Re: [Gimp-developer] The Gimp
Martin Nordholts wrote: sumith pandilwar wrote: hi, thanks for the reply.Will you please help me with understanding the code of The GNU image manipulation program ,the modules etc so that i could understand better and present the project in a better manner Hi I would recommend that you join #gimp on the irc.gnome.org network since that is a better forum to help you get started with the GIMP code. BR, Martin I would also suggest you dip into the recent archives (last October-November) for the thread "Environment Suggestion" ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The Gimp
sumith pandilwar wrote: > hi, > thanks for the reply.Will you please help me with understanding > the code of The GNU image manipulation program ,the modules etc so > that i could understand better and present the project in a better manner Hi I would recommend that you join #gimp on the irc.gnome.org network since that is a better forum to help you get started with the GIMP code. BR, Martin ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The Gimp
hi, thanks for the reply.Will you please help me with understanding the code of The GNU image manipulation program ,the modules etc so that i could understand better and present the project in a better manner On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 10:22 PM, sumith pandilwar < sumith.pandil...@gmail.com> wrote: > by adding support for svg files i would like to add the feature to import > svg file and modify its properties like colour, fade out etc and use it like > a brush.This would be like totally creating a new brush of our own > > On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 6:56 PM, sumith pandilwar < > sumith.pandil...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> This is sumit . >> >> I am ineterested to apply for Gsoc 2009 - the gimp org.In the ideas of >> Gsoc 2008 there was a idea of implementing brushes that could be scaled up >> in a lossless way using svg files as brushes.I have the code of gimp 2.64 >> .So i need help to know what to start with. I will be very much thankful to >> receive some advice. >> > > ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The Gimp
On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 7:52 PM, sumith pandilwar wrote: > by adding support for svg files i would like to add the feature to import > svg file and modify its properties like colour, fade out etc and use it like > a brush.This would be like totally creating a new brush of our own Maybe it could be a 'brush tool rewrite in GEGL' project? I mean, in GEGL you already can load SVG and do things like the ones you listed, and we need to port tools anyway... Alexandre ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The Gimp
by adding support for svg files i would like to add the feature to import svg file and modify its properties like colour, fade out etc and use it like a brush.This would be like totally creating a new brush of our own On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 6:56 PM, sumith pandilwar wrote: > This is sumit . > > I am ineterested to apply for Gsoc 2009 - the gimp org.In the ideas of Gsoc > 2008 there was a idea of implementing brushes that could be scaled up in a > lossless way using svg files as brushes.I have the code of gimp 2.64 .So i > need help to know what to start with. I will be very much thankful to > receive some advice. > ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The Gimp
Hi, first of all, the application is called GNU Image Manipulation Program, or short GIMP, but not "The Gimp". Please try to keep that in mind. On Sun, 2009-03-08 at 18:56 +0530, sumith pandilwar wrote: > I am ineterested to apply for Gsoc 2009 - the gimp org.In the ideas of > Gsoc 2008 there was a idea of implementing brushes that could be > scaled up in a lossless way using svg files as brushes.I have the code > of gimp 2.64 .So i need help to know what to start with. I will be > very much thankful to receive some advice. If you want to work on GIMP, you should check out current trunk from the Subversion repository at svn.gnome.org. The brush transformation code in trunk is quite different from GIMP 2.6 already. It should be very easy to add support for SVG brushes. Perhaps even too easy for a GSoC project. But we would first need to look at this in more detail. Can you give a more detailed description of what you have in mind for your project? Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] The Gimp
This is sumit . I am ineterested to apply for Gsoc 2009 - the gimp org.In the ideas of Gsoc 2008 there was a idea of implementing brushes that could be scaled up in a lossless way using svg files as brushes.I have the code of gimp 2.64 .So i need help to know what to start with. I will be very much thankful to receive some advice. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The Gimp For Mobile phones.
The screen of Motorola A1200i is only 320*400. Do you really think a usefull UI can be built ? The one on gimp-brainstorm blog is designed for 480*640, and itself feels cramped. -- Laxminarayan Kamath Ammembal http://lankerisms.blogspot.com (+91) 9945036093 ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] The Gimp For Mobile phones.
Hellow GIMP! I'm a brazilian, and i use The Gimp 2.4, i love this program, i am a win user, and i want to know if is possible to creat a "Gimp Mobile Edition" (or something like that), i have the cellphone "motorola a1200i" (Motoming), and i want to install the gimp, but it doesn't exists. I don't know anything about progamming, so i'm looking for someway to use this amazing program in my cellphone (touch screen). Already have a Mobile Gimp, but it is only for plugs USB mode(pen drives, mp3 etc..), motoming is a touch screen mobile, so i woud like to use this amazing program in my phone, just an adaptation will be great. Thanks very much... for everything!!! The OS of motoming is Linux, based in Kernel 2.4 For more information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOTOMING (Sorry about my english, but i'm still a student) _ Confira vídeos com notícias do NY Times, gols direto do Lance, videocassetadas e muito mais no MSN Video! http://video.msn.com/?mkt=pt-br___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP
Hi, On Thu, 2006-12-07 at 10:54 +0100, Michael Natterer wrote: > What about: > > /* GIMP - The GNU Image Manipulation Program */ I'll go with that version then and do the change. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP
On Thursday 07 December 2006 07:54 am, Michael Natterer wrote:
> On Wed, 2006-12-06 at 22:06 +0100, Sven Neumann wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'd like to do the following change to the comment at the top of
> > all source files in the GIMP tree:
> >
> > -/* The GIMP -- an image manipulation program
> > +/* GNU Image Manipulation Program
>
> I agree that old line sounds stupid ("an"), but why remove "GIMP"
> entirely?
>
> What about:
>
> /* GIMP - The GNU Image Manipulation Program */
I'd also prefer this way!
>
>
> ciao,
> --mitch
>
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Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP
On Wed, 2006-12-06 at 22:06 +0100, Sven Neumann wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'd like to do the following change to the comment at the top of all
> source files in the GIMP tree:
>
> -/* The GIMP -- an image manipulation program
> +/* GNU Image Manipulation Program
I agree that old line sounds stupid ("an"), but why remove "GIMP"
entirely?
What about:
/* GIMP - The GNU Image Manipulation Program */
ciao,
--mitch
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Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP
On 12/6/06, Sven Neumann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > > I'd like to do the following change to the comment at the top of all > source files in the GIMP tree: > > -/* The GIMP -- an image manipulation program > +/* GNU Image Manipulation Program > > Any objections? No objections personally, but if I recall correctly, the new comment violates some inconsenquential part of the GNU coding standards, if we care about them. Rockwalrus ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP
On Wed, Dec 06, 2006 at 10:06:07PM +0100, Sven Neumann wrote: > Hi, > > I'd like to do the following change to the comment at the top of all > source files in the GIMP tree: > > -/* The GIMP -- an image manipulation program > +/* GNU Image Manipulation Program > > Any objections? How about /*--G nu--I mage--M anipulation--P rogram-- Just a thought Scott. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] The GIMP
Hi, I'd like to do the following change to the comment at the top of all source files in the GIMP tree: -/* The GIMP -- an image manipulation program +/* GNU Image Manipulation Program Any objections? Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] The GIMP 2.2.8 for OS/2
Some of you might still remember - or maybe even use - the operating system of the future that was supposed to free the world from such things as DOS or Microsoft Windows 3.x. Despite being a stable and technologically advanced platform, it didn't succeed - partly because of its equally advanced hardware requirements (8 megs of RAM was much in those days), partly because one of its creators turned against it. Today, it's user base is mainly loclizced in certain parts of the finance and touristic commerces, and only a few boxes remained with individuals. And with IBM having announced "End of support" for 2006, the number of OS/2 systems will most likely go down even further. In this tragical situation, it is a good thing that some individuals keep up the spirit of Free Software and provide current applications for a platform that is now considered "exotic" at best. For a long time, GIMP 1.2.2 was the latest version of GIMP available for OS/2. Now, in once amazing quantum leap, this has changed - the current stable version of GIMP for OS/2 is 2.2.8 - yes, like the current stable version on the other platforms. Prebuilt binaries are available from http://hobbes.nmsu.edu/cgi-bin/h-search?key=gimp&pushbutton=Search There are also the libs that are required (GTK+, Glib etc...) and a XFree86 package. Kudos to Frank Geissler and Ralph Hannes, for preparing the builds and posting to a german OS/2 newsgroup respecively, where the article caught my eye. Michael -- The GIMP > http://www.gimp.org | IRC: irc://irc.gimp.org/gimp Wiki > http://wiki.gimp.org | .de: http://www.gimpforum.de Plug-ins > http://registry.gimp.org | ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP at 21C3
On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 08:36:53 -0200, Joao S. O. Bueno Calligaris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Friday 26 November 2004 05:02, Laxminarayan Kamath wrote: > > > Hey, i sent a message previously , it dint come on the list, > > resending- There is a huge Linux/OSS fest/fair/expo about to happen > > in Bangalore- The IT capital of India on Decmber 1,2,3 . Wish GIMP > > was there. if u cant come , please at least try next time . > > Checkout > > linux-bangalore.org/2004 for more details > > Huh? > How there "if u cant come"? Do you think The GIMP is Oracle or Novell > or something? If you want GIMP people to go, you should at least send > formal invitations, and if you want that they'd show up, these > invitations better come with the transportation and hosting fees > paid. > I understand that you shall be an individual person, and probable > can't afford for it alone - but them you could try to get the > sponsorship for it with a corporation, and get them to contact the > developers. > Regards, > JS > -><- OH! sorry, forgive me for informal invitations. It is a completely community driven event. So I had thought I would just popularise it . Remember - This was completely my decision. The official managers are not even of the knowledge of this invitation. Rather , this was not at all an invitation. This was a friend saying "HEY ! There is a Bond movie going on in that theatre and I am going. Just wanted you to know. It is a very good , must see movie" . Thats all. ( Apologizes again,) Laxminarayan Kamath Ammembal MithraKoota, Bhoja Rao Lane, Mangalore 575003 (+91) 9845 061385 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.geocities.com/kamathln ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP at 21C3
On Friday 26 November 2004 05:02, Laxminarayan Kamath wrote: > Hey, i sent a message previously , it dint come on the list, > resending- There is a huge Linux/OSS fest/fair/expo about to happen > in Bangalore- The IT capital of India on Decmber 1,2,3 . Wish GIMP > was there. if u cant come , please at least try next time . > Checkout > linux-bangalore.org/2004 for more details Huh? How there "if u cant come"? Do you think The GIMP is Oracle or Novell or something? If you want GIMP people to go, you should at least send formal invitations, and if you want that they'd show up, these invitations better come with the transportation and hosting fees paid. I understand that you shall be an individual person, and probable can't afford for it alone - but them you could try to get the sponsorship for it with a corporation, and get them to contact the developers. Regards, JS -><- ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP at 21C3
On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 21:54:32 +0100, Sven Neumann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > > I would like to let everyone know that we will have a small GIMP > gathering at 21C3, the 21st annual Chaos Communication Congress, and > you are all invited to join us. So far we haven't planned anything in > particular and we definitely don't want to make this a GIMP developer > conference. If a number of GIMP people show up, we can have a workshop > and we will definitely find time for some GIMP hacking (and perhaps > some GEGL hacking as well). If you want to join the GIMP crew at the > congress, please send me mail. > > Here's some more info about the congress: > > 21C3: The Usual Suspects > 21st Chaos Communication Congress > The European Hacker Conference > > Dezember 27/28/29, 2004 > bcc - berliner congress center > Alexanderplatz, Berlin-Mitte > http://www.ccc.de/congress/2004/ > > It's time to round up for the usual date at the end of the year for > the 21st annual Chaos Communication Congress. In order to make this > event even bigger and noticably better, the 21C3 sports a hack > centre that has been clearly improved in terms of size and > infrastructure compared to last year, a new Art & Beauty area and > many other small, but important details. As in the years before, we > estimate to attract about 2,500 visitors from all over the world. We > plan to meet the demands of our increased international audience > through more talks in English by international speakers. > > Under the motto The Usual Suspects we call upon all hackers of the > world to give presentations and attend discussions on current > technological insights, new aspects in research and the > sociopolitical impact of applied modern technology. Three daily > conference tracks with around 100 talks and workshops will cater for > a broad variety of topics. > > Please visit the web-site at http://www.ccc.de/congress/2004/ and if > you want to get the latest news on the congress, subsribe to the 21C3 > weblog at http://21c3.ccc.de/weblog/2004/. > > Sven > ___ > Gimp-developer mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer > Hey, i sent a message previously , it dint come on the list, resending- There is a huge Linux/OSS fest/fair/expo about to happen in Bangalore- The IT capital of India on Decmber 1,2,3 . Wish GIMP was there. if u cant come , please at least try next time . Checkout linux-bangalore.org/2004 for more details -- Laxminarayan Kamath Ammembal MithraKoota, Bhoja Rao Lane, Mangalore 575003 (+91) 9845 061385 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.geocities.com/kamathln ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] The GIMP at 21C3
Hi, I would like to let everyone know that we will have a small GIMP gathering at 21C3, the 21st annual Chaos Communication Congress, and you are all invited to join us. So far we haven't planned anything in particular and we definitely don't want to make this a GIMP developer conference. If a number of GIMP people show up, we can have a workshop and we will definitely find time for some GIMP hacking (and perhaps some GEGL hacking as well). If you want to join the GIMP crew at the congress, please send me mail. Here's some more info about the congress: 21C3: The Usual Suspects 21st Chaos Communication Congress The European Hacker Conference Dezember 27/28/29, 2004 bcc - berliner congress center Alexanderplatz, Berlin-Mitte http://www.ccc.de/congress/2004/ It's time to round up for the usual date at the end of the year for the 21st annual Chaos Communication Congress. In order to make this event even bigger and noticably better, the 21C3 sports a hack centre that has been clearly improved in terms of size and infrastructure compared to last year, a new Art & Beauty area and many other small, but important details. As in the years before, we estimate to attract about 2,500 visitors from all over the world. We plan to meet the demands of our increased international audience through more talks in English by international speakers. Under the motto The Usual Suspects we call upon all hackers of the world to give presentations and attend discussions on current technological insights, new aspects in research and the sociopolitical impact of applied modern technology. Three daily conference tracks with around 100 talks and workshops will cater for a broad variety of topics. Please visit the web-site at http://www.ccc.de/congress/2004/ and if you want to get the latest news on the congress, subsribe to the 21C3 weblog at http://21c3.ccc.de/weblog/2004/. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] the GIMP help system, i18n and other problems
On Mar 12, 2004, at 1:59 pm, Sven Neumann wrote:
What I dislike about this is that the base for the references in the
XML files is not the directory the XML file is located in. So
there's some special knowledge needed to interpret the references.
I suggest this structure intead:
${gimpprefix}/help/en/gimp-help.xml
${gimpprefix}/help/en/index.html
${gimpprefix}/help/fr/gimp-help.xml
${gimpprefix}/help/fr/index.html
Of course the gimp-help.xml file could also use absolute URLs so the
help files don't absolutely need to be in the same directory and
might even be online on some web-server.
This makes a whole lot more sense. I like it.
Servus,
Daniel
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Re: [Gimp-developer] the GIMP help system, i18n and other problems
Sorry, my mta was a bit messed up lately, so the most of this was discussed before i got it. On Fri, Mar 12, 2004 at 01:59:16PM +0100, Sven Neumann wrote: > Hi, > > > > (b) Extend the gimp-help.xml format to allow to specify a fallback > > URL that should be used when no other mapping is given. > > > We will go for the (b) here. I'm fine with that. Adding an url for every id looks for me to much work. > > (2) How do we handle internationalisation? > > This isn't completely clear yet. I'll list the open issues: > > [... details] > > These are all rather small changes that are easy to implement but we > should better do them now. So if there's consensus on this, I would > like to see this being implemented over the weekend. > Well, only i can do is agree with the proposals and discussions. There is nothing what i can add here. Thanks for implementing this for 2.0 release! Greetings, -- Roman Joost www: http://www.romanofski.de email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [Gimp-developer] the GIMP help system, i18n and other problems
Hi,
I had some discussions with Daniel Egger on this subject and would
like to tell you what we decided to do and what is still unclear.
Nothing is set in stone yet and comments would be very much
appreciated...
> (1) What should happen when an ID cannot be mapped to an URL? At the
> moment we open a dialog to inform the user that the help-id is
> unknown. That's pretty confusing for the casual user and I think
> we can agree that this should not happen.
>
> I can think of two solutions for this problem:
>
> (a) Make sure that gimp-help-2 provides URLs for all IDs. Not
> necessarily unique URLs. All IDs for that no help exists could
> point to the same URL.
>
> (b) Extend the gimp-help.xml format to allow to specify a fallback
> URL that should be used when no other mapping is given.
>
> The second solution seems to make more sense since it's easy to
> miss an ID and we might want to add more IDs at any time.
We will go for the (b) here. It gives most flexibility since the help
authors can decide whether they want to provide a single "Help is
missing" document or would prefer to provide pages that say "Help for
has not been written yet."
This makes it necessary to extend the gimp-help.xml format. My
proposal is to add the following line:
If someone can come up with a better name, I'm love to hear about it.
> (2) How do we handle internationalisation?
This isn't completely clear yet. I'll list the open issues:
- The "C" directory should probably be renamed "en". But then, "en_US"
would probably be more correct but it makes things a good deal more
complex.
- Should "en" be used as a fallback when say "fr" doesn't provide help
for a specific topic? Daniel suggested to make this a preference
option. Ideally, there would be a way to specify a prioritized list
of languages but that's clearly something for 2.2. So what can do we
for 2.0? We might want to add a preference toggle "Use english help
as a fallback.".
- I had a look at the way that gimp-help-2 installs the gimp-help.xml
files. We might want to reconsider that. At the moment this is how
it looks like:
${gimpprefix}/help/gimp-help.xml
${gimpprefix}/help/gimp-help.fr.xml
The actual help files are then in directories like this:
${gimpprefix}/help/C/index.html
${gimpprefix}/help/fr/index.html
What I dislike about this is that the base for the references in the
XML files is not the directory the XML file is located in. So
there's some special knowledge needed to interpret the references.
I suggest this structure intead:
${gimpprefix}/help/en/gimp-help.xml
${gimpprefix}/help/en/index.html
${gimpprefix}/help/fr/gimp-help.xml
${gimpprefix}/help/fr/index.html
Of course the gimp-help.xml file could also use absolute URLs so the
help files don't absolutely need to be in the same directory and
might even be online on some web-server.
These are all rather small changes that are easy to implement but we
should better do them now. So if there's consensus on this, I would
like to see this being implemented over the weekend.
Sven
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[Gimp-developer] the GIMP help system, i18n and other problems
Hi, I mentioned i18n and the help system in an earlier mail today but it probably makes sense to go into some detail. I've added the help authors to the Cc: because of course this affects their work and their advice would be very helpful here... First, a short summary of how things work at the moment: In GIMP we added help IDs to all dialogs, all menu entries and some more GUI elements. They are all defined in app/widgets/gimphelp-ids.h, so here we have a complete list of all IDs. Now, if the user presses F1 in a dialog or with the mouse hovering over a menu entry, or she uses Shift-F1 to examine user interface elements like for example a button in the toolbox, the following happens: GIMP looks at the gimprc value "use-help". In case it is set to "no", things stop right here. If help is enabled, the help extension (a plug-in) is started. It is passed a list of all help domains that plug-ins might have registered on startup. This only happens on the first help request, the extension will keep running from now on. Now that the extension is running, a request for the selected help ID is sent to it, together with an identifier for the help domain and a language identifier. At the moment the language identifier is always 'C'. The help extension now parses the XML file for the requested help domain. This file maps help IDs to URLs. The file is parsed on the first help request for a particular help domain. Since the help extension keeps running, it will know the mapping table the next time help is needed from the given help domain. If the given help ID can be mapped to an URL, the help extension calls either the helpbrowser or the webbrowser plug-in with that URL. Which plug-in is called depends on the gimprc setting for "help-browser". The helpbrowser plug-in is basically just a simple HTML browser and offers the same API as the webbrowser plug-in. It takes an URL and displays it. OK, so far so good... Now here are the open points: (1) What should happen when an ID cannot be mapped to an URL? At the moment we open a dialog to inform the user that the help-id is unknown. That's pretty confusing for the casual user and I think we can agree that this should not happen. I can think of two solutions for this problem: (a) Make sure that gimp-help-2 provides URLs for all IDs. Not necessarily unique URLs. All IDs for that no help exists could point to the same URL. (b) Extend the gimp-help.xml format to allow to specify a fallback URL that should be used when no other mapping is given. The second solution seems to make more sense since it's easy to miss an ID and we might want to add more IDs at any time. (2) How do we handle internationalisation? Since there are help translations already, we should think about how we want to use them. At the moment, for each language, a gimp-help.xml mapping file is installed. I think this is good and doesn't need to be changed. But there are some implementation details that are not clear to me yet. Let's use an example. Please note that everything below is hypothetic since there is no code in the help system for handling languages yet (the help content on the other hand does exist): Our GIMP user is french and runs gimp with LANG=fr_FR. So "fr_FR" is what gets passed to the help extension. It will check if help exists for "fr_FR" and will detect that this is not the case. It should then strip "_FR" from the language identifier and will find that there's help for "fr". It parses the mapping table and attempts to map the requested help ID to an URL. If it finds one, good, call the browser to display it and the job is done. Now what is supposed to happen if there's no french help written for this ID? Again I can imagine two possible solutions. Both are however based on the assumption that we decide for (1b). (a) Use the fallback URL from the mapping file. This would probably point to a french page that explains that no help exists for this topic yet and that invites the user to join the gimp-help team and write it. (b) Try to get help from the 'C' branch of gimp-help-2. There might exist english help for this topic and we could show the user the english help page. In case there's also no english help, it would probably be best to do what I suggested in (a) and in case there's no fallback URL for the french version, as a last resort use the fallback URL for C. I am undecided here. Since I speak english quite well, I would of course prefer to get english help if no german help is available. But what about the casual user? Should we present english help to her or would it be better to say, sorry, there's no help written in your language? If we decide for (a) here, we would have to add some simple rules that assure that users running gimp with L
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Foundation
Nathan Carl Summers wrote: Is this required to be in person, or is conference call/irc/email/etc sufficient? Furthermore, is it possible for board members to be reimbursed for expenses? I can see this being a major obstacle for non-us residents otherwise. Kelly already answered the first part, but yes. If TGF has money, it's board members can be reimbursed for the expenses of attending a meeting (including phone bills, even), without destroying it's non-profit status. -- Dan ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Foundation
On Mon, 8 Mar 2004, Kelly Martin wrote: > Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 23:09:51 -0600 > From: Kelly Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Sven Neumann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: Nathan Carl Summers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Foundation > > Sven Neumann wrote: > > > If sueing copyright violators is the main goal, I'd rather let the > > Free Software Foundation do this job. It is probably in a lot better > > position when it should ever come to a law-suit. > > The FSF can't sue someone unless it owns at least some part of the code in > question. The FSF's solution to this has been to seek assignment of copyright. > Do you want to assign the GIMP copyrights to the FSF? I can tell you that although the FSF much prefer to have some ownership of the code it is not an absolute necessity and that as it is in their interest to defend the GPL they have been very helpful to projects that did not fall directly under their banner. Just ask Bradley Kunh. Sincerely Alan Horkan http://advogato.org/person/AlanHorkan/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-user] Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Foundation
Hi all, Sven Neumann wrote: Also, so far the FSF has done a great job at funding our developer conferences. So we should really have good reasons to form our own foundation since I don't expect the FSF to grant any more fundings as soon as The GIMP Foundation has been created. This is not a vote against the TGF; it's just something to keep in mind... I don't see why this should be the case, unless we have a sufficient revenu stream to fund ourselves. In any case, to have any revenu at all we need an organisation and a bank account, since a private individual accepting donations for a non-existent organisation isn't very professional or reassuring, never mind the fact that it opens up, as Dan said, channels of liability for the individual involved. Cheers, Dave. -- Dave Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Foundation
On 8 Mar 2004, at 23:09, Kelly Martin wrote: > Sven Neumann wrote: > > > If sueing copyright violators is the main goal, I'd rather let the > > Free Software Foundation do this job. It is probably in a lot better > > position when it should ever come to a law-suit. > > The FSF can't sue someone unless it owns at least some part of the > code in question. The FSF's solution to this has been to seek > assignment of copyright. > Do you want to assign the GIMP copyrights to the FSF? Sven cannot assign _all_ GIMP copyrights to the FSF, since he does not own them. He can, however, assign _his_ copyrights to the FSF (as can anybody else, for that matter). (This is undoubtedly what you meant, I am just stressing it to clarify.) -- branko collin [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Foundation
Hello, First of all I'd like to thank Daniel for putting a lot of work into investigating what needs to be done in order to launch The GIMP Foundation. On Mon, 2004-03-08 at 15:58, Daniel Rogers wrote: > THINGS TO BE DECIDED [snip] > 1. Will TGF have members? I am talking about members with voting > privledges, like I described above. (my vote is yes, btw) Yes, if we decide to form TGF I believe we should allow the foundation to have members. > 2. Should the membership be paid? (my vote is yes, for like $50 a > year or some toher small amount. It helps for tax purposes). How does paid membership help for tax purposes? What exactly will the benefit of paid membership be? > 3. Should the membership have additional rights? Such as...? Sincerely, Brix -- Henrik Brix Andersen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Foundation
Sven Neumann wrote: If sueing copyright violators is the main goal, I'd rather let the Free Software Foundation do this job. It is probably in a lot better position when it should ever come to a law-suit. The FSF can't sue someone unless it owns at least some part of the code in question. The FSF's solution to this has been to seek assignment of copyright. Do you want to assign the GIMP copyrights to the FSF? Kelly ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Foundation
On 8 Mar 2004, Sven Neumann wrote: > Hi, > > Nathan Carl Summers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > In my mind one of the major reasons to have a Gimp Foundation is to put > > all of our IP ducks in a row. As I've said before I don't think that > > having contributors sign over copyright to TGF would be the best plan. > > Instead, I would like to see the ability to give TGF power-of-attorney to > > sue copyright violators in their behalf. > > Does IP mean what I think it means? Let's hope it doesn't because > there simply is no such thing as intellectual property. Knowledge must > not belong to anyone. I believe that intellectual property is a natural right, but should be limited in scope for the same kind of reasons that you are not allowed to invite someone onto your property and then kill them, even though you own the weapon and the land. More specifically, I think that the number of years copyrights last should be counted on one hand, and that if you have access to software, you should have access to its source. I could go on with more detail about my views about copyrights and patents, but that is really offtopic for this list. I agree with RMS that lumping several somewhat dissimilar aspects of law together under the same title can lead to confusion, but in this case, it causes no confusion, since the gimp foundation should indeed hold all gimp related copyrights, trademarks, and patents. GIMP can't have trade secrets, obviously. And a service mark might be more appropriate than a trademark; i dunno. Having a patent or two for protection might be pragmatic, even though I think that software patents are stupid. > If sueing copyright violators is the main goal, I'd rather let the > Free Software Foundation do this job. It is probably in a lot better > position when it should ever come to a law-suit. Well, the FSF cannot sue unless it has copyright assignment from us, and I don't think we can really do a credible job unless it gets assignment at least from Spencer, Peter, Sven, and Mitch. (All other substantial contributors are also listed here, your eyes just skip over them every time you read the list :) > Also, so far the FSF has done a great job at funding our developer > conferences. So we should really have good reasons to form our own > foundation since I don't expect the FSF to grant any more fundings as > soon as The GIMP Foundation has been created. This is not a vote against > the TGF; it's just something to keep in mind... Perhaps we should bring the FSF into the discussion. We are, after all, an official GNU project, even though FSF gives us complete autonomy. Rockwalrus ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Foundation
Hi, Nathan Carl Summers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > In my mind one of the major reasons to have a Gimp Foundation is to put > all of our IP ducks in a row. As I've said before I don't think that > having contributors sign over copyright to TGF would be the best plan. > Instead, I would like to see the ability to give TGF power-of-attorney to > sue copyright violators in their behalf. Does IP mean what I think it means? Let's hope it doesn't because there simply is no such thing as intellectual property. Knowledge must not belong to anyone. If sueing copyright violators is the main goal, I'd rather let the Free Software Foundation do this job. It is probably in a lot better position when it should ever come to a law-suit. Also, so far the FSF has done a great job at funding our developer conferences. So we should really have good reasons to form our own foundation since I don't expect the FSF to grant any more fundings as soon as The GIMP Foundation has been created. This is not a vote against the TGF; it's just something to keep in mind... Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Foundation
Nathan Carl Summers wrote: If you are a board member you must: Attend board meetings. Is this required to be in person, or is conference call/irc/email/etc sufficient? Furthermore, is it possible for board members to be reimbursed for expenses? I can see this being a major obstacle for non-us residents otherwise. Most states require that such meetings take place "so that all present may hear one another". This permits conference calls, but excludes IRC and email. Instead, I would like to see the ability to give TGF power-of-attorney to sue copyright violators in their behalf. That's a touchy area. Copyright law in the United States requires that a suit to enforce copyright be brought "in the name of the party in interest". (The RIAA is running into problems with this because they're not the "party in interest" of any of the copyrights they're suing on.) There really isn't a good way around the assignment issue. Kelly ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Foundation
On Mon, 8 Mar 2004, Daniel Rogers wrote: > Hello again, > > It has been awhile since I have done a GIMP Foundation update. There > is quite a bit that must be decided on at this point. Also, people need > to decide how invovled they would like to be. > > My goals for The GIMP really boil down to three things. First, I really > want to see The GIMP to be a household name for professional image > editors. Second, I want to the GIMP as easy as possible for volunteers > to contribute to. Third, I want to be able to turn The GIMP into a > real, paid, career for a team of people, including myself. I would add usability for all and ease-of-getting started for new and casual users to the list of gimp goals. > If you are a board member you must: > Attend board meetings. Is this required to be in person, or is conference call/irc/email/etc sufficient? Furthermore, is it possible for board members to be reimbursed for expenses? I can see this being a major obstacle for non-us residents otherwise. > WHAT THE ORGANIZATION CAN DO > > Here are a few of the things, that given the oppurtunity and funds I > would like to do with TGF. In my mind one of the major reasons to have a Gimp Foundation is to put all of our IP ducks in a row. As I've said before I don't think that having contributors sign over copyright to TGF would be the best plan. Instead, I would like to see the ability to give TGF power-of-attorney to sue copyright violators in their behalf. Rockwalrus ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] The GIMP Foundation
Hello again, It has been awhile since I have done a GIMP Foundation update. There is quite a bit that must be decided on at this point. Also, people need to decide how invovled they would like to be. Summary: My Goals, Benefits of incorporation responsibilites of those invovled things to be decided looking for help What the organization can do MY GOALS First off, let me go over several of my personal goals for The GIMP and then I will try and show now TGF can be used to develop these goals. My goals for The GIMP really boil down to three things. First, I really want to see The GIMP to be a household name for professional image editors. Second, I want to the GIMP as easy as possible for volunteers to contribute to. Third, I want to be able to turn The GIMP into a real, paid, career for a team of people, including myself. As such I have been trying to further these goals by creating TGF, soliciting funding, and trying to come up with ways of using that funding to further these goals. Let me make perfectly clear that my important priority is to make sure that our existing volunteer developers are, in no way, givin any additional responsibilites or risks that he/she did not ask for. I do not want (nor do I think it is possible) to try and "control" or "be in charge" of our existing volunteer developers. No one, though my actions or those of The GIMP Foundation, will be required to perform any duties, or have any additional responsibities placed on them without his/her consent. What I want is to create an organization that can handle many of the details that do not interest a casual (or even not-so-casual) volunteer. There are quite a few things that could be done to increase the popularity of The GIMP that could be done easier under the organization of TGF. Marketing, making contacts, hiring employees, solicting donations, etc. are all difficult and valuable activities that could benefit all the developers, including the volunteer ones. I want to put in place means to increase oppurtunites for all of our developers. Increasing our userbase, attracting developers, attracting corporations interested in The GIMP will undoubtably lead to more and better opportunites for existing developers. BENEFITS OF INCORPORATION Presumably, I could handle all of these things myself, without creating a legal entity to do so. However, the existance of The GIMP Foundation has several legal benefits: 1) The GIMP Foundation can enter into contracts and acquire loans and, as long as the Directors act in Good Faith (and follow some fairly simple rules) cannot be held liable for any actions of TGF. This means that if TGF enters into a contract with a corporation (such as accepting a donation to finish a certain feature in The GIMP) and 50% of the way though the feature the corporation decides they want their money back, the individual directors and members hold no personal responsibility to pay back that corporation. 2) TGF can offer tax deductable donations. 3) We become qualified for Federal, state, and private grants. The first provision above is probably the most important. It means that if you follow the rules, there is no risk (other than the time you put into the organization) to running it. It also means that TGF can enter into contracts with people like Mark Shuttleworth and the individual members, directors and officers are not at risk of losing any personal funds. RESPONSIBILITES OF THOSE INVOVLED Non-profits have to have certain organizational structers. There must be a board of directors. The board has the power to enter into major business dealings, decides what to do with assets, and has to the power to hire officers. The officers handle the day to day business of the corporation. However, being invovled with The GIMP Foundation means you will be held to certain responsibilities. If you are a board member you must: Attend board meetings. Vote on specific issues. Avoid conflict of interest. Avoid self-dealing. Be honest. Be careful with the funds of the Foundation. fufill any other specific duties outlined in the bylaws. Board members have the power to: Enter into contracts in the name of TGF. make finantial decisions about the future of The GIMP. hire officers. Officers are empowered to handle the day to day decisions of the board. They are not normally empowered to enter into major business dealings, and the board is responsible for their actions. They must also fufill any responsibilites outlined in the bylaws. In addition, 51% of the board members have to be disinterested. (this means they or anyone related to them cannot be compensated by TGF for other than as a director). I.e. 51% of board members have to be volunteer. Also there are no residency or age requirements on any of these positions. (though the board members should be at least 18 so that they have the ability to enter into contracts). A non-profit may or may not have members. Members (in the legal sense) have specific voting ri
[Gimp-developer] The Gimp Foundation news
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi- So I am almost ready to incorporate The Gimp Foundation. Here are the relevent bits at the moment. It takes 6 to 9 months after I recieve my articles of incorporation (which takes about a month) to acquire 501(c)3 status. Until then, I can operate the corporation, but money we recieve will not be tax deductable (which only matters for people inside the US). If tax-deductable donations are really important right away, we could get another organization to recieve donations, which they then give to us. This is what The Mozilla Foundation is doing at the moment. At least half the board of directors must be "disinterested." One is disiterested if he/she is not being directly compensated by the corporation. This means I can be the sole member of the Board, if necessary (but I am by no means suggesting that I should be the only member of the board). There must be at least two officers. In particular, the president cannot be the same person as the secretary and treasurer. (i.e, the president cannot both be the person in charge, and the person who records the minutes of the board meetings or the person who controls the money). One can both be a board member and an officer. Bylaws that define more specific rules about how the corporation will be run, need to be written. This includes things like costs of membership, benefits of membership, defining officers and they responsibilities, defining voting rules. Defining, more specificly, the purposes and goals of the organization, and defining how the bylaws can be changed. I am still in the process of finding out how invovled non-usians can be in a US corporation. - -- Dan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/0gqSad4P1+ZAZk0RAkn+AJ9X9UZoXZyYJEl5fctu1Yj2GOVT/gCfW5Fj YxAqtbstOU24ly3KdCvVK2E= =wAv5 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The Gimp Foundation
Also, I fear my first email may have been a bit to rambling to be able to actually get my point across. What I am hoping to discover by encourging this conversation is what ways people would like to help with TGF and in what ways people would like to see TGF help them. I would also like to get any questions about TGF role, my role, and anyone elses potential role answered as completely as possible. Sticky legal questions, if posed soon enough will be something I can pass onto my lawyer. I want to get people as excited as I am about the potential that TGF has to help the GIMP. -- Dan [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The Gimp Foundation
Carol Spears wrote: When I looked into this sometime back, I watched the gnome foundation elections on the irc. This is probably not the best view of a foundation, however, I really wanted nothing to do with it. We don't need to structure our Foundation (or even have membership) if we don't want to. Further we can have our own rules for determining membership that may or may not have anything to do with democracy. It seems like if there is money available to aid with TheGIMP, the easier it is for the people to contact the person most involved with this area -- then the decision can be made by the person who is to do the task or what have you. I am not following what you mean here. Are you suggesting that the people most invovled in the project decide who or what gets funded? If you develop TheGIMP right now, and you get offered some money, it is difficult to give any of it back. Having a place and an easy interface to deposit money would be nice I think, and good therapy for any who received more than they gave (deep down everyone knows). Everyone knows what? Yea making it easy to provide donations would be cool. I am not certain if I am making sense (again); but no matter what is going on and all the evidence against this belief, I tend to believe more in individuals and their conscience than in "organizations". People can get and install gimp on their own. Selling a distribution is sort of like preying on the ignorant. This has happened to me, and I didn't like it. I don't want to pray on the ignorant. Selling cds would be clearly marked as a fundraiser (and probably priced as such). However, is should be possible to inform people of the fact that The Gimp is free and you don't need to buy it. -- Dan ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The Gimp Foundation
Daniel Rogers wrote: > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > < address, I won't get the message>> > > As was discussed at Gimp Con 2003 (and before, frankly) I am in the > process of incorporating "The GIMP Foundation" as a non-profit > organization devoted to supporting the gimp. > > As this point, nothing (including the name) is set in stone. I have a > legal clinic doing some research to help inform me about how to form the > corporation and my (and its) legal responsibilities. This service is > free, but limited. I will need to seek the advice of some other > attorney (of which I have a list of about two potentially helpful > lawyers) to anything TGF needs in the future. > > What I am working on, though, is what to do with TGF. What I want from > everyone else is two things: ideas about what to do with TGF and > questions anyone may have about TGF. I want make sure that these things > have time get discussed with the lawyer and to try to help keep our > community more informed of these matters. > > So please, if anyone has any questions about how TGF will work and what > you would like to see it do, send them to me. I will work on providing > answers. > > Here are some of the ideas I am currently mulling over regarding TGF: > > Selling t-shirts, coffee cups, lapel pins, posters, etc. > Selling printed manuals. When I looked into this sometime back, I watched the gnome foundation elections on the irc. This is probably not the best view of a foundation, however, I really wanted nothing to do with it. It seems like if there is money available to aid with TheGIMP, the easier it is for the people to contact the person most involved with this area -- then the decision can be made by the person who is to do the task or what have you. I understand that this is a dangerous practice; however there are other dangers in other practices as well. I am trying to bring the gimp authors more to the foreground (which is at the core of my problem with docbook, the author credit is so far nested into the information and xslt is still such a challenge) and I guess I would rather trust each individuals ability to determine what should go to gimp and what should stay with them. If you develop TheGIMP right now, and you get offered some money, it is difficult to give any of it back. Having a place and an easy interface to deposit money would be nice I think, and good therapy for any who received more than they gave (deep down everyone knows). I would like to buy some teeshirts, however. Any maybe if there is a particularly popular teeshirt design, we can put it into a more official copyleft sort of production. I am not certain if I am making sense (again); but no matter what is going on and all the evidence against this belief, I tend to believe more in individuals and their conscience than in "organizations". People can get and install gimp on their own. Selling a distribution is sort of like preying on the ignorant. This has happened to me, and I didn't like it. carol ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] The Gimp Foundation
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 <> As was discussed at Gimp Con 2003 (and before, frankly) I am in the process of incorporating "The GIMP Foundation" as a non-profit organization devoted to supporting the gimp. As this point, nothing (including the name) is set in stone. I have a legal clinic doing some research to help inform me about how to form the corporation and my (and its) legal responsibilities. This service is free, but limited. I will need to seek the advice of some other attorney (of which I have a list of about two potentially helpful lawyers) to anything TGF needs in the future. What I am working on, though, is what to do with TGF. What I want from everyone else is two things: ideas about what to do with TGF and questions anyone may have about TGF. I want make sure that these things have time get discussed with the lawyer and to try to help keep our community more informed of these matters. So please, if anyone has any questions about how TGF will work and what you would like to see it do, send them to me. I will work on providing answers. Here are some of the ideas I am currently mulling over regarding TGF: Selling t-shirts, coffee cups, lapel pins, posters, etc. Selling printed manuals. Selling GPL complient binary and source disributions on cd. Selling and paying people to go train and give presentations on the GIMP. Public and private grants. (someone (like me) will need to apply for these) Tax deductable donations. buying hardware (computers, tablets, scanners, colorimeters). full color magazine ads free training sessions office space accounting legal expenses staff paying programmers, web designers, tech writers constructing a build farm (this would help both developers and in making a cd distribution). Also, if anyone would like to me more directly involved with TGF, just email me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] and let me know how. I am sure we can find a role you'd be happy with. - -- Dan [EMAIL PROTECTED] PS. TGF will need a webpage. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/iS9xad4P1+ZAZk0RAj5zAKCTAT6PArDh8KXhP5x/niC1hGg4qgCeOt+B Foua9HwhWcGI4kgnxgor9no= =i6OI -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP depends on Libart now.
Leonard Rosenthol ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > At 03:24 PM 3/7/2002 +0100, Simon Budig wrote: > >The GIMP now depends on Libart, > > Which libart source tree are you using? They are NOT all in sync > and many have some long standing (and pretty egregious) bugs... I used libart-2.0 and tested the stuff with the code from libart_lgpl CVS-HEAD (Version 2.3.8 +). Since we currently just use very few functions I don't think that we really need the very latest version. Bye, Simon -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.home.unix-ag.org/simon/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP depends on Libart now.
Hi, Simon Budig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I yesterday introduced a new dependency on CVS Head. > > The GIMP now depends on Libart, a library for rendering high quality > vector artwork. Currently it is just used for the conversion of a > path to a selection, but we also plan to use it for some stroking > operations. > > Libart is plain C and does not depend on Gnome (but Gnome uses it too). > IIRC it is also available for Windows. you can check out libart2 from GNOME CVS as module libart_lgpl or fetch a tarball from ftp://ftp.gnome.org/pub/gnome/pre-gnome2/sources/libart_lgpl/ I'm not sure which version we actually depend on. The latest released version (2.3.8) should do the trick, older version might also work. Please let us know if you find a version that is too old so we can add an appropriate version check. Salut, Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] The GIMP depends on Libart now.
Hi all. I yesterday introduced a new dependency on CVS Head. The GIMP now depends on Libart, a library for rendering high quality vector artwork. Currently it is just used for the conversion of a path to a selection, but we also plan to use it for some stroking operations. Libart is plain C and does not depend on Gnome (but Gnome uses it too). IIRC it is also available for Windows. It significantly improved the quality of the path->selection conversion, a simple example can be seen at http://www.home.unix-ag.org/simon/files/antialiased.png The windows to the left are the old code, the windows on the right show the improved version. Bye, Simon -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.home.unix-ag.org/simon/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Hi, Christoph Rauch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > then theres always sourceforge. ;-/ we could start out there and if we > ever get access rights on gnome.org move the cvs to their server. there will be no problem giving access rights to gnome.org for developers of the gimp webpage. The question is if it is wise to have the web-site CVS tree on a different host than the web-server since it will complicate updates. Salut, Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
"Rebecca J. Walter" schrieb: > > I suggest putting the GIMP web site in CVS along the source code. > > We do this with our company web site and it has the usual benefits: > > versioning, locking, all privileged people can do updates. > > Problem right now is that gimp is on the gnome cvs server. I don't > think the cvs masters would be very happy about granting access to > people who ONLY work on the gimp web page. It took us quite a while to > get access for main members of the gimp-help team and I think adding > traffic for working on the website wouldn't be a very good idea. then theres always sourceforge. ;-/ we could start out there and if we ever get access rights on gnome.org move the cvs to their server. Christoph ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Can we move this to the web list? Any developers interested in web business will surely sign up for that list or check the archives for the information. On 01 Jun 2001 13:39:56 -0500 Joakim Ziegler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 02 Jun 2001 01:07:19 +0200, Rebecca J. Walter wrote: > > >> I suggest putting the GIMP web site in CVS along the source code. > >> We do this with our company web site and it has the usual benefits: > >> versioning, locking, all privileged people can do updates. > > > Problem right now is that gimp is on the gnome cvs server. I don't > > think the cvs masters would be very happy about granting access to > > people who ONLY work on the gimp web page. It took us quite a while to > > get access for main members of the gimp-help team and I think adding > > traffic for working on the website wouldn't be a very good idea. > > I don't think this would be a problem. The GNOME website is in CVS, and > it's going to contain the Gtk website too, soon. You should ask the CVS > people, obviously, but it sounds sane to me. > > -- >Joakim Ziegler - Ximian Web Monkey - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Radagast@IRC > FIX sysop - Free Software Coder - Writer - FIDEL & Conglomerate developer > http://www.avmaria.com/ - http://www.ximian.com/ - http://www.sinthetic.org/ > > ___ > Gimp-developer mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer > ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
On 02 Jun 2001 01:07:19 +0200, Rebecca J. Walter wrote: >> I suggest putting the GIMP web site in CVS along the source code. >> We do this with our company web site and it has the usual benefits: >> versioning, locking, all privileged people can do updates. > Problem right now is that gimp is on the gnome cvs server. I don't > think the cvs masters would be very happy about granting access to > people who ONLY work on the gimp web page. It took us quite a while to > get access for main members of the gimp-help team and I think adding > traffic for working on the website wouldn't be a very good idea. I don't think this would be a problem. The GNOME website is in CVS, and it's going to contain the Gtk website too, soon. You should ask the CVS people, obviously, but it sounds sane to me. -- Joakim Ziegler - Ximian Web Monkey - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Radagast@IRC FIX sysop - Free Software Coder - Writer - FIDEL & Conglomerate developer http://www.avmaria.com/ - http://www.ximian.com/ - http://www.sinthetic.org/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
> > I suggest putting the GIMP web site in CVS along the source code. > We do this with our company web site and it has the usual benefits: > versioning, locking, all privileged people can do updates. > Problem right now is that gimp is on the gnome cvs server. I don't think the cvs masters would be very happy about granting access to people who ONLY work on the gimp web page. It took us quite a while to get access for main members of the gimp-help team and I think adding traffic for working on the website wouldn't be a very good idea. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 02:01:42PM +0200, Ingo Luetkebohle wrote: > Tuomas Kuosmanen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Anyway. like Christoph said, the all most important thing is to > > get the people to do it. > > I volunteer to work on the development side. > > As for the technical side, I leave that up the folks on this list to > decide. My only strong urge is to use some means of seperating > content from code. Apache Cocoon is nice but if that seems overkill, > I have had good experiences with JSP tag libraries. Similiar > concepts are probably available for other languages. I'm had good experiences with mod_perl (well in particular my stuff). Others have had good experiences with PHP and probably Apache::Mason and ::EmbPerl and stuff. On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 03:33:07PM +0200, Christoph Rauch wrote: > Great!!! But IMHO we should limit the languages used, because of > maintainablity. So the decision of what language to be used should > be in the hands of the developers. > > Regarding content/code seperation: it's the only way to go. There > are many ways to do it, and we should take a path where someone who > doesnt know anything about coding, but is a master in HTML and > design can change the site-layout. I have this in theory, but not necessarily in practice :) Cheers, Tom -- Tom Rathborne [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.aceldama.com/~tomr/ | I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my | H complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the | A greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission, and I want to help you. | L ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 04:50:05AM -0400, Michael Spunt wrote: > I've hacked some lines right now, maybe you (and others) would like to > see it. Unfortunately, my f2s MySQL won't be available until 9:30am GMT, > so I had to test it at home. Anyway, these are the URLs: > http://www.technoid.f2s.com/news.gif > http://www.technoid.f2s.com/news.php.txt > > The latter is the source code. No OOP, almost no functions, pure > junk code. Sorry for GIF guys and girls! :-) Tell me, if you'd like > to see the MySQL structure, too. Umm, see, this is what worries me. code and HTML all interspersed. I just can't deal with that and I have the impression that lots of folks here have been through that nightmare many times. Can you restructure it to get that design/code/content separation going? On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 07:12:26AM +0200, Stefan Stiasny wrote: > talking about source code is probably not appropriate in this > stage... but if we really want to have any dynamic sites i would > urge to use xml/xsl transformation or another kind of templating > system... mixing contents, code and design is just a nightmare to > maintain. That whole XML/XSL is snake oil IMHO. It just seems like it's trying to do a little bit too much. Cheers, Tom -- Tom Rathborne [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.aceldama.com/~tomr/ | I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my | H complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the | A greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission, and I want to help you. | L ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Ingo Luetkebohle schrieb: > I volunteer to work on the development side. > As for the technical side, I leave that up the folks on this list to > decide. My only strong urge is to use some means of seperating content > from code. Apache Cocoon is nice but if that seems overkill, I have > had good experiences with JSP tag libraries. Similiar concepts are > probably available for other languages. Great!!! But IMHO we should limit the languages used, because of maintainablity. So the decision of what language to be used should be in the hands of the developers. Regarding content/code seperation: it's the only way to go. There are many ways to do it, and we should take a path where someone who doesnt know anything about coding, but is a master in HTML and design can change the site-layout. Christoph -- http://home.bn-paf.de/smokey/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Fw: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Hi! > And "what is the purpose of the site?" Some answers can probably be > found from webmaster@ mail archives (if there are such things) and by > listening to users. Before thinking anything else we should think what > should be there? And if we use PHP, we need some sense in the code, as > PHP tends to evolve into ultimate spaghetti (just look at themes.org).. > In that sense the perl template thingy would perhaps be better. Also PHP > can be used like that, although not many people (including me) do it > (there is a template class you can use and it fills your page template > with stuff, much like Java servlets or the perl thingy) [...] Fully agree here. We need a more precise plan of what should be there. The design bureaus creating pages for the commerce start off with brainstorming, too. Perhaps someone is already working on a mailinglist. If it's a big problem, [EMAIL PROTECTED] should be just a matter of hours. Anyway, parallel hacking isn't that bad, though. We gain experience about what could become useful / useless later. So, when it comes to designing the final engine (whether PHP or Perl), this could become important in order to avoid mistakes already made. > "Looking for PHP coders to hack on www.gimp.org" is going to give a ton > of "Oh, I just found this PHP thing and it is l33t!" -coders and will ;-) CU, Michael --=[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]=-- --=[ http://www.technoid.f2s.com ]=-- ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Tuomas Kuosmanen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Anyway. like Christoph said, the all most important thing is to get the > people to do it. I volunteer to work on the development side. As for the technical side, I leave that up the folks on this list to decide. My only strong urge is to use some means of seperating content from code. Apache Cocoon is nice but if that seems overkill, I have had good experiences with JSP tag libraries. Similiar concepts are probably available for other languages. Regards -- Ingo Luetkebohle / [EMAIL PROTECTED] / 95428014 / | Student of Computational Linguistics & Computer Science; | Fargonauten.DE sysadmin; Gimp Registry maintainer; | FP: 3187 4DEC 47E6 1B1E 6F4F 57D4 CD90 C164 34AD CE5B PGP signature
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Tuomas Kuosmanen schrieb: > On 23 May 2001 16:07:46 +0200, Christoph Rauch wrote: > > Maybe look at other free software projects websites? For example: The > > documentation section on http://www.php.net/ is a great example for > > functionality but perhaps a bit overcrowded. But I like the annotated > > documentation. Why not have something like that too? > Every user-submittable stuff needs someone to moderate it somehow. We > have trolls on Gnome News, the linux-usb working devices list page is I don't know how they do it on linuxtoday.com, but there are IMHO much less trolls and idiots. > getting full of newbie questions instead of useful information, every > forum has their own crackheads. If it is let alone it will turn into a > mess. Moderation should be as easy as scrathing your head. 2 or more moderators should get e-mails with the article and two links in them. [YEAH] [NO WAY!] That way the laziness is (hopefully) not as much of a problem. Christoph -- http://home.bn-paf.de/smokey/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Tuomas Kuosmanen schrieb: > > For the deeper nested pages like http://www.gimp.org/the_gimp_system_reqs.html > > which are not as often linked I would recommend a redirect. > We should have those most-often-needed pages there, as they are not > going to collide with the new structure (I prefer directories too, makes > stuff more simple to maintain) - The pages would just contain a template > to "this page is moved to [insert new url here]", once there are no hits > to them in the logs anymore, we can remove them. I changed my mind. Why should we remove them? We should integrate all the current links to fit to the new structure. Speak of: 2 links, one page. I dont think that this would be too hard to create such a system. > And I think the best fallback thing to do is to have the "404 Document > not found" -page be a site map: This would be a huge improvement. But then... everythings better than a plain 404. :-)) Christoph -- http://home.bn-paf.de/smokey/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
On 23 May 2001 19:38:48 +0200, Christoph Rauch wrote: > Raphael Quinet schrieb: > > > > > That's pretty poor. Why would I want to update my bookmarks? > > > You need not. gimp.org will happily redirect you to the page you wanted. > > Hmmm... This is better than nothing, but if would be nice if there > > could be some real pages (not redirects) at the following URLs, to > > which a number of other web sites (or user bookmarks) are pointing: > > downloads.html = /download/ > and so on? different url, but same content. does that confuse the users? > > For the deeper nested pages like http://www.gimp.org/the_gimp_system_reqs.html > which are not as often linked I would recommend a redirect. We should have those most-often-needed pages there, as they are not going to collide with the new structure (I prefer directories too, makes stuff more simple to maintain) - The pages would just contain a template to "this page is moved to [insert new url here]", once there are no hits to them in the logs anymore, we can remove them. And I think the best fallback thing to do is to have the "404 Document not found" -page be a site map: --- -- - - - Oops, the page you are looking for is not found! Please, have a look below for the information you are looking for: * About the Gimp * Download -short info blurb here -short info blurb here * Learn to use Gimp! * Get new plugins -short info blurb here -short info blurb here * No good? Then why not visit our _main page_ and try looking around in there? If you came through a link from another website, please be kind and inform the webmaster to update their link! Thank you! The Gimp Development Team --- -- - - - Tuomas -- .. | Tuomas Kuosmanen | Ximian | Art Director | | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.ximian.com | `' ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
On 23 May 2001 16:07:46 +0200, Christoph Rauch wrote: > Maybe look at other free software projects websites? For example: The > documentation section on http://www.php.net/ is a great example for > functionality but perhaps a bit overcrowded. But I like the annotated > documentation. Why not have something like that too? Every user-submittable stuff needs someone to moderate it somehow. We have trolls on Gnome News, the linux-usb working devices list page is getting full of newbie questions instead of useful information, every forum has their own crackheads. If it is let alone it will turn into a mess. Not that it would be useful to have a forum and discussion. But someone needs to look after it. Tuomas -- .. | Tuomas Kuosmanen | Ximian | Art Director | | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.ximian.com | `' ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
On 23 May 2001 00:43:56 +0200, Christoph Rauch wrote: > We might. But not today. The discussion could go into technical stuff > like "how do we do this in php" or something. > > The more important problem now is: Who is helping out? Who does the > graphics, who the code? Where can we put the stuff? Many loose ends > which still have to be closed. And "what is the purpose of the site?" Some answers can probably be found from webmaster@ mail archives (if there are such things) and by listening to users. Before thinking anything else we should think what should be there? And if we use PHP, we need some sense in the code, as PHP tends to evolve into ultimate spaghetti (just look at themes.org).. In that sense the perl template thingy would perhaps be better. Also PHP can be used like that, although not many people (including me) do it (there is a template class you can use and it fills your page template with stuff, much like Java servlets or the perl thingy) Anyway. like Christoph said, the all most important thing is to get the people to do it. Unfortunately I dont have too much time in my hands, but if I happen to get some excess Copious Free Time(tm) I could look into it. But unfortunately I will be on vacation starting next week, so I must disappear from this discussion (not that I have made a lot of noise lately anyway, because of a lot of work stuff (with the Gimp though! :)) > > Maybe a public "Call for volunteers" would be of help. Has anybody made > good/bad experiences with something like that? "Looking for PHP coders to hack on www.gimp.org" is going to give a ton of "Oh, I just found this PHP thing and it is l33t!" -coders and will end up in ultimate spaghetti unless someone is looking over the code. Not that I respect the volunteer efforts, but we want to keep the thing maintainable so the page is easy to update if there is need and the main web dudes are away. *cough* :) Tuomas -- .. | Tuomas Kuosmanen | Ximian | Art Director | | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.ximian.com | `' ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
hi fellow gimpers ;) On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 04:50:05AM -0400, Michael Spunt wrote: > [...] > I've hacked some lines right now, maybe you (and others) would like to > see it. Unfortunately, my f2s MySQL won't be available until 9:30am GMT, > so I had to test it at home. Anyway, these are the URLs: > http://www.technoid.f2s.com/news.gif > http://www.technoid.f2s.com/news.php.txt > > The latter is the source code. No OOP, almost no functions, pure junk > code. Sorry for GIF guys and girls! :-) Tell me, if you'd like to see > the MySQL structure, too. talking about source code is probably not appropriate in this stage... but if we really want to have any dynamic sites i would urge to use xml/xsl transformation or another kind of templating system... mixing contents, code and design is just a nightmare to maintain. so long, sc -- Stefan Stiasny <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Hello Tom! On Thu, 24 May 2001 20:03:32 -0400 Tom Rathborne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Alright, I _was_ being a bastard. My design is pretty disgusting for > other reasons anyway :) Nah! Design shouldn't play such a role at this stadium. :-) > Actually my engine is just a pet project ... I have been doing web > template systems for years and I decided to get around to making one > with a few less flaws. [...] > I agree that this bickering is a bit of a waste of time, but we _do_ > need to come to a consensus sooner or later. Sure, we should bundle our efforts. >> Anyway, tomorrow I'll possibly get access to MySQL on f2s so you can >> test my news code. > I'm looking forward to it! I've hacked some lines right now, maybe you (and others) would like to see it. Unfortunately, my f2s MySQL won't be available until 9:30am GMT, so I had to test it at home. Anyway, these are the URLs: http://www.technoid.f2s.com/news.gif http://www.technoid.f2s.com/news.php.txt The latter is the source code. No OOP, almost no functions, pure junk code. Sorry for GIF guys and girls! :-) Tell me, if you'd like to see the MySQL structure, too. -- --=[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]=-- --=[ http://www.technoid.f2s.com ]=-- ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Michael! On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 01:44:05AM -0400, Michael Spunt wrote: > On Thu, 24 May 2001 19:11:00 -0400 Tom Rathborne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > That's a neat design, but you're doing all this funky stylesheet stuff > > that leaves me with a bad font! Please don't change my font on me! > As I've already written some mails before, the design is nor > significant, nor final, nor useful, I just don't like plain HTML > when I work on something. Sorry for the CSS but it's readable in > Opera + Mozilla under Linux and MSIE5.5 + Netscape 6 under Windows > and doesn't use any "funky stuff". The CSS is also just temporary > and "funky stuff" is yet to come from interface designers! :-) Alright, I _was_ being a bastard. My design is pretty disgusting for other reasons anyway :) > > Also, what's with this? > > http://www.technoid.f2s.com/gimp.org/index.php?nav=doc > > A query in the URL for a static document?? > > [skipped some stuff] > > I think you stick to much to the "ugly URL" thing. I've used just one > file for the whole "engine" (if you can call it like that so far) > because I can edit one file to change the whole look. This isn't that > important, only a small detail which can change and isn't worth > discussing! Also, you can make /download/ point to > /gimp.org/1337/engine/version02/download/index.php?nav=stable&version=10 > without letting the user see that. Anyway, I cannot do that with my web > hoster. That's a very good point, yes... but I still prefer getting the URLs right the first time. > > Compare: > > http://www.technoid.f2s.com/gimp.org/index.php?nav=doc&page=tutorials > > http://wilber.gimp.org:8192/docs/user/tutorials/ > Do you know f2s? It is an ISP who also provides free web space to > poor people like me. ;-) I haven't got nor shells, nor CVS nor > something-i-forgot-to-mention, you've got almost root on gimp.org. I > think any comparison is futile... Also, we are wasting time on > discussing stuff like this without coming any further. Maybe your > engine is really "phat" but unfortunately I can't recognize > significant changes compared to the current one. Actually my engine is just a pet project ... I have been doing web template systems for years and I decided to get around to making one with a few less flaws. I agree that this bickering is a bit of a waste of time, but we _do_ need to come to a consensus sooner or later. > Anyway, tomorrow I'll possibly get access to MySQL on f2s so you can > test my news code. I'm looking forward to it! Cheers, Tom -- Tom Rathborne [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.aceldama.com/~tomr/ | I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my | H complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the | A greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission, and I want to help you. | L ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Hi Tom! On Thu, 24 May 2001 19:11:00 -0400 Tom Rathborne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > That's a neat design, but you're doing all this funky stylesheet stuff > that leaves me with a bad font! Please don't change my font on me! As I've already written some mails before, the design is nor significant, nor final, nor useful, I just don't like plain HTML when I work on something. Sorry for the CSS but it's readable in Opera + Mozilla under Linux and MSIE5.5 + Netscape 6 under Windows and doesn't use any "funky stuff". The CSS is also just temporary and "funky stuff" is yet to come from interface designers! :-) > Also, what's with this? > http://www.technoid.f2s.com/gimp.org/index.php?nav=doc > A query in the URL for a static document?? [skipped some stuff] I think you stick to much to the "ugly URL" thing. I've used just one file for the whole "engine" (if you can call it like that so far) because I can edit one file to change the whole look. This isn't that important, only a small detail which can change and isn't worth discussing! Also, you can make /download/ point to /gimp.org/1337/engine/version02/download/index.php?nav=stable&version=10 without letting the user see that. Anyway, I cannot do that with my web hoster. > I have purposely _not_ applied any significant design to the stuff > I've been working on - I'm expecting someone to come up with a better > one, eventually. I've just chosen the general geometry of the page. > Just a matter of changing a few template files. Same here. Just one template file and a rudimentary design yearning for changes. :-) > Actually, in my system, all of my URLs are _already_ nice and > clean, with full functionality. :) You are my personal hero, man! Sorry, couldn't resist. ;-) > Compare: > http://www.technoid.f2s.com/gimp.org/index.php?nav=doc&page=tutorials > http://wilber.gimp.org:8192/docs/user/tutorials/ Do you know f2s? It is an ISP who also provides free web space to poor people like me. ;-) I haven't got nor shells, nor CVS nor something-i-forgot-to-mention, you've got almost root on gimp.org. I think any comparison is futile... Also, we are wasting time on discussing stuff like this without coming any further. Maybe your engine is really "phat" but unfortunately I can't recognize significant changes compared to the current one. Anyway, tomorrow I'll possibly get access to MySQL on f2s so you can test my news code. -- --=[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]=-- --=[ http://www.technoid.f2s.com ]=-- ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Folks - On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 02:17:25PM +0200, Christoph Rauch wrote: > Tom Rathborne schrieb: > > > So this really could have been a "chicken and egg" problem. > > Yes, it seemed very "chicken and egg" to me. That's why I just > > started doing something on my own. I have already made about half > > of the decisions in Christoph's excellent list -- but I doubt that > > most people will agree with all of those decisions. Maybe someone > > will find _something_ useful in what I have done. > Then please share your decisions you have done so far. Describe what > language do you use, what layout, andsoon. We could then avoid > making duplicate efforts. > > I will then put up a second list with "done-so-fars" and "todos". Nobody's decided to do anything with my system so don't take any of my decisions as final! *grin* > Another thing that comes to my mind is i10n. When designing the > content-enginge one should keep that in mind. We could have a > documents in various languages on one page. The language would be > selected by the browsers preferences. As Raphael pointed out, Apache does this very nicely. I suspect that my stuff would have to be hacked on a bit more to be internationalized properly ... but not a whole lot more. On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 05:13:54PM +0200, Christoph Rauch wrote: > I have updated my lists at http://home.bn-paf.de/smokey/gimp_org/ Here are the choices that I've made: > 3. Go through various planning stages and then start working. > 1. Layout > 1. How should the site look like (look and feel) > 1. Appearance > 1. Clean and cool > 2. Dark and dirty > 3. Nice and fluffy > 4. other idea... Pink and cyan pastels with titles that look like silly putty. However, it's pretty simple to change that and then nuke all the cached content pages and have a new look for the site. > 2. In-detail design > 1. Mark of links going to off-site pages. > 2. Icons > 3. Style-sheets > 4. lots of other stuff... Most of this stuff falls into the category of 'content', really. > 2. Do we need a new logo for the site? > 1. Something with Wilber? > 2. Something like the current splash-screen? Good idea. > 3. How do we structure the site? > 1. New directory layout? > 2. Navigation > 3. Useability > 4. Accessability > 5. (insert your favourite buzzword here :-)) I like my navigation layout - expanding tree with bold indicating current path and an arrow indicating the current page. It looks ok on Lynx and w3m and a bunch of graphical browsers. > 2. Software > 1. What do we want to do? > 1. Post News, Articles, ChangeLogs We can grab the news in RDF format from Xach's site, but yes, in general, there should be a system to help us manage articles. > 2. Show The GIMPto new users > 3. Provide the users with: > 1. Tutorials > 2. Plugins > 3. Scripts, Perls, and other FUs > 4. Source Code / Binaries > 5. Palettes / Textures / and so on Yes, there should be a resource management system. > 4. Be able to change parts of the site without having to >learn all the website-code. Got that. > 2. What do we NOT want to do? > 1. Become a "programmer-page" with no look, but lots of > functions. > 2. Become a fscking portal which does everything except > cooking good coffee. I do have a Yahoo-style link database, which I think is worth having, but I agree that it shouldn't be a portal. > 3. Leave the web-site as it is today. > 3. How do we want it to be done? > 1. Stick with current system > 1. Reevaluate It's not that bad, but not very much fun to look at. > 2. Install a new Apache with certain modules > 1. Use a CMS (Content Management System... buzzbuzz! ;-)) > 1. Which one? CVS. :) > 2. Code it for ourself > 1. Active HTML > 1. Perl (mod_perl) I'm using mod_perl along with my own template and page generation/caching system. > 2. Python > 3. PHP > 4. Use templates! (Seperate code and HTML) Yes! My stuff keeps the Perl in .pm files where it belongs. Much of it is documented in POD too! > 2. Static HTML > 1. WML Website Meta Language > 1. Would allow us mirroring > 2. Use templates! > 3. Use a mix of both? > 1. WML&Perl, WML&Python, WML&PHP??? >
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Eep. I have over 150k of mail about the gimp webpage now. Here's a first reply to _some_ of it: On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 04:20:00AM -0400, Michael Spunt wrote: > I tried some stuff ony my own, too. Maybe you would like to have a > look at it: > http://www.technoid.f2s.com/gimp.org/index.php That's a neat design, but you're doing all this funky stylesheet stuff that leaves me with a bad font! Please don't change my font on me! Also, what's with this? http://www.technoid.f2s.com/gimp.org/index.php?nav=doc A query in the URL for a static document?? On Sat, May 19, 2001 at 09:09:55AM +0200, Raphael Quinet wrote: > Well, this looks interesting but I do not know if such a design is > appropriate for a Gimp site. Your design is modern/futuristic, but > these characteristics are not directly related to image editing, > painting, or graphics in general. Someone who comes to the site > without knowing what the Gimp is about (e.g., a Windows user who > clicked on a button "Graphics by Gimp" on some other web page) would > probably not think that she just loaded a page describing an image > editing program. It would be better if the home page could show > some paintbrushes, color palettes, maybe some photorealistic images > (but the page should not be too "heavy"), and of course our friend > Wilber. These things could easily be associated with what the Gimp > is about. I have purposely _not_ applied any significant design to the stuff I've been working on - I'm expecting someone to come up with a better one, eventually. I've just chosen the general geometry of the page. Just a matter of changing a few template files. > Anyway, I am not sure that a completely new design for the Gimp site > is necessary. It would be nice, but upating the presentation is > IMHO much less urgent than updating the contents. There are many > broken links to external sites, incomplete information for > developers, outdated descriptions of the Gimp's features, ... If > someone has the time to update both the layout and the contents (and > to keep on maintaining the site for a while), then I am all for it. > But if nobody has enough time to do both, then updating the layout > should not delay the long-awaited updates of the contents. Design and contents are two completely separate things in my world. I suppose I could rearrange my templates to look more like the current site :) > In addition to some of the things mentioned in Christoph's TODO list, > I would like to add a couple of things that should avoided for the > Gimp's web site: > > * The new layout should not break the existing URLs. Many people have >bookmarked some pages on www.gimp.org, and many web sites have >direct links to the download pages, to the documentation or to the >mailing lists page. So even if the navigation system is redesigned, >there should still be something available from the same URLs as >today. Yes, mod_rewrite can do this. I am into directory hierarchies and organizing information, but I agree that we should not break any existing URLs. > * The design should be fast and clean. It should support all browsers >and should not make excesssive use of nested tables or JavaScript. >The current design of www.gimp.org is OK from that point of view. >But on the other hand, the GUG site is taking too long to render in >Netscape 4 (2-3 seconds of delay for re-displaying any page, because >of the nested tables). I think my stuff is pretty quick - works in Lynx and w3m quite nicely, too. > * The pages should be easy to bookmark and the URLs should not be too >long. This means that frames are forbidden, and the systems that >generate dynamic contents using horribly long URLs should also be >avoided (see the bad examples from Corel below). Very much agreed. On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 02:46:24PM +0200, Christoph Rauch wrote: > Raphael Quinet schrieb: > > and the systems that generate dynamic contents using horribly > > long URLs should also be avoided (see the bad examples from Corel > > below). > There is always mod_rewrite. This way we can "beautify" the URLs, > without disturbing functionality from the developer side. Actually, in my system, all of my URLs are _already_ nice and clean, with full functionality. :) Compare: http://www.technoid.f2s.com/gimp.org/index.php?nav=doc&page=tutorials http://wilber.gimp.org:8192/docs/user/tutorials/ Why _create_ ugly URLs? Why not just make them pretty in the first place? On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 03:32:13PM +0200, Raphael Quinet wrote: > > > and the systems that generate dynamic contents using horribly > > > long URLs should also be avoided (see the bad examples from > > > Corel below). > > There is always mod_rewrite. This way we can "beautify" the URLs, > > without disturbing functionality from the developer side. > Yes, of course. But it could be even better if most of the site > could be based on static files that are generated once (by appl
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Whether you like it or not, gimp has been ported to mac and windoze. All gimp info should be accessible and helpful for all. And point to os specific help when needed. And yes, even be viewable with internet explorer. (My mom uses that, sorry). Michael Spunt wrote: > > Hi Nick! > > On Wed, 23 May 2001 16:47:14 +0100 Nick Lamb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > >> update bookmarks. Backward-compatibility isn't cool. :-) Also, a new > >> navigation structure would really force a new file naming and all. > > That's pretty poor. Why would I want to update my bookmarks? Because > > you are a w1ck3d cool new webmaster? Because you've decided that > > downloads go in foo/ and screenshots go in baz/ ? > > Why should I update to Mozilla 0.9 or use UNIX? The Microsoft Internet > Explorer 3.0 shipped with my Windows 3.1x is enough for my needs. ;-) > The Gimp world emerges, information changes, the page becomes obsolete > and hard to maintain. Backward compatibility isn't worth that. > > Also, noone wants to be a "w1ck3d cool webmaster". A great software > deserves a great page update time up to time and keeping the old crap > won't help much. Maybe you can tell us how to do it without breaking > "backward compatibility", though. > > -- > --=[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]=-- > --=[ http://www.technoid.f2s.com ]=-- > ___ > Gimp-developer mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Raphael Quinet said... |But it is very important to have most of the graphics (titles, etc.) |done with a script that is included in the standard Gimp distribution |so that every Gimp user can make the same things with only a couple of |mouse clicks. Contrary to some companies that have to protect their |image, we do not want to prevent people from copying the look and feel |of the gimp.org web site. We want the Gimp users to recognize |immediately that the graphics were done with one of the standard |scripts so that they know that they can do the same if they want to. This will also help with the "branding" cncept. If we have eppole using the look and feel all over the place, with GIMP logos, it will be a big win. That's one thing I agree with the marketers on! ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Raphael Quinet schrieb: > > The site-design neednt be redesigned from scratch. It may be enough to > > polish it up and remove the "Gimp-standard-script"-look, which was copied > > all over the web and today has a bit trashy touch. Definitely not a good > > representation for the greatest graphic program on earth. :-) > > Well, if it has been copied all over the web, this is probably a good > sign... Well, of course, but it wears off... :-) Christoph -- http://home.bn-paf.de/smokey/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
On Wed, 23 May 2001, Christoph Rauch wrote: [...] > The site-design neednt be redesigned from scratch. It may be enough to > polish it up and remove the "Gimp-standard-script"-look, which was copied > all over the web and today has a bit trashy touch. Definitely not a good > representation for the greatest graphic program on earth. :-) Well, if it has been copied all over the web, this is probably a good sign... Anyway, I agree that the look could be improved and the titles could be a bit more impressive (but they should still use a common color palette and they should not be too heavy or too distracting). But it is very important to have most of the graphics (titles, etc.) done with a script that is included in the standard Gimp distribution so that every Gimp user can make the same things with only a couple of mouse clicks. Contrary to some companies that have to protect their image, we do not want to prevent people from copying the look and feel of the gimp.org web site. We want the Gimp users to recognize immediately that the graphics were done with one of the standard scripts so that they know that they can do the same if they want to. I would like to hear things like: "Hey, cool, this Gimp program works well... I can do the same graphics as they have on their web site and it is really easy to do with the built-in scripts. If it is good enough for them, then the Gimp must be good enough for me." Of course, a standard script does not mean an old one. This can be done by a new script, as long as it becomes part of the standard distribution in version 1.2.2 or 1.4.0. By the way, this will have to be done in Script-Fu and not Perl-Fu because the script should run in the Windows version of the Gimp (which is probably the version that is used by the majority of new users nowadays). -Raphael ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Raphael Quinet schrieb: > > > That's pretty poor. Why would I want to update my bookmarks? > > You need not. gimp.org will happily redirect you to the page you wanted. > Hmmm... This is better than nothing, but if would be nice if there > could be some real pages (not redirects) at the following URLs, to > which a number of other web sites (or user bookmarks) are pointing: downloads.html = /download/ and so on? different url, but same content. does that confuse the users? For the deeper nested pages like http://www.gimp.org/the_gimp_system_reqs.html which are not as often linked I would recommend a redirect. > > Because its easier to maintain. We have more possibilities to guide the user > > if we use directories. > Yes. As long as there are not too many levels (deep hierarchy), this > should be OK. But it would be nice if the most frequently visited > pages could have a very short URL, like the ones listed above. > > > Please explain to me, a simple web user, why I need the URLs for info > > > on the Gimp site to change. If there isn't a compelling reason for the > > > USER then there's no reason at all, is there? > > go to http://www.gimp.org/download/ > OK, that directory does not exist and you get a 404 error (which could > be replaced by a redirect to the correct page). But where did you > find a link to it? The only links that I found are pointing to the > page (not directory): http://www.gimp.org/download.html a user could by chance enter that url. wouldn't it be nice to "guess" what he wanted and present him with the page, or with a list of possible pages instead of a 404? > Anyway, that did not answer Nick's question: why would the users have > to change their bookmarks? Its up to the user what he does. Perhaps i'm a bit too acustomed to "update your bookmarks" pages We could of course link all the old pages to the new pages, so he wouldnt even notice. Or even redirect him without explaining, so he would end up on a different page then he entered. What would be better? I dont know. Example: Go to http://www.amazon.com/books/ and see where you are after page-load. Christoph -- http://home.bn-paf.de/smokey/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
On Wed, 23 May 2001, Christoph Rauch wrote: > Nick Lamb schrieb: > > That's pretty poor. Why would I want to update my bookmarks? > > You need not. gimp.org will happily redirect you to the page you wanted. Hmmm... This is better than nothing, but if would be nice if there could be some real pages (not redirects) at the following URLs, to which a number of other web sites (or user bookmarks) are pointing: http://www.gimp.org/mailing_list.html http://www.gimp.org/download.html http://www.gimp.org/devel_cvs.html http://www.gimp.org/docs.html http://www.gimp.org/tutorials.html http://www.gimp.org/links.html http://www.gimp.org/logos.html A redirection would work, but the short URLs are nice and easy to remember (a redirect would probably replace them by a longer URL). > > Because you've decided that > > downloads go in foo/ and screenshots go in baz/ ? > > Because its easier to maintain. We have more possibilities to guide the user > if we use directories. Yes. As long as there are not too many levels (deep hierarchy), this should be OK. But it would be nice if the most frequently visited pages could have a very short URL, like the ones listed above. > > Please explain to me, a simple web user, why I need the URLs for info > > on the Gimp site to change. If there isn't a compelling reason for the > > USER then there's no reason at all, is there? > > go to http://www.gimp.org/download/ OK, that directory does not exist and you get a 404 error (which could be replaced by a redirect to the correct page). But where did you find a link to it? The only links that I found are pointing to the page (not directory): http://www.gimp.org/download.html Anyway, that did not answer Nick's question: why would the users have to change their bookmarks? -Raphael ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Hi Nick! On Wed, 23 May 2001 16:47:14 +0100 Nick Lamb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> update bookmarks. Backward-compatibility isn't cool. :-) Also, a new >> navigation structure would really force a new file naming and all. > That's pretty poor. Why would I want to update my bookmarks? Because > you are a w1ck3d cool new webmaster? Because you've decided that > downloads go in foo/ and screenshots go in baz/ ? Why should I update to Mozilla 0.9 or use UNIX? The Microsoft Internet Explorer 3.0 shipped with my Windows 3.1x is enough for my needs. ;-) The Gimp world emerges, information changes, the page becomes obsolete and hard to maintain. Backward compatibility isn't worth that. Also, noone wants to be a "w1ck3d cool webmaster". A great software deserves a great page update time up to time and keeping the old crap won't help much. Maybe you can tell us how to do it without breaking "backward compatibility", though. -- --=[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]=-- --=[ http://www.technoid.f2s.com ]=-- ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Kelly Martin said... |>Example: http://www.gimp.org/download/ Result: 404 - not found | |That's not a "look and feel" issue, it's just a broken link problem |that has nothing to do with look and feel. While it's a tangential LNF issue, it *is* an LNF issue. A plain old "page not found" error is fine when the web is young and your audience is 12 people in your department and you're developing web servers and such. In the real world, it's a bad idea. Of course, it's even worse when the "page not found" page has 12 nested tables and 37 graphics on it and takes a week to load, as I have seen on some of the commercial webspace servers... -Miles ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
On Wed, 23 May 2001 18:21:16 +0200, Christoph Rauch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: >Many sites have never changed since 1995. Some are changing too >frequently. With gimp.org we have sort of the first one (even if its >not THAT old). With a redesign in both content and structure we can >be more flexible and add more things which are usefull to both new >and "old" users. The current webpage organises all html-pages in the >root-direcotry of the server. This is definitely NOT flexible enough. >Example: http://www.gimp.org/download/ Result: 404 - not found That's not a "look and feel" issue, it's just a broken link problem that has nothing to do with look and feel. >The site-design neednt be redesigned from scratch. It may be enough >to polish it up and remove the "Gimp-standard-script"-look, which was >copied all over the web and today has a bit trashy touch. Definitely >not a good representation for the greatest graphic program on >earth. :-) Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Kelly ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Nick Lamb schrieb: > That's pretty poor. Why would I want to update my bookmarks? You need not. gimp.org will happily redirect you to the page you wanted. > Because you are a w1ck3d cool new webmaster? Of course. ;-)) > Because you've decided that > downloads go in foo/ and screenshots go in baz/ ? Because its easier to maintain. We have more possibilities to guide the user if we use directories. > Please explain to me, a simple web user, why I need the URLs for info > on the Gimp site to change. If there isn't a compelling reason for the > USER then there's no reason at all, is there? go to http://www.gimp.org/download/ Christoph -- http://home.bn-paf.de/smokey/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Christoph Rauch said... |> I think if we have a redesign there should be a good reason for it. |> A fersh look is NOT important. Fresh content is far more |> important. Consistency is a *good* thing. | |With a well designed site we could use the "with our software you are able to do |that too"-effect and attract more potential users to gimp. That may be worth it, |or not? Depends. I'm certainly open to suggestions. Just don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. |> Marketers will tell you that you have to change the site |> to make it moer appealing,. [...deleted...] | |I wont go to marketeers. Shes a friend. :) That wasn't to you; it was a more general thing for everyone to keep in mind. I've actually had friends who were marketers. They even listened to me, and I to them. 8^) -Miles ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Kelly Martin schrieb: > >I know, I know. Since we're probably going to rewrite the site in > >something less arcane and more known, now is the ideal time to revamp > >the look and feel. > I hate it when sites change things. (My credit card company changes > their online customer service system every couple of months and it > drives me nuts.) There is nothing at all wrong with the current look > and feel, and I see no reason at all to change it. Well, thats a different extreme. :-) Many sites have never changed since 1995. Some are changing too frequently. With gimp.org we have sort of the first one (even if its not THAT old). With a redesign in both content and structure we can be more flexible and add more things which are usefull to both new and "old" users. The current webpage organises all html-pages in the root-direcotry of the server. This is definitely NOT flexible enough. Example: http://www.gimp.org/download/ Result: 404 - not found The site-design neednt be redesigned from scratch. It may be enough to polish it up and remove the "Gimp-standard-script"-look, which was copied all over the web and today has a bit trashy touch. Definitely not a good representation for the greatest graphic program on earth. :-) Christoph -- http://home.bn-paf.de/smokey/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
On Wed, 23 May 101 10:23:57 -0500 (CDT), [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Miles O'Neal) said: >I know, I know. Since we're probably going to rewrite the site in >something less arcane and more known, now is the ideal time to revamp >the look and feel. I hate it when sites change things. (My credit card company changes their online customer service system every couple of months and it drives me nuts.) There is nothing at all wrong with the current look and feel, and I see no reason at all to change it. Kelly ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 02:58:43PM -0400, Michael Spunt wrote: > If a user requests a page not available on the server, he / she gets > redirected to "news", "404", "we have changed" or whatever from where he > / she can navigate to the required page and realizes that it's time to > update bookmarks. Backward-compatibility isn't cool. :-) Also, a new > navigation structure would really force a new file naming and all. That's pretty poor. Why would I want to update my bookmarks? Because you are a w1ck3d cool new webmaster? Because you've decided that downloads go in foo/ and screenshots go in baz/ ? Please explain to me, a simple web user, why I need the URLs for info on the Gimp site to change. If there isn't a compelling reason for the USER then there's no reason at all, is there? Nick. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Hello Miles! Miles O'Neal schrieb: > In terms of layout, the gimp site is head and shoulders > above the vast majority of sites out there now. right. > I think if we have a redesign there should be a good reason for it. > A fersh look is NOT important. Fresh content is far more > important. Consistency is a *good* thing. With a well designed site we could use the "with our software you are able to do that too"-effect and attract more potential users to gimp. That may be worth it, or not? > Marketers will tell you that you have to change the site > to make it moer appealing,. [...deleted...] I wont go to marketeers. Shes a friend. :) > It actually *annoys* people to go to a favorite site > and suddenly have to hunt for things. Yeah. I had that experience 3 days ago... > [...people love gimps navigation...] > I know, I know. Since we're probably going to rewrite > the site in something less arcane and more known, now > is the ideal time to revamp the look and feel. Let's > just make sure it's worth the effort, and we don't lose > things - like the top notch menu system, etc. Will add this to my lists. Christoph -- http://home.bn-paf.de/smokey/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Hi Christoph! On Wed, 23 May 2001 16:07:46 +0200 Christoph Rauch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> update bookmarks. Backward-compatibility isn't cool. :-) Also, a new >> navigation structure would really force a new file naming and all. > a "please update your bookmarks" page would be the best choice, IMHO. Sure, this would be a more polite way. :-) > Maybe look at other free software projects websites? For example: The > documentation section on http://www.php.net/ is a great example for > functionality but perhaps a bit overcrowded. But I like the annotated > documentation. Why not have something like that too? The new php.net design is great! I liked the old one with yellow popup boxes, too, but this one's the best combination of annotated function reference, news and feedback and it's free of bloat. The function search is great. Anyway, the new gimp.org frontpage should have a little freshmeat-like look, ie large news and a secondary bar for links, polls, contests and every other temporary information. Check out my mockup on that. -- --=[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]=-- --=[ http://www.technoid.f2s.com ]=-- ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Steinar H. Gunderson said... | |On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 02:33:01PM +0200, Christoph Rauch wrote: |>I'm going to ask a graphic-designer, who is a friend of me, to help us with |>the design or layout. Perhaps we could have some input from a different |>viewpoint. (user vs. developer) In terms of layout, the gimp site is head and shoulders above the vast majority of sites out there now. I think if we have a redesign there should be a good reason for it. A fersh look is NOT important. Fresh content is far more important. Consistency is a *good* thing. Marketers will tell you that you have to change the site to make it moer appealing,. keep people coming back. We don;t want them to come back to see the *site* - we want them to find the information tehy need, to make the GIMP more useful, to help the GIMP community, etc. If we happen to win awards, that's great, but not crucial. It actually *annoys* people to go to a favorite site and suddenly have to hunt for things. The GIMP menus haev been copied by a number of sites. People love it. The things they don't love are broken links and stale, outdated content. That's where the effort should go. I know, I know. Since we're probably going to rewrite the site in something less arcane and more known, now is the ideal time to revamp the look and feel. Let's just make sure it's worth the effort, and we don't lose things - like the top notch menu system, etc. |Just notice that being a good paper designer does _not_ neccessarily |make you a good web designer. The web is a really special medium, and |most `conventional' designers tend not to understand its ways -- and you |end up with slow, unnavigatable, resolution-fixed crap. Amen. A lot of sites that started out useful are completely absurd now, and I avoid many of the sites I once considered essential to my job, news, and the web experience (whatever that is 8^) in general. -Miles ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Raphael made a number of excellent points regarding the site redesign. I'd like to reiterate some of them and add something. |* The new layout should not break the existing URLs. Many people have | bookmarked some pages on www.gimp.org, and many web sites have | direct links to the download pages, to the documentation or to the | mailing lists page. So even if the navigation system is redesigned, | there should still be something available from the same URLs as | today. | |* The design should be fast and clean. It should support all browsers | and should not make excesssive use of nested tables or JavaScript. | The current design of www.gimp.org is OK from that point of view. | But on the other hand, the GUG site is taking too long to render in | Netscape 4 (2-3 seconds of delay for re-displaying any page, because | of the nested tables). They should also work if JavaScript is not available. Links should be links - not JS calls! |* The site should not use cookies unless there is a real need for | them. For example, if the site is built with PHP then it should not | use the session-id cookies or any other user-tracking cookies. This | is not needed and it annoys the users who have configured their | browser to warn them when the server wants to set a cookie. | |* The pages should be easy to bookmark and the URLs should not be too | long. This means that frames are forbidden, and the systems that | generate dynamic contents using horribly long URLs should also be | avoided (see the bad examples from Corel below). I work for a software company whose products handle content management, personalization, etc. [It doesn't run on linux, and it's much more complex and resource intensive than we need, so I haven't pursued trying to get a copy.] I've worked on the GUI, in professional services doing work for clients and in applications. The above points turn out to be absolutely critical if you want a really useful site for the vast majority of users - especially if you care about a wide cross-section of users from techiphobes to technophiles. And while I know this is a mind-boggling concept, we should make sure the pages work even if there is no image delivery. -Miles ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Michael Spunt schrieb: > > * The new layout should not break the existing URLs. Many people have > If a user requests a page not available on the server, he / she gets > redirected to "news", "404", "we have changed" or whatever from where he > / she can navigate to the required page and realizes that it's time to > update bookmarks. Backward-compatibility isn't cool. :-) Also, a new > navigation structure would really force a new file naming and all. a "please update your bookmarks" page would be the best choice, IMHO. > > Maybe it could be interesting to have a look at the web sites of the > > companies selling similar products... You will see that all of them > > I fully agree at this point. Only that Gimp isn't a commercial product > and needs some more comprehensive online documentation, external links, Maybe look at other free software projects websites? For example: The documentation section on http://www.php.net/ is a great example for functionality but perhaps a bit overcrowded. But I like the annotated documentation. Why not have something like that too? Christoph ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Raphael Quinet schrieb: > Yes, of course. But it could be even better if most of the site could > be based on static files that are generated once (by applying some > templates around the CVS files), so that the pages do not have to be > re-generated for every request. This reduces the load on the server, > and more importantly this ensures that all pages can be cached, both > in the user's browser cache and in large caching proxies. This would be ok for me. And there would be no "error - wheres the database?" errors on the pages. :-)) > Most information that is provided on the gimp.org web site is static > anyway. It does not need to be updated frequently (except for the > news section, but even that is not updated more than once per day) and > we do not need dynamic elements. This could change if we introduce a > web-based discussion forum or some online polls, but there is already > the GUG site for that so this is not needed on the main gimp site. I'll put it on the "what-we-dont-want-to-do" list. > [...lotsofstuffdeleted...] Maintainability is very important. I get the creeps if I look at the ugly-hacks I wrote for my web-projects only a year ago. How would that code look to you? Ugh! > So I do not care if nobody says: "Wow, what a nice design!" when > viewing the gimp.org site, but I hope that many will say: "Wow, I did > not know that I could do this with the Gimp!" or even: "Wow, this Gimp > program seems to be easier to use and more powerful than my current > software." Thats exactly what I thought. But I think a great program deserves a really great webpage, and thus the page should be as good as it can be. Of course that would mean that it would not only be beautiful but also load fast, degrade gracefully to older browsers, guide the user through the site without him/her even noticing... and so on. There will be no wasted effort if the result is as good as we can imagine it now. :-)) Christoph -- http://home.bn-paf.de/smokey/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
On Wed, 23 May 2001, Christoph Rauch wrote: > Raphael Quinet schrieb: [...] > > and the systems that generate dynamic contents using horribly long URLs > > should also be avoided (see the bad examples from Corel below). > > There is always mod_rewrite. This way we can "beautify" the URLs, without > disturbing functionality from the developer side. Yes, of course. But it could be even better if most of the site could be based on static files that are generated once (by applying some templates around the CVS files), so that the pages do not have to be re-generated for every request. This reduces the load on the server, and more importantly this ensures that all pages can be cached, both in the user's browser cache and in large caching proxies. Most information that is provided on the gimp.org web site is static anyway. It does not need to be updated frequently (except for the news section, but even that is not updated more than once per day) and we do not need dynamic elements. This could change if we introduce a web-based discussion forum or some online polls, but there is already the GUG site for that so this is not needed on the main gimp site. So I think that a system that generates static pages from a set of templates would be well suited to the gimp.org web site. As far as I know, this is already what is done, even if it is done by a collection of dirty hacks. Of course, this is not a requirement. If there is a system based on dynamic pages that works better and is much easier to maintain, then it is probably better than a system that loads faster but is not easy to maintain. The key thing is that we should be sure that five years from now, there is still somebody who can understand how the thing works and keep the contents up-to-date. >> Maybe it could be interesting to have a look at the web sites of the >> companies selling similar products... You will see that all of them >> are using simple layouts: they do not try to impress people with nice >> HTML tricks; instead they simply list the features of their products >> and provide some simple documentation. > > Looking at other pages is always a good idea to get HTML and design > ideas from, but the design of the new pages should be *totally > unique*. Yes and no... The web site should not look like a direct copy of some other site, so in that way is should be unique. But it does not need a totally unique and impressive HTML design. We are not trying to impress people with what can be done in DHTML, we are trying to help those who are using or discovering the Gimp. Of course, it does not harm if the site looks good in addition to providing great contents and useful information about the Gimp, but we should not spend too much efforts on that. So I do not care if nobody says: "Wow, what a nice design!" when viewing the gimp.org site, but I hope that many will say: "Wow, I did not know that I could do this with the Gimp!" or even: "Wow, this Gimp program seems to be easier to use and more powerful than my current software." -Raphael ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Hi! On Sat, 19 May 2001 09:09:55 +0200 Raphael Quinet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Well, this looks interesting but I do not know if such a design is > appropriate for a Gimp site. Your design is modern/futuristic, but > these characteristics are not directly related to image editing, Perhaps I should have mentioned that this design is not a design yet (do you really think I would allow something ugly like that to become gimp.org? :-)). I just like some frame for content and it's sure the next design won't be plain text either. > Anyway, I am not sure that a completely new design for the Gimp site > is necessary. It would be nice, but upating the presentation is IMHO > much less urgent than updating the contents. There are many broken It is. The blue bar at the left is the only thing I like about the current design but it's tied to the old navigation and I'm not sure if it would be good to reuse. Everything else are clumsy tables which make an old-fashioned impression. I'm not aiming at a Pixecore type design but have a look at this: http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/main.html It's simple, clean navigation, not overbloated and shows some little gimmicks that can be done (see the circles). We don't need (want) to copy Adobe, but the design should be as functional as theirs. Correct me if I missed a point here. > * The new layout should not break the existing URLs. Many people have >bookmarked some pages on www.gimp.org, and many web sites have >direct links to the download pages, to the documentation or to the >mailing lists page. So even if the navigation system is > redesigned, >there should still be something available from the same URLs as >today. If a user requests a page not available on the server, he / she gets redirected to "news", "404", "we have changed" or whatever from where he / she can navigate to the required page and realizes that it's time to update bookmarks. Backward-compatibility isn't cool. :-) Also, a new navigation structure would really force a new file naming and all. > Maybe it could be interesting to have a look at the web sites of the > companies selling similar products... You will see that all of them > are using simple layouts: they do not try to impress people with nice > HTML tricks; instead they simply list the features of their products > and provide some simple documentation. I fully agree at this point. Only that Gimp isn't a commercial product and needs some more comprehensive online documentation, external links, feedback etc.. The Paint Shop Pro Tour looks nice but it only shows what you can do and not how you can do it. -- --=[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]=-- --=[ http://www.technoid.f2s.com ]=-- ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 02:33:01PM +0200, Christoph Rauch wrote: >I'm going to ask a graphic-designer, who is a friend of me, to help us with >the design or layout. Perhaps we could have some input from a different >viewpoint. (user vs. developer) Just notice that being a good paper designer does _not_ neccessarily make you a good web designer. The web is a really special medium, and most `conventional' designers tend not to understand its ways -- and you end up with slow, unnavigatable, resolution-fixed crap. That being said, I do not know your friend at all :-D /* Steinar */ -- Homepage: http://members.xoom.com/sneeze/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Jens Lautenbacher schrieb: > > I suggest putting the GIMP web site in CVS along the source code. > > We do this with our company web site and it has the usual benefits: > > versioning, locking, all privileged people can do updates. > Funny enough, it's already in CVS -- but only acessible for those > poor souls having an account on wilber (only cvs over ssh) People at that > time didn't like the fact of having it in the usual gnome CVS. Because of what? I see no problem putting it on a public CVS server. Anybody can look at the web-page, so why dont let them look at it in CVS? And were a free software project, so why should the scripts be non-free? Of course we would have to put sensible data like passwords and such in a config-file/config-files which we do not put in CVS. Christoph ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Raphael Quinet schrieb: > * The pages should be easy to bookmark and the URLs should not be too >long. This means that frames are forbidden, Of course! > and the systems that generate dynamic contents using horribly long URLs should also >be > avoided (see the bad examples from Corel below). There is always mod_rewrite. This way we can "beautify" the URLs, without disturbing functionality from the developer side. > Maybe it could be interesting to have a look at the web sites of the > companies selling similar products... You will see that all of them > are using simple layouts: they do not try to impress people with nice > HTML tricks; instead they simply list the features of their products > and provide some simple documentation. Looking at other pages is always a good idea to get HTML and design ideas from, but the design of the new pages should be *totally unique*. Christoh -- http://home.bn-paf.de/smokey/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Michael Spunt schrieb: > > Yes, it seemed very "chicken and egg" to me. That's why I just started > > doing something on my own. I have already made about half of the > > decisions in Christoph's excellent list -- but I doubt that most > > people will agree with all of those decisions. Maybe someone will > > find _something_ useful in what I have done. > I tried some stuff ony my own, too. Maybe you would like to have a look > at it: > http://www.technoid.f2s.com/gimp.org/index.php > > Changing the navigation structure was the main goal here, so it differs > from your effort. We could test various navigation structures without much design involved. That way we could then use the most appealing. I'm going to ask a graphic-designer, who is a friend of me, to help us with the design or layout. Perhaps we could have some input from a different viewpoint. (user vs. developer) Christoph ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Andreas Jaekel schrieb: > I suggest putting the GIMP web site in CVS along the source code. > We do this with our company web site and it has the usual benefits: > versioning, locking, all privileged people can do updates. I'll put that on the list. Christoph ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Tom Rathborne schrieb: > > So this really could have been a "chicken and egg" problem. > Yes, it seemed very "chicken and egg" to me. That's why I just started > doing something on my own. I have already made about half of the > decisions in Christoph's excellent list -- but I doubt that most > people will agree with all of those decisions. Maybe someone will > find _something_ useful in what I have done. Then please share your decisions you have done so far. Describe what language do you use, what layout, andsoon. We could then avoid making duplicate efforts. I will then put up a second list with "done-so-fars" and "todos". Another thing that comes to my mind is i10n. When designing the content-enginge one should keep that in mind. We could have a documents in various languages on one page. The language would be selected by the browsers preferences. Christoph ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Hi, Raphael Quinet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > In addition to some of the things mentioned in Christoph's TODO list, > I would like to add a couple of things that should avoided for the > Gimp's web site: [lots of good points deleted] * Please don't use GIFs! Salut, Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Andreas Jaekel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Hi, > > I suggest putting the GIMP web site in CVS along the source code. > We do this with our company web site and it has the usual benefits: > versioning, locking, all privileged people can do updates. Funny enough, it's already in CVS -- but only acessible for those poor souls having an account on wilber (only cvs over ssh) People at that time didn't like the fact of having it in the usual gnome CVS. jtl ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Hi, I suggest putting the GIMP web site in CVS along the source code. We do this with our company web site and it has the usual benefits: versioning, locking, all privileged people can do updates. Why do I suggest it? Because in my opinion the outdated and missing information is the biggest problem of the website. If all people with commit privileges could add/make changes the moment they see a need, or if more than one or two people could maintain the web site together that will be helpful. To keep the design clean and the authors away from the complicated table structures yadda yadda we have written a very simple perl script that takes a handful of templates and renders them into the homepage by recursively walking through directories. So you only change templates, not web pages. All the HTML you have to know as an author is B, P, H? and A tags. It's a simple approach to have a sane compromise between plain nothing and a complete content management system. It works well. We have a CVS notify trigger that re-renders the page after each commit. Finally, a side note: bringing the home page of Gimp up to date is a herculean task. Maintaing it, too. Maybe it's a good idea to break it down into parts (content-wise) and give them to several people or do it one after another. Maybe CVS could help with that. Should you alreadbe be using CVS - mea culpa. I'm Gimp-interested, not Gimp-focused. I'm not aware of all the projects details. Meow, Tabalon -- Andreas Jaekel, CableCats GmbH, Flottenstr. 28-42, 13407 Berlin http://www.cablecats.de/ Tel.: 030 - 916 11 77 3 ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
On Wed, 23 May 2001, Michael Spunt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I tried some stuff ony my own, too. Maybe you would like to have a look > at it: > http://www.technoid.f2s.com/gimp.org/index.php > > Changing the navigation structure was the main goal here, so it differs > from your effort. Well, this looks interesting but I do not know if such a design is appropriate for a Gimp site. Your design is modern/futuristic, but these characteristics are not directly related to image editing, painting, or graphics in general. Someone who comes to the site without knowing what the Gimp is about (e.g., a Windows user who clicked on a button "Graphics by Gimp" on some other web page) would probably not think that she just loaded a page describing an image editing program. It would be better if the home page could show some paintbrushes, color palettes, maybe some photorealistic images (but the page should not be too "heavy"), and of course our friend Wilber. These things could easily be associated with what the Gimp is about. Anyway, I am not sure that a completely new design for the Gimp site is necessary. It would be nice, but upating the presentation is IMHO much less urgent than updating the contents. There are many broken links to external sites, incomplete information for developers, outdated descriptions of the Gimp's features, ... If someone has the time to update both the layout and the contents (and to keep on maintaining the site for a while), then I am all for it. But if nobody has enough time to do both, then updating the layout should not delay the long-awaited updates of the contents. In addition to some of the things mentioned in Christoph's TODO list, I would like to add a couple of things that should avoided for the Gimp's web site: * The new layout should not break the existing URLs. Many people have bookmarked some pages on www.gimp.org, and many web sites have direct links to the download pages, to the documentation or to the mailing lists page. So even if the navigation system is redesigned, there should still be something available from the same URLs as today. * The design should be fast and clean. It should support all browsers and should not make excesssive use of nested tables or JavaScript. The current design of www.gimp.org is OK from that point of view. But on the other hand, the GUG site is taking too long to render in Netscape 4 (2-3 seconds of delay for re-displaying any page, because of the nested tables). * The site should not use cookies unless there is a real need for them. For example, if the site is built with PHP then it should not use the session-id cookies or any other user-tracking cookies. This is not needed and it annoys the users who have configured their browser to warn them when the server wants to set a cookie. * The pages should be easy to bookmark and the URLs should not be too long. This means that frames are forbidden, and the systems that generate dynamic contents using horribly long URLs should also be avoided (see the bad examples from Corel below). Maybe it could be interesting to have a look at the web sites of the companies selling similar products... You will see that all of them are using simple layouts: they do not try to impress people with nice HTML tricks; instead they simply list the features of their products and provide some simple documentation. As an example, here are the pages that describe the new features in the lastest version of several well-known products (looking at these pages is also interesting for Gimp developers because they can give lots of good ideas for new features): Adobe - Photoshop 6.0 http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/keyfeature1.html Jasc - Paint Shop Pro 7 http://www.jasc.com/psp7_new.asp? Corel - CorelDRAW 10 - features http://www3.corel.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/AppLogic+FTContentServer?pagename=Corel/Product/FeatureList&fid=CC1U8HKJOEC&id=CC1IOY1YKCC Corel - Painter 6 (previously Fractal Design, then MetaCreations) http://www3.corel.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/AppLogic+FTContentServer?pagename=Corel/Product/FeatureList&fid=CC1YQHZ3SGC&id=CC1Q1IVRBAC -Raphael ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Hi Tom! On Tue, 22 May 2001 20:26:40 -0400 Tom Rathborne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yes, it seemed very "chicken and egg" to me. That's why I just started > doing something on my own. I have already made about half of the > decisions in Christoph's excellent list -- but I doubt that most > people will agree with all of those decisions. Maybe someone will > find _something_ useful in what I have done. I tried some stuff ony my own, too. Maybe you would like to have a look at it: http://www.technoid.f2s.com/gimp.org/index.php Changing the navigation structure was the main goal here, so it differs from your effort. -- --=[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]=-- --=[ http://www.technoid.f2s.com ]=-- ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 12:02:05AM +0200, Christoph Rauch wrote: > > > I think it's a great step in the right direction. The gimp.org > > > discussion ist really not young and hasn't shown any visible > > > results yet. The Gimp User Group has been aiming at redesigning > > > (both content and appearance) of gimp.org for a long while and > > > we would appreciate to see final decisions to start working. > > well, you will not see final decisions until we see a proposal how > > you want to do the new site. I hope that now that this discussion > > came up again, a bunch of people will get together, discuss the > > topic and settle on the infrastructure they want to use and start > > implementing it... > So this really could have been a "chicken and egg" problem. Yes, it seemed very "chicken and egg" to me. That's why I just started doing something on my own. I have already made about half of the decisions in Christoph's excellent list -- but I doubt that most people will agree with all of those decisions. Maybe someone will find _something_ useful in what I have done. Cheers, Tom -- Tom Rathborne [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.aceldama.com/~tomr/ | I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my | H complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the | A greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission, and I want to help you. | L ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
RE: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
hi all, for a site with some dynamic content, Zope (www.zope.org) is a platform which is easy to setup and to maintain. I used the Squishdot Product (www.squishdot.org) for www.gimp.de and I am quite happy with that. So if you want to integrate a dynamic slashdot-like discussion forum on the new site, I could volunteer to do that. regards Juergen > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Sven > Neumann > Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 12:11 AM > To: Christoph Rauch > Cc: Sven Neumann; Michael Spunt; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage > > > Hi, > > Christoph Rauch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > Is there a mailinglist for the gimp webpage yet? > > nope. But we can certainly set up one if the traffic on this > list increases too much or the people that want to discuss this > issue demand one. For the moment, I'd suggest we keep the > discussion here. Please don't resist to discuss web-site details > here until we have set up a mailing list. Do you think we need > one now? > > > Salut, Sven > ___ > Gimp-developer mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer > ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Sven Neumann schrieb: > > Is there a mailinglist for the gimp webpage yet? > > nope. But we can certainly set up one if the traffic on this > list increases too much or the people that want to discuss this > issue demand one. For the moment, I'd suggest we keep the > discussion here. Please don't resist to discuss web-site details > here until we have set up a mailing list. Do you think we need > one now? We might. But not today. The discussion could go into technical stuff like "how do we do this in php" or something. The more important problem now is: Who is helping out? Who does the graphics, who the code? Where can we put the stuff? Many loose ends which still have to be closed. Maybe a public "Call for volunteers" would be of help. Has anybody made good/bad experiences with something like that? Christoph -- http://home.bn-paf.de/smokey/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
