Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-27 Thread Philip Thrift
On Thursday, December 27, 2018 at 6:55:34 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 24 Dec 2018, at 14:55, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Monday, December 24, 2018 at 6:55:46 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 23 Dec 2018, at 13:39, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sunday,

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-27 Thread Bruno Marchal
> On 24 Dec 2018, at 14:55, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Monday, December 24, 2018 at 6:55:46 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 23 Dec 2018, at 13:39, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sunday, December 23, 2018 at 5:20:57 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 21 Dec

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-24 Thread Philip Thrift
On Monday, December 24, 2018 at 6:55:46 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 23 Dec 2018, at 13:39, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Sunday, December 23, 2018 at 5:20:57 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 21 Dec 2018, at 11:06, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Friday, December

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-24 Thread Bruno Marchal
> On 23 Dec 2018, at 13:39, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Sunday, December 23, 2018 at 5:20:57 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 21 Dec 2018, at 11:06, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 3:18:26 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 20 Dec

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-23 Thread Philip Thrift
On Sunday, December 23, 2018 at 5:20:57 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 21 Dec 2018, at 11:06, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 3:18:26 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 20 Dec 2018, at 14:49, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> The psychical

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-23 Thread Bruno Marchal
> On 21 Dec 2018, at 11:06, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 3:18:26 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 20 Dec 2018, at 14:49, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> The psychical (experiential) states of matter (brain) > > Why a brain? If matter can be conscious,

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-21 Thread Philip Thrift
On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 3:18:26 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 20 Dec 2018, at 14:49, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > The psychical (experiential) states of matter (brain) > > > Why a brain? If matter can be conscious, what is the role of the > (non-digital) brain? > > > > > >

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-21 Thread Bruno Marchal
> On 20 Dec 2018, at 14:49, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Thursday, December 20, 2018 at 5:41:07 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 19 Dec 2018, at 19:36, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 9:19:50 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 18

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-20 Thread Philip Thrift
On Thursday, December 20, 2018 at 5:41:07 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 19 Dec 2018, at 19:36, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 9:19:50 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 18 Dec 2018, at 16:40, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> snip >> >> > >>

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-20 Thread Bruno Marchal
> On 19 Dec 2018, at 19:36, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 9:19:50 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 18 Dec 2018, at 16:40, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> snip >> >> >> I should add: Why is fictionalism compelling? >> >> When you get down to

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-19 Thread Philip Thrift
On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 9:19:50 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 18 Dec 2018, at 16:40, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, December 18, 2018 at 9:24:12 AM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, December 18, 2018 at 5:04:32 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote:

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-19 Thread Bruno Marchal
> On 18 Dec 2018, at 16:40, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, December 18, 2018 at 9:24:12 AM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > On Tuesday, December 18, 2018 at 5:04:32 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 17 Dec 2018, at 14:32, Philip Thrift > wrote: >> >> >> >> On Monday,

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-18 Thread Philip Thrift
On Tuesday, December 18, 2018 at 9:24:12 AM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, December 18, 2018 at 5:04:32 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 17 Dec 2018, at 14:32, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Monday, December 17, 2018 at 6:51:19 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>>

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-18 Thread Philip Thrift
On Tuesday, December 18, 2018 at 5:04:32 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 17 Dec 2018, at 14:32, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Monday, December 17, 2018 at 6:51:19 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 16 Dec 2018, at 19:24, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sunday,

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-18 Thread Bruno Marchal
> On 17 Dec 2018, at 14:32, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Monday, December 17, 2018 at 6:51:19 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 16 Dec 2018, at 19:24, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sunday, December 16, 2018 at 11:27:50 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> > On 15 Dec

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-17 Thread Philip Thrift
On Monday, December 17, 2018 at 6:51:19 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 16 Dec 2018, at 19:24, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Sunday, December 16, 2018 at 11:27:50 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> > On 15 Dec 2018, at 00:00, Brent Meeker wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > On

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-17 Thread Bruno Marchal
> On 16 Dec 2018, at 19:24, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Sunday, December 16, 2018 at 11:27:50 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 15 Dec 2018, at 00:00, Brent Meeker > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > On 12/14/2018 2:59 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >>> On 13 Dec 2018, at 21:24, Brent

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-16 Thread Bruno Marchal
> On 15 Dec 2018, at 00:12, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Friday, December 14, 2018 at 5:00:33 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > On 12/14/2018 2:59 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 13 Dec 2018, at 21:24, Brent Meeker > > >> wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >> On 12/13/2018 3:25 AM, Bruno Marchal

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-16 Thread Philip Thrift
On Sunday, December 16, 2018 at 11:27:50 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > > On 15 Dec 2018, at 00:00, Brent Meeker > wrote: > > > > > > > > On 12/14/2018 2:59 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >>> On 13 Dec 2018, at 21:24, Brent Meeker > wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On 12/13/2018 3:25

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-16 Thread Bruno Marchal
> On 15 Dec 2018, at 00:00, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 12/14/2018 2:59 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> On 13 Dec 2018, at 21:24, Brent Meeker wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 12/13/2018 3:25 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > But that is the same as saying proof=>truth. I don’t think so. It

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-16 Thread Bruno Marchal
> On 14 Dec 2018, at 12:01, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Friday, December 14, 2018 at 4:49:33 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 13 Dec 2018, at 21:05, Brent Meeker > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On 12/13/2018 3:18 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Automating Gödel'’s Ontological Proof of

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-14 Thread Philip Thrift
On Friday, December 14, 2018 at 5:00:33 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > > On 12/14/2018 2:59 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 13 Dec 2018, at 21:24, Brent Meeker > wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >> On 12/13/2018 3:25 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > But that is the same as saying proof=>truth. >

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-14 Thread Brent Meeker
On 12/14/2018 2:59 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 13 Dec 2018, at 21:24, Brent Meeker wrote: On 12/13/2018 3:25 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: But that is the same as saying proof=>truth. I don’t think so. It says that []p -> p is not provable, unless p is proved. So []([]p -> p) -> p or in

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-14 Thread Philip Thrift
On Friday, December 14, 2018 at 4:49:33 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 13 Dec 2018, at 21:05, Brent Meeker > > wrote: > > > > On 12/13/2018 3:18 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > *Automating Gödel'’s Ontological Proof of God’s Existence ¨ with > Higher-order Automated Theorem Provers* >

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-14 Thread Bruno Marchal
> On 13 Dec 2018, at 21:24, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 12/13/2018 3:25 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> But that is the same as saying proof=>truth. >> >> I don’t think so. It says that []p -> p is not provable, unless p is proved. > > So []([]p -> p) -> p or in other words Proof([]p ->

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-14 Thread Bruno Marchal
> On 13 Dec 2018, at 21:05, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 12/13/2018 3:18 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> Automating Gödel'’s Ontological Proof of God’s Existence ¨ with >>> Higher-order Automated Theorem Provers >>> http://page.mi.fu-berlin.de/cbenzmueller/papers/C40.pdf >>>

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-13 Thread Brent Meeker
On 12/13/2018 3:25 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: But that is the same as saying proof=>truth. I don’t think so. It says that []p -> p is not provable, unless p is proved. So  []([]p -> p) -> p  or in other words Proof([]p -> p) => (p is true)  So in this case proof entails truth?? For

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-13 Thread Brent Meeker
On 12/13/2018 3:18 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: *Automating Gödel'’s Ontological Proof of God’s Existence ¨ with Higher-order Automated Theorem Provers* http://page.mi.fu-berlin.de/cbenzmueller/papers/C40.pdf Gödel took the modal logic S5 for its proof, which is the only logic NOT available

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-13 Thread Philip Thrift
On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 9:30:10 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > the mathematical idea of "true" is very different from the common one. > > Brent > > > This reminds me of the "truth" the guys on *The Big Bang Theory* refer to a lot: They have arguments of what would be the case (be

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-13 Thread Bruno Marchal
> On 13 Dec 2018, at 04:30, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 12/12/2018 9:18 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 12 Dec 2018, at 12:54, Philip Thrift >> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 5:09:00 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>>

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-13 Thread Bruno Marchal
> On 12 Dec 2018, at 19:37, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 11:18:48 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 12 Dec 2018, at 12:54, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 5:09:00 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 11

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-12 Thread Brent Meeker
On 12/12/2018 9:18 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 12 Dec 2018, at 12:54, Philip Thrift > wrote: On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 5:09:00 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 11 Dec 2018, at 12:58, Philip Thrift > wrote: On Tuesday, December 11,

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-12 Thread Philip Thrift
On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 11:18:48 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 12 Dec 2018, at 12:54, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 5:09:00 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 11 Dec 2018, at 12:58, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tuesday,

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-12 Thread Bruno Marchal
> On 12 Dec 2018, at 12:54, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 5:09:00 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 11 Dec 2018, at 12:58, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, December 11, 2018 at 5:41:49 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 11

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-12 Thread Philip Thrift
On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 5:09:00 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 11 Dec 2018, at 12:58, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, December 11, 2018 at 5:41:49 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 11 Dec 2018, at 12:11, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> Nothing is

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-12 Thread Bruno Marchal
> On 11 Dec 2018, at 12:58, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, December 11, 2018 at 5:41:49 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 11 Dec 2018, at 12:11, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> Nothing is "confirmed" and "made precise". >> >> (Derrida, Rorty, …) > > That would make

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-11 Thread Brent Meeker
On 12/11/2018 3:58 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: On Tuesday, December 11, 2018 at 5:41:49 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 11 Dec 2018, at 12:11, Philip Thrift > wrote: Nothing is "confirmed" and "made precise". (Derrida, Rorty, …) That would make Derrida and Rorty into

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-11 Thread Philip Thrift
On Tuesday, December 11, 2018 at 5:41:49 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 11 Dec 2018, at 12:11, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > Nothing is "confirmed" and "made precise". > > (Derrida, Rorty, …) > > > That would make Derrida and Rorty into obscurantism. Confirmation does not > make an

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-11 Thread Bruno Marchal
> On 11 Dec 2018, at 12:11, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, December 11, 2018 at 4:21:07 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 9 Dec 2018, at 21:45, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sunday, December 9, 2018 at 6:03:27 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 7 Dec

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-11 Thread Philip Thrift
On Tuesday, December 11, 2018 at 4:21:07 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 9 Dec 2018, at 21:45, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Sunday, December 9, 2018 at 6:03:27 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 7 Dec 2018, at 21:17, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Friday, December

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-11 Thread Bruno Marchal
> On 9 Dec 2018, at 21:45, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Sunday, December 9, 2018 at 6:03:27 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 7 Dec 2018, at 21:17, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Friday, December 7, 2018 at 9:39:15 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 7 Dec 2018,

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-09 Thread Philip Thrift
On Sunday, December 9, 2018 at 6:03:27 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 7 Dec 2018, at 21:17, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Friday, December 7, 2018 at 9:39:15 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 7 Dec 2018, at 12:38, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Friday, December 7,

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-09 Thread Bruno Marchal
> On 7 Dec 2018, at 21:17, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Friday, December 7, 2018 at 9:39:15 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 7 Dec 2018, at 12:38, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Friday, December 7, 2018 at 4:14:20 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 6 Dec 2018,

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-07 Thread Philip Thrift
On Friday, December 7, 2018 at 9:39:15 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 7 Dec 2018, at 12:38, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Friday, December 7, 2018 at 4:14:20 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 6 Dec 2018, at 12:33, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thursday, December

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-07 Thread Bruno Marchal
> On 7 Dec 2018, at 12:38, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Friday, December 7, 2018 at 4:14:20 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 6 Dec 2018, at 12:33, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thursday, December 6, 2018 at 5:05:55 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 5 Dec 2018,

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-07 Thread Philip Thrift
On Friday, December 7, 2018 at 4:14:20 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 6 Dec 2018, at 12:33, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Thursday, December 6, 2018 at 5:05:55 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 5 Dec 2018, at 19:20, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday,

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-07 Thread Bruno Marchal
> On 6 Dec 2018, at 12:33, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Thursday, December 6, 2018 at 5:05:55 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 5 Dec 2018, at 19:20, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, December 5, 2018 at 5:29:44 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 4 Dec

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-06 Thread Philip Thrift
On Thursday, December 6, 2018 at 5:05:55 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 5 Dec 2018, at 19:20, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, December 5, 2018 at 5:29:44 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 4 Dec 2018, at 17:48, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On the truth of

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-06 Thread Bruno Marchal
> On 5 Dec 2018, at 19:20, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, December 5, 2018 at 5:29:44 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 4 Dec 2018, at 17:48, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >>> >>> >>> On the truth of computationalism, I mean to express emphatically that >>> computationalism

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-05 Thread Philip Thrift
On Wednesday, December 5, 2018 at 5:29:44 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 4 Dec 2018, at 17:48, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > >> >> >> On the truth of computationalism, I mean to express emphatically that >> *computationalism >> is indeed false*, and it should be replaced by what I call

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-05 Thread Bruno Marchal
> On 4 Dec 2018, at 17:48, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, December 4, 2018 at 6:37:01 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 4 Dec 2018, at 11:39, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, December 4, 2018 at 4:25:37 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 3 Dec 2018,

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-04 Thread John Clark
On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 6:05 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: >* It is very simple. Never claim to have the truth, and always present a > theory having verifiable consequences.* > Your theory is a working Turing Machine can be made without using matter or physics, so don't show me more squiggles, show me

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-04 Thread Philip Thrift
On Tuesday, December 4, 2018 at 6:37:01 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 4 Dec 2018, at 11:39, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, December 4, 2018 at 4:25:37 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 3 Dec 2018, at 23:01, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Monday, December

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-04 Thread Bruno Marchal
> On 4 Dec 2018, at 11:39, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, December 4, 2018 at 4:25:37 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 3 Dec 2018, at 23:01, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Monday, December 3, 2018 at 1:24:30 PM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 2 Dec 2018,

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-04 Thread Philip Thrift
On Tuesday, December 4, 2018 at 4:25:37 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 3 Dec 2018, at 23:01, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Monday, December 3, 2018 at 1:24:30 PM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 2 Dec 2018, at 13:24, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sunday, December 2,

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-04 Thread Bruno Marchal
> On 3 Dec 2018, at 23:01, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Monday, December 3, 2018 at 1:24:30 PM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 2 Dec 2018, at 13:24, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sunday, December 2, 2018 at 5:23:15 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 29 Nov 2018,

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-03 Thread Philip Thrift
On Monday, December 3, 2018 at 1:24:30 PM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 2 Dec 2018, at 13:24, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Sunday, December 2, 2018 at 5:23:15 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 29 Nov 2018, at 20:00, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thursday, November

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-03 Thread Bruno Marchal
> On 3 Dec 2018, at 12:24, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Monday, December 3, 2018 at 5:05:57 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > You assume a primary physical reality. I do not, and on the contrary show > that this idea is contradictory with the Mechanist theory. > > > > > Since

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-03 Thread Bruno Marchal
> On 2 Dec 2018, at 13:32, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Sunday, December 2, 2018 at 5:26:14 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 29 Nov 2018, at 20:24, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 10:44:05 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 27 Nov

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-03 Thread Bruno Marchal
> On 2 Dec 2018, at 13:24, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Sunday, December 2, 2018 at 5:23:15 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 29 Nov 2018, at 20:00, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 10:27:00 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 27 Nov

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-03 Thread Philip Thrift
On Monday, December 3, 2018 at 5:05:57 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > > You assume a primary physical reality. I do not, and on the contrary show > that this idea is contradictory with the Mechanist theory. > > > Since Matter (a material computer) can compute Mechanism, I don't see how

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-03 Thread Bruno Marchal
> On 30 Nov 2018, at 20:52, John Clark wrote: > > On Thu, Nov 29, 2018 at 1:53 PM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > > >>All I ask you to do is follow the scientific method. > > > I do, which is not so frequent in theology > > The scientific method in theology? You must be

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-02 Thread Philip Thrift
On Sunday, December 2, 2018 at 5:26:14 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 29 Nov 2018, at 20:24, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 10:44:05 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 27 Nov 2018, at 20:21, Brent Meeker wrote: >> >> >> What is this "primary

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-02 Thread Philip Thrift
On Sunday, December 2, 2018 at 5:23:15 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 29 Nov 2018, at 20:00, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 10:27:00 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 27 Nov 2018, at 18:50, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tuesday,

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-02 Thread Bruno Marchal
> On 29 Nov 2018, at 20:24, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 10:44:05 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 27 Nov 2018, at 20:21, Brent Meeker > >> wrote: >> >> >> What is this "primary matter" of which you speak? > > > X is Primary means basically that

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-12-02 Thread Bruno Marchal
> On 29 Nov 2018, at 20:00, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 10:27:00 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 27 Nov 2018, at 18:50, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, November 27, 2018 at 4:32:53 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 24

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-11-30 Thread John Clark
On Thu, Nov 29, 2018 at 1:53 PM Bruno Marchal wrote: >>All I ask you to do is follow the scientific method. > > > *> I do, which is not so frequent in theology* > The scientific method in theology? You must be kidding. > *You are the one invoking your ontological commitment when defining real

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-11-30 Thread Bruno Marchal
> On 29 Nov 2018, at 16:36, John Clark wrote: > > On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 9:08 PM Martin Abramson > wrote: > > > How do they replicate themselves with the exact same memory engrams as > > before? Thanks for the response. m.a. > > The exact mechanism

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-11-29 Thread Philip Thrift
What does this mean in terms of (the possibility of) making a Star Trek transporter? :) [ https://www.thoughtco.com/star-trek-instantaneous-matter-transport-3072118 ] - pt On Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 8:34:23 PM UTC-6, Monterey wrote: > > My original question was about copying

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-11-29 Thread Martin Abramson
My original question was about copying memories between identical carbon atoms. How does that work with DNA molecules? Are they composed of carbon atoms? On Thu, Nov 29, 2018 at 10:37 AM John Clark wrote: > On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 9:08 PM Martin Abramson > wrote: > > > *How do they replicate

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-11-29 Thread Philip Thrift
On Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 10:44:05 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 27 Nov 2018, at 20:21, Brent Meeker > > wrote: > > > What is this "primary matter" of which you speak? > > > > X is Primary means basically that we have to assume X (or something judged > enough equivalent). >

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-11-29 Thread Philip Thrift
On Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 10:27:00 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 27 Nov 2018, at 18:50, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, November 27, 2018 at 4:32:53 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 24 Nov 2018, at 17:27, John Clark wrote: >> >> >> >> >> Turing

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-11-29 Thread Bruno Marchal
> On 28 Nov 2018, at 00:44, John Clark wrote: > > On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 5:32 AM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > > >>My commitment is with the scientific method, so when you make outlandish > >>claims (matter is not needed to make calculations Robison arithmetic alone >

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-11-29 Thread Bruno Marchal
> On 27 Nov 2018, at 20:21, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 11/27/2018 2:38 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 25 Nov 2018, at 15:41, John Clark >> > wrote: >>> >>> On Sun, Nov 25, 2018 at 4:40 AM Philip Thrift >> > wrote: >>> >>>

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-11-29 Thread Bruno Marchal
> On 27 Nov 2018, at 18:50, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, November 27, 2018 at 4:32:53 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 24 Nov 2018, at 17:27, John Clark > >> wrote: > > > >> Turing explained how matter can behave intelligently, > > No. He showed how a person can be

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-11-29 Thread John Clark
On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 9:08 PM Martin Abramson wrote: > *How do they replicate themselves with the exact same memory engrams as > before? Thanks for the response. m.a.* > The exact mechanism depends on the specific example, computers have many different ways to duplicate information. In

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-11-28 Thread Martin Abramson
How do they replicate themselves with the exact same memory engrams as before? Thanks for the response. m.a. On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 11:28 AM John Clark wrote: > > > On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 9:39 AM Martin Abramson > wrote: > > >"Anything with the capacity to change will do and that's why

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-11-28 Thread Philip Thrift
On Wednesday, November 28, 2018 at 7:52:46 AM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: > > On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 3:05 AM Philip Thrift > wrote: > > > *What in matter is not simulatable in arithmetic is experience.* >> > > That's just a specific example of a more general concept, change. If you > have an

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-11-28 Thread John Clark
On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 9:39 AM Martin Abramson wrote: >"Anything with the capacity to change will do and that's why one carbon > atom is a good as another." Please explain. m.a. > Science can not tell the difference between one carbon atom and another (if they are of the same isotope), good

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-11-28 Thread Martin Abramson
"Anything with the capacity to change will do and that's why one carbon atom is a good as another." Please explain. m.a. On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 8:52 AM John Clark wrote: > On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 3:05 AM Philip Thrift > wrote: > > > *What in matter is not simulatable in arithmetic is

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-11-28 Thread John Clark
On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 3:05 AM Philip Thrift wrote: > *What in matter is not simulatable in arithmetic is experience.* > That's just a specific example of a more general concept, change. If you have an experience you have changed, you're different than if you did not have the experience.

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-11-28 Thread Philip Thrift
On Tuesday, November 27, 2018 at 5:45:33 PM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: > > On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 5:32 AM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > >> *>What in “matter” plays the role of not being able to be emulated in >> arithmetic.* >> > > Intelligence needs change. Matter can change in both time and space.

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-11-27 Thread John Clark
On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 5:32 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: >>My commitment is with the scientific method, so when you make outlandish >> claims (*matter is not needed to make calculations Robison arithmetic >> alone can do so, Kleene’s predicate T(x, y, z) can encode information*) >> I ask you to

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-11-27 Thread Brent Meeker
On 11/27/2018 2:38 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 25 Nov 2018, at 15:41, John Clark > wrote: On Sun, Nov 25, 2018 at 4:40 AM Philip Thrift > wrote: Dennett's said: “/The elusive subjective conscious experience—the redness of red,

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-11-27 Thread Philip Thrift
On Tuesday, November 27, 2018 at 4:32:53 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 24 Nov 2018, at 17:27, John Clark > > wrote: > > > > > Turing explained how matter can behave intelligently, > > > No. He showed how a person can be attached to a computation, and also that > physics is Turing

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-11-27 Thread Bruno Marchal
> On 25 Nov 2018, at 15:41, John Clark wrote: > > On Sun, Nov 25, 2018 at 4:40 AM Philip Thrift > wrote: > > Dennett's said: > > “The elusive subjective conscious experience—the redness of red, the > painfulness of pain—that philosophers call qualia? Sheer

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-11-27 Thread Bruno Marchal
> On 24 Nov 2018, at 17:27, John Clark wrote: > > On Fri, Nov 23, 2018 at 8:31 AM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > > > in a precise context, when doing science/mathematics, it is useful to have > > precise mathematical definition. > > Sure definitions can be useful but

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-11-25 Thread John Clark
On Sun, Nov 25, 2018 at 4:40 AM Philip Thrift wrote: Dennett's said: “*The elusive subjective conscious experience—the redness of red, the painfulness of pain—that philosophers call qualia? Sheer illusion*.” The trouble with the above statement isn't so much that it's false, the trouble is

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-11-25 Thread Philip Thrift
On Saturday, November 24, 2018 at 5:10:49 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > > On 11/24/2018 5:39 AM, John Clark wrote: > > > On Fri, Nov 23, 2018 at 1:10 PM Philip Thrift > wrote: > > *> Some in AI will say if something is just informationally intelligent >> (or pseudo-intelligent) but not

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-11-24 Thread John Clark
On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 6:10 PM Brent Meeker wrote: *>The question is whether the AI will ever infer it is not conscious. * Perhaps reverse solipsism is true, maybe what I think of as consciousness is just a very pale reflection of the true glorious feeling of consciousness that you and

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-11-24 Thread John Clark
On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 3:14 PM Philip Thrift wrote: > I think one problem for us is as artificial/synthetic intelligence > technology advances: When (if ever) do these entities get "rights"? > There is no point in pondering that because the question is moot. The big unknown is not what rights

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-11-24 Thread Brent Meeker
On 11/24/2018 5:39 AM, John Clark wrote: On Fri, Nov 23, 2018 at 1:10 PM Philip Thrift > wrote: /> Some in AI will say if something is just informationally intelligent (or pseudo-intelligent) but not experientially intelligent then it will not ever

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-11-24 Thread Philip Thrift
On Saturday, November 24, 2018 at 7:40:26 AM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: > > > On Fri, Nov 23, 2018 at 1:10 PM Philip Thrift > wrote: > > *> Some in AI will say if something is just informationally intelligent >> (or pseudo-intelligent) but not experientially intelligent then it will not >> ever

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-11-24 Thread John Clark
On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 11:40 AM Quentin Anciaux wrote: *> Strangely you're not as hard with yourself when you advertise > manyworld... Just show us a parallel universe then... Until you apply to > your own beliefs your own methods, It will just be dismissive BS.* > I can't show you a parallel

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-11-24 Thread Quentin Anciaux
Le sam. 24 nov. 2018 17:28, John Clark a écrit : > On Fri, Nov 23, 2018 at 8:31 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: > > >> > *in a precise context, when doing science/mathematics, it is useful to >> have precise mathematical definition.* >> > > Sure definitions can be useful but they never cause things to

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-11-24 Thread John Clark
On Fri, Nov 23, 2018 at 8:31 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: > > *in a precise context, when doing science/mathematics, it is useful to > have precise mathematical definition.* > Sure definitions can be useful but they never cause things to pop into existence or can tell you anything about the nature

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-11-24 Thread John Clark
On Fri, Nov 23, 2018 at 1:10 PM Philip Thrift wrote: *> Some in AI will say if something is just informationally intelligent (or > pseudo-intelligent) but not experientially intelligent then it will not > ever be remarkably creative - in literature, music, painting, or even > science.* >

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-11-23 Thread Philip Thrift
On Friday, November 23, 2018 at 11:40:23 AM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: > > > > On Fri, Nov 23, 2018 at 12:22 PM Philip Thrift > wrote: > > >> > True intelligence is *experiential intelligence*. >> > > What sort of intelligence do your fellow human beings have? How does true > intelligence

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-11-23 Thread John Clark
On Fri, Nov 23, 2018 at 12:22 PM Philip Thrift wrote: > > True intelligence is *experiential intelligence*. > What sort of intelligence do your fellow human beings have? How does true intelligence behave differently than untrue intelligence? If untrue intelligence can outsmart true

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

2018-11-23 Thread Philip Thrift
On Friday, November 23, 2018 at 6:22:39 AM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: > > > On Fri, Nov 23, 2018 at 2:38 AM Philip Thrift > wrote: > > *> An alternative is that consciousness (or experientiality - in the >> philosophers' jargon) is intrinsic (more jargon) to matter. A change in >> matter would

  1   2   >