On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote:
I have always had trouble with the MWI version of this - it's generally
hard to believe that the person who is having these experiences will
become two people who have had different experiences (to avoid any
personal pronouns in those
On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 , LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote:
What question about personal identity is indeterminate? There is a 100%
chance that the Helsinki man will turn into the Moscow man because the
Helsinki Man saw Moscow, and a 100% chance the Helsinki Man will turn into
the Washington Man
On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 6:59 PM, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 , LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote:
What question about personal identity is indeterminate? There is a
100% chance that the Helsinki man will turn into the Moscow man because the
Helsinki Man saw Moscow,
On 4 October 2013 05:59, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 , LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote:
What question about personal identity is indeterminate? There is a
100% chance that the Helsinki man will turn into the Moscow man because the
Helsinki Man saw Moscow, and a
On 4 October 2013 06:28, Platonist Guitar Cowboy
multiplecit...@gmail.comwrote:
You were kind enough to let the list know, along with Chris Peck, that the
flaw in the reasoning concerning step 3 of the UDA is it sucks.
Unless you guys backtrack and quit abusing the fact that Bruno's
or your attempts to clarify
them. I see flaws in what you say. Does that really insult you?
--- Original Message ---
From: LizR lizj...@gmail.com
Sent: 4 October 2013 7:20 AM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com, Charles Goodwin
charlesrobertgood...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: What gives philosophers
On 4 October 2013 11:56, chris peck chris_peck...@hotmail.com wrote:
Hi Liz / pgc
If I have been abusive to you or Bruno then I apologize without
hesitation. If you would show where I have been abusive though I would
appreciate that, because at the moment I regard the suggestion as low and
On Wed, Oct 02, 2013 at 05:25:32AM +, chris peck wrote:
Hi Russell
Not at all. The UDA does not depend on the MWI at all.
And I didn't suggest it did. This is exquisite chaos. Assuming none of us are
correct then we're rebutting rebuttles we misrepresent of arguments that have
been
On 01 Oct 2013, at 18:41, John Clark wrote:
On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 12:01 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be
wrote:
Digital teleportation is not necessary, with existing technology
I can make a real experiment, not just a thought experiment, that
incorporates all the philosophical
On 01 Oct 2013, at 19:34, meekerdb wrote:
On 10/1/2013 7:13 AM, David Nyman wrote:
However, on reflection, this is not what one should deduce from the
logic as set out. The logical structure of each subjective moment is
defined as encoding its relative past and anticipated future states
(an
On 01 Oct 2013, at 22:20, John Clark wrote:
On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 12:59 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be
wrote:
Forget Everett, forget Quantum Mechanics, even in pure Newtonian
physics subjective indeterminacy exists because of lack of
information. If you knew the exact speed
On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
On 01 Oct 2013, at 19:34, meekerdb wrote:
On 10/1/2013 7:13 AM, David Nyman wrote:
However, on reflection, this is not what one should deduce from the
logic as set out. The logical structure of each subjective moment is
. But
is Bruno trivially right or trivially wrong in step 3? To what
extent are people giving Bruno the benefit of the doubt because its
a bit like Everett?
All the best
From: stath...@gmail.com
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2013 09:40:47 +1000
Subject: Re: What gives philosophers a bad name
On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
philosophically my low-tech experiment works just as well and is just as
uninformative as your hi-tech version.
Not at all. In your low tech (using a coin), you get an indeterminacy
from coin throwing,
And the coin throw was
On 10/2/2013 7:03 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote:
On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
On 01 Oct 2013, at 19:34, meekerdb wrote:
On 10/1/2013 7:13 AM, David Nyman wrote:
However, on reflection, this is not what one should deduce from the
logic as set out. The
On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 9:37 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 10/2/2013 7:03 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote:
On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
On 01 Oct 2013, at 19:34, meekerdb wrote:
On 10/1/2013 7:13 AM, David Nyman wrote:
However, on reflection,
On 3 October 2013 06:48, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
philosophically my low-tech experiment works just as well and is just
as uninformative as your hi-tech version.
Not at all. In your low tech (using a coin), you
Hi Bruno
[JC] Because step 3 sucks.
[Bruno] Why? You have not yet make a convincing point on this.
His point is convincing me.
regards.
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2013 23:18:07 +0200
Subject: Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?
From: te...@telmomenezes.com
To: everything-list
On 3 October 2013 12:38, chris peck chris_peck...@hotmail.com wrote:
Hi Bruno
*[JC] Because step 3 sucks.
*
* *
* *
* ** *
*
*
* *
*[Bruno] Why? You have not yet make a convincing point on this. *
His point is convincing me.
Which point is that? JC said:
What question about
On 10/2/2013 4:33 PM, LizR wrote:
On 3 October 2013 06:48, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com mailto:johnkcl...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be
mailto:marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
philosophically my low-tech experiment works just as well and is
On 3 October 2013 13:15, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
Interestingly it appears that most coin tosses may be quantum random,
arXiv:1212.0953v1 [gr-qc]
(snip)
I say most because I know that magicians train themselves to be able to
flip a coin and catch it consistently.
. It shouldn't really be there.
Regards.
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 13:19:50 +1300
Subject: Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?
From: lizj...@gmail.com
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
On 3 October 2013 13:15, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
Interestingly it appears that most
On 3 October 2013 14:12, chris peck chris_peck...@hotmail.com wrote:
Hi Liz
*
Is there something wrong with quantum indeterminacy?
*
Apart from the fact the MWI removes it? And that that is the point of MWI?
And that probability questions in MWI are notoriously thorny?
OK, and since the
. What
else is there? There is only me trying to imagine being either washington-me or
Moscow-me in the future. But this is a 3-p perspective. As soon as I imagine me
being somewhere else, I am objectifying me. Im 3-peeing me.
regards
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 12:32:06 +1300
Subject: Re: What gives
On 30 Sep 2013, at 16:50, John Clark wrote:
On 9/28/2013 12:01 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
I have few doubt that 9/11 is an inside job, and the evidences
are rather big that this is the case,
How the hell did this thread turn into a showcase for looney
conspiracy theories? The level of
On 30 Sep 2013, at 22:25, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/30/2013 7:24 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 29 Sep 2013, at 20:15, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/29/2013 12:07 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
As he knows in advance that he will feel, whoever he is, live
only one (again, from The 1-pov).
But that sentence
On 30 Sep 2013, at 22:40, John Clark wrote:
Personal identity has nothing to do with prediction, and there is a
100% probability the the Washington man and the Moscow man remember
being the Helsinki man, and that is all you need to know to say that
the Helsinki man had more than one
a child being fooled by the idea. Obviously I would disagree with
this child.
regards.
From: marc...@ulb.ac.be
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 14:42:46 +0200
On 30 Sep 2013, at 22:40, John Clark wrote:
Personal
-peeing me.
regards
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 12:32:06 +1300
Subject: Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?
From: lizj...@gmail.com
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
On 1 October 2013 09:40, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote:
Personal identity has nothing to do with prediction
On 01 Oct 2013, at 14:47, chris peck wrote:
Hi Bruno
You might quote mùe, but I make clear and insist, at each step of
the UDA, that the question is addressed before the duplication.
You insist but you do not make clear. Even in this reply you state:
On the contrary, it is very simple.
On 1 October 2013 13:47, chris peck chris_peck...@hotmail.com wrote:
You certainly failed to provide a flaw, in case you think there is one.
may be you can elaborate.
I've provided the same flaw other people have and I have elaborated at
length. There is no point in elaborating much further
On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
Every one know that if we assume that if the Helsinki man can survive
digital teleportation, in each of those futures he will feel to be unique,
and living in only one city,
Digital teleportation is not necessary, with existing
On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 8:42 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
Your reasoning would show that in Everett QM, where we have also many
different futures,
Yes.
but as Everett explained, the indeterminacy remains, it just become
first person
Forget Everett, forget Quantum Mechanics,
On 01 Oct 2013, at 17:07, John Clark wrote:
On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
Every one know that if we assume that if the Helsinki man can
survive digital teleportation, in each of those futures he will feel
to be unique, and living in only one city,
Digital
On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 12:01 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
Digital teleportation is not necessary, with existing technology I can
make a real experiment, not just a thought experiment, that incorporates
all the philosophical implications, such as they are, as your hi-tech
On 01 Oct 2013, at 17:48, John Clark wrote:
On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 8:42 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be
wrote:
Your reasoning would show that in Everett QM, where we have also
many different futures,
Yes.
but as Everett explained, the indeterminacy remains, it just
become
On 10/1/2013 7:13 AM, David Nyman wrote:
However, on reflection, this is not what one should deduce from the
logic as set out. The logical structure of each subjective moment is
defined as encoding its relative past and anticipated future states
(an assumption that seems consistent with our
On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 12:59 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
Forget Everett, forget Quantum Mechanics, even in pure Newtonian physics
subjective indeterminacy exists because of lack of information. If you knew
the exact speed things were moving at and the coefficient of friction and
On 1 October 2013 18:34, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
But then it seems one needs the physical, or at least the subconscious. If
one conceives a subjective moment as just what one is conscious of in a
moment it doesn't encode very much of the past. And in the digital
simulation
On 1 October 2013 22:47, chris peck chris_peck...@hotmail.com wrote:
A child recently saw by himself that even God cannot predict to you (in
Helsinki) the outcome felt after such duplication.
I can imagine a child being fooled by the idea. Obviously I would disagree
with this child.
I tend
: stath...@gmail.com
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2013 09:40:47 +1000
Subject: Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
On 1 October 2013 22:47, chris peck chris_peck...@hotmail.com wrote:
A child recently saw by himself that even God cannot predict to you
On 2 October 2013 14:51, chris peck chris_peck...@hotmail.com wrote:
I also don't think he should ride on the back of Everett. It seems that
there is an argument now that Brunos' conclusions are similar to Everett's,
therefore lets be forgiving about his informal proof. Lets not.
Sorry, I
On Wed, Oct 02, 2013 at 01:51:01AM +, chris peck wrote:
Hi David
Thanks for the response. It was by far the best response Ive had and a
pleasure to read.
Lets distinguish between conclusions and arguments.
I can entertain many bizarre conclusions. I often wonder about an
On 29 Sep 2013, at 12:19, chris peck wrote:
Hi Bruno, and thanks for the reply.
Precisely: the expectation evaluation is asked to the person in
Helsinki, before the duplication is done, and it concerns where the
person asked will feel to be, from his first person point of view.
On 29 Sep 2013, at 19:38, John Clark wrote:
On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
And cause is a complex high level notion.
A cause is complex and at a high level only if the effect is complex
and at a high level. If Z is at the fundamental level (assuming
there
On 29 Sep 2013, at 20:15, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/29/2013 12:07 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
As he knows in advance that he will feel, whoever he is, live only
one (again, from The 1-pov).
But that sentence is hard to parse. Whoever he is implies there
is only one he,
?
It implies there is
On 9/28/2013 12:01 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
I have few doubt that 9/11 is an inside job, and the evidences are
rather big that this is the case,
How the hell did this thread turn into a showcase for looney conspiracy
theories? The level of logical rigor shown in this idea is similar to
On 9/30/2013 7:24 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 29 Sep 2013, at 20:15, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/29/2013 12:07 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
As he knows in advance that he will feel, whoever he is, live only one (again, from
The 1-pov).
But that sentence is hard to parse. Whoever he is implies there
On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
A cause is complex and at a high level only if the effect is complex and
at a high level. If Z is at the fundamental level (assuming there really is
such a level and causes and effects aren't infinitely nested) then it's
On 1 October 2013 09:40, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote:
Personal identity has nothing to do with prediction, and there is a 100%
probability the the Washington man and the Moscow man remember being the
Helsinki man, and that is all you need to know to say that the Helsinki man
had
On 28 Sep 2013, at 16:58, John Clark wrote:
On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 3:16 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be
wrote:
Everett mention what you call feeling of identity, which is a
consequence of modeling the observer by a machine
It doesn't matter if modeling the observer by a machine is
On 28 Sep 2013, at 20:25, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/28/2013 12:01 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
...
Prohibition is only a technic to sell a lot of drugs, without
quality control, nor price control, + the ability to directly
target all kids on all streets, making huge black markets, and
leading to
On 28 Sep 2013, at 20:28, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/28/2013 12:11 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 27 Sep 2013, at 19:55, John Clark wrote:
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.au
wrote:
I do remember a conversation you had with Bruno about 5 years
ago when you were
...@ulb.ac.be
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 09:17:45 +0200
On 28 Sep 2013, at 20:28, meekerdb wrote: On 9/28/2013 12:11 AM,
Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 27 Sep 2013, at 19:55, John Clark
On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
And cause is a complex high level notion.
A cause is complex and at a high level only if the effect is complex and at
a high level. If Z is at the fundamental level (assuming there really is
such a level and causes and effects aren't
On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 2:56 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
Does comp mean every event must have a cause? That question has a
simple yes or no answer, and you made up the word so you must know the
answer, what is it? If it's yes then I don't believe in this thing you call
comp.
On 9/29/2013 12:07 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
As he knows in advance that he will feel, whoever he is, live only one (again, from The
1-pov).
But that sentence is hard to parse. Whoever he is implies there is only one he, as if
he is a soul that goes to either Moscow or Washington but not
On 27 Sep 2013, at 20:58, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/27/2013 10:42 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 27 Sep 2013, at 04:50, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/26/2013 7:33 PM, LizR wrote:
On 27 September 2013 14:18, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 9/26/2013 6:47 PM, LizR wrote:
On 27 September 2013 13:03,
On 27 Sep 2013, at 20:10, David Nyman wrote:
On 27 September 2013 17:00, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
The NDAA bill is equivalent with If you fear me, I will put you
indefinitely in jail.
I confess that I hadn't been giving this issue much attention.
However, I now read the
On 27 Sep 2013, at 19:55, John Clark wrote:
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.au wrote:
I do remember a conversation you had with Bruno about 5 years ago
when you were discussing what a man in Helsinki would experience
when undergoing the duplicator experiment.
On 27 Sep 2013, at 21:54, John Clark wrote:
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 11:37 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote:
Anyone who has a problem with Bruno's teleportation thought
experiment should logically have the same problem with the MWI.
No, you are entirely incorrect. The Many World's
On 28 Sep 2013, at 06:27, John Clark wrote:
On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 12:02 AM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com
wrote:
Teleportation thought experiments are also about what you can
expect to see.
And I have no objection to thought experiments of that sort, but
Bruno is not
Subject: Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
On 28 September 2013 05:54, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 11:37 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote:
Anyone who has a problem with Bruno's teleportation thought
experiment
On 28 Sep 2013, at 07:46, Russell Standish wrote:
On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 04:33:15AM +, chris peck wrote:
Hi Russel
Thank goodness Clarcky has the same/similar complaint as me. I
think Brent does too, because he said he had an initial reaction to
the step like this and then offered
On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 09:29:17AM +0200, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 28 Sep 2013, at 07:46, Russell Standish wrote:
On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 04:33:15AM +, chris peck wrote:
Hi Russel
Thank goodness Clarcky has the same/similar complaint as me. I
think Brent does too, because he said he
On 28 Sep 2013, at 06:02, John Clark wrote:
On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 2:01 PM, Quentin Anciaux
allco...@gmail.com wrote:
I said that if Russell Standish were duplicated then Russell
Standish would be in Moscow and Washington.
This is only true from the POV of an external observer which
On 23 September 2013 13:16, Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.au wrote:
On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 12:29:30PM -0400, John Clark wrote:
Bruno, if you have something new to say about this proof of yours then
say it, but don't pretend that 2 years of correspondence and hundreds of
posts in
On 28 Sep 2013, at 10:17, LizR wrote:
On 23 September 2013 13:16, Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.au
wrote:
On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 12:29:30PM -0400, John Clark wrote:
Bruno, if you have something new to say about this proof of
yours then
say it, but don't pretend that 2 years of
On 26 September 2013 17:27, chris peck chris_peck...@hotmail.com wrote:
Hi Liz
Interesting. There's another thought experiment, or gambit, MWIers raise
involving quantum immortality.
In this, some quantum event at time t triggers a gun to shoot (or not
shoot) the MWIer.
Traditionally,
On 28 Sep 2013, at 09:44, Russell Standish wrote:
On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 09:29:17AM +0200, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 28 Sep 2013, at 07:46, Russell Standish wrote:
On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 04:33:15AM +, chris peck wrote:
Hi Russel
Thank goodness Clarcky has the same/similar complaint
On 28 September 2013 14:27, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 12:02 AM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com
wrote:
Teleportation thought experiments are also about what you can expect to
see.
And I have no objection to thought experiments of that sort, but
On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 3:16 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
Everett mention what you call feeling of identity, which is a
consequence of modeling the observer by a machine
It doesn't matter if modeling the observer by a machine is valid or not,
if tomorrow somebody remembers
On 9/28/2013 12:01 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
...
Prohibition is only a technic to sell a lot of drugs, without quality control, nor price
control, + the ability to directly target all kids on all streets, making huge black
markets, and leading to important corruption so that prohibition is
On 9/28/2013 12:11 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 27 Sep 2013, at 19:55, John Clark wrote:
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.au
mailto:li...@hpcoders.com.au wrote:
I do remember a conversation you had with Bruno about 5 years ago when
you were
discussing
On 9/28/2013 7:58 AM, John Clark wrote:
Does comp mean every event must have a cause? That question has a simple yes or no
answer, and you made up the word so you must know the answer, what is it? If it's yes
then I don't believe in this thing you call comp.
But the answer is yes in Everett's
I agree with most of what you wrote above, but that last is nonsense.
There is no way the government could have engineered the 9/11 attacks
without it being leaked even before it happened. Remember Occam, you need to
take the simplest explanation.
Brent I agree that logically it would seem
On 9/28/2013 12:37 PM, Chris de Morsella wrote:
I agree with most of what you wrote above, but that last is nonsense. There is no
way the government could have engineered the 9/11 attacks without it being leaked even
before it happened. Remember Occam, you need to take the simplest
Of meekerdb
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2013 2:23 PM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?
On 9/28/2013 12:37 PM, Chris de Morsella wrote:
I agree with most of what you wrote above, but that last is nonsense.
There is no way the government could
On 9/28/2013 4:28 PM, Chris de Morsella wrote:
But supposing this giant and very loosely organized group is, as a group, responsible
for a bombing because some of it's explosives were used, is a very big stretch. It's
much simpler and more likely that a rouge element in one small group,
On 23 September 2013 13:16, Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.au wrote:
On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 12:29:30PM -0400, John Clark wrote:
Bruno, if you have something new to say about this proof of yours then
say it, but don't pretend that 2 years of correspondence and hundreds of
posts in
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of meekerdb
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2013 4:45 PM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?
On 9/28/2013 4:28 PM, Chris de Morsella wrote
and put it in Liz, without erasing her
memory of being her, so that when she wakes up she remembers being her and
being you? Who's she?
Ultimately these are just discontinuities in space and matter.
From: stath...@gmail.com
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 15:25:17 +1000
Subject: Re: What gives
On 9/26/2013 10:25 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
On 27 September 2013 13:30, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 9/26/2013 8:02 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
On 27 September 2013 12:52, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 9/26/2013 7:48 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
On 27
having
written in the diary:
WWMWWWMWWMMWWWMWW
might recognize he was unable to predict that very sequence in Helsinki.
OK?
Bruno
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 09:35:58 +1200
Subject: Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?
From: lizj...@gmail.com
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
On 27 Sep 2013, at 02:51, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/26/2013 5:40 PM, LizR wrote:
On 27 September 2013 12:18, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 9/26/2013 4:51 PM, chris peck wrote:
Giving the built-in symmetry of this experiment, if asked before
the experiment about his personal future
On 27 Sep 2013, at 03:20, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/26/2013 6:00 PM, LizR wrote:
On 27 September 2013 12:51, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 9/26/2013 5:40 PM, LizR wrote:
On 27 September 2013 12:18, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 9/26/2013 4:51 PM, chris peck wrote:
Giving the
On 27 Sep 2013, at 04:48, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
On 27 September 2013 12:34, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 9/26/2013 7:15 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
On 27 September 2013 11:03, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 9/26/2013 6:05 PM, Russell Standish wrote:
This is a
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
You make a big deal about duplicating chambers and what city you end up
in and make all sorts of mystical conclusions from it; but all it comes
down to is the fact that different data streams (like one coming from
Washington and
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.au wrote:
I do remember a conversation you had with Bruno about 5 years ago when
you were discussing what a man in Helsinki would experience when undergoing
the duplicator experiment.
Yes.
I seem to recall you thought the man would
2013/9/27 John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.au wrote:
I do remember a conversation you had with Bruno about 5 years ago when
you were discussing what a man in Helsinki would experience when undergoing
the duplicator experiment.
On 27 September 2013 17:00, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
The NDAA bill is equivalent with If you fear me, I will put you
indefinitely in jail.
I confess that I hadn't been giving this issue much attention.
However, I now read the following:
Section 1021 of the NDAA bill of 2012
On 9/26/2013 9:28 PM, LizR wrote:
I'm not sure that it's clear using the contents of consciousness, either. The thing is,
if comp is right then there are definite computational steps that can be talked about,
analysed and so on, but thoughts might be a long way above them. Thoughts may be
On 9/27/2013 10:42 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 27 Sep 2013, at 04:50, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/26/2013 7:33 PM, LizR wrote:
On 27 September 2013 14:18, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net
mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 9/26/2013 6:47 PM, LizR wrote:
On 27 September 2013 13:03,
On 9/27/2013 10:31 AM, John Clark wrote:
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net
mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
You make a big deal about duplicating chambers and what city you end
up in
and make all sorts of mystical conclusions from it; but all it comes
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 11:37 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote:
Anyone who has a problem with Bruno's teleportation thought experiment
should logically have the same problem with the MWI.
No, you are entirely incorrect. The Many World's Interpretation is about
what you can expect to see, and
On 27 September 2013 16:08, chris peck chris_peck...@hotmail.com wrote:
If there is an entity that remembers being me at time t1 then the me
at time t1 survives. For example, if I fall asleep on a plane and wake
up on another continent 8 hrs later, I have survived despite the time
and space
On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 01:55:40PM -0400, John Clark wrote:
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.au wrote:
I do remember a conversation you had with Bruno about 5 years ago when
you were discussing what a man in Helsinki would experience when undergoing
the duplicator
On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 2:01 PM, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com wrote:
I said that if Russell Standish were duplicated then Russell Standish
would be in Moscow and Washington.
This is only true from the POV of an external observer which is not
Russell Standish
Don't give me that pee
On 28 September 2013 05:54, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 11:37 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote:
Anyone who has a problem with Bruno's teleportation thought experiment
should logically have the same problem with the MWI.
No, you are entirely incorrect.
On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 12:02 AM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.comwrote:
Teleportation thought experiments are also about what you can expect to
see.
And I have no objection to thought experiments of that sort, but Bruno is
not talking about assigning the probability you will see Moscow
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