We just print them to Adobe Acrobat so everyone can view but not change the
files
Rob
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PDFWriter works for me from Schematic, but then it was installed with
Acrobat 4.0 so it may be a different version.
Rob
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I suspect that the project was closed with a print preview window open. So
when Protel starts up and goes to preview the page it asks the Windows
printer driver for the Printer attributes. This causes the driver to try to
ask the printer for it's settings to which there is no answer since the
I looked at the database stuff when they first added it and never used it
since everthing we had at that job (and this one too) was in Access not
dBase.
I keep asking for an access link, but no sign of it yet. The ulitmate would
be a parts picker that would query the company database and then
I've used the Signal intergrity utility and it was helpful and matched
what I was seeing on the problem design I inherited. I wish the problem I
currently have (1 buffer and 8 or 64 memory chips) could be run in it, but
it would be difficult with two boards and a connector involved not to
I thought Delphi was Pascal Prettified.
You mean Delphi isn't Pascal? What is different and why is it so much
better than C++?
I've programmed in C, Assemblers, Basic, Visual Basic, Pascal and C++, and
I would take C++ over the others for a large program in a heartbeat. C and
assembler are
Have you tried moving the files to the local drive, disconnecting the
network and logging in locally to the computer before running?
I've had tasks that were using a shared drive hang for extended periods
when the machine the share was on was turned off.
At least remove the libraries from
The drill size editor was on Protel's download page. can't help on the
others.
Rob
Richard Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 08/08/2001 06:53:25
AM
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cc:(bcc: Rob LaMoreaux/DSPT)
Subject: [PEDA]
I always use Create Symbol from Sheet to create the sheet symbols. This way
it gets the right sheet name and ports and everything. Of course I
have also done the old close and forget to save thing too.
Rob
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* To post
It was determined a while back that closing a DDB with a print preview open
caused problems when the ddb was opened and the printer the preview was
using was no longer available. If you left the print preview open and he
has a diffferent printer this could be causing the problem.
Of course for
Have you run a full DRC and made sure that there are no conflicting design
rules. I have seen this in the past when there were design rule issues that
made the board unroutable. One thing in particular is if you have no keep
out defined in which case the router can't find the edge of the board.
Select inside the area then double click on a component and uncheck the
selection box. Next change the scope to global and click OK. This will
deselect all components. Another way is to use the global change to select
all tracks and then use unselect outside to unselect outside the area of
Try just selecting the ddb that the library is in and adding it.
I suspect that your changing the file type to lib is causing it to list
the backup .lib file stored in the windows files system, where the original
lib is stored in the ddb file. When you select the ddb file it will add all
the
We have a company library in it's own ddb that is (relatively) controlled.
When the gerbers are created we create a library from the project which is
then stored with the project. This way we don't get burned later when the
global library gets changed or lost. We had this problem with the
I gave up on DXF export since everytime I've done it AutoCad has complained
that it doesn't understand the file. Other programs with DXF import would
understand it but not AutoCad. With P99SE there is a DWG export that seems
to work great, or at least our CAD department has not complained about
Beside the gerber-files, the manufacturer wants us to deliver a netlist
in
the IPC-356 or Mentor-Neutral format.
This was talked about a month or two ago. In the Cam manager create a
testpoint output and then select IPC-D-356A. Now set the options you want
(I select all of them) and when
Rob,
Has your board houses had any problems with the IPC-D-356A netlist
generated
in Protel? I thought there were some problems with Protel's netlist
generator. I am also getting alot of request for IPC-D-356A netlist
I haven't actually sent them anything since I found it would generate
4) If (1) is yes, what do I tell the PCB fab house to get them to tent the
vias? Is it as simple as tent the vias?
You select the vias, and check the box marked tenting in their property
page. The Protel won't remove solder mask in the gerber.
Rob
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Did you install the print previewer in 98 before upgrading?
I had to deinstall and reinstall Protel 99SE from scratch because some DLL
or registry setting was messed up by some addon I installed.
Usually when I get weird exceptions like this I have found them to be
because of an old DLL.
Sheet numbers are under Document Options on the organization tab to the
left of the document title. The only problem I can think of from duplicate
numbers would be if you told the netlister/synchronizer to append sheet
number to local nets.
Of course when you annotate you can have it update
Why don't you change the net labels you don't want in the netlist to
annotation text? Am I missing something? It wouldn't be the first time. ;-}
The annotation text will give the same look but won't be netlisted, thus
keeping the same look and feel to the schematic. On the +5.3V, instead of
I have had this very problem when I had metric and inch mixed and the
gerbers were done in 2.3 format, I then changed to 2.4 or 2.5 and the same
file produced usaeble gerbers. So now whenever I have something with
primitives smaller than 10 and 10 I use 2.4 or 2.5 format. Roundup error
will
creatures. Sadly to say, there is no right-thinking about it, though
I would not suggest any such solution, either. Perhaps there is a
third, like: Tools-configuration-menu
Or like Microsoft does and right-click menu bar then select customize in
the context sensitive menu.
Rob
* * * * *
(Advanced Route 3.1). I seem to remember the manual saying the
autorouter
Advanced Route 3.1 was an entirely different beast than the current router.
Compared to the current router Advanced Route was a useless piece of junk.
I think the current router is an evolution of the Neurorouter in
This was my also impression, but for some reason I had an even stronger
impression that the current router is not related to the Neuro Route
product at all. I am not sure if I got this from a conversation a long
time ago with Protel people (or ex-Protel people) or not. The old Neuro
Route
I have a board sitting here that I worked on in 1991 (386SX PC motherboard)
which has mounting holes like this, but I haven't seen it done much lately.
Basically it has a mounting hole that has the 0.156 screw hole surrounded
by 8 smaller holes in the middle of 0.375 square block of copper
Our board house is asking for a GENCAD.CAD file for their flying probe
tester which I believe is made by GenRad.
Has anyone ever heard of this format?
Is this actually a format that Protel will produce, but named wrong?
GenRads web site is less than usefull since anything that might have
Will the latest version pull in a PCAD binary file?
My current problem is we have the old PCAD binary file, but no machine
running the old PCAD, and the old file would take a week to pull in to the
new PCAD and check . Since the board house lost the program for the flying
probe tester, I'd
I have had a library update cause a part to go haywire when the origin of
the library part was way off from the center of the part. This was due to
the library being imported from another package if I remember correctly.
I have had a component move off the viewable area, and found a way to fix
and to add another question to the confusion
What happens if you have two Protel Licenses and buy 1 ATS?
It might be affordable then.
Rob
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Does anyone know how to get McAfee v5.16 and Protel 99SE with SP6 on
Windows
2000 with SP2 to play nice together. When I start and exit Protel McAfee
scans everything (taking up to 60% of the CPU resourse). It also happens
when I am working in the print preview area.
Go into McAfee and
Vias also don't have thermal reliefs like pads. (This works in PCAD,
though).
That was an old version of Protel. Currently Vias get connected
automagically to a power plane having the same net name using the connect
style for that net.
Rob
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I'm curious.
How many upgraded to Protel 99 SE and thus do not have the Protel 99 SE
Designer's Handbook, and how many people do have it?
How many of the people with the Designer's Handbook feel the simulator,
signal integrity and PLD are poorly documented?
The reason I ask is that at the
Initially on the new machine all printing activity from within Protel
would
cause a crash, from experience we know that protel is very sensitive to
graphics cards (surely not the fault of protel), so changing it sorted
some
of the crashes (its now the same as the first machine)
So we've got the same files on the same everything, what's left? Protel
is
sensitive to PC hardware, surely not..
It's possible even though it gets less likely with newer versions of
Windows. On the other hand Protel and most windows programs are sensitive
to DLLs. Protel is more
Believe it or not I have seen a hardware memory problem crash Protel. It
was the only thing that needed enough memory to actually cause that SIMM to
be used. Of course this a few years ago running something like Windows 95
on a pentium 133, but the point is that it can happen since most low to
you mean about having to repeat the setup. My one complaint is that it
insists on rebuilding all the previews whenever the slightest change is
made.
You can turn that off by going into tools preference and turning off
Perform automatic rebuild for changes.
Rob
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I am unable to open a Database file with Protel 99 SE with SP6. When I
try to open one, the program gives me the New Design Database dialog.
This installation on my computer used to work.
Did you try repairing the database? This is in the system menu on the far
left under Design
There is Parity memory and there is ECC memory,
but when the buyers always want the cheapest ...
You don't really expect a 500$ PC to have all the stuff
that is built into a 5000$ machine, do you ?
I think it way off to use software to mask hardware faults.
but when you get to more than
Can anyone tell me if it is possible make a via or pad that is connected
to
the Vcc net on the top and bottom layers only. TI do not want to connect
it
to the inner Vcc plane as the decoupling caps are on the secondary side
of
the pcb and I want the voltage to see them before the leg of the
CHeck your *99SE.INI, *99SE.DFT, *99SE.RCS, and *99SE.* files in the
\WINDOWS directory.
My guess is one of them didn't get written correctly or got deleted. Since
99Se uses different files from 98 this would explain the difference. I once
reinstalled Protel only to realise that the problem
Does having a large paging (swap file, I'm assuming these are the same)
file
really make a difference in system performance?
If the program needs more than the pages file has then the OS will have to
enlarge the page file which takes time and then you have chunks all over
the hard drive and
no it doesn't work properly! as soon as the wheel is turned the
keyboard
freaks out and i have to reboot. (press Esc and the windows start button
menuwould pop-up.)
this sounds like the MouseWheel driver problem, which was not Protels bug,
but Microsofts. what version of Mouse
My experience with Xilinx parts is that there is no easy way to create them
period. The newer parts may be different when used with the newer xilinx
tools, but the older parts i have to support are a royal pain. These parts
were done in OrCad or Viewlogic then converted through a series of
I heard from a friend that Protel won't work on Windows XP. I'm setting
up
a new computer, and I'd like to run Windows XP if I can.
There was a discussion on this list a while back about some part of Windows
XP help ceasing to work after Protel was run under Windows XP Home (not
Pro).
As I
The problem is similar to converting gerber to PCB, only more complex
because of scaling and because both gerber and Protel are vector-based. I
don't know about PDF.
PDF is basically encapsulated binary Postscript with some extensions so it
contains vectors bitmaps and scalable fonts.
speaking of DDBs, has anyone ever figured out how to open them with Access?
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Or how do I give the sheets in the project numbers
Use the Anotate function (Tools- Annotate menu item) and tell it to Update Sheet
Numbers Only in the first combo box, or manually go into the sheet options
(Design-Options menu item) dialog box and change the sheet number on the
Organization
Try the manufacturers web site or the IPC land pattern web site at
http://search.ipc.org/sm782/default.asp
Adeline Ko [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 05/31/2002 11:58:53 AM
Please respond to Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc:(bcc: Rob LaMoreaux/DSPT)
I want to make rectangular holes in pads for components with metal tabs. For
instance, a hole 40mils by 120 mils. Can this be done in Protel 99SE? BTW,
is hole the proper nomeclature for this?
I've done this in the past by placing the appropriate track on the drill drawing
layer, then
If you look in the Design Explorer 99 SE\Library\PLD directory you will find the
files for Protel PLD including Atmel.DL which as I recall contains the info you
are looking for. I did this type of thing more than 2 years ago so I can't
remember exactly, but all CUPL files are there. At one
I downloaded the atmel tools and noticed that there are more than just the
ATMEL.DL file you will need. There are also some executables that it will need
to be put into the Library\PLD directory. It also appears that the Atmel
massaged version may have some of PEAKVHDL in it, which I would
The other file is in the Fitter update from Atmel, I think just unzipping it to
the Library\PLD directory may be enough to get it to work.
Rob
Jeff Stout [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 06/12/2002 05:34:13 PM
Please respond to Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL
I played with the licensing back when it came out and while you can't lock the
PCB license to you machine easily if at all you can prevent the messages.
Your coworker have to start the PCB server for the annoying message, so my guess
is PCB is set to Automatically start on their machines. Try
I use simulation for a couple of reasons.
Last year I was given and existing design that didn't work. i found a few
problems like op amps going into saturation and taking way too long to recover.
In order to develop a fix I used simulation to determine if the voltage limiter
would effect the
For the fonts that don't render correctly you may have to tell the PDF writer to
embedd the fonts. I haven't seen a problem with the arcs.
Rob
Brian Sherer [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 07/10/2002 01:07:22 PM
Please respond to Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL
And why is it that the STUPID 17 inch outdoor LCD screen at my local Wendy's
Drive thru has better contrast and color than the
indoor desktop LCD screens? Even when the temperature is -20 outside? (Though,
the pixel transition speed around scrolling text
begins to suffer dramatically.)
Your
Could you have done a global change and changed the attributes, but not the
component. I know I did this once a few years ago.
Rob
* Tracking #: F24B2F10F97C094B8B31F7E2C91D7B57891B3470
*
Don't you think this sentence could be true: IT IS MICROSOFT'S MOUSE DRIVER
FAULT AND IT IS THEIR(MS) RESPONSIBILITY TO FIX THE BUG
And Microsoft did fix the bug in the Intellimouse drivers before JaMi got his
machine from Dell! The fix drive just did not ship with the Dell machines.
I probably did not respond because I got busy doing work and deleted the message
without reading it as I do with the majority of messages on this list.
Having worked for a major PC Manufacturer it in no way surprised me that Dell
would ship an older driver. The driver they ship is what they
We have both Protel 99SE (bought to seats) and PCAD (inherited 1 seat), and
comparing them PCAD is more powerfull, but Protel is easier to use. They both
have different ways of doing things so going between them is not the easiest
thing for the user.
The features announced for DXP look to
For instance, I was happily running Office 97 under NT when the computer
guys decided to give me an upgrade to Office 2000. Whether this event was
related or not with other upgrades, shortly thereafter I got a failure to
Speaking of upgrades breaking things, I once had a machine that would
I haven't looked into it, but I believe this could be done, by saving the pcb to
an ASCII file then editing the text there.
Rob
Frances Wheeler [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 07/30/2002 11:09:21 AM
Please respond to Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc:
Why is this info being stored and how do I stop it from doing so?
Especially the pin number starting 8.
Go to Preferences and change the default primitives to what you want them
to default to and you should be happier. My default pin is set to 0 and 0.
Rob
I agree the rounding errors in Protel PCB between metric and imperial are
really annoying, making things fall off grid. Many a time I have editted
a
pad/part/track when I see 29.99mm and think Hey this should be 30mm
and accidently go and edit it to 30.999mm. G.
I just
I've hidden them and not depending on the part. On one of the last parts I
created I hid the pins then listed them text on the square of the component
so that the tech could tell which are which.
Even if you hide them think about where they are so that when you need to
unhide them they
Is it my imagination or does the net list generator in DXP SCH tools no
longer support other vendors
formats (PADS PPCB) or a straight wire list?
I can't see it, but the help for Create Netlist shows an additional to be
determined function so it may be a future service pack item.
A better
As far as I know this has not been designated a 'non-dxp' area :) :)
But seriously, I know the support people at Protel and my local VAR
watch this forum as well, and of
course, they are more than capable of responding here, if they wished
too.
I did not say it was. I was just stating my
I am afraid that to actually have the system (99SE, don't
know about DXP) match these leghts it will not do it,
Isn't this what the menu item 'Tools-Equalize Net Lengths' for? I haven't
used it except to play back when it was first introduced in 99 or 99SE,
but it adds segments to get the
I've wondered how one goes about spoofing the from address, since
that's
such a common tactic for spam and other undesirable mail. My sister just
got
an email with a virus the other day, and the return address claimed it
was
from me. I haven't seen any way within AOL to monkey with the
But, many of the messages that look like they come from some particular
user, actually came from another user who had the first user in his
address
book. There were some submissions to this list, and some to members of
this
Klez and some other virii not only rifle through the address book,
As I understand it you want to have one library part for each part number
in your system, and you want the part information in a field.
One way to do this is to add component names to the component for every
partnumber. So than the library item RESISTOR would also have names equal
to all your
I've only seen this when I had some holes on top of holes. One report
consolidated the holes at the same location and the other did not.
Robert D. LaMoreaux
MTS Systems Corp.
Powertrain Technology Division
4622 Runway Blvd.
Ann Arbor, MI 48108
734-822-9696
Fax 734-973-1103
Main Desk
NAV causes a LOT of problems for a LOT of people. Try uninstalling it
and if you're worried, keep that machine off the net for a few weeks.
At the very least configure it to NOT scan .INI files since P99SE hits
it's .INI files often and having the files scanned for viruses slows
everything
they were meatball 10/10 mostly 12/12 bds
there was a giant pour on the entire top
the clearance on the pour was 20 mils all the way around the pads (to
make it easy and not get shorts!)
they said with a big plane it is harder to etch
there must be at least a bit of truth to that
It always says that there are warnings about my PCB, however it seems to
work fine when I let it continue. I assume that these are undefined
integrity (IBIS or similar) libraries.
Actually they are probably loops in the tracks. These loops may be under
pads and thus hard to find.
I ran into
the copper. I fixed the loops and SI worked great.
So I should probably get DXP back to find these kind of errors...
Well it does do a bit better job at it, and from the sounds of it the
first Service pack will fix almost all the issues and requests for
improvements.
Once you take over
Bug's a bug's a bug, and that's what the original post endeavored to
report.
And what wasn't reported on this list was the repsonse from Protel saying
that this is fixed in the soon to be realeased Service Pack.
Robert D. LaMoreaux
MTS Systems Corp.
Powertrain Technology Division
4622
My question is how do you view and/or check the gerber? Is there some
gerber
viewer program out there that I need to know about, or perhaps a
feature in
protel99se that I'm not aware of.
Yes. It is called CamTastic and you should have received a copy with
Protel 99SE.
I think that this is
On trying to import the .PCB file, I get the message Unsupported
File Format. On trying to import the .Sch file, I get a system crash
due to an illegal driver call..
Has anyone successfully imported older P-CAD PCB or .SCH files?
Are they in ascii format? I seem to recall something about
What version of Protel did you use to import the P-CAD files? And, do
you
recall the P-CAD version they were generated under? I've since been told
the
files I have were done under P-CAD 2001/SP1.
At one point the only version of PCAD supported for import was 2000.
Looking at the Protel
On yet a different note, could it be due to too many people attempting
to
access a limited number of licenses at the same time - What would Prohel
do
if there were two requests for access at the same time (a second request
sent (to the same subroutine or procedure) while the first request
That would help him if he were using DXP, but since he is using P99SE his
only choice is to use the hole size editor and manually check that the
holes are in his list.
So you can make a rule to limit your holes to a list in DXP but not in
P99SE.
Robert D. LaMoreaux
MTS Systems Corp.
Well I sit corrected. Sorry. I never even noticed Query Manager in the
menus. I guess you learn something new every day.
Robert D. LaMoreaux
MTS Systems Corp.
Powertrain Technology Division
4622 Runway Blvd.
Ann Arbor, MI 48108
734-822-9696
Fax 734-973-1103
Main Desk 734-973-
Wojciech
The problem start when i try to place a track, the anchor point in the
metric component pad has ok but when i draw the track outside the pad or
over the pad the track goes to grid. Can you understand my problem? Have
you a solution???
I just route it with a grid of something like 5mil.
My problem is to get the designators to be independent of the components
and placed on Mechanical Layer 4.
I would like to present documentation where I have a silk screen layer
and a component placement layer independent of each other.
Since PCBs are getting smaller and smaller I have no
I'm using an old version (v3.6) because that's what my customer owns and
they don't want to upgrade. My question is: What do I need to do, either
in the schematic or PCB editor, to get the netlist to connect to the PCB
edge connector (AT board) created by the PCB wizard? I've looked all
Do you have virus checking on? I have an ongoing thing with our IT
department because they want viruscan to check INI files and Protel hits
INI files hard so the viruscan slows it to a crawl.
Just a thought that it may be a similar issue since I believe I read you
said it was opening and
Brady and others make various poly-whatever label stock that can be laser
or thermal transfer printed onto. See
http://catalog.bradyserve.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/CategoryDisplay?cgmenbr=2cgrfnbr=21753CTcount=1
Some of these labels will even take the high temperatures of a reflow
oven. See BRADY
The text book standard that is
1signal
2gnd
3signal
4gnd
5pwr
6signal
7pwr
8signal
I thought that the following stackup was prefered because then every
signal is one layer from a ground plane.
1signal
2gnd
3signal
4pwr
5pwr
First, my experience regarding layout is minimal at best since I seem to
exhaust all the wrong ways first. I once took a class in multilayer
layout
and was told that the capacitance between the power/ground planes
themselves was sufficient for decoupling high frequencies and that
adding
The way I read the PCI spec, a number of years ago when I designed a PCI
board, you were REQUIRED to terminate ALL power pins on the board with a
specified capacitance that could be from the power plane or capacitors if
the plane wasn't enough. It read to me that you could combine pins into
I have carefully inspected the routes and no sign of loops anywhere. The
analyzer seems to have particular problems with T networks. I have
cured
one instance of this by removing the route, deleting the net, creating a
The loops could be under pads. I had this problem on a board and could
Never seen this myself, but found this with a quick internet search:
Check this outcarefully:) Hive: HKEY_CURRENT_USER Key:
Software\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\System Name: DisableCMD Type:
REG_DWORD Value: 0 enable command prompt and batch files Value: 1 disable
command prompt and
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