EV digest 6061

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6061

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) RE: dc-dc working
by "Grigg. John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) List up?
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) RE: Not Receiving Emails
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Not getting posts
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) RE: DVD-Who Killed the Electric Car?
by "Chelsea Sexton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: "Who Killed the Electric Car" IN FULL on the WEB ! ! !
by "Chelsea Sexton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Cruise Control
by "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: After Market Electric power steering box
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) no more individual emails?
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Yahoo subscribers not getting list e-mails.
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: ELECTRO-SOLAR HYBRID
by "Christie Cooksey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Not recieving posts
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) RE: ELECTRO-SOLAR HYBRID
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Reattaching Magnets on PM Motors
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) clutch release bearing
by John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Battery Chargers
by Mike Sandman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) RE: Battery Chargers
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Next week on Hot and Cold
by "Tom Gocze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Reattaching Magnets on PM Motors
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Motor Theory Animations
by John Nicholson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Possible Motors
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) article: Vectrix Electric Scooter Launching in November
by Paul Wujek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: Freedom EV Update, Sunrise news
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: Cursit controllers revisited (squealing); precharge 'circuit'
 again (please)
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: Battery Chargers
by Mike Sandman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) RE: clutch release bearing
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) RE: Cursit controllers revisited (squealing); precharge 'circuit' again 
(please)
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 28) Re: Cursit controllers revisited (squealing); precharge 'circuit' again 
(please)
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 29) RE: Cursit controllers revisited (squealing); precharge 'circuit'
 again (please)
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 30) Re: Cursit controllers revisited (squealing); precharge 'circuit' again 
(please)
by "Dave Wilker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 31) RE: open controller designs?
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 32) Re: dc-dc working
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 33) Re: Not getting any evdl posts
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I tried this just last week; it caused so much noise(I presume) in the
battery loop my e-meter freaked out and was reporting 80amps of usage
instead what should have been 1amp.  I put the caps back in...
--- John Grigg

David wrote:
"Since the supply is being used on pure DC, could the filters be safely
removed or disconnected?"

On 24 Oct 2006 at 10:09, Lee Hart wrote:

> The Iota is an AC-input supply, so it has huge input filter
capacitors.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Why haven't I received anything from EVDL today?  Trouble on your end or mine?
   
  Thanks.
   
  Jeff Major


-
Do you Yahoo!?
 Everyone is raving about the  all-new Yahoo! Mail.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I also have Yahoo and have attempted to resuscribe to the list since the last 
email I received was
Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
from: John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
on: Sunday, October 22, 2006 10:03:24 PM

still no emails. I have added the evlist to my contact list in an attempt to 
whitelist it to no effect. I even completely disabled the spam in my mailbox 
and still don't get any emails. I have not yet yeard back from yahoos contact 
us.

Only way I am keeping up is on the ev-list-archive on yahoo groups.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I also haven't gotten any posts since Sunday - I'm reading the list off the 
yahoo board.  My e-mail's with yahoo - is it just yahoo which isn't  sending 
the posts through? 


-
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.  Great rates 
starting at 1¢/min.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

Hi,

We've now got the info up on our site: 
http://www.pluginamerica.com/wktec.shtml for both the WKtEC dvd as well as 
Sherry's book, "Plug-In Hybrids, the Cars that Will Recharge America." We've 
created package options as well as individual copies of each. For those that 
want 10 or more of either, we have bulk price options available as w

EV digest 6062

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6062

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) GE at EDTA Electric Vehicle Conference
by "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Not getting any evdl posts
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) I'm finally getting messages again
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Chet Fields <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Curtis 1231C at 158V?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  6) Re: EV digest 6059
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  7) RE: Cursit controllers revisited (squealing); precharge 'circuit' again 
(please)
by "Hartsell, Fred" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: EV digest 6059
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: dc-dc working
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: Battery Chargers
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Cursit controllers revisited (squealing); precharge 'circuit'
 again (please)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Cursit controllers revisited (squealing); precharge 'circuit'
 again (please)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) RE: I'm finally getting messages again
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Power Battery
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Any EV Listers from New Mexico?
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) OT Re: Not getting any evdl posts
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: OT Re: Not getting any evdl posts
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) RE: Cursit controllers revisited (squealing); precharge 'circuit' again 
(please)
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: OT Re: Not getting any evdl posts
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Inexpensive DC Motors with Keyed Shafts
by "Bruce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) RE: Cursit controllers revisited (squealing); precharge 'circuit' again 
(please)
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Dual motors with "hopped up Curtis" - seires or parallel?
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: Inexpensive DC Motors with Keyed Shafts
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: Inexpensive DC Motors with Keyed Shafts
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) Re: Inexpensive DC Motors with Keyed Shafts
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) Splined Adapters, Was: Inexpensive DC Motors with Keyed Shafts
by "Bruce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 28) Re: OT Re: Not getting any evdl posts
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 29) RE: Cursit controllers revisited (squealing); precharge 'circuit'
 again (please)
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
   
  I noticed on www.electricdrive.org/conference 2006/ that GE (number 200) has 
a display listed as www.geplastics.com .  I was curious if anyone knew if they 
are getting back into EV's under the GE Plastics division.  It's Tuesday NOV 28 
- Thursday Nov 30th in Washington DC. 
   
   I'm taking my boy to Myrtle Beach Thanksgiving week and my vacation time 
will be used up, otherwise I'd go & do a report.
   
  Have a renewable energy day,
  Mark


-
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.  Great rates 
starting at 1¢/min.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Me either. Non-EVlist emails were coming through. And other Yahoo group emails. 
But nothing from
the SJSU list. They are jsut starting to come through this morning (Wednesday.)

Dave Cover

--- Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I got no posts either.
> 
> - Original Message 
> From: Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu; Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 1:39:25 AM
> Subject: RE: Not getting any evdl posts
> 
> Jim,
> 
> your post was nr 53 today, by my count.
> If your email program or service provider has an
> issue so the posts cannot be delivered to you, then 
> you will receive all the posts 2 days later
> is my experience.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_waterIM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel:   +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax:   +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks   eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further  http://www.proxim.com
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Jim Husted
> Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 10:16 PM
> To: EVDL
> Subject: Not getting any evdl posts
> 
> 
> Hey all
> 
> Not sure whats going on now but I didn't recieve a
> single EVDL post today.  I know there were some by
> going to the archieves.  Yahoo's been slower than
> normal today but I've gotten privates and test ma

EV digest 6063

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6063

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) RE: dc-dc working
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) RE: I'm finally getting messages again
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Dual motors with "hopped up Curtis" - seires or parallel?
by Cory Cross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re:  Dual motors with "hopped up Curtis" - series or parallel?
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Dual motors with "hopped up Curtis" - series or parallel?
by Cory Cross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Dual motors with "hopped up Curtis" - seires or parallel?
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Precharge Circuit Design
by Chris Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Splined Adapters, Was: Inexpensive DC Motors with Keyed Shafts
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
David,

I know.
The reason is that if you draw any significant current, the
pre-charge does not happen, the resistor will burn up and
the controller will fault (or, if not protected, the main
contactor will close with a BANG of shorting 3000 Amps onto
the controller's caps, see the other discussion post.

Therefor I asked what the current draw is of an *unloaded*
Iota. If that is much smaller than your pre-charge current
then it could be done to give it a pre-charge.
I think Lee suggested the same.
It is _required_ to put a 12V relay in the DC/DC output to
make sure that the precharge happens without load on the
DC/DC converter. Only after the main contactor has closed
and the current can be drawn directly from the pack can you
close the 12V relay on the DC/DC output and start charging
your aux battery and supply current to your car's 12V system.

So if the Iota draws less than 100 mA from the pack when idle
and your pre-charge uses a 10 Ohm resistor, which will start
the pre-charge at 15A from a 144V pack and slowly taper off
when the capacitors will become charged, the effect of the
Iota's 100 mA on the 10 Ohm pre-charge resistor will be that
the finishing voltage will be 1V lower than pack, but long
before the finishing voltage is reached will the main
contactor close, so the difference will even be smaller
than 1V.
(100 mA at 144V is almost 15 Watts, this should be sufficient 
to run even a not-so-efficient DC/DC when idling.)

Hope this clarifies,

Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_waterIM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel:   +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax:   +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks   eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further  http://www.proxim.com


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of David Brandt
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 4:07 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: dc-dc working


The zilla manual specifically requires nothing to be placed after that
circuit.

David Brandt

- Original Message 
From: Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 4:52:11 PM
Subject: RE: dc-dc working


If your problem is inrush then a parallel resistor
does not help - a series resistor maybe.
Altenatively - what is the unloaded draw of the Iota?
You may be able to direct connect it to the battery input 
of the controller, so you are after the precharge circuit, 
this should take care of slowly ramping voltage, avoiding 
the inrush, but you will need a high-current 12V relay
in the output to avoid any significant current draw while
the precharge circuit is trying to get the capacitors
charged up.

Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_waterIM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel:   +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax:   +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks   eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further  http://www.proxim.com


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of David Brandt
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 8:47 AM
To: EVDLposts
Subject: dc-dc working


Well, I discovered something.  A KLKD fuse can blow without any visible
indications.  And the inrush current for an Iota 240V DC-DC will blow a 5A
KLKD fuse instantly.  I had to short the fuseholder with a test clip
(serving as a fusible link) before inserting a fuse.  Then removed the clip
and all was well.

Any recommendation

EV digest 6064

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6064

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) RE: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) 72V Power Supply - Can I build one?
by "martin emde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Strange battery/charger behavior?  Check your Anderson connector!
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) RE: 72V Power Supply - Can I build one?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: 72V Power Supply - Can I build one?
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: Strange battery/charger behavior?  Check your Anderson connector!
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Cursit controllers revisited (squealing); precharge 'circuit' again 
(please)
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) RE: Bradley GTE Project
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Mechanical control, was: Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: clutch release bearing
by John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Mechanical control, was: Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: Precharge Circuit Design
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Mechanical control, was: Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by "Ted C." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: Mechanical control, was: Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) RE: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: Mechanical control, was: Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by "Ted C." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: Cursit controllers revisited (squealing); precharge 'circuit'
 again (please)
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) RE: Precharge Circuit Design
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
You did?  I haven't seen any Otmar posts ... but since the list has been 
flaky lately ...


Rich Rudman wrote:

All good ideas
But..
Simple assembly, wide operating windows, 
NO plumbing.. 

Are very serious features. 


Serious enough to over shadow the draw backs.

And.. I succeded in DElurking Otmar...

Mission accomplished.

  
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I may be out of my mind but why can't a DC controller of the chopper kind
have a dual purpose?Charger/controller?  If it was priced at 2 to 3k it
would take care of two functions that usually cost more than 3k if bought
seperatly.  Is this possible or am I smoking bad stuff?  Lawrence Rhodes...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

> What DC'ers need is a Curtis-killer, not something that tries to compete
 > with Otmar's already excellent offerings.
 
 This is exactly what I am proposing... High voltage Curtii Killer, with some
 goodies, Not many.



So if I understand this correctly Rich Rudman (Manzanita Micro) is talking 
about designing and building an IGBT based DC controller which is "dumb as a 
box of rocks" - i.e. has analog control to speed up, slow down, etc. and not 
much else (Curtis dumb) which would handle 300+ volts but closer to 500 than 
1000 motor amps.  Rich figures the "market will bear" price range as comparable 
 to Zilla low voltage 1000 amp model, which Otmar (Cafe Electric) is currently 
not building but which he has said he will resume construction at no price 
increase in coming months.

My feedback, for what it's worth:  Kilowatts is kilowatts when it comes to 
power.  A DC motor can't handle more than about 170 volts so a pack voltage 
above that has to be stepped down.  The motors typically can't handle 500+ amps 
for an extended time period, either.  But it's nice to have over 500 motor amps 
for brief accelleration, I'd pay for that. And you're usually using those amp 
draws to accelerate from a slow speed or stop, so you're stepping down your 
voltage, and getting current multiplication, even with a ~150 volt pack.  Going 
to a higher voltage means fewer amps per battery - good for Peukert, I guess - 
but pound for pound a 30 kw pack gives the same performance whether it's 150 
volts and 200 amp hours or 300 volts and 100 amp hours.  Given the weight per 
watt of available batteries is the same either way, and the voltage limits of 
available DC motors I'm not sure that having a 300 volt controller supplying 
your DC motor with 500 amps instead of a 144 volt one
 with the same current capacity really gets

EV digest 6065

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6065

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) RE: Cursit controllers revisited (squealing); precharge 'circuit' again 
(please)
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) RE: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) RE: clutch release bearing
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Splined Adapters, Was: Inexpensive DC Motors with Keyed Shafts
 (Correction)
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: 72V Power Supply - Can I build one?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Mechanical control, was: Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: 72V Power Supply - Can I build one?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: 72V Power Supply - Can I build one?
by "martin emde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) RE: Mechanical control, was: Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option.
..
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Inrush current, was: Cursit controllers revisited (squealing); pr
echarge 'circuit' again (please)
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Mechanical control, was: Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by "Dave Wilker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) inexpensive, homebuilt,  Contactor Controller...
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Mechanical control, was: Re: EV  controllers? the 4th
  option...
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Mechanical control, was: Re: EV  controllers? the 4th
  option...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: inexpensive, homebuilt, Contactor Controller...
by "Ev Performance (Robert Chew)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Mechanical control, was: Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Cor van de Water wrote:

> Whether you use one battery or a string of many should
> not matter for Isc (short circuit current) as with each
> extra wire and internal battery resistance, you also
> increase the voltage sufficient to give the same current
> as with one battery.

This is true.

> The ESR of the cap does not change though, so the effect of
> the cap's ESR becomes less significant with higher pack
> voltage.

This is also true.

> I deliberately neglected the ESR, contactor resistance, fuse
> resistance, breaker resistance and wire resistance, because 
> all that should be small compared to the pack internal resistance.

This is, I believe, your mistake.  The better the battery (lower
impedance), the *more* significant the pack's external resistance (and
inductance) becomes with respect to reducing the magnitude of that peak
inrush current.

The current will still be several hundreds of amps, perhaps even over
1000A, but it will be well below the 3000A figure you suggested.

Cheers,

Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cor van de Water wrote:

> In fact, there have already been two generations of
> switching controllers: SCR without the benefits of
> high frequent switching (squeal) and current multiplication
> (more battery current).

Actually, both of these are incorrect ;^>

SCR controllers (the commonly available GE EV1's) switch at such low
frequency that they don't squeal, they growl.  This may seem like
splitting hairs, but once you've heard the SCR growl vs the Curtis
1.5kHz squeal, you'll understand.

Also, the SCR controllers most certainly do provide current
multiplication; they are still a buck converter, just using SCRs that
have to be switched at low speed instead of MOSFETs or IGBTs that
support higher switching frequencies.  GE's literature states that the
average motor loop current is typically 2-3x the battery current.  The
modern controllers certainly do do a better job at this, however.

Cheers,

Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John wrote: 

> The service manual shows a cut away of the bearing holder
> with instructions to grease a recess on the the inside
> that contacts the transmission input shaft. As I understand
> it, the transmission input shaft spins inside the bearing 
> holder so it seems the significantly smaller area on the 
> bearing may be problematic.

Gotcha.  As long as the input shaft can spin freely inside of the
throwout bearing you should be fine.

> I don't have a bearing puller so unless I want to buy another tool, I 
> need to get a replacement bearing/holder combination.

I've yet to see an throwout bearing that you could disassemble (and have
it be usable afterwards ;^), so don't worry about buying another tool as
its not an option.  I suppose you could try ordering a bearing from
another aftermarket parts place and if you still aren't happy with wht
you get, there is always the dealer.

Good luck,

Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

Eric Poulsen 

EV digest 6066

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6066

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Mechanical control, was: Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Power Battery
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  3) Re: Mechanical control, was: Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: 72V Power Supply - Can I build one?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Mechanical control, was: Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  6) "Who Killed the Electric Car" IN FULL on the WEB ! ! !
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) No emails
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  8) Re: inexpensive, homebuilt, Contactor Controller...
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Mechanical control, was: Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) RE: Mechanical control,
  was: Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option. ..
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Floodies/Batt. murder mystery/Thanks to Roger & Roland
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Low Tech EV Drivetrains
by "Bruce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Mechanical control, was: Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Low Tech EV Drivetrains
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Mechanical control,  was: Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option.
 ..
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Mechanical control, was: Re: EV  controllers? the 4th  option...
by "Dave Wilker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Low Tech EV Drivetrains
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: Mechanical control, was: Re: EV controllers? the 4th option. ..
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) AGM battery charging
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) How watts per hour for typical car at 60 miles per hour on freeway?
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, the contactor controller is very efficient if you stay at one speed and 
never stop or accelerated.

I had one of these units that I got from a Air Force savage yard that you 
can bid or buy, that was used for a load bank.  It consisted of ten 500 amp 
plus contactors and a very large resistor bigger than a car radiator with 
multiple taps.

A drum type selector switch would select each contactor, which then would 
tap a different resistance value which provides a different voltage that 
steps the voltage by 10 ten times.

The problem is, that it becomes a maintenance nightmare to maintain.  It 
requires you to pull all the contacts every month for cleaning and 
reshaping.  About once a year, you replace the contacts which may cost up to 
$250.00 per kit for silver tungsten type.

At todays cost, these contactors cost over $500.00 each and the resistor 
which must be over 100,000 watts or more is in the $1000.00's.

Cheaper to buy a Zilla.

Roland


- Original Message - 
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 9:35 PM
Subject: Re: Mechanical control, was: Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...


> >> It'd work, just be exceptionally inefficient if you tried to do it with 
> >> a
> >> series motor. Instead of having 80% of the battery available energy
> >> turned into motion, you may be as bad as 30%.
>
> From: "Ted C."
> > What's the problem with that? Millions of people every day drive cars
> > powered by ICE motors every day. We don't hear to many of them
> > complain about 30% efficiency.
>
> An ICE has a range of perhaps 300 miles even with its 30% efficiency.
> If its engine was 100% efficient, its range would be more like 1000 miles
> on a tank of gas.
>
> An EV has a range of more like 30 miles, and that's *with* an efficiency
> of 80% or more. If its efficiency were 30%, its range would be more like
> 10 miles. That's unacceptable.
>
> I think what you're looking for is a contactor controller. This is what 
> they
> used 100 years ago for EVs. They are crude and jerky, but almost 100%
> efficienct and very simple. Basically, it is a bunch of switches that wire
> the batteries in various series/parallel combinations to get the desired
> motor speed.
>
> 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I  have used some other brand telecom SLA batteries in smaller vehicles with 
good  results so far (1 to 2 years of occasional use).  They seem to be a lot  
less expensive than Optimas and Hawkers and the like, although not rated for  
vehicle use.  I have no idea if they would stand up to highway vibration  or 
cycle life.  My applications were in the 10 to 20 mph  range.




In the BMW motorcycle community we have been using Panasonic SLAs for years  
now as replacement bike batteries (

EV digest 6068

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6068

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Ray Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) RE: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Splined Adapters, Was: Inexpensive DC Motors with Keyed Shafts
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Electric boat vehicles in wooden boat magazine
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: 72V Power Supply - Can I build one?
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Precharge Circuit Design
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) RE:  Mechanical control
by "Chuck Hays" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Attn. Colorado EV'ers
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) RE: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Mechanical control, was: Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) I can build your controller
by Rocketjosh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Government Approvals and Certifications
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) EV Transaxle, was: Mechanical control, was: EV controllers? the 4th 
option...
by "Bruce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: How watts per hour for typical car at 60 miles per hour on freeway?
by "Edward Ang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Government Approvals and Certifications
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) RE: Bradley GTE Project
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) RE: Bradley GTE Project
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) EVer in the Land of Oil...Electric Arctic  Adventure!
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: How watts per hour for typical car at 60 miles per hour on freeway?
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) RE: How watts per hour for typical car at 60 miles per hour on fr
eeway?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Low voltage?
   
  How would these dual trench gate Powerex IGBTs at 1200volts compare.  The 300 
amp one has a switch time total of only 630ns and a Vce (sat) of 1.8 volts.  
Also available on ebay for about $20 each.
   
  
http://www.pwrx.com/pages/search/search_prod_rslts.asp?catid=50&partno=CM300DU-24F&sortby=0&speclist=0&catname=IGBTs
   
  Also available as dual 600 amps modules.
   
  
http://www.pwrx.com/pages/search/search_prod_rslts.asp?catid=50&partno=CM600DU-24F&sortby=0&speclist=0&catname=IGBTs
   
   
  Ezesport

Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  Stefan T. Peters wrote:
> Would a couple of these work well for a PWM controller?
> http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/ds/7738/ste110ns20fd.pdf

This is a single MOSFET in an Isotop package. The Isotop is a great 
package (screw terminals, isolated base, etc.) but expensive. This 
particular MOSFET is too small for a car-sized controller (Rds=0.024 
ohms max means just 21 amps for a 1v drop), but ten in parallel would 
outperform a Curtis 1231C.

Here are examples of the kind of dual MOSFET module I was thinking of:
http://www.ixys.net/l401.pdf (100v, 680a)
http://www.ixys.net/l389.pdf (300v, 280a)

Or two of these (one for pullup, one for pulldown):
http://www.ixys.net/l410.pdf (200v, 580a)
-- 
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net




-
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ 
countries) for 2¢/min or less.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think we were mainly focussing on DC controllers,
which require only one switching part plus a diode,
in most cases multiple of the same in parallel to
share the current.

Your module suggestions are for AC drive, although
I like them a lot, you can see they are built for
assembly, as the ordering of the terminals allow 
a HV DC bus to run over the first two terminals
(straight from the capacitor bank) and the output
terminal (junction of the pull up and pull down
transistor) is located at the edge of the device,
ready for a lug or strip to carry the current to
the AC motor terminals.

The only reason to use this module for DC would be
to use one (switching) transistor plus the freewheel
diode from the other transistor to get the two power
parts in one package (and not use the other two).

Most modules have a diode inferior to the transistor
but in this case the diode is the part with the
higher rating and lower forward voltage, resulting
in less dissipation. I like that.

Hey, they are around the corner in Santa Clara.
Do they offer samples?
(I recently had another manufacturer

EV digest 6069

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6069

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: How watts per hour for typical car at 60 miles per hour on freeway?
by Cory Cross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: How watts per hour for typical car at 60 miles per hour on freeway?
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) RE: Battery Chargers
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) RE: Battery Chargers
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) GM to Manufacture a Plug in Hybrid?
by "Don" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: How watts per hour for typical car at 60 miles per hour on freeway?
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) EV Transaxle, was: Mechanical control, was: EV controllers? the 4th
 option...
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: AGM battery charging
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Low Tech EV Drivetrains
by Geoff Linkleter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: EV Transaxle, was: Mechanical control, was: EV controllers? the 4th
 option...
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 12) RE: AGM battery charging
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Battery Chargers
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: AGM battery charging
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by "Seth Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
GWMobile wrote:

> If your numbers are correct how does a car with a 100 mile range
> consuming 15kw per hour at 60 mph  get recharged overnight by a
> receptacle outputting 1.9 kw continous?

Every hour of charging would enable you to go 7.6 miles. Driving 100
miles every day would require 13.2 hours of charging. How long is
overnight for you?

>
> Watts per hour is a watt hr.

Watts per hour is W/hr, a nonsense unit for our purposes.
Watts for hours is W-hr, energy.

> 10 kw for 60 mph driven for one hour is thus 10kw hrs of power.

Correct. 5.26 hours of 1.9kw wall power would recharge that vehicle
from empty.

Cory Cross

>
> On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 9:25 pm, Edward Ang wrote:
>
>> I posted in Dec 2003 to this group on the sudject of "Mind Your
>> Units".  The message is available here.
>>
>> http://www.evsource.com/articles/mind_your_units.php
>>
>> Many people think that getting the units right is not important.  I
>> personally think that it is the most important thing.  At the very
>> least, it avoids many confusions.
>>
>> On 10/26/06, David Roden (Akron OH USA) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 26 Oct 2006 at 12:17, GWMobile wrote:
>>>
  How watts per hour for typical car at 60 miles per hour on freeway?
>>>
>>>
>>> There are no such units as "Watts per hour."  A Watt is a measure of
>>> power rather
>>> than of energy, so the term "Watts per hour" is meaningless.
>>>
>>> Now, Watt-hours (note : NOT "watt/hours") are a measure of energy. 
>>> A Watt-hour is
>>> the expenditure of one Watt for one hour.  Watt-hours per hour makes
>>> sense, but
>>> Watt-hours per hour are ... just Watts.  (Mathematically, the hours
>>> cancel out.)
>>>
>>> So, to answer the question I think you're asking - how much power an
>>> EV uses on
>>> the highway - that would be measured in Watts (or, more
>>> realistically, kiloWatts).  A
>>> typical small car conversion will need 10-15kW to maintain 60 mph. 
>>> Very efficient 4-
>>> wheelers will use somewhat less; trucks and large cars will use
>>> more, perhaps
>>> MUCH more.
>>>
>>> To look at it another way, 200 to 250 Wh (watt-hours) per mile is
>>> typical.
>>>
>>> Someone else wrote :
>>>
  This AM, I unplugged the charger and found I had used 5.12
  Killowatts to  recharge.
>>>
>>>
>>> I think similar confusion is indicated here.
>>>
>>> You may have used 5.12 kiloWatt HOURS (kWh) to recharge, but if
>>> you'd used
>>> 5.12kW, you'd certainly have tripped the circuit breaker.  A
>>> conventional 120 volt
>>> household receptacle can supply 2.4 kiloWatts for a few minutes
>>> (1.9kW sustained).
>>> Even a special 120 volt, 30 amp receptacle tops out at 3.6kW.  A
>>> dryer receptacle
>>> (240 volts at 30 amps) could supply almost 5.8kW for an extended
>>> period, but of
>>> course you'd need a 240 volt charger to take advantage of that
>>> capability.
>>>
>>> There's a recurring confusion between power and energy, and a lack
>>> of understanding
>>> of units, on this list.  Oh, heck, it's not just here, it's
>>> everywhere.  This widespread
>>> misunderstanding is symptomatic of the abject failure of our
>>> nation's schools to teach
>>> basic science and math.
>>>
>>> I'm lousy at explaining this stuff, so the above is probably
>>> hopeless obscure.
>>> Anybody working with EVs really needs to understand these concepts. 
>>> Anyone
>>> know of a website which explains this in layman's terms?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> 

EV digest 6070

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6070

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) GE motor designer
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) RE: GM to Manufacture a Plug in Hybrid?
by "Grigg. John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) How watts per hour for typical car at 60 miles per hour on freeway?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  6) Re: GM to Manufacture a Plug in Hybrid?
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: GM to Manufacture a Plug in Hybrid?
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: I can build your controller
by Rocketjosh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) SepEx Motor Availability (Was Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...)
by Chet Fields <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: AGM battery charging
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Low Tech EV Drivetrains
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Floodies/Batt. murder mystery/Thanks to Roger & Roland
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) RE: Low Tech EV Drivetrains
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: EVer in the Land of Oil...Electric Arctic  Adventure!
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: AGM battery charging
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: How watts per hour for typical car at 60 miles per hour on freeway?
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: I can build your controller
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) RE: AGM battery charging
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Bill Palter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) NiMH batteries from GM Ovonics or Panasonic used in EV1, S10 and Ranger 
etc.
by "josjam123" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: I can build your controller
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: Low Tech EV Drivetrains
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: NiMH batteries from GM Ovonics or Panasonic used in EV1,
  S10 and Ranger etc.
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: NiMH batteries from GM Ovonics or Panasonic used in EV1, S10 and 
Ranger etc.
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) GM to Manufacture a Plug in Hybrid?
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) Re: Hot Rod Magazine Needs NEDRA photos
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) Re: Battery Chargers
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Anybody interested in designing EV motors for
golf-carts, NEV's etc, I hear there is a job opening
at GE in Fort Wayne, IN.  Experianced brush DC motor
design, 6 5/8" up to 13" diameter.
Rod
 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---


- Original Message - 
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <



   The problem is a 1231C is 1600 & the Zilla is 1850.  There is no chance
I'd buy the Curtis at that price point.  However there is no Zilla to be 
had
at that price right now.  Hence the problem.  Logisystems again is the 
only

source for something inbetween.  Lawrence Rhodes
O are you saying If I send them money today I'd get a controller is 4 to 6 
weeks ? I don't think their moving that fast . I was thinking how much the 
controller market is like the EV market , nobody wants to jump in as the 
fear of a small market , nobody wants to spend alot of money as " it will be 
cheaper later " , everybody thinks it's a good idea " for somebodys else" 
so we sit waiting for sombody in there back yard to do something , but don't 
make it to expencive , or we won't buy it ,  .

Steve Clunn




- Original Message - 

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Seth , I talked to somebody the other day about this , well kind of , you 
would need 2 motors and the controller hooked to each one , you can't just 
hook them in series and to one motor , they don't work that way as there 
switching on and off  and wouldn't be in time along with a lot of other 
stuff , .  but you could have 2 motors and a controller on each one ,  then 
you would be better off using one 72v pack , or 2 72v packs , not a 144 with 
1/2 for one motor and 1/2 for the other as the two different 
controllers/motors wouldn't use the same power exactly and battery pack 
would be unbalanced.

steve clunn



- Original Message - 
From: "Seth Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 10:18 AM
Subject: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?


A suggestion from the repercussions on the Curtis ('Cursit' was the cute 
name that got picked up)
discussion was that I just select an Alltrax 7245 - 72 volts, 450 amps. 
Actually, I have one for another low voltage project, almost ready to 
deploy, etc.

   What about putting two of these controllers in series, then I've got
-144 v
- 450 amps
- no squeal
- current limit programmable
- a generally most excellent Damon Crocket product (as

EV digest 6071

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

er 27, 2006 9:49 AM
Subject: Re: Low Tech EV Drivetrains


> On 26 Oct 2006 at 12:21, Roland Wiench wrote:
>
> > Also if you want to wait about 20 to 30 years, you may get a magnetic 
> > motor
> > that has auto changing poles that requires no main battery pack.  The 
> > Liverpool
> > Labs in England are now running small proto types on this design.
>
> This sounds pretty dodgy to me.  Did you read about this in Electrifying
> Times?

No, I read this in the science section in are daily news paper.  There was 
another article about a new design of a plastic motor that will be use to 
turn eight each  8 foot props for a aircraft for around the world attempt, 
by the same balloon people.

Roland
>
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Assistant Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
> or switch to digest mode?  See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
> To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
> the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
> 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Chip,
   
  You are misinformed about the BYU EV1.  It uses the stock EV1 motor.
   
  Jeff Major

Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  Hi Don,

Yes, the situation was quite different with the MIT Aztec, but you 
didn't respond to what I mentioned about the ultra-capacitor powered 
Brigham Young University EV1 which has raced at several NEDRA events. 
It's performance was even filmed by the Discovery Channel at the 2005 
NEDRA Power of DC Race.

BYU made their EV1 run using their own motor and controller system. 
They spent quite a bit of time having custom made half-shafts made to 
withstand the sheer torque of their car.

I spoke with the head of the GM hydrogen fuel cell program when GM 
was actually considering coming out to race. We discussed the BYU EV1 
team and he told me (and this is straight fro a GM official) that GM 
thought it was a great to see universities like BYU take the EV1 and 
retrofit it with their own technologies. He said that is exactly what 
their University program was intended for.

GM obviously had no issues with BYU retrofitting the car with their 
own propulsion system. To me, having universities use the cars as 
platforms to develop their EV propulsion systems, even if it is 
limited to racing events, is much better then having them shelved and 
collecting dust. It benefits all involved to get these University 
cars running.

Some EV1s will serve their purpose in automotive museums and in that 
role they will educate the public but there are other EV1s that 
should be hacked up and played with.

The BYU car has not only served its purpose racing but has also been 
on display at the National Scout Jamboree and at GM.

Chip Gribben
http://www.evadc.org
http://www.nedra.com


On Oct 23, 2006, at 2:10 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:

> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: October 23, 2006 12:10:58 PM EDT
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Playing with an EV-1 and/or GM... Any suggestions?
>
>
>
> The situation was a quite different with MITs Aztec Solar Race car 
> that was
> an owned vehicle. This EV1 is under conditions and the contract 
> states it
> cannot be made running. So unless this is allowed by GM it is a 
> violation of the
> agreement terms.
>
> If they make this a running vehicle they risk GM ending the 
> agreement with
> the EV1 going to an environmental crusher is that better?
>
> One option is to wait until GM releases the conditions of the 
> agreement how
> ever long that takes. I am sure arrangements can be made for 
> storage if that
> becomes a problem. Another solution would be to try to obtain written
> permission from GM to donate the vehicle to a museum.
>
> With such a rare vehicle it should not be just hacked up. We need 
> as many of
> these around to remind the public what happened when GM had control 
> of the
> NiMH battery and who they sold them to. Want to buy a large NiMH 
> battery see
> what Cobasys has to say.
>
> _http://www.cobasys.com/pdf/faq/faq.html_
> (http://www.cobasys.com/pdf/faq/faq.html)
>
> The EV1 with NiMH batteries could go 120 to 150 miles. Someday the 
> public
> will figure out they can use a vehicle like this To have a real 
> example so the
> public can a real car is now this EV1 greatest value. They can 
> build more
> electric cars but only if the demand for them occurs.
>
> Don
>
> Don
>
> In a message date

EV digest 6072

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6072

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) RE: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: NiMH batteries from GM Ovonics or Panasonic used in EV1, S10 and 
Ranger etc.
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Electronic Circuit Design and Simulation Software
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) RE: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by "Seth Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: I can build your controller
by Mark Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: NiMH batteries from GM Ovonics or Panasonic used in EV1, S10 and 
Ranger etc.
by Ray Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) RE: GM to Manufacture a Plug in Hybrid?
by "Chuck Hays" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: Low Tech EV Drivetrains
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) brrr cold zero F today
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: I can build your controller
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: I can build your controller
by "torich1" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Low Tech EV Drivetrains
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: I can build your controller
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---

I'd consider a 144V pack and a single 7245. Arrange the pack as 2 72V
strings and parallel them at lower speeds so the controller runs of the
72V pack and all batteries are discharged evenly.  Above some speed,
switch the packs in series and leave the controller connected across
only the top 72V segment.  This allows the controller to vary voltage to
the motor between 72V and 144V.



Wow, this is a cool idea.  I have been wanting to try a higher voltage on my 
motorcycle.  Since my controller is good for 24 - 48 volts, I could use this 
techique and try up to 96 volts without buying a new controller.


Damon

_
Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and more…then map the best 
route!  http://local.live.com?FORM=MGA001
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That is waht I was thinking also, there may be a cell or two dead and with
rearrangement, some work can be done.
What BMS module did you use? Any details will be welcome, thanks
JJ

> I bought 18 of these M-95 from a Ranger pack that were considered dead.
> It took a lot of time but I now have 16 good packs that test to around
> 90ah at C/2.
>
>   The battery pack can be rebuilt if you have spare cells.  Most of the
> time there was only one cell that died on each battery.
>
>   Too bad there are not a lot of these around.  Someone sold 17 of these
> on ebay for $5500 just last week.
>
>   Ezesport
>
>
> Death to All Spammers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   > Well, that don't make these anymore, so any you find (and where the
> heck
>> did you find any?) are probably 6-8 years old and may very well be
> near
>> the end of their useful life.
>> Personally, I'd prefer ones that have been tested to insure they
> still
>> work. The untested, uncharged ones might yield somewhere in the
>> neighborhood of zero.
>>
>
> But think of what a find if you discovered a cache of several hundred
> Panasonic 95AH cells - even if untested and never charged, it would be
> worth evaluating each one for potential use, since they aren't suppose
> to have the same calender issues. Then again, it's most likely a
> pipedream.
>
>
>
>
>
> -
> How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low  PC-to-Phone call
> rates.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

Isn't SPICE free and good?

Have you looked at it?


On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 12:35 pm, Chet Fields wrote:

Hello all,

All this discussion about building your own controllers and chargers, 
etc. has
me wanting to try and build something myself even if it is for nothing 
more

than to have more appreciation for those that are really doing it.

I was hoping I could get some recommendations on relatively inexpensive 
(not
completely professional) yet decent (feature rich and easy to use) 
circuit
design and simulation software. I have done a little searching and 
found some
free and shareware stuff and other demo software. However, the 
shareware stuff
is just too complicated to compile and setup and the software for the 
demo
versions is a little expensive. I would like something like the 
Electronic
Workbench from a company in Canada but maybe not so feature rich. I'd 
be

willing to pay up to about $100.

I'm not really interested (at least not yet) in PCB layout and such. 
Just CAD

and perhaps a

EV digest 6073

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6073

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) RE: brrr cold zero F today
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: How watts per hour for typical car at 60 miles per hour on  
freeway?
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Avcon problem
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: brrr cold zero F today
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: NiMH batteries from GM Ovonics or Panasonic used in EV1, S10 and 
Ranger etc.
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: I can build your controller
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Chinese controllers
by JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: AGM battery charging
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: I can build your controller
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: brrr cold zero F today
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: I can build your controller
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by "Arthur W. Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Chinese controllers
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: brrr cold zero F today
by "Joseph H. Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) RE: I can build your controller
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) RE: Avcon problem
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) LiFePo4 Batteries
by "Tom Carpenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: Chinese controllers
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) RE: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Michael, I notice with my ceramic heaters it works better with the fan
blowing at medium speed, instead of high speed.  I have both my elements in
the same plane (parallel) and when I have only one turned on the heating is
not very effective as a lot of cold air comes through the other
(disconnected) element.  Usually I have both turned on to clear the
windshield.

An option I have been considering for this winter is to have a 120VAC in car
heater. It would be plugged in and turned on about a 1/2 hour before I leave
in the morning.




Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
 
see the New Beetle EV project   www.cameronsoftware.com/ev

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of mike golub
Sent: October 27, 2006 2:33 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: brrr cold zero F today

I installed my heater today. It was 0 degrees F when I left the garage this
morning.
One of the pins broke off that Mr.Holmes black box "ceramic" element. So I'm
only powering 2/3rds of it.
I'm using it in a 1986 toyota pu with 120vdc, and curtis upgraded
1209B(120v-550amp) and the vechicle weighs 4100#.

OK so the windsheild was kept clear. That was the major issue. I had the fan
on full blast. The air didn't seem hot at all and I had to run it the entire
time.

Questions
1- Is it OK to use styrofoam to insulate the cab? The stuff is flammable,
but I wonder what type of fire danger there is? Perhaps coat with some fire
barrier stuff? Batt insulation is not flammable, but you need to keep it
dry.

2- If I add the second element. Do I mount it so the air goes through both
or do I just mount in the same plane as the other element. I wonder because
if I added a third one I'd run out of space?

thanks so much...

Michael Golub
Fairbanks, AK


 

__
Check out the New Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things
done faster. 
(http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta) 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

You sleep late :-)

On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 1:23 pm, Michael wrote:

 If your numbers are correct how does a car with a 100 mile range
 consuming 15kw per hour at 60 mph  get recharged overnight by a
 receptacle outputting 1.9 kw continous?

 Watts per hour is a watt hr.
 10 kw for 60 mph driven for one hour is thus 10kw hrs of power.


Is that a trick question? "Overnight" may be 12 hours for many of us... 
or

22.8 kWh.

What did I miss?


www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily updated facts about hurricanes, 
globalwarming and the melting poles.


www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake data.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has your avcon adapter worked ever?

Does it have the diode/resistor mounted inside to activate the charger?

Mike




--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> My first post:
> 
> I visited 5 AVCON chargers, and was able to charge successfully
> from 3.  The other two spoke "Charge time exceeded", and shut down
after 
> 1 minute.
> They would reset for another minute by p

EV digest 6074

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

F/TSE600-96_Brochure.pdf

Just curious...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Natalie Morales is a well known MSNBC anchor:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natalie_Morales

Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_waterIM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel:   +1 408 542 5225     VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax:   +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks   eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further  http://www.proxim.com


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Steven Lough
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 10:26 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Electric Vehicle Discussion List RCVR
Subject: GM to Manufacture a Plug in Hybrid?


Don, at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

This morning's Bloomberg Report stated General Motors plans to compete 
with Toyota and it's High Mileage cars with a hybrid and I quote: "with 
a battery that recharges at any outlet"

That is Exciting news if TRUE...   Not going to hold my breath --as they 
say...

But here is another question:  (More CURRENT ! )
Last Monday, Oct. 9th, our NBC affiliate King-5 here in Seattle,
aired 
the most POSITIVE story on the Tesla Roadster I have ever seen.  And I 
have been monitoring the Media on EVs for over 25 YEARS..  One of our 
members just happened to SNAG in on his VCR. (very low quality however...)

  I called our local station, looking for a DVD copy, but it seems the 
reporter, Natily Morallis (sp) is out of the So.Cal or Bay area, and it 
was not a local piece.

I have searched YouTube, and Google Video, to see if any one else 
captured it..  to no avail.

So here is my question to Don...Being on the INSIDE...  Do you have the 
where-with-all to find it and receive a copy for our EV Community to SEE 

-- 
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle,  WA  98115-7230
Day:  206 850-8535
Eve:  206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

Storm:

You might want to do a quick list search for Lee Hart Zener regulators. 
Get a PR2 light bulb, a 10ohm .5w resistor (put in parallel with the 
bulb), a 6.2v and a 6.8v zener diode (5w) and some 10-12 gauge wire. 
Assemble, put on battery. Repeat for every battery.


This will go a *LONG* way towards saving your pack. They're not rudman 
regs by any stretch, but for .50c each they can't be beat.


I use them on my solar shed with 100ah Dynasty batteries; they keep the 
batteries equalized and in sync. I took an old hawker and left it on a 
dumb charger for 6 months and it didn't lose water. I have 50 of them 
protecting my Prizm's AGM pack (50 26ah batteries) and they have already 
extended the pack life from 2 years to 3 now. Instead of dropping the 
pack this fall, I'll wait till the spring. Or maybe next summer.


It fills me with such joy to just set the charger to 369 volts @1amp and 
just leave it alone. As one battery fills, the reg cuts over .5a of 
current and clamps it (I have two strings). It's like magic elves 
watching your pack.


If you can see the batteries, build the Lee Hart charge regulator with a 
light bulb and a night light controller.


Chris


Storm Connors wrote:

Could someone tell me how to charge 144 volts of AGMs.  I have a manual 
charger. I can adjust the voltage and can measure the amps.
The batteries are 33Ah (20 hr rate) Dynasty UPS12-140FRs. I've buddied pairs, so I have 24 of them installed. I realize I can't expect much range and they are a long way from new, but after sitting for a year they were all at 12.2-12.3v. Seems like they should prove the concept. 


I learned from Mr. Roden to charged them until the voltage stops increasing 
from hour to hour.Other than that, the archives are pretty confusing. What I'd 
really like are some specifics like charge at x amps until ... then set voltage 
at y until amps drops below z- or something like that.

I know that the best answer is buy a proper charger. I expect these batteries 
won't last forever and they will probably be replaced with flooded 8v. Buying 
another charger doesn't seem a good option under the circumstances. But I don't 
want to kill these either.

Thanks,
storm

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What EV car conversions use something other than the traditional adapter
plate and coupling?

Here are three to start the list:

  Pro EV Electric Imp Subaru, direct drive to IRS differentials in front and
rear:
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/464

  Gone Postal, conventional front drive plus two motor chain drive in rear:
http://www.suckamps.com/index.php?page=life_of_the_postal_van

  Bill Bruder's Wind Wagon, air propeller drive (not a conversion but very
cool!):
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/309.html

Osmo S wrote:
> I think it´s important (and fun) to try to find fresh

EV digest 6075

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6075

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Non Traditional EV Drivetrains
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: I can build your controller
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: I can build your controller
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: brrr cold zero F today
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Avcon problem
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: I can build your controller
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Chinese EV's WAS Re: Chinese controllers
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: I can build your controller
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: I can build your controller
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: I can build your controller, off topic
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: I can build your controller
by "Osmo S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) unsubscribe
by "Bob Brooks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by "Arthur W. Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: brrr cold zero F today
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Navitas controller, was:Re: I can build your controller
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: brrr cold zero F today
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: I can build your controller, off topic
by "torich1" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---

GWMobile wrote:

Anyone done a hydraulic link?
Hydraulic hoses make motor placement unrestricted.


You mean a hydraulic drive?

To transmit 100HP, you need a 100HP hydraulic motor, and you need a pump 
capable of feeding it (around 60-80 GPM at 3000PSI, depending on output RPM)


Now hydraulic motors typically have low RPM and high torque (the faster 
ones torque peak at 1800RPM). So no need for the tranny. But you have a 
~85% efficiency in the pump *and* the motor. That gives you some serious 
losses. I believe this (and the safety issue - I would rather play 
around with 300VDC then 3000PSI anyday!) is why we don't see hydraulic 
drives in more vehicles already...


~ Peanut Gallery ~
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

Rocketjosh wrote:

I have much respect for the others making controllers. I have one
problem, however -- I can't get a quality controller at a reasonable
price nor a reasonable time-frame. I see an opportunity to provide
a  more reliable source of quality controllers.

I ask for some basic information (BOM, schematic, etc) is to get an
INITIAL estimate of cost.


Otmar spent a lot of time and money designing his controller, and he is 
selling it. Naturally, he would not want to give away that design. If 
you are serious about producing it, you need to work out a price with 
him to license the design.


Rich doesn't have a controller ready for production. He could create 
one, but that costs time and money, and takes him away from things he'd 
rather be doing. Again, you'd need to pay him to do the work.


Quite a number of controllers are documented in various books and 
manufacturer's application notes. Any of them should be suitable to get 
a rough idea of what it would cost. Just be aware that most of these 
designs are only partially worked out -- the designer took them just far 
enough along to get one controller that worked for a short time; they 
aren't perfected well enough to produce and sell as-is.


Or, you can take the time-tested approach of reverse-engineering; buy a 
controller you like, tear it apart, and make your own parts list, 
schematics, etc. Then "clone" it to produce your own version.


Overall, I suspect that if there were money to be made in EV 
controllers, the Chinese would already have cloned several of the US 
controllers.

--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in--Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

Steve Condie wrote:

I asked Alltrax if I could do this a year or two ago.  They said no,
because the controller would "see" more than 72 volts.


There was a discussion on this a year or two ago on the EV list, and I 
posted some schematics on how to do it. Basically, you can wire it so 
the controller never "sees" more than 72v, yet have a 144v pack. It uses 
contactors to rearrange the circuit so the controller takes you from 
0-72v, then you switch the contactors, and the controller takes you from 
72-144v.

--
R

EV digest 6067

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6067

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Mechanical control, was: Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by "John Bryan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Mechanical control,
   was: Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option. ..
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Low Tech EV Drivetrains
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Electric boat vehicles in wooden boat magazine
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: How watts per hour for typical car at 60 miles per hour on freeway?
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Mechanical control, was: Re: EV controllers? the 4th option. ..
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Mechanical control,  was: Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option. ..
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) RE: How watts per hour for typical car at 60 miles per hour on fr
eeway?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) RE: AGM battery charging
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) RE: Low Tech EV Drivetrains
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: How watts per hour for typical car at 60 miles per hour on freeway?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 12) RE: How watts per hour for typical car at 60 miles per hour on freeway?
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Low Tech EV Drivetrains
by "Osmo S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Low Tech EV Drivetrains
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Mechanical control, was: Re: EV controllers? the 4th option. ..
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) RE: Inrush current, was: Cursit controllers revisited (squealing); 
precharge 'circuit' again (please)
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: How watts per hour for typical car at 60 miles per hour on freeway?
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: Low Tech EV Drivetrains
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Mechanical control, was: Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Mechanical control, was: Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: Floodies/Batt. murder mystery/Thanks to Roger & Roland
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: How watts per hour for typical car at 60 miles per hour on freeway?
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---


From: "Jack Murray" 

Or maybe Mr. Flinstone got it right, update it 
with some good birkenstock sandals.  just joking and jabbing :)


   Ahh but Mr. Flynnstone is now driving an EV
http://www.autoblog.com/2006/10/11/ebay-find-of-the-day-flintstones-car-yabba-dabba-doo

Instead of the typical Flintstone's foot powered vehicle, 
this baby will move under its own power and is environmentally 
friendly to boot, with an electric motor under the planks.


Jb
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry, my misunderstanding. The original post misspelled steering, so I
read it as a misspelling of Sterling (which is actually Stirling).

Anyway, this is a pretty neat idea.  I'm going to have to look into this
some more.

> Doesn't seem like a Stirling engine.  They boil freon in the collector,
> drive a rotary vane, then condense it somewhere and send liquid back to
> the collector for boiling.  The cycle seems identical to the steam cycle
> used in just about any power plant, it's just using freon for a
> radically different boiling point.
>
> Danny
>
> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>
>>Odd...cheap and Sterling don't normally go together.  Especially when you
>>are talking freon and so forth.  Reliability is another issue with
>>Sterling heat engines.
>>
>>I used to work next to a solar collector sterling generator that was
>> rated
>>for 10-15kw.  It was down waiting for parts more often than it was up and
>>running.  And this was for a high quality piece of equipment that cost
>>well up in the 6 figure range.
>>
>>Do you have a link to any information about this on the web?
>>
>>
>>
>>>By the way mit recently came out with a cheap solar heat powered
>>>electric generator using a solar concentrator, power sterring pumps
>>>running off solar heated freon and linked to a good old car generator to
>>>charge batteries.
>>>With great efficiencies and very low cost compared to solar cells why
>>>could that sit in an electric pickup truck and give great self
>>>rechargability?
>>>
>>>
>>>That's the kind of ultra low tech I want to aim for.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 9:04 pm, Lee Hart wrote:
>>>
>>>
>> It'd work, just be exceptionally inefficient if you tried to do it
>>with a
>> series motor. Instead of having 80% of the battery available energy
>> turned into motion, you may be as bad as 30%.
>>
>>
From: "Ted C."


> Wh

EV digest 6076

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6076

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) e-meter RS232 Info Sources
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: e-meter RS232 Info Sources
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Chinese controllers
by "bortel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Chinese controllers
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: e-meter RS232 Info Sources
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by "Arthur W. Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: inexpensive, homebuilt, Contactor Controller...
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Disabling Civic Power Steering  Attn: Jim Schinnerer
by "Christie Cooksey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) RE: brrr cold zero F today
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Sunrise: Midnight
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: I can build your controller
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 13) RE: e-meter RS232 Info Sources
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: e-meter RS232 Info Sources
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Emeter wierdness
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: I can build your controller, off topic
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 17) Re: Sunrise: Midnight
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) RE: [uselectricar] Emeter wierdness
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) E-bay finds - ending today
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by "Dale Curren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: E-bay finds - ending today
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 22) Re: Sunrise: Midnight
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: E-bay finds - ending today
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 24) Re: brrr cold zero F today
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Can anyone point me to any documentation, informed members or sources  
related to the e-meter RS232 interface and its capabilities/ data ?


Thanks,

Mark Dutko
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark, you might want to check out Tim Nolan's Homepower article on 
data logging with the E-Meter at:


http://www.timnolan.com/hparticle/Nolan74.pdf

His setup is low voltage, for EVs you will need an opto-isolator.

I have been data logging on my Civic off an on for awhile.  I use a 
really old laptop I picked up for $5.  It doesn't take much of a 
computer to handle this.


Thanks,

Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html

In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme 
position. (Horace)



At 07:49 PM 10/28/2006, you wrote:

Can anyone point me to any documentation, informed members or sources
related to the e-meter RS232 interface and its capabilities/ data ?

Thanks,

Mark Dutko
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Recently, as part of my business interests I've been looking at, and talking
to, a lot of Chinese companies that make electric cars. I've found it
interesting that most of them use Curtis controllers instead of a Chinese
brand. It didn't occur to me until now, but is Curtis building their
controllers in China? Sorry if this has been covered earlier, but I just got
back from traveling, and started reading the list again.
Dan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

Arthur W. Matteson wrote:

I was comparing using a half-bridge module with a single switch, not
comparing modules with discretes.  You *completely* missed my point;
*sigh*.


I guess I did miss your point. In fact, I'm still missing it!


The stray inductance applies because with a single switch, you can't
 clamp the Vce within the same module. That's the whole point of
those capacitors that bolt right across the terminals.


In a hard switched converter, you need to minimize the loop through the 
capacitor, transistor, and diode. The longer this loop, the greater its 
inductance, and the worse the voltage spike when the switch turns off.


But, you don't *need* a module to minimize this length; it just makes it 
easier. Otmar has done it with discrete capacitors, transistors, and 
diodes in his Zillas, and probably has a lower inductance than you can 
get with any module.



I hate modules.  I hate IGBTs.  I would never use the current-quality
modules in my own car, and IGBTs only reluctantly.  But modules are
convenient, isolated, and easy to build with when someone else is paying
for them.


Well, I don't feel that drastically about it. Modules have their place. 
If you're paying someone to parallel lots of little parts for you, it 
doesn't take long before modules are actually cheaper.



The nice thing about MOSFETs: they're avalanche-rated.


That's nice, bu

EV digest 6077

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6077

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) RE: brrr cold zero F today-insulation idea
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Adapter plates s 10 fits Camarro tranny 
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Adapter plates s 10 fits Camarro tranny
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Emeter wierdness
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Navitas controller, was:Re: I can build your controller
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Sunrise: Midnight
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: brrr cold zero F today
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Sunrise: Midnight
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: I can build your controller
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: I can build your controller
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 14) Re: brrr cold zero F today
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Written pole motor is fascinating and an ingenius solution
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by "Arthur W. Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Written pole motor is fascinating and an ingenius solution
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: I can build your controller/Only if you service it
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: I can build your controller, off topic
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: brrr cold zero F today
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: brrr cold zero F today
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: brrr cold zero F today
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: brrr cold zero F today
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
For those with really Cold weather here an idea. A
Co-worker used this to insulate his ICE car for better
AC. He sprayed it above the headliner in to the window
frame- inside the door panels. Any place he could get
to. It stick to the wall.  Un-sure how well is would
work for you. I've been considering it for my CRX in
progress. 

www.tigerfoam.com/index.php



 

Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail 
(http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Awhile back I ordered a s 10 adapter from ev parts for somebody along with 
the other parts  . Well I got adapter plate before any thing else , and it 
looks beautiful, my first though was " I'm never make another one of these " 
but I say that after each one . I was over at a friends and he was stripping 
out a Camorra with a v6  , I think a 96 . Had a nice tranny 5 speed and rear 
sitting there and wanted $100 for all  ( like I need more parts ) . I got 
the tranny and flywheel home and just for the fun of it I took the hub and 
placed it on the fly wheel , It fit all holes lined up oo. So I took the 
plate and it fit the tranny .
Steve Clunn  funny what makes one happy 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Steve and others,

You will find that the adapter plate that fits a S 10' will fit later and 
early model Chevy engines either in a V-6 or V-8.  It even fit a 1963 327 
cu.in. engine.

There are some model years in the 80's that are different, but GM went back 
to the standard pattern where any transmission will fit any engine.

What is nice about the S 10 adapter plate, is that it fully covers the 
transmission bell housing where you do not have to have that lower sheet 
metal additional cover.

Roland


- Original Message - 
From: "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2006 7:52 AM
Subject: Adapter plates s 10 fits Camarro tranny


> Awhile back I ordered a s 10 adapter from ev parts for somebody along with
> the other parts  . Well I got adapter plate before any thing else , and it
> looks beautiful, my first though was " I'm never make another one of these 
> "
> but I say that after each one . I was over at a friends and he was 
> stripping
> out a Camorra with a v6  , I think a 96 . Had a nice tranny 5 speed and 
> rear
> sitting there and wanted $100 for all  ( like I need more parts ) . I got
> the tranny and flywheel home and just for the fun of it I took the hub and
> placed it on the fly wheel , It fit all holes lined up oo. So I took 
> the
> plate and it fit the tranny .
> Steve Clunn  funny what makes one happy
>
> 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---


On Oct 28, 2006, at 11:13 PM, Mike Phillips wrote:


Speaking of Emeters. I don't remember my meter doing this before. When
the truck is off the emeter shows about +.5 or +.6 amps. So w

EV digest 6078

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6078

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Sunrise: Midnight
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Adapter plates s 10 fits Camarro tranny
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?Ganging up?
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Hello WORLD! was Re: I can build your controller
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: I can build your controller, off topic
by "Mark Grasser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: I can build your controller
by "Mark Grasser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Hello WORLD! was Re: I can build your controller
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: E-bay finds - ending today
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) RE: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) RE: brrr cold zero F today-insulation idea
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: I can build your controller
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: NiMH batteries from GM Ovonics or Panasonic used in EV1, S10,
 RAV4 etc.
by billb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) RE: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: AGM battery charging
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by Cory Cross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) There's a Skunk on the road
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: Sunrise: Midnight
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---

Jack Murray wrote:
Between M- and B- will be 96v, which is where the FETs are, so they will 
see the full voltage and blow up if only rated for 48v.


No, this is not the case. This schematic assumes a Curtis controller, 
which has its transistors and diodes wired as shown:

_
   |  | _|_
 __|__ +  |/   \ armature
  ___  48v / S1b   \___/
   |   -  | _|   series
   |/_||_|   |_  motor
   |   S2 |  B+|_|_  |_|
   |  || D1 /_\  |_| field
   |__|__ +| |___|_|
/ S1a___  48v  |   |_|   |M-
   |  |   -| -||_ Q1 |
   |  ||   | |   |
   |__||_|   | Controller
 B-|_|

With S1a and S1b open, and S2 closed, the two 48v batteries are wired in
series for 96v. When MOSFET transistor Q1 is on, M- is at 0v, B+ is at 
48v, and the top terminal of the armature is at 96v. When Q1 turns off, 
M- only goes up to 48v because D1 conducts, clamping it at B+ = 48v. So, 
the controller never sees more than 48v no matter what, while the 
voltage across the motor cycles between 96v and 48v.

--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in--Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

- Original Message - 
From: "Dave Cover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2006 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: Sunrise: Midnight


> Lee
>
> If you're thinking of ramping up to production levels, have you started a
list of possible
> regional dealers? The East Coast has been somewhat under represented. I'm
sure Bob has brought
> this up already, but I think Connecticut would make an excellent location
for a dealership. We
> could offer the full size Sunrise II (name?) and Jerry's commuter car.
Ship us the rolling
> chassis, we build it to buyers spec and train the user to plug in an
extension cord. Local sales,
> service, etc. etc.
>
> Bob, when are you back in town? I'm 90% of the way to my first EV grin,
but I won't have the range
> to make it to Killingly right away. But soon
>
> Dave Cover
>   Hi Dave an' EVerybody;

I'm back! At last, got in yesterday Am, exhausted after a lng
drive from Chicago in the driving(not) rain. Preii DO work underwater!Lee
has covered alot of the New Sunrise Project, I'll fill in a bit, to, as I
recover from mountains of Snail mail and E mails.it was fun being with lee,
driving to FLA and Minnesota. That's a long damn way!Hope I didn't drive Lee
nuts with my simplistic controller ideas. Well, I learned that doing Solid
State controllers isn't easy!
You don't hafta make it to Killingly. Killingworth is closer, and
downhill for you, north to south! Maybe to the next Club meeting? Got a Bad
Boy I charge Bill Glickman's VW so there is juice for EVerybody.Between the
Freedom EV and the Sunrise Project I see heartwarming progress for our EV's.
L

EV digest 6079

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6079

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: brrr cold zero F today
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) RE: brrr cold zero F today-insulation idea
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) considering conversion cars
by Jeremy Rutman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: brrr cold zero F today
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) prescaler saying 72.2volts
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Emeter wierdness
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: brrr cold zero F today
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) RE: considering conversion cars
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) RE: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) EV pusher Trailer
by "Lawrence Lile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Sunrise: Midnight
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: I can build your controller
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) RE: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Sunrise: Midnight
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) RE: Electronic Circuit Design and Simulation Software
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: Hello WORLD! was Re: I can build your controller
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Nickel Iron Batteries for sale
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) RE: [uselectricar] Emeter wierdness
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) EV Controllers, Option 5
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On 29 Oct 2006 at 13:26, Jack Murray wrote:

> maybe a propane camping heater would be approriate for very cold 
> driving conditions.

Only if they are direct-vented to outside. The old Citicars came with 
ventless propane heaters.  Though I never used one, I read that when you 
turned them on, you had instant fog on the windows.


David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator

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Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode?  See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 29 Oct 2006 at 7:02, Bruce Weisenberger wrote:

> prayed it above the headliner in to the window
> frame- inside the door panels.

I'd be concerned that it would trap moisture next to the panels and promote 
rust.


David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode?  See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.  
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

I am looking at either the Fiat Uno or the Suzuki Swift as conversion cars.
They have similar frontal area (1.58m x 1.35m vs 1.55m x 1.42m)
and weight (887kg vs. 845kg).
Does any one have any recommendations for better cheap/common cars 
for conversion?



Jeremy Rutman
Technion Physics Dep't
Haifa 32000
Israel
972 4 8293669 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
RV's use one with a heat exchanger, usually referred to as a "propane 
furnace" but the term's usage is not controlled.


Suburban Propane makes one which is very popular but it produces a lot 
more than your need for a car.  It has an electronic control board, 
controls ignition and safety cycles.  Fans take about 4 amps @ 12v when 
the burner is on IIRC.  However, in my experience it is unreasonably 
touchy for the ignitor to actually get the mixture to ignite.


Another product that comes to mind in the Zodi "hot air machine", 
another heat exchanger design.  Zodi makes the propane instant hot water 
heaters for camping.  The hot air machine is supposed to heat a tent, 
10,000 BTU, which sounds comparable to heating a car.  There are 2 hoses 
which handle the room air in/out and the combustion airflow is 
uncontained (kept outside the tent).  It's got no "smart" control board 
though, you turn on the gas and light it manually.


http://www.zodi.com/web-content/Consumer/zodihotvent.html

Danny

David Roden wrote:


On 29

EV digest 6080

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6080

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: considering conversion cars
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: prescaler saying 72.2volts
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Considering Conversion Cars
by "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) RE: I can build your controller, off topic
by "Michael Trefry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) RE: prescaler saying 72.2volts
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) 
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) SOC from battery voltage
by JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Car And Driver at PIR...
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 12) Re: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) TATA Motors of India to make US$2,000 People's Car
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Hollow EV Horror  TRICK AND TREAT
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 15) ceramic fin repair
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: SOC from battery voltage
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) RE: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) RE: prescaler saying 72.2volts
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) RE: EV pusher Trailer
by "Lawrence Lile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) RE: Electronic Circuit Design and Simulation Software
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) EV's on Snow Tires
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: CURRENT ELIMINATOR DRAGSTER News
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 24) RE: I can build your controller, off topic
by Rocketjosh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: ceramic fin repair
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) Internal spline shaft forklift motors
by john bart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) Re: EV's on Snow Tires
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 28) Re: Car And Driver at PIR...
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 29) Re: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 30) Re: Disabling Civic Power Steering  Attn: Jim Schinnerer
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Geo Metros are popular, but I believe that is the exact same car as the
Swift.

> I am looking at either the Fiat Uno or the Suzuki Swift as conversion
> cars.
> They have similar frontal area (1.58m x 1.35m vs 1.55m x 1.42m)
> and weight (887kg vs. 845kg).
> Does any one have any recommendations for better cheap/common cars
> for conversion?
>
>
> Jeremy Rutman
> Technion Physics Dep't
> Haifa 32000
> Israel
> 972 4 8293669
>
>


-- 
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message.  By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, I do have a spare Curtis controller, that I just may try this with.  
I'll have to see what kind of time I have this winter to fiddle.  I probably 
won't be going to a full 96 volts however, as I do not want that many 
batteries on my bike, but with BB600 cells, I can pick just about any 
voltage I want to.  I currently have 45 cells on the bike, so I would be 
experimenting with something between 46 and 80 cells.


I don't want to try this with my Alltrax.  I like it too much to take a 
chance with it, and Lee specifically had a Curtis in mind when he put this 
together.


damon



From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 09:44:54 -0600

Dale Curren wrote:

Could you please post that diagram again for us newbies?


All I did was tell Google to search for "Lee Hart EV Curtis Controller" and 
the first "hit" was it:


Ev Archive for January 2002: On Tue, Jan 29 2002, Lee Hart wrote:

If I really felt inclined to do this (and had a controller I was
willing to sacrifice to the gods of experimentation :-) I would
try something like this: View with fixed width font:
   ___
  |  |   _|_
__|__ +  |  /   \ armature
 ___  48v / S1b \___/
  |   -  | ___|   series
  |/_||   |   |_  motor
  |   S2 ||B+ |_|
  |__|__ +|   |_| field
   / S1a___  48v  | M-|_|
  |  |   -|   |
  |__||B- | Controller
  |___|

With S2 open, and S1a and S1b closed, you have two 48v batteries in
parallel driving a 48v controller and 

EV digest 6081

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6081

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: CURRENT ELIMINATOR DRAGSTER News
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  2) Altairnano tests batteries to 15,000 cycles
by John Nicholson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) SEMA Automotive Show in Vegas
by Peter Eckhoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Sunrise: Midnight
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: AGM battery charging
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Non Traditional EV Drivetrains
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  9) Re: ceramic fin repair
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: Internal spline shaft forklift motors
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) article: Nano-Tech Batteries May Rival Lithium-Ions In Hybrids
by Paul Wujek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Forklift motors
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 13) RE: AGM battery charging
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 15) RE: Internal spline shaft forklift motors
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: article: Nano-Tech Batteries May Rival Lithium-Ions In Hybrids
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Parallel charging?
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) 50ah batteries
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: EV Controllers, Option 5
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: SOC from battery voltage
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) RE: EV pusher Trailer
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---

Dennis,

Is that Saturday the 11th for the NHRA WALLY?
If so what time?

Shawn Lawless

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 6:55 PM
Subject: Re: CURRENT ELIMINATOR DRAGSTER News

The CE will race the last ADRA race of the year this Sat. at Speedworld 
in
witman az.Its for a thousand dollars.Starts at 9am.Then the following 
sat.at
speedworld a super pro race for a NHRA WALLY.Its NHRAs most coveted 
trophy!

Dennis Berube



Check out the new AOL.  Most comprehensive set of free safety and 
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from 
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The press release is at
http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20061026005107&newsLang=en

*
Altairnano Tests Confirm Extended Battery Cell Life 
Altairnano Battery Cells Complete 15,000 Charge/Recharge Cycles with
Minimal Loss of Charge Capacity 


RENO, Nev.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Altair Nanotechnologies Inc. (NASDAQ:
ALTI), a leading provider of advanced nanomaterials for use in energy,
automotive, life sciences and industrial applications, announced today
that, in ongoing testing, it has completed 15,000 deep charge/discharge
cycles of its innovative NanoSafe battery cells. Even after 15,000
cycles the cells still retained over 85% of their original charge
capacity. This represents a significant improvement over conventional,
commercially available rechargeable battery technologies such as lithium
ion, nickel metal hydride and nickel cadmium. These other commercially
available rechargeable batteries typically retain that level of charge
capacity only through approximately 1,000 deep charge/discharge cycles. 

The battery cells were tested in Altairnano’s labs at 10C (6 minute)
charge and discharge rates. They were deep charged and discharged
meaning they were taken to 100% charge and 0% charge respectively during
the 6-minute cycles. Although tests involved full charges and
discharges, partial charging and discharging of the battery does not
appear to impact the life or the holding charge capacity of the
batteries i.e. they exhibit no memory loss. 

In theory, a 15,000 charge cycle life would translate into a battery
that would last greater than 40 years if it was charged daily, as would
be the case in an electric vehicle or plug-in hybrid electric vehicle
environment. However, in practice, other wear and tear factors would
realistically limit the actual life of the batteries to probably 20
years. 

...more


--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is any one in the Vegas area planning on attending the SEMA Motor Show 
in Vegas Oct31-Nov3?


Phoenix Motorcars and Altair nanotechnologies are planning to exhibit 
there.  Here's a blurb:


The SEMA show will be the debut

EV digest 6083

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6083

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) RE: Considering that next pack.
by "Lawrie, Robin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: There's a Skunk on the road
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Motor Vibration, an' stuff I Forgot the Big one
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) RE: [BULK]  Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by "Lawrence Lile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: article: Nano-Tech Batteries May Rival Lithium-Ions In Hybrids
by Artur Kubik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) RE: Motor Vibration
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) RE: brrr cold zero F today
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: brrr cold zero F today
by Jim Walls <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) RE: The air car???
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Jim Walls <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: The air car???
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: The air car???
by Matt Evans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) RE: The air car???
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: AGM battery charging
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Considering Conversion Cars
by "Doc Kennedy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Motor Vibration
by "Chris Sutton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) RE: Motor Vibration
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: The air car???
by Chet Fields <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) RE: The air car???
by "Michael Trefry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Paging Marvin Campbell
by Chet Fields <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Considering Conversion Cars
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) RE: The air car???
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: [BULK]  Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
The cycle life of the kokams doesn't seem so poor:

http://www.kokam.com/english/product/kokam_Lipo_01.html

2500 cycles at 80%dod takes you to 94% rated capacity... not too shabby
imho, and cheaper and lighter than the valence or a123 cells.

I have my eye on the 40ah high power jobbies.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jeff Shanab
Sent: 31 October 2006 13:55
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Considering that next pack.

I really need a little more range occasionally and am considering what
pack to go with next time around (looking 3 years out)

So i started comparing specs and it seems to me the valence setup weight
density is poor, the case and BMS can't weight that much?
to replace my 288V nominal 50ah AGM pack(34ah at 1hr rate) (please no
flames, haha, literally, i do understand the safety issue)

ignoring bms for now...
100ah 288V nominal pack is 24 valence modules * 34.5 lbs each or 828lbs,
my lead weights 1000 so that is about 3x better. 150A con 300Amp peak
100ah 288V of kokams is 428Lbs about 6x better and 500A cont 800A peak.
100ah 288V of A123 is 24 modules of 44*4 27lb*24=651lbs 3000A con 5280A
pulse assuming 44*4 blocks. so about 4-5 times better

Cycle life of kokams sounds poor, valence and A123 look significantly
better. I am starting to understand why Tesla went with the A123 cells.

now to find out the prices
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

Hi Lyle,

Top speed is 35-40 mph.  I haven't gone out of town yet to see what it could 
eventually get to.  15 mi. yesterday around town and 35 was easy.  It isn't 
a tire smoker, but I wasn't getting run over either.  I added a blower on 
the motor so the heat is down and I may be able to adjust the ratio back the 
other way a tooth.  I think I am currently at 9.25:1.  1 tooth would take me 
to 8.53:1 which could be too much.


I ended up with 8 T145s for a 48 volt system basically because of the parts 
I had on hand and trying to use this as a learner project.


John

- Original Message - 
From: "lyle sloan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 11:36 PM
Subject: Re: There's a Skunk on the road



Hi John,

I like the name and the paint job.  Outstanding work!!
What was the speed again?  And how many batteries and
what voltage did you finally decide on?

Lyle

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Hi all,

I finally got my conversion put back together and on
the road.  As the
painter was doing the paint job,  he said it lo

EV digest 6084

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6084

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: EV Controllers, Option 5
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) RE: The air car???
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: The air car???
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) RE: The air car???
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) BB600 Batteries
by "Daniel Eyk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: BB600 Batteries
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) unsubscribe
by Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: Motor Vibration
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: BB600 Batteries
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) RE: [BULK]  Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by "Lawrence Lile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: The air car???
by Patrick Maston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) RE: Motor Vibration
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Motor Vibration
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: [BULK]  Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: The air car???
by "Christie Cooksey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 19) Re: Considering Conversion Cars
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: [BULK]  Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) RE: [BULK]  Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: ceramic fin repair
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: what are your top 3 motor controllers?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---

Lee Hart wrote:

PC traces aren't like fuses -- they don't have some critical current
that they carry indefinitely, and suddenly blow open if you slightly
exceed it.


Jim Walls wrote:

Got news for you, fuses don't do that either. If you look at the
actual specs on a fuse, there is a curve that shows how much time
it takes at a given current to blow.


I know; I was just trying to say that a fuse has clearly defined limits 
for what they can carry, and when they blow. It's expressed as a set of 
curves specifying what current it can carry for how long before it blows.


Lacking this data, the rule of thumb is that a fuse will carry LESS than 
its rated current indefinitely, and will blow sooner or later if MORE 
than its rated current flows. Right at the rated current, it is likely 
to blow, but might take hours or months to do it.

--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in--Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

David Dymaxion wrote:

Lee Hart had mentioned this some time back: A small electric motor drives a small 
generator, which is used to drive just the field (I think he called it a 
"tickler"). It makes more sense in this case, since the field on a sepex motor 
just needs a few amps. I have considered doing this, it would be a fun retro way to 
control a motor. Unfortunately, small motors tend to be less efficient, so a 
semiconductor controller easily wins on efficiency.


It's called an "exciter". It's typically a small generator or alternator 
that powers the field of a large motor. It's connected directly to the 
shaft of the large motor.


Suppose you're trying to control a 100kw generator. The field power 
needed is about 1% or that, or 1kw. That's still a lot of power to 
manage with just a rheostat, for example. So, you attach a 1kw exciter 
to the generator. The exciter can generate 1kw to power the field of the 
large motor, and only needs 1% of that or 10 watts to control its field. 
So, a tiny simple rheostat can control a huge 100kw generator.


This is simple old-school technology. But because it is so simple, it 
lasts forever and is easy to fix if it ever breaks. There are lots of 
50+ year old elevators, cranes, trains, aircraft, and other large 
industrial motors still running with these systems.

--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in--Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Folks, sorry to intrude, but "air cars" are not EVs, and thus are off

EV digest 6085

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6085

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Well to wheels effiency was aircar
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Car And Driver at PIR...
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) New 70AH, 16 Volt, AGM Battery?
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: ceramic fin repair
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) RE: ceramic fin repair
by Randall Prentice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by "Bruce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: The air car???
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) : Seasons Greetings; it's Witchcraft!
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Series/parallel switch, was: Re: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Orange Annaconda flexible conduit on special
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) RE: [BULK]  Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) RE: New 70AH, 16 Volt, AGM Battery?
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: brrr cold zero F today
by "Joseph H. Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: New 70AH, 16 Volt, AGM Battery?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: ceramic fin repair
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 26) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 28) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
This is dangerously close to being off topic but we must be prepared for
comparisons so I would like to chime in here.


We must consider the energy it takes to compress air. most multistage
piston compressors are only 17% effient. There are some special
oilsprayed screw compressors that can get to 25% effient. Other than
that we need to cryogenically liquify air to get higher effiency.

So when I start with 20kwh at the plug and I loose 20% in chargeing, and
15% in putting it to the ground, i have 15.2kwh left. My EV with a 400lb
pack(lets say we use li-ion for fun) at 300wh/mile goes 51 miles.

When you start with 20kwh and loose 75% in compressing the air you have
5kwh left, the motor maybe is 25% effient so you have  1.250 kwh left .
Since the vehicle is so light lets say 150wh/mile, you get to go 8 miles.

Now if this motor is by nature very lightweight as is the tank, and air
stations could be set up. Then maybe that would be an interesting hybrid.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

John Wayland wrote:


When I get a response from him, I'll pass the word on to the EVDL.



I got a nice email back from Ted West at Car and Driver. Sorry...no 
story for the November issue. According to Ted, the story hasn't even 
been scheduled yet, and because of this, he hasn't finished writing it. 
Ted 'is' pumped about the story, though, and he's currently pushing to 
get it scheduled soon. He says he'll be in contact with me when it's on 
the front burner so as to make sure he has all his EV facts correct for 
the story. Wow, a writer from a car mag who likes EVs 'and' he wants to 
get his facts straight..we're making progress, folks!



See YaJohn Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

Steve Condie wrote:

In a related question, what is the impact on a controller in a 2 motor
setup when the motors are shifted from series to parallel? Is there a
kick back to the controller from the brief period when both circuits
are open before the parallel circuit contactors close? Does the sudden
change in the volts and amps being fed each motor feed back to the
controller in a potentially damaging way?


You MUST turn off the controller, and wait for the motor current to 
decay to zero, THEN switch the motors between series or parallel, and 
THEN you can turn the controller back on. If you try to switch the 
motors while current is flowing in them, the motor inductance will 
produce huge amounts of arcing and voltage spikes. This will be murder 
o

EV digest 6086

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6086

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: ceramic fin repair
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by "mike" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Series/parallel switch, was: Re: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: ceramic fin repair
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) RE: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) RE: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) ceramic heater core mounting
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: ceramic fin repair
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 16) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by "Robyn Lundstrom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: ceramic fin repair
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: CURRENT ELIMINATOR DRAGSTER News
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 20) Re: [BULK]  Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: Motor Vibration
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---


Welding: Fusing two metal pieces by melting the material of the pieces.  
The materials are usually the same (steel to steel or Al to Al).  
Sometimes you use a filler rod, which is usually of the same material.


Soldering / Brazing: Using a filler metal of a lower melting temperature 
(than the materials being bonded) to bond two pieces of metal together.  
The original pieces are not melted in the process.  The difference is 
that soldering occurs if the filler melts at less than 840F.  Above this 
temperature, it's considered brazing.


The aluminum "welding" rods that work with a "low temp torch" are almost 
certainly some kind of brazing rod.


If this is for a heat sink or something similar, you're going to need to 
weld it.  Whatever brazing material your using is unlikely to have the 
same thermal conductivity as aluminum.


Dave Cover wrote:

Hmmm, must have sold out fast. Couldn't find anything. I came up empty searching for 
"aluminum
welding", "aluminum", "welding", even 44810. I wonder how they would work at 
welding copper wire
to aluminum? I guess it would need to be more of a solder. I wonder if brazing 
works with
aluminum? Of course, I'm just asking for corrosion with too many different 
metals together.

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  

for a screw or rivet on mine. The tab broke
off a fat 1/8th of an inch high. I might have to scrap >it and get another. 
Still looking for
  

that


magic aluminum solder.

  

I found aluminum welding rods in Harbour Freight. Lot number 44810.  Says it 
will weld aluminum
with ANY low temp torch.






  
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is the U-Charge any good without the BMS?
If not what would be the charge for the BMS?
What voltage/amperage U-Charge is being discounted?
What kind of a charging system is needed?

What would be the total price for a pack in the discount quantities?

Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org


- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 8:20 AM
Subject: Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy


> 
> 
> This is their discount breakdown
> 
> Discounts with quantity (for U-Charge - not the BMS or BDI):
> 
> 50-249: 27%
> 
> 250-999: 32%
> 
> 1000-5000: 36%
> 
> 5000+ : 40%
> 
> I dont know if anyone is keeping a list or the name and number of
> interested clients.
> 
> JJ
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is the price I received, I dont know of any more details. I am sure
some of the veterans here can chip in

U1-12XP/RT - $860 usd

U24-12XP/RT - $2030 usd

U27-12XP/RT - $2550 usd

UEV-18XP - $1935 usd

U-BMS - $135 usd

U-BDI - $40 usd

I am sure any good charger can be programmed for this
JJ

> Is the U-Charge any good without the BMS?
> If not what would be the charge for the BMS?
> What voltage/amperage U-Charge is being discounted?

EV digest 6087

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6087

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Getting the most power out of a forklift motor
by john bart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Series/parallel switch, was: Re: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Zapi controllers ?
by "Seth Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: [BULK]  Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by "Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by "bortel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Hollow EV Horror  TRICK AND TREAT
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) RE: EV pusher Trailer
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: ceramic heater core mounting
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Considering Conversion Cars
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Im new, Looking to convert
by "Brandon Kruger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by "Brandon Kruger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) EVDL Mouse 600 Amp. controller
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: EVDL Mouse 600 Amp. controller
by "Brandon Kruger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: ceramic heater core mounting
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: Discharging in series and charging in parallel
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: Zapi controllers ?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) Re: Series/parallel switch, was: Re: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) Re: EVCL Mouse 600 Amp. controller
by Andrew Letton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 28) Re: Discharging in series and charging in parallel
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 29) Re: Discharging in series and charging in parallel
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 30) OT: Yaris heater
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 31) Re: OT: Yaris heater
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Im debating on whether to use a CVT on a forklift motor, for a pocket bike 
project that i have in the works.  Ideally where do i want to keep the motor 
rpms at to get the best acceleration, as this is a drag pocket bike.  My idea 
was that the cvt would help to keep the motor rpms down so as not to loose 
torque as rpms increased, i guess that would be keeping it at peak hp??  
Anyways any thoughts on this?
 
-
Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited Try it today.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

At 10:32 AM 1/11/06 -0600, Lee Hart wrote:

James Massey wrote:
If you're not reversing the motors, or the reversing contactors are after 
the series/parallel contactors, an external freewheel diode of suitable 
rating across each motor will take care of that.  Just as

long as the controller is shut off before switching should be OK.


The controller can shut off its transistors instantly. But it will take 
the motors a significant fraction of a second for their current to ramp 
back down to zero, since they are shorted during this time by the 
controller's freewheel diodes.


Series/parallel contactors inevitably have an in-between position as they 
move when both contacts are open. If you try to switch them while motor 
current is flowing, you get a huge amount of arcing and the transient 
voltage can be very high.


Unless there is an external freewheel diode across each motor, then the 
sequence could be:
 - command the controller off (current is flowing via the controller 
freewheel diodes, or through the external freewheel diodes, or some of both)
 - open the series contactors (current is now flowing completely via the 
external freewheel diodes)
 - close the parallel contactors (current is again flowing via the 
controller freewheel diodes, or through the external freewheel diodes, or 
some of both)

 - command the controller on

If the external freewheel diodes are something like the power schottky 
diodes that are in some high power inverter welders, or even IIRC 
conventional fast diode (such as SanRex FRN300BA60 600V/300A from a 40kHz 
switching welder that is sitting on my desk) it may be possible to be 
putting most of the freewheel current through th

EV digest 6082

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6082

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: 50ah batteries
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) The air car???
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: The air car???
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Motor Vibration
by "Chris Sutton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Parallel charging?
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: There's a Skunk on the road
by lyle sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: The air car???
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) RE: The air car???
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) RE: SOC from battery voltage
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) RE: EV pusher Trailer
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) RE: Disabling Civic Power Steering  Attn: Jim Schinnerer
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) RE: Motor Vibration
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) RE: The air car???
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: 72V Power Supply - Can I build one?
by "martin emde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Motor Vibration
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Considering that next pack.
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: Motor Vibration
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Motor Vibration, an' stuff
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) RE: [BULK]  RE: EV pusher Trailer
by "Lawrence Lile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Fw: Air car, an' stuff
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
The BB looks good but I'm curious about it's life and its ability to  
supply high amperage. I'm also looking at the Hawkers 1500PC


http://www.odysseyfactory.com/specs.htm

I don't mind spending more up front for range or durability. If I get  
the think I will make the yaris a city car that is fast and lighter  
and use the think for long trips.



On Oct 30, 2006, at 9:40 PM, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:

There are three batteries I would consider for EV applications in  
the 50 ah
range.  BB, Optima & Exide.  The BB is used in the Oxygen Lepton  
Scooter.
Of these three or any other you can name, which is the best bang  
for the
buck or just the plain best.  Is there a battery I've missed in  
this size
that might be more cost effective or maybe something half the size  
that
might work just as well or better?  I'm not against multiple  
strings.  I

would go for a bargain if I worked out.  Lawrence Rhodes


--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.theaircar.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

Been talked about.  Search the archives.

Danny

Mark McCurdy wrote:


http://www.theaircar.com/

 

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

I have been trying to track down the source of a vibration I believe
is coming from my 8" ADC Motor.  The vibration starts around 3k RPMS
and happens in all gears.  I have had my flywheel zero balanced, and
have a new pressure plate and clutch.

Recently I put my dial indicator on the face of the flywheel.  The
runout was about .015".  No matter what I do, and how I try and get
the taper lock and flywheel installed, I can not get rid of this.  If
I rotate the flywheel on the taper lock (bolt in on differently), the
high and low readings always stay with the taper lock and shaft of the
motor, so I assume that the flywheel is true, and the error is with
the taper lock or motor shaft.

I then took the flywheel and taper lock off and put the dial indicator
directly on the motor shaft.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/284377471/

and read a .001" wobble in the shaft.

So, my question is, could this cause the vibration, or is there
potential for error in my measurements?

Any suggestions?  Can this be fixed?  Is this normal?

Chris Sutton
Seattle, WA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You may discharge in series and charge in parallel just fine.

Do not discharge in parallel and charge in series, the batteries will become
seriously unequalized very quickly.

Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 9:31 PM
Subject: Parallel charging?


> What are the pitfalls of parallel charging battery strings?
>
> I thought I saw a post recently that said that if the strings were not
> equally discharged they would balance when connected in parallel and then
> the charger would be able to charge them together.  I tried to find it in
> the archive,  but it seems like most every post has charging and battery
in
> it.
>
> My situation is that I have a 48 volt system and only a 24 volt charger.
> The batteries are T145s @ 260AH and the charger is a Lester 24 volt 40 amp
> for flooded

EV digest 6088

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

d even a Katzkin interior. Under the hood they had 
some batteries right on top of everything so you could take a close look at 
them, plus the rest of the pack was up under neath the cab. I found out the 
base vehicle was some sort of Korean truck, but they wouldn't say exactly what. 
I got their brochure on the vehicle and the batteries. It is front motor rear 
wheel drive, AC motor that's liquid cooled along with the inverter. The battery 
pack is rated for 35kwh according to the spec sheet I got. They also claim a 10 
minute recharge with optional off board charger, a 6.6kw one is on board.

Another thing I saw there which suprised me was a Hybrid Technologies Smart Car 
conversion. It was out front and there was no one there to tell me anything 
about it so I'm not sure really how or why it was there. The only way I knew 
what it was was because they had a big vinyl graphic on the side with "Hybrid 
Technologies" and curiously "Dupont Registry" on the side. The fuel filler door 
has a 30 amp 4 wire twist lock plug behind it ironically they still had the 
"diesel fuel only" sticker on the back side of the little door. It was unlocked 
so I grabbed one of their brochures from the car. There wasn't much in there 
thats not on their web site, what cars they convert etc. Still I was happy to 
see it there.

So as a fresh thought in my head, I was thinking maybe next year the EAA could 
have some sort of presence at SEMA. There was actually a sizeable crowd around 
the Phoenix Motor Cars vehicle when Ed Bagely Jr. was doing his interview. I'd 
be willing to help out.

Later,
Ricky
92 Saturn SC conversion
AZ Alt Fuel plate "ZEROGAS"

Electric Vehicle Discussion List  wrote: 







Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 20:25:41 -0500
From: Peter Eckhoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "ev@listproc.sjsu.edu" 
Subject: SEMA Automotive Show in Vegas

 Is any one in the Vegas area planning on attending the SEMA Motor Show 
in Vegas Oct31-Nov3?

Phoenix Motorcars and Altair nanotechnologies are planning to exhibit 
there.  Here's a blurb:

The SEMA show will be the debut for the Phoenix Motorcars' electric 
sports utility truck (SUT) powered entirely by Altairnano's innovative 
NanoSafe nanotitanate batteries. Like its sister vehicle the SUV, that 
was launched at the ZEV symposium in September, the SUT will have a 
standard range of 130 miles, a charge time of 10 minutes and be capable 
of freeway speeds up to 95 mph.

Altair announced: "it has completed 15,000 deep charge/discharge cycles 
of its innovative NanoSafe battery cells. Even after 15,000 cycles the 
cells still retained over 85% of their original charge capacity. This 
represents a significant improvement over conventional, commercially 
available rechargeable battery technologies such as lithium ion, nickel 
metal hydride and nickel cadmium. These other commercially available 
rechargeable batteries typically retain that level of charge capacity 
only through approximately 1,000 deep charge/discharge cycles.

The battery cells were tested in Altairnano's labs at 10C (6 minute) 
charge and discharge rates. They were deep charged and discharged 
meaning they were taken to 100% charge and 0% charge respectively during 
the 6-minute cycles. Although tests involved full charges and 
discharges, partial charging and discharging of the battery does not 
appear to impact the life or the holding charge capacity of the 
batteries i.e. they exhibit no memory loss.

In theory, a 15,000 charge cycle life would translate into a battery 
that would last greater than 40 years if it was charged daily, as would 
be the case in an electric vehicle or plug-in hybrid electric vehicle 
environment. However, in practice, other wear and tear factors would 
realistically limit the actual life of the batteries to probably 20 years."

Does anyone know the downsides to this battery?








 
-
We have the perfect Group for you. Check out the handy changes to Yahoo! Groups.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
- Original Message - 
From: "MARK DUTKO" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 7:59 PM
Subject: Re: OT: Yaris heater


> The Yaris heater is for INSIDE the cabin only and meant to give pre-
> heat before the engine warms up to heat the cabin. It is a 12v core
> that sits on top of the normal heater core inside the car...
>
> Mark

Yes! Exactly what I'm looking for. Do you happen to have a link that
explains it at all?

I *really* need to retrofit my car with something similar. It's impossible
to see out of the windshield until it's defrosted. (Worse car I've seen for
this in 50 years of ever make of car.) It won't defrost in less than 20
minutes at idle... or 1 mile of driving. This happens whenever te

EV digest 6089

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6089

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Series/parallel switch, was: Re: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Discharging in series and charging in parallel
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: SEMA Automotive Show in Vegas
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) EV Needed for Photo Shoot near Aliso Viejo, CA 
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) RE: [BULK]  Re: EV pusher Trailer
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: High Power Desulfator?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) The Air Car?
by "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) RE: The Air Car?
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: The Air Car?
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: The Air Car?
by Andrew Letton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: EVCL Mouse 600 Amp. controller
by Andrew Letton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Discharging in series and charging in parallel
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) BB600 Group
by Daniel Eyk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) BB600 Group
by Daniel Eyk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Pusher Trailer
by Daniel Eyk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) The steam electric hybrid vs the air car.
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) New to the list, looking to convert
by "Brandon Kruger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) All-Day EV Workshop in SF 11-18
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---

- Original Message - 
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: Series/parallel switch, was: Re: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?


> James Massey wrote:
> > If you're not reversing the motors, or the reversing contactors are
> > after the series/parallel contactors, an external freewheel diode of
> > suitable rating across each motor will take care of that.  Just as
> > long as the controller is shut off before switching should be OK.
>
> The controller can shut off its transistors instantly. But it will take
> the motors a significant fraction of a second for their current to ramp
> back down to zero, since they are shorted during this time by the
> controller's freewheel diodes.

>   You Bet!

> Series/parallel contactors inevitably have an in-between position as
> they move when both contacts are open. If you try to switch them while
> motor current is flowing, you get a huge amount of arcing and the
> transient voltage can be very high.

>   That's how I got that great Vid at Woodburn when the Zombie
series -paralleled itseld during a burnout, or break stand! It's a wonder
that there was enough motor left to turn 106mph in the quarter right after
the light show. Only a blown out brushspring and a few arc marks were the
results! Jim builds them GOOD!
> So, the sequence is:
>
>   - command the controller off
>   - wait for motor current to fall to zero
>   - open the parallel contactors
>   - close the series contactors
>   - command the controller on

> -- Or ya tow the lokie back to the shop for a few motor
changeouts!Especially with louder voltages RR's like.

   Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 1 Nov 2006 at 10:06, Lee Hart wrote:

> auto companies use proprietary custom 
> nonrepairable "black box" computers. ... there are people that prefer
> an "open architecture" like PCs.
> 
> Personally, I think this would produce even more reliability and 
> repairability headaches. 

Only if one attempted to actually use a PC.  There's no reason that a 
dedicated team couldn't design hardware and software suited to the harsh 
environment of a vehicle, including EVs.  This might use literally any 
processor.  They might adopt some subset of Linux with a rewritten kernel, 
or modify some user-supported realtime operating system, or write their own 
from scratch.

The problem is that it's a dauntingly time-consuming and expensive (in terms 
of person-hours) undertaking, without compelling benefits that the average 
consumer will readily perceive.  

Note carefully : I'm not saying "without benefits," I'm saying that the 
average person, Jane Carbuyer, will have trouble perceiving them.  This is 
rather like the case with the benefits of open source software (and EVs), 
which for various reasons tend to be visible to a relatively small number of 
individuals.

I think the potential consumption is even smaller in this case.  I suspect 
that a lot more people homebrew their computers 

EV digest 6090

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6090

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: OT: Yaris heater
by "Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Advanced DC L91 For Sale
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  3) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Pusher Trailer
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: New to the list, looking to convert
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Pusher Trailer
by "Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Battery Spreadsheet
by "Bruce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: EV Needed for Photo Shoot near Aliso Viejo, CA 
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: New to the list, looking to convert
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Discharging in series and charging in parallel
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Battery Spreadsheet
by "Brandon Kruger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) RE: The steam electric hybrid vs the air car.
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by "John Cooper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) S-10 EV Battery Replacement?
by John Nicholson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Yaris heater
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: Yaris heater
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Is 5ma a ground fault?
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) Re: EV Controllers Manuf. Side
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Begin Message ---
> Michael
> Are you sure your problem isn't caused by some kind of malfunction. ( such
> as a bad thermostat, of bad heater controls).  Before you modify the car,
> ask others with the same car if they are having the same problem.
>
> And, what car ( make, model, and year) is it?
>
> Phil

I wish that were it. 2005 Neon... too much window area. It heats great,
but defrost kicks on the AC, for a loss in economy, once it gets warm. A
12V heater would be perfect, I think.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a L91 motor (appx 20 hours in vehicle testing time on a curtis 400 amp 
controller). If anyone is interested in it, contact me off the list,

Thanks,

Peter
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Altruism is great, especially when all it costs you is time.
Writing software requires nothing but your time.

Developing controllers costs money, often quite a bit of it.  The guys
that build controllers have say that when you start to design a controller
you get an empty 5lb coffee can.  When the can is full of burned out
silion, your design should just about be finished.

Silicon in those quanties can get a bit pricey.  The folks that design the
controllers usually want to recoup at least the cost of the silicon, and
if you're going to do that, you might as well get back some cash for your
time.

Even when you have the layout and schematics, there usually a bit of art
involved in building the controllers.  THat usually means that the
designer or someone trained by them must assemble the controller, they
usually want to get paid for their time too.

That being said, I applaud your goal of developig an open source
controller.  If you want some help, the folks at 4QD used to have a
subscription site where they shared their designs for controllers.  I
don't know if it's still around or if they are charging for the
subscription, but you might want to start there.

> Jack Murray wrote:
>> There is not any lack of designs, Otmar gives the schematic for a
>> curtis controller on his website, so there you go, build a curtis clone.
> A schematic that says right on it that it's for reference, and probably
> wrong, and has several question marks on it near components.
>
> Additionally, there's no PCB layout, or any other indication of the
> necessary physical layout.
>> I just don't see anyone willing to invest the time and money to
>> confirm it works just to have some other person copy it and sell a
>> kit, and then have a price war over who will sell it cheapest, which
>> is what happens.
>> Good for the end consumer, yes, but it isn't for the person that did
>> the hard work.
> You're ignoring altruism.  It may be difficult to believe, but it does
> actually exist.  I've personally given away my hard work in software
> development, to whomeve

EV digest 6091

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

.org,  
leftcoastconversions.com


--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

Hello John,

> The only adjustable part of the switch looks to be the brass screw. 
> Which direction would I rotate it to change the cut off point in the 
> direction I need?
> 
> Any idea how many turns are necessary to drop the cutoff point 1 inch?

If you've still got your gauge installed, you'll quickly see what is required 
(sorry, don't have a switch handy at present).

Even without the gauge, with your pump running continuously, you'll quickly 
discover the right direction -- its the direction that turns the pump off :-)   

If I didn't have any instrumentation, I'd start with a small (say, quarter) 
turn, and then make expanding turns in opposite directions.

Cheers,
Claudio
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

At 07:51 AM 10/31/2006, Jim Walls wrote:

Tim Humphrey wrote:

I wonder if you could use a waterbed heater  as a floor mat.



I would recommend AGAINST using a waterbed heater.  They are not 
designed to operated without a large heatsink (the ton of 
water).  If operated without that heatsink, they will overheat and 
fail very quickly.


What about those heating pads for animal cages?  They have GOT to be 
pretty durable!


--
John G. Lussmyer  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream 
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

Danny Miller wrote:

What do you want it to do?

SBCs are ok for displaying stuff, but you would generally not use it 
for a low-level task like generating PWM or reading current.


The low-level stuff is the domain of microcontrollers.  
Microcontrollers cost next to nothing (like a $5 chip), require only a 
few external components, take very little power, and are far more 
reliable.  They are easy to seal against the environment.

...
Danny



This might be a crazy idea, but would you be able to *leverage* the 
existing work done by the MegaSquirt engineers and community?


Schematics: http://www.bgsoflex.com/v22/megasquirt_ShemV2.2.pdf

This is a very well testing, easy available DIY EFI controller in kit 
and fully assembled and tested form. It has a TPS, temperature, and tach 
input among others. It also has two PWM outputs as well as various relay 
and communication output options


Could the two PWM outputs be used to drive two LARGE MOSFET modules with 
a current sense added? (they currently drive two onboard  IRFIZ34Ns - 
how about an EV daughter board instead) Then it could just be a matter 
of writing new EV firmware, with the help of the well-versed folks 
currently developing this fine system.


It's not perfect, but it's built and tested, and has a great support 
system with quite a few dealers already in place.


Call me nuts, but I would think it might just work - can a few EE's 
chime in perhaps?


~ Peanut Gallery ~
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
To get a bit more conrete, as a non-EE I´d like to hear even rough  
estimates how much time and money would it take to design and test a  
controller?


Osmo


Peter VanDerWal kirjoitti 2.11.2006 kello 22.37:


Altruism is great, especially when all it costs you is time.
Writing software requires nothing but your time.

Developing controllers costs money, often quite a bit of it.  The guys
that build controllers have say that when you start to design a  
controller

you get an empty 5lb coffee can.  When the can is full of burned out
silion, your design should just about be finished.


--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Apparently another HAM who has a converted S10 but is selling
it on Ebay, item 250045160230
He was also active in SARC (Vice President):
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ke6mff


Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_waterIM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel:   +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax:   +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks   eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further  http://www.proxim.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm desparate for an adjustable vacuum switch. Any sources out there?
Mine has died in a shorted condition and the 5 amps to run the vacuum
pump is just a waste of power. 1/4" male pipe thread is best, but 1/8"
will do.

Thanks,

Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes Chris, five mili-amps is the limit at which a GFI must trip the  
breaker.  This is set to give a safety factor of 4 over the current  
needed to cause hart fibrillation if the current is passing through  
the chest.


On Nov 2, 2006, at 8:15 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:


From: Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: November 2, 2006 6:58:04 PM PST
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Is 5ma a ground fault?


This evening I had some problems with my USE S10 truck (302v BB600  
NiC

EV digest 6092

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6092

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Braided flexible bus bars.
by "Rick Todd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Adjustable Vacuum switch source
by Alex Karahalios <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) RE: [BULK]  Is 5ma a ground fault?
by "Lawrence Lile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Pickup truck drag
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) RE: [BULK]  Re: New to the list, looking to convert
by "Lawrence Lile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: [BULK]  Is 5ma a ground fault?
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Two Motor and Controller Setup
by "Bruce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) RE: Vacuum system help
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 10) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Pickup truck drag
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Two Motor and Controller Setup
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Pickup truck drag
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 14) Electric Bajaj
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Pickup truck drag
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Congratulations  Kilocycle made it .
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) re: Adjustable Vacuum switch source
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 18) Re: Pickup truck drag
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Vicor DC-DC Converter
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: Pickup truck drag
by Cory Cross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: Pickup truck drag
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: Two Motor and Controller Setup
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: Two Motor and Controller Setup
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) Re: Two Motor and Controller Setup
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) Re: FS: Vicor DC-DC Converter
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 28) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 29) IOTA DC/DC VOLTAGE LIMITS?
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 30) TEST
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 31) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 32) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hey everyone,
Cleaning out my shop again and came across 9 braided very flexible copper
buss bars 11 1/2" long 1 1/4" wide and 1/8" thick.  Anyone that is
interested please let me know looking for $25 for all of them.
Thanks,

Rick Todd Jr.

Peterson Electric Panel Mfg. Co.
Department of Engineering
5550 McDermott Dr.
Berkeley, IL 60163
Phone (708) 449-2270
Fax (708) 449-2269
Website www.petersonpanel.com
 

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

Hi Mike,

I bought an Omron E8CC pressure switch (with digital display) just  
for this purpose. I have not installed it yet, however. Here is a  
link to the spec sheet:





I bought it new from eBay about 3 years ago for about $30. They  
usually cost about $200.


Alex Karahalios

On Nov 3, 2006, at 12:31 AM, Mike Phillips wrote:


I'm desparate for an adjustable vacuum switch. Any sources out there?
Mine has died in a shorted condition and the 5 amps to run the vacuum
pump is just a waste of power. 1/4" male pipe thread is best, but 1/8"
will do.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
5mA is about at the threshold for a ground fault interrupter device.  It
will DEFINITELY give you a jolt you will remember.  UL sets leakage
current specs at 3mA to 5Ma for some products that are likely to fail
with a high resistance short to the case.  

 
 
Lawrence Lile, P.E., 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Christopher Zach
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 8:58 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: [BULK] Is 5ma a ground fault?
Importance: Low

This evening I had some problems with my USE S10 truck (302v BB600 NiCD 
pack, 30ah). It would not power to Ready, was faulting out. A check with

my laptop was showing an ISO fault.

So I did a quick check with a VOM on the pre-charge pins of the battery 
pack. From B+ to frame ground I saw 280 volts, from B- I saw about 35 
volts. Not too unusual, but then I switched the meter to ma.

To keep bad things from happening, the pre-charge line is fused to 2a 
with a 600v AIR DC fuse. I figured if there was a dead short in there, 
the fuse would blow as the meter exploded. For safety I donned a pair of

dry leather welding gloves and put on a face mask.

Tiny spark

EV digest 6093

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6093

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: IOTA DC/DC VOLTAGE LIMITS?
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: IOTA DC/DC VOLTAGE LIMITS?
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Adjustable Vacuum switch source
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Female spline motors, was: Re: Two Motor and Controller Setup
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: IOTA DC/DC VOLTAGE LIMITS?
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) A hundred tiny toy car motors vs one big one.
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) RE: Trojan 6V-AGM
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) RE: S-10 EV Battery Replacement?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: IOTA DC/DC VOLTAGE LIMITS?
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Female spline motors, was: Re: Two Motor and Controller Setup
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Trojan 6V-AGM
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: S-10 EV Battery Replacement?
by John Nicholson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) RE: Battery Spreadsheet
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) RE: S-10 EV Battery Replacement?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: A hundred tiny toy car motors vs one big one.
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Pickup truck drag
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---

I believe Mr. Wilde and Mr. Rhodes are using IOTAs with good results.

If you figure 240VAC is 336V peak, you're probably okay up to 336VDC.

MARK DUTKO wrote:
I'm looking for a dc/dc for the Yaris that is high amperage and was 
wondering if anyone has used the IOTA product with a higher voltage pack?


My pack will be 192-204V and the IOTA 55 or 75A  AC/DC specs are as 
follows:


108-132V  model- can go to 180V DC as per Iota sales

220-240V model (55A MAX) - Not know yet by Iota as to how far outside 
the range or if DC can be used


Has anyone used the 108 model with a high pack voltage or the 220 
model with a 192 or lower pack voltage with any success?



Thanks,



Mark

http://www.iotaengineering.com/dls22055.htm

http://www.iotaengineering.com/dls75.htm


--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Spoke to Lawrence thanks, I'm hoping to find the upper and lower  
limits for each unit respectively...



On Nov 3, 2006, at 2:28 PM, Eric Poulsen wrote:


I believe Mr. Wilde and Mr. Rhodes are using IOTAs with good results.

If you figure 240VAC is 336V peak, you're probably okay up to 336VDC.

MARK DUTKO wrote:
I'm looking for a dc/dc for the Yaris that is high amperage and  
was wondering if anyone has used the IOTA product with a higher  
voltage pack?


My pack will be 192-204V and the IOTA 55 or 75A  AC/DC specs are  
as follows:


108-132V  model- can go to 180V DC as per Iota sales

220-240V model (55A MAX) - Not know yet by Iota as to how far  
outside the range or if DC can be used


Has anyone used the 108 model with a high pack voltage or the 220  
model with a 192 or lower pack voltage with any success?



Thanks,



Mark

http://www.iotaengineering.com/dls22055.htm

http://www.iotaengineering.com/dls75.htm





--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The guys in the USE group pointed out that my vacuum switch just needs
a good tap to start going again. Sure enough! So I've got a relay
coming that will take the current instead of the vac switch. That
should get some more life out of it.

Mike



--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I'm desparate for an adjustable vacuum switch. Any sources out there?
> Mine has died in a shorted condition and the 5 amps to run the vacuum
> pump is just a waste of power. 1/4" male pipe thread is best, but 1/8"
> will do.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mike
>


--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

At 12:10 PM 3/11/06 -0700, Doug Weathers wrote:

Whoops, I linked to the thumbnail.  Here's the big people version:




G'day All

A couple of days ago there was discussion of using female splined motors, 
ex-forklift types. Here is Silver Bullet with motors with male shafts 
coupled up to shafts that take the belt that drives the input to the 
driveline (I can't recall if the car still uses the gearbox, but that 
doesn't matter for this bit of discussion).


Replace those shafts that the pulleys are on with shafts with splines on to 
match the motor and away you go with female splined forklift motors.


This could also be a way to get a motor that is too big for the space in a 
front-wheel drive vehicle to able to be used - Put the motor higher in the 
engine bay, or fu

EV digest 6094

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

ly walked right by the Phoenix Motor Cars the first time and 
didn't think twice about it. When I walked back by I noticed a familiar 
face, it was Ed Bagely Jr.! My first thought was what is he doing here? 
Then, I realized I had recognized the SUT from somewhere. I got to speak 
with Ed for a few minutes, he's a nice guy and was happy to know another 
EAA member was there. He then did an on camera interview talking about the 
vehicle. I'm not sure what show they did the first one for, but the Speed 
Channel guys came by after and talked with him afterwards, so we might be 
able to expect some Speed Channel coverage as well.


The SUT itself was pretty cool actually. In full SEMA fashion it has some 
somewhat blingy wheels and even a Katzkin interior. Under the hood they had 
some batteries right on top of everything so you could take a close look at 
them, plus the rest of the pack was up under neath the cab. I found out the 
base vehicle was some sort of Korean truck, but they wouldn't say exactly 
what. I got their brochure on the vehicle and the batteries. It is front 
motor rear wheel drive, AC motor that's liquid cooled along with the 
inverter. The battery pack is rated for 35kwh according to the spec sheet I 
got. They also claim a 10 minute recharge with optional off board charger, 
a 6.6kw one is on board.


Another thing I saw there which suprised me was a Hybrid Technologies Smart 
Car conversion. It was out front and there was no one there to tell me 
anything about it so I'm not sure really how or why it was there. The only 
way I knew what it was was because they had a big vinyl graphic on the side 
with "Hybrid Technologies" and curiously "Dupont Registry" on the side. The 
fuel filler door has a 30 amp 4 wire twist lock plug behind it 
ironically they still had the "diesel fuel only" sticker on the back side 
of the little door. It was unlocked so I grabbed one of their brochures 
from the car. There wasn't much in there thats not on their web site, what 
cars they convert etc. Still I was happy to see it there.


So as a fresh thought in my head, I was thinking maybe next year the EAA 
could have some sort of presence at SEMA. There was actually a sizeable 
crowd around the Phoenix Motor Cars vehicle when Ed Bagely Jr. was doing 
his interview. I'd be willing to help out.


Later,
Ricky
92 Saturn SC conversion
AZ Alt Fuel plate "ZEROGAS"

Electric Vehicle Discussion List  wrote:







Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 20:25:41 -0500
From: Peter Eckhoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "ev@listproc.sjsu.edu" 
Subject: SEMA Automotive Show in Vegas

 Is any one in the Vegas area planning on attending the SEMA Motor Show
in Vegas Oct31-Nov3?

Phoenix Motorcars and Altair nanotechnologies are planning to exhibit
there.  Here's a blurb:

The SEMA show will be the debut for the Phoenix Motorcars' electric
sports utility truck (SUT) powered entirely by Altairnano's innovative
NanoSafe nanotitanate batteries. Like its sister vehicle the SUV, that
was launched at the ZEV symposium in September, the SUT will have a
standard range of 130 miles, a charge time of 10 minutes and be capable
of freeway speeds up to 95 mph.

Altair announced: "it has completed 15,000 deep charge/discharge cycles
of its innovative NanoSafe battery cells. Even after 15,000 cycles the
cells still retained over 85% of their original charge capacity. This
represents a significant improvement over conventional, commercially
available rechargeable battery technologies such as lithium ion, nickel
metal hydride and nickel cadmium. These other commercially available
rechargeable batteries typically retain that level of charge capacity
only through approximately 1,000 deep charge/discharge cycles.

The battery cells were tested in Altairnano's labs at 10C (6 minute)
charge and discharge rates. They were deep charged and discharged
meaning they were taken to 100% charge and 0% charge respectively during
the 6-minute cycles. Although tests involved full charges and
discharges, partial charging and discharging of the battery does not
appear to impact the life or the holding charge capacity of the
batteries i.e. they exhibit no memory loss.

In theory, a 15,000 charge cycle life would translate into a battery
that would last greater than 40 years if it was charged daily, as would
be the case in an electric vehicle or plug-in hybrid electric vehicle
environment. However, in practice, other wear and tear factors would
realistically limit the actual life of the batteries to probably 20 years."

Does anyone know the downsides to this battery?









-
We have the perfect Group for you. Check out the handy changes to Yahoo! 
Groups.


--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi everyone,

I just bought a DCP Raptor 600, and I got 

EV digest 6095

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

 2 15
> N 18.5
> 3 24
> L 28
> J 36
> K 40
> 4 48
> H 52
> F 72
> D 85
> B 95
>
> Third X is temp range:
>
> E -10 to 85C
> C -25 to 85C
> I -40 to 85C
> M -55 to 85C
>
> Last X is power (if vout >= 5V)
>
> Y 50W
> X 75W
> W 100W
> V 150W
> U 200W
>
>
>>
>> So it won't work for me, which is a shame because this is a nice  
>> looking unit. It's new in the box and has never been installed. If  
>> anyone is interested, contact me off-list. If you're looking for a  
>> unit like this, you can get a great deal while helping me save the  
>> 15% restocking fee they will charge me for the return.
>>
>> tony furr
>> 76 lancia scorpion EV
>>
>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I assume they'll adapt their current Bajaj. You can see those at
www.bajajusa.com. Argo's been selling those for a while. They are cute and
very affordable but, w/o doors, a bit breezy. (The pizza delivery in
Portland apparently gets around 78 to 80MPG... and the company doesn't sell
the diesel model.)
- Original Message - 
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" ;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 10:20 AM
Subject: Electric Bajaj


> http://www.bajajauto.com/press/pressarticles_arc.asp#press9
> I haven't seen one yet.  It's been many years.Now we have Xebra which
sounds
> like a Mexican radio station with an extra letter.  Lawrence Rhodes.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry, I have a 288V nominal pack but here is one data point for the record.

My end of charge voltage is  354 Volts. I have been worried that that
may take the iota out.
The IOTA is connected to the pack with only a fuse, It stays charged and
it goes to sleep nicely.
I have readlighted* a few times and it doesn't hickup.




*redlighted in this context is when I suck the 1/2 dead AGM pack below
10V per module and light up the red LED on all the regs at once(The
reflection of 17 red LED's out of the corner of my eye, a thought it was
police lights, LOL). Put that is still in the 240V range.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
 
Hello Lee
 
I was looking at your BMS with NiMH batteries in mind now.  You might not 
remember but a while back I was trying to get you to do a bulk  order for use 
on 
AGM batteries. I would still be willing to buy in quantity for  the best 
prices and sell at the quantity price break to all who is  interested in making 
one. 
 
Don Blazer
 
In a message dated 10/11/2006 7:52:10 AM Pacific Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Jack  Murray wrote:
> I'm very familiar with NiMH, not so much with Lithium,  and in particular 
> I'm looking at $6 cells, so the cost to manage them  can't be too much or 
> its not a good strategy.  I agree if you  can increase life significantly 
> the added cost would be worth it; I'd  want to see some real data to back 
> it up, double the life seems like  a big stretch, maybe if the bad cells 
> don't get replaced a double  might be possible, but that is somewhat 
> trickery by comparing to a  worst case.

I built a BMS that scans the 12 batteries in my pack of 12v  Concorde 
AGMs. Without BMS, most people only get 1-2 years life out these  
batteries. With BMS, mine are now over 7 years old, and weak but  working.

My BMS check each battery, and then charges each at up to 15  amps for a 
time that depends on the voltage differences between them. It  does this 
while driving, charging, and for a short time when  parked.

I had one battery fail (down to 16ah when the rest were  30-40ah). It 
took a while before I noticed; the car still drove fine with  the bad 
battery, because the BMS was spending almost all its time charging  it 
from the other 11 to "prop it up".

When I did replace it, the  new battery had significantly more capacity 
than the rest of the old pack.  This is usually a problem; the new 
battery soon gets "beaten down" because  it gets overcharged by the extra 
charging needed to bring the older  batteries up to "full". But with this 
BMS, the new battery survived  fine.

Last year, I had a second battery fail. I didn't have any more  spares of 
the original type, so I replaced it with a newer but smaller  AGM. Mixing 
battery types is also an invitation for problems; but so far,  the BMS 
has given each of the (now rather widely mismatched) batteries  
appropriate amounts of charging.

Since I balance continuously,  batteries with lower amphour capacity get 
charged while driving, because  their voltage falls faster. This has the 
effect that all batteries reach  "dead" at about the same time. Thus, it 
defeats the "weakest link" effect  of having to 

EV digest 6097

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6097

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) RE: FS: Vicor DC-DC Converter
by "bortel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) 91 S-10 Glider
by "bortel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by "Dale Curren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Current bottleneck when charging floodies
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) A better DCDC; was Vicor
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: IOTA DC/DC VOLTAGE LIMITS?
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Buying batteries (price quotes included)
by John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: IHRA Racing
by "Doc Kennedy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Input requested on heater assembly
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Zapi Controllers, SepEx design
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Wonderful NEWS -  Advanced Vehicle Initiative
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Buying batteries (price quotes included)
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Pickup truck drag
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Jim's Special Dual Motor Rear Axle, was:  EV pusher Trailer
by "Bruce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by "Osmo S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Pickup truck drag
by Jim Walls <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) RE: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by "Curtis Muhlestein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) Re: FS: Vicor DC-DC Converter
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Cor,
I just remembered that I still have a few of the EV Ranger DC/DCs around
that would be an exact match for your needs. As I recall they're actually
made by Lambda with a 100A output. They're water cooled, but if you put one
in a different case with a fan I think you could push at least 50A. They're
brand new in the original boxes. I don't remember what I paid for them, but
if you want one, you can have it for $175 (they're about $3,000 from Ford).
Let me know off list.
Dan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just saw this on eBay, item # 250045999002 . It's a 91 S-10 Blazer that
had the bad engine removed, but comes with a late model Vortec that never
got installed. Someone probably could buy this and sell the Vortec for more
than what they pay for the whole thing and still have a great start for a
conversion. It's located in the Portland, OR area.

Dan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The electric pusher trailer keeps coming up, primarily brcause it makes logical 
sense to a lot of people.  I guess great minds think alike.
   
  I also thought about this a lot, and every time it comes up, I go over it 
again in my head.  What I came up with is that as a trailer, it really doesn't 
make sense for many of the reasons Mike already brought up.
   
  But, what does make sense (to me) is something like the following:
  - Light weight small front wheel drive car (I prefer the automatic), power 
nothing though ...  Something like an early Metro not well equiped.
  - Remove existing rear axle, suspension, fuel tank, ...  In other words, make 
some room back there, reroute the exhaust.
  - Build Jim's special dual motor rear axle.  I think you could get by with 
dual 7's on a small car.  No way to change gear ratios, so it is going to need 
a lot of power.
  - 10 x 12 V = 120 V AGM batts in a special box like structure where the back 
seat was.  Low as possible.  Try to keep the CG balanced front to back.
  - 1k Zilla with parallel series for the 2 motors.
  - seperate throttle for the electric motors.
  - Then, you still need to make provisions for a small fuel tank (at least 4 
gal) and rerouting the exhaust (maybe out the side in front of the axle).
  - I don't know how the rear brakes would work, getting them balanced with the 
front and all, but I'm sure someone has already figured this out.
   
  It works as follows:
  - Drive it in EV mode (only electric) until the batts can give no more.  You 
have seperate throttle for the EV mode, and the ICE is completely off.  That's 
why it has to have no power options.  This would be about 12 - 15 miles with 
all that weight and small batt pack.  Then, start up the ICE and you will never 
get stranded.  It has unlimited range, can do 65 MPH, decent accelera

EV digest 6098

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6098

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Pusher Trailer
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Pickup truck drag
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  3) On PBS ' Great Cars show', EV's, Fuel Cell, hybrids  5:30 in Tampa
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Input requested on heater assembly
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) FW: Battery Spreadsheet
by "Curtis Muhlestein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Jim's Special Dual Motor Rear Axle, was:  EV pusher Trailer
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: FS: Vicor DC-DC Converter
by Tony Furr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: Buying batteries (price quotes included)
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Pickup truck drag
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: ceramic heater core mounting
by "Tom Carpenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Vacuum system help
by John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Lee your BMS anyone else interested?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Pusher Trailer
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) RE: FS: Vicor DC-DC Converter
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) RE: Pickup truck drag
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---

Michael Perry wrote:

I inquired further and was told that no vehicle is legal, unless specified
in the Oregon Statutes.


Here's a clever/stupid idea. Dean Kamen has paid to get laws on the 
books in virtually every state to allow his Segway. The laws usually 
state a "two wheel, self balancing, non tandem" vehicle is not regulated 
by any existing vehicle laws (i.e. it's not a car, motorcycle, bicycle, 
skateboard, scooter, etc.), and can be ridden "anywhere a pedestrian can 
legally walk", without a helmet, driver's license, insurance, 
registration, etc.


What if you build a Segway-like device as a pusher trailer? Two wheels, 
side by side (non tandem), and self-balancing because it's attached to 
the vehicle it is pushing.


Same for scooters: My BEST kids came up with at least half a dozen ways 
to make a 2-wheel self-balancing, non-tandem vehicles without any 
gyroscopes, computers, or complex gadgetry.

--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in--Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
 
To me it seems both of you are not referencing  to the same exact truck going 
the same speed. From what  others have posted different trucks and different 
bed lengths affect the  aerodynamics. 
 
About just the tailgate being up or down. Since all pickups do not  have the 
same aerodynamics no one is going to know for sure unless you do your  own 
testing. This is not a case of one test applies to all trucks regardless of  
size 
or shape and at all speeds.
 
For a short bed Ranger and S-10 tailgate up with bedcover has been  tested 
and produces the best aerodynamics for legal highway  speeds.
 
Don
 
In a message dated 11/4/2006 9:11:40 AM Pacific Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Rush  wrote:
> Peter wrote - 
>   
>> Excuse me, but  as was explained in the recently reference R&T artical,
>>  lowering the tail gate INCREAES drag and REDUCES downforce.
>>   
>
> I'm not going to get in a pissing match here  Peter, but had you read my 
email you would have seen that my source states  that lowering the tailgate 
"ADDS to the rear downforce and at the same time  REDUCES drag". (emphasis mine)
>   

For whatever it's  worth, the MythBusters have tested this one several 
times and consistently  get lower fuel consumption with the tailgate up...


 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
   PBS's show great cars is showing alt fuel cars
this week including EV's. Check your local listings.
 Jerry Dycus
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 3 Nov 2006 at 19:54, Lee Hart wrote:

> Both of these parts from the stock heater are AC only, and won't 
> reliably work over about 30 volts DC.

I'll second that - from experience.

Years ago I built a heater for my Comuta-car by altering the elements in a 
conventional space heater, and replacing the fan motor with a DC motor.  My 
fan ran too slowly, or my element wiring was wrong, or maybe both.  The 
ele

EV digest 6099

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6099

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) RE: Lee your BMS anyone else interested?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) unsubscribe
by Darin Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Pusher Trailer
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Heaters
by "Tom Gocze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: A hundred tiny toy car motors vs one big one.
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) RE: Heaters
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Input requested on heater assembly
by John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Vacuum system help
by John Nicholson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) RC controllers (was: RE: EV  controllers? the 4th option...)
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: RC controllers (was: RE: EV  controllers? the 4th option...)
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) EV shows - crazy idea?
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: IOTA DC/DC VOLTAGE LIMITS?
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: IOTA DC/DC VOLTAGE LIMITS?
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re:Current Eliminator news
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 19) RE: Lee your BMS anyone else interested?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
My R/C receivers sans the radio part can do  PWM with input from a 5k 
pot.  This was used to test my sailboat electric outboard (PM DC) that 
used a full bridge so would do forward, brake, reverse.
The receiver uCPU board is about $15 and about the size of your 
thumbnail.It is limited to 16v though.

The power board with the mosfets was seperate.
It isn't the hard part for sure. 160v and 500amps is a whole different 
animal.  I've got  a couple of the 600amp IGBT modules, I'll try it 
today on an 8" ADC motor.


You can actually use an R/C system designed to control a 9v dc motor to 
generate the PWM signal for a mosfet.

A low-side mosfet can switch with 10v, so that's looks possible.
Consider the radio link of the controller (with uses a 5k pot on the 
throttle trigger) to be good isolation from the power side. :)


Jack

Danny Miller wrote:
Hey that's what I've been trying to say.  The controller is the easy 
part.  There is no question in my mind that a microcontroller is a much 
better choice than discretes for driving the signals.  It's easy, 
featured, safe, and reliable, relatively speaking.  In the case of a 
3-ph drive, it will compress months or years of board development 
requiring a lot of experience into a few weeks of code development- or, 
if you have experience, only a few days.


However, it's not going to make the transistors, transistor drivers, 
capacitors, diodes, and kiloamp-capable interconnects any easier or 
cheaper.  Some of the conversation here seems to be leaning towards 
"once we have a way to make a PWM signal, we basically have an open 
source controller!"  OK, enthusiasm is good, keep it up, but there is a 
world of difference between having a controller and having the easy part 
of it.


Danny

Lee Hart wrote:

A DC motor controller is a buck converter. It consists of a big 
transistor, a big diode, a big capacitor, and a big inductor (usually 
provided by the motor itself). The first challenge is to pick these 
parts.


The "control" section is just a simple switching regulator IC chip -- 
any one of a hundred different chips will do. You can even do it 
without ICs,  a couple dozen discrete transistors, resistors, and 
capacitors, if you like. So, the second challenge is to pick these parts.


The third challenge is to decide exactly how you wire up the 
high-power section. You have to keep the leads as short and thick as 
possible. It is extremely difficult to use PC boards for this; buss 
bars or other techniques are better.


Finally, there is the thermal design; how to get the heat out of it. 
Poor thermal design means you can't even get half the rated power out 
of your expensive semiconductors. It usually involves big expensive 
heatsinks and complex machining.


Let's concentrate on these area first. These are the hard parts, where 
schematics don't provide much help, and most people have little or no 
experience. Once you get the power section working, then you can 
debate what microcontroller to use for your dash display, etc.

--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in--Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net




--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee,

I was wondering about featu

EV digest 6100

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6100

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Pickup truck drag
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Charging into the future
by "ROBERT GOUDREAU" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) RE: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: FS: Vicor DC-DC Converter
by Tony Furr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Pickup truck drag
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: EV shows - crazy idea?
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) speedometer replacement
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: speedometer replacement
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: speedometer replacement
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 12) Re: Lee your BMS anyone else interested?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Heaters
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Lee your BMS anyone else interested?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Input requested on heater assembly
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: speedometer replacement
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) RE: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) RE: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) RE: Vicor DC-DC Converter
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Don wrote - 

> To me it seems both of you are not referencing  to the same exact truck going 
> the same speed. From what  others have posted different trucks and different 
> bed lengths affect the  aerodynamics. 
> 
> About just the tailgate being up or down. Since all pickups do not  have the 
> same aerodynamics no one is going to know for sure unless you do your  own 
> testing. This is not a case of one test applies to all trucks regardless of  
> size 
> or shape and at all speeds.
> 
> For a short bed Ranger and S-10 tailgate up with bedcover has been  tested 
> and produces the best aerodynamics for legal highway  speeds.

I downloaded a paper, 2005-01-04=547, from www.SAE.org yesterday (cost me 
$12.00), entitled 'CFD Simulations for Flow Over Pickup Trucks', by some GM 
engineers. One of the conclusions was "Compared with the short box case, the 
drag coefficient for the long box case was found to be LOWER". (Caps mine)

So again we have a study that says one thing and somebody that says another 
This is typical of studies... they are sort of like the bible, they can be 
shown to prove everything. 

Even if there is a disadvantage/advantage to having the tailgate up/down, it 
probably so minimal that it is not worth the time we have spent on it.

Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org


--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

ALTERNATIVE ENERGY

Charging into the future
Cedar Park startup bets it can produce a mass-market power storage device
for electric cars.
By Dan Zehr

AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF


Sunday, November 05, 2006


Tucked away in a Cedar Park business center, a small startup called EEStor
Inc. is building an energy storage device that could finally usher in the
era of the electric car. Or the company's technology could fizzle out like
all the other ideas that were destined to banish the internal-combustion
engine to a quaint corner of the Smithsonian.

Given the all-or-nothing buzz building around EEStor (pronounced E-Store),
it comes as no surprise the company has said almost nothing publicly. It
declined to comment for this story as well. But a patent the company earned
in April, along with a $3 million investment from the world's top venture
capital firm, hints that EEStor might be closer to "all" than it is to
"nothing."

The company has come up with a new method for making ultracapacitors,
battery-like devices that can store large amounts of electricity. EEStor's
energy storage unit can hold enough charge to power a car 300 miles,
according to its patent, and it can be recharged in the time it takes to
pump a tank of gas. And it can do that at only a small, if any, premium to
the cost of a gas-powered engine.

"That's why the technology that EEStor is developing really breaks the
mold," said Ian Clifford, CEO of Feel Good Cars Corp., a Canadian
electric-vehicle company that has signed a deal to put EEStor units in its
cars. "It's low weight, low cost and it has the rapid recharge technology
that suddenly makes electric vehicles viable."

Those barriers have kept electric vehicles off the road in any significant
numbers, Clifford said, and the situation will remain that way until
manufacturers can produce a vehicle that acts much more like a
gasoline-powered car.

In the 1990s, the major automakers sold several thousand electric cars under
California's zero-emissions mandate. The c

EV digest 6101

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6101

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Current bottleneck when charging floodies
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Pickup truck drag
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: speedometer replacement
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: speedometer replacement
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) RE: Vicor DC-DC Converter
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Heaters
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) RE: Heaters
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) RE: Input requested on heater assembly
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) RE: Vicor DC-DC Converter
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) RE: FS: Vicor DC-DC Converter
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Vicor DC-DC Converter
by Tony Furr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) RE: FS: Vicor DC-DC Converter
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: IOTA DC/DC VOLTAGE LIMITS?
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: speedometer replacement
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: speedometer replacement
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) RE: Input requested on heater assembly
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Heaters
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 18) Re: speedometer replacement
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 19) Re: speedometer replacement
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: Two Motor and Controller Setup
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Heaters
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Renewable Energy Idea
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 23) Re: Two Motor and Controller Setup
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Sources of ceramic heater elements?
by JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
If the voltage and current both rise at the same time, there is a problem
with the charger. Not the batteries.

Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


- Original Message - 
From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 6:43 AM
Subject: Current bottleneck when charging floodies


> What does it mean when your charger is set for 17-20A;
> current knob about 175, and the batteries start
> tapering the current off to 7A for awhile (like at
> 158V on a 144V pack?
> Gradually the current and voltage both rise, but it's
> weird and never used to do this.  Does it indicate
> aging batteries?
> Thanks,
>
> Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic?  My $20 video/DVD
> has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
> Learn more at:
> www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
>   
>  __/__|__\ __
>   =D---/-  - \
>  'O'-'O'-'
> Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
>
>
>
>


> We have the perfect Group for you. Check out the handy changes to Yahoo!
Groups
> (http://groups.yahoo.com)
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The subject was misleading -- I'm starting with a Porsche. One reason I chose 
it was it goes fast on low horsepower (as street legal production cars go, 
anyway).

- Original Message 
From: Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2006 2:20:20 PM
Subject: RE: Pickup truck drag

David,

> I want my conversion to be very aerodynamic.

Then don't start with a pickup.
Use any modern family sedan and you will have
about twice as good aerodynamics (Cd) as a pickup
or choose a 2-seater that you like based on even
lower Cd, your choice.

If you want a pichup because you use it as a utility
vehicle (not to commute in to work with your briefcase)
then all you can do is check the aero mods that someone
posted some pictures of a while ago, including a
tapered bed cover and belly pan.






--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

>> I instrumented my trike with a Sigma bicycle speedometer.  Cost - $23

Brilliant!

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
In a message dated 11/4/2006 9:26:11 PM Mountain Standard Time,  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:


Sent:  Saturday, November 04, 2006 8:40 PM
Subject: speedometer  replacement




After tearing my dash board apart in 86 toyota pu,  I
was wondering about the speedometer. It takes up lots
of  space, and gives very little information.
Is there a ev replacement  part that would snap into
place for the speed and odometer?
What options do I have?






I instrumented my trike with a Sigma bicycle speedometer.  Cost - $23  
dollars, delivered.
Uses a magnet pickup that clips to the spokes.  I set the input once  on set 
up by calculating the circumference o

EV digest 6102

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6102

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: A hundred tiny toy car motors vs one big one.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Sources of ceramic heater elements?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) L.A. Electric Cars
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Heater Voltage Choice/Easy Install
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: speedometer replacement
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Heaters
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: speedometer replacement
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Sunrise: Midnight
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: A hundred tiny toy car motors vs one big one.
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: Lee your BMS anyone else interested?
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: FS: Vicor DC-DC Converter
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: FS: Vicor DC-DC Converter
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Input requested on heater assembly
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Heaters
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Input requested on heater assembly
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Vicor DC-DC Converter
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Input requested on heater assembly
by John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: EV shows - crazy idea?
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Lee your BMS anyone else interested?
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Odyssey at SEMA video
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Motor control schematics
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 22) Re: Sunrise: Midnight
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: Motor control schematics
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: Sources of ceramic heater elements?
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
The Cloud ETEK Metro comes to mind.  Lawrence Rhodes...
- Original Message - 
From: "Jack Murray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 3:38 PM
Subject: Re: A hundred tiny toy car motors vs one big one.


> Have you ever seen a big motor made up of a bunch of small ones?
> No?  Then it must be more efficient to build one bigger one.
> That said, a ring of 100 small motors would be cool, and I'd like to
> encourage you to build one so I can see it.
> Jack
>
> GWMobile wrote:
> > Does the efficiency of a motor go up or down with size?
> >
> > Just out of curiousity would a thouasand toy electric car motors linked
> > to a drive wheel by a rim gear on the wheel be more or less efficient
> > and or costly than a single large motor of similiar output running
> > through a tranny? (Wonder what the torque is of those tiny motorific
> > type toy car motors.)
> >
> > Keep in mind you could turn off the portion of tiny motors you aren't
> > using at any speed or acceleration mode.
> >
> >
> >
> > www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
> > and the melting poles.
> >
> > www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Go to a auto parts store, and have them look up car heaters which are 
sometimes made by the same companies that make engine heaters.

NAPA may be the best ones, because independent auto parts store in you 
location may not even get into car heaters.

My heater is a Cab Heater made by Phillips which has a U-bracket for 
mounting under the dash.  My is mounted way back, so you do not see it.

It's a 120 VAC 640 watt which comes off a separate on board circuit breaker 
which is tap off the neutral, ground and one line of the 240 volt input plug 
terminal block.

I only have to preheat the 640 watt for about 15 minutes at 30 below and the 
cab will be up to 80 degrees.  I than can transfer to a onboard 120 VAC 60 
Hz inverter if needed.

Roland


- Original Message - 
From: "JS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 9:27 AM
Subject: Sources of ceramic heater elements?


> It has not been below freezing in a few years in Southern California,
> But I would like to preheat my conversion before taking my
> granddaughter to school. I prefer 220v, but can use 120v AC or DC.
>
> Where is a source of ceramic heater elements?
>
> John, in Sylmar, CA
>
> 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>From the ET List.  Just passing this on.  Lawrence Rhodes..

. L.A. Electric Cars
Posted by: "Remy Chevalier" [EMAIL PROTECTED] cleannewworld
Date: Fri Nov 3, 2006 11:12 am (PST)

Cars & Good Music Go Hand in Hand
November 1st, 2006 by Danelle
http://www.eco-chick.com/?p=584


When I was growing up in the suburbs, I would just love to drive my little
car through out my neighborhood and sing to the radio. Now several years
later, I find that my urban generation y self stills likes the concept of
driving an

EV digest 6104

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6104

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Pickup truck drag
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: New Zilla startup questions, (HELP!)
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: New Zilla startup questions, (HELP!)
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: New Zilla startup questions, (HELP!)
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: New Zilla startup questions, (HELP!)
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) RE: A hundred tiny toy car motors vs one big one.
by "gary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Heaters
by John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) RE: Odyssey at SEMA video
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Heaters
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: New Zilla startup questions, (HELP!)
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Motor control schematics
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Pusher Trailer
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Odyssey at SEMA video
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: New Zilla startup questions, (HELP!)
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: New Zilla startup questions, (HELP!)
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Pusher Trailer
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) RE: New Zilla startup questions, (HELP!)
by "Claudio Natoli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) RE: New Zilla startup questions, (HELP!)
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) It's ALIVE!
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: New Zilla startup questions, (HELP!)
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: New Zilla startup questions, (HELP!)
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: New Zilla startup questions, (HELP!)
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I've seen the same thing on some of my messages, David. On Friday I got a
message I'd sent on Tuesday or Wednesday. The odd thing is, a message from
earlier and later went through on time.

I'm wondering if some messages might have a content that's being picked up
as Spam... and then later being released.

> So it appears that metis.sjsu.edu held your message for 2 hours (not sure
> why) but nothing like 2 days.  Your messages are being distributed to the
> list in a timely manner.  However, your own mail server may be returning
> some mail to the SJSU listproc, causing it to put you on a 48 hour delay.
> This can happen when your mail server is overloaded, as with a flood of
> spam, for example.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Assistant Administrator
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Dave,

You have to program your Hairball.  The data in the Zilla may not be correct 
for you setup.

I also have a Z1K with 180V battery pack, so the programing may be close to 
yours.

The Low Battery Volt  (LBV) was not right for me which the controller would 
not run.

Otmar at Café Electric said to set it up as follows:

BATTERY MENU
  a)BA, v)LBV,I)LBVI
   300   150   157

  Note: The BA (Battery Amp) is kept low for
a new battery pack break in.  Can
change it latter to the maximum battery
rating.

The LBV would be about 145 and the
LBVI would be 150 for your 172V pack.

MOTOR MENU
   a) Amp,   v) Volt,   I) RA
800   429700

Note: Keep these higher than the data in
  the Battery Menu.  These ratings are
  limit anyway by the battery.

REVERSED AND PARALLEL LIMITS

r) RV,c) PA, p) PV
 157   800180

 Note: For your 172 pack, the PV would be
   172 and RV would be 150

SPEED MENU

Rev Limits
l)Norm, r)Rev, x)Max
 50001500   6000

OPTIONS MENU

a) Off b) Off  c) Off   d) On

e) On  f) Off  g) Off   h) Off

I) Off j) Off  k) Onl) Off

m) Off n) Off  o) Off   p) On


Note:  p) must be on for a Z1K.

   a) and c) is on and j) and k) is off for
   for tach display or

   a) and k) is on and c) is off for using a
   tach as a motor amp meter

   This is the minimum option 1 input for a
   EV without parallel motors and reversing
   contactors.

Then clear out all the Diagnostic Trouble Codes which displays as  to 
1411 numbers.

Roland




   c) is off



- Original Message - 
From: "Dave Cover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 2:33 PM
Subject: New Zilla startup questions, (HELP!)


> OK, I'm real close but I'm at a roadblock. When I tried to turn it on for 
> the first time, I got
> nothing. The contactors didn't pull in and the only light on the unit is 
> the error light. I then
> hooked 

EV digest 6105

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6105

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Sealed lead battery comparison?
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Sunrise: visit and drive
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Ultra capacitor's
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Pusher Trailer
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) BB600 watering completed.
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Pusher Trailer
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) RE: Ultra capacitor's
by "Curtis Muhlestein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) RE: Sealed lead battery comparison?
by "Curtis Muhlestein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: Ultra capacitor's
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Pusher Trailer
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) RE: IHRA Racing
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Sources of ceramic heater elements?
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Pusher Trailer
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Renewable Energy Idea, an' More!
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Ultra capacitor's
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) RE: A hundred tiny toy car motors vs one big one.
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: Sources of ceramic heater elements?
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Pickup truck drag
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: Sealed lead battery comparison?
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: speedometer replacement
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: Odyssey at SEMA video
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: It's ALIVE!
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) Re: Pusher Trailer
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 28) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 29) Re: Pusher Trailer
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I am planning on doing a conversion of a Toyota pickup, probably  
using electroautomotive's 312v AC kit.

So that would be 26 12v batteries.
electroautomotive recommends Deka Dominator's.

If we compared Deka Dominator's, Optima yellotop's, Odyssey batteries  
and anything else what would be the pro's and con's of each? or,  
which is best?


Thanks,
Tehben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would be interested in seeing what you find for surge breaks. The only
ones I've seen are on the utility trailers. They have enough spring pressure
so they don't operate when backing the trailer. But for a pusher trailer,
you might be dragging the brake all the time, unless you have an
alternative. Maybe a solenoid that cuts the brakes when the throttle is on?

BTW, have you come up with a kill switch? If this unit kicks loose from your
car (it can happen) you wouldn't want it rampaging the neighborhood. 

- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Chancey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  The plan is to add a surge brake
> couple designed for hydraulic disc brakes, and then couple that to
> the stock Honda front discs.  A solenoid valve, the kind used on boat
> trailers to allow them to back up, will be wired through a relay to
> the brake lights.  Basically, the valve will be closed preventing the
> brakes from applying, unless the brake lights are on.  This will
> allow the pusher to push without triggering the brakes.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
hi back at you
I do have some time the week before xmas.  If you get
a car ready by then i might be able to fly there to
check it out

--- jerryd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> 
>Hi Keith,
> 
> - Original Message Follows -
> From: keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Sunrise: Midnight
> Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 10:57:16 -0800 (PST)
> 
> >jerry
> >is the prototype done?
> 
>   Not yet. Bob and lee were suposoe to help a
> coule das
> with me, instead I helpped get them back on time,
> getting
> their truck fixed, the Sunrise loaded.  But it's
> slowly
> coming together, finished the last structural part
> today,
> now just have to bolt everything on, finish the
> suspension,
> doors.
> 
> 
> >when will we be able to come to florida and drive
> one?
> 
>Within a month hopefully.
> 
> >how long after that will tooling be available?
> 
>You mean so you can produce them?  If so we
> need to
> talk about that, no problem but the devil is in the
> details.
>   
>Most of the tooling, except for some
> patterns, is
> already made.  I can make more tooling easily,
> quick

EV digest 6106

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6106

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Battery Beach Burnout...
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  3) Re: Sources of ceramic heater elements?
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: EV pusher Trailer, Comments
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: speedometer replacement
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) VW Vanagon as Glider?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  7) Re: speedometer replacement
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: VW Vanagon as Glider?
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: New Zilla startup questions, (HELP!)
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: New Zilla startup questions, (HELP!)
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: New Zilla startup questions, (HELP!)
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Vicor DC-DC Converter
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Sealed lead battery comparison?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) RE: Ultra capacitor's
by "Chet Neeley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: It's ALIVE!
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Pusher Trailer
by "Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Sealed lead battery comparison?
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by "Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Pusher trailer...legal definitions
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 20) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) RE: [BULK]  Re: EV pusher Trailer
by "Lawrence Lile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: Vicor DC-DC Converter
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: Vicor DC-DC Converter
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: Sealed lead battery comparison?
by "Brandon Kruger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) Re: New Zilla startup questions, (HELP!)
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) Re: Vicor DC-DC Converter
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 28) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 29) Re: speedometer replacement
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 30) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
The forward pressure on the tongue when operating in pusher mode is relatively 
small compared to the forward pressure in braking mode. That should pretty well 
negate concern about the switch and the concern about the hitch operating 
backwards from its design. The amount of force generated on the hitch by your 
pusher is insignificant compared to stopping a 5000 pound trailer. Compare your 
0-60 time with your 60-0 time. F=MA

My only concern would be if the valve is rated for nearly constant engagement. 
Normal use is short duration. Is there a normally closed valve available?

It would seem that a valve on the power brake canister would be an easy way to 
apply the brakes. Release the vacuum just as you do with the pedal. I haven't 
heard of anyone doing this, so probably its a dumb idea. 

Your surge brake idea with brake light activation would seem to me to be 
doable- and clever. For lots of other more expensive ways check out the RV 
dealers. They have the same problem when towing their autos.
storm

- Original Message 
From: Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Monday, November 6, 2006 6:20:06 AM
Subject: Re: EV pusher Trailer

Peter VanDerWal  wrote:

RE Surge Brakes


Hmm, won't that put a lot of pressure on the valve?  Seems to me that
>backing up a trailer will have much less force on the surge cylinder than
>pushing a vehicle down the road at highway speeds.  Will the valve survive
>this?  If it does, will it be able to open with that much pressure on it?

Valid question.  Anyone familiar with these kinds of valves?

Thanks,

Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html

In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme 
position. (Horace) 




--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We have just purchased plane tickets to the Battery Beach Burnout!!!  :)
Anyone have info about block hotel rooms yet?  Etc...
 
Ken & Heidi
 
P.S. Heidi's NmG ships today... right on schedule!  :) :) :)
 
 

Check out the new AOL.  Most comprehensive set of free safety and security 
tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free 
AOL Mail and more.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

Hello to All,

Oh boy, I get to agree with David!

David Roden wrote:


On 5 Nov 2006

EV digest 6107

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6107

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Ultra Capacitors, Aluminum Batteries
by "George F. Hamstra" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: New Zilla startup questions, (HELP!)
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: speedometer replacement
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Ultra Capacitors, Aluminum Batteries
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Solar EV power
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: New Zilla startup questions, (HELP!)
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Solar EV power
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: speedometer replacement
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Forklift motors with only 2 polarity bolts
by john bart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Vicor DC-DC Converter
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Vicor DC-DC Converter
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: New Zilla startup questions, (HELP!)
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Power Trailer, was  EV pusher Trailer
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Forklift motors with only 2 polarity bolts
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Ultra Capacitors, Aluminum Batteries
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) re: Raptor issues?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 18) Re: A hundred tiny toy car motors vs one big one.
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Power Trailer, was  EV pusher Trailer
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: speedometer replacement
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Pusher Trailer
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: Pusher Trailer
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---

Just a quick point of clarification:

Tavrima make SUPERcapacitors - I have some that are 400 Volt 2 Farads 
(165,000 Joules each)  These differ from
ULTRAcapacitors which are typically MUCH lower voltage per cell.  The 
main difference between super and ultra caps is this:  SUPERcaps are 
aqueous based, while ULTRAcaps are organic based...  I hope this helps 
clarify a bit...


Ryan Stotts wrote:
Is any of this stuff going to be a reality, or is it just the same old 
story?


http://electricperformance.com/forum/index.php?topic=11


--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here's my logic:

The only time the car is only going to be in the lower half of its rpm range is 
when taking off from a stop, in 1st (or 2nd or 3rd  if you take off in a higher 
gear). This is great for series.

You lose a moment switching from series to parallel -- might as well make this 
lost time during the time lost shifting.

After you shift, you are in the upper 1/2 of the RPM band, so you'll want to be 
in parallel anyway -- why go back down to series just to have to switch right 
back to parallel?

- Original Message 
From: Phil Marino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Monday, November 6, 2006 4:26:13 PM
Subject: Re: New Zilla startup questions, (HELP!)

>From: David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>Subject: Re: New Zilla startup questions, (HELP!)
>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 10:27:31 -0800 (PST)
>
>Random thought here: What about doing series in 1st and 2nd gear, and 
>parallel in 3rd and 4th gear? Then do the switching while shifting.

The shift to parallel has a similar effect to a shift to a higher gear.  So, 
doing both at once might not be the best thing to do.  That would be like 
shifting up two (or more) gears at the same time.





--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The feature which reduced the accuracy of the GPS signal when GPS first 
came out was called Selective Availability.  It was disabled back in 
2000 and there are no plans to return to it again.  Aircraft now often 
depend on fully accuracy GPS for navigation.


It made no sense to have it on during peacetime anyways.  The intent was 
to deny the enemy accurate GPS information during wartime.  The bizzare 
part is that during Gulf War I the troops did not have enough military 
units which could remove the error signal and troops began using normal 
GPS, and thus the military actually disabled SA for the area so any GPS 
unit in the area had full accuracy.


SA was not cracked in its lifetime.  Nowadays, I'd give it like 6 months 
before hackers figured out the algorithm and figured out how to get the 
keys to remove the SA error.


Danny

Lee Hart wrote:


Lawrence Rhodes wrote:


Not this one. It seems as useful as my speedometer. It's a great way
to find out the error of your speedometer and it's an amazing trip
odometer.



Isn't this because the Defense Dept. has enabled high accuracy due to 
the war in Iraq? They need to use civilian GPS units because there 
aren't enough of the military 

EV digest 6108

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6108

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Pusher Trailer
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Power Trailer, was  EV pusher Trailer
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Heaters
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Ultra Capacitors, Aluminum Batteries
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: speedometer replacement
by "David" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by "Arthur W. Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Solar EV power
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: speedometer replacement
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Ultra Capacitors, Aluminum Batteries
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Dual outlet opportunity charging
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by "Arthur W. Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Again, I think this "with or without motive power" could be an old tie-back.
The founder of Parker-Hannifin was towing his farm trailer (selling
cylinders town to town) when he started down a steep grade. His rig was
definitely not under power... the trailer pushed him down the mountain...
ending in disaster. I think that may well be what this refers to... even if
the truck "dies" this is still a trailer???

BTW, this idiot stunt one day because the world's largest supplier of
motion/control units.

In these states, it appears they are still considering a motor vehicle as
being the towing force. If a person has enough money to fight it, it may be
proved that the trailer itself could be the motive force... though it may
well be best to claim you were towing the trailer when things went wrong.
 (In this case, you'd be covered by your car's insurance. Play dumb and
collect.)
- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Chancey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 3:17 AM
Subject: Re: Pusher Trailer
>
> It is however, legal in Kansas where the statute reads:
>
> 8-1479.   "Trailer" defined. "Trailer" means every vehicle
> with or without motive power, other than a pole trailer, designed for
> carrying persons or property and for being drawn by a motor vehicle,
> and so constructed that no part of its weight rests upon the towing
vehicle.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
These were different that those, John. We naturally had the "safety chains."
These are designed so the trailer comes loose from the hitch and your towing
vehicle now tows a trailer, often with its tongue digging into the pavement,
and whipping side to side (depending on the chain length) but is still
hooked to your vehicle. For these, there's no length specified, nor a weight
requirement. Many users choose a very light chain... so the towed vehicle
comes loose (breaks a link) at low force... rather than dragging the towing
vehicle to its death. Still attached to the vehicle, this can very quickly
become an out of control condition, even on very short chains. The only
recovery of such a vehicle I've heard of was at fairly low speed.

These were in addition that that requirement. (I still think the failure was
that the hitch was not ratched down completely, or at all.) But, these
chains kept the hitch near or on the ball. These were about 6" in length and
bolted to the hitch itself. So, if the hitch broke or wasn't tied down, all
the damage would be contained... you wouldn't have the trailer jumping into
the tailgate of the truck, or dropping below the bumper. This was additional
insurance.

Of course, the owner also required that everyone "lock" their trailer in
place, despite the chains. He didn't have any more failures, once the
couplers were replaced and chains installed... no more tests to see if the
chains were successful. As said, I think he simply forgot to lock the system
down... but w/ the requirement of a "bolt" being added to the hitch, the
problem never reoccurred. A bolt could not be put through a latch, unless it
latched *above* the ball... and that's fairly obvious. (I personally had
times when I couldn't get the latch to latch enough to get the bolt into
place... so had to "jerk" the town vehicle to get it to latch.)

- Original Message - 
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 2:55 PM
Subject: Re: EV pusher Trailer


> At 12:41 PM 11/6/2006, Michael wrote:
> >For one of our utility trail

EV digest 6109

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6109

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) RE: Heaters
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) RE: Input requested on heater assembly
by "Hartsell, Fred" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Ultra Capacitors, Aluminum Batteries
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Dual outlet opportunity charging
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Ultra Capacitors, Aluminum Batteries
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Forklift motors with only 2 polarity bolts
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Forklift motors with only 2 polarity bolts
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Input requested on heater assembly
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) RE: Ultra capacitor's
by Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: speedometer replacement
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Forklift motors with only 2 polarity bolts
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Dual outlet opportunity charging
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: New Zilla startup questions, (HELP!)
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Ultra Capacitors, Aluminum Batteries
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: LED brakelights (Vacuum switch)
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: LED brakelights (Vacuum switch)
by Joel Hacker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Wow, truly those are some exceptional heatsinks.  What kind of 
device-to-sink thermal impedance can you achieve?


I did agree with your note that the device on-state voltage drop would 
be a better case than Lee estimated, btw. 

Now also you're not taking into account switching losses though.  Do you 
have any estimate on those?


Danny

Arthur W. Matteson wrote:


Lee said the heatsink temperature was 50*C.  Given that parameter, I
calculated the current correctly.  Even if he had said that the ambient
temperature were 50*C, his current calculation is still too low because
it doesn't account for the lower voltage drop due to the lower-than-600A
current and the higher-than-25*C junction temperature.

Clearly, a brief websearch is not going to teach you much (at least if
you interpret the results incorrectly).  The heatsink in question is
obviously larger than that of a CPU.

These are the heatsinks we use at work:
http://www.d6industries.com/HeatSinks.htm

Even the worst on that page is 0.15*C/W, and it can fit in a 5" cube!
This would barely hold the module anyway.  The water-cooled heatsink I'm
using for my project is around 0.006*C/W, and could fit about four
modules.  This would still be one-quarter of the thermal resistance Lee
quoted (but the value doesn't matter anyway, as I said above).

- Arthur

 

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tom Gocze wrote: 

> You could get real fancy with thermal storage, but there is 
> some mass in the vehicle cab.

I haven't seen it mentioned in thie thread yet, but a possibility that
Lee Hart once suggested is to use your battries as the thermal storage.
The rationale is that the batteries like to be kept at temperatures that
are comfortable for people, and will perform their best when warm.  If
it is cool enough out that you need cabin heat, then it is probably cool
enough that your batteries would benefit from some heating.

So, insulate the battery boxes and heat your batteries when
parked/charging using heating pads, etc. powered from the AC line.  When
driving, have a fan circulate cabin air through the battery boxes to
heat the cabin.  There is still a good chance that there will be some
smell to the heated air (battery smell), but probably less objectionable
than brush dust, etc. as would result if motor cooling exhaust were
circulated.  More efficient than burning traction energy up in a
resistor or even than running a ceramic heater, however, thre is no
doubt that the ceramic heater is really going to result in the best
quality of cabin heat.

Cheers,

Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am getting ready to wire up my heater and I thought about just putting
in a separate 12 volt switch to handle the relay.  I would also use this
switch to send 12 volts to the fan switch so that it would not be able
to run until I turn on the primary switch.  Would this be okay to use?

Fred 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 11:51 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Input requested on heater assembly

Dave Cover wrote:
> Non-EE question: How does power generated on the CONTROLLED circuit
> of a relay affect the CONTROLLING circuit? If you cut power to the
> solenoid of the relay, how does the fan (generat

EV digest 6110

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6110

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Dual outlet opportunity charging
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Dual outlet opportunity charging
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Electric Man pulls Chariot
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Vicor DC-DC Converter
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Vicor DC-DC Converter
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Solar EV power
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Input requested on heater assembly
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Heaters
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) RE: Dual outlet opportunity charging
by Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Electric Man pulls Chariot
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) motor roughness?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 13) Re: Electric Man pulls Chariot
by Andrew Letton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: motor roughness?
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: motor roughness?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: motor roughness?
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Forklift motors with only 2 polarity bolts
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: motor roughness?
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: motor roughness?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Begin Message ---
OK...
Block heaters for trucks can use 1500 watts, so every
block heater outlet has its own 20 amp breaker.

What I don't know if they are on the red&white wire or
the black&white wire.

Would it matter if I used two outlets that where on
the same "phase" (black&white) but each had its own
breaker?

If necessary I could open up the outlets and see, and
take some measurements as wel, but I wanted something
more universal.

thanks again.  

--- Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hello Mike,
> 
> If the outlets are on the same phase, and the
> circuit is limit to 20 amps, 
> then you can only draw up to about 18 amps.
> 
> If the outlets are on two separate phases, where you
> would read 240 volts 
> between the two outlets, than you can run two
> circuits of 18 amps.
> 
> Note: It is preferred to stay at 16 amps on a 20 amp
> outlet which is 80%. 
> Sometimes the 18 amps will overheat a thermo circuit
> breaker instead of a 
> magnetic circuit breaker.
> 
> Roland
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "mike golub" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 12:46 AM
> Subject: Dual outlet opportunity charging
> 
> 
> >
> >
> > First, all the outlets for block heaters here in
> > Fairbanks, AK are on 20 amp breakers.
> >
> > Sometimes I'll park somewhere, and I can have
> access
> > to two 20 amp outlets.
> >
> > I was wondering if I could connect each outlet to
> a
> > separate diode bridge and then parallel the output
> for
> > my 120v dc battery pack. (Take the +168v from each
> > bridge and each -168v from each bridge, and
> applying
> > them to my batteries).
> >
> > Can that work?
> >
> > thanks,
> > Michael
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
__
> > Sponsored Link
> >
> > Talk more and pay less. Vonage can save you up to
> $300 a year on your 
> > phone bill.
> > Sign up now. http://www.vonage.com/startsavingnow/
> >
> > 
> 
> 




 

Sponsored Link

Get a free Motorola Razr! Today Only! 
Choose Cingular, Sprint, Verizon, Alltel, or T-Mobile. 
http://www.letstalk.com/inlink.htm?to=592913
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The block heaters typically have the 20amp breaker
where the outlet is. If not you can walk about 30 feet
to the clearly marked box. Most outlets are numbered,
and are clearly written which outlet is which. So
sometimes you can walk the 30 feet look into the
circuit breaker box and see that they are both on
separate circuits and if they are on different
"phases".

But the question remains is it ok to make something
universal that would use to extension cords to
separate   diode bridges.  I know each will have its
own 20 amp breaker, but not always on the same phase.

thanks

--- steve clunn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "mike golub" >
> > I was wondering if I could connect each outlet to
> a
> > separate diode bridge and then parallel the output
> for
> > my 120v dc battery pack. (Take the +168v from each
> > bridge and each -168v from each bridge, and
> applying
> > them to my batteries).
> >
> > Can that work?
> >
> Only if each out let is on the same leg and if they
> both or on different 
> brakers.  You can tell if they are on the same leg
> buy using a meter and 
> putting it across the two hot leads , if it reads 0
> then your on the same 
> leg , if not it will read 240 ( 

EV digest 6111

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6111

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) VW on Ebay
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: motor roughness
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  3) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: motor roughness?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dana Havranek)
  5) Re: Heaters
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) RE: motor roughness?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) one more done
by Sharon G Alexander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Input requested on heater assembly
by John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) RE: EV pusher Trailer
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) RE: Dual outlet opportunity charging
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) RE: Solar EV power
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Vacuum switch relayed, was: LED brakelights (Vacuum switch)
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) RE: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: motor roughness
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
One of our members had put up a VW that he just converted...
Ebay 260049662109

Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks guys for the great quick advice.

Maybe it is the brake being tight.  The mechanic recently tightened the
EBrake and who knows what the fronts are up to.  He just freed up the
calipers

Well, I'll do the free wheel thing Jim advised to see and feel what I can.

True, no noise nor anything out of the ordinary after the motor is
rotating.

Roland, what was the cost of all those modifications to your GE? just as a
curiosity of what motor repairs are.

Thanks, Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I agree that the EV pusher trailer is a bad idea. But not because of the
> fuel mileage that you suggest. Most trailers that I've towed have resulted
> in less than 1 or 2 mpg loss. And that is with heavy trailers up over my
> cab
> pushing the wind. Some trailers (lower profile) have actually IMPROVED my
> mileage even while loaded.

You are talking about towing a trailer with a TRUCK, my comment was about
towing a trailer with a small car.  Big difference, especially when
talking the effect on mileage.
Either way your end result is near the same mileage, the truck looses
less, but starts at a lower mileage to begin with.

>
> However I still believe an Electric pusher is a bad idea. Especially if it
> is to be used only occasionally, which I believe it would. The batteries
> will die of old age before they get any use.
>
> However, having said all that, I am contemplating building one for my
> bicycle (13 mi each way to work).
>
> Bikes and cars are completely different in this aspect though

Totally agree. Electric pushers for bikes are a decent idea.  Keeps the
weight off the bike and helps folks (who might not otherwise) get some
exercise.

Mounting a motor and batteries on a bike tends to make it top heavy.  Not
that big of a deal while you're riding it, but a nuisance when you try to
park it.

Of course, if you ride a lot, then the electric motor become superfluous. 
Even people in moderate good shape can out perform most e-bikes and folks
in good shape can out perform ALL of the legal e-bicycles.

-- 
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message.  By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

Ben,

It would be interesting to hear if  you encounter any roughness after coasting 
to a stop and not applying the brakes. 
It would also be interesting to hear if you feel any roughness as you coast to 
a stop?
That might provide a clue.

Dana

 -- Original message --
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Do you hear a pop sound?  Could it be a brake that sticks?
> 
> --
> In Friendship,  Ted
> //ted.sanders.home.comcast.net
> //ffni.home.comcast.net
> 
>  -- Original message --
> From: Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Hey Ben
> > 
> > This doesn't sound like a typical motor problem.  If
> > the armature was dragging against the pole shoes then
> > you'd hear it all the time. I really can't think of
> > anything that would lock up a 9" motor at 156 volts.
> > 
> > Have you tried lifting the cars drive axle to run it
> > without driving to better hear / experience this??
> > Thought this might be an option being you don't want
> > to pull the motor out.  I'f you'd like send me a pic
> > of the brushes and I can confirm if they are still
> > good for you and knock that one off the list.  Heck
> > grab a video of it running if ya want and I'll put an
> > ear to it as well, but I don't believe y

EV digest 6112

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6112

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) RE: Ultra Capacitors, Aluminum Batteries
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Solar EV power
by "Christie Cooksey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) RE: Power Trailer, was  EV pusher Trailer
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Forklift motors with only 2 polarity bolts
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: VW Vanagon as Glider?
by Jude Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: [BULK]  Re: EV pusher Trailer
by Jude Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) RE: EV pusher Trailer
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: Vacuum switch relayed, was: LED brakelights (Vacuum switch)
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) RE: Heaters
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) unsubscribe
by Pat Mackey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) 1966 Karmann Ghia on Craigslist $1900 looks in good state
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) A trip to Voltage Vehicles.  Xebra Test drive.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Power Trailer, was  EV pusher Trailer
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Solectria Force on ebay
by "mike young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: one more done
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) RE: 1966 Karmann Ghia on Craigslist $1900 looks in good state
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Danny,

I think the EEstor patent was mentioned often enough,
they have very many parallel capacitors (over 2000) so
the current to each one is very low - charging them to
3500V in 6 minutes involves over 1/2 MW, which translates
in around 150A at that voltage, which means that each 
capacitor sees less than 100 mA.

Nobody said that you would be able to charge in minutes
>at your house<.
Very few people have 1/2MW service.
But likewise, very few people can supply thousands of
gallons of fuel from home.
Maybe a 40 gal drum of Biodiesel every other day...

The idea was that there would be electric service stations
that have the middle-voltage hookup to supply a few MegaWatt
for parallel fill-up of a few EVs, just like todays gas
station has 4 or 8 or sometimes 20 pumps, filling cars from
the large undergound tanks in minutes.
No real surprises and this technology exists today.
Think trains and you know how high-power electronics works
to deliver enough watts from a high V, high A hookup.

At home it would be interesting to fill up in an hour or so,
in case you get home for lunch and want to take off again
in the afternoon, or come back from work at dinner and
like to make a trip in the evening.
Recharging in 1 hour takes roughly 50kW which is over
200A at 240V. That is a lot, but not impossible at home.

It is not required though, if you have the electric service
station on your route - pull in and refill in minutes like
almost everyone does today. At home you can refill during
the night at reduced rate without taxing your existing service.

Hope this clarifies,

Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_waterIM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel:   +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax:   +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks   eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further  http://www.proxim.com


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Danny Miller
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 10:24 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Ultra Capacitors, Aluminum Batteries


"supercapactior" and "ultracapacitor" have no official meaning, and are 
essentially meaningless.  They do not specify any particular technology 
or size.

There are a number of researchers working on the idea now.  Unlike 
batteries, there do not seem to be hard limits as to what is possible in 
terms of capacity/power to size/weight ratios.  I mean, there are no 
credible claims that a person can make a li-ion with 10x the capacity 
per unit weight, or even 5x.  But with capacitors, the technical 
limitations are unclear.  Somebody claiming a capacitor 50x larger than 
anything seen before, I'd be skeptical but wouldn't call it impossible 
and bullsh*t right off the bat.

The claim of being able to recharge in minutes is problematic.  The part 
which is unclear is even if the cap could take astronomical charging 
currents, where would you get that much current to do it that fast?   
Even hooking directly up to your house's 220V mains is nowhere near 
enough current to charge that fast before you'd pop the breakers. 

Danny

Roland Wiench wrote:

>George F. Hamstra is correct, they are Super capacitors, not ultra 
>capacitors. They are a different chemistry.
>
>I brought t

EV digest 6113

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

_
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Unlimited Internet Access with 1GB of Email Storage.
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-- 
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.23/513 - Release Date: 11/2/06
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think it would accelerate your love for ev's to be driving one and push 
you to make your other ones run . Also there is that famous ev grin you 
would be sportin immediately.That is my sales pitch to try to get more ev 
drivers/owners in upstate Ny  mike y
- Original Message - 
From: "Don Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 8:39 AM
Subject: Re: Solectria Force on ebay



Mike

Wish I had the $  I'd "buy it now"  Much less expensive than trying to 
make my two electrics run (1980 Jet ElectraVan or 1983 Bradley GT 
Electric).  But would I get as much satisfaction driving it or gain 
valuable knowledge purchasing it from you that I would obtain restoring 
what I have? I wonder.


Don Davidson
 - Original Message - 
 From: mike young<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

 To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
 Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 2:53 AM
 Subject: Solectria Force on ebay


 I have listed a 97 solectria force on ebay item # 330047260763 located 
near Rochester ny.this one runs strong and i took it 28 miles the other 
day with no problem.it came from transoptions in nj.

 mike young

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED---*
* This post contains a forbidden message format   *
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--=_NextPart_000_0244_01C7032A.063D9F40";
type="multipart/alternative--
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 08:44:36 -0800
From: Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List RCVR 
Subject: A Very Interesting Quote - from Automotive News - and GM's Lutz
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Again...  This guy from GM, Lutz, ( or should we pronounce it CLutz...) 
  just blows me away...

You can read the whole Automotive News  article here: 
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061107/FREE/61106014/1024/STATIC

But it is his last line 

 "what started as a fuel cell project is now an electric vehicle 
project."

W H A T   ? ? ?
-- 
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle,  WA  98115-7230
Day:  206 850-8535
Eve:  206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: RE: A Very Interesting Quote - from Automotive News - and GM's Lutz
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 12:28:01 -0500
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

GM will never wake up to an electric vehicle until they understand that
heavy gas guzzling SUVs are not the direction they need to be heading
in. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Steven Lough
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 11:45
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List RCVR
Subject: A Very Interesting Quote - from Automotive News - and GM's Lutz

Again...  This guy from GM, Lutz, ( or should we pronounce it CLutz...)
  just blows me away...

You can read the whole Automotive News  article here: 
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061107/FREE/6110601
4/1024/STATIC

But it is his last line 

 "what started as a fuel cell project is now an electric vehicle
project."

W H A T   ? ? ?
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle,  WA  98115-7230
Day:  206 850-8535
Eve:  206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 09:15:10 -0900
From: MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Tesla mentioned in the IEEE Institute Online Newsletter
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Message-id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-language: en
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Content-disposition: inline

Good radio report except for the fuel cell part...academia just can't let 

EV digest 6114

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6114

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Phoenix Motorcars Takes SEMA Show by Storm
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) RE: Was motor roughness - Now Raptor Issue?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) RE: Was motor roughness - Now Raptor Issue?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) RE: Power Trailer, was  EV pusher Trailer
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) RE: Power Trailer, was  EV pusher Trailer
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) RE: Was motor roughness - Now Raptor Issue?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by "Arthur W. Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) RE: Dual outlet opportunity charging
by "Lawrence Lile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) RE: [BULK]  Re: EV pusher Trailer
by "Lawrence Lile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: Phoenix Motorcars Takes SEMA Show by Storm
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Phoenix Motorcars Takes SEMA Show by Storm
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) RE: Phoenix Motorcars Takes SEMA Show by Storm
by "Paschke, Stephen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Was motor roughness - Now Raptor Issue?
by "Andrew A." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---

Sweet!
I guess they have changed battery suppliers. They were going to be  
using Valence batteries at one point, It was putting valence in the  
news, I wonder what happened?
The Altairnano batts sound pretty cool, 250 mile range, 95mph, 10  
minute charge time.

Wonder what their vehicles will cost? $$$,$$$.$$

 -Tehben


On Nov 8, 2006, at 9:17 AM, MIKE WILLMON wrote:


Phoenix Motorcars Takes SEMA Show by Storm

10:00 a.m.  11/07/2006 Provided by


ONTARIO, Calif., Nov 07, 2006 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- Phoenix Motorcars,  
exhibiting their new zero emission, all-electric, freeway-ready  
sports utility truck, received substantial media attention at the  
SEMA show last week. SEMA is the Specialty Equipment Market  
Association ( www.sema.org ) show attended by over 200,000  
automobile industry buyers.


Phoenix Motorcars introduced a zero emission, all-electric sport  
utility truck, which is powered by a revolutionary Altairnano  
NanoSafe(TM) battery pack (ALTI), and the truck targets the fleet  
vehicle owner market. The Phoenix Motorcars sport utility truck  
exceeds all specifications for a Type III ZEV, having a driving  
range of 130 miles, it can be recharged in less than 10 minutes and  
the battery pack has a life of 12 years or more. Surprisingly, the  
cost to recharge the battery pack is less than $3.00!!


The Phoenix Motorcars zero emission, all-electric sport utility  
truck can cruise on the freeway at up to 95 mph while carrying 5  
passengers and a full payload. The Phoenix Motorcars Sport Utility  
Truck has a low cost maintenance schedule and will be introduced in  
early 2007. The Phoenix Motorcars SUV will be introduced in late  
2007 with two configurations, having a range of either 130 or 250  
miles and both configurations can be recharged in less than 10  
minutes.


Phoenix Motorcars is receiving a solid market response with over  
600 expressions of interest from fleet vehicle owners and great  
press coverage with over 50 media briefings conducted in the past  
week, including two press conferences held by the actor and  
environmental activist Ed Begley Jr. An excellent media story was a  
lead article on the Popular Mechanics website at: http:// 
www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/4201003.html


"The Phoenix Motorcars Sport Utility Trucks and Vehicles astound  
people because these vehicles are full sized vehicles which carry  
five people at freeway speeds, unlike the public perception of an  
electric vehicle which is a golf cart sized, low speed, two  
passenger vehicle. There is tremendous pent up demand for a real  
zero emission, all-electric vehicle and we are well positioned to  
satisfy this market demand," comments Phoenix Motorcars CEO Dan  
Elliott.


Phoenix Motorcars will introduce our Sport Utility Truck for the  
Fleet Vehicle Market in early 2007 and plan to produce at least 500  
zero emission, all electric trucks in 2007. The SUV will be  
introduced in late 2007. Vehicle orders are being taken for the  
Phoenix SUT now for delivery in early 2007 and for the SUV for  
delivery in late 2007, at affordable pricing.


ABOUT PHOENIX MOTORCARS, INC.

Phoenix Motorcars Inc., headquartered in Ontario, California, has  
been an industry leader in the development of battery electric  
freeway speed vehicles since 2001. The mission of Phoenix Motorcars  
is to manufacture zero emission vehicles including Sport Utility  
Trucks and Sport Utility Vehicles to reduce the toxic emissions  
from the largest contributor to air pollution, personal  
automobiles. For additional information visit:  
www.phoenixmotorcars.com .



Phoenix Motorcars Inc.
Jana W

EV digest 6115

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6115

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: A Very Interesting Quote - from Automotive News - and GM's Lutz
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Phoenix Motorcars Takes SEMA Show by Storm
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Phoenix Motorcars Takes SEMA Show by Storm
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) RE: Dual outlet opportunity charging
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Phoenix Motorcars Takes SEMA Show by Storm
by "Greg Watson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: VW Vanagon as Glider?
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Phoenix Motorcars Takes SEMA Show by Storm
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 10) Re: Phoenix Motorcars Takes SEMA Show by Storm
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) RE: New Zilla startup questions, (HELP!)
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Phoenix Motorcars Takes SEMA Show by Storm
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Battery standing voltage question
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Siamese motors are now considered "HACKED!"
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Tesla mentioned in the IEEE Institute Online Newsletter
by Jay Snable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) OT: Fox News falls for Steorn
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) RE: Dual outlet opportunity charging
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Or this line ***Such a vehicle would require "a much smaller fuel cell stack" 
than a vehicle in which the fuel cell powers an electric engine,***

and if they ditch the fuel cell altogether it could be an affordable car
as well as the gas engine they could get back on a Green Track 
:-O

>Steven Lough wrote
> But it is his last line 
> 
>  "what started as a fuel cell project is now an electric 
> vehicle 
> project."
> 
> W H A T   ? ? ?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Altair is claiming a possible 25 year life versus 2 years for  
conventional Lithium batery.

Check out these pdf's
http://www.altairnano.com/documents/060926HOUSECARBZEV.pdf
http://www.altairnano.com/documents/NanoSafeBackgrounder060920.pdf

If these claims are true I can see why Phoenix Motrorcars switched.  : )

-Tehben


On Nov 8, 2006, at 1:37 PM, Paschke, Stephen wrote:


We heard about this on this list in a press release a few months ago.
There was a lot of "I'll believe it when I see it."
I still say prove it.  I'm sure that is not a full charge.  Maybe  
80% or

the top 5%?
Remember they said "as little as".


Stephen Paschke

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of GWMobile
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 2:23 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Phoenix Motorcars Takes SEMA Show by Storm

Why haven't we heard of this battery technology before?
That's astounding and the 10 minute charge changes EVERYTHING.
Range isn't a problem if you can recharge in 10 minutes. That is less
than the time it takes to fill a gas tank!


On Wed, 8 Nov 2006 12:43 pm, Tehben Dean wrote:

Sweet!
I guess they have changed battery suppliers. They were going to be
using Valence batteries at one point, It was putting valence in the
news, I wonder what happened?
The Altairnano batts sound pretty cool, 250 mile range, 95mph, 10
minute charge time.
Wonder what their vehicles will cost? $$$,$$$.$$

 -Tehben


On Nov 8, 2006, at 9:17 AM, MIKE WILLMON wrote:


Phoenix Motorcars Takes SEMA Show by Storm

10:00 a.m.  11/07/2006 Provided by


ONTARIO, Calif., Nov 07, 2006 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- Phoenix Motorcars,
exhibiting their new zero emission, all-electric, freeway-ready
sports utility truck, received substantial media attention at the
SEMA show last week. SEMA is the Specialty Equipment Market
Association ( www.sema.org ) show attended by over 200,000

automobile

industry buyers.

Phoenix Motorcars introduced a zero emission, all-electric sport
utility truck, which is powered by a revolutionary Altairnano
NanoSafe(TM) battery pack (ALTI), and the truck targets the fleet
vehicle owner market. The Phoenix Motorcars sport utility truck
exceeds all specifications for a Type III ZEV, having a driving

range

of 130 miles, it can be recharged in less than 10 minutes and  the
battery pack has a life of 12 years or more. Surprisingly, the  cost
to recharge the battery pack is less than $3.00!!

The Phoenix Motorcars zero emission, all-electric sport utility

truck

can cruise on the freeway at up to 95 mph while carrying 5

passengers

and a full payload. The Phoenix Motorcars Sport Utility  Truck has a
low cost maintenance schedule and will be introduced in  early 2007.
The Phoenix Motorcars

EV digest 6116

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6116

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Battery standing voltage question
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Battery standing voltage question
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Curtis Sepex motor controllers up on Aussie Ebay
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Phoenix Motorcars Takes SEMA Show by Storm
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) RE: Curtis Sepex motor controllers up on Aussie Ebay
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Fox News falls for Steorn
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) RE: Phoenix Motorcars Takes SEMA Show by Storm
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Multiple NEDRA records
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  9) RE: OT: Fox News falls for Steorn
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: Fox News falls for Steorn
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) EBEAA Meeting - next Saturday, Nov 18, 2006 10-12 in Alameda
by Ed Thorpe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Renewable Energy Idea, an' More!
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 13) Re: Battery standing voltage question
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Renewable Energy Idea, an' More!
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Was motor roughness - Now Raptor Issue?
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Multiple NEDRA records
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Fox News falls for Steorn
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) IGBT info
by "Obrien, Haskell W." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: OT: Fox News falls for Steorn
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Xebra Glider
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Phoenix Motorcars Takes SEMA Show by Storm
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) The story about Th!nk Nordic
by Arne Magnus Berge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: Multiple NEDRA records
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 24) Re: Multiple NEDRA records
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hello John,

There may be a Discharge Floor  (or minimum limit that you fuel gage or 
E-meter may be set at).

If the E-meter has a Discharge Floor of 100% meaning it displays the full 
100% range of the AH of the battery as for example for a 100 AH battery:

Battery charge to 100% is 100% display or 0 AH used on the meter.

Battery discharge to 50% is 50% display or 50 AH used or remaining on the 
meter.

If the Discharge Floor is set to 50% and the battery is at 100% charge, it 
will also read 100% on the E-meter but when the battery is discharge to 50%, 
this will read 0% on the meter.

I have the same type of batteries you have, T-145's which are 260 AH.  If I 
set the AH and the Discharge Floor on a Link-10 E-meter to 100% and 
discharge to 80% remaining, the E-meter shows about 52 AH use or 260 AH x 
20% = 52 AH

If I set the E-meter to a Discharge Floor to 50%, then the E-meter displays 
26 AH use at 80%  or

260 x 50%= 130 AH, then:

130 AH x 20% = 26 AH use which is display as 80% on the E-meter.

The 26 AH is actually 90% of the capacity of the battery but it displays as 
80% on the battery.

I rather leave the Discharge Floor at 100% and never discharge below 50% 
which would be about 130 AH left in the battery or if one battery reads 
about 6.01 volts at no load what ever comes first.

Roland




- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 8:14 PM
Subject: Battery standing voltage question


> Hi All,
>
> I have been taking short runs with the electric bike and have come to a
> question about the standing voltage readings I am getting.
> Specs. Trojan T145 floodies
> running a 48 volt system, and charging in parallel 24 volt string.
> I have a Curtis "battery fuel gauge" which I think is actually just a
> minimum recording volt meter.
>
> After a 5 to 10 mile ride,  the "fuel gauge" reads anywhere from 1/3 to 
> 3/4
> full.  But when I read the voltage with a DMM I read 80 to 95% charged 
> based
> on a chart that I downloaded from Trojan's website.
>
> I understand that the instructions are to not measure the voltage just 
> after
> a charge or a discharge.  I expected that to be because just after a 
> charge
> the voltage would be overly high and that just after the discharge that it
> would be falsely low.
>
> My current draw is 80-125 amps as I cruise and can surge to 300+ on
> acceleration.  I expect that I am getting bit by Puekerts effect on the 
> fuel
> gauge.  My basic question is does a heavy discharge cause an overly high
> standing voltage reading?  I have taken the readings anywhere from 15
> minutes to the following day with similar results.
>
> respectfully,
> John Neiswanger
>
> 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

Hi Roland,

Its not an e-meter type device,  just a cheap battery fuel gauge.  It has a 
couple of adjustment pots, but

EV digest 6117

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

e correct,
they do make the trailer and towing safer.

They put constant tension on the receiver. The dealer was telling me he
had someone tow in their trailer w/ the reciver pin not installed. (All
that kept the trailer from coming loose was tension.)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Got a tow home yesterday. Left work after midnight for drive home.
Starting hearing more noticeable faint grinding at more than just startup.

Also a new whirring sound was generated while in motion.
I pulled over to stop for a tow, but then it seemed to get better, so I
went back out on road at 20 mph. after 3 more miles it got real bad again.

This time I decided to turn car off and on.  Woops. Upon trying to start
again, it didn't budge.  Raptor seems to work fine.  Green light, startup
fan; and diagnose voltage to the controller and Voltage OUT of the
controller if I pushed the pedal down. (called Peter from Raptor today and
he agreed on bad motor; said to check motor with a 12 volt battery; that's
tomorrow)

Luckily at midnight noone was around to see the Electric Vehicle broke down
(not even the tow drive noticed).

Today, the motor actually worked again briefly. i went in to get a audio
recording device to record the awful noise. but when I came out and turned
car on, it didn't move again.

Motor still freely spins.

I think I can conclude a motor issue.  Controllers aren't known to grind
and I'm pretty sure the whirring noise was motor and not controller.

Motor shop.

QUESTION: Anything I should know about pulling a motor out (like how?)

I plan to bring it to the people our chemical plant uses for motor repair.

Thanks, Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

 Hi Lawrence and All,
 While the Zebra may be useful as an errand EV
at slower speeds, you DON'T want to hotrod it to go much
over 45 mph because of it's single front wheel limits
stability.
 If you are braking into a curve at anything but
slow speed, you'll have rolling problems, especially to the
right with just the driver onboard. Now brake on a curve
going downhill and in anything but a walking speed, it will
roll over. Not something I'd want in SF. Ask the Sparrow
owner who rolled at 5 mph backing while turning downhill.
Now you know why my 3wh EV is wide.
 I'd bet that's why they are keeping it slow.
 For Flat Fla, driven easily under 40 mph, it
will probably make a good EV. Though from an owner, said
it's all falling apart so one would have to go through it
with locktite for all the bolts, inspect the wiring, ect for
chaffing, ect.
 Also they put one up on Ebay and it didn't sell
at $8k. I'd check the other person who are importing them
into the US, in LA I think, and help them make a good EV out
of these interesting gliders. They are lower priced too.
 For more grunt, get a 600-1,000 amp 48vdc
controller gives you starting, hill power without increasing
top speed much.
 One should know L91's, most motors come in many
different rpm/v. Only if you got a low rpm, higher torque
per amp would the higher voltage help hill climbing as the
motor would overheat if a higher rpm/v one was used. They
change this by changing the field windings. Otherwise you
would need to change the gearing.
 Jerry Dycus

- Original Message Follows -
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
,
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "SFEVA"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Xebra Glider
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 10:20:29 -0800

>I think this (to be honest) motorcycle is a perfect bed for
>an ev drive train of your choice.  At 120vdc it'd be a real
>great performer.  As they have it now they have an K91 size
>motor that is fan cooled.  With just an L91 and higher
>voltage this would be a very good hill climber.  It is
>pokey slow now but with battey weight down low it has good
>potential.  If anyone else has seen it and has ideas please
>feel free to comment.  As is it's an ok city car but I
>think it should be geared down to 30mph.  Then it might
>climb hills better.  A sepex system would work well in it. 
>I suspect you could get gliders from China for much less
>than the 8k Zap would want for them.  Lawrence
>Rhodes...
> 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Check the brushes,  No current could be them stuck in holder.

Regards
Randall Prentice

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, 10 November 2006 10:22 a.m.
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Now bad motor - Was motor roughness - Now Raptor Issue?
> 
> 
> Got a tow home yesterday. Left work after midnight for 

EV digest 6118

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6118

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) RE: Curtis Sepex motor controllers up on Aussie Ebay
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) RE: Dual outlet opportunity charging
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: ICE polution figures
by "Kip C Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Carbon Dioxide and EVs - a loser?
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Beware of this EV supplier
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Carbon Dioxide and EVs - a loser?
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Multiple NEDRA records
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  8) 8" ADC, no tailshaft in So. OR
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Multiple NEDRA records
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 10) Re: Solar EV power
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Solar EV power
by "Ev Performance (Robert Chew)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Solar EV power
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Beware of this EV supplier
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Carbon Dioxide and EVs - a loser?
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Carbon Dioxide and EVs - a loser? 
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 16) RE: Solar EV power
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Multiple NEDRA Records and Production Class
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
The Sepex has normal control from 0 to 100%, as it is
only one of the windings that receives the separate
control (the Field winding) so that will not move the motor.
It will only create the field that *can* move the rotor
as soon as there is current flowing through it.
It also prevents run-away (overspeeding) motors when
unloaded. Serial switching of the field and armature
causes a collapsing field when the RMP go up, this is
the famous "field weakening" for higher speed.
On an accidentally unloaded series motor, this will
make it self-destruct from too high RPM.
The Sepex motor has a constant field, generated by
the controller (well, the controller can change it
but it is not affected by the RMPs causing the
armature to generate a high EMF, so the current
collapses)
In a Sepex, unloading the motor will allow it to rev
up a little, but keep a safe speed.
Armature control is identical as in the series motor,
the field could even be controlled with a resistor and
the armature with a non-sepex controller.

Hope this clarifies,

Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_waterIM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel:   +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax:   +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks   eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further  http://www.proxim.com


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of James Massey
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 6:01 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Curtis Sepex motor controllers up on Aussie Ebay


At 01:38 AM 9/11/06 -0800, Cor van de Water wrote:
>Forklift. Or NEV / GolfCart.
>You could run a motor-cycle with such a controller,
>but for a car it is usually too little power,
>unless you are OK with a car that can't go on the Freeway

UUhhmm, How about I rephrase that.

What sort of motors are these set up for, knowing that they are NEV/Golf 
cart/floor sweeper etc. in their original application. But would the motors 
that they are designed for be readily available, and if so would they be up 
to the job of (for example) a motorbike?

What kind of behaviour would be expected from these type of systems, do 
they "idle" the motor (and so require a clutch) or do they PWM the armature 
as well, and allow for pulling away from stop with the motor fully engaged 
all the time?

Thank and Regards

[Technik] James

>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Behalf Of James Massey
>Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 11:59 PM
>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>Subject: Curtis Sepex motor controllers up on Aussie Ebay
>
>
>G'day all
>
>Aussie Ebay: ebay.com.au have a couple of Curtis Sepex controllers, 24 to
>36V 400A
>
>http://search.ebay.com.au/search/search.dll?from=R40&satitle=DC+motor+contr
o
>ller
>
>Item # 190048365243
>http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Curtis-Sepex-dc-electric-motor-controller_W0QQitemZ1
9
>0048365243QQihZ009QQcategoryZ294QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
>
>and item # 190048365314
>http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Curtis-Sepex-dc-electric-motor-controller_W0QQitemZ1
9
>0048365314QQihZ009QQcategoryZ294QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
>
>So what are they suitable for?
>
>Regards
>
>[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In theory, yes.
There may be practical issues, like if the resistance in
each of the two cables is not equal (one of the plugs has
a bad contact) then one will carry a higher current than the
other and trip its breaker, the othe

EV digest 6119

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6119

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Carbon Dioxide and EVs - a loser?
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Fox News falls for Steorn
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Solar EV power
by "Ev Performance (Robert Chew)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Phoenix Motorcars Takes SEMA Show by Storm
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Solar EV power can work
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Carbon Dioxide and EVs - a loser?
by "ohnojoe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Multiple NEDRA records
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Multiple NEDRA Records and Production Class
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  9) Re: Solar EV power
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: Multiple NEDRA records
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 11) Re: Renewable Energy Idea, an' More!
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Multiple NEDRA records
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 13) Re: Multiple NEDRA records
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 14) Re: Multiple NEDRA Records and Production Class
by "BFRListmail" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
There are also plans to "sequester" the CO2 emissions from fossil fuel 
power plants.  If this is for real, then fossil fuel power plant 
emissions are near zero while automotive gasoline remains unchanged.


However, the practice of sequestering is not currently widespread and 
there are serious questions as to whether the basic principle is 
scientifically valid or merely an industrial scam to circumvent 
environmental regulations.


Danny

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

These figures p[roably are correct, but are a worse case scenario and don't  
take several other factors into account.there is no age to the figures, 
and  due to the fact that , presumably, the US is slowly inmplementing a 
renweable  energy policy the lb/kwh for 'US Power' is going to be continually  
reducingadd to that the fact that more coal fired stations are being  converted 
to run on gas, or they at least should be, this figure for CO2 from US  Power 
is one that Americans should not necessarily dispute but instead hold it  up 
to the governemnt declaring it to be disgraceful.and be careful that  
they don't start taxing you for CO2 production


Re: Carbon Dioxide and EVs - a loser?
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) >
MIME-Version:  1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Without quoting accurate sources for all the numbers given, blogs  like
this are just one more persons unsubstantiated opinion.

Mike


 


"A electric car charging from a coal powered grid ( 2.177 lbs  C02/kwh)
would generate twice the C02 per mile over a new low emissions  IC car.
If you lived in a nuclear or wind / hydro generated area a grid  charged
EV car would generate 10 times less C02 per mile then in a coal  powered
area and 1/5 the C02 of a IC vehicle."

"These  high C02 numbers for a EV were a complete surprise to me.
   





 

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
reminds me of the people that suggest putting windmills on electric cars so
you can produce the electricity to run the car  0-o

That actually works on boats.  Shouldn't be any different on a car.  It's
just that the windmill big enough to do the job would probably tip over the
car.  Lawrence Rhodes..
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

who are u addressing this to?

On 10/11/06, Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Your figures don't tell the real story.

A panel rate dto produce 150 watts is rated to produce them while cool, at
high noon, in the middle of summer, in Arizona, while pointed directly at
the sun.

The main problems are:  the panel heats up when exposed to the sun, so
power drops.  High noon only occures for a brief period of time, as the
sun moves power drops. As you move away from the middle of the year, power
drops.  If you live further north, power drops.  If the panel isn't
pointed directly at the sun, power drops.
Now the panel manufacturer knows all of this, so they compensate for it.
A panel designed to charge a 12V battery normally produces max power at
around 17 volts or so.  However, the panel's rating assumes it will be
outputing 17 volts.
When you hook it up to a battery, the battery pulls the voltage down.  The
current goes up a tiny bit, but not enough to maintain the rated power.
It might be rated to produce 8.8 amps at 17V, but you will only get maybe
9 amps at 13V.
So even if you have a cool panel, at high noon, etc. it doesn't produce
150 watts, it produces 13V * 9A (give or take) = 117 Watts, and this is
BEFORE you start loosing power for not pointing directly at the sun, not
being noon, not living in Arizona, etc. etc. etc.

So if you get 5 hours of sun, you don't EVER get 5 * 150 watts, you get
maybe 1/2 of that.  That of course assumes you have them on a st

EV digest 6120

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

wholesale.  You can get cheaper 
units from All Electronics you can try.

Roland
>
> 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

Thanks Darin,

The NEDRA Board will need to discuss setting records at IHRA tracks.  
I recall Mike Wilmon mentioning something about it a few days ago.


I think the issue was whether those tracks would run electrics. Doc  
Kennedy races at an IHRA track in Virginia and hasn't had any problems.


I would think that as long as the track allows electrics we would use  
the same rule of having two runs within one percent of each other on  
the same day. We would also need to see the time slips to verify the  
record.


This isn't official so I'd have to run it with the NEDRA Board first.  
If it gets more electrics out on the race track I see no problem with  
it.


We had concerns with posting all the NEDRA members names and their  
membership status on the website. The NEDRA Yahoo List may be a  
better place to access the membership list since those members need  
to join the NEDRA group first. I will discuss with the Board the idea  
of posting the Membership File on the NEDRA Yahoo List.


We may be also able to add a "Members" section on the website so they  
can log in and see their membership status.


Chip Gribben
NEDRA Webmaster
http://www.nedra.com


On Nov 10, 2006, at 8:17 AM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:


From: "BFRListmail" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: November 10, 2006 7:36:32 AM EST
To: 
Subject: Re: Multiple NEDRA Records and Production Class


Excellent information Chip.  I guess all we needed to do was ask.

While we're on the topic, I'll throw out a few more things

There is no mention of being able to set a record at an IHRA  
track.  A gentlemen on the list, the Alaska guy right? just asked  
about running his vehicle at an IHRA track.  I said he'd have no  
problem with the rules, but I didn't think about being able to set  
a record.  I seem to recall it was said a year or so ago that IHRA  
was OK with the electrics.

Can I get a ruling here?

Now I know maybe I shouldn't be too hung up on details, as this is  
really supposed to be for fun.  But if we've got all these rules in  
place already, lets get them right.  I do think having quite a few  
rules does establish NEDRA as a professional looking group.


I was just thinking that I renewed my membership just before the  
last NEDRA election.  I'm pretty sure my membership had expired  
before that.  And I know I'm going to feel like a dummy when I show  
up at the next NEDRA race, or maybe the one after that, and find  
that my membership has lapsed.  What's up with this?  Maybe a list  
on the web page of members in good standing, along with their start  
date and membership expiration date?  I don't know if anyone is  
against publishing the member list, but if that listed names and  
cities with emails, it might get people especially in the same city/ 
region together.  Or just set all memberships to end at the same  
time each year, maybe twice a year?


Just a few things on my mind.


Darin
BadFishRacing
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

In case others didn't receive this, I'm forwarding it to the list.

Bill Dennis
 

 




*_Lithium ion Re-chargeable Power Batteries_*

*New battery models update: high capacity and high current. ** BMS 
*and* Charger* availability.


 


   *
  Introduction of  _*TS-LFP models*_ with *3C high continous
  current*,* longer life cycle* and are suitable for motor drive
  applications.  Capacity from *30Ah to 800Ah* batteries with
  continous current from *90A to 2400A !*.

 Selection and Pricing : 
http://www.everspring.net/txt/product-battery-pricing.htm  or the 
bottom of this page.


 


   *
  _*TS-LCP models*_ with lighter weight and smaller size have
  extended the capacity to *600Ah.*

Selection and Pricing : 
http://www.everspring.net/txt/product-battery-pricing.htm or the 
bottom of this page.


 


   *
  Please ask for the aggressive *volume-pricing break*

** 


   *
  New battery management system (*BMS*) module is available. See
  attached reference document*.*

Each BMS module can control upto 10 cells for overvoltage charging
protection and voltage monitoring of individual cell with LCD
display panel.

BMS module - unit price US$500

Display panel - unit price US$500

 


   *
  *Custom-built matching charger* for the BMS module.

The cost of a custom-built charger is US$ 750 per KW with ordering
leadtime of* *6-8 weeks in general. 
 
For example, if you have 14 cells of 100AH cells (TS-LCP100AHA),

in order to charge it, you need 4.25v charging voltage per cell
and the charging current is 0.3C or 33A. Therefore, the charger
will be a  14x 4.25v x 33A = 1963 watts or 2 KW. The pricing of
the charger will be US$ 1,500.

EV digest 6121

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6121

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Multiple NEDRA Records and Production Class
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) RE: Carbon Dioxide and EVs - a loser?
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Curtis whine question vs. Raptor condensation issues
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) RE: Carbon Dioxide and EVs - a loser?
by "Lawrence Lile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: [BULK] Re: Carbon Dioxide and EVs - a loser?
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: C02 per mile
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) precharge using lightbulb at 144v?
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Memory Effect - (was: Renewable Energy Idea, an' More!)
by "Adrian DeLeon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) RE: Curtis Sepex motor controllers up on Aussie Ebay
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: [BULK] Re: Carbon Dioxide and EVs - a loser?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: [BULK]  Re: Carbon Dioxide and EVs - a loser?
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Plan B for SepEx Motor Controller
by Chet Fields <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) RE: Plan B for SepEx Motor Controller
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Beware of this EV supplier
by Mike Sandman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Solar EV power can work
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: [BULK] Re: Carbon Dioxide and EVs - a loser?
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) RE: precharge using lightbulb at 144v?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: C02 per mile
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) RE: Plan B for SepEx Motor Controller
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Chip:  Thanks for the prompt response.  Which leads to my next question:  what 
about Modified Production?  (8 current record holders.)  I know thw universe of 
production EVs is small compared to conversions, but it's also one where 
remaining stock can be difficult.  Being the owner of a production EV (Tropica) 
which would be nigh on to impossible to get running in anything but modified 
condition -  inquiring minds want to know!

Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Shawn, Dennis, John and Steve

Thanks for letting us know about the NEDRA Records and Production  
Class issues.

I have summarized the concerns and sent them to the NEDRA Board with  
my proposed revisions to correct the typos on the website. 

PRODUCTION CLASS

Which brings us to Steve's concern about the Production Class, we do  
in fact have a class for OEM EVs and that is the "Street Production"  
class. There are 6 NEDRA records in this class. But at this time we  
have not yet written a detailed description of this class like we  
have done for the "Street Classes". This class is for production EVs  
like the Sparrow, the EV1 and RAV-4 EV.


 
-
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lawrence
I don't have a US ZIP
Try entering the Power Profiler:
"You can use the Power Profiler to generate a report about your own
electricity use, like the one shown below. All you need is your ZIP
code. The Power Profiler takes about five minutes to run. To enter the
Power Profiler, click on the link below."

seen here:


Let us know what you think about this epa service
tks
Lock
Toronto
Human/Electric Hybrid Pedestrian

--- Lawrence Lile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Anyone know any sources for finding out the generation mix in other
> areas?  I've already contacted my utility, with little result.  

__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

Bob Bath wrote:

I know that the Curtis 1231-8601 whines with a 9" ADC. But will it
also do it with an 8"?


The Curtis -C controllers produce the whine (1221C and 1231C). The 
controller itself is silent; it's the motor that acts as your 
loudspeaker to make the whine audible. So, how loud it is depends on the 
motor, and how it's mounted and insulated/muffled.


The whine is present when the controller is operated at less than a 1% 
duty cycle, when it's switching at 1.5 KHz instead of 15 KHz. Here are 
some ideas to reduce or get rid of the whine:


1. Buy some other controller. Use the Curtis 1221B or 1231B (the -B
   controllers don't switch at 1.5 KHz unless hot). Or, there are
   lots of other choices, from Auburn to Zilla that don't whine.

2. Set up your potbox resistance so it jumps immediately to a higher
   duty cycle, to skip over the part where it whines. This will make
   you car start moving with a slight lurch if you don't use a clutch.

3. Add an inductor in series with the motor. This lowers the ripple
   and so reduces the 

EV digest 6122

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6122

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Solar EV power
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: C02 per mile
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: [BULK] Re: Carbon Dioxide and EVs - a loser?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: [BULK] Re: Carbon Dioxide and EVs - a loser?
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Beware of this EV supplier
by Mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: [BULK] Re: Carbon Dioxide and EVs - a loser?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) RE: Plan B for SepEx Motor Controller
by Chet Fields <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Batteries on bicycles
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) RE: Plan B for SepEx Motor Controller
by Chet Fields <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: Solar EV power
by "Ev Performance (Robert Chew)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) DEVC (Denver Electric Vehicle Council) display tomorrow!
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) RE: Batteries on bicycles
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) RE: Plan B for SepEx Motor Controller
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Memory Effect - (was: Renewable Energy Idea, an' More!)
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) City El manual?
by nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Solar EV power
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Batteries on bicycles
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Solar radiation varies enormously from location to location and the angle that 
the sun hits the panels makes a great difference. Check out the DOE 
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/solar/decision_tools.html, it has lots of good 
tools.

I whole heartedly support anybody that uses Sun power,, Wind energy or Hydro 
power. We need to start getting rid of our dependence on oil.

Here in AZ, the few panels that I have, 5, sometimes are able to produce 110% 
of their rated power.

Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Any links please GW?  I'm interested in "complete solutions" aka
packaged products?  Not too large scale? Home-sized, as you say?

tks
Lock
Toronto
Human/Electric Hybrid Pedestrian

--- GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If electric cars are going to be home charged there is no need to
> assume 
> either utlity charges or solar silcion manufacturing emmissions.
> Solar cooker hot oil powering standard alternators on a roof 
> installation can easily power a house and charge a car at less
> expense and no emissions.
> 
> On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 10:52 am, Danny Miller wrote:
> > To be fair the case for the EV would also need to take into account
> all 
> > the energy spent bringing the electricity to you.  That might be:
> > natural gas exploration
> > coal mining equipment
> > truck fuel for moving coal
> > If solar cells, the energy spent refining the silicon and making
> > the devices etc.
> >
> > Danny
> >
> > Carl Clifford wrote:
> >
> >> I seem to remember somebody mentioning a good analysis of this on
> >> the web somewhere - anybody remember where?
> >>The bottom line is that these numbers need to be
> well-to-wheels, 
> >> not smokestack numbers.  Does the IC Car number use the tailpipe
> or is 
> >> it additive for the cost to drill, pump, ship, refine, and truck
> the 
> >> fuel?  Is the coal smokestack number for an old plant, a new
> plant, or 
> >> a weighted average? I would love to see a complete end-to-end 
> >> analysis where we hash out all of the assumptions and include 
> >> everything we can reasonably quantify. We could even take a swing
> at 
> >> the following which I would guess could change the numbers 
> >> significantly:
> >>-oil exploration
> >>  -building and maintaining drilling rigs
> >>  -building, inspecting, and mainting tankers
> >>  -building and maintaining pipelines and storage
> >>  -building and maintaining refineries
> >>  -building and maintaining ports to receive tankers
> >>  -building and maintaining gas stations
> >>  -building and maintaining tanker trucks and other delivery
> >>  -building and maintaining emmissions testing centers
> >>  -securing all of the above
> >>  -and of course the big one that we could never agree on - the
> energy 
> >> we expend
> >>  for "stability in the region"
> >>Too political I suppose, but it would be nice to have a very 
> >> complete resource to point out as many objective numbers as
> possible 
> >> when we hear this argument.
> >>
>  "A electric car charging from a coal powered grid ( 2.177 lbs 
> C02/kwh)
>  would generate twice the C02 per mile over a new low emissions 
> IC car.
>  If you lived in a nuclear or wind / hydro generated area a grid 
> 
>  charged
>  EV car would generate 10 times less C02 per mile then in a coal 
> 
>  powered
>  area and 1/5 the C02 of a IC vehicle."
> 
>  "These  high C02 numbers for a 

EV digest 6123

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6123

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Solar EV power
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Correction...was Multiple NEDRA records
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Beware of this EV supplier/Customer Service
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Multiple NEDRA Records and Production Class
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) RE: Curtis Sepex motor controllers up on Aussie Ebay
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Beware of this EV supplier
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: precharge using lightbulb at 144v?
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) 'lectric leo on ebay
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Curtis whine question vs. Raptor condensation issues
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) RE: Plan B for SepEx Motor Controller
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Solar EV power can work
by "Ev Performance (Robert Chew)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) RE: Batteries on bicycles
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Correction...was Multiple NEDRA records
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) RE: Batteries on bicycles
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: [BULK] Re: Carbon Dioxide and EVs - a loser?
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Solar EV power
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Cheap light EV's and Re: Solar EV power can work
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Name my car... win a T Shirt ;)
by nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Name my car... win a T Shirt ;)
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: 'lectric leo on ebay
by Bill & Nancy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) SOlar concentrators (was: Solar EV power)
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: Cheap light EV's and Re: Solar EV power can work
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
You might want to have a look at  the Energy Innovations web site.  
They've been working on a 25x concentrator.

http://www.idealab.com/frame.php?referer=/press_room/&url=http://www.energyinnovations.com/

Bill Dennis


Ev Performance (Robert Chew) wrote:

Hi,

All cool ideas. The silicon theoretical max efficiency solar cell is
approaching its limit of around 27%. Thats for mono crystalline. But
interestingly enough, if one could build a concentrator that could 
provide

1.5-2 suns onto a solar cell and have some form of active cooling on the
back of the cell nd make it economical then, it would be very 
commercially

viable. Hmmm...might do some research.

For example, have a tedlar sheet of solar cells on say some arbitrary
surface and a laminating layer, instead of 3mm glass which is the 
norm. this

lamiting layer could have some tricky optics sort of manufactured in and
provide a slight magnification to the solar cell beneath.

If this can all be packaged the same or even slightly thicker than the
standard module then that would make solar cells on cars somewhat more
realistic.

Cheers


On 11/11/06, Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Both Peter and Robert are correct,  I was being generous and keeping it
simple.

17% is the highest I have heard avail and 21% highest I heard in 
research.


The 5 hours of sun number considers that the there is really an average
of 5 hours of full sun so that people can multiply it times the panel
rateing to size installations. We get way more than that in summer.

Yes a  MPPT is assumed.

Peter mentions the thermal aspect, and the dust, and I have seen both
these effects. I live across from a field with a very active church
where 100's of people park in the field 3 ties a week. The panels (and
my car :-(  ) are perpetually dirty. They are essentially an open face
photo transistor .

So Here is a thought. If you can keep the panels cool, you can
concentrate the solar up to about 50x (on mono-crystalline cells).
I always wanted to get a single row of cells, put them in a "solarhart"
type collector, water cool them and track the sun.  The heated water
would be for domestic use. The problem is of course that useful domestic
water temp far exceeds useful panel temperature so the only choice I can
see would be the heating of a swimming pool.( and I don't have one of
those yet)

Realistically I got about 6000 kwh last year and 21*150W panels * 5
hours * 365 days is 5748 kwh. Which shouldn't surprise, the number comes
from interpolated measurements.


Lots of info, I love wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_energy






--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---


On Nov 10, 2006, at 7:05 AM, John Wayland wrote:

It was probably too late and I should have been sleepingI goofed 
when I wrote this:


The new highest voltage classes are now  'A' at 241V-300V, 'A2' at 
341V-348V (incorrectly listed at the NEDRA page as 300V-348V), and  
'A3' at 349V and up.



My error was that 'A2' at 341V-3

EV digest 6124

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6124

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Curtis whine question vs. Raptor condensation issues
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: SOlar concentrators (was: Solar EV power)
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: CO2 per mile calculations
by "Joseph H. Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: [BULK] Re: Carbon Dioxide and EVs - a loser?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) A programme for the Dems: Energy Independence, free NiMH, oil
  tax
by doug korthof <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Name my car... win a T Shirt ;)
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: CO2 per mile calculations
by "Ted C." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Phoenix Motorcars Takes SEMA Show by Storm
by Steven Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Batteries on bicycles
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: Name my car... win a T Shirt ;)
by Robert Lemke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Customer Service (was: Beware of this EV supplier)
by Mike Sandman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: 'lectric leo on ebay
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) RE: A programme for the Dems: Energy Independence, free NiMH, oil
  tax
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Customer Service (was: Beware of this EV supplier)
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) return of the 'crazy boy' charger
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: A programme for the Dems: Energy Independence, free NiMH, oil
  tax
by Kenneth Dove <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) NiMH patents, was Re: A programme for the Dems
by "Chris Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: NiMH patents, was Re: A programme for the Dems
by Mike Sandman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) '07 Racing Plans
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: A programme for the Dems: Energy Independence, free NiMH,
  oil  tax
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
--- "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> I had one more idea. A small bottle of dry compressed air (or other gas 
> like CO2) with a little regulator designed to maintain around 1/2 psi. 
> This could be plumbed with a small plastic or rubber tube and feed in 
> using one of the threaded adjustment holes. With a slight positive 
> pressure inside it wouldn't suck in outside air as it cools. (if I 
> understand CO2's properties correctly it would help slightly with 
> cooling too)
> 

Most cars have positive cabin pressure to keep fumes away from the passengers. 
How about running a
small conduit to the controller or an enclosure around it to provide some 
conditioned air and keep
environmental moisture away? My car has a huge hole in the firewall where the 
engine wiring
harness used to be. It would be easy to run a 2 or 3 inch conduit to my 
electronics package to
keep the water away. Keep the elctronics as comfy as me.

Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ouch. That sounds right Peter. Oh well, I'll ask the Concentrator
folks.
Those lenses I saw quoted focal length 200mm, so a *little* tilt might
still be *mostly* effective?

I'm more of a reflective guy (dish), rather than refractive (lense)
:)
L

--- Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > Maybe four of these 260mmx260mm lenses, tiled together as a larger
> > square but "bent" at the joins sortof, onto one focal point, for
> less than $100US?:
> >
> > http://www.3dlens.com/shop/largefresnellens.php
> 
> Umm, I'll have to dig out my Fresnel lens and check, but I don't
> think
> tilting the lens' will move the focal point.  Well, ok it will move
> the
> focal point, but the image of the sun will stay in the same place
> until the lens tilts enough that it ends up getting diffused.

__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Why would you count tank cars? Then you need to figure in all the burnt
electric vehicles in the last year or so!

Joseph H. Strubhar

E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Web:   www.gremcoinc.com
- Original Message - 
From: "JS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 8:35 AM
Subject: CO2 per mile calculations


> Carl,
> Include on your list all the railroad and truck tank cars that burn.  In
> today's news another train derailed and
> thousands of gallons of petroleum burned.  That's the second incident of
> that type in about 2 weeks.
>
> John in Sylmar, CA  PV-EV conversion
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.2/528 - Release Date: 11/10/2006
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---



- Original Message - 
From: "GWMobile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 2:49 PM
Subje

EV digest 6125

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6125

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: precharge using lightbulb at 144v?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: '07 Racing Plans
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: A programme for the Dems: Energy Independence, free NiMH,   
   oil  tax
by Mike Sandman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Curtis whine question vs. Raptor condensation issues
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: return of the 'crazy boy' charger
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Condensation in controller; EVs suitable for cold, wet climes?
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: '07 Racing Plans
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: A programme for the Dems: Energy Independence, free NiMH, oil  tax
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Name my car... win a T Shirt ;)
by Matthew Milliron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: Name my car... win a T Shirt ;)
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Name my car... win a T Shirt ;)
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Plan B for SepEx Motor Controller
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Name my car... win a T Shirt ;)
by "Dr. Andy Mars" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) My yellow car's name
by JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: precharge using lightbulb at 144v?
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Name my car... win a T Shirt ;)
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Curtis whine question vs. Raptor condensation issues
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: 'lectric leo on ebay
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: A programme for the Dems: Energy Independence, free NiMH, oil tax
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) RE: Name my car... win a T Shirt ;)
by "Bill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Name my car... win a T Shirt ;)
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: Plan B for SepEx Motor Controller
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: precharge using lightbulb at 144v?
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: Curtis whine question vs. Raptor condensation issues
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) RE: 'lectric leo on ebay
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---

mike golub wrote:

I precharge my 120vdc curtis system with a 25w 120v light bulb.
If I increase the voltage to 132v or 144v, will the light bulb
still work?


Yes, but it may burn out. I'm using a 130v 75w bulb for my precharge 
resistor in a 132v system. It hasn't burned out in 7 years. In fact, it 
barely flashes each time it is used, never coming close to full brightness.


But I'm upping my system to 144v. I'll probably change to a 240v bulb, 
just to be sure.



Also, Is there a "panel" switch with a built-in light
bulb that operates at 120v?


Yes, lots of them. Most use neon lamps, which work on both AC and DC.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in--Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I hope you make it into the 10's John.

Beware of those 16ah Hawkers. They will need watering. They are
absolutly NOT a sealed battery, especially at the rates you will be
using them. I recommend weighing them when new and checking that
weight now and again. Some of mine lost up to 20ml of water per cell.

Mike




-- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hello to All,
> 
> Though we had a lot of fun racing this year, team Plasma Boy failed to 
> hit our goal of cracking the 11's. The Siamese 8 motor, the Zilla 
> control system, and the Dutchman drive train deliver power effortlessly 
> and reliably, but we feel the car is battery limited in terms of the 
> amount of total hp available.  Consistently running low 12's isn't too 
> bad, and we did get a good deal of media attention that can only help 
> the image of EVs...still, we're not satisfied and are determined to do 
> better in '07!
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > Hey John,
> >
> > Reading your posts reminds me why I love electric drag racing.  The 
> > changes we make to drive, chassis, control, batteries, etc... are
wide 
> > ranging and wide open. It's the "I wonder what doing this will do?" 
> > and then finding out, that is such a blast for me.
> 
> 
> Speaking of changes and getting blastedDick Brown, Tim, and I will 
> be changing the Zombie's battery pack for '07. The new Hawker based
pack 
> will have about 35%-40% MORE power than the current pack, and what a 
> blast that will be! The Hawker electrochemist I spoke with agrees with 
> my calculations on what the new pack will do. The present pack based on 
> 30 of the 24.5 lb. 26 ahr Hawker Aerobatteries generates an initial 321 
> hp, then about 4-5 s

EV digest 6126

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6126

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Name my car... win a T Shirt ;)
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) RE: precharge using lightbulb at 144v?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Name my car... win a T Shirt ;)
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Name my car... win a T Shirt ;)
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: A programme for the Dems: Energy Independence, free NiMH, oil tax
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) RE: EV suppliers
by Sharon G Alexander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: A programme for the Dems: Energy Independence, free NiMH, oil  tax
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Current Eliminator News
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  9) Re: CO2 per mile calculations
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: Current Eliminator News
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 11) Re: Batteries on bicycles
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: A program for the Dems: Energy Independence, etc
by "Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: A programme for the Dems: Energy Independence, free NiMH, oil  tax
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Name my car... win a T Shirt ;)
by DM3 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Water heaters
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Batteries on bicycles
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: A programme for the Dems: Energy Independence, free NiMH, oil  tax
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) First ride in the... errr ;)
by nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Current Eliminator News
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 20) Re: Current Eliminator News
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 21) Re: EV suppliers
by "Mike Harvey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: Water heaters
by "Mike Harvey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) A few New England Notes WAS Re: A programme for the Dems: Energy 
Independence, free NiMH, oil  tax
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: precharge using lightbulb at 144v?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: Water heaters
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
SPECTRUM 4

SPECTRUM 4 has a relationship to the electronics in your EV, as TRANSFORMER I 
which is the name of my EV which has a relationship to the electrical. 

The spectrum color code use for electronics is color code 4 which refers to the 
color yellow. 

Roland  

On 11/10/06, nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> We decided in order to promote the new SouthWest UK EV group (BEVOB -
> http://www.bevob.org/wordpress) that we'd run 
> a little competition on
> my personal blog for people to suggest a name for my new City El.
>
> If you have an idea for a bright yellow City El and want to win a T
> shirt just comment your ideas and the best one wins a "EVangelists
> Suck Amps" T shirt!
>
> http://aminorjourney.co.uk/wordpress/archives/309
>  for the story. It's
> currently got the name "the flying banana" but I'm thinking it'd be
> nice to have something less... fruity!
>
> Nikki.
>
> ___
> Old car? New tricks?
> Visit aminorjourney.com to see the transformation from Hebe to EV.
>
> E-minor isn't just a key any more...
> 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Typically a neon bulb lights up at 90V then drops somewhat in
voltage (you can make an oscillator that way) so for 144V if you
double the resistor, you are at the safe side.
Fomr the value of the resistor (order of 100k Ohm) you can see
that the neon bulb works from extremely low current.
It is truly an indicator-device, I have often seen it lit up
(weakly) on a circuit that was turned off, because the switch
was accidentally in the neutral lead and the phase was on, the
capacitive (or leak) current in the other wire was enough to
light up the neon iulb.

Regarding the 120V light bulb pre-charge at 144V:
it probably is safest to go to a 230V bulb, but it may work
to use a 22 Ohm 10Watt resistor in series with a 130V bulb,
though the single bulb is cheaper ;-)

Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_waterIM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel:   +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax:   +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks   eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further  http://www.proxim.com


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Paul G.
Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 3:01 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: precharge using lightbulb at 144v?



On Nov 11, 2006, at 1:54 PM, mike golub wrote:

> Would the neon + resistor work was well for
> precharging? Can a neon bulb handle 132v or 144v?
> Would the resistor be higher?

I don't thi

EV digest 6127

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6127

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Name my car... win a T Shirt ;)
by Matthew Milliron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Name my car... win a T Shirt ;)
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Water heaters
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Name my car... win a T Shirt ;)
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Water heaters
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: 'lectric leo on ebay
by "The Grinster" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) RE: EV suppliers
by "Will Beckett \(becketts\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) RE: EV suppliers
by "Curtis Muhlestein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Battery voltages
by JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) GP Sub-C NiCd for racing
by john bart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Battery voltages
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) RE: Dual outlet opportunity charging
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Water heaters
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Water heaters
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Energy required to heat batteries
by "BFRListmail" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Georgia EV conversion tax credit?
by "Dmitri" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Raptor issues?
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: Energy required to heat batteries
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Water heaters
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: Water heaters
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Energy required to heat batteries
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: Water heaters
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: Water heaters
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: Raptor issues?
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) RE: Georgia EV conversion tax credit?
by "Curtis Muhlestein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) Re: Energy required to heat batteries
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On Sat, 11 Nov 2006 21:04:29 -0800 (PST), you wrote:

>Since it is a JET Electrica - How-bout:

  I know call it Pikachu!!  Oh, wait never mind. ;>



R. Matt Milliron
1981 Jet Electrica
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/702
My daughter named it, "Pikachu". It's yellow and black,
electric and contains Japanese parts, so I went with it.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

If it's Canary Yellow then how about "Tweety"

Chip Gribben


On Nov 12, 2006, at 11:35 AM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:


Subject: Re: Name my car... win a T Shirt ;)


Since it is a JET Electrica - How-bout:

JETyello
YelloJET
JETbanana
BananaJET
or
CanaryJET --- with a logo that is a canary with propulsion along  
the line

of what this brainiack had in mind in this article:
http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Find-Freedom.htm?At=011639
Jimmy
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Chris, 

I made my own water heater, using off the shelf units, but yes it will be 
costly using industrial products and the way I did it, but this heater unit has 
now been work for 21 years now. 

For the heater unit, I use a diesel engine heater which is a stainless tube 
that is about 2.5 inches in diameter and 18 inches long.  You can get them in 
240 VAC at 2500 watt or to 120 VAC at 1000 watt. 

I used a 120 VAC water pump, a very small 1 gallion per minute that is used in 
heating systems, it is self lubricated by the water. 

I used a Honeywell aqualstat thermostate control that has a sensor that 
inserted in the water jacket.  I can adjust the temperature differential up to 
40 degrees.  I have my adjusted at 180 F off and 140 F on.  This range keeps 
the heater unit from short cycling. 

The thermostate is control  a NTE 40 amp 120 VAC  solid state relay that 
provides power to the heater unit.

I am using a 7kw 120 VAC 60 HZ DC-DC-DC-AC inverter unit, which is a rotating 
alternator-inverter that is power off the motor pilot shaft. 

There is also 50 amp transfer switch that is control by a selector switch on 
the dash.  I can choose commercial power for the preheating mode which heats up 
the cab to over 80 degrees and than transfer to the on-board system.

There is also a expansion fill tank that is made from 3 inch copper pipe with 
end caps solder on the ends.  I solder on a standard radiator cap and and 3/4 
inch brass pipe stubs into this tank.

The pump first supply the fluid to the heater core with 3/4 hoses that are 
double insulated with A/C pipe foam which becomes about 

EV digest 6128

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6128

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Energy required to heat batteries
by "BFRListmail" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Georgia EV conversion tax credit?
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) RE: Water heaters
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Energy required to heat batteries
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Energy required to heat batteries
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Georgia EV conversion tax credit?
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) RE: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) RE: Georgia EV conversion tax credit?
by "Curtis Muhlestein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Cafe Electric blog
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Water heaters
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: EV  controllers? the 4th option...
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Water heaters
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: EV suppliers
by "Mike Harvey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Water heaters
by "Mike Harvey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Water heaters
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) RE: [BULK]  Re: Carbon Dioxide and EVs - a loser?
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: Georgia EV conversion tax credit?
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Georgia EV conversion tax credit?
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: Georgia EV conversion tax credit?
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: [BULK]  Re: Carbon Dioxide and EVs - a loser?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: Water heaters
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: Georgia EV conversion tax credit?
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: Georgia EV conversion tax credit?
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: Georgia EV conversion tax credit?
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) Defensless Driving  WAS Re: Georgia EV conversion tax credit?
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---

Danny,

This is what I was looking for.  I guess I should have looked further before 
asking.  The NREL website listed some Battery Heating tests with 
976J/(Kg*Deg C).  So you've got some pretty good bar napkin calculations.


As far as Lee's data to maintain battery temperature, that wasn't really 
what I was after.


I should have clarified my requirements.  This is on my drag bike.  There 
isn't an actual battery box.  Batteries on heated on a few random sides. 
What little 'insulation' I do have is corrogated plastic.  The heating is to 
bring the battery up to a higher temperature.  I'm not worried about 
maintaining that temperature, as I will keep the heaters on until a few 
minutes before a run.


So the problem are probably as Danny described:
Heater not fully contacting the battery, and heat is going into the air 
instead of the battery.


Also, this heating is probably not very uniform.

OK, here's my other problem, I often turn on the heaters on the way to the 
drag strip.  What heat I'm putting into the pack is being taken out by the 
65MPH wind.


Sounds like I'm on the right track, just a few things to enhance.


Thanks all.

Darin
BadFishRacing

- Original Message - 
From: "Danny Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 5:23 PM
Subject: Re: Energy required to heat batteries


A quick web search shows specific heat of lead is 129 J/(kg*K).  Water is 
4,186 J/(kg*K).

Specific heat of the acid should be close to water.

This is interesting.  While the mass of the battery is mostly lead, the 
effect of water is so much higher that the ratio of lead to water with 
that battery's construction is going to make a significant difference.


Let's say 3/4 of the mass of the battery is lead, the 1/4 is water, for a 
net of 1143 J/(kg*K).  I pulled this number out of my ass.  Feel free to 
debate it.  I believe a gelled battery probably used less acid than a 
flooded and thus would have a much lower heat capacity- potentially by 
several times.


Let's see... 88 lbs of batteries= 40 kg.

180w for 1 hr= 648,000 J

This should have been enough to raise the batteries 14C, or 25.5F, per 
hour, for a 1143 J/(kg*K).


Possible reasons why they wouldn't heat up:
1.  The heating element is not running anywhere near 180W.
2.  The heat is transferring to the air and not into the batteries' mass.
3.  The heat is transferring into the battery's mass, but the battery is 
being cooled down by its exposed surface area so it never achieves a much 
warmer temp than the surrounding air.


Danny

BFRListmail wrote:


Hello all,

I've been trying to find out how much heat it will take to warm up a 
battery pack. 

EV digest 6129

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

ash apart.
Making and installing ceramic heater will take more than one day,
which may or may not make sense depending how much your time worth.


Of course, this depends on the car. My Renault heater assembly comes out 
with two bolts, a couple screws, and a connector. Other cars require 
disassembling the entire dashboard.



FWIW, I'm not aware or any OEM EV using ceramic heaters.


Our Toyota Prius has a ceramic heater *and* a water heater.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in--Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

Mike Harvey wrote:
So, after you install all these safety features, aren't you up way over 
a day's work to install?


It's quick and easy if you just buy a complete heater (water heater or 
ceramic). But if you're going to build it yourself, then it can indeed 
be a lot of work.


If you've done this sort of thing before, building a heater is not all 
that difficult. There are a few "tricks", but they aren't too hard to 
learn. Things like building it safe, and making it regulate temperature 
reasonably well.


For a ceramic heater, buy an inexpensive 120vac unit and take it apart. 
Study it carefully. You will see working solutions to all the various 
problems: Mounting the electrically "live" and thermally "hot" heating 
element. A thermostat to regulate its temperature. A safety fuse, and a 
safety overtemperature cutoff in case of trouble. A fan that moves 
enough air.


Now, these are only *examples* of what needs to be done. They are 
***NOT*** workable parts for your DC-operated EV heater!!! You will only 
be able to use the ceramic element itself (and maybe part of the case), 
but the fan, thermostat, fuse, and cutout will all need to be replaced 
with DC-rated parts, or you will have to use them to operate a relay 
with high voltage DC-rated contacts to switch the heating element.


For a water heater, you can also buy an inexpensive one as an example. 
Electric water heaters have an insulated tank, a 120v or 240v heating 
element (which works on AC or DC), and a thermostat, fuse, and cutout. 
Again, you will have to replace them with DC rated ones, or use them to 
operate a relay. In some cases, water heaters have 277vac double-pole, 
snap-acting switches that can be used on 120vdc with an RC snubber 
across them. This occurs where they use the same high-voltage thermostat 
in all models of a water heater to save money.


And of course, you will need a pump rated for hot water.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in--Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

Arthur W. Matteson wrote:

I'm currently attempting to build a 450V, 100kW AC controller from 75V
MOSFETs.  It will be immersed in transformer oil to increase the PCB
traces' current rating (try it in water, it's neat).

  

450V controller from 75V mosfets? How'd you do that?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

Yes, BOTH the hairball and the power section contain micros.

The power section does the PWM and voltage/current/temp limiting. It is  
designed to provide PWM output while protecting the IGBTs. Even at full  
output, the IGBTs are switched off periodically to make sure they haven't  
failed ON.


The hairball handles all of the interface wiring, tach output, precharge,  
series/parallel switching, dash lights, etc. It is the 'sacrificial lamb'  
for dumb wiring mistakes, making repairs simpler. You can ship them  
priority mail for $5 and Otmar can patch 'em up quickly and inexpensively.  
Ask me how I know :)


The hairball and power section communicate periodically over an isolated  
interface. If an IGBT fails ON or communictions are lost, PWM output is  
set to 0% and the main contactor is disengaged. This is a BIG safety  
advantage over a Curtis controller.


Other bonuses to the split design - you can upgrade the power section  
without touching the 12V wiring, and new features can be added to the  
hairball without affecting the safety and reliability of the power section.


That said, the power section is basically a "dumb box" with a micro added  
for extra safety checks. It's probably marginally "smarter" than a Curtis  
controller.


DISCLAIMER - this information was gleaned through reading past EVDL posts,  
snippets of conversations with Otmar, and careful examination of my Z1K  
before installation :)


Adrian

.

On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:28:00 -0800, Electric Vehicle Discussion List  
 wrote:



Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
Nick Viera wrote:

Sure I'm aware that the Zilla is a 2 u

EV digest 6130

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

cheated and didn't
> ground the cord), someone 
> could be shocked or even electrocuted.  I've read
> that children can be 
> killed or injured by currents that would only be an
> annoyance to adults, so 
> this is nothing to be careless about.  I can just
> see the headline - "Boy, 
> 7, electrocuted by electric car."
> 
> Please get an isolated charger, or an isolation
> transformer.  I hope you at 
> least have a GFI.  If not, get one right away - and
> use it every time you 
> charge.
> 
> It's one thing to use a "bad boy" charger in your
> own garage.  But without 
> wanting to upset or insult you, I have to say that I
> have some problems with 
> the ethics of using an unisolated and unprotected
> charging system in a 
> public place.
> 
> 
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Assistant Administrator
> 
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> = = = = = = =
> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while
> you're on vacation,
> or switch to digest mode?  See how:
> http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> = = = = = = = 
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses
> will not reach me.  
> To send a private message, please obtain my email
> address from
> the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> = = = = = = =
> 
> 



 

Want to start your own business?
Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Once isolated can they be added to make
30amps-120volts?


--- Bruce <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Couldn't you put one isolation transformer on each
> 120 volt outlet?
> Then connect 2 of the 4 wires together and use the
> other 2 wires to power a
> 220 volt charger?
> 
> mike golub wrote:
> If I double the outlets I could charge at ~30amps.
> 
> 



 

Want to start your own business?
Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---


On Nov 11, 2006, at 3:44 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:


From: Mike Sandman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: November 11, 2006 9:02:49 AM PST
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: A programme for the Dems: Energy Independence, free  
NiMH,oil  tax



Peter VanDerWal wrote:

I'd be happy if they'd just quit subsidizing the oil companies.

amen!


The price of gas has already started to rise; there's no reason to
believe that the oil companies won't use the excuse of "peak  
oil" to
jack prices as high as they wish, and reduce competition and  
regulation

while they can.

Yup. After years of keeping the price of gasoline lower than bottled
water, they have finally allowed it to go up to near it's real cost.
Right now, however, it's falling back to previous levels.  A shame  
really,

while it was at $3 a gallon even the republicans were talking about
electric cars.
i suspect that since the elections are over, will see a price  
correction back toward the real cost.  might even go much higher  
this time.  it would be in the interest of the republican  
constituents (i.e. oil companies and such) to push the prices very  
high in an attempt to show the voting public that they made a  
mistake in changing the guard--a silly tactics but one can hope.   
this might be a win for EVs, IMHO. when gas passes $4/gal and  
starts sneaking up on $5, americans will start demanding  
"something" be done.  this "something" could be EVs if a few other  
things fall into place.


For those on the list who don't know approximately 6% of world oil is  
owned by private oil companies,  i.e. Standard Oil, Texaco Oil,  
Exxon, Shell, etc.  Another ~20% is controlled by private oil  
companies in the form of short to long term contracts with the oils  
owners, mostly governments.  The rest, approximately 74%, is  
controlled by governments directly like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq,  
Mexico, Argentina, Russia, Kuwait, UAE.   By far the largest share of  
money from oil pumped goes to governments.  As an example Alaska, and  
the U.S. government take 66% of Alaskan oil sales.  Mexico takes 60%  
of Pemex's income from oil, and Argentina takes 82%.  So people who  
rail against "the oil company profits", or "they are lowering prices  
to help the Republicans", and are silent on the government windfalls  
show that they more anti-capitalist than wanting to solve a problem.


We are now at Peak Oil, and no amount of subsidies will increase  
production.  E

EV digest 6131

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

 >
  > >From: Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
  > >Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
  > >To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
  > >Subject: RE: Water heaters
  > >Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:42:05 -0800
  > >
  > >The ceramic heater element's resistance is highly dependent on
  temperature.
  > >The effect is that the hotter it gets, the less current it draws.
  > >
  > And, at least for the one I bought from KTA, the current is also lower
  when
  > it's  cool ( for instance, when first turned on) .
  > The ceramic heater element, when mounted in my car, draws less current at
  > very low AND very high blower speeds.  There is a "sweet spot" in the
  middle
  > of the blower range where it draws the most current ( and, produces the
  most
  > heat).
  >
  > One beneficial side effect is that it is easier on the relay to make the
  > initial connection at low current.
  >
  > Phil
  >
  > _
  > All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC.  Get a free 90-day trial!
  >
  
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo005002msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.windowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail<http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo005002msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.windowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail>
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > -- 
  > No virus found in this incoming message.
  > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
  > Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.5/533 - Release Date: 11/13/2006
  >
  >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

Storm Connors wrote:

Does this mean that the recent paranoia about burning up my car with
one is somewhat overblown? What happens to one of these if the only
airflow is convective currents. How hot will they get if there is no
fan running? 


A ceramic heater draws less current as it gets hotter; this tends to 
limit the maximum temperature that it reaches. The exact temperature is 
hard to predict, because it depends on airflow and applied voltage, but 
is on the order of 200-300 deg.F.


That's not hot enough to directly start a fire, but it *will* melt many 
plastics, insulation, and solder. This can cause bad connections or 
short circuits, and indirectly start a fire.


The cheap consumer ceramic heaters don't use materials that can 
withstand these temperatures; they depend on overtemperature cutout 
switchs and fuses to turn it off before the heater can reach these 
temperatures. The risk we are discussing is that these devices won't 
work on high voltage DC.

--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in--Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

mike golub wrote:

It seems perhaps the safer thing to do is to get a bad
boy circuit out of 240vac to produce more amps than
the typical 120vac bad boy?


Except that it's harder to find 240vac outlets "in the wild", while 
120vac outlets are everywhere.


Around here (Minnesota), they often wire several 120vac outdoor outlets 
for block heaters to a single 15a or 20a breaker (where "several" could 
be as many as 6). They are counting on all outlets not being used at 
once, and/or block heaters that only draw 200-300 watts. It seems to 
work out, though it isn't uncommon to find them with the breakers off.


If you plug two "bad boy" chargers (i.e. nothing but a bridge rectifier) 
into two different 120vac outlets to charge one battery, there are a 
number of things that can happen, depending on the circumstances:


1. Two 120vac outlets, fed from the same breaker.

 - Total charging current and voltage is exactly the same as for one
bad-boy charger (using two gets you nothing).
 - Current is being limited by the one 120vac breaker.
 - GFCIs will shut you down (because nothing says the hot and neutral
currents will match).

2. Two 120vac outlets, fed from separate breakers, but both on the
   same AC phase.

 - You can draw twice as much current *if* the bad-boys have some
way to balance the current that each draws (resistance or
inductance). Without this, whichever one happens to have a
little less resistance or a little higher AC voltage will
trip its breaker. This shifts load to the remaining breaker,
which will then also trip.
 - GFCIs will shut you down.

3. Two 120vac outlets, fed from *different* AC phases.

 - This circuit behaves like a single bridge rectifier, plugged into
a 240vac outlet. In other words, you'd better have over a
    240vdc pack or it will immediately trip b

EV digest 6132

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6132

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) RE: [BULK]  Re: Dual outlet opportunity charging;-30F
by "Lawrence Lile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Tesla Motors Honored with Award from Pop Mechanics
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Firefly Energy joining EDTA :: details
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Tesla Motors Honored with Award from Pop Mechanics
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Optima & Orbital Dimensions
by Ben Apollonio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Water heaters
by canev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Tesla Motors Honored with Award from Pop Mechanics
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  8) Re: watthour meter AC side
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Water heaters
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: Tesla Motors Honored with Award from Pop Mechanics
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Firefly Energy joining EDTA :: details
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: subscribe ev Ben Apollonio
by Ben Apollonio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: subscribe ev Ben Apollonio
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Firefly Energy joining EDTA :: details
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Tesla Motors Honored with Award from Pop Mechanics
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: watthour meter AC side
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Begin Message ---

>  It seems if you had the plates, you
could wire your own.
What type of material are the plates made from?

The plates are made from a special "type E" steel, however mild steel
works almost as well.  The plates are thin to limit hysteresis losses,
however thick plates work almost as well.  The transformer is would with
tightly compacted wires, however loosely compacted ones made by clamping
the whole mess into a homemade spinning jig works almost as well.  What
you end up with is a transformer that doesn't work very well, but is
relatively cheap, and gobbled up a couple of weekends to fabricate.

Your best bet is to look for a transformer at Burden's Surplus in
Lincoln, NE.  I've bought several there for a song.  

--Lawrence LIle

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
5. Tesla Motors Honored with Award from Pop Mechanics
Posted by: "Remy Chevalier" [EMAIL PROTECTED] cleannewworld
Date: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:16 pm ((PST))

TESLA MOTORS RECEIVES PRESTIGIOUS

'BREAKTHROUGH AWARD' FROM POPULAR MECHANICS

Magazine Honors Silicon Valley Manufacturer of Performance
Electric Vehicles

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Contact: Dan Smith, PCGCampbell (310) 224-4954 or
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

NEW YORK (October 5, 2006) - Tesla Motors, manufacturers of
performance electric cars, was named a recipient of a 2006 Popular Mechanics
Breakthrough Award for its work in developing the Tesla Roadster, the
world's first all-electric production sports car. The magazine's editors
presented the 2006 winners their awards Wednesday evening at the
publication's new home, the Hearst Tower in New York City.

Popular Mechanics salutes 10 advancements each year--and their
innovators--that promise to shape the future by improving lives and
expanding possibilities in the realms of science, technology and
exploration. 2006 is the second year the publication has presented its
Breakthrough Awards.

The Tesla Roadster is the first automobile to receive a
Breakthrough Award.

"The Breakthrough Awards distinguish those ideas and inventions
that are changing the face of technology, and the Tesla Roadster is leading
an automotive revolution," said James Meigs, editor-in-chief of Popular
Mechanics.  "Martin Eberhard and his team at Tesla Motors have developed a
car with something for everyone-speed, great handling, good looks and zero
emissions."

"We're pleased to receive the Breakthrough Award," said
Eberhard, CEO and co-founder of Tesla Motors. "We wanted to make a car that
was fun to drive and environmentally responsible. Our key breakthrough is
the concept of using Lithium-ion batteries which have long been used in
laptops, cell phones, cameras, and power tools.  Due to the number of cells
that are used in a car we had to develop some unique technology for managing
the temperature, charge balance and safety of the Tesla battery pack."

Tesla Motors, based in San Carlos, Calif., in the heart of
Silicon Valley, is in the process of bringing the all-electric Tesla
Roadster sports car to market. It is capable of going from zero to 60 mph in
around four seconds, has a top speed of better than 130 mph, and can travel
up to 250 miles on a single charge. The car's power comes from its
Lithium-ion Energy Storage System, or battery pack, which can be recharged
in about 3.5 hours. First deliveries are expected to begin next summer.

A com

EV digest 6133

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6133

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) RE: Tesla Motors Honored with Award from Pop Mechanics
by "Lawrence Lile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Water heaters
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Tesla Motors Honored with Award from Pop Mechanics
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  4) Re: Tesla Motors Honored with Award from Pop Mechanics
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  5) Lead acid terminal types
by John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Water heaters
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: China Knock-offs (Re: "Strange EV on eBay" round 2)
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Dual outlet opportunity charging;-30F
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Firefly Energy joining EDTA :: details
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: Water heaters
by "Joseph H. Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Flooded vs. Dry cell nicads
by john bart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Dual outlet opportunity charging;-30F
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Dual outlet opportunity charging;-30F
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) RE: Dual outlet opportunity charging;-30F
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) RE: Water heaters
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) RE: Water heaters
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) RE: Water heaters
by "Arthur W. Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: China Knock-offs (Re: "Strange EV on eBay" round 2)
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) RE: China Knock-offs (Re: "Strange EV on eBay" round 2)
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) RE: Water heaters
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Batteries
by howard maroz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) RE: Maybe one to rescue in NY?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: Flooded vs. Dry cell nicads
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: Firefly Energy joining EDTA :: details
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: Flooded vs. Dry cell nicads
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
If ya gotta ask, you can't afford it. 

 
 
Lawrence Lile

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Phil Marino
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 5:55 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Tesla Motors Honored with Award from Pop Mechanics


I give up - I couldn't find the price on their website.  Anyone know
what 
the price of a Tesla is?

Phil

>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

>
>You don't have to wonder.  Visit their website:  www.teslamotors.com.
>All the info is there.
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>Sent: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 3:08 PM
>Subject: Re: Tesla Motors Honored with Award from Pop Mechanics
>
>
>I want one :)
>Wonder what they are selling for?
>Way, way, beyond my means I am sure.
>
>-Tehben
>

_
Get today's hot entertainment gossip  
http://movies.msn.com/movies/hotgossip?icid=T002MSN03A07001
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

Lee Hart wrote:

Storm Connors wrote:

Does this mean that the recent paranoia about burning up my car with
one is somewhat overblown? What happens to one of these if the only
airflow is convective currents. How hot will they get if there is no
fan running? 


A ceramic heater draws less current as it gets hotter; this tends to 
limit the maximum temperature that it reaches. The exact temperature 
is hard to predict, because it depends on airflow and applied voltage, 
but is on the order of 200-300 deg.F.


That's not hot enough to directly start a fire, but it *will* melt 
many plastics, insulation, and solder. This can cause bad connections 
or short circuits, and indirectly start a fire.


The cheap consumer ceramic heaters don't use materials that can 
withstand these temperatures; they depend on overtemperature cutout 
switchs and fuses to turn it off before the heater can reach these 
temperatures. The risk we are discussing is that these devices won't 
work on high voltage DC.


Would these work well in such an application?

http://www.omega.com/ppt/pptsc.asp?ref=CCD100&Nav=heap08

It uses an epoxy-sealed housing with a bimetal disk tied to a 277V/25A 
SPDT switch...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That is cash up front.  I know a gentleman who offered to put 100,000 in escrow 
to be released upon delivery of the car and Tesla refused.

--
In Friendship,  Ted
//ted.sanders.home.comcast.net
//ffni.home.comcast.net

 -- Original message --
From: Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> They didn't seem to have a price??
> Someone said $100,000.00
> 
> 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, I double checked and sure enough they took the price down.  It was on 
the right side of t

EV digest 6134

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6134

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Got my copy of "Who Killed the Electric Car" today!
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Lead acid terminal types
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Flooded vs. Dry cell nicads
by john bart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Lead acid terminal types
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Water heaters
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Changing Output Voltage on Zivan NG3 Battery Chargers
by "Bruce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: China Knock-offs (Re: "Strange EV on eBay" round 2)
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re:NEDRA records - Production classes?
by "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Maxwell Tech Intro's 125v Ultracap Module for heavy Hybrid and EVs
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) RE: Lead acid terminal types
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Batteries
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Batteries
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) RE: Maxwell Tech Intro's 125v Ultracap Module for heavy Hybrid an
d EVs
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Tesla Motors Honored with Award from Pop Mechanics
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Lead acid terminal types, Again! For the Newbees Here.
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Water heaters
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Well, happy to say I was able to find a copy of the movie locally today! It did 
take me a little while though. I first tried Best Buy. That particular location 
did not have it, but the employees were very helpful and were able to look up 
the other stores, most of which had at least 3 copies in stock. I tried a near 
by Circuit City, they didn't have it. I went inside the mall I was circling and 
found a Suncoast video store. They're generally more expensive, but they have 
odd-ball stuff you won't find elsewhere. I walked around the store for a few 
minutes looking for a documentary section or special intrest, and didn't find 
it. I was about to go ask if they had it when I glanced over and there it was 
right in front on a rack! I think it was the only copy there, but I didn't 
care, I had found it!

With a big smile on my face I went to the counter, set it down and gleefully 
said "you have it"! To my suprise the girl at the checkout said she wanted to 
see it. "It's very good" I said. "Ohh where'd you see it?" she asked. Me 
"Camelview 5".  "Ohh, it didn't play long there did it?". Me "Only two weeks, 
but I did help sell out some of the opening night showings." 

Now this is the ironic part; the mall I bought the movie at is the Fiesta Mall 
in Mesa, AZ. This mall used to have an electric vehicle charging station, but 
it has long since been removed. Looking at the old EV1 club web site I'm 90% 
sure I was able to figure out where it used to be. There's usually a little 
hump in the black top where the charger pedestal used to be.

The DVD has some good specail featuers including deleted scenes and some cool 
behind the scene footage from the filming. I won't ruin the suprise for anyone 
though.

I'm watching it for a 2nd time today. I think I'm going to give my Saturn 
conversion a hug now.



Later,
Ricky
02 Insight - Sold
06 Civic IMA
92 Saturn SC2 EV 144 Volt
Glendale, AZ USA
 
-
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When the guy @ Interstate took them back, he should've
melted on the proper type.  You would've had to deal
with sealing issues, as they would've melted the
plastic a bit, (ie, use Nocote spray, etc). 
Same thing happened to me.  Where do they GET these
guys?!
   As far as "will it work..."
It depends.  Are you pulling higher (450+ amperes) or
more like 250-300A?  Higher voltages, or lower
voltages?  Ie, the higher the current, the bigger risk
of melting a terminal and having too small a surface
area to contact.
   Personally, I've used the copper strip contacts,
and the 2.0 welding cable (currently).  So I have no
experience with any other type of lug/terminal setup. 
But these would be the questions I'd be concerned with
first.


--- John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I am in the process of procuring batteries and would
> like some input on 
> terminal types for flooded lead acid batteries. I
> realize ElectroAuto 
> recommends the 'L' style terminal and in "Convert
> It" they present what 
> looks to be a good argument against the types with a
> steel post 
> sticking out of the terminal (cold creep if you keep
> them tight, loose 
> connection, high resistance and possible fire hazard
> if you do not keep 
> them tight all the time).
> 
> I ordered a set of batteries (with L terminals) from
> one of the US 
> Battery dealers in my region, however they showed up
> with what l

EV digest 6135

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6135

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Batteries, Beasties an' Stuff.
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Optima & Orbital Dimensions
by EVSource <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) KillaCycle Team, Back from Las Vegas
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: KillaCycle Team, Back from Las Vegas
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  5) Re: Got my copy of "Who Killed the Electric Car" today!
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: KillaCycle Team, Back from Las Vegas
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  7) Parallel packs.
by nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) RE: Water heaters
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Battery Addative for Floodies?
by "Mike Harvey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: Lead acid terminal types
by "Mike Harvey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Parallel packs.
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Lead acid terminal types
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Parallel packs.
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: go kart ideas and parts sources
by "Joe Vitek" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: KillaCycle Team, Back from Las Vegas
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) RE: Parallel packs.
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Email or Web address doubles up.
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: Water heaters
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: go kart ideas and parts sources
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) RE: Lead acid terminal types
by "Nawaz Qureshi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---

> Hello Howard,
> I think you needs a Red Beastie sorta thing? A Toyota or other sturdy
pickup that he can load 40 golf cart batteries in series parallel. Of course
were talking frarsome weight here, up in the Roland W. size thing But you
WILL get the range you are looking for. Several other guyz here have stuffed
40 batteri into a truck. It's a how-deep-are-your-pockets thing?Were only
talking about 2600 lbs of battery!Nothing on a RR car, thats about what
they used to carry for lighting!But you CAN beef up a Toyota truck to
carry that. John Wayland did. Unfortunately it was killed in the famous Tony
Acrizzi Dumptruck Disaster. I helped him cut it up after. Was sad to torch
the still intact chassis, cutting away the frame, driveshaft and suspension
to free the still good motor and tranny. In retrospect I shoulda torched ALL
the sheetmetal away and trailered home the chassis, burnt, but still
structurally sound.

   Bottom line; think LEAD for range, trucks will do it.

Seeya

Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

Hi Ben and all,

On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 18:18:51 -0500, Ben Apollonio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Could someone with an Optima and/or Orbital
> dig out their ruler and calipers and take some measurements for me?  To
> simplify discussion, I've labeled the dimensions I need at
> http://bapollo.com/battery.jpg
> 

Maybe the information on this page will help:

http://www.evsource.com/faqs/batteries/orbital_dimensions.php

-Ryan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

We set a new record! (More on that later.)

The KillaCycle team (me, Scotty Pollacheck, Steve Ciciora, Derek 
Barger, and Scot Colburn) just got back from the All Harley Drag 
Racing Association (AHDRA) event at Las Vegas. I believe that the 
KillaCycle was the very first non-Harley motorcycle ever to 
participate in the Las Vegas AHDRA event, ever. Quite an honor.


The reception was warm, but the weather was a bit chilly at times. 
This made it difficult to get all 880 of the A123 Systems lithium ion 
cells up to the toasty temperature where they deliver the most HP. 
During the course of the event, we progressively posted better times 
as we figured out ways of warming up the pack. On Saturday morning, 
we ran a restrained 10.19 @130 mph just to shake down the bike and 
cycle the pack. (900 pack amps, 374 volts.) Neither the fans or the 
tower announcer were expecting a nearly silent drag bike, so there 
were a lot of puzzled looks and "What the heck was THAT!" comments 
after the run.


	This event is the AHDRA season finale, so there were a LOT of bikes 
running. (Great track prep by AHDRA, by the way.) We were very lucky 
to get three runs in all day. (10.19, 9.217 and 9.346) The runs were 
many hours apart, so we couldn't get the A123 Systems pack 
temperature up to the desired 70 degrees Celsius for maximum power. 
(Other brands of Li-Ion cells would be ablaze at this temperature, by 
the way.) We knew we had to figure out a new strategy for Sunday.


	By the end of Saturday, all the Harley fans knew who we were and 
were universally positive about the bike. We had a parade of tattooed 
bikers patting us on the back and telling us how much they liked the 
KillaCycle.


	Scotty worked with the AHDRA officials and scheduled our Sunday

EV digest 6136

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6136

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: KillaCycle Team, Back from Las Vegas
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Video is on YouTube (was: KillaCycle Team, Back from Las Vegas)
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Lead acid terminal types
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: KillaCycle Team, Back from Las Vegas
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) shunt motor controller help
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Lead acid terminal types
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Rechargable alkalines?
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: go kart ideas and parts sources
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Racing Starter
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: KillaCycle Team, Back from Las Vegas
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Optima & Orbital Dimensions
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 12) Re: Parallel packs.
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Video is on YouTube (was: KillaCycle Team, Back from Las Vegas)
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Parallel packs.
by nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Parallel packs.
by nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: KillaCycle Team, Back from Las Vegas
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: KillaCycle Team, Back from Las Vegas
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: Video is on YouTube (was: KillaCycle Team, Back from Las
  Vegas)
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Lead acid terminal types
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
The A123 Systems cells are giving us much more HP than the Bolder TMF 
cells did.


We are focused on the Elapsed Time (ET) right now. We have set up the 
bike to get to the end of the strip as quickly as possible, since 
this is the main idea behind drag racing. :-) Our best ET with TMF 
cells was 9.45 seconds. We routinely run lower times than that now.


If we changed the gearing, we could trade ET for MPH. It is quite 
likely that we could top our old MPH record if we set up the bike for 
maximizing MPH. Perhaps we will do that, just for fun, sometime.


Bill Dube'

At 08:32 AM 11/15/2006, you wrote:

  Hi Bill;

   Way to go! Congrats! To all of ya! And right in Hog Heaven, Sorry,
couldn't resist. Had the weather been dry at Joliet, ya might have run those
times there?Looks like your closing in on the old Bolder Battery record of
153 or so?

  A heartwarming morning read.Let us know when it hits"You Tube" YT is sure
great for getting the EV word out to the world, it's more than train /truck
crashes, and Bullet Train runbys!

Bob
- Original Message -
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 3:32 AM
Subject: KillaCycle Team, Back from Las Vegas


> We set a new record! (More on that later.)
>
> The KillaCycle team (me, Scotty Pollacheck, Steve Ciciora, Derek
> Barger, and Scot Colburn) just got back from the All Harley Drag
> Racing Association (AHDRA) event at Las Vegas. I believe that the
> KillaCycle was the very first non-Harley motorcycle ever to
> participate in the Las Vegas AHDRA event, ever. Quite an honor.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Scot Colburn just put up the awesome video on YouTube. (Scotty 
Pollacheck's girlfriend, Susan, took this fantastic video.)


Here's the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dRpAZci9m0

And a better way to put the link on your website:

http://www.youtube.com/v/3dRpAZci9m0";>http://www.youtube.com/v/3dRpAZci9m0";
type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="600"
height="350">

Bill Dube'
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Nawaz, 

Will file this email for future reference.  I will not need any batteries for 
the next 5 years.  I would need the large L terminals in a very hard lead that 
my large very heavy duty T&B wire terminals would fit.  It also depends on the 
spacing, so I can use the existing terminals connections. 

Roland 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Nawaz Qureshi 
  To: 'Roland Wiench' 
  Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; 
ev@listproc.sjsu.edu 
  Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 9:14 AM
  Subject: RE: Lead acid terminal types


  Hi Roland:

  For the USBMC deep cycle batteries you should be able to get any of the
  terminals shown in the link below except the "bus lug" which are available
  on the 8D-HC batteries only.

  
http://www.usbattery.com/pages/usbterminals.htm

  Please contact your dealer, or your nearest Interstate Battery System of
  America, Inc., to order the batteries with the "Small L" terminals. If you
  have problems with the dealer not handling your request, please contact
  Christie Dellario at 

EV digest 6139

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6139

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Water heaters
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: watthour meter AC side
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Batteries
by howard maroz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Email or Web address doubles up.
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: shunt motor controller help
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: go kart ideas and parts sources
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Lead acid terminal types
by "Mike Harvey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: EVLN(DaimlerChrysler stops Chinese knock offs)
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Changing Output Voltage on Zivan NG3 Battery Chargers
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 10) Re: go kart ideas and parts sources
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: EVLN(Nay sayers said Tom Carpenter's EV conversion was a
  no go)
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: EVLN(DaimlerChrysler stops Chinese knock offs)
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Batteries
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Water heaters
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Batteries
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 16) Re: Battery chemistry questions
by "R Patterson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: KillaCycle Team, Back from Las Vegas
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: Lead acid terminal types
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) RE: micro-CHP another way to charge?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Why do they Bother?  WAS(DaimlerChrysler stops Chinese knock offs)
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Blocking all airflow seems an extreme test. How did they fare with convective 
flow? 
It sounds like the voltage should be dropped to like 120v? What would be the 
best way to do this?
Thanks,
storm

- Original Message 
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 11:32:20 AM
Subject: Re: Water heaters

 >> Hot enough to melt plastic air ducts and start fires!

canev wrote:
> Have you had this experience?

I've melted down a couple inexpensive ceramic heaters in testing them at 
their limits. But I haven't had any of Randy Holmquist's elements or 
heaters to test.

The inexpensive ones were in $20-$40 heaters. I found that the plastic 
frame used to hold the ceramic element, the fan blades, and other 
related parts were NOT able to withstand the peak temperature that the 
heater could produce. They melted! But, they had thermal fuses and 
cutouts that (in theory) prevented them from getting this hot.

In anticipation of using one in my EV, I tried blocking all airflow and 
running it on 132vdc (my pack voltage at the time). Going by memory, it 
got up to about 250 deg.F where it melted its plastic support.

The ceramic element's current does indeed fall as it gets hotter. When 
completely blocked, it fell from a peak of 9 amps to under 0.5 amps at 
120vac and nearly 300 deg.F.

Another thing to watch out for is the effect of higher voltage. At these 
very high temperatures, a small increase in voltage caused a large 
increase in current. When I tried 132vdc, the current went up to 1 amp 
and got even hotter, but my thermometer didn't go past 300 deg.F.

> I had a fleet customer with a Nissan pick up a few years (12 years)
> ago that had a defective heater relay... It had done no damage to
> any of the duct or the element...

It is good to hear that he had a safe outcome. It may have been due to a 
superior heater design, or just plain luck.

All I'm saying is that the cheap ceramic elements I tested were *easily* 
capable of getting hot enough to melt all the plastic in their mounting, 
and the ductwork in your car.
-- 
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in--Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net




--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Anybody tried the TriMetric? http://www.bogartengineering.com/trimetric.htm 
They suggest that  a resistor could be used to divide input voltage by 10. That 
could make it usable from 120-480v. I believe it handles 400 amps. For under 
$200.

- Original Message 
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 11:04:35 AM
Subject: Re: watthour meter AC side

mike golub wrote:
> What do you use to measure watts when dealing with more than 15amps.
> The killowatt, and wattsup, don't go that high. Perhaps I could beef
> one up?

I have several old analog wattmeters in various sizes. The "old 
standard" method of measuring AC amps and watts is with a current 
transformer. They look like a big donut. The wire whose current is to be 
sensed goes thru the hole in the cente

EV digest 6140

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

t even use 
it

 >  at 100 amps.
 >
 >  The terminals with a 5/16" stud are intended for low current loads, 
like

 >  75 amp golf carts. You should never use it for high currents; it will
 >  quickly fail and give you lots of trouble.
 >
 >  The old automotive post is the best high-current connector. They hold 
up

 >  to at least 300 amps continuous, and survive peaks over 1000 amps. But
 >  for it to work, you need a good terminal. Not the cheap cast lead 
ones,

 >  or made out of bent sheet metal! I like the solid copper ones, though
 >  brass is also good.
 >
 >  Both copper and brass need to be completely covered, or they will
 >  corrode. I prefer lead-dipped, but tin or gold also work. Note that 
the
 >  gold plating on terminals is usually cosmetic only; the gold is too 
thin

 >  to have any real effect on corrosion.
 >
 >  > To solve this problem, I ordered ring type battery connectors from
 >  > Wirthco.com. These are like the marine type but is forged brass,
 >  > with a removable bolt that is gold plated... part #22205
 >
 >  Do you mean
 >
 > 
http://www.wirthco.com/product_info.php/cPath/7_98/products_id/401<http://www.wirthco.com/product_info.php/cPath/7_98/products_id/401<http://www.wirthco.com/product_info.php/cPath/7_98/products_id/401%3Chttp://www.wirthco.com/product_info.php/cPath/7_98/products_id/401>>

 >
 >  This is a showy cheap terminal, of the temporary repair type; not one
 >  built for good performance.
 >
 >  I'd suggest #22120 instead, and then lead-dip it after the wire is
 >  installed. Notice the thicker cross section, larger contact area, two
 >  bolts instead of one, etc.
 >
 > 
http://www.wirthco.com/product_info.php/cPath/7_98/products_id/399<http://www.wirthco.com/product_info.php/cPath/7_98/products_id/399<http://www.wirthco.com/product_info.php/cPath/7_98/products_id/399%3Chttp://www.wirthco.com/product_info.php/cPath/7_98/products_id/399>>

 >
 >  These did not work, because these T-145 pads are 1 inch in diameter 
and

 > would not set all the down against the pad L bar. Need the thinner one
 > which fit just right.
 >
 >  Trojan offer to install the auto post on them, but It would cost me 
about

 > $1000.00 to ship them back to them and back to me.  So I will make do,
 > with these until I get new batteries, which may not be the lead type.
 >
 >  Roland
 >
 >  -- 
 >  Ring the bells that still can ring

 >  Forget the perfect offering
 >  There is a crack in everything
 >  That's how the light gets in--Leonard Cohen
 >  --
 >  Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, 
leeahart_at_earthlink.net

 >
 >


--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Reminder -
East Bay EAA meeting this Saturday (on 3rd Saturday
rather than usual 4th Saturday due to Thanksgiving
holiday). No meeting in December, so this is our last
meeting of the year.

-Ed Thorpe
EBEAA Secretary & webmaster
www.ebeaa.org

> *START OF MEETING ANNOUNCEMENT***
> Topic: EVs for Dummies: The Electrathon
> Date: Saturday, Nov, 18, 2006
> Time: 10 am to 12 noon.
> Site: Alameda First Baptist Church
>   1515 Santa Clara Ave, Alameda 
> Visitors welcome, open to the public. 
> 
> This will be our last Chapter meeting of 2006.
> Besides
> holding our usual election / selection of Chapter
> leadership for 2007, we also have a special
> presentation by Chapter member Bob Cooley on new
> efforts in the East Bay to introduce Electrathons.
> 
> Bob has been instrumental in getting a couple of
> local
> High Schools started with this great hands-on
> educational and sports activity. Electrathons have
> been around for many years. It is a type electric
> marathon race of High School age students, in which
> the winner is determined by how far you go in a
> certain time with a given amount of battery power.
> In
> addition to creating races and competitions between
> schools, each school creates a class for students to
> be involved with the building, testing and
> refinement
> of these vehicles.
> 
> Come see what an Electrathon is all about and how we
> can support efforts to educating our students
> through
> this medium.. Also other EVs will be on-hand and
> informal Q&A can take place in the parking lot.
> 
> See you there.
> 
> http://www.ebeaa.org
> 
> *END OF MEETING ANNOUNCEMENT***



 

Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---





From: Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
Subjec

EV digest 6141

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6141

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Lead acid terminal types
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: large NIMH available?
by nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: large NIMH available?
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Lead acid terminal types
by "Mike Harvey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Water heaters
by "Mike Harvey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: KillaCycle Team, Back from Las Vegas - THE VIDEO
by "Derek Barger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Lead acid terminal types
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Lead acid terminal types
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: EVLN(DaimlerChrysler stops Chinese knock offs)
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) SOFC CHP
by "Martin K" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) RE: Changing Output Voltage on Zivan NG3 Battery Chargers
by Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: SOFC CHP
by Martin K <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: large NIMH available?
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: SOFC CHP
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: EVLN(DaimlerChrysler stops Chinese knock offs)
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: large NIMH available?
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: EVLN(DaimlerChrysler stops Chinese knock offs)
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: SOFC CHP
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: SOFC CHP
by Martin K <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: large NIMH available?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: large NIMH available?
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: Flooded vs. Dry cell nicads
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: Video is on YouTube 
by DM3 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---

Mike Harvey wrote:
> So it sounds like you removed the flag and bolted these directly to
> the stud. Is that correct?  Because I have an existing pack with what
> USB describes on their site as the UTL. Can I retrofit these 22206 by
> removing the UTL posts? Or am I stuck with these posts until they die.

Without dimensions, my guess is that the UTL is too low to get a good 
high current connection with an automotive post type terminal like the 
22206. It would work, but probaby not for sustained currents over 100 amps.


Any good battery shop can cast new terminals onto your batteries for a 
nominal fee. Done right, they won't break the seal and are as good as if 
they came from the factory that way.

--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in--Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

Hi Evan,

Yeah, I did wonder about these cells myself as I saw them about 10  
months back. I was wondering about getting some to test but haven't  
yet got around to it. Not at £72 a pop anyway!


Nikki.




DC [EMAIL 
PROTECTED])¢Ë\¢{ZŠ{~ŠÛ‰×^žg¬±¨~ŠæjÛ.r¬jv­µ§!y×â•æ¯qªÝ3~ŠæjÛbžâ²Û¶Èì¹çn¢yriǦÓ˃StÈ*.®š,¶)à±Ø¬¦V²¶¬™ë,j²¢êæj)i®ˆ+jh¬ž‹lzÛh±éÝ<°51LãKa©Ýç±§cºËbžMessage-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 18:13:08 +
From: "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: large NIMH available?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hi Nikki,
  Fair point. 20% off if you buy 10 though :)   Actually the price is
probably substantially lower than that if you order in quantity from
the factory - for example if you were setting up as an EV manufacturer
(hint, hint, Jerry et al!).  But yes, test first..

While I remember, on the city-el battery subject, the contact can be
found on this website:
http://www.reapsystems.co.uk/

Regards
Evan

On 11/16/06, nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Evan,
>
> Yeah, I did wonder about these cells myself as I saw them about 10
> months back. I was wondering about getting some to test but haven't
> yet got around to it. Not at £72 a pop anyway!
>
> Nikki.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> * ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED---*
> * This post contains a forbidden message format   *
> *  (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting)  *
> *   Lists at  sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT *
> * If your postings display this message your mail program *
> * is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting  *
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>
> 
>
>
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Mike Harvey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Subject: Re: Lead acid terminal types
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 13:29:41 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
format=flowed;
charset="iso-8859-1";

EV digest 6142

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6142

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) US 8V-GC or Trojan T-875
by Mike Sandman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) RE: SOFC CHP
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: SOFC CHP
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: large NIMH available?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: large NIMH available?
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) RE: SOFC CHP
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) RE: large NIMH available?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) RE: Rechargable alkalines?
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) solectria bc 3300 charger repair
by "mike young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: solectria bc 3300 charger repair
by "chestnutforge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: US 8V-GC or Trojan T-875
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) another solectria on ebay
by "mike young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) RE: [BULK]  Re: Flooded vs. Dry cell nicads
by "Lawrence Lile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: solectria bc 3300 charger repair
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Circuit board protection
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) RE: Circuit board protection
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) RE: solectria bc 3300 charger repair
by "Will Beckett \(becketts\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: US 8V-GC or Trojan T-875
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: SOFC CHP
by Martin Klingensmith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: solectria bc 3300 charger repair
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: US 8V-GC or Trojan T-875
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 22) Re: Circuit board protection
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) RE: Solectria bc 3300 charger repair
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: Circuit board protection
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: solectria bc 3300 charger repair
by "mike young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) VW Rabbit Transmission
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) Re: VW Rabbit Transmission
by "Mike Harvey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 28) Re: Amish- Electrik
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Begin Message ---

howdy,

time to start pricing batteries.  i was hoping some folks could 
compare/contrast these two batteries in regard to:


* overall quality
* price
* life
* company service or reputation

...and so on.  is there much of a difference?  should i just go for price?

if it helps, this is for a 1999 Beetle (like Don's but DC) with 120v 
system powering a ADC 9"...it's basically kit #5 from KTA.


my "intended" usage goes something like this:

* Commute to work
  o 30 mile round trip
  o 20 miles is Freeway (55 MPH)
* Recreational use
  o 10 miles neighborhood drive. (grocery store, go to movies)
  o 50% Freeway
* Terrain
  o all flat (Columbus, OH)
* Weather
  o Want to drive it (almost) all year round.
  o Operating temp would be mostly 25 - 90 degrees F.

should be no problem, right?

:)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Apparently in Europe (mainly in UK) and in Japan
there are large installed bases - several 10,000 units.

There are a few US suppliers, mainly in the Eastern half.

One very affordable 1kW cogen unit production run was sold out
so quickly that they won;t have units until 2007.

Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_waterIM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel:   +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax:   +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks   eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further  http://www.proxim.com


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of David Roden
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 3:15 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: SOFC CHP


On 16 Nov 2006 at 20:12, Martin K wrote:

>  It appears to be unavailable but it claims efficiency of 80-90%

I've been reading about this cogeneration fuel cell for years.  It's a fine 
idea, I guess; but it's never been available, and I'm tempted to wonder if 
it ever will be.  Not much use for EVers, I'm afraid.


David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator

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To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

Ah ok here's the Wikipedia entry for it:
http://en.wikipedia.o

EV digest 6143

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6143

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) RE: Rechargable alkalines?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) 8V to 12V conversion? Battery inside after bandsaw.
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: VW Rabbit Transmission
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Eliminate Reversing Contactors
by "Edward Ang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Eliminate Reversing Contactors
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: US 8V-GC or Trojan T-875
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: solectria bc 3300 charger repair
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Patent revocation for public good
by Geopilot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: C02 per mile
by Geopilot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: C02 per mile
by Geopilot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: US 8V-GC or Trojan T-875
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 12) Re: VW Rabbit Transmission
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Patent revocation for public good
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 14) Re: Eliminate Reversing Contactors
by "Edward Ang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: VW Rabbit Transmission
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Fox News at Chip's House This Monday
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Suspension/Spring Supplier
by "martin emde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: Patent revocation for public good
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Patent revocation for public good
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: Suspension/Spring Supplier
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Eliminate Reversing Contactors
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) RE: Suspension/Spring Supplier
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I am a cheapskate enough to have an AA battery holder
hooked to my lab power supply and drop in a non-rechargeable (cough)
battery to give it 100mA 1.5V for a few hours, then let it run the
clock (where it came from) for another half year.
My motivation is mainly to reduce the amount of waste.
When I run out of batteries (due to me not buying one-way
batteries - most are rechargeable type anyway) then I
may grab a few Alkalines from the battery waste box 
at work to recycle by careful recharging.
No EV-size application though ;-)

Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_waterIM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel:   +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax:   +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks   eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further  http://www.proxim.com


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Mark Fowler
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 1:49 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Rechargable alkalines?


Hi GW,

I have a charger that will recharge standard alkaline AA cells.
(Rezap battery doctor)
http://www.rezap.com.au/rezapbd1.htm

Anyway, alkaline batteries do not recharge particularly well.
The site claims you can recharge them up to 15 times (compared to 1000
for proper rechargeables) but that is only if you don't let them fully
discharge in the first place.

How would this work in an EV context?

It wouldn't.

I don't think anyone wants to replace their battery pack after 15
charges.

Alk batts hold charge longer, provide less current, voltage sags more
under load, can't be quickly recharged when compared to rechargeable
chemistries.

Mark


> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of GWMobile
> Sent: Thursday, 16 November 2006 3:33 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Rechargable alkalines?
> 
> 
> There are home consumer bsttery rechargers out there that 
> through strong 
> oversight of voltages etc can actually recharge non rechargeable 
> batteries for electronic devices.
> What is the potential for using such chargers in souped up 
> form for an 
> electric car using alkaline batteries? What are the tradeoffs?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I received some pictures of battery internals from my
battery supplier.
(Universal Power Group, selling the Universal Batteries)

This can help people who want to convert an 8V (Ford Ranger EV)
to 12V and want to use Lee's recommendation to tap a screw
into the inter-connect between cells to hook the BMS up
to blocks of 8V (the main drive current still goes through
the normal battery interconnects, this just allows the BMS
to still work and balance blocks of 4 cells!)

Warning:
if you do this, make sure you re-seal around the screws,
as you could cause a path for electrolyte to leak out.
It should not, but better safe then sorry.

Also, use short screws and use caution when drilling in
a battery - if you do not prevent the drill from entering
the battery, you could 

EV digest 6144

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

ne know of a company/supplier for enhanced performance (stiffer)
> springs.  I remember seeing a name on the list a few months back.  I'm
> converting a 1988 Toyota Corola.  You can email me off list.
> Thanks.
> Martin
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
 
In a message dated 11/17/2006 1:48:21 PM Mountain Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Big  money for 
a  few corporations as well as federal and state  government. Things that are 
bad  for you can be overlooked if the  government gets its share. States that 
did not  allow gambling now  have the government advertising it to keep sales 
up. 

This is not a  political statement just a reality check.  



As Lilli Tomlin once said: "No matter how cynical you are, you can't keep  
up!"  

Matt  Parkhouse
Colorado Springs, CO
BMW m/c-Golf Cart trike - 48 volts, 30mph  on the flat, 35 mile range
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

Couple of SITES to check out for weights and measures:

http://electricmotorcycles.net/modules/wordpress/
http://www.killacycle.com/

Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:

EV Digest 6138

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Dual outlet opportunity charging;-30F
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Water heaters
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Lead acid terminal types
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Water heaters
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: go kart ideas and parts sources
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: KillaCycle Team, Back from Las Vegas
by Mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Optima & Orbital Dimensions
by Jeremy Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) 12-3pm Biodiesel Workshop and Alt Fuel Car Show 
	by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

  9) Re: Water heaters- and production EV ceramics
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) RE: Water heaters
by Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Water heaters
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: EVLN(DaimlerChrysler stops Chinese knock offs)
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: China Knock-offs (Re: "Strange EV on eBay" round 2)
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) RE: China Knock-offs (Re: "Strange EV on eBay" round 2)
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) RE: EVLN(DaimlerChrysler stops Chinese knock offs)
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Lead acid terminal types
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) RE: Parallel packs.
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: Video is on YouTube (was: KillaCycle Team, Back from Las Vegas)
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Video is on YouTube (was: KillaCycle Team, Back from Las Vegas)
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: Dual outlet opportunity charging;-30F
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Dual outlet opportunity charging;-30F
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: KillaCycle Team, Back from Las Vegas
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 23) micro-CHP another way to charge?
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) RE: Dual outlet opportunity charging;-30F
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>




Subject:
Re: Dual outlet opportunity charging;-30F
From:
Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:
Wed, 15 Nov 2006 11:01:22 -0600
To:
ev@listproc.sjsu.edu


Paul G. wrote:


There are 3 ways to protect from ground path shocks...
For public charging PLEASE use any TWO...
Isolation, chassis grounding, and ground fault circuit protection.



Roger Stockton wrote:


I agree with your summary... but David is correct in emphasizing
isolation... *No* production EV/NEV uses a non-isolated charger,
and many with isolated chargers back that up with GFCI protection.
If OEMs could get away with a cheaper non-isolated charger, they would.



I agree with Paul and Roger on having at least two ways to protect 
against ground paths. Things go wrong; redundancy is good!


But I will point out that the vast majority of AC powered products are 
not isolated. Manufacturers (with goading from lawyers, government, the 
various safety agencies) have worked out methods of construction that 
insure safety even without isolation transformers.


Safety without isolation is commonly achieved with double insulation. 
The product is made with no exposed metal, or with all exposed metal 
grounded. All parts inside (*all* parts!) are mounted and insulated in 
such a way that it is impossible for the user to touch them whenever 
these parts might be "live".

EV digest 6145

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6145

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Batteries
by "brougham Baker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Patent revocation for public good
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Patent revocation for public good
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Patent revocation for public good
by Ben Apollonio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Patent revocation for public good
by Ben Apollonio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) RE: Eliminate Reversing Contactors
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Patent revocation for public good
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Suspension/Spring Supplier
by "martin emde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Patent revocation for public good
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: Why do they Bother?  WAS(DaimlerChrysler stops Chinese knock offs)
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: solectria bc 3300 charger repair
by "Joseph H. Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Eliminate Reversing Contactors
by "Edward Ang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Patent revocation for public good
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) GE LXT Meter
by Peter Eckhoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Patent revocation for public good
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: VW Rabbit Transmission
by "Dave Wilker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Patent revocation for public good
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: Eliminate Reversing Contactors
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Patent revocation for public good
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: Batteries
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
From: "Brandon Kruger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Here's a chart I made comparing sever different batteries.  Hope you
> can find something to your liking.
> http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=p5Q1FF4gnxsiKy0y_uGEbIA

That looks like it will be very useful for a noob like me. The only thing I
found lacking is the battery technology used, for example- what is a Concord
12105.00? Is this an AGM?

Brougham
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---


The patent is about "large format" NiMH.  Such "large format" is not 
neccessary to power an EV.  The small A123 cells in the Tesla.

The Honda Insight uses small NiMH D-cells.

Saying NiMH can't be used for EV's is going too far, and is just fueling 
more conspiracy theory and excuses not to build EVs.


Jack


David Roden wrote:

On 17 Nov 2006 at 12:10, Geopilot wrote:


What do people think about the idea that patent law should be modified 
so that patents can not only be revoked if issued in error ...



I think the subject is too general for the EV list.  

I think I know what you're trying to do here - it has to do with NiMH 
batteries - and I think it's counterproductive.  It will lead to a thread 
which will be nothing but a gripe session.


Folks, there's nothing we can do to fix the NiMH restrictions. The situation 
is what it is.  Alternatives are emerging even as we speak, and the problem 
will resolve itself.  Unless the restrictions are relaxed, NiMH for EVs will 
simply not be a factor in the EV market, and Cobasys will miss out on the 
revenue from that segment.  That's exactly what they deserve.


We can't have NiMH.  It's regrettable, but let's leave it at that.  Let's 
move on and build outstanding EVs with batteries we >can< get our hands on, 
instead of wringing those hands over batteries that are denied to us by 
foolhardy, short-sighted, backward-looking corporate executives and 
attorneys.



David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode?  See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.  
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from

the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
But paralleling a lot of small cells creates serious balance concerns.  
This does create issues that will affect the practicality and overall 
reliability and there are no magical solutions that are really practical 
for a hobbyist while effectively guaranteeing that you will get them all 
fully charged without a substantial overcharge, and no cell reversal.


Danny

Jack Murray wrote:



The patent is about "large format" NiMH.  Such "large format" is not 
neccessary to power an EV.  The small A123 cells in the Tesla.

The Honda Insight uses small NiMH D-cells.

Saying NiMH can't be used for EV's is going too far, and is just 
fueling more conspiracy theory and excuses not to build EVs.


Jack


Dav

EV digest 6146

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

.6 AH22.2 Amps Current
 7:51:17 PM End Constant Volt   Pack Volt 189.5 (14.58 Volts 
per batt.)  0 AH 2.1 Amps Current
 7:51:20 PM First Pulse Pack Volt 191.5 (14.73 Volts 
per batt.)  0 AH 2.4 Amps Current
11:27:04 PM Highest Voltage Pack Volt 203.0 (15.62 Volts 
per batt.)   2.4 AH -0.1 Amps Current
11:49:16 PM Last Pulse  Pack Volt 201.5 (15.50 Volts 
per batt.)   2.5 AH  1.3 Amps Current
11:49:17 PM Charger Shuts Off   Pack Volt 199.5 (15.35 Volts 
per batt.)   2.5 AH -0.1 Amps Current
12:49:17 AM Charger Off 1 hour  Pack Volt 168.0 (12.92 Volts 
per batt.)   2.4 AH -0.1 Amps Current
12:59:52 AM Meter Reset AH  Pack Volt 168.0 (12.92 Volts 
per batt.)  0 AH-0.1 Amps Current
 1:49:17 AM Charger Off 2 hours Pack Volt 166.0 (12.77 Volts 
per batt.) -  0.1 AH-0.1 Amps Current
 2:49:17 AM Charger Off 3 hours Pack Volt 166.0 (12.77 Volts 
per batt.) -  0.2 AH-0.1 Amps Current
 3:49:17 AM Charger Off 4 hours Pack Volt 166.0 (12.77 Volts 
per batt.) -  0.3 AH-0.1 Amps Current
 4:49:17 AM Charger Off 5 hours Pack Volt 165.5 (12.73 Volts 
per batt.) -  0.4 AH   0 Amps Current
 5:49:17 AM Charger Off 6 hours Pack Volt 165.0 (12.69 Volts 
per batt.) -  0.5 AH-0.1 Amps Current
 6:49:17 AM Charger Off 7 hours Pack Volt 165.5 (12.73 Volts 
per batt.) -  0.6 AH-0.1 Amps Current
 7:49:17 AM Charger Off 8 hours Pack Volt 165.5 (12.73 Volts 
per batt.) -  0.7 AH-0.1 Amps Current
 8:49:17 AM Charger Off 9 hours Pack Volt 165.0 (12.69 Volts 
per batt.) -  0.7 AH-0.1 Amps Current
 9:49:17 AM Charger Off 10 hoursPack Volt 165.0 (12.69 Volts 
per batt.) -  0.8 AH-0.1 Amps Current
10:49:17 AM Charger Off 11 hoursPack Volt 165.0 (12.69 Volts 
per batt.) -  0.9 AH-0.1 Amps Current
11:49:17 AM Charger Off 12 hoursPack Volt 164.5 (12.65 Volts 
per batt.) -  1.0 AH-0.1 Amps Current


I then pulled up a file from September and found virtually identical 
results.  I also check the September data on the 120 VAC modified 
"Fair Radio" charger and found it tapered to .5 Amps at 194 Volts, 
and 1 hour after shut off the voltage had dropped to 170.5 
Volts.  After 6 hours it was down to 165.0 Volts.  After 12 hours it 
was 164.5 Volts and after 24 hours it was 164 Volts.


So, can anyone tell me what they see in this?  Does this look like 
chronic under charging?  Is my constant on DC/DC and the load from 
driving the laptop for data logging distorting the results?


What am I doing wrong?

Thanks,



Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html

In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme 
position. (Horace) 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

Steven Lough wrote:
Thought I have combed through the last few days of EVDL posts quite 
carefully.. But


NO ANSWER as to what the sparks were.BILL ??  Can you tell us. ??

Im speaking of the video on YouTube, of your record runs last week..
And as the bike goes up the exit run,,   there is a shower of sparks.

Two folks have asked...  if you know what they were caused byCould 
you let us know.?

(maybe it is a secret weapon... a Plasma JET gone bad ? )
It's been answered several times here on the list.  Short version is 
some debris on the strip got up into the motor and caused a partial 
fireball.


--
73
-
Jim Walls - K6CCC
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Ofc:  818-548-4804
http://home.earthlink.net/~k6ccc
AMSAT Member 32537 - WSWSS Member 395
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

On 11/18/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

HI-
I know it's fun for computer jockeys to dream up complex systems to reverse
a
series motor,


Indeed

I did exactly that on some napkins over lunch a few weeks ago. The
conclusion was that a silicon based reversing motor controller with
regen for series motor will be about as complex and expensive as a
3phase controller and wouldn't be nearly as good.

The simplicity of the basic series motor chopper controller is what
makes it so useful, if you want to get fancy; go 3phase.


- Peter the computer jockey
--
www.electric-lemon.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
several posts mentioned that bolts were found on the track and that one must 
have been picked up by the tire and thrown through the back motor and exited 
in a different state of matter :op



- Original Message - 
From: "Steven Lough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List 

EV digest 6147

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6147

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Why NIMH?  Re: Patent revocation for public good
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Circuit board protection
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Why NIMH?  Re: Patent revocation for public good
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) RE: Simple Isolation Question
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: solectria bc 3300 charger repair
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) RE: Water heaters
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: GE LXT Meter
by Peter Eckhoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) RE: Simple Isolation Question
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Transmission vs no transmission
by Tim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: Why NIMH?  Re: Patent revocation for public good
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) ACRX damage
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) RE: Simple Isolation Question
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Why NIMH?  Re: Patent revocation for public good
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Patent revocation for public good
by "Edward Ang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) unsubscribe
by "Paul Francis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Why NIMH?  Re: Patent revocation for public good
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) RE: Simple Isolation Question
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Ultracapacitors: Is 1,500 Volts enough?
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Why NIMH?  Re: Patent revocation for public good
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) RE: Simple Isolation Question
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---

Jerry, which Lithium batteries are you using for your car?

jerryd wrote:

Hi Lee and All,
  Good points Lee. But I wonder why we
should care about NiMH batts as they never will be a useful
EV battery!!
  Why is they are too expensive from their
material costs which won't change, they are barely better
than Ni-cads!! Nicads are almost as good and cost 1/4 NiMH
price!
  Any batt with a cell voltage of 1.2vdc
which requires many more cells added to it's needed high
materials, BMS prices mean NiMH will never be practical
compared to Li-ions, ect batts with a 3.7vpc and many times
less expensive materials. The higher cell voltage of 2.12vpc
is why Lead batts are still the leader in batts.
  I seem to remember Texaco/Chevron put
their NiMH batts up for sale as they still are I think but
no one bought any because of their nessasarily rediculessly
high prices. Any of you EVer's want to buy any at those
prices?  I won't.
  We should concentrate on getting better
Li-ion, Li-poly, ect batteries which have many times more
promise to cost effectively power EV's.
Jerry Dycus


- Original Message Follows -
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Patent revocation for public good
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 22:02:19 -0600



[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


What do people think about the idea that patent law
should be modified  so that patents can not only be
revoked if issued in error or if prior  invention was
proved but also if the patent is being used by a


competitive player solely to ensure the technology is NOT


developed or deployed.


This is already a part of patent law, although it is
awkward and  difficult to do in practice.

If you have a patent, and someone violates your patent,
your legal  remedy is to sue them for damages. It's not
uncommon for a court to  award you treble damages if you
can show that the violation was deliberate.

But... if you have been doing NOTHING with the patent
except sitting on  it, you will have a difficult time
convincing a judge that you have  suffered any damages.
Therefore, you might win the case... but be  awarded $1 as
compensation. The patent infringer has to cease using the 
patented idea; but he gets to keep all his profits up to

that point.

At least, that's how it worked in the past. But nowdays,
you will hire  sharp lawyers to argue that you were
spending a fortune on R&D to  develop the patent, or were
engaged in expensive negotiations to sell or  license the
patent to someone; and thanks to the infringer, all your 
precious money is lost. You can invent millions of dollars

of "losses"  for these efforts, even though you never
produced anything.

--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in--Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
leeahart_at_earthlink.net





--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

Phil Marino wrote:
Is it a good idea to somehow protect any circuit boards which are 
underhood (or in-dash)?


The automotive environment is a very dif

EV digest 6148

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6148

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Was: Patent revocation, Now: Myers Motors Qui Moto
by Jay Snable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Parallel Nimh is Here NOW
by "Edward Ang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Parallel Nimh is Here NOW
by Bill & Nancy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: EV digest 6147
by Mike Swift <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Parallel Nimh is Here NOW
by "Edward Ang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Was: Patent revocation, Now: Myers Motors Qui Moto
by "Edward Ang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Batteries
by Mike Sandman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Batteries
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Parallel Nimh is Here NOW
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) RE: Eliminate Reversing Contactors
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Parallel Nimh is Here NOW
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: ACRX damage
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: US 8V-GC or Trojan T-875
by Mike Sandman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Transmission vs no transmission
by "Ev Performance (Robert Chew)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Transmission vs no transmission
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) RE: Simple Isolation Question
by Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Simple Isolation Question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: Simple Isolation Question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Why NIMH?  Re: Patent revocation for public good
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) RE: Eliminate Reversing Contactors
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Simple Isolation Question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Test... Test... Test
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 23) Re: ACRX damage
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: Why NIMH?  Re: Patent revocation for public good
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 25) Re: Parallel Nimh is Here NOW- Misinformation?
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) RE: Simple Isolation Question
by "Chet Neeley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) Re: Patent revocation, Now: Myers Motors Qui Moto
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---

Hi Ed,

Your post led me to revisit the AIR Lab site, then Myers. What the  
heck is the Qui Moto?! I knew they were working on a next generation  
but I haven't seen any mention until I stumbled upon this:


http://www.myersmotors.com/Poster4.htm

Jay

On Nov 18, 2006, at 4:41 PM, Edward Ang wrote:


On 11/17/06, Ben Apollonio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


So, no, NiMH can't be used for EV's.  Period.


I had to jump in now.  Are you saying our Nimh powered Sparrow that
has been running since Jan is not real?  Many on this list have seen
it in person.  We now have 3 Nimh powered Sparrows on the road.

See www.airlabcorp.com for details.

Yes, you cannot parallel Nimh cells without a management system.  But,
wait, we have a mangement system!

--
Edward Ang
President
AIR Lab Corp

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

I just want to clarify the mis-infomation circling in the recent posts
here.  We have designed and tested management system for using Nimh
cells in parallel.  It works and it is currently being used on the
road everyday.  It is called the GAIA I.

See www.airlabcorp.com for details.

You CANNOT use Nimh cells in parallel without a management system.
AND, WE HAVE DEVELOPED SUCH A SYSTEM.  SO, STOP SAYING IT IS NOT
POSSIBLE TO USE SMALL NIMH CELLS IN EV'S UNTIL YOU HAVE DONE YOUR
HOMEWORK!

--
Edward Ang
President
AIR Lab Corp
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How much would a system at 120 volts for a vw sized vehicle cost 
including bateries and is it available today?

How long will a pack like this last?
Bill

Edward Ang wrote:


I just want to clarify the mis-infomation circling in the recent posts
here.  We have designed and tested management system for using Nimh
cells in parallel.  It works and it is currently being used on the
road everyday.  It is called the GAIA I.

See www.airlabcorp.com for details.

You CANNOT use Nimh cells in parallel without a management system.
AND, WE HAVE DEVELOPED SUCH A SYSTEM.  SO, STOP SAYING IT IS NOT
POSSIBLE TO USE SMALL NIMH CELLS IN EV'S UNTIL YOU HAVE DONE YOUR
HOMEWORK!

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think that if you look at their web site that while these ultra- 
capacitors can supply very high power densities the energy density is  
only 3.2 Wh/kg.  A posable drag car battery, but not viable for any  
range.  Another thing about ultra-capacitors is for energy storage  
they make Li-

EV digest 6149

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

reversed.  In this way, you are operating this reversing 
contactor not under load. 

  Roland 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

The near-total darkness made it look a LOT more spectacular than it really was.

There is no direct path from the tire to the motor. The bolt (or nut) 
zigged, zagged, and bounced past the edge of the fender, under the 
plasma shield, along the top of the motor, and slipped into the brush 
rigging. There is no direct path, so we didn't even realize it was 
possible until it actually happened. (We will definitely correct this 
for the next race.)


I think the "firefly" you see is a hot blob of something that the 
rear tire picked up from the track and tossed into the air. Again, 
there is no direct path in that trajectory from the motors.


The motor commutators are shielded on all sides, as per NHRA and 
NEDRA requirements. The bike has passed tech inspection countless 
times without a problem because it is 100% compliant with the rules.


Bill Dube'

At 10:30 AM 11/18/2006, you wrote:
several posts mentioned that bolts were found on the track and that 
one must have been picked up by the tire and thrown through the back 
motor and exited in a different state of matter :op



- Original Message - From: "Steven Lough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List RCVR" 
Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 11:09 AM
Subject: KillaCycle - SPARKS - at end of Video


Thought I have combed through the last few days of EVDL posts quite 
carefully.. But


NO ANSWER as to what the sparks were.BILL ??  Can you tell us. ??

Im speaking of the video on YouTube, of your record runs last week..
And as the bike goes up the exit run,,   there is a shower of sparks.

Two folks have asked...  if you know what they were caused 
byCould you let us know.?

(maybe it is a secret weapon... a Plasma JET gone bad ? )
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle,  WA  98115-7230
Day:  206 850-8535
Eve:  206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org


--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

Cor van de Water wrote:
Lee, 


I like it - a simple DPDT switch, the only issue would be
when someone would throw it at load/speed.


It would be straightforward to have a solenoid that is activated to lock 
the switch in position when the throttle is depressed. I'll bet you 
could even have a solenoid with a 1-turn coil that is in series with the 
motor, so motor current itself pulls in the solenoid.



the fact that 4 contactors are used is because there is no "systems"
approach... the controller manufacturer is optimizing the controller
by itself, which is sub-optimal for almost all applications...


Yes, I agree. Some controllers come with all the necessary contactors, 
prechargers, etc. But too many buyers want 'cheap'; and won't buy them. 
Curtis has the biggest share of the market because they make their 
controllers as cheaply as possible, by leaving out anything not 
absolutely necessary. Of course, it costs more when you have to add 
these features back in yourself; but many people don't think that far 
ahead. :-)


Would he look at the non-transmission EVs as a system, the 
controller would have a bridge output and reverse by its

electronics, or at least have a push-pull (for example all
MOSFETs instead of switch and diode) output, which would
reduce the nr of contactors from 4 to 2, which can then
be replaced by one single pole that switches the other
motor contact between +batt and -batt.


Well, a series motor is the cheapest. With this type of motor, even a 
full bridge can't reverse it. You need a DPDT switch to reverse the 
field, *and* a separate PWM to throttle the armature. That's 5 
switches/transistors as a minimum.


Despite their apparent cost, a contactor is cheaper than a transistor 
once you include all the necessary heatsinks, cooling, and drive 
electronics.


And a mechanical switch is cheaper than a contactor.


The contactor for the heater is unnecessary if a simple
PWM control is used, which can be much cheaper than the
contactor.


You might think so... but it doesn't work out in practice.


BTW: if I were to design a controller, I would be very
tempted to integrate a simple extra PWM output for a heater
as that costs only a single extra MOSFET and one pin on the
microcontroller.


You could, but I wouldn't. The heater is an unrelated function.


I would also integrate the pre-charge and main contactor
functionalty by some additional MOSFETs that are current
limited for the precharge, then full-on.


This is a good idea. Precharge should really be part of the controller.


When the throttle is released (or whenever the contactor control
is dropped) you fire a TRIAC across the motor outputs to short them.


If you short a spinning series motor, you get a series GENERATOR! It 
will generates its 

EV digest 6150

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

; >
> > My hat's off to folks like Rich, Otmar, and
> Victor.  They're building, selling,
> > and supporting EV parts at prices that are tough
> to sustain.  We'll be lucky if
> > they don't burn out doing this.  I don't think
> they get enough recognition for
> > what they do.
> >
> > And they are a rarity.  Most people understandably
> want to make a good
> > living without having to spend, effectively, 24
> hours a day on the job.  How
> > about you?
> >
> > Many of the parts we use in our EVs were designed
> for other purposes -
> > forklifts, industrial vehicles, boats, and even
> various ICEs.  Their relatively low
> > cost is made possible by - you guessed it - mass
> production.  EV hobbyists
> > are NOT a mass market, but some of the above
> markets are (relatively
> > speaking).  We get to ride along.
> >
> > When some industrial vehicle manufacturer, golf
> car builder, or even an
> > automaker contracts with Edward's company to buy a
> quantity of his NiMH
> > modules, then we'll have an in.  We'll eventually
> be able to buy them from
> > that user or automaker as spares.  Who knows, a
> few years down the road
> > they may even be available at Autozone as
> remanufactured parts.
> >
> > I don't speak for Edward, but my guess is that if
> you want them before then,
> > all you have to do is find a way to make it worth
> his while financially to build
> > them for you.
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Edward Ang
> President
> AIR Lab Corp
>
>





Sponsored Link

Mortgage rates near 39yr lows.
$510k for $1,698/mo. Calculate new payment!
www.LowerMyBills.com/lre





--
Edward Ang
President
AIR Lab Corp
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

This raising an interesting point.
How prone to picking up street metal are electric vehicles?
Do the motor magnets pick up any metal within a certain number of 
inches?


On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 10:22 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The near-total darkness made it look a LOT more spectacular than it 
really was.


There is no direct path from the tire to the motor. The bolt (or nut) 
zigged, zagged, and bounced past the edge of the fender, under the 
plasma shield, along the top of the motor, and slipped into the brush 
rigging. There is no direct path, so we didn't even realize it was 
possible until it actually happened. (We will definitely correct this 
for the next race.)


I think the "firefly" you see is a hot blob of something that the rear 
tire picked up from the track and tossed into the air. Again, there is 
no direct path in that trajectory from the motors.


The motor commutators are shielded on all sides, as per NHRA and NEDRA 
requirements. The bike has passed tech inspection countless times 
without a problem because it is 100% compliant with the rules.


Bill Dube'

At 10:30 AM 11/18/2006, you wrote:
several posts mentioned that bolts were found on the track and that 
one must have been picked up by the tire and thrown through the back 
motor and exited in a different state of matter :op



- Original Message - From: "Steven Lough" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List RCVR" 
Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 11:09 AM
Subject: KillaCycle - SPARKS - at end of Video


Thought I have combed through the last few days of EVDL posts quite 
carefully.. But


NO ANSWER as to what the sparks were.BILL ??  Can you tell us. ??

Im speaking of the video on YouTube, of your record runs last week..
And as the bike goes up the exit run,,   there is a shower of sparks.

Two folks have asked...  if you know what they were caused 
byCould you let us know.?

(maybe it is a secret weapon... a Plasma JET gone bad ? )
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle,  WA  98115-7230
Day:  206 850-8535
Eve:  206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org




www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming 
and the melting poles.


www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

Thanks to all replied on and off list!

Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cor van de Water wrote: 

> OK, how about having a series cntroller that
> has 3 or 4 motor outputs and drives the field
> separately, much like the SepEx?

Sure; all you need is to have the controller offer connections to each
of the motor's 4 terminals, how the controller manipulates them is up to
you.

Myself, I would put a beefed up GC reversing contactor inside the
controller use that to reverse the field connections in response to a
FWD/

EV digest 6155

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6155

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: New Thunder-Sky Lithium Ion Battery 30Ah - 800Ah
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Alternator hacks, WAS: Parallel Nimh is Here NOW- Misinformation? 
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  3) Re: Fox Interview part of EDTA Conference
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) RE: New Thunder-Sky Lithium Ion Battery 30Ah - 800Ah
by "Obrien, Haskell W." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Parallel Nimh is Here NOW- Misinformation?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  6) Re: degree of slope
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Your next ev will fusion electric TEEN GOES NUCLEAR: He creates fusion in 
his Oakland Township home
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Alternator hacks, WAS: Parallel Nimh is Here NOW- Misinformation?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: New Thunder-Sky Lithium Ion Battery 30Ah - 800Ah
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Generator alternator welder plans
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 11) Battery questions
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Newbie question about batteries
by "John H" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Parallel Nimh is Here NOW- Misinformation?
by Matthew Milliron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Polarity on compound motor?
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) early-style strut bearings for Rabbit
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Polarity on compound motor?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: early-style strut bearings for Rabbit
by "Mike Harvey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Michaela's requests (was RE: Parallel Nimh is Here NOW- Misinformation?)
by "Claudio Natoli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Newbie question about batteries
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: New Thunder-Sky Lithium Ion Battery 30Ah - 800Ah
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) How to make a check valve
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: Polarity on compound motor?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---

On 11/21/06, Obrien, Haskell W. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Those are very interesting - for my motorcycle I keep looking at KwH/lb
ratios - That's probably the first reasonable price for a LiIon batt
I've seen.

10 of the cheapest cells @$60/ea would yield a 36v 300kwh pack weighing
only 35lbs.



Erm, actually that would be a 32V nominal pack of 0.96kWh...
You got the weight right though.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 09:19:22 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Parallel Nimh  is Here NOW- Misinformation?
From: "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) >
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu) 
MIME-Version:  1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding:  8bit
 
Michaela wrote
 
Would it really be a problem to built a regen unit that slides on to  the
auxiliary shaft of an advanced DC motor? Or a (small)  motor/compressor
combination to power an a/c ? Or a DC-DC unit that imitates  the function
of an ICE alternator and not only provides > 30 A of 12 V but  also charges
the battery?
 
Michaela
 
>>
 
Hi Michaela you've raised a relevant point for me because I'm at the stage  
of thinking about adding regen to my series motor. The controller is going to 
be  simple home-built PWM, which I know won't have regen facilities. My B+, 
battery  voltage, will be between 48V-72V,and to power my ancilliaries I will 
be  
making a B+ to 12V dc-dc convertor. This will be a high efficiency design.
 
One plan I have is to take some of this convertor output at 12volts and use  
it to energise the armature of an alternator. 
Some car alternators can produce upto 110volts once you remove the  
regulator. of course, current drops off too, but it's no big issue for me to  
find a 
12V/180Amp alternator for £50 here. At 48V thats 45 Amps give or  take.
 
So instead of using regen via the main motor I plan to power the  
alternator(s) from a belt drive attached at the main drive transfer pulley and  
energise 
the armature when I want regen braking. I say alternators in the plural  
sense, because 2 or 3 in parallel are, although wasteful of space, capable of  
producing over 120Amps of recharge current and braking effort. There are some  
alternators, like the AC203, which are capable of producing 300Amps on their  
own
The beauty of this system is that there would be next to no drive drag when  
under power but just as importantly many alternators we see over here in the 
UK  also have a vacuum pump attached to them to act as a brake servo vacuum  
pump, so fitting a combined alternator/pump ought to kill two birds at  once.
 
I have a great document which details building your own generator from a  car 
alternator and a stationary petrol engine, which covers t

EV digest 6156

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

$16
The cost per killowatt for the LFP cell is $208
So clearly the  optima is wastly superior when it comes to power, which
also illustrates  that the comparison is a bit unfair to the Optima.

This is ofcourse not  a complete comparison and we all know what they
say about liars, damn liars  and battery vendors. I think Chinese
battery vendors is one step  worse.


-- 
www.electric-lemon.com


 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

  - Original Message - 
  From: Jim Husted<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu> 
  Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 9:15 PM
  Subject: Rotation, brushwear and motor preferences, was Polarity on compound 
motor?



  Hello Jim, 

  When I V grooved, all I did was took take off the top of the U a little bit.  
The top edges of the segments were so sharp that it can cut your fingers. 

  I kept the Warp 9 at or under 200 motor amps all the time while I had the 
motor in.  Could  do 36 mph in 2ne gear that had a overall ratio of 13.925:1.  
If I shifted to 3rd the ampere would shoot up to 300 amps if I accelerated to 
45 mph which was the max speed inside the city anyway.  It would then level off 
back to 200 amps while maintaining a steady speed. 

  It seem to not to make any difference if I was in 1st gear at a ratio of 19.5 
at 25 mph or 2nd gear at 36 mph or 3rd gear at 5.57, the motor ampere was the 
same. 

  The GE motor in 3rd gear at 60 mph is reading 180 motor amps, because 
according to GE, it develops more torque at a lower ampere at a lower rpm 
compare to a smaller motor. The motor rpm at 60 mph is about 4000 rpm. 

  The maximum speed in 5.57:1 final ratio is 92 mph at 6000 rpm which was done 
once with 300 ah battery pack.  This was done during a endurance run of 1056 
miles in 24 hours, which the speed was kept at 50 to 60 mph averaging 44 mph. 

  The original brushes ran from 1976 to 2000, which the rear brushes was about 
1/2 worn while the front brushes was at 3/4 inch length.  I bought two spare 
sets of GE brushes back in 1985 that cost $495.00.   Two sets of Warp 9 brushes 
cost $344.00.  Both of these brushes are silver graphite, but the GE brushes 
are gray shinning metal looking type that are very hard.   The Warp brushes are 
softer. 

  When the second set of GE brushes ware down to 3/4 length, I will make a new 
set by pairing it up with the 3/4 length in the first set. So they should last 
me at least another 10 years. 

  Roland 










   
  

  Sponsored Link

  Online or Campus degree Associate's, Bachelor's, or Master's
  in less than one year.www.findtherightschool.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From what I was told it will air next Thursday morning, November 30  
on the Fox Morning news.


Stacey, the reporter, said the interview is going to be part of a  
story Fox is doing on the Electric Drive Transportation Conference at  
the DC Convention Center which will be next week from November 28 to  
the 30.


Tesla will be at the conference and President Bush will be giving a  
speech there. I heard that today but not sure if its official or not.  
Other guest speakers include the Presidents of Toyota and Edison  
International. Sponsors and Partners include Plug-In Partners, EV  
World, Southern California Edison, Honda, Toyota, SMUD, etc. So this  
is going to be a pretty big EV Conference.


EVA/DC was asked to help out with the Ride and Drive on Tuesday  
morning which is cool. All the major automakers plan to have their  
hydrogen fuel cell cars and plug-in hybrids available for test rides.  
I imagine some other EVs, like the Tesla, will be rolled out as well  
and available for test rides.


http://www.electricdrive.org/conference2006/

I'm really interested in how they are going to incorporate my run-in- 
the-mill conversion with these high-tech EVs. They could cut me  
completely out.


But Stacey and her cameraman were pretty impressed with the  
conversion and how fast I got the car to go (60 mph in a 45 mph zone)  
and they couldn't stop talking about how I could squeal the tires  
when we took off so I think I made a good impression. The producer  
emailed today and said that Stacey mentioned the interview "went  
exceptionally well."


Chip Gribben
Electric Vehicle Association of Washington DC (EVA/DC)
http://www.evadc.org

National Electric Drag Racing Association
http://www.nedra.com


On Nov 21, 2006, at 8:20 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:


From: GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: November 20, 2006 9:50:28 PM EST
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Fox Interview part of EDTA Conference


When will it air and where?

On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 1:46 pm, Chip Gribben wrote:
Just had a great interview with Stacey Cohan who is the Fox News   
reporter. Stacey used to work at Channel 9.


Apparently,

EV digest 6157

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6157

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Fox Interview part of EDTA Conference
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Battery questions
by "R Patterson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Battery questions
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) RE: Need help with some acceleration calculations I did
by Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) RE: EV Austin
by "Obrien, Haskell W." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Large Saft NMH 12/6v/Avaialable 
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Bluegrass and Alt-cars Wed in Beserkeley
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Battery questions
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Large Saft NMH 12/6v/Avaialable
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: Large Saft NMH 12/6v/Avaialable
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Battery questions
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: New Thunder-Sky Lithium Ion Battery 30Ah - 800Ah
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Parallel Nimh is Here NOW- Misinformation?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Fox Interview part of EDTA Conference
by Craig Burton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: EV Austin
by nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Parallel Nimh is Here NOW
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Fox Interview part of EDTA Conference
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: Battery questions
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---

- Original Message - 
From: "Geopilot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 3:32 AM
Subject: Re: Fox Interview part of EDTA Conference


> I'll try to tivo it.
>
> sounds like you will make the cut.
> Seems like they would want some homebrew conversions as well as the
Teslas.
>
>
> Chip Gribben wrote:
> >  From what I was told it will air next Thursday morning, November 30 on
> > the Fox Morning news.
> >
> > Stacey, the reporter, said the interview is going to be part of a story
> > Fox is doing on the Electric Drive Transportation Conference at the DC
> > Convention Center which will be next week from November 28 to the 30.
> >
> > Tesla will be at the conference and President Bush will be giving a
> > speech there. I heard that today but not sure if its official or not.

Hi EVerybody;

Thanks for the heads up, will put FOX on that AM see if it comes
through?Wouldn't it be nice if the Tesla Folks gave The Prez a ride?Could
his escort entourage keep up? Cool! I hope there will be a lotta vid cameras
around?Wanna hear the Preze's speech AFTER a 0 to 60 dash in the Tesla!

Seeya?

Bob
> > Other guest speakers include the Presidents of Toyota and Edison
> > International. Sponsors and Partners include Plug-In Partners, EV World,
> > Southern California Edison, Honda, Toyota, SMUD, etc. So this is going
> > to be a pretty big EV Conference.
> >
> > EVA/DC was asked to help out with the Ride and Drive on Tuesday morning
> > which is cool. All the major automakers plan to have their hydrogen fuel
> > cell cars and plug-in hybrids available for test rides. I imagine some
> > other EVs, like the Tesla, will be rolled out as well and available for
> > test rides.
> >
> > http://www.electricdrive.org/conference2006/
> >
> > I'm really interested in how they are going to incorporate my
> > run-in-the-mill conversion with these high-tech EVs. They could cut me
> > completely out.
> >
> > But Stacey and her cameraman were pretty impressed with the conversion
> > and how fast I got the car to go (60 mph in a 45 mph zone) and they
> > couldn't stop talking about how I could squeal the tires when we took
> > off so I think I made a good impression. The producer emailed today and
> > said that Stacey mentioned the interview "went exceptionally well."
> >
> > Chip Gribben
> > Electric Vehicle Association of Washington DC (EVA/DC)
> > http://www.evadc.org
> >
> > National Electric Drag Racing Association
> > http://www.nedra.com
> >
> >
> > On Nov 21, 2006, at 8:20 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
> >
> >> From: GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> Date: November 20, 2006 9:50:28 PM EST
> >> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> >> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> Subject: Re: Fox Interview part of EDTA Conference
> >>
> >>
> >> When will it air and 

EV digest 6159

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6159

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Alternator hacks, WAS: Parallel Nimh is Here NOW- Misinformation?
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) RE: Newbie question about batteries
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) RE: Newbie question about batteries
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) RE: Alternator hacks, WAS: Parallel Nimh is Here NOW- Misinformation?
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Newbie question about batteries
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) RE: Newbie question about batteries
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) motor pilot bearing worn
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  8) Re: motor pilot bearing worn
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) RE: EV Austin
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) RE: Newbie question about batteries
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: motor pilot bearing worn
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Some IMPORTANT clarification about Prestolites
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: [EV] David problem with email
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Newbie question about batteries
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Parallel Nimh is Here NOW- Misinformation?
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: [EV] Re: [EV] David problem with email
by Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: David problem with email
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: EV Austin
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: motor pilot bearing worn
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: Newbie question about batteries
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Newbie question about batteries
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I think what fixitSan was proposing was not energising the armature in order to 
allow the alternator to freewheel. Can this be done? I would envision a relay 
which could be engaged in "regen mode" so the alternator would be energised and 
start generating.

In theory, theory and practice are equivalent. In practice...
storm

- Original Message 
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 3:32:46 PM
Subject: Re: Alternator hacks, WAS: Parallel Nimh is Here NOW- Misinformation?

Michaela wrote
> Would it really be a problem to built a regen unit that slides on
> to  the auxiliary shaft of an Advanced DC motor? Or a (small)
> motor/compressor combination to power an a/c? Or a DC-DC unit that
> imitates  the function of an ICE alternator and not only provides
> 30 A of 12 V but also charges the battery?

No; none of these are particularly difficult. All have been used in 
company's and individual's EVs.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> take some of this convertor output at 12volts and use it to energise
> the armature of an alternator.

Alternators are normally self-exciting. There is enough residual 
magnetism in them to start generating automatically just by spinning it. 
What little power it produces powers the field and regulator, which 
quickly stabilises at the desired voltage.

> Some car alternators can produce up to 110 volts once you remove the  
> regulator. Of course, current drops off too...

Actually, all of them generate a voltage proportional to rpm times field 
current. To get 110vdc, you just have to spin it at full speed and full 
field current simultaneously. The built-in regulator won't do this.

No, the current it can generate does not fall when you raise the 
voltage. If it can generate 60 amps at 12v, it can generate 60 amps at 110v.
-- 
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in--Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net




--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
GWMobile wrote: 

> Old books on electric vehicles from the 1910's show how easy it is.

I'll echo Dave here and suggest that interesting as those old books may
be, the proof will be in you personally building your own battery and
reporting back to the list on what it cost, how long it took, and how
its performance compares to that of a *modern* lead acid battery bought
off the shelf.  Let's make it easier on you: don't build a battery, just
build a single cell.

The plates are not just sheets of lead suspended in electrolyte; the
grids are doped with additives such as antimony to improve their life,
and they are coated with pastes (the actual active material; the lead
plate doesn't participate in the cell reaction): does your book describe
how to mix up your own paste, and even if it does, do you believe that
the paste formulation described in a turn-of-the-century book will
compare in perfomance with what manufacturers are using today?  Does
your book describe h

EV digest 6160

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6160

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Large Saft NMH 12/6v
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  2) Bradley GTE and WKTEC
by Bill & Nancy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: make your own batteries
by Jeremy Rutman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: make your own batteries
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Alternator Hacks
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  6) Re: Newbie question about batteries
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Newbie question about batteries
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Newbie question about batteries
by Cory Cross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Solectria battery box temperatures
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) RE: Newbie question about batteries
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Newbie question about batteries
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Don's 13 inch net gain 
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Newbie question about batteries
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Alternator Hacks
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Temperature Correction for State Of Charge Voltage?
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Happy Thanksgiving! was/is Re: 81 VW Rabbit Ev on ebay 
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) New website created
by "Don" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: Don's 13 inch net gain
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Newbie question about batteries
by "Tom Gocze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: Newbie question about batteries
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Temperature Correction for State Of Charge Voltage?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 11/22/2006 11:52:06 AM Pacific Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

NIMH  from ovonic is (was?) the STM5 killer (look at their impressive results
on  RAV4 EV) but...i doubt they will let this be available again until they
are  required to...
 
The RAV4 used the Panasonic NiMH battery 10 cell 12 volt. Also used in the  
Ford Ranger. The Ovonics NiMH battery was used in the EV1 and the S-10. It was  
11 cells and 13.2 volts.
 
Panasonic made some improvements to NiMH battery over Ovonics. It did not  
produce as much heat and could get by being cooled with ambient air. The EV1 
and 
 S-10 used a heat pump for air-conditioning the battery pack when  needed. 
 
Don



So we are stuck with lead acid and nicad for few years  more...until lithium
give better calendar life...
though A123 cells are  claimed to have 10 years usable life which, for the
price, seems more  acceptable than max 3-5 years from competitors  (li-ion,
lipo)

cordialement,
Philippe

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am getting closer to getting the GTE on the road, still lots to do 
though. Yeaterday I jacked the back end up and hooked my jumper cables 
from the evw to the controller and ran it for a few seconds.
The GE motor sounded good, (Thanks Jim!) just a little squeal from the 
curtis  controller, won't be long till I can drive it.
 Today we received our copies of WKTEC and just watched it. Great 
movie, didn't get to see it until now as it wasn't shown in this area.

Bill
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you really want to fool around with making your own energy 
storage, why not go for supercaps
instead.  The list already mentioned some company that increased 
voltage enough for battery-competitive

energy density.


> Old books on electric vehicles from the 1910's show how easy it is.
...
There are enough aspects of building an EV that require home fabrication
without looking for others ;^).


--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If I'm not mistaken, these work well for capturing regen power, but don't do
well for long time storage of power. A couple sources have used them for
this method, but I haven't heard of any source using them as a batt
replacement. Perhaps due to cost???
- Original Message - 
From: "Jeremy Rutman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: make your own batteries


> If you really want to fool around with making your own energy
> storage, why not go for supercaps
> instead.  The list already mentioned some company that increased
> voltage enough for battery-competitive
> energy density.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
i was surprised to read the document about alternator hacks which confirms  
the presence of the two windings, field and armature, and that in order to get  
power generation the armature is energised. Via the slip-rings the armature 
than  becomes a permanent magnet of adjustable strength spinning inside a field 
coil  adn therefore it produces an AC output.
I've changed enough alternators I should've known that before ! but there  
you go.
 
Quote>
From: "Myles Twete" <[EMAI

EV digest 6163

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

 have the clutch disk in the 
center . as you get closer to centering you can release the disk and let it 
center its self , do this often as you getting things closer to center. I 
show how to do this in detail on the how to video at www.grassrootsev.com

Steve Clunn
- Original Message - 
From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 7:52 PM
Subject: Re: motor pilot bearing worn



I'd say normal wear and tear, or that there is a
slight angle or offset between the adapter plate and
motor shaft.  Even a few thousandths I've been told
can make a difference. That's all I can think of...

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


I picked up my motor today.
for $460 got commutator cut and polished, enamel
spray, pilot bearing
replaced, brushes and springs broken in and
installed

So, I hope to remember how it all went back
together.

My question,

WHY would the pilot bearing wear down?  The motor
repair guy didn't know
how the EV motor functions, so perhaps one of you
know what I did?
Chevy S10 into manual transmission.
I don't idle the motor.
the worst I can think I do to it are 2 things.
1. start in 2nd gear; and use full acceleration
frequently
2.  when I coast to a stop, I will down shift from
3rd to 2nd, and as I let
up the clutch, the motor rev's to a stop

thank you, Ben





Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic?  My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
  
__/__|__\ __
 =D---/-  - \
'O'-'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering 
wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?





Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com


--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Taken from this page: 
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/4429/cl3.htm#picture1

Is this basically how you clutchless shift?

How to shift with no clutch pedal
   Shifting with the clutchless design is slower than with a clutch. These are 
the steps involved:
 

   Release the accelerator pedal 
   Shift into neutral 
   Push the gearshift lightly toward the gear you want  
   Wait for the synchromech in the gear box to either speed up or slow down the 
motor until it matches speeds and drops into gear 
   You may now step on the accelerator pedal again 
  I usually drive in 2nd and third and do not do much shifting. A shift usually 
takes 1-3 seconds. It is odd not having a clutch pedal at first, but it is easy 
to get used to. I do not miss it.


So basically the synchromech takes care of everything? Could you use this 
method with a gas engine?

   - Tony
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for posting this Peter. It is a great deal but the buyer should note 
that the batteries are "take outs". they are not new. They state that the 
products are "like new". Still a great deal for a small EV project such as a 
scooter. The power equivalent would be about that of a 350 watt scooter so 
don't be expecting to be going up steep hills.


Roderick Wilde
EV Parts, Inc.
www.evparts.com

- Original Message - 
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: " Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2006 8:59 AM
Subject: EV conversion kit for under $60



Hi Folks,

SInce we have a few newbies I thought I'd post this.  I always reccomend
that when experimenting with EVs you start small.  It's a lot cheaper that
way and the learnign process is almost the same.

Anyway, I came across this auction on ebay for a complete set for a
scooter/E-bike; batteries, charger, motor, controller, #25 sprocket and
chain.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160054757472

There are only 10 of them, so if you're interested, you better hurry.

P.S. MECI, aka Mendelson's, is a great surplus place to visit if you're
ever in Dayton Ohio.  Imagine a warehouse that's three stories tall and
just about fills a city block.
Actually I think it's four stories, but one floor is off limits to
customers, or it was last time I was there.

--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message.  By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.








* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED---*
* This post contains a forbidden message format   *
*  (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTM

EV digest 6164

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

a fine touch on the gearshift to feel the tips of
the gears coming up to synchrony.

Perversely, it's easiest with a monster diesel under
the hood. As you let up on the foot feed you can
slide it out of gear, then continue easing up until
it just slips right in the next gear up. The procedure
is different for downshifting -- you have to match
the engine speed by adding fuel to speed it up.

Air and electric shifters on drag racers work with
no clutch (beyond getting going the first time).
When you hit the shift button it kills the ignition
for just a blink, which unloads the tranny. Then
the solenoid or actuator fires and shoots the
tranny into the next gear up.

Seems like the far lower rotating mass of an
electric motor would make this a breeze.

Chuck Hays
Kamloops, BC

_
Download now! Visit http://www.telusmobility.com/msnxbox/ to enter and see 
how cool it is to get Messenger with you on your cell phone.  
http://www.telusmobility.com/msnxbox/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

Just in case that link goes dead, the relevant part of that article is
at the end:

= = start quote = =

I do know that GM is planning a tightly closed backroom discussion on
its upcoming series hybrid for next month; nothing that is to be said
in that room can be repeated or reported. And, while I wonder who is
going to be attending that meeting under those conditions, this
information leads me to believe that GM is on the verge of doing
something really, really big.

Cross Your Fingers

Personally, I hope these rumors are true. This product would make GM
more responsible for balancing our foreign policy than all the
politicians in Washington. And if this became a standard for the
nation, just 2 million of them selling out of the 16 million cars
Americans buy each year, it would cut our gasoline use by 1.35 billion
gallons of gas in the very first year � meaning we would need 194,664
fewer barrels of oil each and every day. That�s enough to start
offsetting the (currently lacking) new oil production needed
worldwide; and obviously, GM could offer this series hybrid in Europe
and China, causing similar declines in their crude oil demand.

My biggest fear is that GM is hinting about something it won�t be able
to deliver for years, if at all. GM has, it must be noted, made
promises in the past, including its hype on hydrogen fuel-celled
vehicles, that were little more than pipedreams.

It is not hyperbole to say that GM�s entire future and reputation is
going to be wrapped up in this propulsion unit. Forget Washington,
forget ethanol, forget the Middle East and the long-range potential
for a U.S. war with China some day over oil resources: If this vehicle
truly is in the works, General Motors could finally and decisively
beat the Japanese at their own game � and make oil irrelevant to the
world�s security equation.

Still, the clock is ticking. Even if GM made the announcement at the
Detroit Auto Show in January, Honda and Toyota could kick into passing
gear and beat GM to the market; the world would still win, but GM�s
reputation would take its final tarnishing.

Forget praying for peace. If you want peace, pray for GM.

= = = end quote = = =

On 11/20/06, Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

This areticle was written up on the CalCars News group.  I think it is
too important to be left Un-Read by the EV community at large...

I urge you all to read it:

It can be found at:
http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/classifieds/automotive/16018943.htm
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle,  WA  98115-7230
Day:  206 850-8535
Eve:  206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org


--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Note that no throttle is included, you still need
to add that 5 kOhm potmeter and hook it up or
(as this aution states) use the supplied parts
as replacements for a failed eBike or scooter.

Or find a throttle from someone that replaced it,
I think I have a spare throttle that came with my
eBike in the garage. Not sure if the connectors
would match this controller - it looks as if it
has 5 connectors.
The first 3 are easy:
- motor
- throttle
- battery

The other 2 may include a safety switch
(stop if there is no pressure on the footrest,
because likely the person fell off the scooter)
and the charger input?
(My charger plugs straight into the battery,
so I am not sure if that would apply here too)
The only other thing I can think of is a
"State of Charge" display.

Note that the battery wires are snipped, so that
connector is also missing.

I think the largest challenge with this kit
(after finding and installing a matching wheel
sprocket) will be finding and installing the
right connectors, or to snip connectors off the 
controller and still connect all wires in the
right places.
It seems as the kit comes with a wiring diagram,
so if you are comfortable with that and doc

EV digest 6165

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6165

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: EV conversion kit for under $60
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Double of WEB addresses
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) RE: Contactor controllers are better!!
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Clutchless shifting
by "Osmo S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) RE: Don's 13 inch net gain
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Double of WEB addresses
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Going Clutchless - The Fat Lady Sings !
by "Jay Caplan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Going Clutchless - The Fat Lady Sings !
by "Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) RE: "Who Killed the Electric Car" at Safeway
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) The Downside of driving an EV
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Charging in 1910 (was: RE: [EV] David problem with email)
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) RE: Contactor controllers are better!!
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) RE: Clutchless shifting
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Temperature Correction for State Of Charge Voltage?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Motor selection for 2KW PV solar only drag race  = LONG
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: The Downside of driving an EV
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Clutchless shifting
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: Don's 13 inch net gain
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) New Direction for GM: "Think EV-2" ?!?
by "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Actually that controller uses a magnetic hall effect type of throttle. We 
sell them for $19.95, our item number PB5225.


Roderick Wilde
EV Parts, Inc.
www.evparts.com

- Original Message - 
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 11:07 AM
Subject: RE: EV conversion kit for under $60



Note that no throttle is included, you still need
to add that 5 kOhm potmeter and hook it up or
(as this aution states) use the supplied parts
as replacements for a failed eBike or scooter.

Or find a throttle from someone that replaced it,
I think I have a spare throttle that came with my
eBike in the garage. Not sure if the connectors
would match this controller - it looks as if it
has 5 connectors.
The first 3 are easy:
- motor
- throttle
- battery

The other 2 may include a safety switch
(stop if there is no pressure on the footrest,
because likely the person fell off the scooter)
and the charger input?
(My charger plugs straight into the battery,
so I am not sure if that would apply here too)
The only other thing I can think of is a
"State of Charge" display.

Note that the battery wires are snipped, so that
connector is also missing.

I think the largest challenge with this kit
(after finding and installing a matching wheel
sprocket) will be finding and installing the
right connectors, or to snip connectors off the
controller and still connect all wires in the
right places.
It seems as the kit comes with a wiring diagram,
so if you are comfortable with that and document
all wires where you removed connectors, then this
kit may be good for you.

(The above description not to scare anyone away,
but to give you an idea as to what you are getting
so to avoid disappointment AFTER the sale.)

Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_waterIM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel:   +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax:   +1 408 731 3675     eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks   eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further  http://www.proxim.com


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Peter VanDerWal
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2006 9:00 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: EV conversion kit for under $60


Hi Folks,

SInce we have a few newbies I thought I'd post this.  I always reccomend
that when experimenting with EVs you start small.  It's a lot cheaper that
way and the learnign process is almost the same.

Anyway, I came across this auction on ebay for a complete set for a
scooter/E-bike; batteries, charger, motor, controller, #25 sprocket and
chain.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160054757472

There are only 10 of them, so if you're interested, you better hurry.

P.S. MECI, aka Mendelson's, is a great surplus place to visit if you're
ever in Dayton Ohio.  I

EV digest 6166

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

assume it's for the same reason ICE have clutches, instead of just
a larger starter motor.

One of my cars sat during the winter & the clutch froze up. When you need
transportation, you make do... so, I know it is possible to use an ICE
clutchless.  Just sorta a PITA.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

At 01:12 PM 24/11/06 -0800, Jeff wrote:

The local police decided my ICE car parked in front of my house was
abandoned and towed it at 9:30PM on Thanksgiving! While I was in the
house. They want hundreds to give it back. Ironically, the plan for this
first day off of work in a long while, was to buy a tire for the thing
so I could go to Jury duty on monday.

I guess cops need xmas bonuses too. :-(


As long as it is in good (roadworthy) condition, registered and insured, 
and it was parked outside the house of the registered owner, you should be 
able to go to the police, find the most senior person there, explain the 
situation and say "Police officer so-and-so has effectively stolen my car 
from outside my house, and is decieving the department into holding it to 
ransom. If you get it back for me I won't have him charged with theft" or 
something to that effect.


Then negotiate back from that position to get your car back.

Of course, your local police may get a bit "antsy" about that tactic, and 
make life hell for you, so find out what the 'go' is before going in there 
like John Wayne


Regards

[Technik] James 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmm, I missed the throttle bit. No big deal, there are dozens of folks on
eBay selling Electric bike/scooter throttles.

FWIW MECI also sells front and back wheels (including sprocket and brake)
for e-scooters on eBay, item # 160054552601 .
Plus dozens of folks sell e-scooter/pocket bike/etc. #25 sprockets in
various sizes, some of them even include freewheels if you're interested.

The extra wires are usually connected to the brake lever, so it cuts off
power when braking, and the other is probably for a brake light.

> Note that no throttle is included, you still need
> to add that 5 kOhm potmeter and hook it up or
> (as this aution states) use the supplied parts
> as replacements for a failed eBike or scooter.
>
> Or find a throttle from someone that replaced it,
> I think I have a spare throttle that came with my
> eBike in the garage. Not sure if the connectors
> would match this controller - it looks as if it
> has 5 connectors.
> The first 3 are easy:
> - motor
> - throttle
> - battery
>
> The other 2 may include a safety switch
> (stop if there is no pressure on the footrest,
> because likely the person fell off the scooter)
> and the charger input?
> (My charger plugs straight into the battery,
> so I am not sure if that would apply here too)
> The only other thing I can think of is a
> "State of Charge" display.
>
> Note that the battery wires are snipped, so that
> connector is also missing.
>
> I think the largest challenge with this kit
> (after finding and installing a matching wheel
> sprocket) will be finding and installing the
> right connectors, or to snip connectors off the
> controller and still connect all wires in the
> right places.
> It seems as the kit comes with a wiring diagram,
> so if you are comfortable with that and document
> all wires where you removed connectors, then this
> kit may be good for you.
>
> (The above description not to scare anyone away,
> but to give you an idea as to what you are getting
> so to avoid disappointment AFTER the sale.)
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water    IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel:   +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax:   +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks   eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further  http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Peter VanDerWal
> Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2006 9:00 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: EV conversion kit for under $60
>
>
> Hi Folks,
>
> SInce we have a few newbies I thought I'd post this.  I always reccomend
> that when experimenting with EVs you start small.  It's a lot cheaper that
> way and the learnign process is almost the same.
>
> Anyway, I came across this auction on ebay for a complete set for a
> scooter/E-bike; batteries, charger, motor, controller, #25 sprocket and
> chain.
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160054757472
>
> There are only 10 of them, so if you're interested, you better hurry.
>
> P.S. MECI, aka Mendelson's, is a great surplus pla

EV digest 6167

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

ricey at 1339 USD, but they are available and seem to come 
>> from a good gene pool.
>>
>> We plan to accelerate at the start using about 12V and high current, 
>> then shift to a higher voltage to allow the RPM's to come up.
>> Connecting to the array directly at some point (and monitoring with a 
>> micro to keep the Vmp at 56V) will allow max power transfer to the 
>> motor.
>>
>> My question is, do we have the right motor, is there a better one, 
>> and if so is it in stock and available.
>> We don't want anything made of unobtaniuim (read: very expensive or 
>> not available)?? Also any drive ideas will be welcome of course!!
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks much (for reading this far!)
>>
>> Tim Economu
>> 2006 South Whidbey Solar car Drag Team [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
> wish with the message.  By posting the message you agree that your long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
>


-- 
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message.  By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

Yes!

Now there's a guy who thinks like a true EV home made hacker.

gotta get away from this "high tech" mode of thinking and back down to 
what can handle big amps for dirt cheap.




jerryd wrote:

   Hi Peter and All,

- Original Message Follows -
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: " Electric Vehicle Discussion List"

Subject: Contactor controllers
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 10:05:44 -0700 (MST)


Hey folks, I thought I'd interject something here.

Since contactor controllers are so simple most people think
they will be cheaper than Silicon controllers.

If you actually price the cost using new components, you'll
probably find out that contactor controllers are as
expensive, if not more so, than PWM controllers (contactors
aint cheap).


  Compared to E controllers they are very cost
effective. And you are likely to find them surplus or used
much more easily, cheaply than an E controller will be,
especially if you need higher amps like 800-1000 where CC
beat the pants off of e controllers.
  And you forget that to make a E controller work, you
need 1/2 an CC anyways!! So CC cost is not much more as with
just 2 more contactors, you could have a 3 speed emergency
controller.
  Now add to that advantage is the ability of most
anyone able to repair a CC in about 10 minutes with just a
few contacts or contactors instead of much money, time
waiting for a EC repair shop to get to it. 
  For my EV a 72vdc/450 amp controller costs about $600

with all it's other things to, compared to my new surplus
SW80 Curtis contactors at $13.95 each, gives me 600amps+ for
under $170 that's easily repairable, reliable, 6 speeds,
reverse and could work to 96vdc easily also.  If it wasn't a
business prototype, I'd put in a CC in a heartbeat.
  Or with some copper bar, springs, contacts, ect you
could build a manual CC from scratch for $25-100 in
materials for 144vdc and 1,000 amps for those who are really
handy. Can you do that with an EC Peter?
  A 36vdc fork lift CC set will work to 96vdc and put
out over 1,000 amps, enough for a reasonable EV, many times
very cheap used from a forklift shop. Make sure you can get
new contacts for them before you buy.
  But even buying new CC's are 1/2 the price retail of
an EC but much lower wholesale with much higher power
outputs on top of lower prices.
  95% of all successful E vehicles including
industurals, have used CC, maybe more so it's hard to see
some people's disdain for them other than controller/gadget
snobbery.
  While it takes a little adjustment of values to get it
smooth, they can be as smooth as a reg car without a
problem. 
  With the prices of contactors becoming really cheap,

50-75% off when bought in quanity, someone could make decent
money building CC's for EV's.  Or come up with a manual CC
design like the Milburn or Baker.
  So for all you out there, the CC is a very viable EV
controller, even better in several ways like cost,
repairability, for anyone wanting to build a good, cost
effective EV. 
   
  Jerry Dycus



Sure you can save money by scrounging around for
used/surplus contactors.  But if you are going to scrounge,
why not just scrounge for a used/surplus PWM controller? 
Chances are it is still going to be about the same cost as

used/surplus contactors.

A couple of the EV parts vendors 

EV digest 6168

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6168

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Rectactor Files
by "Tom Gocze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: The Downside of driving an EV, Comments
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: The Downside of driving an EV
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Newbie question about batteries
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Going Clutchless - The Fat Lady Sings !
by "Jay Caplan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Rectactor Files
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Newbie question about batteries
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Back to the Future
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: The Downside of driving an EV
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: Newbie question about batteries
by Cory Cross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Going Clutchless - The Fat Lady Sings !
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Producing EVs for Less 
by "Manu Sharma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Clutchless shifting
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Some Progress
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) RE: Motor selection for 2KW PV solar only drag race  = LONG
by "Offgrid Engineering" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Newbie question about batteries
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) RE: Charging in 1910
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Just posted some jpgs of rectactor/contactor controller info.
This is a little dated, but it shows the concept. Nothing new here for old 
timers, but enough 
people have asked me for them, so here they are.
You can jump up the voltages and incorporate a resistor inline for starting at 
slightly higher voltages.
It would be simple enough to do this with 24 or 30 volt steps.

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev/files/

Tom
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

- Original Message - 
From: "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 7:54 PM
Subject: RE: The Downside of driving an EV


> > It is really odd to tow a car without even trying to
> > contact the owner, the police should easily be able
> > to trace the owner's address from the licence plate
> > and unless you recently moved or registered it at a
> > business address, they should see it is the house that
> > it was parked in front of.

  Why didn't the Cops knock on your door?Ask about the car in
front.Sounds like you need a few of those " This Isn't an Abandoned Car
"Stickers!
>
> In Portland, a Ukranian couple came out of their condo to find a tow truck
> guy hitching up their mini-van from their own driveway.  When the tow guy
> wouldn't disconnect it, the husband got a knife and sliced the tow truck's
> tire.
   Hi EVerybody;

   Sounds like that god awful TV show? Repro Man? On Fox or something of
that ilk. You ride with the slimeball Repro man as they sneak into yards to
take vehicles that are not paid up to date for. Loan defaulted, that sort of
thing?I feel they go over the line,sneaking around at late night hours, and
surprised that they aren't the subject line of a doublebarreled shotgun!I
guess they wouldn't show THAT scene, too messy?
  But hooking somebody's car IN THEIR OWN driveway? What is this Nazi USA?I
think, if the car was legally registered, up to date tag, you have a good
lawsuit coming? Maybe enough in settlement for a set of batteries?
  I know the Gestapo petrols Springfield MA, looking for cars IN YARDS
without tags! They will tow after a registered letter from the city to DO
something,Like get a plate so they can tax you. Well this is Taxachussetts,
whatdoya expect? IN your garage you're cool, though.

 Cops & sheriff then showed up & presumed the guy with the knife was
> the bad guy and hauled him off...cops later said they don't take sides on
> issues of towing.  Wrong.  They always take the side of the tow truck guy.
> Sanctioned theft okay.  Knife to tire to defend against theft---not okay
  .Car Bomb definately out!

> The Ukranians moved out apparently.

 A reminder of life in the Old Country back in Iron Curtain daze?Too
close to home?

> Warning to all condo dwellersdon't park beyond your driveway
> cement...you could get towed.

> Yeah! Condos! They have their own idea of rules. Scary! A guy had to go to
court to fight displaying an AMERICAN flag!On his crappy building! I could
see if it were a North Korean or Iranian one? Hell, most Americans wouldn't
be able to tell what it was anyhow, or find the above places on a map?.You
give up alota rights buying into those things!

Hope ya can get a good settlement on getting your car back!?

   My two watts worth.

   Bob
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.14/548 - Release Date: 11/23/06
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As someone mentioned... different towns, dif

EV digest 6169

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

e deflection rate.  Jack the tire off the ground and air it up to 
the max psi for the load rating the side of the tire.  Now just lower it so 
it just touches the ground.  Measure from the ground to the wheel rim which 
will give you the side wall height.

Lets say the sidewall height reads 5 inches.  Now lower the entire weight of 
the vehicle on this tire and measure it again, and lets say its reads 4 
inches, this is 20 percent which is too much deflection.  So the wrong type 
of tires are use for this amount of weight.

Setting you toe in to as close to 0 inch as possible.  A alignment machine 
will be either 0.005 under or over.  So I settle for 0.005 over which the 
normal standard toe out is 0.125.  The faster you go, the tires will toe out 
more anyway.

Another thing is look at the gear ratios of the transmission and 
differential.  The higher the weight, the more overall ratio should be in 
the EV, which increases the torque.

The following is the recommended ratios for a weight of a vehicle:

This data is rounded off.

Weight  Ratio

 800027:1
 700024:1
 600020:1
 500017:1
 400014:1
 300010:1

I am running about 20:1 for my vehicle which keeps the battery ampere at 180 
amps at 60 mph in my GE 11 going through gears of 20:1 to 14:1 and then 6:1.

My GE motor advance is set at neutral for normal driving.

For my Warp 9 its maxs out at 14:1 at 45 mph at 6000 rpm with a 200 motor 
amp.

My watts per mile at normally city driving is about 540 wt/mi for my weight. 
I had a lot higher then that, because I had to stop 22 times going up hill.

When some mechanics re-grease the front wheel bearings, that like to use a 
impact wrench to get the cotter key holes line up.  The correct procedures 
is to torque them up to the right value which is listed for your car and 
than back off so the cotter key holes line up.  While the wheels are jack 
off the ground, you should be able to spin these wheels with out any drag.

This is easy to do, go to a auto parts store to pick up some front wheel 
grease, and maybe some new bearings.  I like to use the high temperature 
white grease for this. Get a new cotter keys to match.  Jack up the wheel, 
remove the cotter key, and nut.  The bear should pull out easily, clean it 
with solvent, install the grease, either by hand or you can get a small 
plastic tool to do this. Insert the bearings, turn on the nut my hand and 
tighten up by hand until it stops.  It feels just like a nut has run out of 
threads.  Back off to the next cotter key hole.

Rotate the wheel by hand, and if its too stiff, then either pull on the 
wheel outward, which loosens the bearings a bit. If its too tight, then 
loosen the wheel nut a little and pull on the wheel again until its spins 
freely, turn on the wheel nut to the next cotter key hole and try again.

Some times when new break pads are install, some mechanics do not adjust the 
clearances of the pads to the brake surface.  The clearance when you release 
the brakes should be a width of a paper.  To do this brake job, the brake 
lines are remove from the piston and air is use to push this piston back and 
forth using a cleaning solvent to remove built up residue in the piston. 
This sometimes make the pads too tight.  After the new brakes pads and maybe 
the disk is turn, check for this clearance.

After doing all of the above, I then check out how much torque it takes to 
move the vehicle while it sets on a level floor.

I take a inch lb torque wrench and put it on a adapter I made to fit the 
pilot shaft of the motor.  Put the transmission in neutral and see how much 
force it takes to rotate the motor.  Normally it should be less than 2 inch 
lbs.

Now check the torque in each gear ratio.  To give you a reference to what my 
torque reading for moving a 6890 lb EV in 1st gear with a overall ratio of 
19.495:1 is 8 inch lbs to start to move the EV.

Yes, this is inch lbs,  not foot lbs which I was question on this at one 
time.

Roland





- Original Message - 
From: "Jef

EV digest 6170

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

 front.
Say that rear is 1 inch wider than front, so add the
previous result:
1/2" + 1" = 1.5"
If you know the distance between front and rear wheels
you can calculate the angle of toe-in.
You want to get it as close as possible to zero, so unless
you want to calculate how large the correction needs to be
there is no calculation involved, more a trial-and-error.

How to correct toe-in?
Most modern cars are setup in the same way: steering
wheel moves a rod from right to left, each end of this
rod is connected via flexible couplings to the wheel.
The place they connect to the wheel is off-axis on a
little arm. This makes the left/right movement result in
turning the wheel right/left.
The rods towards the wheels have thread on them, they
consist of a hollow tube with inside thread and a solid
thread. They are locked in place with a nut to avoid they
turn while driving, changing the lenght of this rod, 
which affects the angle of one wheel.
My car had this rod and arm behind the front axle, so
my toe-in was caused by a too long rod to the wheels.
I loosened the nut and turned the rod 1x around to make
it shorter (thread disappearing into the thread).
You can check that it is getting shorter by finding that
you need to loosen the nut a whole turn before you can
shorten the rod a whole turn, then it will run against
the nut again. Block the rod with the nut again and
check the alignment again.
I needed several tries to get the toe-in to zero, which
did improve my mileage.

Make sure you tighten the nut on the steering rod after
you are done adjusting!

Success,

Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_waterIM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel:   +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax:   +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks   eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further  http://www.proxim.com


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jeff Shanab
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 6:47 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: How do decrease Wh/mile


I am in desperate need of improving my range and I think the problem
could be solved with decreasing the wh per mile as it tends to get
around 420 wh/mile

Here is the list of things I think can cause poor performance

Dragging brakes   
  They seem ok. When I jack up the back it is obviously harder to
turn than the front having to turn the rear end.

Bad alignment  
  It needs alignment,  Just can't afford it and it may need bushings
before I can proceed.  Only 1 shop in town will touch this car because
of the independent rear and the complicated 4 wheel alignment necessary.
Comical.

Series Motor timing too advanced for vehicle weight.
It appears to lug and not come into the sweet spot until about 3000
rpm. On the rare day where I hit every light green on my commute, it
takes 2.1kwh for the 6 miles or the 350wh/mile . When I catch every
light it takes 2.7 for 450 wh/mile My Comm is dark brown with some
streaking looks like blotch film + dark patina on
http://www.morgancarbon.com/technicalsupport/patina.htm

tight wheel bearings
The front wheels spin if jacked up but the rear ones turn but won't
spin, too much rear end drag.

low tire pressure.
   I keep all 4 at 50 psi (they are rated for 44) The vehicle weights
4050Lbs.

Air drag
   1987 300zx, a sports car, shouldn't be too bad.

On the other side of the equation :
Cold batteries
  Wow, I have really felt this recently

Not fully charged
  My emeter never resets, I never see the blue light on the charger, I
am not sure if I am chargeing these agms properly.
 Every charge the green LEDs get to flashing and it becomes a push. I
fear the reduced current caused by the regs is to low to overcome the
internal resistance of the remaining batteries and it is just lost.

So in an AGM string with regs on it, is the battery charged when the
green LED is flashing or is it at 80%, still in need of some charge? Is
there an "equalize"



Have I forgotten anything?
What, in your opinion, could be the worst offender?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

I can understand the goal, really poor efficiency is OK if cheap enough.

I'd suggest if you want homemade car power that you not use electricity, 
consider a wind-up spring.  How much range you can get from one that 
isn't a massive safety issue I don't know, haven't done any calculations 
on it, but I'd check into that first before thinking about making 
batteries.  And btw, you can use old car batteries that are cheap, they 
just won't last very long, but if cheap enough perhaps replacing them 
every few months isn't unreasonable.

Jack

Geopilot wrote:
The goal is not to meet the form factor of current batteries or their 
weight to power ratio.


The real key is can you get enough juice to r

EV digest 6171

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

EV Digest 6171

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) RE: Motor selection for 2KW PV solar only drag race  = LONG
by "Offgrid Engineering" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Duralast batteries?
by "Brandon Kruger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) RE: How do decrease Wh/mile
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Duralast batteries?
by Tony Hwang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: New website created
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Duralast batteries?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Duralast batteries?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) RE: Who killed the Electric Car in Ohio
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Duralast batteries?
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Need isolation transformer
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: New website created
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Need isolation transformer
by Steven Ciciora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Need isolation transformer
by "Arthur W. Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: New website created
by "Don Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: New website created
by "Don Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: New website created
by "Don Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Who killed the Electric Car in Ohio
by "Don Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: Who killed the Electric Car in Ohio
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) RE: Charging speed
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Wierd and Wonderful cars WAS Newbie question about batteries
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Need isolation transformer
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: Wierd and Wonderful cars WAS Newbie question about batteries
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lee:
Sorry I did not give a very complete reply earlier. I'll try to be more
thorough now that I have time. I'll use your numbers:

1. I totally agree array direct as soon and as long as possible will be the
best course. The car must peak power trace the array, and "peak efficiency
track" the motor  to have max acceleration. And yes it is well understood
the panels peak power and continuous power, unlike batteries, is the same
thing.
2. Yep Vmp = 56V and 35.7 amps
3,4. The CVT is a solution that can keep the motor at the same RPM, and it
is a possible solution here. We have modeled the CVT using a number of
different pulley sizes and shapes. While we will continue to work on this,
we are a bit dubious that it will be reliable, efficient, give high
repeatability, have an operation curve close to what we need, be able to be
built by high school students. WE are interested if anyone has built a
simple efficient CVT, and we won't give up developing ours, thanks for the
ideas!

I was assuming a buck pwm would be the better choice, and my calculations
given earlier assume that to be the case, but this may turn out not to be
true. The motor needs to accerate to full rpm in the very beginning, and
would you like to use max array current of about 36 amps or maybe 150 amps,
given the same drive ratio? Now one could use a combination of say DC-DC
converter making 12V at 150 amps to get RPMS up and then switch to a CVT,
and we are looking at that too. But I do believe in KISS.

If a CVT were, used, I agree that the pmdc motor would be the better choice,
for the high efficiency, but if a pwm controller is used, using the
controller as the transmission, maybe the series motor is not such a bad
choice. Once I get the curves (have an email to ADC) I can put them in the
model to compare to AGNI.

Thanks again...

Tim


-Original Message-
From: Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 1:29 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Motor selection for 2KW PV solar only drag race = LONG

Offgrid Engineering wrote:
> I think PMDC is a good choice, but a series motor might be good too

Your solar dragster is a special-case problem, because your PV panels are
the only source of power, and they are a constant power device.
Loading them heavier or lighter than optimum produces less power, which
means you accellerate slower (and lose the race).

So, you want your motor/controller/transmission to load the panels at
(about) their peak power point throughout the race, as the car accellerates
from 0 to maximum speed.

Here's how I was approaching the problem:

1. The most efficient controller is NONE. A DC motor, connected
   directly to the PV panels. The throttle is just an "on/off" switch.

2. The peak power point occurs at a particular voltage and curent.

3. So, the motor will run at a constant voltage and current. That
   implies constant rpm and torque, regardless of vehicle speed.

4. And that implies a CVT (continuously variable transmission).

5. Do some calculations using your PV