like To Know Maru :)
__
Do
In a message dated 6/15/2003 6:30:13 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Uh...phwit lamunkpelechis!
kpentai maru
Since no-one else has asked...what do these
phrases/words mean? (Maru of course I know)
Inquiring Minds Would Like To Know Maru :)
Just
--- Deborah Harrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- Jan Coffey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
snipped all but phrases of interest
Since no-one else has asked...what do these
phrases/words mean? (Maru of course I know)
Lenape, spelling I am unsure of, but then there are so many ways to properly
--- Jan Coffey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- Deborah Harrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- Jan Coffey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
snipped all but phrases of interest
Since no-one else has asked...what do these
phrases/words mean? (Maru of course I know)
Lenape, spelling I am unsure of,
--- Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Can you cite a reference on that? I know that there
is a liberal
contingent that is pro Palestinian (and a
conservative one that is
anti-Israel), but I think that Americans in general
are very supportive
of Israel.
See:
On Sat, Jun 14, 2003 at 01:08:02AM -0400, John D. Giorgis wrote:
At 01:48 PM 6/13/2003 EDT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What right did the UN have to tell Arabs how they would be
governed, or to take away their homes?
The land was under UN jurisdiction, that's what right.
More importantly,
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
Behalf Of John D. Giorgis
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 1:27 AM
To: Killer Bs Discussion
Subject: Re: Where are the European hypocrites?
At 01:34 PM 6/13/2003 -0700 Gautam Mukunda wrote:
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I read Dan's
Gautam Mukunda wrote:
http://www.mclaughlinonline.com/newspoll/np2003/021803mideast.htm
at least shows that Republicans are consistently more
likely to favor Israel than Democrats, on every
question in the poll, although it doesn't split it out
by ideology.
Not in every question:
Many world
John Giorgis said:
When it comes to discussing the situation in Israel/Palestine, there
is very little serious reason, other than as a purelya cademic
pursuit, to debate the history of the problem.
So you don't think that understanding the origins of current problems as
part of an attempt to
--- John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
At 07:49 AM 6/13/2003 -0400 Jon Gabriel wrote:
Yeah, but there have been Jews in that area since
before recorded history and they made up a very large
proportion of the population before the Israeli War of
Independence.
You know, I do
At 09:29 AM 6/14/2003 +0100 Richard Baker wrote:
So you don't think that understanding the origins of current problems as
part of an attempt to avoid similar problems in the future is
worthwhile?
Well, I hesitate to answer this question, since it is so clearly loaded,
but basically my position is
John Giorgis said:
2) I think that the history of the Israel/Palestine problem is highly
unlikely to be repeated in other conflicts in the future.
Suppose some manner of Kurdistan were produced and various Turkish and
Arab groups expelled or otherwise displaced. Wouldn't that be quite a
- Original Message -
From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 12:00 AM
Subject: Native American Rights RE: Where are the European hypocrites?
At 07:49 AM 6/13/2003 -0400 Jon Gabriel wrote:
Yeah, but there have
On 13 Jun 2003 at 23:00, Gautam Mukunda wrote:
The New York Times editorial board consistently
condemns Israel for defending itself. The Wall Street
Journal Opinion page, by contrast, makes a better case
for Israel than Israeli diplomats do.
Yep - PR is where the cultural differences
IIRC, There are approximately 3 million native Americans in the US
today. CIA Factbook lists 'Amerindians' and 'Alaskan Natives' combined
as 1.5% of the US population, but does not supply exact figures. I
believe the number was more than 10 times that (30 million+) at some
point last century.
At 11:00 PM 6/13/03 -0700, Gautam Mukunda wrote:
--- Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Can you cite a reference on that? I know that there
is a liberal
contingent that is pro Palestinian (and a
conservative one that is
anti-Israel), but I think that Americans in general
are very
On Saturday, June 14, 2003, at 07:14 pm, Ronn!Blankenship wrote:
I suspect a major reason that US conservatives back Israel is that a
major component of US conservatives is the so-called Christian Right
who are generally fairly fundamentalist Protestants who take the Bible
seriously (if not
In a message dated 6/13/2003 12:46:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
What right did the UN have to tell Arabs how they would be governed, or
to take away their homes?
For whatever its worth; Palestine was part of the british empire after the breakup of
the Otomen Empire.
On Sat, Jun 14, 2003 at 08:51:51PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
When the Britain promished the Jews a state they were not dividing
a previously existent state they were giving the Jews part of the
Land they controlled. Now you can argue that the British and then the
allies had no right to
In a message dated 6/13/2003 3:25:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Well, I'm not Steve, but you're getting into what
might be the single most contentious issue in all of
historical research right now. I think one of Leon
Uris's novels actually does a really good job of
At 11:50 PM 6/13/2003 -0700 Doug Pensinger wrote:
Should the United States continue to give $150 million of American
taxpayers' money every year to Palestinian Arabs living in the
territories of Yasser Arafat's Palestinian Palestinian Authority?
Yes Total 11.5 Rep. 10.9 Dem. 8.1 Ind. 18.6
No
On 14 Jun 2003 at 21:10, Erik Reuter wrote:
On Sat, Jun 14, 2003 at 08:51:51PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
When the Britain promished the Jews a state they were not dividing a
previously existent state they were giving the Jews part of the Land
they controlled. Now you can argue that
On Sun, Jun 15, 2003 at 03:14:52AM +0100, Andrew Crystall wrote:
There was nothing sudden about it - events leading up to it had been
going on for half a century. Perhaps WW2 gave it a final push, but
things were brewing WELL before that.
Are you suggesting that because the Palestinian Arabs
On 14 Jun 2003 at 22:42, Erik Reuter wrote:
On Sun, Jun 15, 2003 at 03:14:52AM +0100, Andrew Crystall wrote:
There was nothing sudden about it - events leading up to it had
been going on for half a century. Perhaps WW2 gave it a final push,
but things were brewing WELL before that.
--- Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I suspect a major reason that US conservatives back
Israel is that a major
component of US conservatives is the so-called
Christian Right who are
generally fairly fundamentalist Protestants who take
the Bible seriously
(if not literally), and
Andrew,
We don't seem to be communicating. I am trying to look at the situation
from the point of view of Palestinian Arabs living in the area that is
now Israel, in 1948, and how they might have thought about what happened
to them and their homes.
You are now the 3rd person that apparently
At 09:30 PM 6/14/03 +0100, William T Goodall wrote:
On Saturday, June 14, 2003, at 07:14 pm, Ronn!Blankenship wrote:
I suspect a major reason that US conservatives back Israel is that a
major component of US conservatives is the so-called Christian Right
who are generally fairly fundamentalist
On Sat, Jun 14, 2003 at 11:01:24PM -0500, Ronn!Blankenship wrote:
Huh? I guess I don't know my Freud very well . . .
The generally accepted spelling is Israeli, not Isra-LIE
--
Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.erikreuter.net/
___
At 12:14 AM 6/15/03 -0400, Erik Reuter wrote:
On Sat, Jun 14, 2003 at 11:01:24PM -0500, Ronn!Blankenship wrote:
Huh? I guess I don't know my Freud very well . . .
The generally accepted spelling is Israeli, not Isra-LIE
OK. I realized it was misspelled: I just wasn't looking for a double
Why is it so hard to see there's a difference there?
And how come the only people in the world outside of
Israel who care about the difference live in the
United States, and most of them are conservatives?
Well, most American Jews care quite a lot about Israel, and most of us are
not
At 10:26 PM 6/12/2003 +0100 Richard Baker wrote:
So if one wished to create a science-fictional situation with the US in
the position of Palestine, how would one do so?
Maybe a bunch of Liberians started moving back to Delaware, and wanted to
secede and form a separate State of Leni Lenape?
Gautam Mukunda wrote:
Rich, it's really very simple. If the Palestinians
stopped fighting, and credibly demonstrated that they
were willing to accept the existence of Israel, they'd
get a state today.
Would the Israelis be willing to give up all of their West Bank
settlements at this point?
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
Behalf Of Gautam Mukunda
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 5:32 PM
To: Killer Bs Discussion
Subject: Re: Where are the European hypocrites?
--- Richard Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Okay, choose some other state. I was just trying
On Thu, 12 Jun 2003 22:58:45 +0100, Richard Baker wrote:
Dan said:
How about, over a period of years, the US is inundated by
foreigners who look like they will drastically and permanently
change the ethnic makeup of the US? No sci-fi needed. :-)
Yes, but that's not really the same situation, is
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
Behalf Of Gautam Mukunda
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 10:15 PM
To: Killer Bs Discussion
Subject: Re: Where are the European hypocrites?
--- Richard Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Yes, but that's not really the same situation
Richard Baker wrote:
Julia said:
The thing is, Texas has more to lose by leaving the US than it has to
gain, and most of us understand that. The parallel doesn't quite work.
Okay, choose some other state. I was just trying to make people imagine
how they might feel if a foreign Israel
Jon said:
Because a largely underdog-sympathetic media in Europe has framed this
as a poor, defenseless arab people fighting against an all-powerful
jewish state.
In your opinion, are the European media more biased than the US media?
In my opinion, the British media, at least, are
On Fri, Jun 13, 2003 at 11:06:24AM -0500, Steve Sloan II wrote:
Instead, Europe decided to pay its debt by giving the Jews somebody
else's land.
Steve,
I was wondering if you could give a capsule summary of that transfer.
I don't know much about it, but I have wondered how it occurred. Most
- Original Message -
From: Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: Where are the European hypocrites?
On Fri, Jun 13, 2003 at 11:06:24AM -0500, Steve Sloan II wrote:
Instead, Europe decided to pay its
Would the Israelis be willing to give up all of their West Bank
settlements at this point?
If they did, would all of the Palestinians then quit calling for the
annihilation of all Jews? Would they give up their attempts to claim
Jerusalem?
One thing that needs to be kept in mind is
Thanks, Dan.
On Fri, Jun 13, 2003 at 12:19:09PM -0500, Dan Minette wrote:
From what I've seen from many sources, after the war was won by
Israel, the Arab countries urged the Arabs in Israel to leave so that
they may destroy Israel with impunity. Most left, but some stayed.
The ones that
The same goes for Israel. Shortly after WWII, the least
unfair solution probably would have been taking a
good-sized chunk of land from Germany to form a Jewish
homeland, while negotiating with the Middle East world to
get them visitation rights to their holy sites. Instead,
Europe decided
On Fri, Jun 13, 2003 at 01:39:33PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You're ignoring the Balfour Declaration and the fact that there was
a nascent Israel in Palestine - 1948 didn't just happen out of thin
air. You're also ignoring the fact that the UN declared a partition in
1947, but the Arabs
In a message dated 6/13/03 1:39:41 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
If that is a fair assessment, then I have another question. Were any
(or most) of the refugees able/permitted to return to their homes a
year or so later, when their fear and uncertainty had subsided? If they
were not
In a message dated 6/13/03 1:46:35 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
What right did the UN have to tell Arabs how they would be governed, or
to take away their homes?
The land was under UN jurisdiction, that's what right.
Tom Beck
www.prydonians.org
www.mercerjewishsingles.org
I always
From: Steve Sloan II [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Where are the European hypocrites?
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:06:24 -0500
Jon Gabriel wrote:
You know, I do sympathize with this point of view
On Fri, Jun 13, 2003 at 01:48:08PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 6/13/03 1:46:35 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
What right did the UN have to tell Arabs how they would be governed,
or to take away their homes?
The land was under UN jurisdiction, that's what right.
On Fri, Jun 13, 2003 at 01:47:24PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 6/13/03 1:39:41 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
If that is a fair assessment, then I have another question. Were any
(or most) of the refugees able/permitted to return to their homes a
year or so later,
On Fri, Jun 13, 2003 at 02:10:44PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 6/13/03 2:04:08 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
So, are you saying that the Arab states in the region were actually
holding the Palestinians prisoner in the refugee camps, forcibly
preventing them from
It's kind of late to worry about that now.
I have trouble reconciling that statement with someone who has an
interest in understanding history.
Come one, how many subjugated peoples in the entirety of world
history got to vote on who ruled them? They had never voted to be
In a message dated 6/13/03 2:16:38 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Why, specifically, could they not go to Israel in, say, late 1949 or
1950? Were they forcibly prevented? By whom?
By that point, I think, the Israelis wouldn't let them back (neither would
the Arab countries). And before you
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well, most American Jews care quite a lot about
Israel, and most of us are
not conservative (some of us are Conservative, but
that's whole different row of
pews...)
Tom Beck
Yeah, but if you worked out the percentages, it will
still be most. I do wonder
--- Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Would the Israelis be willing to give up all of
their West Bank
settlements at this point?
Doug
If not for security concerns, yes, absolutely (I
think). There's a small fringe of the Israeli
population that wants to annex the West Bank and the
On Fri, Jun 13, 2003 at 03:06:24PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I don't understand.
That makes two of us. But I wasn't interested in a rationalization
of bad behavior, which is what I thought I was getting. I said it
seemed unfair. You seemed to disagree and gave examples of similar poor
--- Steve Sloan II [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The same goes for Israel. Shortly after WWII, the
least
unfair solution probably would have been taking a
good-sized chunk of land from Germany to form a
Jewish
homeland, while negotiating with the Middle East
world to
get them visitation rights
On Fri, Jun 13, 2003 at 03:08:06PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 6/13/03 2:16:38 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Why, specifically, could they not go to Israel in, say, late 1949 or
1950? Were they forcibly prevented? By whom?
By that point, I think, the Israelis
On Fri, Jun 13, 2003 at 01:04:50PM -0700, Gautam Mukunda wrote:
local population fought a war of independence. In many ways it wasn't
that different from us in 1776 - except, of course, that the British
didn't intend to kill every American colonist, as the Arabs _did_ and
_do_. Israel
--- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Fri, Jun 13, 2003 at 11:06:24AM -0500, Steve
Sloan II wrote:
I was wondering if you could give a capsule summary
of that transfer.
I don't know much about it, but I have wondered how
it occurred. Most
importantly I'd like to know exactly when,
--- Richard Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In your opinion, are the European media more biased
than the US media?
In my opinion, the British media, at least, are
considerably more
balanced than those US news channels I see (CNN,
Fox). I can't speak
for newspapers though - I just read the
--- Jon Gabriel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Which is approximately 50% of the world's population
and the entire
Jewish population of Israel. (Gautam may have known
that, but I thought
the 'irony' worth posting.) :(
I did, which is why I chose the number.
and most of them are conservatives?
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I read Dan's statement from the perspective of
native North
Americans. Try that in your analogy.
Dean
I did. How many native Americans are alive in the US
today? If the number is higher than a few hundred,
then that's higher than the number of Jews there are
--- Jon Gabriel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Yeah, but there have been Jews in that area since
before recorded history and they made up a very
large
proportion of the population before the Israeli
War of
Independence.
You know, I do sympathize with this point of view,
but by those
Thanks for the summary, Gautam. That was exactly the sort of thing I
was looking for. I imagine it would have taken me weeks or more to
obtain that information by my own research. And _Supreme Command_ sounds
interesting, I'll add it to my to read list.
--
Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Thanks for the summary, Gautam. That was exactly the
sort of thing I
was looking for. I imagine it would have taken me
weeks or more to
obtain that information by my own research. And
_Supreme Command_ sounds
interesting, I'll add it to my to read
--- Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
My pleasure. I daresay I made at least a couple of
mistakes, though - it's been at least a couple of
years since I looked at the issue in detail. I
imagine that someone here will correct me if I did.
In fact, I caught one myself. Substitute
On Fri, Jun 13, 2003 at 01:27:55PM -0700, Gautam Mukunda wrote:
--- Richard Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In your opinion, are the European media more biased than the US
media? In my opinion, the British media, at least, are considerably
more balanced than those US news channels I see
--- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think she blames a fair amount of the distorted
view that many
Europeans have for America on Bush's arrogance and
poor diplomacy:
Which I don't necessarily disagree with - but it also
doesn't _begin_ to explain the insanity of asking if
Americans are
I suppose because the leaders of those countries were still trying to
bring about Israel's destruction, and the Palestinan refugee situation
seemed to them to help their cause.
That's hardly a defense, as I'm sure you're aware. We're going to let you
suffer indefinitely and ruin countless
On 13 Jun 2003 at 11:06, Steve Sloan II wrote:
Jon Gabriel wrote:
You know, I do sympathize with this point of view, but
by those standards, the United States belongs to Native
Americans, doesn't it?
(or do you feel perhaps that because they lost the
war(s), they lost
On Fri, Jun 13, 2003 at 02:16:13PM -0700, Gautam Mukunda wrote:
Which I don't necessarily disagree with - but it also doesn't _begin_
to explain the insanity of asking if Americans are being arrested for
criticizing Bush.
It does sound rather out of touch. As much as I dislike Bush's policies
--- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
But I regularly read The Economist, and I don't see
much obvious
distortion there. I don't listen to BBC radio, but I
do read BBC news
articles about world events. I haven't seen any
obvious distortion in
the top news stories on the BBC website.
At 05:52 PM 6/13/03 -0400, Erik Reuter wrote:
(have you ever watched daytime television in
America? I've had a bad cold for going on 48 hours now and I've been
watching -- there are an amazing number of out of touch people on these
talk shows)
If by talk shows you are referring to the Jerry
Gautam Mukunda wrote:
OK, this is one of those irritating cliches that
people keep repeating. How _did_ Europe pay its debt
by giving the Jews somebody else's land.
That was the impression I got from the last list discussion
about this. It was probably a false impression. In that
message, I
At 07:49 AM 6/13/2003 -0400 Jon Gabriel wrote:
Yeah, but there have been Jews in that area since
before recorded history and they made up a very large
proportion of the population before the Israeli War of
Independence.
You know, I do sympathize with this point of view, but by those
At 01:48 PM 6/13/2003 EDT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What right did the UN have to tell Arabs how they would be governed, or
to take away their homes?
The land was under UN jurisdiction, that's what right.
More importantly, WHO CARES?
When it comes to discussing the situation in
At 03:06 PM 6/13/2003 EDT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I repeat my point, that the Palestinians have been utterly betrayed at every
moment in their sorry history by those who claim to speak for them. If only
they would realize this and make true peace. They could have a state
tomorrow if
they would
At 01:36 PM 6/13/2003 EDT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
One thing that needs to be kept in mind is that groups such as Hamas do not
object to the occupation - they object to Israel's very existence.
Indeed, it is worth noting that Hamas reacted to an Israeli leader
dismantling settlements (for the
At 11:06 AM 6/13/2003 -0500 Steve Sloan II wrote:
For both issues... it's too late. I wish early American
settlers hadn't done such horrible things to the native
Americans, but it's too late to change that. The best we
can do now is try to get the survivors integrated into
American society and
--- Steve Sloan II [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gautam Mukunda wrote:
OK, this is one of those irritating cliches that
people keep repeating. How _did_ Europe pay its
debt
by giving the Jews somebody else's land.
That was the impression I got from the last list
discussion
about
At 01:34 PM 6/13/2003 -0700 Gautam Mukunda wrote:
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I read Dan's statement from the perspective of
native North
Americans. Try that in your analogy.
Dean
I did. How many native Americans are alive in the US
today? If the number is higher than a few hundred,
then
Gautam Mukunda wrote:
If not for security concerns, yes, absolutely (I
think). There's a small fringe of the Israeli
population that wants to annex the West Bank and the
Gaza Strip permanently, but they're a very small
fringe. They're holding onto the areas right now for
the very sensible
Gautam Mukunda wrote:
--- Jon Gabriel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Which is approximately 50% of the world's population
and the entire
Jewish population of Israel. (Gautam may have known
that, but I thought
the 'irony' worth posting.) :(
I did, which is why I chose the number.
and most of them
Hamas is now threatening foreigners in Israel. It has warned them to leave.
Obviously, they have no intention of giving a shit who is killed in their
attacks - Israeli, Palestinian, Arab, foreigner - it's all the same to them.
So where are those scumbag European handwringers who scream whenever
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 8:07 AM
Subject: Where are the European hypocrites?
If it's not necessarily anti-Semitism to criticize Israeli actions (and I
certainly don't think it necessarily is), then what
Dan Minette wrote:
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 8:07 AM
Subject: Where are the European hypocrites?
If it's not necessarily anti-Semitism to criticize Israeli actions (and I
certainly don't think
*raises hand sheepishly*
Rich, who wonders if there aren't also American hypocrites; and who
further wonders what might happen if a heavily armed state of foreign
nationals was sudddenly formed in, say, Texas. And who actually thinks
that the Palestinian terrorist organisations are descpicable
--- Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This is probably the wrong place to get an argument
on this. If you want
one, I think you will see a lot of people on Culture
that will blame Sharon
for the Hamas actions. ;-/
Dan M.
Well, sure. I mean, does this surprise you? There
are plenty
- Original Message -
From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 10:26 AM
Subject: Re: Where are the European hypocrites?
Dan Minette wrote:
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL
Richard Baker wrote:
*raises hand sheepishly*
Rich, who wonders if there aren't also American hypocrites; and who
further wonders what might happen if a heavily armed state of foreign
nationals was sudddenly formed in, say, Texas. And who actually thinks
that the Palestinian terrorist
Julia said:
The thing is, Texas has more to lose by leaving the US than it has to
gain, and most of us understand that. The parallel doesn't quite work.
Okay, choose some other state. I was just trying to make people imagine
how they might feel if a foreign Israel was set up in the Palestinian
- Original Message -
From: Richard Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 3:42 PM
Subject: Re: Where are the European hypocrites?
Julia said:
The thing is, Texas has more to lose by leaving the US than it has to
gain
Dan said:
But, that's not quite fair, because that's not exactly what happened.
So if one wished to create a science-fictional situation with the US in
the position of Palestine, how would one do so? Do you think it would
require an alien Israel? And then how far in the future would it have
to
--- Richard Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Okay, choose some other state. I was just trying to
make people imagine
how they might feel if a foreign Israel was set up
in the Palestinian
US. I'd imagine quite a lot of Americans would be
rather upset about
the whole thing, and try to expel it,
- Original Message -
From: Richard Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 4:26 PM
Subject: Re: Where are the European hypocrites?
Dan said:
But, that's not quite fair, because that's not exactly what happened.
So if one
Gautam said:
Yeah, but there have been Jews in that area since
before recorded history and they made up a very large
proportion of the population before the Israeli War of
Independence.
Isn't that rather like saying that the Kingdom of Jerusalem was kinda
okay because there were lots of
Dan said:
How about, over a period of years, the US is inundated by foreigners
who look like they will drastically and permanently change the ethnic
makeup of the US? No sci-fi needed. :-)
Yes, but that's not really the same situation, is it? Can you imagine a
separate sovereign Hispanic
- Original Message -
From: Richard Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: Where are the European hypocrites?
Dan said:
How about, over a period of years, the US is inundated by foreigners
who look like
Richard Baker wrote:
Julia said:
The thing is, Texas has more to lose by leaving the US than it has to
gain, and most of us understand that. The parallel doesn't quite work.
Okay, choose some other state. I was just trying to make people imagine
how they might feel if a foreign Israel
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